#28 Rebuilding a Life — Craft, Discipline, and Second Chances

Ageless Athlete - Kris Hampton
===

Kush: [00:00:00] ~Hey Chris, great to have you on Ageless Athlete. Please tell us where you are right now and what did you have for breakfast this morning?~

Kris Hampton: ~Hey, Kush. Thank you for having me on. Um, ~I am in Lander, Wyoming. This is where I live. It's not where I've always lived, but it's where I've been for the last seven, I think, years. And this morning I had multigrain Cheerios Blueberries, strawberries, and vanilla protein milk made with gnarly nutrition, vanilla whey protein.

Kush: Got it. I know you have a young child and, uh, I'm guessing

Kris Hampton: older child.

Kush: much older child. Uh, yes, absolutely. Um, just for this context, uh, Is this breakfast that you're sharing with your daughter? And in

Kris Hampton: since I've been, like, I always, rather than just pour the milk right in the Cheerios, I make protein milk and then pour it in. And [00:01:00] Now she's realized that my vanilla protein milk tastes better than her milk, and she's like, I want your Cheerios, Dad. So she's very into it.

So yes, we do end up sharing.

Kush: some way, it's classic also, right? Because I mean, when I was a kid, I think I usually always wanted what my

Kris Hampton: Yeah,

Kush: parents were doing, what they, what they were eating, what they were trying, even though maybe I didn't want it, but it felt cooler.

Kris Hampton: right. Absolutely. What's interesting though, you know, she, she very often doesn't like our dinners. And she isn't interested in our dinners. She's like, I just want cottage cheese and, and that's good. don't, I don't want this Thai food that you guys are eating. Give me cottage cheese.

Kush: Sounds like a child who knows what she wants.

Kris Hampton: She knows what she wants. Yeah. I'm glad she does.

Kush: Well, um, You know, talking of childhood, you have had an [00:02:00] interesting upbringing yourself, Chris. Yeah, would love to just, uh, learn first who you are and, uh, what do you do?

Kris Hampton: Uh, so I think my identity right now is sort of defined by what I do. So I am a, besides being a father, which we already talked about, I'm also Grandfather, um, I have a 27 year old daughter with a four year old granddaughter and, uh, besides that I'm a climber, coach, I like to think of myself as someone who's constantly trying to innovate in the climbing coaching space.

I'm never happy with the way we're doing it. And I always think there's a better way. so I'm constantly trying to figure out what that better way is. 

Kush: uh, how old are you, Chris?

Kris Hampton: I'll be 50, October 5th of this year.

Kush: Okay. Well, that's a big [00:03:00] milestone. I am 46. I'm not a parent and I have huge admiration for people who are parents. I have a small dog, but I don't think that counts. I think that people who are, uh, You know, who are parents, I think they are, that's like a 513 plus grade. And I think you are a grandparent. So I think in my eyes, that's like 515.

Kris Hampton: Well, that's the only 515 I'm going to get to. I, I suspect, but, but I'll take it for sure. It's, it's the happiest way to get to 515. Um, I don't have to grab any sharp, painful holds and it's, It's just all joy. I mean, it's hard work for sure. Uh, not the grandparent part. That part's really easy and fun, but the joy outweighs the work by drastic measures.

Kush: Yeah. And not only are you. A successful parent and a grandparent. You're also [00:04:00] creating all kinds of amazing content, managing this, uh, multifaceted approach to training and climbing and, uh, absorbing interesting content beyond just, just training. So I have enjoyed some of your, uh, Uh, content over time.

And I think that many of the people listening will as well. Please tell us, uh, Chris, how can people find more information about. the services that you provide to the world of climbing and beyond.

Kris Hampton: Yeah. So powercompanyclimbing. com is the website. Um, you can pretty much find everything in there, be it our training plans of all different levels, courses, podcasts, uh, YouTube videos, all the things we do there. have a bunch of podcasts, um, that can be found everywhere. Those are the Power Company podcast, Breaking Beta, which [00:05:00] is a science of climbing training podcast. And my most recent passion project has been written in stone, which is a climbing history podcast. That's very narrative story driven. I make all the music for it. And, uh, it's just a really, really interesting look at history. Hmm. Mm

Kush: I can't wait to dive more into your, services as a, uh, you know, as a coach, as a, as an educator and, and maybe even a storyteller. But before that, uh, we'd love to learn a little bit more about you as well. I first heard about you and your music when I first started climbing at the Red.

This, this is 2006. You know, we couldn't just, you know, power a Spotify and just find any creator in the world. So, so maybe, uh, I'm trying to frame this question maybe in a way [00:06:00] that makes sense. You discovered climbing, I believe in the mid nineties.

Kris Hampton: Yep. 95.

Kush: let's say, uh, a rather unique upbringing,

Kris Hampton: Mm hmm.

Kush: um, would love for you to just, uh, paint some color into what brought you into climbing.

Kris Hampton: Sure.

Kush: yeah, let's just start with that.

Kris Hampton: Okay. Yeah, I. I grew up in a pretty bad little neighborhood in Cincinnati, Ohio. it didn't seem bad in my like youngest years. In fact, it was really great in that there were tons of kids my age. We played in the streets all the time. You know, we just ran around like little mad children and, it was really great.

Um, but there ended up, it was a pretty low income neighborhood, uh, a [00:07:00] lot of drugs, a lot of fighting, a lot of, um, parents who were getting involved in things that took them away from, you You know, paying attention to their children, whatever, whatever that was different things. and had a, a little brother, uh, I have two younger brothers, uh, a really young one.

My youngest brother died when he was three. That sort of sent my mom into a spiral and, and we, from that moment on, just never saw eye to eye and she, had a young boyfriend at that time. My dad had left when I was, you know, 11 or 12. And her boyfriend was only 10 years older than I was. And when I was 16, we got into a, a relationship. Big fight. Uh, the, the boyfriend and I did, and, I ended up going to juvenile, juvenile detention. And once I was released from [00:08:00] juvenile detention, I just never went home again. So lived under a metal slide in a park. Like I can still hear the rain on that metal slide in my head. And I never missed school that year that I lived under the slide.

I still worked full time at a Kroger, which was a grocery store. And I just really tried to keep sight of, I'm not going to let this stuff define me, you know. But I fell into the neighborhood and I ended up realizing I was really good at stealing cars and stealing car stereos. And I went down that path and ended up shortly after I turned 18 getting caught and, uh, sent to prison for four and a half years. Uh, but I was what's called shock probationed, meaning, uh, they sentenced me to the four and a half years. And then after I'd been in for a couple of weeks, [00:09:00] they sent me a letter that said, we're gonna let you out in six months. going to be on intensive supervision probation for the next four years. and then I got that down to, uh, three months by having a job while I was in, while I was locked up. And pretty much the, the week I got out of jail, I went to the climbing gym and like, I need new friends. I need new surroundings. I, I have to start over. And the climbing gym represented that for me

Kush: Chris, this is remarkable. So, uh, sorry, how old were you when you left home and you said you were living under a slide. So is this a slide like the, the,

Kris Hampton: Yeah.

Kush: the, the playground structure we see in the kids area in parks?

Kris Hampton: Yeah, it was like a really wide metal slide. Probably, you know, the width of, it was probably six feet wide or something. [00:10:00] Um, short, but wide. Um, so I just, I lived under that thing. That was my shelter when I was 16. I left at 16, right after my 16th birthday, actually.

Kush: Wow. So you were in Cincinnati living at the park, but you were continuing to go to school and get high grades. Is that, to me, I don't know enough about, I guess enough about the culture in Cincinnati back in the day, but was that common for somebody who was in one side conventionally struggling, but also scoring, uh, you know, high performance, uh, in academics?

Kris Hampton: no, I don't think so. I had a couple of, I had several people helping, you know, I had, uh, friends whose parents would let me, you know, come over in the mornings and shower and, uh, get ready for school, things like that. had a friend who I lived in their greenhouse through the winter. Um, because it was warmer in there, [00:11:00] um, and then at school, I had a couple of teachers who knew what I was going through, but who agreed not to say anything and to just, you know, help me along and they were, they were extremely helpful in the scenarios where it's like, You know, I couldn't get my homework done because it was raining and I live outside, you know, that's, so they would totally understand those things and, and give me time to, to stay caught up and to stay on top of things.

Kush: I am sensing maybe beyond just, uh, just, yeah, fundamental compassion. They might have also noticed some latent drive and maybe in firing you that they invested. in you to, uh,

Kris Hampton: so. I think so. And, and that sort of really came to, uh, like a really important point in my life that was, that was shown to me in a really strong way [00:12:00] by named Casey DeNoma, who was my probation officer, when I was released, uh, because I got into trouble again. you know, I didn't, I didn't get rid of all of my friends.

I was still making bad choices I got in trouble and I violated my probation. And, um, In the, the hearing for the probation violation, she, the judge asked if she wanted to say anything and she stood up and she, flat out lied the judge about

Kush: wow.

Kris Hampton: I was doing, these good things. And I'm, I'm standing there looking at her like, what is she talking about?

Does she have me confused with somebody else? And the judge says, I don't normally do this. I'm, I'm going to give you another chance. And we walk out of that courtroom And we're walking down the halls of the courthouse in Cincinnati and I'm like, why did you do that? You know, you just put your career in jeopardy for me.

Why? [00:13:00] And she said, I see something in you. Don't make a fool out of me. And that was it. I was, I was done. That was, um, I'm straight and narrow now. I'm not, I'm just going to be a good kid from here on out. Yeah.

Kush: I mean, that sounds like a transformation moment because you were party to somebody committing perjury, I think. And you saw this person, you know, completely go out on this limb. And maybe that, uh, you know, it just lit something in you where you're like, I cannot let this person down.

Kris Hampton: Absolutely. Yeah. I, I sort of saw it as the teachers. I, at least this is my, like my thinking, looking at it in retrospect, I think I saw it as the teachers doing their jobs and, and I knew they cared about me and I knew they helped me, were doing their jobs. And this woman. [00:14:00] Broke the law, her career and for some reason that was the thing that said, wow, this, this person believes in you than, more than your grandparents do, who were amazing people and helped me a ton, but they were my grandparents, so it was like they were doing their jobs, you know, this woman risked everything to say, I believe in this kid who I have no attachment to otherwise.

Kush: I'm curious now, did you keep in touch with that person? teacher over the years. And I'm wondering if they had a chance to see your evolution and maybe they listened to your podcast. I don't know.

Kris Hampton: Well, I did, I did keep in touch for a while. I mean, we were, we were together for four years because she was, you know, she was my probation officer through the whole thing. Um, but then years later I was actually performing in Washington, DC on New Year's Eve. I was opening up [00:15:00] for a rapper named Aesop Rock, who was kind of a famous underground rapper, still is, you know, one of the best, but, uh, I was opening up a show for him on New Year's Eve and I was at a mall. and I see her walking through the mall in Washington, DC, I went over and I said, hello, and I got the chance to say, You, you changed my life. You know, I don't think I would be standing here today if it weren't for you.

Kush: Yeah. Yeah. That is so powerful. Okay, , moving on. Um, that gave me goosebumps somehow you also managed to craft a music career and an, and a career in art, in, in crafting murals. So, by the way, like I, I mentioned, I was also at the red in the mid two thousands climbing a bit, [00:16:00] and, uh. You know, just must have missed maybe, were you, were you giving any live, uh, hip hop, uh, or singing, uh, performances at Slade

Kris Hampton: know.

Kush: back in the day?

Kris Hampton: I was, I'm bad with dates. I've, I've performed there quite a bit. Actually. Um, I performed at a lot of climbing festivals all around the country for a few years. but I don't know what the dates were that I was putting those things out. Certainly, certainly in the early two thousands, because I believe. Uh, the song that brought me here to Lander, I put out in 2007, I believe, um, maybe 2008. So I, I believe I was performing around the Red at that time.

Kush: You know, I think I, I have seen some, uh, just some maybe alternative or like, uh, rock concerts at, uh, climbing or let's say outside festivals. I haven't seen a, uh, You know, I, I wasn't fortunate enough to see your, uh, [00:17:00] performance. I'm, I'm curious, you were performing music to a mostly white, I think, white audience, I think, in those times.

And I'm curious, you know, how How was the reception you got? And then I'm also curious, like, were there things about the climbing community that you learned as you were performing with them, uh, to them, that, uh, kind of also shaped your journey into climbing in a way?

Kris Hampton: Yeah, that's a good question. Um, I, it was definitely to a mostly white audience. And it was really good reception. I never expected the reception. Uh, the first time I wrote a song about climbing, it was just as a joke. I was just, you know, it was like an exercise to, you know, to improve. And. I was having a tough time in the studio one day [00:18:00] and, uh, the guy who ran the studio, his name's Gino Black.

He's still producing artists. He was in, he's in Cincinnati and I'm in the studio and I'm like, I just, I need to loosen up. So let me do this silly song. That I've written about climbing and it was a song about off with climbing and I, I recorded the song unbeknownst to me, there were several people in the studio at the time.

I'm just in the booth by myself they're listening to what's coming through the monitors out in the control room and. They're hearing me talk about off with, and they're like, what, what is off with, like, what is he talking about? But they recognize the like, passion of it. Um, so when I walked out of the booth, they started calling me off with.

Um, I, my rap name was something totally different at the time, and that ended up getting shortened over the next few weeks to Odub, O [00:19:00] W O dub, and that name stuck as my performance name. but I put it on the internet and it, it kind of just exploded. And within the first know, maybe six months of putting a few songs out, I got a message from, uh, the marketing manager at Prana and they wanted to fly me around to events and have me perform at these climbing festivals.

And it was, I it paid for a lot of climbing trips and was, much fun and ultimately ended up, uh, it's the way I met my wife. It's the way I ended up here in Lander, Wyoming. So the, the music and rapping about climbing, which was started as a joke, um, changed my life in, in a lot of really interesting ways.

Kush: Amazing. Yeah, I've wondered how did the name ODUP [00:20:00] come about?

Kris Hampton: Mm.

Kush: it is, you know, this abbreviation a non climber came up with who, like,

Kris Hampton: Yeah.

Kush: probably people listening to this show may not know that, you know, off width climbing is this niche kind of climbing. Maybe, uh, uh, some people would say a slightly, a darker side of climbing in a funny way.

Kris Hampton: Very

Kush: And, uh,

Kris Hampton: side climbing. Yeah.

Kush: A darker, I mean, definitely, uh, uh, a cultivated love kind of climbing,

Kris Hampton: Mm hmm.

Kush: uh, one other thing about your, uh, your singing, uh, Chris. So were you singing about, so you were singing about climbing, but were you singing about Did you incorporate some of your, let's say, hardscrabble life, your interesting life? Did you bring your personal story into your singing as well?

And if you did, curious, how did that resonate again with this? I think, you know, for my, uh, Sample of one point of view from climbing those days, [00:21:00] mostly privileged, you know, uh, white male, you know, who may love listening to hip hop, but really had no idea what life was on the other side of the tracks.

Kris Hampton: Yeah, that's an interesting question because. I think to the outside listener, seemed like a similar story to most of what they were hearing in rap music at the time. Um, it wasn't by any means because I'm still, even if I was living a tough life, I was still a white kid in a society that very much, you know, helped white people along in a way that it didn't help.

People of color. So, um, it was very different in that regard, I think the, the listener who was just a casual hip hop fan or listened to it on the radio, um, saw it as a really similar story. So I did bring a lot of that in. I was, I was a rapper [00:22:00] outside of climbing way before I rapped about climbing. there was a lot of that baked into my, to my music and. People really didn't, uh, I think climbing was also still a little bit of a renegade sport. Um,

Kush: Yeah,

Kris Hampton: thought of themselves

Kush: sure, sure, true,

Kris Hampton: you know?

Kush: true.

Kris Hampton: but it's a, it's a radically different landscape now in climbing.

Kush: Yes, it is. And I think maybe people have been able to, uh, come forward more with their stories, struggles, uh, informed by, informed by everything else that they're learning. So I think there is. a capacity for the social sphere to be more accepting. I think back then, I think, you know, people would want to hang out with you and learn everything about you.

As long as in my experience, as long as you fit in and it's, it's, yeah. Okay. So we can, [00:23:00] um, yeah, I, it's such an interesting time and I'm, you know, I can't keep you all day. So just moving along a little bit, you came into climbing and at some point. Perhaps you made climbing, let's say the focal point of your life, but then you also brought, you know, and interesting again, uh, a career in art beyond music.

You were also, uh, Mural painter. Hang on. So on mural painting, I live in a city which is full of murals. Is this, uh, I'm guessing this is a legitimate, sorry, I don't know enough about mural painting. Were you being commissioned by the city or by, uh, maybe by corporations to go and paint art or was it something else?

Kris Hampton: Yes. Sometimes most of what I did was private. Um, so it was in people's homes as opposed to, uh, on, you know, in commercial spaces. [00:24:00] Um, we definitely did do projects for the city or for, um, businesses that were, you know, more public facing, but the vast majority of what we did were in high end homes.

Kush: got it. That makes sense. I mean, uh, You were not just, uh, again, uh, maybe doing something, which was you, you, this, this was, uh, within the confines of the law, lack of a better word, like you were doing, uh, like a pretty legitimate, uh, kind of thing.

Kris Hampton: hmm.

Kush: Okay. Moving on. So, uh, Chris, you discovered climbing, you know, you, I think you mentioned you got out of incarceration, you joined a climbing gym and you started.

So was there, let's say, uh, a light bulb moment Or was it more gradual when you decided to make this such an important part of your life?

Kris Hampton: Well, I think that happened much later. Actually, I, [00:25:00] I guess I saw it more as a, a way out of my current situation at first. didn't take long before I was in there every day, you know, and the, the manager of the gym at the time, his name was Chris Eklund. He, said, why don't you Vacuum the floors in the mornings and then you don't have to pay next month, you know, so I started vacuuming the floors and then eventually I worked at the gym and I was route setting at the gym, is a, you know, drastically different thing than route setting these days. but it became, it's sort of just. its way into my life, but I still, never saw it as a potential career, as a viable career, as something I could make money from this climbing industry, it was still just this hobby or passion that I had. It wasn't until much later that I [00:26:00] was already writing a training blog that had gotten pretty popular and, had already been making music and saw that, Oh, I can get.

paid to go climbing if I find a way to incorporate it with other things I'm interested in and, and then I got a shoulder injury that sort of Opened me up to, to time away from mural painting, you know, the, the government was paying me to not go to work. So, I had time to build a business and that's how it, that's how it really became like, this is, is my whole life now.

It's, it's my job. It's my passion. It's, it's everything I'm doing.

Kush: You know, a lot of people back then would write these, uh, archaic things called blogs. I had one too, I think somewhere. And, you know, because we, we just loved climbing or maybe the experiences so much, but you maybe invested a bit more in that little, uh, little hobby [00:27:00] and you took it. You took it further because maybe you realized some kind of potential in this, maybe the fact that you, you saw this audience who were, uh, learning and absorbing your content, giving you good feedback.

And I'm just sensing if there's a thread between how you were able to take maybe just, um, you know, just early beginnings as, uh, disseminating. information to what you were doing before that as a painter, as a, uh, performance artist where you are able to, you know, learn something and then you're able to kind of turn it around and provide value to others and that, and create maybe some kind of a flywheel.

I think the question really is, is that, is that correct in a way where you have some talent of being able to, uh, take something and then

Kris Hampton: I think

Kush: blow it up.

Kris Hampton: it, Kush, when you [00:28:00] said something and then, you know, pass that on to other people. That's, I, I really love learning. I love improving. whatever it is, whether it's, you know, at being an MC, whether it's performing live, whether it's making podcasts, whether it's climbing or coaching or whatever it is that I'm doing, I love the idea of getting better at it. And I want to help other people get better because I know there are lots of people out there who want to improve and, and that's, you know, I had been a, a gymnastics coach prior to being a climber. So, and that's a whole nother and a whole nother strange story of how I got into that because I was, again, one of the. lesser privileged people in the gym. You know, it's a, it's a pretty privileged sport to be able to be a gymnast. [00:29:00] And I became a gymnastics coach. And then once I was a climber, I was like, I have to treat this the same way as. gymnasts treat sport, which is you're all in, you're always trying to improve. It becomes your whole life. And that led me into writing this blog and wanting to help people improve at climbing, which just, you know, Snowballed over and over again, and it is now, this thing that, you know, employs several people and pays my bills and their bills and, know, has just become this, this really great community, um, of people interested in improving.

Mm,

Kush: Beyond your skills of being able to learn and, and give back, I also sense maybe, a high degree of empathy that you, [00:30:00] you, you have perhaps. And I, Listen to a podcast that you did with a visiting climber from India, Prerna. And, uh, you know, that struck a chord with me.

Kris Hampton: the way, congratulations, Parana, I saw she just, just got married, so congrats.

Kush: I did not know that. Uh, congratulations Prerna as well. So I noticed that, uh, you know, your questions were really good and you were able to, again, connect with Prerna, uh, in this special kind of way. I'm, I'm wondering, does your background. Coming from all of these experiences also help you connect with your clients in a similar way where you're able to see all these different shades of, uh, shades of light that people bring.

Kris Hampton: I think it does, but I don't think it did initially. Um, I was very much the, pull yourself up by your [00:31:00] bootstraps person because that's, that's how I did it. And I'm like, that's how everyone has to do it. You know, no one needs empathy to, to do it. And no one needs help. You know, I wasn't recognizing that I myself had all of this help.

I was looking at the you did this yourself kind of angle, once I, once I really internalized that and realized you had a lot of key people helping you along the way, have you ever been a key person for someone? And can you be a key person for someone? and I, I don't know if, yeah. we can purposely be that, but we can purposely put ourselves in the, in the situation where we might be that, uh, there still has to be the reception from the other person, but I do think it's a really important thing to strive for.

So, if I can provide [00:32:00] someone with a level of understanding, Or even just listening that they, they may not feel they've gotten for whatever reason. Maybe I ended up being that key person for them, or maybe I just set them on the path to find that key person. it is that they're, they need, that they're looking for, whether they know they need it or not. that's what it's come down to for me. I am very much still a like. I'm going to do it myself. I don't need help kind of a person, whether that's true or not, probably to a, definitely to a fault. I do recognize that other people. help, whether they know it or not. So, so I want to be that, I want to provide that if they're willing to accept it.

Kush: Right on. One other question about your journey, Chris, uh, as let's say an [00:33:00] entrepreneur Again, you come with a very interesting background. I don't know if you went to business school or not, or you learned any, uh, you know, I don't know any, any textbook, uh, classroom stuff on. You know, learning to build a business.

And, uh, so yeah, again, I I'm wondering if over the years you've realized

some of the unique strengths that you have brought from your, from your background, doing all these interesting things into what you are doing today. And I'm wondering if that makes you, uh, especially skilled, especially, uh, Or maybe successful in a way, because you have this, you can tap into that background and bring those learnings into your, uh, profession.

Kris Hampton: I think absolutely. Uh, have you read the book Range by David Epstein?

Kush: I need to add it to my bookshelf.

Kris Hampton: It's really fantastic. It's, it's, uh, an examination of how having a wide [00:34:00] variety of skills can help you innovate in, in other areas. And for me, I sort of modeled my business. Around the underground hip hop labels that I was familiar with, you know, I, I got to watch some of these labels, uh, Rhyme Sayers and Def Jucks and, uh, some of the major underground hip hop labels sort of come to fruition and then grow to be these juggernauts that they were and, and still are some of them. So I modeled it after that. And. And part of that model was, constantly innovating, make something new, don't do the same thing over and over and over, connect with people and, and understand that you have to nurture that relationship with those people. Um, they are the ones paying your bills. You're not paying your bills.

They are doing it for you, [00:35:00] but you have to continue communicating with them and build a level of trust for them to. to keep coming back. So for me, those were the two big lessons that I saw in underground hip hop happening that the, the people who were constantly innovating and the people who were connecting with their fans and their, their listeners and, and building a community. Um, that was, those were the people who were winning. So more than any other part of it, that's the, that was my entire education and business was, was watching that go down and now it's just figuring it out along the way and trying to break down the things that we're already doing. That's one of my great passions in life is interrogating the way we do things.

And, uh, even if something's working, I'm like, we be doing this better? Let's, let's break this apart and find a better way. [00:36:00] Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't

Kush: Interesting point there and I'm wondering, did you use any self interrogation techniques on yourself? Because on one hand you bring these unique strengths into your, into your business and your lifestyle today. But were there a couple of things you realize, you know what, I did not go to, let's say a conventional place to pick up these skills to, to, to be able to grow.

And I need to go and, and this is, let's say, uh, a weakness I have, and I have to go and learn these and apply them.

Kris Hampton: absolutely all the time. and I think I'm not necessarily good at it. Um, uh, I'm lucky to have my wife. My partner is good at pointing those things out in a really loving way. I am much more straightforward in your face. When I point things out, she's really good at knowing that I'm going to turn defensive when those [00:37:00] things are pointed out.

So she does it in a really careful way, caring way, I should say. Um, but when it comes to. Sports and business and things that aren't just my, my like personality, I'm really good at interrogating myself and, and trying to decide if I can do it better. And I, I think the, the one thing, and I wrote about this, maybe my entire book, the hard truth is about this is the, how can you tell the difference between reasons and excuses? And. Because they're very often intertwined in a way that's hard to separate, you know, and then act on the excuses. How can you get rid of those excuses? And that's how I was, I, I spend a lot of time saying, am I making excuses or is this actually a reason?

Kush: You have a very interesting, let's say, uh, uh, palette of things that you do, you know, between [00:38:00] the things I do know about, I heard your podcast and you have more than one, and you also have a coaching business and maybe some other things. So, uh, what pays the bills

Kris Hampton: Uh, certainly the coaching business pays the bills. Um, the, the Power Company podcast is our biggest. Marketing asset. So, so in a way that pays the bills, you know? Um, but it funnels through the, the coaching business. all of the other things are passion projects that make money. I, I'm very lucky to have been able to cultivate a life where my, the people who've paid attention to the things that I do, trust me enough that I can do something different and they'll still support it.

Kush: right on. And Yes, I think for sure. Like once you build credibility in one [00:39:00] thing and, uh, people will see value and at least give us a drive and we do something more left field. Tell us a bit more about your coaching philosophy. How do you train your clients? Who are these people who come to you? And maybe a couple of ways in which let's say your coaching school is.

Not better or worse, but just different than some of the other ones out there.

Kris Hampton: Yeah, I think. Generally speaking, my philosophy is you have to coach the individual. Um, doesn't mean everyone's training needs to look excessively different. Um, it just means. You have to understand that, we are humans with emotions and problems and real [00:40:00] lives and jobs and families and all of these other responsibilities. So, the, The optimal way to say your finger strength may not be the optimal way for this person because they don't have the time for that or the energy for that because they have a demanding job or, or whatever. My coaching philosophy is do the best you can with what you have to reach your goals and to, to quote a strength coach whose work I really admire, Dan John, the goal is to keep the goal, the goal.

If you. If you want to climb better, your goal should be to continue having that as the goal, uh, and not get sidetracked by all of the pretty new toys and new protocols and new optimizations and all of these other things. You have [00:41:00] to do what works for you to reach your goals. that goal, whatever it is.

Kush: Makes sense. Chris, how do you work with your clients? Uh, what kind of, programming do you offer? If let's say I'm, you know, a climber who needs help. And in my case, let's say I live in on the other coast. how would I benefit the most if you are able to find time to work with me?

Kris Hampton: we have a bunch of different ways. We have entry level which are that we, pretty regularly on, um, what we think are the best protocols that work for people generally when we're talking training for climbing. And I've looked for patterns over A lot of years of doing this of what does it take to climb 512?

What does it take to Boulder and we've tried to distill those patterns into these training plans. Um, so at whatever [00:42:00] level you're at on your journey, we have a starting point and then next steps as well. And we also have those eBooks available on an app that you can also buy. Um, communication with a coach so that they can help you work through struggles in your scheduling or tactics for your project or, um, uh, head space that you're in, that's not the best for you, whatever that means, um, can purchase time talking to a coach while you're training. and then we also have totally customized training plans for people with really unique situations where you can work one on one with a coach. Um, and then courses as well. So, uh, depending on what it is you want to learn, we have that you can go through, um, and those are just. Filled with far too many hours of video because I have a really hard time, [00:43:00] not just adding to the courses constantly. so, so there's a bunch of different ways to get engaged initially.

Kush: In your approach to training, I've heard that you, you know, you give importance to becoming a better climber overall.

Kris Hampton: Mm hmm.

Kush: And I'm curious, uh, can movement and similar skills, can they be taught in a remote virtual?

Kris Hampton: sure.

Kush: Because Because I can, you know, I've, I've had, uh, a couple of remote coaches over the years and yes, you know, one can get a really good prescribed program, you know, do these things on a weekly basis.

But I haven't been as successful at having somebody coach me through improving my My movement skills and some things which are very subtle that I'm not thinking about, you know, I don't know, pushing more with my feet. For example, I see youth teams at the [00:44:00] climbing gym and I'm sometimes a little bit envious that they get such hands on training and they are able to point out like very specific things.

So can some of those things actually be provided in a remote plan?

Kris Hampton: Yeah, I think so. It does put a lot of onus onto the climber to bring to the sessions. whereas a coach in person is going to be able to sort of direct that intention a little better. So if you have the ability to work with a coach in person specifically for movement things, tactical things, I think that's a really powerful way to go. However, I, I've spent. The last few years down, uh, a rabbit hole of motor learning and I've read all of the research. I've spent a lot of time talking to some of the top researchers and motor learning [00:45:00] trying to understand how we could better help climbers learn to move and, and how we can self manage.

Assess our movement. Um, and I, I just released, uh, the first cohort of a course that I put together on movement skills and how to assess your movement skills. and once this first cohort is done, it sold out in the first two hours, the first 50 spots sold out in two hours. And once this cohort is done, I'll make adjustments to it and release it. to everybody, um, evergreen on the website. So, so I think it's very possible, but it does require that the climber engages in it, is intentional about it and gives it time. you know, movement skills take time. I think as climbers, we get sort of tricked by having someone

Kush: [00:46:00] Um,

Kris Hampton: Oh, put your foot here. instead of where you're putting it. And then we put our foot there and we do the move. And we're like, wow, that was magic. You know, I want that all the time. That's not really improving your movement skills. You just, you just did it a different way that time. That was all. Um, you may not recognize why you needed to do it that way.

You may not recognize it the next time you come across a situation like that. I want to help people explore in the right way, uh, within their movement practice and. And be more intentional about it. So it takes time, takes intention. That's always going to be on the climber. We try to promote it, but it's always going to be on the climber.

Kush: and when you say on the clamber, it means, uh, are we just videoing ourselves? Uh, uh, you know, prodigiously with every session and sharing some of that, uh, with the coach and [00:47:00] looking for feedback and,

Kris Hampton: through the motions. You're going to get the same thing you got from the last time you did those motions, you know, it's going

Kush: um,

Kris Hampton: there has to be some intention to put yourself into uncomfortably challenging situations. Um, that's how we learn. So, uh, if you're not doing that, uh, it's, it's impossible to continue improving.

Kush: sure. Chris, uh, uh, a lot of the listeners and the focus of this podcast is to try to inspire, uh, let's say older athletes to continue to, uh, push themselves. I'm curious as to what are some of the most common. Let's say performance hindrances you see with older ~climate ~climbers coming your way. And what are some of the common things that, uh, you advise them to work on?

Kris Hampton: Well, I, I know, uh, I've listened to quite a few of your episodes, and I know a [00:48:00] lot of people, you know, are, are really interested in the, the training side, the nutrition side, and I think there's something, and I'm interested in those things as well, and they're, they're hugely important, but I think the number one thing that holds back, uh, athletes who are getting older are responsibilities. you have a family, you have a job, you, your energy is lower, you know, you don't have as much, as much go for it when you finally do have time, because you've spent time, Cutting the grass and, you know, repainting your kid's bedroom and all of these other things.

Kush: I

Kris Hampton: you know, and this is what I meant earlier when I said reasons and excuses are often intertwined, that, um, Yes, those are reasons they, they are reasons, but can we move those things around in a way?

Can we [00:49:00] have a, a conversation with our partner saying, for these next two months, I would really love to focus on my own climbing, my own sport. Can you pick up the slack for these two months while I really go for it? And then I'll return the favor. And, and I'll pick up the slack for a couple of months while you focus on this thing you want to do. I think we have to have those conversations. We have to consider, is this a reason or is it an excuse? Am I just saying, Oh, I can't get out because I'm probably gonna have more chores to do. Is there a way to offload those chores somehow? Can you hire a kid to cut your grass and, you know, pay for somebody to come and paint the kid's room? Is there a way? to get rid of that excuse, even though it's a valid reason, you might still be using it as an excuse. And I think that's the number one thing that holds people back who [00:50:00] are getting older, maybe other than belief. Belief is a tough thing to come upon, you know, so. Seeing someone else do it first is really important and you, and I think we're in a great place with the internet and with podcasts like this, where we can seek out the people who are also doing it and really gain some inspiration and some motivation from those people that it's actually possible.

Kush: mean, that is, uh, a keystone point, time management, structure, and not letting those reasons slash excuses, you know, get in the way at prioritizing what is important. And if it is your training, then one needs to make that, uh, priority. an important part of one's life. What if somebody is motivated and has made the time, but that person finds that there are some things that the person doesn't do well with, let's say, let's say [00:51:00] movement.

We were talking about, uh, that a second ago. I think I've heard you talk. In fact, I heard of your conversation with I

Kris Hampton: Mm hmm.

Kush: performance rock climbing back when, and it was fascinating to, um, hear of how the Japanese in this case, you know, they train differently and, maybe they're doing things which are boring, but also foundational.

I think you talked about like some hip stuff, moving with the hips and whatnot. And are there some things that, um. You see, again, older climbers doing like, I think you did a lot of time with trad routes. I did a lot of time hanging on jugs, you know, back in the East coast crags. And I find that it is difficult for me to break out of some of those habits of, let's say, moving statically on a wall for, uh, as one illustration.

So are there, Things such as this, that you find older climbers doing where, you know, for the same, same amount of time in the [00:52:00] gym, you know, one can be more productive and one can just get more leverage.

Kris Hampton: I, I've, I'm not spending a lot of time in commercial gyms these days, but I was spending more time in commercial gyms, I saw a lot of people, older climbers going into the gym and treating it exactly like they do a day at the crag. Um, And if you're just going in for social reasons and to have fun, that's great. But if your goal is to improve, have to separate from performance, um, training from performance. Um, if you're going outside and trying hard things at the crag, don't just go indoors and do the exact same thing. You have to try to to do the things in the gym you don't have access to when you're climbing outside. Um, try to improve the things in the gym by getting uncomfortable, by pushing [00:53:00] yourself, uh, in ways that you don't when you're performing. Those things are going to make you better. And, and frankly, I think, I hate to say this, but I think it's true, is that, The older we get, the more closed minded we are, you know, I would love to say that we're more open minded and in some ways we are, we get stuck in our ways.

We get, we, they turn habitual. This is the way we do it. This is the way I improved when I was in my twenties. This is the way I'm going to improve now. It's not going to work anymore. You know, things run their course and we have to switch things up. And, and if we're open minded to new things, um, we stand a lot better chance.

Thanks. Of improving, uh, and frankly being happier, you know, I see a lot of, I see a lot of old grumpy climbers out there attached to the way climbing was 10 years ago, 20 years ago, and not able to be happy about it anymore. [00:54:00] So keep an open mind just because the way you tried to train your fingers five years ago, 10 years ago, didn't work.

It doesn't mean this new way isn't going to work. So try things, see what works, separate your training and your practice from your performance. I think you'll be fine. You'll improve, uh, initially after that, it's going to take really diving into the weeds a little bit. And, I think that's where coaches and trainers come in, especially for the busy adult who doesn't have tons of time to dig into the literature and the, the million podcasts that are out there about training of which I am a, I am part of the problem, you know, um, put, we put so much information out there.

It's hard to sort through. And I know that, and you know, maybe that's job security for me, because that's where a coach comes in a huge benefit is they've [00:55:00] already sorted through it for you. Yeah,

Kush: With, you know, with age, sometimes there are, uh, injuries and I, yes, and I think I, I again, uh, remember hearing that you suffer, uh, a bad shoulder injury yourself. I'm curious if there's any lessons we can take from you on overcoming a what might be, let's say, career ending injuries and turning those around and still maybe surpassing your prior peaks and coming out

Kris Hampton: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'll, I'll kind of give you the numbers here. Um, I climbed my first 514 at 40 and that was with, uh, an injured shoulder and then it. It was, it got worse, um, throughout that process. And I had shoulder surgery shortly after I climbed my first 514. And then, [00:56:00] at 42, my first V10 at 45, my first V11. And I haven't put a ton of time back into sport climbing. That's what I'm doing now. I'm trying to reach 105 13s I turned 50. I'm at 90 right now. so, and I've climbed up to 13D, after turning 45. So, so I'm not far off of my peak in terms of performance. Um, but in terms of injury, which is going to happen. Uh, and anybody who's trying to push their limits physically are certainly going to get injured. It's a really tough line tow, you know, obviously we can do lots of things like better strength training, better nutrition, um, to, to try to stave off some of that injury, but it's going to happen. one thing I see people getting really wrong when they're [00:57:00] Dialing into the details of their training and, and, and trying to perform better is not getting enough rest and we can't be afraid of rest. It seems counterproductive to rest. Like, I don't, I don't want to take time away from going out and. Trying to send something or going to the gym and training because I have limited time. I'm, I'm almost 50 years old. My time is limited. That's how we think. Right. but those rest days are, are building you back up, preparing you for the next hard day.

And if you aren't resting, you're never getting really high intensity. High quality work in, so rest is such a massive part of it, whether that's between sessions, whether it's sleeping at night and figuring out a way to get better sleep, which I will tell you right now is hard with a two year old, but [00:58:00] getting better sleep, getting better rest, um, recovering better, that's the, that's the place I see them making the big error in their training. sure.

Kush: Yeah, I know that message seems consistent from a lot of people that I speak with and not just climbing coaches, but just, uh, you know, experts from all across, uh, the fields of human performance, which is some of those foundations with sleep, et cetera, the injuries, let's say with you and with you as case in point, you had this bad shoulder injury and then you have, uh, you know, remarkably managed to exceed, uh, Or meet exceed prior, uh, uh, performance goals.

What helped you get past your short range? He was it, uh, You really good, uh, doctors. Really good, uh, physiotherapy. Just, uh, a lot of time spent in making your body stronger. [00:59:00] Curious, what has, what lessons can we get from you?

Kris Hampton: Yeah. I think it's a little of both of those things. Um, but with the doctor specifically, I would say, I did have some really great doctors, and physical therapists, but I also advocated for myself in those situations. And I think that's something a lot of people miss that the doctors don't know everything about you.

They, they might know everything the book says about a specific injury, but they don't know everything about you. And, um, I knew there was something catastrophically wrong with my shoulder. And I went to the first doctor I went to, which was just my general doc to, you know, get a prescription to go to the, the orthopedic doc. She said, it's just tendonitis she did the normal tests for a 40 year old person to say, you actually injured? And she said, Nope, it's just tendonitis. And I was like, no, it's not. I, [01:00:00] need to see someone has a more informed opinion of this. and she sent me to an orthopedist and he said the same thing.

It's just tendonitis. And I said, no, it's not. I'm, you're giving me this strength test. I'm stronger than you. You can't push my hands down, even if I'm injured, period. Like you didn't ask if it hurt. It hurt a lot to resist, but you just told me to resist. So that's what I did. I need. I need to either another opinion and x ray and MRI.

I need whatever the next step is to see what's wrong with this shoulder. And finally they, they said, Oh, you're right. Your shoulder's totally destroyed. We need to do a surgery. and you know, not everyone needs a surgery. I'm not saying that, but advocate for what you believe and what you think you need. And then have a conversation with them about. you're totally misinformed, but you'll never know if you're not [01:01:00] advocating for yourself. So I think that part's really important. Um, and I did that all the way through my physical therapy. My physical therapist was great. She was also a climber, and, and really.

Let me take a lot of the lead in how we're doing things, you know, and she would just pull me back in the right direction if I was going somewhere else and make sure I got the things I need, I advocated for myself and, and then beyond the, the doctors. I continued the physical therapy from, you know, at first it was really light loads because that's all I could tolerate. Um, and then rather than stick with that typical physical therapy, light loads and bands type of work, I knew I was stronger. I knew I've been weightlifting since I was, 15 years old, knew I could do more. I talked to my physical therapist. I did more. And then I just continued that on throughout. [01:02:00] And once I was released from therapy, it was still, I'm still strength training a lot right now, because I need this to get back to where it was. so, you know, strength training is best injury reduction that we have. I won't say it's injury prevention because I don't think we can ever prevent it. But. It's the best chance of injury reduction we have, and it's the best, uh, it's the closest thing we have to a fountain of youth, um, and we need to make ourselves. more robust if we want to do more intense, more challenging things. So strength training was such a massive part of coming back from that injury and not listening to the people who just say, you know, you have to baby this injury. I don't think that's true at all.

Kush: I hear two, a couple of things very clearly. One is being your own [01:03:00] advocate. And you have to because, uh, many of the, yeah, medical specialists that I see. I have to be careful about because they will, unless they are pushed, they will treat you as just another, um, another patient who comes through the door, not understanding some of the unique, uh, stresses and demands that, uh, let's say a rock climber, another, like, let's say niche athlete puts on their system.

And the second thing, of course, is strength training acting as perhaps a shield of armor, which can, you know, go a long way towards protecting us, uh, from, from more damage. Uh, right, right. You know,

Kris Hampton: injury, um, from mural painting with my arms above my head. You know, for many, many hours a day, it was just an overuse shoulder injury. [01:04:00] Then add that to climbing. It was a problem. for my physical therapist, who I told you was a climber, I just said, What's the goal? Like, what's the goal of my physical therapy that the government says, because they're paying for my, my rehab, what is the government's goal here? And she's like, for you to get back to work. And I said, well, what's that mean? And she said, you need this level of strength. You know, these are the markers we're looking for. And I said, that's not good enough. I, am not interested in how do I get back to work? Okay. That's, that's just step one. So even, even if we're not continuing this physical therapy, are my next steps? How do I get this back to as robust as it was, or as close to as robust as it was when I was 16 or 17 years old? You know, that's what I'm looking for. [01:05:00] and she helped me lay out that plan. Um, while the, you know, government or insurance or whatever it is, is paying for it so that I know what to do next once I'm released from all of that. And, unless you're advocating for yourself. the goal might be something you're not okay with.

Kush: those patient intake forms that they have you fill when you go to doctor's office, they seem so antiquated because they keep referencing things back to work. I you know, they get modernized because I mean, the word, the term work is such a ambiguous term. I mean, it should be closer to, are you able to achieve, let's say desired performance outcomes,

Kris Hampton: Whatever

Kush: from your,

Kris Hampton: is.

Kush: yeah, exactly.

And, uh, I'm sure many, many people listening, uh, you know, have that classic story where they went to a doctor of physiotherapy and. Physiotherapy said, Oh, you know what? You have knee issues or ankle issues. Well, you should [01:06:00] stop running. You have shoulder issues. You should stop surfing or climbing. So it just, you know, defeats a lot of these things.

So, uh, one other question here is, uh, knock on wood sounds like your shoulder has gotten back to full function. I'm curious if any imaging that you have done, if you've had done recently is somewhat, let's say. Contra indicative, where, what I'm asking is, you know, often we find climbers and whatnot, you know, they will have, you know, um, MRIs and imaging that looks like crazy, right?

But because the dint of hard work, advocacy, all of that stuff, they're able to somehow surprise the audience. Not, not just themselves, but also their specialists.

Kris Hampton: Yeah. I haven't had any imaging done, but I will tell you that, you know, within the like shoulder reconstruction I had done, um, we knew my labrum was [01:07:00] destroyed. We knew my bicep tendon was destroyed. and we just didn't even worry about the labrum. You know, I was like, let's, let's reattach the bicep tendon, the labrum.

I've, I've read enough studies at this point that I know I can, I can perform just fine, and it might make it even worse if we worry about, you know, trying to repair that labrum. So that's probably been that way for a decade. We can just leave that alone. but I haven't had any imaging done. And honestly, I, I don't think, I mean, my shoulders are so healthy at this point.

In fact, that one is the, the more healthy of the two. Um, I would say occasionally I have pains in the other shoulder, but almost never in that shoulder. um, but I would bet if it were looked at, uh, in an MRI, they would look like they're completely useless. Shoulders, because they've probably just been, they've been beat up [01:08:00] so much. 

Kush: do you have maybe one or two stories of clients, again, let's say older masters athletes that you can share with us where the work they did with you or the work they did with themselves to maybe reach or surpass their, goals, which were just transformational, where even, even you were like, wow, I mean, I did not expect this person to bounce back and now look at this person.

Kris Hampton: Yeah. You know what? There are so many, it's hard to, hard to narrow it down to a couple. I'll tell you one story and then I'll think on the other, but, One of my clients that I've worked with for a long time, her name is Abby, I started working with her, I think we've now been through two pregnancies, two babies. Um, I started working with her, I believe when she was pregnant, she might have gotten pregnant shortly [01:09:00] after we started working together. But she's just, she's a hard worker and she's just continued to improve through both pregnancies, both kids, working through all of that. Um, continued improving at sport climbing, her, her levels have just gotten higher and higher even with, Less and less time available, you know, and then just recently she, she switched into track climbing.

She got really excited about track climbing and, and has really dove first into learning that, which is, which is hard for someone who's climbing, you know, upper 512 to say, wow, this 510 is really hard for me. You know, I think that's

Kush: Wow.

Kris Hampton: challenging thing to do I think the thing I'm most proud of is how excited she is [01:10:00] when she learned something new and does a 5.

11, you know, where, where 5. 11 was barely a warm up grade for her sport climbing. Now she's learning new things and is just as excited about it as she is doing her hardest grade. So for me, that's a, a massive win is to, to work with someone through all of these, you know, challenges of real life and then still have them about the learning process, as opposed to just, I need to push the next grade, whatever that 

Kush: Sure. Absolutely. That is certainly inspiring one, not just for, uh, somebody like somebody who fits her profile, but for, for all of us, uh, maybe one other story.

Kris Hampton: Yeah, uh, another client of mine who I've worked with for a lot of years, his name's John. [01:11:00] He doesn't climb outdoors much, um, and is not terribly interested in climbing outdoors. Um, but he started, I believe in his forties, he might've been late thirties when he started climbing he's another one who will just dive into the details and really wants to learn and gets really excited about learning new things. He's now been teaching his daughter to climb and he's coached some other folks as well. what he does that. I've really enjoyed working with him through is he sort of dove into bouldering indoors, I think most, you know, most folks in their, uh, upper thirties into their forties are more inclined to just sport climbing door indoors and is for the kids, you know, and we've really worked a lot on being more explosive and, climbing more like a [01:12:00] boulder.

And he's really leaned into it. And he just sent his hardest boulders in our last performance phase. We, even though he's climbing indoors, we break it up into, we're going to train for a block. We're going to perform for a block and, and see what we can do performance wise. And, and he just, I think he's in his mid forties now.

I don't know exactly where, uh, 45 or 46 and just did his hardest boulder in the gym just a few weeks ago. So, those. Those people with real lives, real jobs, trying to push their limits and, and leaning into the learning side of it. Those are the most important stories for me. You know, I've, I've worked with professional athletes and, and those are rewarding, but it's the, it's the people with real lives, real jobs that I, I really love working with.

Kush: The everyday [01:13:00] athlete who cannot jack it all to live on the road. And, uh,

Kris Hampton: Yeah, I've been a weekend warrior or there abouts, you know, for my entire career, uh, as a climber, you know, I probably average days a month outside on my best months. Um, but partly because I, I love doing other things as well. I, I would also want to be in inside writing a, uh, climbing history podcast and, you know, making music for that as I would. Going outside and climbing. So, I also appreciate that other people have, have similar lives and and hobbies that they want to pursue as well. So I love the, the weekend warrior or the person with limited time.

Kush: Chris, one thing that, you know, I marvel at is the, I mean, maybe you're seeming at least from the outside ability to, Juggle so many fronts, you know,

Kris Hampton: [01:14:00] Hmm.

Kush: yeah, business, podcasts, education, father, all of those things, uh, any hard won strategies that you've had on being able to manage these things and still stay motivated to go and, uh, uh, get your, you know, your hundred, uh, 513 in the next couple of months.

Kris Hampton: Yeah, I'll. I'll reiterate what I said earlier, and that's that the goal is to keep the goal, the goal, you know, the quote from Dan John, that's, it's driven, or it's at least pointed me in the right direction for so much of my life, the last, know, five, six years, I want to. Enjoy climbing. I want to keep improving in some way, shape or form. There's going to come a point where I'm not going to climb my hardest route again, or my hardest boulder again, you know, but that doesn't mean I can't find other goals within that one big goal of [01:15:00] keep enjoying climbing and keep improving. Um, Maybe I'll do more of a certain grade. Maybe I'll do this many new climbs in a year, or whatever that is. Um, the goal is to keep doing it. improving it. And, and to do that, I think the one big hard one takeaway is keep interrogating it. You know, keep, keep looking for a better way. Keep looking for a way to improve. whatever that means to you. Um, and maybe broaden your definition of what improvement is well.

We get, we get wrapped up in the metrics and eventually, especially if you're an older athlete, those things are going to start to decline at some point. Make sure your metrics are a little age proof, you know, um, enjoyment for me is age proof. So,

Kush: Sure.

Kris Hampton: the main goal. And right now, enjoyment is tied very much in with, [01:16:00] with climbing hard things, um, trying hard physically, but that doesn't mean it will always be tied in with that.

Kush: Yeah, yeah, I know. Uh, I can appreciate that. Uh, question, question everything, uh, including the goal itself. 

Kris Hampton: Absolutely. Be willing to change, be willing to shift gears and pivot whenever you need to. I

Kush: you know, you've had a great career and you seem to be doing many things, right. I'm wondering if there are a couple of areas that you find that you could be doing better in. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm.

Kris Hampton: a better partner to my wife, for sure. I know that to be the case, and it's something I'm, I'm actively working on. I, I'm, it's built into me. Uh, and I knew this going in to having this second, second child. I knew going in that with the first one, I made the [01:17:00] mistake of I'm the provider. I need to work more.

You know, we have an amazing relationship. We're really, really close, but I know. that I spent too much time worrying about work, um, when she was younger. I'm trying not to make that mistake this time, but I'm also diving headfirst into how can I be the best dad I can be now that I'm more secure, more stable. Less self involved, you know, than I was when I was in my twenties. how can I recognize the tender moments with this baby? so I'm, I'm doing a great job of being the best dad I can be, but in trying to, you know, do that and run a business and climb, definitely been some, some things I could do better as a partner.

So that's number one, for sure. Number two. And this is one I've said I could probably do better [01:18:00] for a long time, and I think I have gotten better at it, but I'm, I don't think I'm still good at it, and that's my nutrition. I still, I still default quite often to eating just to live, like just to survive. You know, I will get wrapped up in work and forget to eat. Um, if it weren't for my wife, she's out of town this week. it's like, you know, it'll be four o'clock in the afternoon. And I'm like, wow, I haven't eaten since eight o'clock this morning, you know, because I get wrapped up in the things I love doing and I forget to eat. So that's an area where I could see some real improvement is just being more consistent with my nutrition.

Kush: Well, you are no longer living under a swing. And a playground.

Kris Hampton: That's true. Yeah, it's definitely better than it was then.

Kush: And yeah, those tender [01:19:00] moments, you know, they start with, yeah. Just sharing, uh, Cheerios and fortified, , milk in the morning. All those are special moments.

Kris Hampton: I love it

Kush: Yeah. Chris, maybe a couple of sacrifices that, uh, you have made conscious ones to build this life

Kris Hampton: I'm glad you, you said sacrifices. I actually the word balance. Um, you know, I'm trying to find this balance in my life. That balance doesn't, for me at least, does not exist. It's, always a compromise. It's always a sacrifice. And, um, number one for me, which is an interesting one, is that. When my wife came to me a couple of years ago and said, I want to have a baby, you know, clock is ticking.

I don't know if you're too old now to have a baby. We need to figure that out. And I'm thinking [01:20:00] my daughter is 25 years old at this point. My granddaughter is Am I in a position to have a again? You know, am I in a position to have this child? I'm really loving just being able to focus on business and my climbing, you know, and And I knew it was going to be a sacrifice to my climbing and to, to the business goals that I had, uh, at least, uh, they, they would get pushed out if I got to them at all, you know, that goal might change. That was a big one. Um, it's become one of the best sacrifices I've ever made for sure. Uh, I didn't expect it to be as amazing as it is the second time around. So, so it's a sacrifice. I'm really happy that I made

Kush: Hmm

Kris Hampton: the other [01:21:00] one. I would say, I know that I could be a better climber if I a regular job and, went climbing, you know, if I didn't have to worry about business, if I wasn't completely addicted to making new things and. You know, reimagining how we're doing things. know that if I just worked a 40 hour a week job, I would be a better climber. I would have more time to go climbing. but I love making things and I

Kush: Yeah,

Kris Hampton: reimagining and interrogating and innovating. And I, I have to do it. It's, it's, It's more important to me than food is as, as we just discussed. So I have to do it. It's a sacrifice to do it because I know I could be a better climber. I [01:22:00] know I could climb harder things. I had more days outside, more, more time mentally away from all of these things I want to create.

Kush: you're perhaps your seeds of creativity and of quite early with the things that you got into. So those are probably, uh, things that you are just ready to Chris at this

point, you know, you, you, it's just such an inherent part of you. Yeah. one. Yeah. One, one other question. Somebody gave you this. profound gift when you were young by allowing you to get out of the, the legal prison system, maybe a new lease. If I may,

Kris Hampton: hmm.

Kush: I'm curious, what is the greatest gift that you may have given somebody else?[01:23:00] 

Kris Hampton: Oof. I would have to say, um, giving the sounds don't like saying it this way, but this is what I'm going to say. Um, giving the gift to my wife of her being a parent. Um, it was not I didn't need to be a parent again. Um, I had done it. I had done the best I could at it and I did a pretty damn good job of it, but I didn't need to do it again. She really wanted it. and, and like I said before, I love it. I am, I am absolutely it's, it's the greatest, it's the greatest gift I gave myself too, um, but I gave it to her initially, so I think that's it for me.

Kush: The gift that you, uh, granted somebody else had this beautiful way of [01:24:00] perhaps, uh, resonating back into your own being. Chris, nearing the end of our time, you've been so so patient. A couple of fun questions before we, uh, Wrap it up.

Kris Hampton: do it.

Kush: You mentioned how you are, let's say, uh, not as focused on, on meals, but what is a food that you could eat every day?

Kris Hampton: Uh, there's, I'll give you two pizza. In almost any form. Um, I love it. And strangely enough, Chef Boyardee spaghetti and meatballs. I could eat it just about every meal every day if I had to.

Kush: Sure. , have you bought into, uh, you know, the, the new kinds of, let's say plant food inspired pizzas. Like I have a couple of cauliflower crusts sitting in my freezer. Yeah.

Kris Hampton: I love them. Pizza is one of my [01:25:00] favorite crag foods, actually. I'll just, I'll just take a pizza and load it up with vegetables and cook it and take it to the crag with me. Um, but the cauliflower crust pizzas, I prefer at home because the crust doesn't stay crispy at all when you take it to the crag.

It gets really soft, but I do love them at home. I love the like thin cauliflower crust pizzas.

Kush: Yeah, yeah, delicious. What is perhaps one simple, maybe a mundane thing that you do almost every day? Every day that gives you outsized value.

Kris Hampton: Ooh, a mundane thing I do almost every day that gives me outsized value. This is a good question. Um, I learned this from a book called Work Clean by one of my [01:26:00] favorite hip hop writers, Dan Charnas. Um, This book was about high level chefs and how they their kitchens and organize their lives as a result of the way they organize their kitchens because they have to, they don't have the luxury of making a thing and spending a lot of time on it. have to make a thing and put it out it gets immediately criticized, you know, and I love this idea. So, One of the things I do every day that I think sets the stage for being my best self the next day, it came from that book and that's at the end of the day, I organize my workspace and clean it so that it starts the same way every day. And I have one post it note of the tasks I'm going to finish tomorrow and, and that's it. and that way, when I get to my [01:27:00] workspace the next day, I have all of my tasks on this post it note that I wrote the end of a day so that I'm not overambitious about what I can get done. And it's starting the same way every day.

And for me, that. That really sets me up for being productive.

Kush: That is a powerful habit. I try and do something similar. I like to make a little, little cheat sheet of, uh, things I want to accomplish the next day, and I've learned over time to temper down. My expectations,

Kris Hampton: Mm

Kush: but if I have something to start off for the next morning, I think it helps bring some structure to my day.

And, uh, yeah, final question, Chris, you are like me, you know, you obviously geek out on climbing literature, climbing media. What is perhaps one book, just one book that you would recommend to Somebody listening. And [01:28:00] also, what is maybe one piece of, uh, climbing media in forms of, let's say, a, a climbing video channel or a climbing movie that also

Kris Hampton: Mm

Kush: you would like to, uh, share out

Kris Hampton: Can I say my own book? Um,

Kush: own book and

Kris Hampton: okay. So my book, The Hard Truth, I think is, uh, will help you interrogate your, your own methods. Uh, and I think that's something we should all be doing. I really love climbing biographies. most of them are terrible be honest, but I read Steve McClure's biography recently, uh, autobiography, I guess.

That's when you write it yourself, right? Um, I read Steve McClure's in preparation for season one of Written in Stone, and [01:29:00] the best climbing, uh, autobiography I've ever read. It was amazing. I can't remember the name of it off the top of my head, um, but incredible. So go read it. Yeah,

Kush: at remembering names too, but I also read, uh, Steve McClure's, uh, memoir, biography, whatever, a a, a few years ago. And I loved it. And one of the things I think that stood out to me was how understated Steve is. As a writer, like he was going out and doing astounding things, pushing the envelope for climbers worldwide, but he would, you know, knock it off as just whatever, another day at the crack.

And yeah, just as adventures of traveling the world and finding himself in all kinds of like random places and, uh, you know, winning competitions and doing FAs. I mean, he, he, he has a gift for, uh, being funny and inspiring and, you know, Yeah, just, uh, just really good. Another book, actually, I would recommend, uh, if you enjoyed that one is, uh, [01:30:00] Revelations by Jerry Moffat.

Kris Hampton: Yeah.

Kush: that's already in your, uh,

Kris Hampton: I've read that one. I'm actually, um, I haven't said this to anyone yet. So this is, this is new. season two of written in stone Jerry Moffitt will play very heavily as a character in the season. And I'll be interviewing, uh, Niles Grime, his, the co writer for, Revelations.

So,

Kush: yeah, Jerry is so inspiring. Yeah. Love, love, love all of those British icons from like back in the day. And maybe, yeah, maybe one, uh, I don't know if you find any time at all to watch, uh, any climbing media, but if you do perhaps, uh, which channel or which movie do you, uh, could you return to?

Kris Hampton: okay. I love, I'm going to give you two. I love.

Kush: Mmm.

Kris Hampton: Mina. think uh, about Mina Leslie Wujastic. Um, that might [01:31:00] be my favorite climbing film. there's a new one coming out, uh, very soon. Uh, it's, it's being shown here and there. I emceed the, the grand opening in Salt Lake City called Dear Mother.

Um, about, uh, Cody Cameron. He's a transracial adoptee climber. Uh, it's kind of his story. John Glassberg produced it and I think it's, uh, really brilliant. I would say my favorite channel though, the one I just keep going to is Adam Andra's channel. I think he's so, they're putting out incredible content.

It's like, it's like a real rock film

Kush: Yeah. Yeah.

Kris Hampton: And, and he's gotten to be so and he explores the history

Kush: Mm hmm.

Kris Hampton: You know, I, I gave him his flowers for this when I had him on the, the first season of written in stone, [01:32:00] because I really just think his channel is a, a gift to the climbing community.

Kush: Yeah, yeah, getting, uh, getting like a window seat into maybe the greatest performer, perhaps in the climbing world we have and, uh,

Kris Hampton: It's incredible.

Kush: seeing his struggle and seeing all of that in really high quality cinematography. I mean, wow. Yeah, for sure. I'm right there with you. It's amazing. Chris, we will wait for season two for sure.

We will put links to your website. ~And also links to where people can find your book. Any other parting, uh, notes before we end the show today?~

Kris Hampton: ~Hmm. Nothing we haven't talked about, I don't think. Um, you know, I know this is the ageless athlete and all I can say is just keep, keep going. Keep pushing, whatever that means, um, for you, you know, there's so much more possible, uh, than, than athletes have been given credit for, for a lot of years, um, so just keep at it, you know, and if no one else has done it, break the mold.~

~That's,~

Kush: ~Amazing,~ Chris. Thank you so much. Thanks for coming on the show today.

Kris Hampton: Yeah, thanks for having me. Uh, this was great.

​