April 11, 2024

#16 Staying Alive on the Edge — Risk, Awareness, and What Struggle Teaches

#16 Staying Alive on the Edge — Risk, Awareness, and What Struggle Teaches

⛰️"It's the struggle on those 3,000 feet that matters, the journey IS the climb."🧗‍♀️ Hans Florine has a lifelong love affair with Yosemite's El Capitan, setting and breaking speed records on its iconic face, having climbed it almost 200 times. We talked about his climbing philosophy, staying safe on big walls, and what makes an ideal climbing partner. Hans opened up about why he loves partnering with new people up El Cap and his passion for making climbing more accessible to everyone....

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Season 1

⛰️"It's the struggle on those 3,000 feet that matters, the journey IS the climb."🧗‍♀️

Hans Florine has a lifelong love affair with Yosemite's El Capitan, setting and breaking speed records on its iconic face, having climbed it almost 200 times. We talked about his climbing philosophy, staying safe on big walls, and what makes an ideal climbing partner.  Hans opened up about why he loves partnering with new people up El Cap and his passion for making climbing more accessible to everyone. 🧗‍♂️🧗‍♀️

We’ve great giveaways from Coros, Physivantage, and Hans Florine himself. Tune into the podcast for deets! 🎙️

  1. ⛰️Power of visualization
  2. 🧗 Do Hard Things (DHT) and TNT…what the heck??
  3. 🤝 Hans’ tips for lifelong safety on the walls 
  4. 🤪 Hans’ favorite and worst climbing partners LOL
  5. 🥶Cryotherapy for Outdoor Athletes

References:



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WEBVTT

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Folks welcome back to the ageless athlete podcast.

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This is your host Kush Khandelwal.

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And in today's pod, we visit Yosemite national park with none other than Mr.

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El Capitan.

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Hand flooring himself.

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Hans has repeatedly set and broken.

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One of the most coveted speed records in the world, the nose of El Capitan.

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The most.

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Storied big vol in the world.

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Eight different times.

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In 2012 hands alongside climbing partner, Alex.

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Honnold.

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To good record again in two hours and 23 minutes lowering the previous record by a full 30 minutes.

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Hence also holds numerous other speed records in Yosemite national park.

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And all over the globe.

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Hence also won the first international speed climbing championships in 91.

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And has held the us national title 11 times.

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He won gold at the ESPN X games three years in a row.

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Hans is a pleasure to chat with knowledgeable articulate.

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Get humble and funny in a way only the most successful and grateful amongst us can be.

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Hence shared stories previously untold.

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Including advice on staying healthy.

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Taking on hard challenges, willfully.

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And his reflections on aging gracefully.

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And stay tuned until the end, as we have some exciting giveaways to announce from handsome self.

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As well as the sponsors.

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Coro smartwatches and fizzy vantage nutrition.

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Products.

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Monday Morning, April 1 today but today is not an April fool's day joke.

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We really do have Hans Florine, Mr.

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El Capitan on the show.

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Excited to dive into different topics with Hans.

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Hans is obviously known for.

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Climbing a lifetime in Yosemite.

00:03:15.194 --> 00:03:19.214
Hans, let me begin by just asking you this.

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Is climbing on El Capitan and the nose is a still as captivating to you.

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As the first time you.

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laid your eyes on it.

00:03:28.903 --> 00:03:29.223
Oh yeah.

00:03:29.223 --> 00:03:31.492
I mean, captivating is a great word to use.

00:03:31.641 --> 00:04:08.695
I mean, there's thousands of words to use for El Cap and none of them will really capture unless you're standing there at the base and maybe you have to climb it too, but, I'm up to 177 ascents of the nose, so I'm not the nose, sorry, of El Cap, I've done 26 different routes on El Cap, 117 times on the nose, the others are all the other smattering of roots, I'll point out often, uh, when I'm go around speaking, whether it's a bank or construction company or, you know, REI or, uh, climbing gym, like where, where is Yosemite and why is Yosemite this Mecca where it draws people from around the world?

00:04:08.695 --> 00:04:11.846
And I point out that, you know, 3000 feet is.

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An amazing giant chunk of granite and it's, you know, a mile and a half wide rocks that tall and that big do exist in other places in the world.

00:04:22.120 --> 00:04:28.844
if you go to Baffin Island, you're talking about a float plane or a sailboat or something to get to the base, right?

00:04:29.108 --> 00:04:36.829
If you're talking about, Kazakhstan, you're talking about, a three day trek with Yaks, or if you're daring enough, get into a Russian helicopter, right?

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To get to the base.

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Yosemite.

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you have a 15 minute walk from your car door to the base of the 3000 foot cliff, which is just this combination of wild terrain and crazy easy accessibility, right?

00:04:52.089 --> 00:04:56.519
That those are the two things combined that make El Capitan amazing.

00:04:56.834 --> 00:05:01.045
Huge, gigantic, wild, and it's really accessible, right?

00:05:01.154 --> 00:05:07.358
I named more things there than I wanted to, but just basically, fantastic, big, really accessible.

00:05:08.002 --> 00:05:09.492
It is absolutely.

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a marvel of nature that, there's this beautiful valley that people can drive right into and set their eyes on El Capitan.

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a short walk, if they decide to do that, or if they take their binoculars out, they can actually, actually maybe even with the naked eyes, they can spot people on the climb.

00:05:31.939 --> 00:05:41.949
And, uh, I think that is one huge reason, like you said, like just the approach for all kinds of people, climbers and non climbers alike.

00:05:42.398 --> 00:05:51.578
Yes, I've climbed a bit in Yosemite, but then also taking people out there for the first time and having their faces, uh, light up.

00:05:51.694 --> 00:05:52.954
that is such a pleasing sight.

00:05:53.391 --> 00:05:57.221
talking, of taking people, new people to Yosemite.

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You have taken all kinds of people over the years and taking them up the nose.

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You have taken beginners.

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You have taken adaptive climbers.

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I can only imagine how much work that must be.

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What compels you to put in so much hard work to share this climb with others?

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I think that any guide, or someone who introduces something, an activity to people that are new to it, whether it's, like surfing, you take people out surfing and they're just so psyched and, you know, maybe amazed by your skill, it's really helpful.

00:06:33.670 --> 00:06:53.626
They're just so big, bright eyed, this natural free ride that the waves give them, or it could be kayaking, or it could be rappelling a guide knows this, that, like you're getting to relive how crazy, you know, obsessed you were with climbing those first months and years that you climbed and how, cool it is.

00:06:53.908 --> 00:06:58.109
I mean, for climbers, it's the physical movement.

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You're problem solving with the tip of your fingers to the tip of your toes and using your head.

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And it's also.

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You know, outdoor climbing takes you to places that are amazing.

00:07:07.019 --> 00:07:07.338
Right.

00:07:07.692 --> 00:07:09.540
that's, that's why I say those two different things.

00:07:09.540 --> 00:07:15.879
You know, there's a physical experience of you're using every muscle in your body, a beginner, when they come down, they've been holding on for dear life.

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Right.

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And for that, whatever they can hold on for two to seven minutes to get to the top of a 20 foot wall in a climbing gym, they were thinking about.

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One thing, that wall, how can I get up?

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How can I not maybe die?

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They're so scared and they come down and every muscle in their body is tight.

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And it's kind of this physical meditation, right?

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So that's this one part is the physical.

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And the other is just Taking control of your scene as part of the nature thing.

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Like I want to climb that rock over there, that.

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Mountain or that terrain and I'm going to find a way to get up it.

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So there's this not so much puff your chest out of conquering things.

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I mean, we all know the famous quote from Warren Harding, you know, El Cap look a lot better than me.

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Um, all this to say that, you know, you're getting to venture out into these incredible places and experience incredible places.

00:08:04.425 --> 00:08:12.122
So not pairing up with the same old experience partner on El Cap means I get to see and be part of this.

00:08:12.423 --> 00:08:15.793
Amazing first time with people on El Cap.

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I mean, when you get to the top of the cliff after being on it two days, three days or a long day, and being on it, it's, you see it in people's face and you're reliving it yourself.

00:08:25.127 --> 00:08:26.492
You get all that same energy.

00:08:26.858 --> 00:08:32.597
I experienced the same kind of pleasure when I take people climbing.

00:08:32.597 --> 00:08:48.485
I haven't taken anybody up El Cap but I've taken some new people up some multi pitch routes, single pitch routes and to see their, their reticence and their nervousness and their fear slowly transform into joy.

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and delight.

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That gives me, just so.

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much pleasure.

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It makes me think that whatever I'm doing, has some worth.

00:08:56.737 --> 00:09:05.827
So I just love asking this question and particularly asking you because this is not just a multi pitch climb or a single pitch climb.

00:09:05.837 --> 00:09:10.538
This is taking somebody up, maybe the most iconic rock climb.

00:09:11.072 --> 00:09:16.452
And, uh, yeah, thanks for, uh, introducing this climb to, to so many people.

00:09:16.923 --> 00:09:27.203
Could you just summarize Hans, if you can, because we have listeners to the show who are not all avid rock climbers that obsess over, El Capitan.

00:09:27.514 --> 00:09:31.107
Could you just summarize if it's possible, what does it entail?

00:09:31.689 --> 00:09:37.579
a normal ascent versus some of the ascents you do when you're climbing the nose Really quickly

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you know, if people get to check out pictures and stuff, I'm going to just hold up the book, but we'll put pictures on the post for Instagram and stuff.

00:09:45.504 --> 00:09:50.663
you know, let's for that person that's out there in the world, listen, doesn't, they don't, they're starting at zero.

00:09:52.024 --> 00:09:54.653
Yosemite, El Capitan is in Yosemite.

00:09:54.653 --> 00:10:00.604
Yosemite is in California and Yosemite is about a four hour drive from San Francisco.

00:10:00.964 --> 00:10:08.193
Um, If the listener doesn't know where San Francisco, you can, of course, Google, you can Google El Capitan, of course, but there's the verbal description, right?

00:10:08.193 --> 00:10:15.844
We're in Yosemite Park, which is in California, which is four hours from San Francisco, which is in the United States, the Western Seaboard.

00:10:16.308 --> 00:10:24.509
this wall was first ascended by Warren Harding, um, Wayne Mary and George Whitmore in 1958.

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They spent 33 days, spread out over 18 months, rigging lines on it and got two thirds of the way up.

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And they did a final push of 12 days.

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They were lived eight slept on the wall for 12 days and they made it to the top.

00:10:38.928 --> 00:10:41.259
It's 3000 feet tall.

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And so if you look at the tallest building in New York, it's twice as high as the tallest building in New York.

00:10:48.568 --> 00:10:56.125
Um, the Dubai tower, which is the tallest building in the world, also known as the Burj Khalif, is 2, 550 feet.

00:10:56.125 --> 00:11:01.725
So El Cap is 500 feet taller than or about 500 feet taller than the Bird Khalif.

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Since 1958, people have climbed it in over multiple days.

00:11:06.811 --> 00:11:09.890
The first time it was climbed in a single day was 1975.

00:11:10.400 --> 00:11:16.321
And they coined that as Nose in a Day or NIAD is a big abbreviation a lot of people use.

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This season, 2024, the average party.

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We'll take not two days or three days or four days.

00:11:26.796 --> 00:11:28.745
The average party will fail to climb it.

00:11:28.826 --> 00:11:39.326
That's what's something pretty amazing about is that half the parties or third, the parties that go to the base and try to climb it will back off because it was too hard for them.

00:11:39.326 --> 00:11:41.286
So that makes the average infinite, right?

00:11:41.975 --> 00:11:47.395
But those that succeed still, the average is probably two or three days, three days to climb the route.

00:11:48.385 --> 00:11:48.855
And.

00:11:49.760 --> 00:11:56.740
Nose in a day is commonly done by exceptionally experienced Yosemite climbers.

00:11:56.741 --> 00:11:57.211
Nice,

00:11:57.623 --> 00:11:58.052
Amazing.

00:11:58.052 --> 00:13:01.242
Thank you for Indulging us with that Description that book of yours on the nose.

00:13:01.242 --> 00:13:01.633
Hans,.

00:13:01.653 --> 00:13:12.046
I'll confess It had been sitting on my bookshelf And then our, uh, recording just got scheduled on the last minute and I scrambled to dust it off and start reading it.

00:13:12.625 --> 00:13:24.237
And I have heard you speak and I have seen videos and it's been, present or omnipresent all through my 20 year long climbing career.

00:13:24.787 --> 00:13:27.547
But I started reading it and I was captivated.

00:13:27.807 --> 00:13:28.346
The.

00:13:28.914 --> 00:13:36.874
your story of, of starting of your first trip there and of your first attempt there and the writing as well.

00:13:36.943 --> 00:13:42.834
It, it really is gripping storytelling, whether you are a climber or you're not a climber.

00:13:43.144 --> 00:13:45.384
I think it's a, it's a wonderful book.

00:13:45.824 --> 00:13:50.213
And, uh, I'm 45 percent through as what Kindle tells me.

00:13:50.394 --> 00:13:56.693
And I know that we will finish recording And uh, tonight I'll get back to that book so I can get back to the rest of the story

00:13:57.140 --> 00:14:03.269
And for, hey, your listeners, it's on Audible and iTunes, and you can also download it straight from my house, my uh, my website.

00:14:03.380 --> 00:14:03.599
Yeah.

00:14:04.281 --> 00:14:15.377
and, uh, even more exciting please stay on till the end because we have, uh, some fun giveaways and one of them is going to be a signed copy of the book by Hans himself.

00:14:15.397 --> 00:14:17.282
So, so stay tuned in.

00:14:17.972 --> 00:14:33.663
So moving on, Hans,, one other question that I, I was thinking about when I was reading this book is in the climbing community, we will sometimes go and do these climbing trips with people we have just met.

00:14:34.242 --> 00:14:35.163
I have done that.

00:14:35.182 --> 00:14:35.762
I've looked.

00:14:35.998 --> 00:14:37.488
Found people on mountain project.

00:14:37.518 --> 00:14:46.907
I found people at campsites and have tied in and, uh, and gone on and have had a beautiful adventure to non climbers.

00:14:46.968 --> 00:14:54.347
That sounds, seems kind of ludicrous that we would trust our life, quote unquote, with somebody we don't know very well.

00:14:55.038 --> 00:15:01.468
And I was reading how, I think it was, I forget who, but you have done that on the nose as well.

00:15:01.882 --> 00:15:04.392
you have gone and climbed this.

00:15:04.987 --> 00:15:09.727
3000 foot wall with somebody you may not have known well.

00:15:10.096 --> 00:15:10.947
I want to ask you this.

00:15:10.957 --> 00:15:26.017
So how do you or how do climbers end up trusting somebody they don't know they might have just met and do something like climb 3000 feet of vertical rock

00:15:28.506 --> 00:15:36.900
you know, anyone can, Watch somebody belay someone else at the gym and go, okay, I see they're safe, um, or see that they're not safe.

00:15:37.289 --> 00:15:40.960
And then you could approach them and ask if they want to go outside climbing with you.

00:15:41.390 --> 00:15:44.870
So there's always, you know, interview and test physically.

00:15:45.438 --> 00:15:49.208
I think of it as like, you know, Warren Buffett, he's famous.

00:15:49.778 --> 00:15:50.407
Investor.

00:15:50.407 --> 00:15:57.557
He can probably look at a few key things about a business and investment and tell you, you know, and know whether he's going to invest in it or not.

00:15:57.938 --> 00:16:05.317
I think as we climb, you've been climbing 20 years, you can assess by just the way people talk and, maybe you wouldn't even have to watch them climb.

00:16:05.317 --> 00:16:10.248
You'd know from things they say that, you know, safety is important to them.

00:16:11.008 --> 00:16:14.327
I mean, by the mere fact that somebody's climbed 10 years, that's good.

00:16:14.557 --> 00:16:16.938
And they're standing in front of you, not in a wheelchair.

00:16:17.178 --> 00:16:18.168
That's probably.

00:16:18.668 --> 00:16:24.798
Number one, but did they climb once in the last 10 years or every weekend for 10 years?

00:16:24.798 --> 00:16:29.258
You know, there's all these little things, but I think I'm kind of like Warren Buffett.

00:16:29.258 --> 00:16:36.238
Now I've been climbing 40 years and probably within a short amount of time, I can assess somebody's skill level.

00:16:36.238 --> 00:16:43.208
And, you know, I probably wouldn't say no to climbing with somebody that I thought was I'm not going to say unsafe.

00:16:43.208 --> 00:16:49.384
I'm going to say their experience with climbing is maybe they don't pay enough attention to how serious it is.

00:16:49.404 --> 00:16:56.295
Cause somebody who is unsafe right now doesn't mean that I couldn't make them safe when they're climbing with me.

00:16:56.616 --> 00:16:57.800
safety is super important, right?

00:16:57.800 --> 00:17:00.553
And, I've seen stories of people who just don't get it.

00:17:00.563 --> 00:17:03.563
Maybe their attention span, maybe their attitude, whatever.

00:17:03.712 --> 00:17:07.229
And may climb with them never or once and that's it.

00:17:07.634 --> 00:17:14.825
all you people that I haven't called back for the second time climbing, it's because I love climbing with different people, not because you're unsafe or you weren't fun to climb with.

00:17:16.374 --> 00:17:39.618
yeah, I, I can't, you know, I can't, I don't know what advice to give people that are searching on Mountain Project or, um, Facebook or whatever groups online, um, It's been proposed, you know, by the American Alpine Club to have a AAC universal belay card that you've been tested to the same standard as everyone else in the, well, the country could be the world if we did it right, but, um, and it's frustrating for gym owners, right?

00:17:39.618 --> 00:17:49.249
Like, and people going to a new gym, it's like the ski pass, you have a bunch of ski passes on your thing, you go to a climbing gym, you got 17 belay cards, you're like, look, you don't really need to test me, do you?

00:17:49.429 --> 00:17:50.778
I've got all these belay cards,

00:17:51.590 --> 00:17:53.040
universal belay card.

00:17:54.307 --> 00:17:55.616
I'm intrigued by the concept.

00:17:55.666 --> 00:18:12.567
I'm also a little bit scared of how it might be implemented if it ever, uh, sees light of day And talking of belay cards, one of my favorite things to notice is you go outside climbing to some remote part of the world and people pull out their harnesses from their bags.

00:18:13.067 --> 00:18:18.038
And right on their belay loop, they might have like a touchstone belay card on it or whatever gym they go to.

00:18:18.038 --> 00:18:20.392
And they're like, and then, you know, I will ask them, Hey, what's your name?

00:18:20.883 --> 00:18:28.929
Which Tustin gym you climb at and they, are so surprised that I'm like, you know, you never took your belay card off before you boarded the plane to come climb in Greece.

00:18:29.419 --> 00:18:30.568
So no surprise there.

00:18:30.909 --> 00:18:37.293
I try to be goofy and will wear mine most of the times at crags, just so that no one else feels uncomfortable.

00:18:37.293 --> 00:18:41.913
I don't know, but it's a great, it's kind of like a great conversation starter too, you know, like.

00:18:42.447 --> 00:18:50.356
What t shirt you wear, or, you know, if you're a Washington Redskins fan, or I don't know, something like that, having your belay card, I think we shouldn't give people a bad time.

00:18:50.673 --> 00:18:51.173
Absolutely.

00:18:51.601 --> 00:18:54.181
yeah, safety is such an important part of our sport.

00:18:54.404 --> 00:19:00.634
You have spent more time on vertical terrain than, In some ways, most people alive.

00:19:01.045 --> 00:19:10.475
What may be a couple of specific things Hans, that you have adopted into your, uh, climbing routine that have kept you safe?

00:19:10.485 --> 00:19:19.114
I know that you may have had a couple of, uh, little skirmishes while climbing For the most part, knock on wood, you've been a safe climber.

00:19:19.266 --> 00:19:26.856
Are there certain things that have kept you safer despite being able to climb really, really fast?

00:19:27.144 --> 00:19:34.264
I think of them is, um, the advantage of embracing many, many partners is you learn different ways.

00:19:34.403 --> 00:19:36.984
And I'm actually going to the AMGA.

00:19:37.259 --> 00:19:41.889
SBI, Which is a single pitch instructor course in May a month from now.

00:19:42.250 --> 00:19:52.901
and I know that there's certain little nuances of ways to do things that they might prefer, and they say specifically in their thing, there is more than one way to be safe.

00:19:53.326 --> 00:19:58.911
And I really appreciate reading that in their, intro manual is that there's more than one way to be safe.

00:19:59.211 --> 00:20:05.968
And if you learn by rote, at a climbing gym, you know, past the figure eight through this way, this way, and it comes out this way.

00:20:06.248 --> 00:20:10.610
I've seen people, you turn the figure eight upside down and they'll be like, Hey, that doesn't look right.

00:20:10.891 --> 00:20:12.801
Okay, let me flip it over for you.

00:20:12.801 --> 00:20:15.831
And they're like, Oh, I know they've never looked at it from the other side.

00:20:16.690 --> 00:20:19.170
simple things like that, you know, that's kind of.

00:20:19.480 --> 00:20:32.660
Not being fair to people, but I've seen, you know, the Europeans will wear the, they'll use a, um, a screw link or a quick link that you'd find at a hardware store here in a lot of their clipping into things with aid, aiders and stuff.

00:20:33.009 --> 00:20:39.090
And partly because I think it's cheaper, but it's a surefire locked steel ring.

00:20:39.430 --> 00:20:41.580
Um, and they may have some other reasons for doing it.

00:20:41.980 --> 00:21:15.092
But my point more is that when you learn these other ways that are safe, Then you aren't uncomfortable when you see something well new because you're like well I've seen this is safe three ways, and here's a fourth way I haven't seen before, but if you only know one way you'll be scared and you know being scared or Ignorant is an unsafe Attitude or feeling to have you need to constantly educate yourself on new ways to do things or new to you anyway They might not be new to the other people

00:21:15.407 --> 00:21:25.849
Yeah, one can learn all kinds of techniques, including safety practices, and usually they are kind of fused together.

00:21:25.849 --> 00:21:37.120
The way people climb safety or adherence to safety is is embedded in those routines and the more one climbs.

00:21:37.845 --> 00:21:57.065
with different people and approaches new partners with that spirit of learning and curiosity can help that person pick out those, those skills, which could help them with not only the climbing itself but also become a better, safer climber.

00:21:58.035 --> 00:22:06.904
And I think it takes a certain amount of experience to recognize that, you know, one can't just learn everything from one person and maybe one person does.

00:22:07.805 --> 00:22:12.111
ABC really well, but then XYZ may not as well.

00:22:12.381 --> 00:22:16.141
And, uh, pick and choose the best practices from the best people.

00:22:16.461 --> 00:22:35.860
And I think you have done that, you know, with some of your early partners slash mentors, you were able to learn and do, uh, You know, obviously, uh, some pretty trailblazing things talking of having many partners you've had, you know, you've had a diversity of partners over the years.

00:22:37.289 --> 00:22:38.100
Fun question.

00:22:38.610 --> 00:22:45.680
What might be two or three favorite qualities about that partner?

00:22:46.400 --> 00:22:47.070
And.

00:22:47.634 --> 00:22:52.195
two or three qualities that were not your favorite.

00:22:52.245 --> 00:22:54.805
And sorry, not just from one partner, but from different partners.

00:22:55.115 --> 00:22:58.935
Some things you loved about your climbing partner, some things you absolutely detested.

00:22:59.894 --> 00:23:14.810
And I say that also with not just time on the rock, it could be time outside the rock because, because as people know, you know, when you sign up to climb with somebody, you are You're married to that person for the time of the climbing trip.

00:23:14.900 --> 00:23:18.340
So you share experience, observe all kinds of things.

00:23:18.340 --> 00:23:19.009
So yeah.

00:23:19.009 --> 00:23:19.440
Curious.

00:23:19.440 --> 00:23:25.393
What, what are some of those, things that you have, you have enjoyed or not enjoyed over the years

00:23:26.091 --> 00:23:34.407
well, let's, let's start with not enjoyed because I mean, if effectively I can say quite.

00:23:35.128 --> 00:23:43.408
solidly that if there's people that have qualities I don't enjoy, then I experienced it with them once And I don't climb with them again or don't adventure with them again.

00:23:44.135 --> 00:23:46.486
I don't try to change people too much.

00:23:46.486 --> 00:23:49.956
So, um, cause I don't like people lecturing to me either.

00:23:50.201 --> 00:24:00.688
something might be, this sounds very like philosophical, but somebody who's, interested in the summit or the end, and not so much, being present during the journey.

00:24:01.038 --> 00:24:05.688
Um, it sounds very philosophical, but I point out that Yosemite is a ditch.

00:24:06.248 --> 00:24:16.508
And when you quote, top out on El Cap or Half Dome, you're not on top of a peak, like, you know, some, uh, 2001 Space Audi on top of an obelisk.

00:24:16.648 --> 00:24:18.837
You've all, all you've done is crawled out of a ditch.

00:24:19.048 --> 00:24:20.968
You're not even at the highest point on the rim.

00:24:21.128 --> 00:24:23.188
You still have to hike another couple hundred feet to get to.

00:24:23.493 --> 00:24:24.743
Quote, the highest altitude point.

00:24:24.773 --> 00:24:25.533
Nobody does.

00:24:25.913 --> 00:24:35.613
Um, it's about that face of climbing the struggle for those 3000 feet, which that is a excellent representation of about the journey, not the end.

00:24:35.613 --> 00:24:36.023
Right?

00:24:36.478 --> 00:24:48.108
so people that go up with me for a half day or three quarter day and we get rained off and we're laughing as we're getting soaking wet and we're shivering, you know, that type person that is like, you.

00:24:48.498 --> 00:25:00.217
Instead of crying, they're laughing, you know, like we're going to have a good story to tell when we get back to the bar, if we get back to the bar tonight and have a hot chocolate or whatever, hot toddy, that's the type of person I like to go climbing with.

00:25:00.626 --> 00:25:13.757
And, you know, to that, although I have suffered, Often when I do public speaking for a bank, I always say bank or pharmaceutical or whatever, I have to explain I'm not the m word climber, which is mountaineer.

00:25:14.297 --> 00:25:16.007
I'm a t shirt and shorts climber.

00:25:16.677 --> 00:25:25.917
I've dabbled in quite a bit of mountaineering, but I really like being present there with shirt off or t shirt and shorts in the sun.

00:25:26.326 --> 00:25:55.183
Over, you know, shivering in a snow cave and then bragging to my buddy in the bar, like I've suffered more than you, I know you haven't, I suffered even worse, you know, there was a time I was stuck in this snow cave for seven days or something, you know, um, and I do think, I don't know, I, when someone says everyone should try it once, I don't know, maybe you shouldn't try mountaineering once, I've done it more than a couple of times and done type two or one, whatever fun suffering, and it's, it's interesting, but, um, yeah.

00:25:56.129 --> 00:26:02.439
95 percent of my climbing the last couple of decades has been t shirts and shorts, sort of sunny climbing weather.

00:26:02.783 --> 00:26:05.113
so there I did, I get to that question about partners.

00:26:05.353 --> 00:26:09.503
Partners need to be competent, which doesn't mean they need to climb hard.

00:26:09.833 --> 00:26:25.067
They just need to be competent at the skills of the adventure we're on, you know, and, and that goes from every grade to five, one to five, 14 need to be competent and then they need to be easygoing, easygoing, which means Outcome doesn't matter.

00:26:25.067 --> 00:26:33.788
We're, we're going to have fun applying the skills we have with us to this, you know, this terrain, whatever it is in front of us.

00:26:34.424 --> 00:26:37.320
Mindset is indeed, uh, so important.

00:26:37.735 --> 00:26:40.305
maybe even Trump's climbing skill.

00:26:40.725 --> 00:26:51.845
Just, just being somebody who can fundamentally appreciate where they are and what they're doing and take things in a positive light, then they're not.

00:26:51.904 --> 00:26:55.525
Because end of the day, climbing is a recreational activity.

00:26:55.884 --> 00:27:00.174
And, uh, just the fact that we're able to climb is such a privilege.

00:27:00.406 --> 00:27:06.642
One thing I was reading in your book, Hans, and, uh, which struck a note was, I think it was.

00:27:07.112 --> 00:27:12.342
with Peter Croft or I forget who, I think it might've been him or maybe somebody else.

00:27:12.342 --> 00:27:56.020
But anyway, you were 25 and, uh, you were about midway up the nose and, uh, you were, I think, quite exhausted or, nervous for some reason, and you were not, ready to lead some pitch and you asked your partner to switch off with you and you reflected that you had that kind of self awareness at that age, which I was also impressed by when I was reading that because I know that my ego has sometimes kept me from acknowledging some of those constraints, fear, uh, fatigue, et cetera, when I'm climbing.

00:27:56.020 --> 00:27:57.161
And I've sometimes made.

00:27:57.946 --> 00:28:04.216
Decisions to continue climbing instead of stopping or switching leads because I was afraid to look bad.

00:28:04.605 --> 00:28:20.826
So I just want to say that that is one quality that I also love in a climbing partner, which is just acknowledgement of where they might be, because if they undertake something that they're not prepared for, it just puts the entire team in jeopardy.

00:28:21.432 --> 00:28:21.612
Yeah.

00:28:21.612 --> 00:28:30.991
And I'll say that at age 25 I was probably 15 years of experience as an athlete, although I had only been climbing six years then.

00:28:31.802 --> 00:28:40.422
So I knew how to inventory my physical body probably better than most climbers that had been only climbing five or six years.

00:28:40.726 --> 00:28:48.365
just because I, I've been a lifelong athlete since, you know, I started doing organized sports, I guess, at age whatever.

00:28:48.421 --> 00:28:49.750
7, 8, 9, 10.

00:28:50.295 --> 00:28:59.001
and I look back and like I did a lot of things that a normal 20, 20 something 30 something would do, you know, over their head.

00:28:59.012 --> 00:29:07.272
But, um, yeah, I, I commented on that very one because, you know, it's probably more the exception that I turned back and let someone else take the lead.

00:29:07.562 --> 00:29:15.192
And that's a figurative as well as literal thing is that let someone else take the lead that I'm impressed with my younger self that I did that.

00:29:15.532 --> 00:29:16.012
Super.

00:29:16.451 --> 00:29:18.941
This, maybe last question on this topic, Hans.

00:29:19.691 --> 00:29:30.141
Any, any two or three best practices to stay safe yet efficient on, on like big walls or even a short multi pitch or single pitch climb?

00:29:31.020 --> 00:29:33.284
I know, you know, we need to tie a good figure eight.

00:29:33.504 --> 00:29:36.014
So inspect your partner, tie a good knot.

00:29:36.224 --> 00:29:41.504
Any other things you, you have learned that you You may want to share with, with listeners.

00:29:41.794 --> 00:29:42.394
Yes.

00:29:42.453 --> 00:29:47.673
Um, this is, I think super important is no matter how experienced you are.

00:29:48.044 --> 00:29:52.844
Um, here's a classic introduction for the someone I've climbed with the first time.

00:29:53.874 --> 00:29:56.624
I'm like, Hey, I know I'm this celebrity climber.

00:29:56.624 --> 00:29:59.474
You've seen me on the cover of climbing magazines and in videos and all that.

00:29:59.474 --> 00:30:04.214
But like I fall sometimes and you can look at my crotch.

00:30:04.659 --> 00:30:12.288
And check the knot check the belay thing and all that and I won't be insulted, um, cause I'm going to check yours and I don't want you to be insulted.

00:30:12.379 --> 00:30:13.419
I will check yours.

00:30:13.419 --> 00:30:20.139
I don't want you to be insulted when I look at your crotch and I've just added a little bit of humor there because, Oh, why are you staring at my crotch?

00:30:20.419 --> 00:30:27.968
Um, and that humor, is glue that, that glues the idea, the concept in your head, like check people's crotch.

00:30:27.968 --> 00:30:29.097
A lot goes on there.

00:30:29.216 --> 00:30:36.365
The belt is doubled back, the belay device is correctly loaded on the rope and on your belay loop, and your knot's tied.

00:30:36.726 --> 00:30:41.796
Um, so, there is a lot going on right there, and being humble is another great word.

00:30:41.796 --> 00:30:46.135
I'm humble enough to let you stare at my crotch and to see if I am being safe.

00:30:46.135 --> 00:30:49.696
I'll never be insulted by you checking me for safety.

00:30:50.083 --> 00:30:54.452
I, you know, I may slip up, but I invite people when they arrive at a, say a multi pitch anchor.

00:30:54.452 --> 00:30:56.753
Hey, look here, this is the way I set it up.

00:30:56.753 --> 00:30:59.083
Is this feel okay for you You know,

00:30:59.516 --> 00:30:59.836
Thanks.

00:30:59.855 --> 00:31:00.395
Absolutely.

00:31:00.395 --> 00:31:00.596
Yes.

00:31:01.014 --> 00:31:23.662
One is never too famous or one should never feel too intimidated either in the company of somebody who's famous to ensure that, they are doing the right thing because we have had famous climbers in our midst who have made, you know, simple mistakes that either have been fatal or could have been fatal.

00:31:23.672 --> 00:31:26.330
A hundred percent agree with what you just said.

00:31:26.642 --> 00:31:32.188
One other thing I was, pondering, Hans, about speed climbing on the nose.

00:31:33.268 --> 00:31:44.862
We have had so many records that have been set and broken over the last, let's say, three, uh, three odd decades of, doing speed climbing.

00:31:45.211 --> 00:31:52.137
I haven't seen Many, or maybe any women, and I could be wrong because I haven't made it through to the end of your book yet.

00:31:52.307 --> 00:31:55.177
Have there been any women?

00:31:55.615 --> 00:32:03.957
And if there have or haven't been,what do o you think is stopping women from embracing, let's say, speed climbing?

00:32:04.626 --> 00:32:10.947
Given that the first person to free the nose was Lynn Hill, a woman.

00:32:11.027 --> 00:32:19.615
And there are many women I think who go and climb nose in a day and do, you know, slower, but still commendable ascents on El Cap.

00:32:20.076 --> 00:32:24.026
So, curious, uh, where are women with speed climbing on the nose?

00:32:24.177 --> 00:32:31.270
So, I mean, we all know that, you know, Lynn Hill beat, whatever, men, to free climbing the nose.

00:32:31.270 --> 00:32:34.625
So it's, the physicalness of it is not the challenge.

00:32:34.875 --> 00:32:38.186
And by the way, the, the season prior to Lynn.

00:32:38.435 --> 00:32:39.154
Freeing the nose.

00:32:39.154 --> 00:32:45.924
She climbed the nose with me and me and her set the speed record for female male ascent It's okay.

00:32:45.924 --> 00:32:53.625
I think whatever I'm okay with saying female male ascent and double female ascent and transgender ascent, whatever.

00:32:53.674 --> 00:33:01.490
Keep all these records It's great to give people recognition I think the female record is somewhere around five hours.

00:33:01.691 --> 00:33:05.361
So there is a lot of women climbing fast up there.

00:33:05.626 --> 00:33:12.376
and the male female record now is four and a half hours, um, set some 10 years ago, I think, or more.

00:33:12.885 --> 00:33:13.885
what else do I want to say?

00:33:13.926 --> 00:34:27.296
I've recently, this last season, I climbed the nose six times and I got passed and I climbed alongside of a number of women that are on the search and rescue crew at Yosar, Kate and Michelle, and, And they're, they just go out for like their day off and climb the nose in you know, 11, 12, 13 hours, like bada boom, no problem.

00:34:28.539 --> 00:34:30.869
and they're not trying to get a speed record.

00:34:30.869 --> 00:34:32.219
That's just casual for them.

00:34:32.219 --> 00:34:49.791
So I'm sure if they put their skills to it, Um, it would have a result, you know, more than just, you know, naming them as females or whatever you won't see anyone get the speed record on the, on any El Cap root that's under the age of 20, even though gymnastically.

00:34:50.806 --> 00:34:53.706
Kids 18, 19, 20 are winning world cups.

00:34:54.036 --> 00:34:58.836
They won't win the speed record on El Cap because they don't have a driver's license, right?

00:34:58.846 --> 00:35:08.755
Until they're 16 or 18 and women have had a more difficult time living in the outdoors, um, in remote areas.

00:35:09.371 --> 00:35:19.317
Uh, historically, and that's, you know, changing, you see just as many women doing van life as men almost now, and at crags, and so they're getting out there and being more and more comfortable.

00:35:19.317 --> 00:35:24.237
And that's what it takes is time in Yosemite and getting good at those skills.

00:35:24.237 --> 00:35:29.576
And they have that ability more so now than they did before, you know, Lynn was an anomaly.

00:35:29.576 --> 00:35:34.788
She could move around in the climbing world with, uh, More exceptionally than most men.

00:35:35.368 --> 00:35:42.759
and I mean move not only on the rock, but amongst the communities and the camping and the climbing world so that she could make the connections.

00:35:42.759 --> 00:35:49.150
It takes a huge support crew to, climb the nose free and she has the personality that could manifest that.

00:35:49.159 --> 00:35:52.110
So, That's being more and more the case now.

00:35:52.507 --> 00:35:55.907
I, yeah, I, watch later this season.

00:35:56.007 --> 00:35:59.438
I am hoping to do some things with women on El Cap.

00:35:59.498 --> 00:36:00.882
Um, um, yeah.

00:36:01.226 --> 00:36:01.626
Amazing.

00:36:01.626 --> 00:36:01.886
Yes.

00:36:02.299 --> 00:36:11.824
I, I shrug my shoulder and like I'm cowering a little bit because I am a white privileged male and I, I, I wanna everyone can have access to climbing.

00:36:11.875 --> 00:36:19.107
But I just paused because I'm a white privileged male and I, and why does it have to be, you know, I'm Why does it have to be him that's teaching us?

00:36:19.127 --> 00:36:21.387
And I'm like, well, I, I'm offering, you know, so

00:36:21.646 --> 00:36:24.306
White, privileged and blonde to boot.

00:36:24.376 --> 00:36:24.606
yeah.

00:36:26.656 --> 00:36:26.996
Sorry.

00:36:26.996 --> 00:36:27.646
Couldn't resist that.

00:36:27.956 --> 00:36:28.476
Absolutely.

00:36:28.786 --> 00:36:31.677
Thank you for, thank you for that answer.

00:36:31.686 --> 00:36:32.806
Really appreciate it.

00:36:32.906 --> 00:36:33.447
And.

00:36:34.086 --> 00:36:47.406
You have done so much to open the doors to climbers and just people of all abilities and levels to access the sport of climbing that we love so much.

00:36:47.416 --> 00:36:51.197
You have taken the time out, the resources out to do that.

00:36:51.856 --> 00:36:59.121
And, uh, yes, awaiting What's to unravel this year with, uh, what you're just talking about.

00:36:59.420 --> 00:37:00.601
Excited to see,

00:37:01.010 --> 00:37:07.092
I'm turning the big six zero for your ageless athlete podcast, people six zero and two and a half months here.

00:37:07.344 --> 00:37:09.193
I'll see if my body can hold up to do some.

00:37:09.453 --> 00:37:10.143
fun things.

00:37:10.588 --> 00:37:12.078
you are ageless.

00:37:12.528 --> 00:37:15.415
Hans happy early birthday to you.

00:37:15.457 --> 00:37:29.359
talking of, doing different things over the years, you started a family while you were still peaking, let's say as a climber, as an athlete, how did that change you?

00:37:30.184 --> 00:37:39.533
and did you think you made any sacrifices with your climbing to be a family person?

00:37:39.919 --> 00:37:41.209
Yeah, um, well, sacrifice.

00:37:41.559 --> 00:37:45.859
Yeah, I don't want to get into dictionary too deep, but sacrifice is an interesting word.

00:37:45.899 --> 00:37:47.209
I like trade better.

00:37:47.411 --> 00:37:52.891
you trade one thing for another because trade is like, you know, it's the beaver quilt isn't worth the loaf of bread.

00:37:52.891 --> 00:37:54.601
Then you go, okay, I want three loaves of bread.

00:37:54.611 --> 00:37:56.261
And now it's even, it's not a sacrifice.

00:37:56.261 --> 00:38:05.942
It's an even trade, you know, um, spending time with babies and toddlers and little kids and teenagers is crazy rewarding.

00:38:06.157 --> 00:38:09.387
it's harder than climbing the work, get in to get that.

00:38:09.387 --> 00:38:20.377
reward, but, it's a different reward than going out And, you know, running up a 514 at a sport clag or, climbing Mount Everest or climbing a long multi pitch route in Red Rocks.

00:38:20.697 --> 00:38:21.847
Um, it's different.

00:38:22.277 --> 00:38:23.637
Uh, it's not a sacrifice.

00:38:23.637 --> 00:38:24.457
It's just different.

00:38:24.907 --> 00:38:29.395
But I will say that the things or the climbing that I think.

00:38:29.755 --> 00:38:35.875
95 percent of what people know me for those things, those feats of climbing that I've done.

00:38:35.895 --> 00:38:38.576
I did after I was a parent.

00:38:39.170 --> 00:38:52.645
I believe that the reason is when you are obsessed and love something as much as climbing and you have all these other obligations like raising kids.

00:38:52.826 --> 00:39:01.725
Um, when you go climb, you plan much more and you go like, okay, I've got a hall pass from the family on, you know, Sunday.

00:39:01.725 --> 00:39:06.935
So let's see, I'll plan it and I'll get the right partner together and we'll go up, you know, Saturday night and we will launch.

00:39:06.935 --> 00:39:23.180
And I can't tell you how many of my friends, you know, Peter Coward, Greg Murphy, Jim Herson that are all working 50 hours a week in a white collar job in the Bay Area That's four hours from El Cap and kids and we would they would you know, we'd team up and like, okay We're leaving Friday at 6 p.

00:39:23.180 --> 00:39:23.370
m.

00:39:23.370 --> 00:39:43.889
We get into Yosemite at you know Midnight sleep for six hours and then climb all day Saturday Drink coffee and drive home Saturday night, mow the lawn, play with the kids Sunday, and then you'd have blood read bloodshot eyes Monday morning at work, you know, you did something really big and incredible because You planned all week.

00:39:43.889 --> 00:39:44.699
You thought about it.

00:39:44.699 --> 00:40:05.942
You imagined it You visualized it and you know, maybe you got into the climbing gym Tuesday and Wednesday night, you know during the week To keep yourself fit but and limber, but I think that is I've done all my biggest most notable things people know me for Since I became a parent because I focused the time I was climbing to do the big things that I wanted to.

00:40:06.232 --> 00:40:12.072
I think if I had just been a knucklehead bachelor roaming around in my van, I would have been, Oh yeah, I'm climbing today.

00:40:12.072 --> 00:40:12.972
I'm climbing tomorrow.

00:40:13.052 --> 00:40:13.822
I'm in the next day.

00:40:13.822 --> 00:40:14.692
I climbed last week.

00:40:14.772 --> 00:40:15.146
know.

00:40:15.146 --> 00:40:22.028
I don't know how much planning I might've done pull off bigger things.

00:40:22.706 --> 00:40:22.936
Yeah.

00:40:22.936 --> 00:40:23.696
Thank you for that.

00:40:23.736 --> 00:40:25.176
Uh, love the answer.

00:40:25.196 --> 00:40:39.352
And actually just to flip the question, do you think that having a career, having a family, having that all rounded aspect of your life has actually helped you perhaps?

00:40:39.696 --> 00:40:45.116
Succeed in a greater capacity with your climbing goals.

00:40:45.759 --> 00:40:46.539
Absolutely.

00:40:46.639 --> 00:40:46.959
Yeah.

00:40:47.309 --> 00:40:47.539
Yeah.

00:40:47.539 --> 00:41:09.062
I mean, I I, questioned like, Hey, I don't want to Be a guide or I don't know run a climbing gym because that would mean I'm Mixing my climbing with my sustenance meaning or my work people use the word work Your work is different than what you are or your work is different than your play climbing I love so much.

00:41:09.372 --> 00:41:13.902
I want I didn't want it to be Reliant on it for my income.

00:41:14.102 --> 00:41:21.559
So, and I've worn a lot of hats, um, accountant, project manager, health club, climbing gym manager.

00:41:21.559 --> 00:41:38.980
Finally, I did run a climbing gym from 2010 I was mature enough at that point that I, Really, really enjoyed the business part of, you know, cause running the climbing gym is more managing people than it is, you know, guiding people at climbing.

00:41:38.990 --> 00:41:39.330
So

00:41:39.928 --> 00:41:45.128
You have certainly reinvented yourself as a professional.

00:41:45.698 --> 00:41:53.290
you have done a few different things, maybe starting in a white collar profession to doing other things.

00:41:54.268 --> 00:41:55.528
Many professional climbers that.

00:41:55.528 --> 00:42:01.608
we know, like you said, you know, they are living out of vans and they're still doing extraordinary things.

00:42:01.966 --> 00:42:03.506
How have you found that.

00:42:04.047 --> 00:42:09.047
balance or what's allowed you to keep shifting into new thing?

00:42:09.096 --> 00:42:13.935
Is it, has it been just drive to keep learning new things?

00:42:14.395 --> 00:42:20.255
Is it been something else that's allowed you to manage your climbing and your family, better?

00:42:20.315 --> 00:42:24.175
What's, what's been sort of that catalyst to Hans.

00:42:24.805 --> 00:42:28.525
doing different things with, uh, your career.

00:42:28.754 --> 00:42:37.709
And actually I should, I should ask you last question there to add one on is what are you doing now when you're not climbing?

00:42:39.025 --> 00:42:39.765
not much.

00:42:40.965 --> 00:42:43.822
Um, actually I became a grandfather, four months ago.

00:42:43.822 --> 00:42:48.724
So, um, we've gone up and, you know, we're being supportive of, my daughter, Katie.

00:42:48.868 --> 00:42:53.009
she's got a little baby Arwin and, um, moved up to Arcata.

00:42:53.009 --> 00:42:57.958
So that's, um, we're there geographically to be supportive grandparents is one thing.

00:42:58.275 --> 00:42:58.672
of course.

00:42:59.253 --> 00:43:01.643
mom and pop want most of the baby time.

00:43:01.643 --> 00:43:03.703
So we get to do other stuff.

00:43:04.207 --> 00:43:04.627
okay.

00:43:04.707 --> 00:43:07.097
One of the things is the mindset of a beginner, right?

00:43:07.107 --> 00:43:11.312
Like, if you're a beginner, you're going to make mistakes cause you're trying something new.

00:43:11.372 --> 00:43:11.852
Right.

00:43:12.375 --> 00:43:20.804
you know, this is very philosophical, you know, professional speaker stuff, but like the people who are the most successful in the world, other people who have made the most failures, right.

00:43:20.804 --> 00:43:22.254
They're, they're not afraid to fail.

00:43:22.264 --> 00:43:22.694
Right.

00:43:23.023 --> 00:43:27.493
And like, I just went surfing for my first time at age 59 last month.

00:43:27.493 --> 00:43:33.403
We went down to Nicaragua and I failed to get up on the surfboard many times, but I did get up on it by the end of the week.

00:43:33.403 --> 00:43:34.263
And yeah, I did.

00:43:34.263 --> 00:43:34.573
All right.

00:43:34.573 --> 00:43:41.096
Cause just various skateboarding and snowboarding skills over the past long lifetime I've had.

00:43:41.593 --> 00:43:44.473
but yeah, I'm a five, a five, two surfer.

00:43:44.623 --> 00:43:48.073
Um, now after one week in Nicaragua, maybe five, one, I don't know.

00:43:49.109 --> 00:43:51.619
some surfers would say I'm not even fifth class, but yeah,

00:43:52.029 --> 00:43:54.919
I noticed, uh, your trip to Nicaragua, Hans.

00:43:55.664 --> 00:44:02.827
And, I think you had titled your, uh, post with something like, you know, trying something new or something on those lines.

00:44:02.847 --> 00:44:08.913
And it was so great to see that you were up for, jumping into a new sport for you.

00:44:09.336 --> 00:44:14.406
What is, uh, what is important about, uh, trying new things?

00:44:14.426 --> 00:44:28.681
Why is it important for you to be learning surfing, which, you know, is kind of intimidating for many people, just like climbing is, but, you know, Also for somebody who is a new grandfather.

00:44:29.822 --> 00:44:35.222
um, well, let me help everybody remember this with a acronym TNT, which is dynamite, right?

00:44:35.382 --> 00:44:36.752
Try new things.

00:44:36.762 --> 00:44:40.242
You've said it three times or four times already, but TNT dynamite.

00:44:40.442 --> 00:44:41.282
It's a real dynamite.

00:44:41.282 --> 00:44:43.472
It's good for your, for your life.

00:44:43.502 --> 00:44:44.392
Try new things.

00:44:44.782 --> 00:44:45.492
Um, and I'm.

00:44:46.212 --> 00:44:51.362
I'm going to, I'm going to plug here DHT, which is do hard things.

00:44:51.692 --> 00:44:59.102
Um, DHT challenge is the thing I came up with in 2010, which just, we made a list of things to do for the year.

00:44:59.102 --> 00:45:01.432
And at first it was like, Hey, let's do something hard.

00:45:01.432 --> 00:45:10.802
Like let's do five thirteens or let's do V nine or let's do a marathon or let's challenge people to go to five different gyms.

00:45:10.982 --> 00:45:11.602
Um, and then.

00:45:11.862 --> 00:45:18.122
Someone said, well, could we do something like serve three hours at a soup kitchen or a volunteer at, you know, hospice or something?

00:45:18.132 --> 00:45:20.562
I'm like, uh, that'd be hard.

00:45:20.842 --> 00:45:22.452
And they're like, yeah, it's do hard things, right?

00:45:22.452 --> 00:45:34.823
I'm like, okay, so he'd add things like that and we'd add things like Write a handwritten note and mail it to somebody because people don't do that anymore call three friends you haven't talked to in three months and just say hello.

00:45:34.823 --> 00:45:40.438
I appreciate you in my life, you know That actually may not sound hard to some people, but to others, it's like, Oh, okay.

00:45:40.438 --> 00:45:46.338
You know, and we made a list of things for people to do at the gym and people would come up to me like, that's so cool.

00:45:46.338 --> 00:45:47.658
I called a friend that I hadn't talked to.

00:45:47.658 --> 00:45:50.118
And I'm so glad you, you know, suggested that to me.

00:45:50.118 --> 00:45:51.638
And I'm like, well, I didn't suggest it to you.

00:45:51.638 --> 00:45:53.398
The community made up this list.

00:45:53.398 --> 00:46:01.765
It wasn't just me because I can come up things like I think are hard for me, 513 or whatever, and people will be like, well, sounds like.

00:46:01.922 --> 00:46:04.501
Serving three hours in a soup kitchen is harder for you Hans.

00:46:04.501 --> 00:46:05.261
I'm like, yeah, you're right.

00:46:05.301 --> 00:46:30.379
All right, that would be hard for me But I think yeah willing to go and look like a beginner and I not only looked but was a beginner at surfing is Mindset that's good to have and I get I'm thinking of the classic sort of, you know 27 year old person out in their van, trying to get that next grade, the 13 C or 14 B or whatever they're trying for.

00:46:30.379 --> 00:46:34.599
And, and that's their focus, just that, and that's what they're good at.

00:46:35.015 --> 00:46:39.855
it is wonderful to master something or become expert at and spend 10, 000 hours at it.

00:46:40.245 --> 00:46:46.425
At the same time, it's refreshing to go and try, you know, bow and arrow archery or something.

00:46:46.425 --> 00:46:48.435
And you're can't even hit the haystack.

00:46:48.474 --> 00:46:50.260
and it's great to see.

00:46:50.675 --> 00:46:55.248
Rapid, recruitment of skills in another thing.

00:46:55.248 --> 00:47:01.598
And I often find that that rounding out of your skills only is going to help your climbing.

00:47:02.568 --> 00:47:08.808
And I do go around and teach clinics, and this is a very important is, uh, the Karate Kid movies, they call it.

00:47:09.028 --> 00:47:13.538
Kung fu in the later versions of the karate kid movies is like everything is kung fu, right?

00:47:13.588 --> 00:47:17.808
Everything is karate hanging your jacket on the hook is kung fu.

00:47:17.808 --> 00:47:35.083
Well, I say everything is climbing, you know, i'm washing I'm washing the dishes I spread and do the splits on the ground because i'm so tall Otherwise i'm arching my back over to get my hands in the sink to clean the dishes So i'm spreading my feet and doing the splits and trying to stay flexible and stuff and yeah Washing the dishes is climbing, you know, whatever.

00:47:35.478 --> 00:47:39.159
So, trying new things, keeps you learning, I guess.

00:47:39.469 --> 00:47:40.989
You can always bring it back to climbing.

00:47:41.269 --> 00:47:42.209
I love that, Hans.

00:47:42.379 --> 00:47:43.399
I like that so much.

00:47:43.409 --> 00:47:49.809
Uh, try new things, TNT and DHT, do

00:47:49.864 --> 00:47:52.434
DH, yeah, DHTchallenge.

00:47:52.464 --> 00:47:52.814
com.

00:47:52.834 --> 00:47:53.294
Go there.

00:47:53.294 --> 00:47:53.974
It's free.

00:47:54.284 --> 00:47:57.954
Um, it's a fun community trying a bunch of wacky stuff from,

00:47:58.585 --> 00:48:02.098
That is a great inspirational nugget there.

00:48:02.477 --> 00:48:03.067
here we go.

00:48:03.067 --> 00:48:06.357
I'm holding the sticker up of the little, our little, goat.

00:48:06.387 --> 00:48:07.707
Our goat is our mascot.

00:48:08.160 --> 00:48:09.500
that's a, it's a great sticker.

00:48:09.500 --> 00:48:17.754
And, for people who are not watching this, uh, Hans has a great, Shirt as Well, Hans you can really, can you wear A Mr.

00:48:17.774 --> 00:48:19.484
El Cap shirt if you haven't climbed El Cap?

00:48:19.514 --> 00:48:21.424
Is that, Is that like not allowed?

00:48:21.804 --> 00:48:24.034
Well, gosh, it's killing me.

00:48:24.074 --> 00:48:26.944
I I'm trying, I hope I remember this kid's name.

00:48:26.984 --> 00:48:36.894
A young man was wearing this shirt and El Cap and he, he walked up to me and I pointed at him like, I kind of gave him an odd look because I'm kind of funny and he's like, I know I shouldn't be wearing this shirt, you should.

00:48:37.164 --> 00:48:39.105
I'm like, no, no, I mean, have you climbed El Cap?

00:48:39.125 --> 00:48:40.484
And he's like, oh, nothing like you.

00:48:40.484 --> 00:48:41.544
And I'm like, what do you mean?

00:48:41.544 --> 00:48:44.004
You know, whoever smiles the most is the best climber.

00:48:44.444 --> 00:48:45.375
Anyway, he, he.

00:48:45.569 --> 00:48:52.419
Came back a week later when we were there for actually a memorial on El Cap Meadow and he happened to know I was there and he went home laundered this shirt and then gave it to

00:48:52.444 --> 00:48:54.564
Oh, uh, that's so cool.

00:48:55.169 --> 00:48:56.859
Yeah, I've never seen this shirt anywhere.

00:48:56.909 --> 00:48:59.969
But, um, I guess they got it in the gift shop.

00:49:00.184 --> 00:49:00.504
it.

00:49:00.794 --> 00:49:09.523
it's it's great talking of El Cap And, talking of speed climbing, you were doing speed climbing on plastic.

00:49:09.593 --> 00:49:12.173
you were winning competitions, Hans.

00:49:12.783 --> 00:49:24.393
as a young athlete and you were climbing on El Cap and setting records on El Cap on the weekends and I was just thinking that is such a extraordinary combination.

00:49:25.483 --> 00:49:34.704
if you think of speed climbers today, I think they barely climb outside perhaps and they certainly don't climb big walls.

00:49:34.963 --> 00:49:41.983
What allowed you to transfer skills from L CAP over to speed climbing

00:49:42.429 --> 00:49:43.429
Yeah, over the weekend.

00:49:43.635 --> 00:49:44.125
versa?

00:49:44.125 --> 00:49:47.136
Yeah, it's just such a, curious to hear your reflection on that.

00:49:47.266 --> 00:49:49.699
I'm in the right place at the right time is one thing.

00:49:49.981 --> 00:49:59.101
there was a time in the 1800s where the same person could win the hundred meter dash and the marathon because the sport was young.

00:50:00.251 --> 00:50:04.142
That's basically my luck of the draw of being early on in the sport.

00:50:04.406 --> 00:50:05.746
Diane Russell.

00:50:06.226 --> 00:50:09.516
She's a woman climber who was competitive at the same time as me.

00:50:09.966 --> 00:50:14.936
She was the only other person to win speed climbing and difficulty at the same national event.

00:50:15.389 --> 00:50:18.292
and again, that goes back to, you know, whatever.

00:50:19.527 --> 00:50:25.597
somebody probably could win the 100, the 200, the 400 and the mile all at the same track meet because the sport was so young.

00:50:26.576 --> 00:50:35.195
um, there was a young lady actually in the last five years that won speed climbing and difficulty climbing and whoever you were, young lady, I think I gave you kudos online.

00:50:35.195 --> 00:50:39.195
It's amazing that much bigger, crazy achievement now than back then.

00:50:39.750 --> 00:50:41.039
It was in the right place at the right time.

00:50:41.039 --> 00:50:52.209
And yes, I actually set the speed record on the nose with Steve Schneider one weekend and the following weekend won the nationals championships at city rock jam in Berkeley.

00:50:52.459 --> 00:51:08.396
Um, not the best training, you know, for one for the other, but, that was the state of the sport then we surmised that, the final route that I sent at that thing was probably 13 B cause we, they left it up in the gym and we checked it and, you know, nowadays.

00:51:08.696 --> 00:51:13.536
13 B is like the qualifier before the semifinal or something you have to send.

00:51:13.930 --> 00:51:15.951
so it's, you know, just different time.

00:51:16.660 --> 00:51:18.140
that makes sense the way you explain it.

00:51:18.440 --> 00:51:21.740
Different time and, uh, the degree of specialization doesn't.

00:51:22.420 --> 00:51:25.350
Didn't exist back then as it does today.

00:51:26.210 --> 00:51:26.610
Curious.

00:51:26.610 --> 00:51:31.164
Do you follow competitive sports actually competitive climbing?

00:51:31.194 --> 00:51:40.686
And, Uh, because you used to compete in speed, wondering how you think about how remarkable that is.

00:51:41.006 --> 00:51:49.336
The athletes are today who are, I think, climbing the speed wall in a matter of, in a handful of seconds.

00:51:49.336 --> 00:52:00.029
Like, I wonder what goes through your mind when you see those people and they're flying up these, this wall And when you were saying those records, I think you were amazing for that time, but maybe a little bit slower.

00:52:00.565 --> 00:52:05.245
Uh, I know all the numbers, so it's easy for people to quantitatively compare us.

00:52:05.682 --> 00:52:12.552
the first, uh, the second X games, the wall was about 45 feet high or 40 feet high.

00:52:12.602 --> 00:52:17.452
Um, and the world cup is 12 meters, I believe, which would be more than that.

00:52:17.452 --> 00:52:19.062
Maybe 45 or 50 feet high.

00:52:19.532 --> 00:52:19.882
Anyway, it's.

00:52:20.173 --> 00:52:22.563
Five feet longer than the speed route we did back then.

00:52:22.563 --> 00:52:25.603
And they do it in five and a half or now five seconds flat.

00:52:25.963 --> 00:52:31.623
We did it in 17 and 18 seconds, first and second place back then.

00:52:31.623 --> 00:52:37.943
So it took us three times as long to get up a wall that, was just, you know, five or 10 feet shorter than what they're doing now.

00:52:38.375 --> 00:52:41.855
and you know, they changed the grade or the route every.

00:52:42.204 --> 00:52:44.954
Every competition back then, so it might have been a 5.

00:52:45.384 --> 00:52:46.984
9 one time and a 5.

00:52:47.254 --> 00:52:47.574
12.

00:52:47.777 --> 00:52:49.047
Vividly remember in France.

00:52:49.047 --> 00:52:49.687
They like okay.

00:52:49.947 --> 00:53:04.840
Let's let's make it so the difficulty climbers have a chance at speed Let's make it a 12b route And I think I took third there instead of first and some young Spanish climber sighting 513s at the time yeah, but it wasn't, particularly fast.

00:53:04.840 --> 00:53:07.840
You can imagine speed kind of, 512 B wouldn't be five seconds.

00:53:07.850 --> 00:53:10.261
It was more like, I don't know, 50 seconds or

00:53:10.697 --> 00:53:22.892
You specialize in speed climbing and you specialize in big walls, but you also have this, you rigorous approach to training hands from what I can see and you have been so quantified.

00:53:23.544 --> 00:53:29.544
and plan with the approach to keep keep improving upon your climbing on the nose.

00:53:30.015 --> 00:53:41.203
I'm curious as to how you didn't take that approach and your natural personality to something like sport climbing bouldering.

00:53:41.558 --> 00:53:45.968
to be honest, I'm not completely sure where you are with other kinds of climbing these days.

00:53:46.399 --> 00:53:54.369
with your talent, if you had, I don't know, if you ever focused on the difficulty end of the sport, you would excel as well.

00:53:54.399 --> 00:54:02.420
Is it, is it, the fact that you were not as inspired by sport climbing or is it paucity of time?

00:54:02.420 --> 00:54:16.820
Because for example, like some of the people that you have roped up with over the years, people like Eugene Hirayama, for instance, you know, he was also known for excelling with difficulty and, and single pitch climbing.

00:54:17.400 --> 00:54:24.656
what is it that has maybe kept you from, uh, also pushing the boundaries with, with sport climbing?

00:54:25.201 --> 00:54:25.480
wow.

00:54:25.480 --> 00:54:38.540
Yuji is a excellent person to call out, to, um, talk about here on this particular angle, because Yuji lives in Japan, mostly now, and there is no Yosemite there.

00:54:38.580 --> 00:54:44.140
There's no, I think they have a handful of multi pitch routes there, but they might be two or three pitches.

00:54:44.150 --> 00:54:54.336
He's so proximity wise, he lives in his raising a family operating businesses, near a place that doesn't have multi pitch long endurance climbing.

00:54:54.754 --> 00:54:58.678
it has single pitch and And bouldering problems.

00:54:58.718 --> 00:55:01.608
And he excels at those because that's what his home area is.

00:55:01.608 --> 00:55:05.798
And he loves climbing and he's got to have an outlet near where he lives.

00:55:06.318 --> 00:55:07.898
So I don't know.

00:55:07.908 --> 00:55:13.582
I, I just saw a thread, which is another app born from Instagram for you.

00:55:14.232 --> 00:55:15.902
Uh, older people like me.

00:55:15.913 --> 00:55:22.832
And I saw, Yugi said, you know, people see that I'm bouldering and sport climbing, but trad climbing is something that's always been historically great for me.

00:55:22.832 --> 00:55:24.532
And I hope people do go out and experience.

00:55:24.922 --> 00:55:26.022
experience, trad climbing.

00:55:26.032 --> 00:55:29.522
Cause there's really a lot to be enjoyed from it and this, that, and the other.

00:55:29.522 --> 00:55:34.948
And so I think his heart is there, but, um, he just loves the movement of climbing like I do.

00:55:34.948 --> 00:55:37.522
And, obviously he loves competition.

00:55:37.522 --> 00:55:45.702
Um, he just crushed in competitions all over the world as well I was a competitor before climbing and track and field and soccer and other things.

00:55:45.702 --> 00:55:48.062
And so that was a timing thing.

00:55:48.062 --> 00:55:51.012
Again, you ask, you know, how come I haven't been known?

00:55:51.022 --> 00:55:53.672
Well, I mean, I won two or three national.

00:55:54.004 --> 00:55:54.614
Comps.

00:55:54.681 --> 00:56:15.751
I did it purely, purely out of my ability to train and be competitive because you got to remember in 1990, 91, 92, up to 95 and beyond that those early days, a lot of the climbers, I remember Jeff Lowe trying to decide who would go to the 1980, 89 Snowbird and nationals.

00:56:15.751 --> 00:56:17.131
And he's like, well, send your resume.

00:56:17.141 --> 00:56:20.961
And, you know, like Jim Karn and these people like, well, I sent a 513B yet.

00:56:21.192 --> 00:56:21.841
Smith rocks.

00:56:22.151 --> 00:56:28.851
It was like this very, very subjective resume you could send in, you know, and I'm like, Oh, I climbed the nose once.

00:56:29.971 --> 00:56:35.911
I won a local competition in Los Angeles where there was 12 people in the comp.

00:56:35.911 --> 00:56:36.971
You know, so what does that mean?

00:56:36.971 --> 00:56:39.051
You know, maybe they're all five, six climbers.

00:56:39.051 --> 00:56:39.281
Yeah.

00:56:39.541 --> 00:56:41.311
So it was a bit silly.

00:56:41.471 --> 00:56:57.206
What I'm getting to is that there were climbers that were, There was a dozen climbers at a national competition that were better climbers than me, and I would place first, second or third because I knew the climbing competition was coming up.

00:56:57.206 --> 00:57:11.931
So I trained for plastic climbing competition, which was very hard to do in 1990 because there was only two gyms in the country, and I happened to be near City Rock, right, wherever there was one, by 91, there was like, you know, 10 climbing gyms, which is still not many, right?

00:57:11.931 --> 00:57:36.510
So, Nobody knew, including myself, how to train exactly for a climbing competition coming up, but I, it was so important to me that I not only climbed so hard that I didn't look like I was a good climber at the gym, but I knew, duh, you rest two or even three days before a comp and a lot of Climbers, you know, picture cut off blue jean shorts and they go climbing because they love nature and stuff.

00:57:37.170 --> 00:57:52.627
They probably climbed Friday before the comp on Saturday and I would beat them because simply I rested longer and I, I attacked the plastic in a way that was more, I was just more experienced at plastic nowadays that's no such thing, you know.

00:57:52.867 --> 00:57:54.288
Competitors at a climbing competition.

00:57:54.297 --> 00:57:56.837
They're all crazy experienced at plastic, right?

00:57:57.209 --> 00:58:07.678
we used to joke that you go to climbing competition and you see, you know, whatever, there's only 60, maybe a hundred, maybe only 60 different holds in the world or certainly in the U S.

00:58:07.858 --> 00:58:15.172
So you knew every hold on the route when you looked up it before you got to, you knew that they, um, but now you don't know holds.

00:58:15.172 --> 00:58:19.187
There's so many, there's, tens of thousands of different handholds, right?

00:58:19.533 --> 00:58:41.588
you know, you were training with an intensity and you were somehow able to balance your career and family and weekend warrioring at the nose with this certain things hands that you adopted with your training, which had you excel with climbing on the nose because you were not living in.

00:58:42.658 --> 00:58:47.208
Yosemite Meadows, you know, as a full time climber, you were training at the gym.

00:58:47.268 --> 00:58:51.951
And I'm just curious, like how, what kind of training were you doing back then?

00:58:52.885 --> 00:58:56.755
And also, what kind of training are you doing today?

00:58:56.755 --> 00:59:00.651
Because you still have El Cap ascents on the horizon.

00:59:00.911 --> 00:59:13.881
One last thing I will throw in there, you know, many years ago I remember, uh, I think I met you at, uh, one of the Touchstone Climbing Comps or something and, uh, this could be totally apocryphal, but I heard somebody say that, oh Yeah.

00:59:13.881 --> 00:59:20.141
Hans, you know, he will only allow himself to watch television if he's also doing sit ups.

00:59:20.141 --> 00:59:20.221
Thanks.

00:59:20.817 --> 00:59:22.106
As watching television.

00:59:22.106 --> 00:59:24.476
So is that, is that true?

00:59:25.844 --> 00:59:27.134
Not entirely.

00:59:27.134 --> 00:59:27.494
No.

00:59:27.534 --> 00:59:29.564
Um, I, I, I kick back sometimes.

00:59:30.274 --> 00:59:30.855
That's funny.

00:59:30.855 --> 00:59:33.184
We added a challenge to our list.

00:59:33.184 --> 00:59:35.774
We have this list every year that comes out and changes every year.

00:59:36.355 --> 00:59:49.614
This year it was watch a 12 series episode on next flicks or whatever, Amazon, or, and, um, do whatever, 240 reps of an exercise of your choice during the episodes.

00:59:49.614 --> 00:59:51.144
Cause it's year 2024.

00:59:51.439 --> 00:59:52.929
yeah, we had that challenge.

00:59:53.359 --> 01:00:01.959
Um, but no, I don't, uh, do exercises all the time when I watch movies, but it is a good way to pass the time while you're watching a movie.

01:00:02.609 --> 01:00:08.599
And to that point, like how, how do you train when you have all these other things going, there's always somebody.

01:00:09.209 --> 01:00:10.659
training harder than you.

01:00:10.699 --> 01:00:11.529
That's truth.

01:00:11.529 --> 01:00:13.029
And there's always someone in a crate, more crazy.

01:00:14.154 --> 01:00:20.064
I think of triathletes, like, what a, what a crazy choice as a parent.

01:00:20.194 --> 01:00:29.794
I mean, you gotta train your cycling, you gotta train your swimming, you gotta train your running, and the hours that you gotta spend on a bike to be fit on a bike is just nuts.

01:00:30.184 --> 01:00:34.289
I mean, you hear of a parent, Getting up at, you know, 3 a.

01:00:34.289 --> 01:00:34.609
m.

01:00:34.879 --> 01:00:37.199
And going swimming for two hours or whatever.

01:00:37.419 --> 01:00:38.709
And then they get on their bike for twice.

01:00:38.719 --> 01:00:41.989
Then they, they take the kids to school and then they go to work for eight hours.

01:00:41.989 --> 01:00:48.159
And then the evening they come back and do a run and you're like, okay, that's way more than I would train for climbing, you know?

01:00:48.159 --> 01:00:50.429
So why would they do that?

01:00:50.897 --> 01:00:52.288
do they have the energy to do that?

01:00:52.621 --> 01:00:56.881
when I was training for the nose record with UG, I was working.

01:00:57.891 --> 01:01:02.451
30 hours, maybe 40 hours, sometimes a week at an architect engineering firm.

01:01:02.701 --> 01:01:04.041
And I would get up at four.

01:01:04.501 --> 01:01:07.091
Luckily there was a gym in Oakland, great Western power company.

01:01:07.091 --> 01:01:10.411
I would go in and I would train for three hours, five to eight.

01:01:10.431 --> 01:01:13.201
And then I'd take a shower and I'd head to work.

01:01:13.261 --> 01:01:18.981
And I'd found like, Oh, you know, exercise is way better than coffee for make waking you up and keeping you psyched.

01:01:19.757 --> 01:01:23.457
and I'd get home and I'd have dinner with the wife and kids and then.

01:01:24.552 --> 01:01:28.732
Put them to bed and I'd probably go to sleep fairly early, eight 30, nine o'clock.

01:01:29.442 --> 01:01:33.212
And I wouldn't repeat because the next day I'd need a rest after that.

01:01:33.312 --> 01:01:39.756
But I, you know, I only trained twice a week for, doing the nose record, but I do like three, four hours in the morning, really, really hard.

01:01:40.036 --> 01:01:47.266
And the reason I was, able to motivate or inspire myself to do that was I just saw the smile on Eugene's face.

01:01:47.606 --> 01:01:59.055
And I saw the, in my head, I envisioned, you know, the excitement I would feel in the butterflies at being at the base of El Cap and looking up there and, know, visualizing those 31 pitches.

01:01:59.686 --> 01:02:10.067
anybody that has been obsessed with something knows that you will change, you The regular course of human activity to pursue that obsession.

01:02:10.286 --> 01:02:10.636
So,

01:02:10.918 --> 01:02:22.588
five to 8:00 AM in the morning before, uh, before going to work and, uh, making sure to, uh, get your, uh, good night's rest by going to bed at eight 30 or nine.

01:02:23.798 --> 01:02:31.398
And uh, I think the only way for me to be able to put in that kind of focus is when I have a goal.

01:02:31.833 --> 01:02:36.134
in front of me, otherwise it's hard to, to motivate.

01:02:36.608 --> 01:02:41.355
I think you, indirectly pointed to the power of, uh, goal setting.

01:02:41.785 --> 01:02:50.320
Any specific things you were doing in your training routine, Hans, which allowed you to maintain that kind of fitness.

01:02:51.010 --> 01:02:55.790
We don't have to get into specifics, but were you climbing a lot of routes at the gym?

01:02:56.170 --> 01:03:02.890
How did you balance, let's say on the wall training with off the wall training besides doing those countless sit ups?

01:03:03.387 --> 01:03:03.737
right.

01:03:03.818 --> 01:03:10.528
well, one thing is great is that like Kung Fu karate climbing, it uses every part of your body.

01:03:10.538 --> 01:03:14.178
So no matter what part of your body is tired, you can train something else.

01:03:14.498 --> 01:03:26.448
And you know, sit ups, Actually, the front of your body core strength is not as important as the rear part of your body core strength.

01:03:26.448 --> 01:03:31.097
And so you want to work everything core strength sides and front and back.

01:03:31.397 --> 01:03:32.307
Um, why am I saying that?

01:03:32.307 --> 01:03:35.228
And we didn't want to get into details everything is climbing.

01:03:35.248 --> 01:03:36.308
Everything is karate.

01:03:36.482 --> 01:03:43.358
when I'm doing sit ups in the gym for that three hours in the morning, I visualize like I'm holding some position.

01:03:43.358 --> 01:03:51.613
And if you're watching the video, I'm like holding my hand up my toe down here, which is, myofascial train in your body, you know, it's length and all core strength.

01:03:51.613 --> 01:03:53.443
And I'm envisioning the climbing part of it.

01:03:54.013 --> 01:04:05.705
to, that end, though, more specific is that there was cracks at, The touchstone gyms that I went to and I would put my stuff, my hands in cracks and climb up and down repeatedly and try to do the route the hard way.

01:04:05.705 --> 01:04:10.015
Do my thumbs down, my thumbs up, my palms face left, my palms face right.

01:04:10.015 --> 01:04:12.175
So that I'm kind of making the crack different.

01:04:12.185 --> 01:04:18.243
Every time I go up using the footholds around the crack, not using the footholds around the crack, all that sort of stuff.

01:04:18.472 --> 01:04:23.902
and you know, I climbed just regular face climbs in the gym as well, but just volume of climbing and.

01:04:24.152 --> 01:04:29.572
The whole time I'm envisioning, perhaps it's a pitch or two on the nose while I'm doing it.

01:04:29.572 --> 01:04:33.772
It's your body visualizing why you're doing something is hugely helpful.

01:04:34.842 --> 01:04:42.139
I've seen interviews with people that, you know, high end martial artists that do movies with Jackie Chan.

01:04:42.139 --> 01:04:45.969
And they're like, Oh yeah, when I'm doing the dishes, I'm on the splits, one foot up on the counter.

01:04:45.969 --> 01:04:47.469
Well, you know, that sort of thing.

01:04:47.480 --> 01:04:48.419
Everything's karate.

01:04:48.419 --> 01:04:55.356
You're just, so without getting specifics, I, when I teach clinics, I say, Hey, if you're doing a crunch, if you're doing a.

01:04:55.741 --> 01:04:57.581
a plank, whatever.

01:04:57.751 --> 01:05:09.582
Think, feel, visualize what move on whatever bouldering project you're doing or climbing route or goal you have and think like, yeah, I, I need this core strength or this fitness for that.

01:05:09.582 --> 01:05:10.842
I'm going to apply this later.

01:05:10.902 --> 01:05:11.262
You know?

01:05:11.601 --> 01:05:12.301
For sure.

01:05:12.447 --> 01:05:23.010
You were able to think of specific kinds of movement needs and strength needs and find a way to train for them.

01:05:23.372 --> 01:05:27.081
Within the, uh, walls of a climbing gym.

01:05:27.181 --> 01:05:30.451
And sounds like, yeah, that paid off, paid off well.

01:05:30.907 --> 01:05:33.527
And I love that, uh, expression again.

01:05:33.947 --> 01:05:35.507
Everything is karate.

01:05:36.024 --> 01:05:38.484
just made me wonder, there is this.

01:05:39.020 --> 01:05:44.420
Sort of famous book climb in, uh, in Bishop at Pine Creek called Everything is Karate.

01:05:45.150 --> 01:05:49.530
I think F8 by Chris Sharma a few years ago, and now it's seen a few more ascents.

01:05:49.550 --> 01:05:52.510
Yeah, I, I was just wondering if there's a connection between that expression.

01:05:53.353 --> 01:05:55.113
Oh, I didn't know he did that way to go.

01:05:55.123 --> 01:05:55.623
Sharma.

01:05:56.003 --> 01:05:56.703
Is it hard?

01:05:57.353 --> 01:06:02.273
14D, not, not hard, not so hard for him maybe, but yeah, for the rest of us.

01:06:02.983 --> 01:06:03.323
yeah.

01:06:03.576 --> 01:06:03.996
yeah.

01:06:04.526 --> 01:06:04.856
Yeah.

01:06:04.906 --> 01:06:13.331
not, not, not easy for, uh, For anybody really, with so much climbing volume over the decades, you have been so consistent.

01:06:13.461 --> 01:06:15.148
Have you had injuries?

01:06:15.449 --> 01:06:20.174
Are there, any kind of limitations that You have to work through?

01:06:20.524 --> 01:06:25.951
Curious as to how you have maintained to stay in fine fettle over the years.

01:06:26.080 --> 01:06:26.360
How

01:06:26.639 --> 01:06:30.732
I've had um, overuse injuries, strained tendons.

01:06:30.981 --> 01:06:34.419
I've had three knee operations, all of them orthoscopic.

01:06:34.630 --> 01:06:44.545
uh, when we rotate our knees in the Egyptian sort of drop knee position from sport climbing and then put pressure on it, it's, you know, anatomically really terrible on your meniscus.

01:06:44.555 --> 01:06:46.655
Your bones are aligned really well.

01:06:46.765 --> 01:06:51.475
to rip your meniscus And I I ripped both of my meniscus.

01:06:51.475 --> 01:06:58.455
Luckily for me, good genes or whatever, they just went in and cleaned out the rip and I just have less cushion in my knees than most people.

01:06:58.886 --> 01:07:00.592
So I had those operations.

01:07:00.989 --> 01:07:09.612
and then, uh, I broke my thumb one time in Patagonia taking a, a fall that probably should have broken my back, but I ended up with a broken thumb.

01:07:09.908 --> 01:07:14.871
interesting side note, the emergency visit in, uh, Porto Natalis was 35.

01:07:16.001 --> 01:07:17.751
They splinted my thumb and x rayed it.

01:07:18.337 --> 01:07:25.317
After 35 years of climbing had my first large enough accident that I needed to be rescued.

01:07:25.317 --> 01:07:32.038
I broke my right heel and my left tib fib falling about 17 feet on El Cap, hit a ledge.

01:07:32.038 --> 01:07:33.437
That was 2018.

01:07:33.964 --> 01:07:45.222
That was tough, wheelchair for two months, crutches for two months, um, knee scooter for a month, yeah, and fortunate for me, everything came back, I was running a year afterwards,

01:07:45.730 --> 01:07:45.920
yeah.

01:07:45.920 --> 01:07:46.590
How about today?

01:07:46.590 --> 01:07:49.307
Are there, uh, any injuries or.

01:07:49.667 --> 01:07:55.002
Maybe overuse, stresses that you have to work around as you train and climb.

01:07:55.428 --> 01:08:01.927
right now I'm in Tahoe, as I'm talking to you, and, I just got foot surgery for five days ago.

01:08:02.497 --> 01:08:03.257
Five days ago.

01:08:03.909 --> 01:08:06.122
elective, it's called Morton's neuroma.

01:08:06.122 --> 01:08:15.262
It's very common in women who wear, it's usually women who wear high heel, very tight shoes because it squeezes your forefoot together, much like climbing shoes.

01:08:15.272 --> 01:08:20.462
So it's, it's probably we'll see a lot more climbers getting this operation decades into wearing tight shoes.

01:08:20.903 --> 01:08:23.313
It's just a pinch nerve between your second and third toe.

01:08:23.313 --> 01:08:33.399
And, for me, 99 percent of the time, it doesn't bother me, but just the right twisting, of course, in a crack or, oddly on a foothold makes it feel like a knife is being driven into your foot.

01:08:33.399 --> 01:08:39.668
But as soon as you take your foot off of that position, for me anyway, the pain goes away rather quickly.

01:08:39.969 --> 01:08:43.179
Um, so I don't have to get the operation, but I did.

01:08:43.179 --> 01:08:50.498
And, now I'll have a little teeny one inch numb spot between those two toes, uh, maybe forever, but maybe it'll come back.

01:08:50.498 --> 01:08:52.740
But, that's kind of the most recent thing.

01:08:52.740 --> 01:08:59.405
Um, but I've been, um, Biking and hiking and climbing all through that and surfing, um, paddle boarding.

01:08:59.956 --> 01:09:11.686
You mentioned it's elective, what I'm, uh, gauging is that without the surgery, you would still have been able to do most things, but maybe jamming your foot in contorted positions.

01:09:12.167 --> 01:09:14.262
Was not something you were able to do.

01:09:14.607 --> 01:09:20.496
not, um, not with an, Uh, with boldness that I will be hopefully if the surgery works.

01:09:20.763 --> 01:09:28.963
mean, we all feel discomfort in our climbing shoes after a while wearing them, if we're wearing tight shoes and we feel discomfort stuffing in the crack.

01:09:28.993 --> 01:09:31.203
But, you just like hand jamming you.

01:09:31.413 --> 01:09:38.933
You get used to it, you learn how to place your hand in there and squeeze on it so that the pain isn't detrimental to breaking your bones or breaking the skin.

01:09:38.933 --> 01:09:40.433
And with feet, it's the same way.

01:09:40.433 --> 01:09:50.173
I mean, yeah, my feet hurt stuffing them in the crack, even when they were at their healthiest, but it was something that you can mitigate by just rotating your foot and taking it out after a while.

01:09:50.173 --> 01:10:00.098
But with this Morton's neuroma, it was so painful that like, it just, you're in, Enough pain that you would, might jump out of the crack and being on lead.

01:10:00.098 --> 01:10:01.128
That wouldn't be a good idea.

01:10:01.128 --> 01:10:03.488
You know, it just, it's so distracting.

01:10:03.488 --> 01:10:06.868
It's, it's not worth the climbing pain.

01:10:07.853 --> 01:10:16.573
the way You described it, uh, you know, Made me certainly want to make sure that if I have ever have those issues come up, I tackle them early.

01:10:17.527 --> 01:10:21.992
Any kind of prehab drills, Hans, that you do today

01:10:22.379 --> 01:10:27.152
I'll say the number one thing that kept me healthy when I was sport climbing at my best.

01:10:27.514 --> 01:10:30.652
Was, contrast bath for my hands.

01:10:30.672 --> 01:10:42.592
Cause your hands are the thing, forearms and hands and elbows are the most likely thing to get an overuse injury from bouldering and sport climbing, I think.

01:10:42.957 --> 01:10:51.177
and so I would, if I was on the road, I'd find a cold stream to soak my hands in at the end of the day, and then let them thaw and then put them back in again.

01:10:51.177 --> 01:10:53.037
Um, Let them thaw, put them back in again.

01:10:53.387 --> 01:10:54.562
plug for Physivantage.

01:10:54.582 --> 01:11:04.452
Collagen has been shown and proven that it takes collagen right to your mucus polysaccharides area is what the building blocks of tendons are.

01:11:04.572 --> 01:11:06.092
and it takes it there to your fingers.

01:11:06.809 --> 01:11:12.949
it's like all your body parts, your tendons and your muscles, you stress them and then they grow stronger for you.

01:11:13.029 --> 01:11:13.979
Humans are amazing.

01:11:14.019 --> 01:11:21.279
And it, by the way, it works when you're 60, uh, well, I'm not 60 yet, but it works when you're 20 and it works when you're 30 and 40.

01:11:21.279 --> 01:11:30.059
Maybe not at the same level, but you're stressing your tendons, your muscles, and then your body says, Oh, I got to make those stronger to be ready for the future.

01:11:30.429 --> 01:11:35.944
So one way is fueling yourself with good food and supplements.

01:11:36.095 --> 01:11:42.218
The other is, your body responds to hot cold onn parts of your body.

01:11:42.267 --> 01:11:49.437
I've heard recent things about like, don't put ice on a swollen ankle or this, that, cause your body's swelling up because that's what it's supposed to do.

01:11:49.750 --> 01:12:04.220
I don't want to say I know which is better cause I don't, but I do know when my hands are not injured, but I'm just stuck in a cold bath and then in a warm water and then cold bath, they are way more flexible and just feel more alive.

01:12:04.220 --> 01:12:07.665
And, um, And you don't have that claw hand when you go to sleep at night.

01:12:07.975 --> 01:12:09.625
that can only be good to flush it.

01:12:09.635 --> 01:12:11.595
Basically you're flushing the area, right?

01:12:11.625 --> 01:12:12.595
Hot, cold, hot, cold.

01:12:12.595 --> 01:12:15.046
You're flushing fluids through your hands.

01:12:15.066 --> 01:12:23.262
There's a lot of small capillaries and small blood vessels and to help the body carry stuff through the lymph node systems is just good.

01:12:23.572 --> 01:12:24.982
And hot and cold does that.

01:12:25.392 --> 01:12:27.192
Those compression sleeves do that as well.

01:12:27.212 --> 01:12:29.971
So if you can afford a massage, then get one.

01:12:30.523 --> 01:12:46.777
what I gather is if you're watching Netflix and you're not doing sit ups instead, you should be doing those contrast baths by dipping your fingers in alternatively in a hot versus cold, environments.

01:12:47.087 --> 01:12:48.960
It's interesting that you do that.

01:12:49.207 --> 01:12:59.877
and cryotherapy, you know, has taken off in the last decade, I think where sometimes people have ice baths installed in their houses.

01:12:59.877 --> 01:13:05.797
Now I see that as becoming somewhat, uh, popular in the surfing world.

01:13:06.472 --> 01:13:14.212
where a lot of like pro surfers have, uh, ice baths and maybe access to saunas and they're going back and forth.

01:13:14.466 --> 01:13:20.546
Given the all body demands, that climbing induces.

01:13:20.646 --> 01:13:53.541
I yeah, I'm curious if climbers are also adopting a whole body cryotherapy to recover from, intense climbing sessions, because like what you said makes You know, it's science, you know, you, you stimulate your body in a different way when you put it through those, uh, those extremes of hot and cold, it has helped you and others also recover from, the use of their fingers and their limbs and their, uh, arms maybe cryotherapy is being adopted by climbers more mainstream.

01:13:53.541 --> 01:13:54.981
I don't know if you knew any,

01:13:55.235 --> 01:14:04.995
I think all athletes, all athletes are investing time and, and it looks like it's, it's a win for any athlete is cold therapy.

01:14:04.995 --> 01:14:17.326
I mean, this, the Hoff method of, dealing with cold is certainly popular, makes it sound less than what it is, but I mean, it's, it's good science and a good human mind.

01:14:17.666 --> 01:14:32.706
Some of it's mind over matter, but, Definitely, they're even showing like you're going to lose more weight by dropping yourself in a cold plunge every day than if you do, you know, get your heart rate over 135 for an hour and sweat, you'll be better off.

01:14:32.716 --> 01:14:37.800
Your calories will burn off because you're trying to you know, adapt from that cold sensation.

01:14:37.930 --> 01:14:43.393
And I'm hearing all these wonderful things about cold therapy Now you're going to have, um, Eric Hirscht on.

01:14:44.423 --> 01:14:48.813
After me, or I don't know if you'll broadcast for him, but he's, he's like, Mr.

01:14:48.813 --> 01:14:50.123
Science about all this stuff.

01:14:50.123 --> 01:14:55.277
And, I installed a red infrared sauna at my house after visiting his place.

01:14:55.277 --> 01:15:03.138
Um, infrared saunas are really good for you and at least the science shows and cold water therapy is really good for you too.

01:15:04.523 --> 01:15:05.683
throw it all at it man.

01:15:06.423 --> 01:15:06.853
Absolutely.

01:15:06.873 --> 01:15:16.323
and and Hans, uh, if you ever decide to take your newfound surfing skills and come surf with me in San francisco and around.

01:15:16.363 --> 01:15:16.833
And if you.

01:15:16.833 --> 01:15:21.533
decide to not wear a wetsuit, I will understand where that is coming from.

01:15:22.543 --> 01:15:26.743
Yeah, 81 degrees water down in Nicaragua.

01:15:26.743 --> 01:15:27.893
I like that.

01:15:27.923 --> 01:15:28.653
That was nice.

01:15:28.806 --> 01:15:33.232
I spent a month, a month and a half in Nicaragua, like six years ago on a surf trip.

01:15:33.693 --> 01:15:37.506
Yeah, the surface, it's obviously warm, but it's also really, really good.

01:15:37.556 --> 01:15:38.406
yeah, great that.

01:15:38.406 --> 01:15:39.356
you were able to fit That in.

01:15:39.872 --> 01:15:48.223
you know, you are about around 60 from the rest of the world's perspective, you are still accomplishing exemplary things.

01:15:48.573 --> 01:15:54.053
You just mentioned that you have trips to climb the nose planned out for this year.

01:15:54.133 --> 01:16:02.582
So you are certainly not slacking, but from your own perspective, Hans Are you aging gracefully?

01:16:02.929 --> 01:16:05.119
Well, that's a matter of opinion, I guess.

01:16:05.196 --> 01:16:06.186
from your opinion,

01:16:06.824 --> 01:16:18.251
you know, we all have seasons the answer is, I, I don't know, but I, of, I, my biggest, or I think everyone's most important, that's the right word, most important critic should be yourself.

01:16:18.571 --> 01:16:24.273
if you don't trust your own judgment of yourself, then, I don't know, it seems like a pop psychology thing.

01:16:24.273 --> 01:16:25.915
You need to do some work on yourself.

01:16:25.996 --> 01:16:29.376
I just think that like, why would you let anyone else decide?

01:16:29.546 --> 01:16:34.306
whether you're doing a good job aging gracefully, um, you should decide.

01:16:34.556 --> 01:16:37.935
and I'm pretty, happy with how I'm doing it.

01:16:38.147 --> 01:16:39.517
I'm pretty good with it.

01:16:39.517 --> 01:16:41.087
I raised some kids.

01:16:41.107 --> 01:16:43.707
Um, I've been, I know that parenting's lucky.

01:16:43.707 --> 01:16:46.837
I've been super lucky that my kids are wonderful.

01:16:47.125 --> 01:16:57.257
I had a decently long marriage of 17 years to get those kids out of the, so I've been, partially effective at the classical Western monogamous marriage.

01:16:57.517 --> 01:16:57.887
I don't know.

01:16:58.077 --> 01:16:59.247
Some people would say it's a failure.

01:16:59.247 --> 01:17:04.337
I'd say it's a, you know, a success of 17 years of good family stuff.

01:17:04.648 --> 01:17:06.598
and you know, I'm trying other sports.

01:17:06.598 --> 01:17:14.248
I'm biking a little bit more than I used to, and I'm paddle board sporting more than I used to, and tried new surfing.

01:17:14.460 --> 01:17:19.330
I don't know what grace is, but I think TNT embracing new things or trying new things is good.

01:17:19.699 --> 01:17:20.949
Congrats on, uh,accomplishments so far.

01:17:21.359 --> 01:17:30.399
And, uh, for those yet to come, any significant goals you have for the next five to 10 years, either with climbing or outside,

01:17:31.025 --> 01:17:40.431
the thing I mentioned about, I didn't really say it this way because it's tricky is that, you know, taking people up the nose, you're going to be part of a time in their life that they'll never forget.

01:17:40.441 --> 01:17:45.171
So you're, you become quote unquote, immortal or memorable in their life.

01:17:45.771 --> 01:17:47.831
I'm going to, I'd like to move more to.

01:17:48.806 --> 01:17:52.206
Taking people climbing in places like Greece and Kalimnos.

01:17:52.206 --> 01:17:57.336
I'm actually teaming up with Heidi Wurtz, who's in her 50s, and she's been guiding her whole life.

01:17:57.376 --> 01:17:59.486
A wonderful spirit.

01:17:59.486 --> 01:18:15.776
She is, living the guide climbing life, and, um, she takes people to Cuba and Puerto Rico and Mexico and Colorado and Kalimnos, Greece, and all over the place, and does yoga climbing retreats, and so she's kind enough to partner with me to do some of that, so.

01:18:16.201 --> 01:18:23.570
I think I enjoy, you stay young by taking people that it's new to them.

01:18:23.570 --> 01:18:34.020
It doesn't have to be younger people I'm taking climbing, it has to be people, it should be people that I'm introducing to something new or just introducing to a new crag, a new place to climb.

01:18:34.320 --> 01:18:35.170
I've been fortunate.

01:18:35.170 --> 01:18:40.958
I've gotten to climb around the world and it's introduced me to some of the incredible things to see around the world.

01:18:41.297 --> 01:18:48.313
I again appreciate that I'm in a privileged place that I get to travel, but I'm going to take advantage of it and show other people it.

01:18:48.345 --> 01:18:52.950
gives me great joy and I think it inspires other people and motivates them to explore the world.

01:18:53.712 --> 01:18:54.602
plug, plug there.

01:18:54.632 --> 01:18:57.842
Um, look me up for guiding trips, Smile Mountain Guides.

01:18:58.437 --> 01:19:01.387
I'm teaching a multi pitch climbing class in May this year.

01:19:01.387 --> 01:19:03.217
I don't know if the podcast come up by then, but

01:19:03.817 --> 01:19:10.474
it is such a honor to be able to pass on one's love for climbing.

01:19:10.514 --> 01:19:11.064
And I'm.

01:19:11.670 --> 01:19:23.548
not just for your sake, but for everybody else's sake, who is going to be lucky enough to be able to climb with you and learn with you and from you.

01:19:24.178 --> 01:19:37.586
And it just also makes me marvel at the sport of hours where somebody like you, who's, you know, so accomplished in the world of climbing can personally impart your knowledge to some.

01:19:38.036 --> 01:19:39.056
new climber.

01:19:39.796 --> 01:19:42.596
This is not true in other mainstream sports.

01:19:43.156 --> 01:19:52.936
most of us cannot aspire to go and learn how to swing a golf club with Tiger Woods or Or play ball with Michael Jordan, so

01:19:53.625 --> 01:19:55.805
wow, we are on the same track.

01:19:55.825 --> 01:20:02.041
I use that example all the time, whatever controversies there are about Tiger Woods, set those aside.

01:20:02.041 --> 01:20:08.761
It's like, you're not going to go golfing at your local club and then run into him at the tee off and he's going to give you some tips, you know, so.

01:20:09.592 --> 01:20:19.345
John McEnroe at the tennis club, you know, yeah, it's not going to happen, but you could, you might well run into Lynn Hill at the crag, and she might, give you a tip on how to tie your chalk bag better.

01:20:20.667 --> 01:20:43.070
Extraordinary how special our sport is Hans, if you were to go back in time, maybe 20 or 30 years ago, what would you tell the young Hans on something that the young Hans should do either differently or double down on what he was doing?

01:20:43.557 --> 01:20:49.697
You know, as soon as I am about to open my mouth to say, I wish I had spent more time on this.

01:20:49.717 --> 01:20:53.467
I'm like, but you know what I was doing, it was just as hell of fun.

01:20:53.857 --> 01:20:54.257
And, yeah.

01:20:54.827 --> 01:20:56.347
brought my life to a different path.

01:20:56.347 --> 01:21:03.416
I mean, one thing I think about is like, Hey, you know, I climbed the nose with Lynn the season before she freed it.

01:21:03.706 --> 01:21:07.386
Why didn't I just help her out and, you know, give it a try myself back then.

01:21:07.786 --> 01:21:15.546
I was nowhere near the free climbers here, but like maybe I could have gotten the second ascent seasons later and been the first male to free climbing.

01:21:15.976 --> 01:21:20.886
But I just, at that time, you know, I just didn't have the commitment for that sort of climbing.

01:21:20.886 --> 01:21:23.643
I had, That, at least that played out in my sport climbing.

01:21:23.643 --> 01:21:35.318
I'd go around to sport climbing areas and anything I could on site that's what I'd get on and like, eh, you know, try it on site at 13A, okay, but I'm not going to try 13B, C, Ds, because those take me two or three tries too distracted.

01:21:35.318 --> 01:21:37.688
I want to go do more stuff rather than the same thing.

01:21:37.963 --> 01:21:47.559
so, I don't, you know, Don't have regrets and things that I tell my previous self that, Hey, spend more effort here or there.

01:21:47.962 --> 01:21:50.002
you know, uh, I got super lucky.

01:21:50.002 --> 01:21:53.912
I invested in touchstone climbing and that was something I didn't need to tell myself.

01:21:53.912 --> 01:21:57.052
And, you know, it's like invest in Apple stock, you know, I don't know.

01:21:57.302 --> 01:21:59.242
Um, it's been absolute joy.

01:21:59.802 --> 01:22:09.042
To be involved with the Touchstone Climbing Gym community the whole time and just feel super lucky that I was there when they were building Mission Cliffs, you know.

01:22:09.290 --> 01:22:13.257
and I've gotten to climb with the founder, Mark Melvin many times.

01:22:13.297 --> 01:22:20.502
Just a joy to see true core climbers are at the base of this, Credible company.

01:22:20.902 --> 01:22:22.247
I mean, that's just one aspect.

01:22:22.833 --> 01:22:24.583
there's just so many fortunate things.

01:22:24.583 --> 01:22:31.113
I can only, I just get so overloaded with all the things I'm fortunate and appreciative of rather than what I missed out on,

01:22:31.656 --> 01:22:38.936
I think the fact that you double down on your passion, I, I, I think that it's hard to have regrets of that.

01:22:38.936 --> 01:22:42.705
I mean, it sounds like it paid off well for you to invest in the, climbing community.

01:22:43.785 --> 01:22:47.675
If it's something one loves, then it doesn't feel like such an effort.

01:22:47.675 --> 01:22:54.815
And I'm finding that actually with this podcast while I'm taking quote unquote, a break from, uh, you know, a normal full time career that pays the bills.

01:22:54.815 --> 01:22:54.855
Yeah.

01:22:55.355 --> 01:23:06.259
And I'm doing this, this show where honestly, even if this doesn't go anywhere, just the fact that I'm having the The joy and the honor of uh, speaking with people such as yourself.

01:23:06.259 --> 01:23:07.879
I'm like, I will never regret this.

01:23:07.959 --> 01:23:18.849
It's it's just fun because I love doing this reading your book over the weekend, quote unquote, which could be work it's not work because I might be doing that on the weekend anyway.

01:23:19.039 --> 01:23:32.360
So, yeah, no, I think, I think putting the effort into your, uh, passion is, such a, such a good, uh, way to, uh, Set oneself up for whatever else is there to come.

01:23:32.640 --> 01:23:58.734
And just closing out one of the other questions, any great habit or behavior over the last five years that has most impacted your life and the try new things is certainly huge, but I sense that you've been doing that for most of your life, you have been doing different, exciting things, but maybe something in the last few years that's been impactful.

01:23:58.872 --> 01:24:01.992
you know, like meditation or, um, not meditate.

01:24:01.992 --> 01:24:10.078
I don't, I have done some meditation, but, I'm trying to think of the, I always kind of poke fun at Mill Valley, Berkeley.

01:24:10.549 --> 01:24:13.909
wooty, poof, de I dunno, hippie eastern stuff.

01:24:14.108 --> 01:24:17.558
yet lots of my friends are involved with it one level or another.

01:24:18.058 --> 01:24:31.218
But, um, journaling is, is something really interesting and it, I, I mean, I, I've written down in the back of my book on the nose every single ascent I did and who they were, and a sense or two about what this scent was.

01:24:31.218 --> 01:24:32.388
I mean, this book marks my.

01:24:32.963 --> 01:24:33.933
100 percent of it.

01:24:33.943 --> 01:24:43.831
And there's chosen stories in the book of those things, but it's about, journaling is measuring, monitoring, managing, manifesting, uh, motivating.

01:24:43.851 --> 01:24:45.901
These M's are really easy to remember.

01:24:45.956 --> 01:24:51.367
It allows you to see where you were so you can improve on your past self.

01:24:52.327 --> 01:25:01.317
I don't know if people think that's competitive or, or, um, ambitious or whatever, but like, it's neat to measure, you know, your hand strength one week and then.

01:25:01.532 --> 01:25:03.282
Check it the next week and I didn't improve.

01:25:03.282 --> 01:25:05.672
But if you measure a bunch of things something's going to improve.

01:25:05.672 --> 01:25:07.322
Like, uh, my flexibility improved.

01:25:07.372 --> 01:25:12.062
Oh, my squats or my bench press or my speed up this route.

01:25:12.372 --> 01:25:17.132
Or, you know, we assign quantitative numbers to the difficulty of routes.

01:25:17.132 --> 01:25:19.112
And like, oh, I did three, five, sevens.

01:25:19.112 --> 01:25:22.082
Or I did more, more to my journaling as I like.

01:25:22.122 --> 01:25:22.682
Oh, I did.

01:25:23.607 --> 01:25:27.337
Five, five 11s rather than I did a 513.

01:25:27.641 --> 01:25:28.941
it's not that it's more important to me.

01:25:28.941 --> 01:25:30.701
It's just, that's just more my swing.

01:25:30.701 --> 01:25:35.911
Is that so the Ms, um, I think is really important is to journal what you do.

01:25:36.531 --> 01:25:39.231
Like people have a climbing journal of the routes.

01:25:39.231 --> 01:25:39.471
They did.

01:25:39.491 --> 01:25:42.251
I heard Alex Honnold journals every climb he does.

01:25:42.261 --> 01:25:44.601
And he writes things down like, Oh, I didn't eat enough.

01:25:44.918 --> 01:25:45.508
it was.

01:25:45.727 --> 01:26:13.145
Umid out or hot out and I didn't bring enough clothing or something like that notes to himself and in my day and age We used to have Day planners and which I see they're still for sale nowadays But I would write in a day planner like I climbed this route at this time And I would have business notes in there too, but I did a lot of Physicality things and it's cool to look back in those journals, those day planners from 1992 and look like, Oh yeah, look at this.

01:26:13.145 --> 01:26:14.585
I climbed, holy shoot.

01:26:14.585 --> 01:26:17.245
I climbed 12 routes in a day at a sport climbing area.

01:26:17.245 --> 01:26:19.135
Like how did I have the fitness to do that?

01:26:19.135 --> 01:26:29.501
And, so journaling and measuring where you're at, so you can see where you're going, if, if it's just that simple, a torpedo doesn't hit a target, by not knowing where it is.

01:26:29.511 --> 01:26:31.531
It's always correcting back to.

01:26:32.071 --> 01:26:33.451
Hit the ship or something.

01:26:33.481 --> 01:26:33.851
I don't know.

01:26:34.232 --> 01:26:45.574
It does seem like, many over achievers out there do seem to have a consistent writing or journaling practice.

01:26:45.947 --> 01:27:13.245
I am surprised, actually, that this practice is somewhat new to you, given that you have been a So meticulous and quantified in your approach, at least when it came to, uh, tracking your climbing, tracking your, uh, your, a sense of the nodes and the way you planned for it and the way you found ways to, assess improvement.

01:27:13.685 --> 01:27:19.114
I would have thought that you have been journaling all through the decades.

01:27:19.661 --> 01:27:23.881
Well, certainly there's a huge amount of journaling.

01:27:23.881 --> 01:27:25.711
you keep as memory in your head.

01:27:25.711 --> 01:27:27.391
You don't write it down anywhere.

01:27:27.507 --> 01:27:28.337
so there's that.

01:27:28.337 --> 01:27:32.317
And all of us have different levels of capacity to store those things.

01:27:32.954 --> 01:27:46.604
I think kind of a basic thing that I learned as an athlete, and by the way, I didn't start climbing until I was 19, so I had a lot of life before I started, and I didn't full time climb until I was 24 or 5, and people say, oh, you were a pro climber.

01:27:46.604 --> 01:27:49.221
I'm like, no, I was a full time climber, but I wasn't a pro climber.

01:27:49.419 --> 01:27:55.496
one basic thing about training, I guess, and looking at a goal is track and field.

01:27:55.626 --> 01:28:00.986
You lift weights in October, November, December, then you go out and you, um.

01:28:01.416 --> 01:28:07.686
And you still kind of lift weights a little bit, which has nothing to do with running or pole vaulting or throwing a javelin, right?

01:28:07.696 --> 01:28:08.686
Lifting weights in the weight room.

01:28:09.086 --> 01:28:28.827
And it has nothing to do with rock climbing, but you, uh, you stress your body, you gain muscle mass and then come springtime, and I'm using that as both figuratively and literally, come springtime when you're going to go do whatever it is you're going to, do, you start doing the technique and you now coordinate those muscles that you stressed and grew in the fall.

01:28:28.827 --> 01:28:37.679
you coordinate them You then apply them to the performance, you know, and as track and field season goes on in the spring, you lift less and less.

01:28:37.679 --> 01:28:41.659
And then the last month or two of track and field, you lift no weights at all.

01:28:41.659 --> 01:28:42.939
You're only doing technique.

01:28:42.939 --> 01:28:45.619
You're only coordinating those muscles.

01:28:45.619 --> 01:28:49.649
You grew in the fall and then you repeat it in the year.

01:28:49.649 --> 01:28:53.849
And, um, it's really simplistic, some climbers don't come from an athletic background.

01:28:53.849 --> 01:28:56.167
They don't think of it that way.

01:28:56.559 --> 01:28:58.239
It was certainly not back in the nineties.

01:28:58.565 --> 01:28:59.078
thanks for that.

01:28:59.125 --> 01:29:02.929
How can people find you on the interwebs?

01:29:03.489 --> 01:29:12.336
And you shared some information about, coaching and, sorry, not coaching maybe, but climbing trips, a guided climbing that you've coming up.

01:29:12.476 --> 01:29:16.896
If people are interested, how can they get on those trips?

01:29:16.966 --> 01:29:18.966
Would you mind sharing some of that information

01:29:19.247 --> 01:29:20.867
so this is where we, I dunno, shame.

01:29:20.867 --> 01:29:26.387
I'm gonna shamelessly plug because I, I enjoy, I enjoy meeting new people and climbing with new people.

01:29:26.686 --> 01:29:31.456
smile Mountain Guides is brave enough to let me guide for them in Colorado in the front range.

01:29:31.516 --> 01:29:33.196
Uh, that'll lead May 14th.

01:29:33.886 --> 01:29:34.576
You can go to Smile Mountain.

01:29:34.876 --> 01:29:35.146
God.

01:29:35.706 --> 01:29:41.088
Oh, gosh, I think it's com, but, my most engaged platform is Instagram.

01:29:41.118 --> 01:29:46.558
People can, you know, you can't probably direct message Tiger Woods, but you can direct message me on Instagram.

01:29:46.757 --> 01:29:49.237
I'm on Facebook occasionally, but mostly Instagram.

01:29:49.237 --> 01:29:50.847
And I have a website, Hansfloring.

01:29:50.877 --> 01:29:57.020
com, which has stuff and you can buy my audio book there, speed climbing and on the nose.

01:29:57.402 --> 01:30:07.058
I'd say just if you're plugged into my social media, Instagram, you'll You see the announcements to go climbing with me in Greece or Mexico or, wherever I might be going,

01:30:07.370 --> 01:30:16.551
for those people who are timely and And fortunate enough, you might get to climb and, learn with, Hans himself.

01:30:16.561 --> 01:30:23.338
So yeah, absolutely encourage people to go check your social feeds, your website for more information.

01:30:23.498 --> 01:30:27.078
We will put those links in the show notes of this podcast.

01:30:27.528 --> 01:30:31.518
And lastly, Hans, I believe there is an exciting.

01:30:31.918 --> 01:30:40.788
Giveaway and I will announce the specifics of what people need to do, but what are we giving away with?

01:30:40.798 --> 01:30:42.138
The show

01:30:42.456 --> 01:30:55.855
well, we might give away more than we know right now because I keep asking some people I have relationships with, but right now we're going to give away some Physivantage product, Eric Hurst, The best research person known to doing cool physical things for climbing.

01:30:55.865 --> 01:30:58.635
He's got an awesome Physivantage brand of supplements.

01:30:59.095 --> 01:31:02.331
Um, and then we're going to give away, one of my books on the nose.

01:31:02.331 --> 01:31:02.971
I'll send to you.

01:31:03.151 --> 01:31:05.701
then Koros, interesting enough, Koros watches.

01:31:05.806 --> 01:31:07.003
it's a smart watch.

01:31:07.053 --> 01:31:07.833
I use it to.

01:31:08.108 --> 01:31:12.248
measure, monitor, manage, all of my stuff, and manifest goals.

01:31:12.288 --> 01:31:15.928
Um, it measures everything, altitude gain, all that stuff, and climbing pitches.

01:31:15.928 --> 01:31:17.878
We're going to give away a Khoros heart rate monitor.

01:31:18.244 --> 01:31:23.181
And we'll have the details when we post on Instagram, the podcast being broadcast.

01:31:23.756 --> 01:31:30.296
perfect and I think there's also possibly a signed copy of your book on the nose

01:31:31.191 --> 01:31:31.561
Yeah,

01:31:31.756 --> 01:31:32.596
So be up for grabs.

01:31:32.871 --> 01:31:33.241
yep.

01:31:33.751 --> 01:31:39.691
Being that this is podcast listeners, I think we've, you know, given the choice of the audio version of the book too.

01:31:39.811 --> 01:31:42.201
Or maybe I'll give, throw that in too, so they can listen to it.

01:31:42.201 --> 01:31:43.621
Because I was lucky enough to record it.

01:31:43.831 --> 01:31:47.321
And I should say a shout out, um, because you complimented this writing.

01:31:47.321 --> 01:31:47.676
It's beautiful.

01:31:47.836 --> 01:31:49.276
Jamie Moy.

01:31:49.606 --> 01:31:54.296
Um, I was so lucky to meet her before she became super uber famous.

01:31:54.326 --> 01:32:00.356
Um, she's won so many journalism rewards And she, uh, she made my stories readable and fun.

01:32:00.356 --> 01:32:02.906
So shout out to Jamie Moy for that.

01:32:03.316 --> 01:32:06.966
The book is, I, the book is eminently readable.

01:32:06.966 --> 01:32:13.570
I, I like reading and, it is a page turner even for somebody who, who is already obsessed with, climbing.

01:32:13.970 --> 01:32:21.120
I also recommend people watch this video that you have of you taking Jamie along with one other person.

01:32:21.590 --> 01:32:22.380
up the nose.

01:32:22.970 --> 01:32:23.820
It's a great video.

01:32:23.910 --> 01:32:27.960
I'll make sure to add that link in the show notes as well.

01:32:28.260 --> 01:32:31.690
Hans, it's been a pleasure having you on the show.

01:32:32.140 --> 01:32:34.550
Good luck with the healing

01:32:34.793 --> 01:32:35.173
Thanks.

01:32:35.173 --> 01:32:35.583
Thanks.

01:32:35.849 --> 01:32:38.159
all the best, uh, for your upcoming birthday.

01:32:38.159 --> 01:32:41.392
Uh, thank you for the, uh, inspiration over the years.

01:32:41.835 --> 01:32:42.635
You're so welcome.

01:32:42.635 --> 01:32:44.825
And I know you're local to the Bay area.

01:32:44.825 --> 01:32:47.714
So, uh, when I come through, let's try to rope up together.

01:32:47.854 --> 01:32:49.014
That would be amazing, Hans.

01:32:49.134 --> 01:32:50.954
It would be such, such an honor.

01:32:57.149 --> 01:33:07.589
A lot of folks, that was the one and only Hans Florine sharing his incredible stories about our captain and what it takes to be a safe and successful climber.

01:33:08.032 --> 01:33:11.212
hope you found his insights as inspiring as I did.

01:33:11.902 --> 01:33:16.192
If you want to dive deeper, grab a copy of Hans's fantastic book.

01:33:16.672 --> 01:33:17.272
On The Nose.

01:33:17.532 --> 01:33:19.526
Now get ready for awesome giveaway.

01:33:19.636 --> 01:33:20.176
Sorry.

01:33:21.175 --> 01:33:24.239
Only us residents are eligible for this raffle.

01:33:24.603 --> 01:33:26.073
We have got some.

01:33:26.643 --> 01:33:28.713
Incredible prizes for you, including.

01:33:29.613 --> 01:33:31.623
Uh, chorus, heart rate monitor.

01:33:32.390 --> 01:33:37.010
$2 50 gift certificates, do fuzzy vantage products.

01:33:37.640 --> 01:33:42.290
And of course a signed copy of on the nose by hands flooring himself.

01:33:43.190 --> 01:33:44.180
Here's how to enter.

01:33:44.210 --> 01:33:47.810
I create a post on Instagram.

01:33:47.990 --> 01:33:49.910
Diking bought this bought gas handled.

01:33:50.183 --> 01:33:51.233
and hands is happy.

01:33:51.833 --> 01:33:53.753
Leave a review or rating.

01:33:54.113 --> 01:33:54.983
For the ages.

01:33:55.043 --> 01:33:57.623
At the podcast in your favorite podcast app.

01:33:58.090 --> 01:34:01.180
Send screenshots of both your Instagram post.

01:34:01.490 --> 01:34:03.470
And your review rating to my email.

01:34:03.870 --> 01:34:07.380
To kush@agelessathlete.com.

01:34:08.490 --> 01:34:10.320
We will announce the winner soon.

01:34:10.827 --> 01:34:13.437
this raffle is only eligible for people in.

01:34:13.773 --> 01:34:21.263
The U S now, if you get a chance, head over to Yosemite yourself and see all climb on the breathtaking.

01:34:21.563 --> 01:34:23.277
Uh, capita before you go.

01:34:23.337 --> 01:34:28.647
For course, if you enjoyed this episode, I would really appreciate if you could subscribe to the podcast.

01:34:29.097 --> 01:34:31.707
And also leaving us a rating and review.

01:34:31.947 --> 01:34:32.697
Goes a long way.

01:34:32.937 --> 01:34:35.487
And helping us get the stories out to more folks.

01:34:35.817 --> 01:34:36.987
Thanks for listening.

01:34:37.617 --> 01:34:38.757
And until next time.

01:34:39.177 --> 01:34:40.737
Stay adventurous.

01:34:41.427 --> 01:34:43.887
Stay safe and stay ageless.