#3 Between Two Worlds — Dual Athlete, and Choosing a Bigger Mission

WEBVTT

00:01:17.799 --> 00:01:19.919
Friends, welcome back.

00:01:20.324 --> 00:01:28.574
Welcome back to the Ageless Athlete Podcast, where we tap into secrets and stories of age defying, high performing athletes.

00:01:29.754 --> 00:01:34.424
Today on the show, I have the rare privilege of meeting with Dr.

00:01:34.474 --> 00:01:42.854
Kevin Starr, accomplished rock climber, big wave surfer, and social enterprise CEO.

00:01:44.054 --> 00:01:48.764
Growing up in San Diego, Kevin fell in love with both the mountains and the ocean.

00:01:49.530 --> 00:02:01.530
Started hiking and climbing around California and went on to accomplish daring alpine ascents in the Himalayas, Peru and beyond.

00:02:03.199 --> 00:02:04.349
Moving to San Francisco.

00:02:04.984 --> 00:02:11.754
Kevin found a good mentor and also started learning how to tackle big waves in San Francisco and around.

00:02:12.615 --> 00:02:26.754
Along the way he left a perfectly good medical career to grow the Mulago Foundation helping social entrepreneurs globally designed for impact at scale.

00:02:27.495 --> 00:02:42.974
I can't wait to uncover how Kevin juggles a career as the CEO of Mulago, along with continuing to excel in the outdoors, while keeping his mind and body in great shape.

00:02:49.224 --> 00:02:55.545
Kevin, hey, um, how's it going this, uh, this Friday, uh, foggy afternoon?

00:02:57.735 --> 00:03:11.479
Well, it seems like it's a La Nina year and the fog is in here at the beach and, um, We always hoped that by mid September we're done with it, but might as well, might as well love it.

00:03:12.120 --> 00:03:15.209
Yeah, yeah, well, uh, at least today it doesn't seem to be.

00:03:15.469 --> 00:03:30.420
I think it's a bit overcast, uh, at Ocean Beach, but, uh, but I think by now the fog has, has mostly burnt off, and I think it's somewhat for teachers that we had in this conversation, and, uh, the surf season is underway.

00:03:30.904 --> 00:03:46.584
And, uh, for those of us who are not watching this, uh, watching the video, there is this beautiful, uh, frame art of, uh, this, uh, this big wave, uh, breaking in your, uh, background, if I may ask where is this piece of art from?

00:03:48.355 --> 00:03:51.264
It's, um, it's the YMAS Shorebreak.

00:03:52.144 --> 00:03:52.375
Ah.

00:03:52.384 --> 00:03:55.295
You can see how shallow it is at the base of the picture.

00:03:55.714 --> 00:03:56.975
Sure, sure.

00:03:57.014 --> 00:03:57.555
Um.

00:03:58.279 --> 00:04:02.329
And, uh, did you get it right from the artist and in Hawaii?

00:04:05.389 --> 00:04:08.319
No, no, I got it from Ikea.

00:04:11.740 --> 00:04:14.889
That's a dirty secret that I think I just told a bunch of people.

00:04:14.889 --> 00:04:23.610
But it's like it costs a ton to get a picture blown up like this, but I would blow up a picture like this.

00:04:24.170 --> 00:04:31.550
And I'm literally getting, you know, silverware some shit in And I see this from way across the room.

00:04:32.529 --> 00:04:34.509
So it's been up there forever.

00:04:34.810 --> 00:04:35.350
That's funny.

00:04:35.800 --> 00:04:44.709
And I bet, I don't know how many laughs you've had, uh, sharing this, uh, you know, sharing your better secret with, uh, other admirers.

00:04:44.709 --> 00:04:52.675
Yeah, Well, that's, I'm only, only, I'm only sharing with you'cause I'm trying to get some, some, uh.

00:04:53.480 --> 00:04:55.019
Candor cred here.

00:04:56.219 --> 00:04:56.589
Okay, right.

00:04:57.269 --> 00:05:00.134
So far, you know, Two minutes into the conversation.

00:05:00.134 --> 00:05:00.504
Yes.

00:05:00.534 --> 00:05:07.014
Uh, the candor, uh, points are coming your way, but hey, uh, Kevin, great to be connected.

00:05:07.034 --> 00:05:09.675
Uh, it's certainly been several years.

00:05:10.555 --> 00:05:16.555
Met at the gym last and I think we also met once at ocean beach, which I think about the same time.

00:05:16.594 --> 00:05:26.685
I think it was a weekend morning and it was one of those days where the waves were not very big, but I was, uh, I think I was struggling to get out.

00:05:27.324 --> 00:05:38.004
And I think you and others were like, I think you would either finish the surf or, um, or we're coming back, uh, or maybe we'll, we're going out at that time.

00:05:38.394 --> 00:05:43.585
Are you still, uh, writing her out, uh, at surf and ocean beach or, uh, do you.

00:05:44.000 --> 00:05:45.610
Gravity to other places.

00:05:46.920 --> 00:05:50.819
No, I'm a regular when I'm not on the beach with an injury.

00:05:52.400 --> 00:05:52.790
Okay.

00:05:53.019 --> 00:05:53.420
Fair.

00:05:53.540 --> 00:05:58.670
And I think a lot of us can, uh, can probably, uh, share some of those sentiments.

00:05:59.120 --> 00:06:09.240
Um, Hey, just taking a quick step back, Kevin, would you mind sharing a little bit about what you do and, uh, the different dimensions you are involved in?

00:06:11.745 --> 00:06:39.925
Yeah, I mean, most of my energy these days goes into my work at a foundation called Milago, and I'm the CEO, and what we do is we try to find people with solutions to poverty that we think could go really big, and then we teach them about design and strategy, And then we fund them and advise them over years.

00:06:39.925 --> 00:06:54.814
And as long as we see that they're making big, serious progress toward exponential scale, like kids lives saved or kids literate or farmers making more money or whatever it might be.

00:06:54.835 --> 00:07:03.965
We're mostly in Sub Saharan Africa and the poor parts of Asia, but I've got about 12 people on the team.

00:07:04.800 --> 00:07:13.660
We spend about 25 million a year, and we work with a lot of funders who follow our portfolio.

00:07:13.930 --> 00:07:18.280
So, all in all, we're helping move a lot of money now.

00:07:19.519 --> 00:07:21.189
That's, uh, that's incredible, Kevin.

00:07:21.220 --> 00:07:27.569
And I know you've been doing this for some time now, but that was, I believe, not your, uh, original calling.

00:07:28.665 --> 00:07:33.965
So, uh, would you mind just sharing very quickly, uh, how did you end up in this space?

00:07:36.025 --> 00:07:42.665
Well, when I was in med school at UCSF, I, um, started a project in the Peruvian Andes.

00:07:43.415 --> 00:07:48.694
I'd been, I'd spent two seasons climbing in the Cordillera Blanca and Cordillera Huayhuash.

00:07:49.254 --> 00:08:07.925
And, um, I started a, uh, project to train local health workers, community health workers in Peru by bringing a group of doctors and medical students down and going on tours through the mountain range to visit their towns and, and teach and learn.

00:08:08.300 --> 00:09:28.160
And, um, I had a mentor named Reiner Arnhold, who was a very accomplished pediatrician who'd worked all over the world, and he was in his late 60s, and by 1993, because of the Peruvian Civil War, we'd moved the project to Bolivia, the Bolivian amputees, and Reiner suddenly, on one of the hikes, dropped dead.

00:09:28.559 --> 00:09:45.055
He had a massive stroke, and in the aftermath of that, I get to know his family, And they'd been in banking for generations, and it turned out my friend Reiner, who was kind of a dirtbag like the rest of us, um, had 50 million.

00:09:46.014 --> 00:09:53.845
And his family said, let's start a foundation and Kevin, you know, his work, well, would you help?

00:09:54.795 --> 00:10:06.194
And then long story short, it just got more and more interesting and took over more and more of my life, um, to the point where, you know, I just kind of tapered down, down, down with medicine and up, up, up with that.

00:10:06.375 --> 00:10:13.625
And, um, I think my last patient I really saw formally was 9 years ago.

00:10:16.394 --> 00:10:19.345
That's quite a story, uh, Kevin and, uh.

00:10:20.615 --> 00:10:30.535
One is, uh, I guess obviously in hindsight, uh, uh, Reinhold's family picked probably the right person.

00:10:31.004 --> 00:10:31.694
Unlikely.

00:10:31.754 --> 00:10:40.634
Uh, I mean, uh, Maybe you did not fit the resume of somebody who would do that, but it looks like they fit the perfect person to carry his work forward.

00:10:41.245 --> 00:10:53.440
And then the second thing is that, uh, is something I wanted to come to later in this conversation is, uh, is kind of, uh, Finding that common thread between the outdoors and the work you do.

00:10:53.440 --> 00:10:58.339
So I think you just, uh, you just kind of shared the genesis of that.

00:10:58.390 --> 00:11:05.220
Um, where can people go to learn more about the Mulago foundation and the work that you do?

00:11:07.109 --> 00:11:16.204
Um, we built a website that I think does a pretty good job of communicating what we do and who we do it with.

00:11:16.765 --> 00:11:19.255
And it's just MulagoFoundation.

00:11:19.255 --> 00:11:23.035
org, Mulago spelled N U L A G O.

00:11:24.045 --> 00:11:28.164
And, um, people have any critique, I'd love to hear it.

00:11:28.795 --> 00:11:29.194
That's right.

00:11:29.245 --> 00:11:29.634
Perfect.

00:11:29.795 --> 00:11:30.775
People are ready to go now.

00:11:31.684 --> 00:11:39.234
Now, uh, coming, uh, coming to a little bit of, uh, sort of your, uh, story with, uh, the outdoors.

00:11:39.855 --> 00:11:52.539
Uh, one is, I would love to hear a little bit about, uh, the outdoor, uh, activities that you have, uh, been, uh, engaged in over the last, uh, few decades.

00:11:52.569 --> 00:11:56.960
I know you from the lens of climbing and, uh, surfing.

00:11:57.529 --> 00:12:02.990
So we'd love to hear a little bit about both of those activities, uh, how you got started with them.

00:12:04.259 --> 00:12:12.640
And then also maybe some of your, uh, making a long question even longer, maybe some of your, uh, prouder moments with both.

00:12:14.730 --> 00:12:15.210
Wow.

00:12:15.289 --> 00:12:21.839
Well, one, I'll, I'll just talk about getting started and then you can repeat the proudest and only question if you want.

00:12:22.539 --> 00:12:22.680
Sure.

00:12:22.700 --> 00:12:29.759
Um, I've, oh, I grew up in San Diego and I've always loved the mountains and the ocean.

00:12:30.140 --> 00:12:34.390
And I think I was never able to choose between them.

00:12:34.559 --> 00:12:38.099
So I ended up finding some way to experience both.

00:12:38.099 --> 00:12:40.690
And, um, my dad took me up.

00:12:40.690 --> 00:12:44.390
I first typed up Mount Whitney when I was 11.

00:12:46.920 --> 00:12:58.890
And my dad would take, he wasn't a client or anything, but he would take me to what back then, you know, people would get slideshows and you'd go watch, you know, what's his name, Whitaker.

00:12:59.454 --> 00:13:03.015
Um, give a slideshow on climbing Everest.

00:13:03.015 --> 00:13:08.204
And I went to the one that was, I can't even remember who it was.

00:13:09.825 --> 00:13:18.025
Um, but it was about Taiji Peak in the Karakoram and I was like 15 or something.

00:13:18.724 --> 00:13:23.434
And I thought there's nothing that would be better than doing that.

00:13:24.914 --> 00:13:27.245
And then light took over and I didn't.

00:13:27.654 --> 00:13:33.404
I didn't really, I learned, started learning to rock climb at college at UC San Francisco.

00:13:34.454 --> 00:13:39.255
And I had a really good Yosemite climber named Jim Elias kind of took me under his wing.

00:13:40.325 --> 00:13:47.954
And, uh, by the end of college, I was kind of competent.

00:13:47.954 --> 00:13:54.880
And then I, during med school, we used to go, we used to go up to the weekend and we'd study in the, in the, um.

00:13:57.089 --> 00:14:02.279
At night until they kicked us out and then go climb as long as we could get away within the day.

00:14:03.220 --> 00:14:10.359
Um, and then after residency, I started doing right before med school.

00:14:11.549 --> 00:14:18.345
Um, it was funny, I broke my ankle really badly on a, on a fist cracked called fist to cuffs.

00:14:18.345 --> 00:14:19.579
And, and Joshua Trippe.

00:14:21.035 --> 00:14:34.075
It's like this 10 B, 10 C, um, overhanging fist crack, and I shattered my talus, or actually just broke it, like it was twisted and broken.

00:14:34.194 --> 00:14:34.724
Ouch.

00:14:34.904 --> 00:14:45.605
And, and then, um, so I had this big surgery, and then this long recovery, and then they told me, you know, don't do anything that hurts.

00:14:46.515 --> 00:14:47.984
Well, everything hurts.

00:14:49.250 --> 00:14:52.880
And so I was doing less and less and less and getting more and more depressed.

00:14:53.390 --> 00:14:56.000
And then I met this orthopod who said, no, no, no, no, no.

00:14:57.579 --> 00:15:00.059
Don't, it will stop you when it hurts.

00:15:00.870 --> 00:15:02.500
Just do it as much as you want.

00:15:02.500 --> 00:15:03.380
Do as much as you want.

00:15:03.380 --> 00:15:05.019
And that was like getting out of jail.

00:15:06.400 --> 00:15:12.500
And that summer I first went to Peru and we climbed Pan.

00:15:13.019 --> 00:15:16.099
And I must have hiked a hundred miles with backpacks on.

00:15:17.400 --> 00:15:31.130
And I actually, my ankle started to hurt less and when they did the surgery, they said, we're going to have to fuse this, this joint, this talus joint or subtalar joint, um, by your time you're 40 and I'm 63.

00:15:33.224 --> 00:15:37.444
And it's just going, it's a little stiff sometimes, but it works just fine.

00:15:37.825 --> 00:15:48.674
I can't dorsiflex by as much as I would like to, which, which has, uh, relevance around surfing, but it's not, it's, it's not disabling.

00:15:49.894 --> 00:15:53.755
Did that, uh, I guess, uh, uh, Dallas.

00:15:55.105 --> 00:16:02.154
stiffness also hinder you from going back to that same crack in Yasha tree.

00:16:02.154 --> 00:16:11.694
And, uh, finally, I guess completing it, uh, because you have to, you know, use your feet to jam those cracks often.

00:16:11.745 --> 00:16:28.525
And I know from experience, uh, when you're twisting your, you know, crack labbing forces us into these, like really, uh, let's call them orthopedic Nightmarish, uh, body positions where you're twisting and pulling yourself in contorted ways.

00:16:31.944 --> 00:16:34.865
No, it doesn't really seem to matter.

00:16:34.914 --> 00:16:39.025
My wife and I were in, we're in Joshua tree last winter.

00:16:39.085 --> 00:16:42.255
And just for fun, we did a little pilgrimage to fisticuffs.

00:16:42.414 --> 00:16:45.805
I thought, Hey, no, that's the thing.

00:16:46.434 --> 00:16:51.015
Um, and, and no, it kind of speaks to like, I don't want, I love long.

00:16:51.565 --> 00:16:56.015
A lot of long routes in the mountains, that's what I love to do.

00:16:56.625 --> 00:17:05.605
And, um, I want to, you know, use sport climbing and, and short one pitch climbs and that sort of thing to try to get better.

00:17:06.194 --> 00:17:08.654
But I sure as hell don't want to get hurt doing that.

00:17:09.934 --> 00:17:18.255
So I'm going to treat that really gently and, you know, maybe fisticuffs would be worth doing now, but I don't know, just seems to have bad juju.

00:17:19.174 --> 00:17:23.755
If I want to prove something, I don't want to prove that I don't need to prove.

00:17:24.505 --> 00:17:24.805
Got it.

00:17:24.805 --> 00:17:25.134
Got it.

00:17:25.134 --> 00:17:25.295
Yeah.

00:17:25.295 --> 00:17:29.755
One has to, uh, one has to be selective about one's, uh, one's battles.

00:17:30.275 --> 00:17:35.245
Um, in what you just said, I picked up a few different things about your climbing history.

00:17:35.454 --> 00:17:40.644
You spoke off being inspired by, let's say climbs in the Himalayas.

00:17:40.694 --> 00:17:42.664
I heard about Mount Everest.

00:17:42.664 --> 00:17:43.484
I heard about the Karakorams.

00:17:44.535 --> 00:17:47.085
I heard about obviously some of your, uh.

00:17:47.555 --> 00:17:51.565
You know, some of, some of the cracks closer to you, Joshua tree.

00:17:52.404 --> 00:17:54.694
And then I also heard about Yosemite.

00:17:54.714 --> 00:18:15.454
So over, over the decades, uh, I, uh, having, having climbed, I'm guessing in, in those places and more, any particular moments stand out, uh, uh, that you, you either very proud of, or they, uh, they, they make for, uh, just achievements that you will, uh, always take with you.

00:18:18.154 --> 00:19:43.085
Well, um, the high point of my mountain career was, I guess, uh, was, was Triangle Tower back in 94, and, um, I went with, uh, Willie Benegas and, um, Eric Brand to try a new route on, try the first route on the North Face.

00:19:44.879 --> 00:19:54.539
And, um, it ended up taking, uh, 18 days to get up and three days to get down.

00:19:54.539 --> 00:20:02.910
So it was 21 days on the wall and it was a, it was a, just an utterly extraordinary experience.

00:20:03.099 --> 00:20:04.599
And I wouldn't do it again.

00:20:05.660 --> 00:20:06.160
Amazing.

00:20:07.120 --> 00:20:15.410
It was just so much work and I like, I think if I like one thing best of all, it's fast and light alpine climbing.

00:20:16.519 --> 00:20:20.470
Um, and this was anything but just right.

00:20:21.360 --> 00:20:28.240
It was an extraordinary experience just being, it was like being in space for three weeks.

00:20:29.029 --> 00:20:38.180
And we finally got up this morning and, um, and still getting off anything that big is still itself an epic.

00:20:39.509 --> 00:20:46.690
Isn't Triangle Tower like, uh, the biggest big wall in the world even now?

00:20:47.579 --> 00:20:49.914
No, I think Great Triangle is.

00:20:50.214 --> 00:20:50.575
Okay.

00:20:50.765 --> 00:20:51.575
Great triangle.

00:20:51.795 --> 00:20:55.585
Great triangle is unimaginably broad and high.

00:20:56.025 --> 00:20:59.075
I, it's, it's triangle tower.

00:21:00.485 --> 00:21:05.765
I mean, I tell people that triangle tower is a ZFL cap sat on top of the Mont Blanc.

00:21:08.555 --> 00:21:18.045
Because you have to do a Alpine sort of snow and ice climb, mostly snow, some rock to get up to the base and then.

00:21:18.920 --> 00:21:20.500
And then you got a car and a big wall.

00:21:22.600 --> 00:21:23.100
Yeah.

00:21:23.140 --> 00:21:23.400
Yeah.

00:21:23.400 --> 00:21:26.610
And I'm guessing this was done expedition style.

00:21:26.740 --> 00:21:28.759
Like, uh, you said over three weeks.

00:21:28.759 --> 00:21:30.430
So were you taking a big team?

00:21:31.150 --> 00:21:33.839
Well, it was, no, it was capsule style.

00:21:33.870 --> 00:21:36.950
So once you left the ground, you didn't come back down.

00:21:36.970 --> 00:21:42.230
And so you had like 800 feet of rope, a thousand feet of rope.

00:21:42.240 --> 00:21:46.319
And you would run that up as far as you can coming up and down every day.

00:21:46.319 --> 00:21:47.700
And then you'd move the camp up.

00:21:48.400 --> 00:21:53.110
And we only had to, we only had to do two camps if I remember right.

00:21:55.710 --> 00:21:59.980
Cause you could only camp where you had some snow and there ain't much snow on that place.

00:22:00.299 --> 00:22:01.269
Sure, sure.

00:22:01.269 --> 00:22:02.180
Yeah, it's so steep.

00:22:02.615 --> 00:22:06.055
Yeah, that wall, this on the tiny bit, I know about it.

00:22:06.095 --> 00:22:12.025
It's relentlessly steep, which means that, you know, you are, uh, it's overhanging.

00:22:12.065 --> 00:22:13.345
It's actually overhanging.

00:22:13.795 --> 00:22:14.735
It's kind of amazing.

00:22:14.745 --> 00:22:24.485
Or ice will come up the top and it would be like watching a helicopter about to crash, you know, 50, a hundred feet out in the air on its way down.

00:22:25.315 --> 00:22:26.025
That's incredible.

00:22:27.115 --> 00:22:33.505
Any other things that you, uh, care to, uh, share about climbs closer to home?

00:22:36.404 --> 00:22:49.855
Well, um, another, you know, Willie and I met up in, in the valley some years later, and Willie Banegas is in his way, I think, one of the best climbers in the world.

00:22:50.714 --> 00:22:58.565
And, um, we just hadn't seen each other for a while, we'd just spent three days climbing, and, you know, Because Willie was pushing me.

00:22:58.565 --> 00:23:14.884
It's like, we just did this warm up one day on the East Batra Sub Metal and then the next day we did the East Batra Sub Metal Cap, and the next day we did, uh, Half Dome, Bardikar in 14 hours.

00:23:15.485 --> 00:23:17.444
And that was, that was a high point.

00:23:17.725 --> 00:23:21.225
I never approached anything like it since.

00:23:21.235 --> 00:23:25.815
Wow, it sounds like a heck of a long weekend.

00:23:26.315 --> 00:23:30.225
Three every year and all like kind of leading up to the other.

00:23:30.225 --> 00:23:37.714
I mean, yeah, but by today's standards, it was like baby steps.

00:23:37.714 --> 00:23:42.775
But for me back then with a good friend, it was wonderful.

00:23:44.470 --> 00:23:45.110
Yeah, I know.

00:23:45.110 --> 00:23:55.670
I, I not quite, uh, not quite the same clients, but I remember one weekend where I had, uh, another really strong, uh, friend visiting me from Germany.

00:23:56.045 --> 00:24:01.815
And, uh, I think over three days, I think we did, I think we did.

00:24:01.825 --> 00:24:10.684
Um, I know we did the rostrum on the second day and I think we did something easier on the third day.

00:24:10.765 --> 00:24:13.904
No, Royal arches one day, rostrum second day.

00:24:15.144 --> 00:24:18.154
Uh, and then I think a hard day of cragging the third day.

00:24:19.125 --> 00:24:29.825
And the fourth day he wanted to do, go and do Astroman and I basically folded my hand and said, no, I can't, this body is not going to listen to me in a, in a smaller way.

00:24:29.825 --> 00:24:31.095
I can empathize.

00:24:31.154 --> 00:24:44.735
In retrospect, I am sort of in a, in a small way proud of those few days of like being able to keep up with like a young whippersnapper and um, and then also, yeah, I think it was, it was fun to kind of.

00:24:44.894 --> 00:24:55.095
Push myself to, uh, as you know, as, as a weekend cragger and as somebody who's not, uh, who's not really, uh, you know, a track time or really, uh, to push myself.

00:24:55.365 --> 00:25:12.180
It's one thing you said, which was kind of interesting, Kevin, you said, you know, that you want to use, you know, I guess, uh, yeah, shorter class to train yourself for, for like bigger, uh, let's say just bigger on scale adventures outside because you don't want to get hurt.

00:25:12.289 --> 00:25:12.789
Right.

00:25:13.240 --> 00:25:25.250
And it's interesting how I have the other perspective, which is, uh, uh, I am, I guess, currently more focused from a background is more like short, but thanks for climbing and some bouldering.

00:25:25.539 --> 00:25:34.410
And for me, I am, I've scaled back a bit on like Alpine and Chad, uh, climbing because I don't want to get hurt doing those things.

00:25:34.779 --> 00:25:35.880
Keep me from thing.

00:25:36.164 --> 00:25:40.954
Doing like more, let's say, um, doing other things with climbing.

00:25:40.954 --> 00:25:54.075
So it's, it's interesting how we both come from like these, uh, opposite, uh, I, uh, Alpine climbing is probably more likely to kill you and maybe less likely to hurt.

00:25:55.055 --> 00:25:55.795
Fair, fair.

00:25:56.115 --> 00:25:57.375
Yes, yes, yes, exactly.

00:25:57.444 --> 00:25:59.394
And, uh, that's right.

00:25:59.755 --> 00:26:04.134
You know, it's, it's going to be like one hell of a, one hell of a way to go.

00:26:04.505 --> 00:26:08.075
Um, um, so just switching gears a little bit.

00:26:09.275 --> 00:26:20.535
You also surf, and I know you've, uh, been doing that for a while, did that story begin with your, uh, with your, uh, childhood in San Diego?

00:26:20.535 --> 00:26:22.664
Is that where you learned to surf?

00:26:22.725 --> 00:26:34.710
And, uh, has that kind of, uh, Yeah, well, you know, Southern California is about cars and I lived inland and I didn't have a car till I was 17.

00:26:35.430 --> 00:26:37.190
So I couldn't really get to the beach.

00:26:37.900 --> 00:26:43.839
Um, you know, as much as one could to really get, get into and get at surfing.

00:26:44.930 --> 00:26:51.029
And so then when I had a car, I started going up to like Big Rock and La Jolla.

00:26:52.214 --> 00:26:56.005
And that was a really cool way that it was a new boarding scene.

00:26:56.755 --> 00:27:16.454
Steve Liss and all those guys, you know, very influenced by By George Green on and, um, and so I started me boring, you know, cause that's just a tight little barely wave and the boardings seem like the learning curve was shorter and naturally the impatient, lazy.

00:27:16.855 --> 00:27:23.295
So, I started me boarding, which is the biggest.

00:27:23.845 --> 00:27:27.115
I'm lucky that that's the biggest single regret of my life.

00:27:28.150 --> 00:27:34.380
Uh, because then I went up to UC Santa Cruz College and I kept kneeboarding.

00:27:34.390 --> 00:27:46.039
I had a really, so much fun on the, on the North coast, but by the end of university, I was kind of getting really intrigued with big waves and you can't surf big waves on a knee board.

00:27:46.634 --> 00:27:56.835
And, uh, and so I ended up going to med school at UC San Francisco, and honestly, I didn't even know there were good wives here.

00:27:57.475 --> 00:27:58.924
It was just the one use.

00:27:58.964 --> 00:28:02.134
I couldn't, I couldn't afford to go anything outside of California.

00:28:02.500 --> 00:28:14.740
I didn't want to, and it was the one that was, I was in, I was in love with Northern California one time and it was the, the one med school that was near the ocean in Northern California.

00:28:14.759 --> 00:28:16.529
So I wanted to go there.

00:28:16.819 --> 00:28:24.799
And then, then I had a first year, my first year advisor in medical school was Mark Reneker.

00:28:24.799 --> 00:28:27.079
Most people know him as Doc Reneker.

00:28:27.910 --> 00:28:38.890
And so he got me out into Ocean Beach and then was kind of my mentor and trying to learn how to stand up surf and surf big waves at the same time.

00:28:38.890 --> 00:28:43.539
I mean, in retrospect, Ocean Beach is a terrible place to learn how to surf.

00:28:44.700 --> 00:28:46.130
I didn't mind the beating.

00:28:46.180 --> 00:28:47.710
Don't tell me about it.

00:28:48.309 --> 00:28:48.880
Tell me about it.

00:28:48.880 --> 00:28:52.190
12 years in and still trying to, uh, master the basics.

00:28:53.759 --> 00:28:54.140
Yeah.

00:28:54.140 --> 00:29:02.850
I mean, some people called me stupid because I just, I would go out and days, I probably had no business going out and I could stick with it until I got out.

00:29:04.410 --> 00:29:10.900
And weirdly, I got better at writing bigger waves because you kind of have more time to get set.

00:29:11.865 --> 00:29:18.475
Um, but still, you know, Ocean Beach, how many waves do you get out in a, how many waves do you get in an Ocean Beach section?

00:29:18.485 --> 00:29:30.934
You take half an hour to get out, and then some days you seem to find the rhythm, and you get into the double digits, but mostly, no, I should say mostly I don't.

00:29:31.605 --> 00:29:34.454
There are people who I just watch that are just machines.

00:29:36.714 --> 00:29:49.045
Uh, I'm not that, but you just don't get that many waves at Ocean Beach compared to, you know, if you, if you sucked it up and were surfing in a Santa Cruz reef, you just get so many more waves.

00:29:49.595 --> 00:29:50.164
Sure.

00:29:50.275 --> 00:29:54.585
No, I think that's, um, um, I think that's, that is so true.

00:29:54.625 --> 00:29:58.835
Um, even for people who are quite dedicated, I think.

00:29:59.140 --> 00:30:18.100
I think it's, it's hard to, hard to predict with any reliability, how a particular session might go on a proper, uh, proper day in the season because ocean, yeah, ocean beach can be, you know, very temperamental.

00:30:18.880 --> 00:30:25.140
It can be, uh, it can be, you know, the, sort of the great decider of how you might do on a particular day.

00:30:25.620 --> 00:30:41.115
And I did not know this, uh, Kevin, that you were part of, uh, you know, doc's, uh, doc Renick's school of, uh, prodigies, uh, by the way, I am talking to, uh, I managed to, uh, get a hold of him.

00:30:41.625 --> 00:30:48.855
So I am going to be hopefully having him on this, uh, on the, on the show later on, uh, the season.

00:30:48.855 --> 00:31:00.065
So I, I look forward to that combination because I've never surfed or met Doc in person, but I was inspired by, uh, the New Yorker article from, you know, many moons ago.

00:31:00.755 --> 00:31:02.015
And it's great to hear that.

00:31:02.015 --> 00:31:02.265
Yeah.

00:31:02.375 --> 00:31:07.674
You have surfed with, uh, with, uh, with Doc, uh, you know, when we're learning.

00:31:08.475 --> 00:31:12.424
Ocean Beach, and I think you still continue to surf with him to the day.

00:31:13.315 --> 00:31:25.634
Well, Steve, he is, um, he's not really inspiring, uh, figure to the older surfer, because he's eight years older than me, and, and he can still paddle better.

00:31:25.634 --> 00:31:32.785
He'd still get out, I think, on days, you know, everybody keeps track of the one or two days in the season when they just don't get out.

00:31:33.735 --> 00:31:38.164
And I think, I suspect in a given season, my total is still higher.

00:31:38.985 --> 00:31:39.975
That's amazing.

00:31:39.985 --> 00:31:42.704
So yeah, he's just inspiring.

00:31:42.704 --> 00:31:44.525
I'm glad you're going to talk to him.

00:31:44.525 --> 00:31:48.115
I think you'll learn a lot more talking to him than you do to me.

00:31:48.819 --> 00:32:03.880
Different, different things from different people, uh, given that, uh, Kevin, given that, you know, you do, uh, you, you pour so much energy into your work and, uh, and also into, uh, into climbing and into surfing.

00:32:03.880 --> 00:32:13.049
I mean, these are like extremely, you know, time taking activities and, and most people would be proud of just, uh, succeeding in just one of them.

00:32:13.089 --> 00:32:16.170
And you are, you know, you are doing things with all three of them.

00:32:16.539 --> 00:32:24.815
How are you able to, uh, To keep them in balance, any things you've learned over the years, any, any practices you follow to the day?

00:32:27.595 --> 00:32:39.714
Um, I read, I read a, uh, I don't really read the Harvard Business Review that much, but I just happened to see it sitting around the office once.

00:32:39.795 --> 00:32:45.775
And I read an article and I didn't really read much past the title because I felt like sometimes I didn't.

00:32:45.785 --> 00:32:49.355
The title was, there is no work life balance, there's only choice.

00:32:51.200 --> 00:32:56.610
And I, I tell my, my founders, my social entrepreneurs.

00:32:57.309 --> 00:33:24.990
I use that all the time because work life balance is some kind of abstract thing and choices are real and so you can say I'm gonna surf this season and I know what it takes to surf ocean beach um Well enough, which, which means get out and, um, and it's fickle.

00:33:25.710 --> 00:33:30.360
And so you got to have a certain level of flexibility and you make that choice.

00:33:30.470 --> 00:33:31.990
That's I'm going to do that.

00:33:32.410 --> 00:33:35.600
And I'm also going to have a job and I'm going to work my ass off at it.

00:33:35.650 --> 00:33:42.009
But if you don't make some choices, I'm going to spend this time with my family.

00:33:42.424 --> 00:33:44.404
I'm going to spend this time surfing.

00:33:44.914 --> 00:33:52.934
If you love your work, your work's going to seep down to all the cracks and, and that's actually pretty awesome unless you don't like your work.

00:33:53.654 --> 00:33:59.575
But if you want to, if you want to do these other things, you have to make a choice to do it.

00:34:01.434 --> 00:34:05.125
And so I don't try to balance my life and work sometimes my life.

00:34:05.154 --> 00:34:12.365
My work utterly takes over every fiber of my being and every second of my available time.

00:34:12.975 --> 00:34:19.625
And then sometimes in surf season, uh, I don't even want to admit how little time it'll take.

00:34:20.695 --> 00:34:23.164
Um, same as in the summer.

00:34:23.164 --> 00:34:25.945
I want to be in the mountains as much as possible in the summer.

00:34:27.204 --> 00:34:30.265
Carve that out so that my work isn't suffering.

00:34:31.120 --> 00:34:32.230
But I'm gonna do that.

00:34:32.840 --> 00:34:35.420
And I'm gonna do it every year, year in and year out.

00:34:40.430 --> 00:34:42.110
Oops, I think you might be on mute.

00:34:46.320 --> 00:34:47.800
Kevin, yes, uh, amazing.

00:34:47.800 --> 00:34:50.860
No, I think those might be words to live by, yes.

00:34:51.860 --> 00:35:01.470
There isn't, um There isn't, uh, I think balance is maybe only temporal and, and, you know, choices, uh, matter more.

00:35:01.800 --> 00:35:08.829
And I think one smart choice that I can see you have made is, uh, is building a home right by the water.

00:35:09.049 --> 00:35:15.989
So you don't have to spend time, uh, you know, admiring the ocean from a camera or from photos.

00:35:15.989 --> 00:35:17.019
You can actually be there.

00:35:17.059 --> 00:35:22.494
Um, any other, um, intentional, uh, things you have done in your life.

00:35:22.565 --> 00:35:29.255
Uh, like one thing you mentioned is, uh, maybe, uh, training your, your team in a certain way.

00:35:29.264 --> 00:35:30.795
Maybe you can talk more about that.

00:35:30.804 --> 00:35:35.214
Maybe some other choices that you have made and also Kevin, any trade offs there?

00:35:37.384 --> 00:35:37.894
Any what?

00:35:38.525 --> 00:35:39.554
Any trade offs?

00:35:40.105 --> 00:35:48.255
Trade offs, because again, you know, you're executing, uh, uh, at a high level across, uh, across disciplines.

00:35:49.659 --> 00:35:59.559
Well, you don't, you don't have a, a counterfactual, my assumptions always been that you take a career hit from doing this other stuff.

00:36:00.690 --> 00:36:15.049
Um, I know people who I don't, I don't know have, and, and Mark Reniker has chosen a way of doing medicine that is so compatible with the surfing that I think that he has, um, Yeah.

00:36:16.779 --> 00:36:25.719
Managed to do both spectacularly well, have a, have a wife and surfing and how I've extort do extraordinary work.

00:36:26.630 --> 00:36:35.619
Um, I have a more conventional, uh, work day because I have a team that I want to work with.

00:36:35.920 --> 00:36:42.269
And the one choice I, I guess it's a choice is that I'm going to do that thing.

00:36:42.269 --> 00:36:45.829
I'm going to really assiduously do that thing of hiring people that are smarter.

00:36:46.159 --> 00:36:48.389
So I get a team that can do stuff.

00:36:49.750 --> 00:37:04.839
Um, Maybe as good as I can do or better than I can do, and it's the team that's going to outlast me anyway, so it's in my interest now and later to build that team.

00:37:07.069 --> 00:37:10.529
I don't, I mean this thing, the logo went really slowly.

00:37:10.984 --> 00:37:26.494
At the beginning, and now it's really taken off, but it went slowly because, uh, I did ER medicine when I finished because I wanted big chunks of time off.

00:37:26.494 --> 00:37:29.214
And if you work rural ERs, you can write your own ticket.

00:37:29.734 --> 00:37:41.414
And so I got to spend a lot of time doing these things as I started to build Milagro and as I had a medical career and I could build it really slowly.

00:37:41.434 --> 00:37:49.324
And normally if someone came to me as a founder and said, I'm going to do this thing that's going to change the world, but I'm going to do it really slowly.

00:37:49.324 --> 00:37:55.474
I'd say, well, You know, come back when you're ready to go all out, but I had the luxury.

00:37:55.514 --> 00:37:57.064
I didn't even know what I was building.

00:37:57.064 --> 00:38:19.594
I had no long term vision, but I do know that if you, if you want to spend a ton of time outdoors, but, but I won't have a career that is not based in the outdoors, that career is going to take a hit.

00:38:21.844 --> 00:38:23.534
And again, it's choices, right?

00:38:24.984 --> 00:38:25.724
Absolutely.

00:38:25.914 --> 00:38:26.314
Yeah.

00:38:26.434 --> 00:38:27.714
Um, absolutely choices.

00:38:27.984 --> 00:38:30.554
And, you know, there are different ways to look at it.

00:38:30.584 --> 00:38:38.924
Uh, I think me personally, um, um, I, I took some time, I've taken time, chunks of time in my career to pursue climbing, to pursue surfing.

00:38:38.964 --> 00:38:45.054
And I, I think I realized that I personally don't have any talent to do those things full time.

00:38:45.634 --> 00:38:53.524
So for me, To be able to stay motivated and actually, actually be motivated for climbing and surfing.

00:38:53.554 --> 00:38:56.654
I have to have like a more conventional career around.

00:38:57.730 --> 00:39:00.730
You know, doing things behind the desk and working with people.

00:39:00.739 --> 00:39:16.439
So I think for me, that balance seems to, obviously you are taking hits, but in some ways it's also kind of coming together because, because one thing keeps me motivated to, uh, to engage and, uh, succeed in, uh, in the other.

00:39:16.639 --> 00:39:25.509
I think doing just one thing makes it a little bit, uh, My, I, I just couldn't, I could, that wasn't complicated enough for me.

00:39:25.509 --> 00:39:28.539
So I'm married a wonderful French woman.

00:39:29.464 --> 00:39:53.064
And have to be back there a lot and my job also requires a ton of travel and travel kills you like it's really hard to stay fit when traveling and I actually tell the people where I'm going, I'm going to have a couple hours each day for some exercise, even if we're in the in rural Zambia.

00:39:54.149 --> 00:39:57.480
And so, uh, and it's not always managed.

00:39:57.480 --> 00:40:01.889
And the problem for me is I'm, there are some people who would be looking for it.

00:40:01.889 --> 00:40:03.809
Oh God, I can't wait till my run.

00:40:03.819 --> 00:40:09.289
And for me, it's like, okay, I carved out the time how I got to go run.

00:40:09.609 --> 00:40:12.919
Cause I actually hate working out in all its forms.

00:40:13.669 --> 00:40:19.839
And I do it because it makes me able to do the things I'd love better and longer.

00:40:20.619 --> 00:40:21.730
But God, I hate it.

00:40:23.659 --> 00:40:24.179
I get it.

00:40:24.209 --> 00:40:25.859
No, I think it's for me again.

00:40:25.859 --> 00:40:26.099
Yeah.

00:40:26.099 --> 00:40:27.759
Exercise is kind of means.

00:40:29.404 --> 00:40:33.954
To an end, and I think the sports that I engage in, I think I think of them as play.

00:40:34.894 --> 00:40:43.784
Um, so Kevin, um, yeah, I do two things I wanted to ask you of that one is, are you able to combine any of your work trips to some of these places around the world?

00:40:43.784 --> 00:40:50.109
I know that, you know, you're funded, for example, if he's looked into funding entrepreneurs in places, even such as Pakistan.

00:40:50.399 --> 00:40:52.339
Where the, uh, triangle is.

00:40:52.339 --> 00:41:06.399
So one question I have is, um, if you have successfully been able to combine, uh, any trips where you've been able to, you know, climb mountains or surf with the work you're doing, um, let's start with that question first.

00:41:08.804 --> 00:41:29.105
Um, do and more in the past than I have in present, and I hope I do it more in the future, which is to say, let's see, I went to Tibet six times, and I didn't do any big climbs there, but I got to see and get close to a lot of mountains.

00:41:30.744 --> 00:41:40.194
And the one trip to India, I ended up doing some climbing in the Garwa and I used to keep a surfboard in Liberia.

00:41:40.664 --> 00:41:42.524
It still is somewhere there.

00:41:42.894 --> 00:41:46.044
There's just, there's some awesome waves there.

00:41:46.924 --> 00:41:49.464
Not huge, but some really incredible.

00:41:50.899 --> 00:41:58.839
Uh, points in, in, um, Liberia and South Africa, I've got surfing friends there.

00:41:58.839 --> 00:42:00.719
So we have some stuff in South Africa.

00:42:00.719 --> 00:42:15.889
And so, so whenever I can, but the, the thing that is funny is when I first did Lago, I didn't really know what a great program was and what a great solution was and how to assess a great leader.

00:42:16.894 --> 00:42:26.734
And now we go where the best ideas and the best leaders are, and they may be in Nigeria and Nigeria is no, no picnic for a climber or surfer to go to.

00:42:27.614 --> 00:42:42.494
It's hot and flat and, um, but the people, the energy there, the exuberance, the entrepreneurship, and the, the, the generation of ideas, you got to go there if you do my kind of work.

00:42:43.159 --> 00:42:48.559
And it's going to have a billion people and by the way, like 2050 or something.

00:42:49.639 --> 00:42:58.689
So, you know, I tend to, and now, now I've got a team where like, we all have to do our share of traveling.

00:42:58.689 --> 00:43:03.719
And yeah, I mean, like two of them said, we're going to Indonesia this fall.

00:43:03.819 --> 00:43:05.500
And I'm like, wait a second.

00:43:08.239 --> 00:43:11.799
I want to go to Indonesia.

00:43:12.579 --> 00:43:15.069
So they went to Indonesia and they didn't surf.

00:43:16.539 --> 00:43:27.619
Maybe Kevin, I need to come join your team as like an intern, just so I can, uh, be, be selfish about, uh, this, this, some of this upcoming, uh, travel you, your team has.

00:43:28.059 --> 00:43:36.250
Kevin, given the other, the other thing, the other thing I'll just mention is that sometimes you don't know, like I just went to Malawi.

00:43:36.250 --> 00:43:37.589
I'd never been to Malawi before.

00:43:37.989 --> 00:43:45.859
Malawi has huge granite walls that top out at 10, 000 feet on the border with Zimbabwe.

00:43:46.269 --> 00:44:00.519
And then apparently there's this whole area of really nice granite domes in the north of the country, and I just wasn't tapped in and didn't know that, and now I'm like, I mean, I was leaving and I was, I was talking to people back home.

00:44:00.519 --> 00:44:01.509
I was talking to my assistant.

00:44:01.539 --> 00:44:02.669
Can you extend this?

00:44:02.669 --> 00:44:03.689
Can I extend this?

00:44:03.709 --> 00:44:06.159
Can we put the other part of the trip back?

00:44:06.159 --> 00:44:07.319
I got to go see this.

00:44:07.919 --> 00:44:10.769
But we couldn't, so I'll, I'll, I'll have to go back.

00:44:10.769 --> 00:44:12.149
Fair, fair.

00:44:12.679 --> 00:44:25.429
Um, well, at least you got a little teaser of, uh, what's out there, maybe for a future trip or at least to share with others who might end up listening to this and, uh, end up in Malawi at the same time.

00:44:26.009 --> 00:44:29.949
Kevin, given, given your hectic, uh, You know, your hectic routines.

00:44:30.019 --> 00:44:50.579
Um, and you know, one of the things I'm trying to understand by talking to people such as yourself is any, any routines that you follow, you know, it could be things like certain exercises, working with coaches, things that you've learned over the years, help you stay in some shape.

00:44:51.834 --> 00:45:01.464
that when you actually go back to surf or go back to climbing after, you know, hectic travel, you're able to, uh, jumpstart, uh, back in.

00:45:04.514 --> 00:45:10.934
Um, well, more and more I'm able to keep, like, not lose too much ground on a trip.

00:45:11.954 --> 00:45:16.659
And then, um, I can just do something every day.

00:45:17.579 --> 00:45:20.429
You know, like, my office is on Russian Hill.

00:45:20.429 --> 00:45:21.289
I'm on Ocean Beach.

00:45:21.289 --> 00:45:23.759
I ride my bike as fast as I can there and back.

00:45:24.619 --> 00:45:30.730
Um, I'll go, if I got no alternative, I'll go run up and down the dune, you know, 30 times.

00:45:30.759 --> 00:45:31.629
I'll surf.

00:45:31.759 --> 00:45:36.169
I'll rehabilitate whatever current injury I have.

00:45:36.459 --> 00:45:42.859
And, you know, now I'm realizing that, like, I'm going to be doing shoulder exercises until I'm dead.

00:45:43.379 --> 00:45:46.389
So, those have to happen every day.

00:45:47.234 --> 00:45:58.934
Yeah, stretches, those exercises, you know, stabilizing the scapula that has to happen every day now and core strength is going to help avoid injury.

00:45:58.934 --> 00:46:05.125
So some of that has to happen every day and every day for me is different.

00:46:05.134 --> 00:46:14.194
Like sometimes I might have to talk to somebody in Zimbabwe at six o'clock in the morning and that day is going to look very different than the day before.

00:46:14.194 --> 00:46:14.524
So.

00:46:14.974 --> 00:46:16.984
You know, my life is chaos, right?

00:46:17.014 --> 00:46:22.584
And so it's just kind of like, look at the schedule, where do I have a break?

00:46:22.614 --> 00:46:32.404
And I try to tell my team and my assistant, I want a three hour break every day during surf season somewhere.

00:46:33.284 --> 00:46:36.375
And the bummer is when Ocean Beach goes off in the morning and you.

00:46:36.569 --> 00:46:49.179
Carved that out in the afternoon and oh, well, yeah, but, um, but I make sure there's time to do something every day, even if it's go up the street and get on my neighbor's rowing machine or watch something on Netflix.

00:46:50.230 --> 00:46:52.909
Um, and that's the best I can do.

00:46:52.929 --> 00:46:53.909
I'm, I'm not.

00:46:54.159 --> 00:46:55.469
I'm not a very organized person.

00:46:56.119 --> 00:46:58.159
I'm not a very disciplined person.

00:46:59.000 --> 00:47:01.959
I'm just super motivated to get to do these things.

00:47:03.129 --> 00:47:04.559
I mean, I'm fundamentally lazy.

00:47:04.579 --> 00:47:07.250
The best way to do things is to do the thing.

00:47:07.849 --> 00:47:09.139
So it's first season.

00:47:09.689 --> 00:47:10.459
Ocean beach.

00:47:10.849 --> 00:47:15.719
I do not need other exercises after paddling out on 10 foot ocean beach.

00:47:16.094 --> 00:47:16.355
Yeah.

00:47:17.834 --> 00:47:18.164
Yeah.

00:47:18.164 --> 00:47:19.554
No, I, I, I'm with you.

00:47:19.554 --> 00:47:26.224
I think, uh, I think, um, the desire to do these things, I think that is paramount.

00:47:26.254 --> 00:47:32.904
And I think everything else kind of follows like what you talked about, you know, doing, doing rehab.

00:47:32.904 --> 00:47:34.105
I I've seen that myself.

00:47:34.134 --> 00:47:38.784
I actually stopped surfing for a year and a half because I thought I had one shoulder for the garner.

00:47:38.784 --> 00:47:43.944
I'm 44 and I injured the shoulder climbing at a crack in Yosemite many years ago.

00:47:45.579 --> 00:48:00.149
My author told me that short of a full shoulder replacement, uh, you know, a few years down, I, I shouldn't use it for, uh, these kinds of sports and long story short, I found a great, uh, I found that was bullshit.

00:48:00.299 --> 00:48:01.089
Yeah, that was bullshit.

00:48:01.559 --> 00:48:07.980
So I got, and then what's the other thing that I did in my case was I've had, uh, I finally like I've had a timing coach.

00:48:08.174 --> 00:48:15.534
The last few years and took me through this assessment and they told me that I basically have a very big shoulder.

00:48:16.244 --> 00:48:32.394
So the rehab that they had me doing to get stronger for climbing, got my shoulders stronger and mobile enough that in a recent trip and a trip last month to the, to the Dominican Republic, which I went to do something else.

00:48:33.094 --> 00:48:35.974
I actually paddled out, you know, tentatively.

00:48:36.144 --> 00:48:36.794
And then I.

00:48:36.869 --> 00:48:47.879
And then I surfed every day of the 10 days I was there and I was like, wow, I'm like, I, I see you.

00:48:49.114 --> 00:48:59.224
I, I really started believing that, you know, that adage where it's really, you have to listen to your body and you have to like, you know, look beyond what the medical experts might tell you.

00:48:59.694 --> 00:49:09.914
Having said that, any coaches or therapists or any such professionals that you want to give a shout out to in this call?

00:49:12.154 --> 00:49:20.444
Um, well, I have an orthopedist Dave Eck and he's a surfer, really good surfer.

00:49:21.084 --> 00:49:24.344
And so he thinks a lot about shoulders and surfing.

00:49:25.459 --> 00:49:41.139
And so he's been, he's been both a great source of advice, but also, uh, also, um, you know, treatment and when they needed it.

00:49:41.379 --> 00:49:47.329
And, um, but actually it's so interesting you bring that up.

00:49:47.349 --> 00:49:51.959
I'm looking for, um, really good coaching.

00:49:52.359 --> 00:49:56.109
Now, I've had some good, um, I can't even remember their names.

00:49:56.109 --> 00:50:00.849
I had some, two years ago, I had some people help me with some really good work on shoulders.

00:50:01.739 --> 00:50:03.549
But honestly, I think it was pretty generic.

00:50:03.599 --> 00:50:10.500
I just needed somebody to give me some well known stuff so I know I was going to be reporting back into them.

00:50:11.319 --> 00:50:24.969
But I wish like hell I had sort of discovered coaching a long time ago because I've been doing, you know, that Cirque athlete guide you run into him on online.

00:50:25.659 --> 00:50:26.379
What's the name again?

00:50:26.379 --> 00:50:27.419
I can't even remember his name.

00:50:27.799 --> 00:50:28.709
He has a program.

00:50:28.709 --> 00:50:31.149
Oh, Cirque Mastery.

00:50:31.149 --> 00:50:33.399
No, Cirque athlete.

00:50:34.349 --> 00:50:35.399
Um, okay.

00:50:35.399 --> 00:50:36.939
There's probably a lot of guys, but the.

00:50:37.594 --> 00:50:41.834
I realized, for example, is this the guy who's based out in Moray?

00:50:42.974 --> 00:50:47.174
No, I went to that guy who does paddling coaching.

00:50:47.234 --> 00:50:47.824
Oh, yeah.

00:50:47.824 --> 00:50:50.484
I did you hear about him from Josh Weezy?

00:50:50.484 --> 00:50:52.744
Because I heard about it from Josh Weezy.

00:50:52.744 --> 00:50:57.875
Yeah, and I went to see him and he was wonderful.

00:50:58.299 --> 00:51:04.309
And what I learned, I mean, I learned two things that made a huge difference.

00:51:04.389 --> 00:51:11.189
I learned that I'd been reaching too far, basically pushing water down instead of pushing myself forward.

00:51:11.189 --> 00:51:14.239
And you hear that and you're like, well, I've been an idiot.

00:51:15.029 --> 00:51:17.730
And then I was, I was probably.

00:51:18.054 --> 00:51:29.334
At least on some of my boards sitting too far back and pushing water forward as I pound and when he got me, he got me, uh, got my way forward into the board to point.

00:51:29.334 --> 00:51:31.144
It felt like, wow, this is too far.

00:51:31.184 --> 00:51:32.254
But in fact.

00:51:32.684 --> 00:51:36.314
He kind of showed me that, wow, this board's a lot flatter.

00:51:37.244 --> 00:51:45.614
And he also said, showed me how to, you know, I needed to keep my head down because that brought the front of the board up and I was pushing water again.

00:51:46.084 --> 00:52:08.264
And I realized that probably some of my shoulder arthritis has had to do with that dumb thing of Reaching way forward, thinking you're cranking, but some of your stroke is just pushing down and think of what that does, what kind of pressure that puts on your shoulder for, well, I, you know, 3000 strokes in a huge session.

00:52:08.944 --> 00:52:21.944
So I just, and, and then, and then I realized, okay, my, my takeoff is, is sort of deteriorating and it never was, it's always been the sketchiest part of my circuit.

00:52:23.174 --> 00:52:32.564
And you just learned to take off back in the day by kind of watching some people and you would hop up on the beach some, and then you would try it.

00:52:33.434 --> 00:52:36.544
And so then I found this, this surf athlete guy.

00:52:36.544 --> 00:52:38.954
I wish I could remember his name because I should give him credit.

00:52:39.769 --> 00:52:58.909
Um, and he has this program called the perfect pop up and he gives you all of these mobility things to do and exercise things, but he's mostly teaching you the motion and probably some people, some surfers have seen that video from Slater's surf ranch, where he does slo mo and all these pros take off.

00:52:59.239 --> 00:53:00.459
I have seen that video.

00:53:00.459 --> 00:53:05.569
I've, I have, I didn't know that that was that, uh, individual, but yes, I have seen that particular video.

00:53:06.149 --> 00:53:07.719
I worship that video.

00:53:07.919 --> 00:53:08.839
And, um.

00:53:10.159 --> 00:53:53.144
And it was hilarious, this guy, okay, here's how, here's the dumb way to do many people at this pop ups and it was as if somebody videoed me and then I saw that the, you know, and sort of two step, but first way, elegant way to pop up and I'm trying to learn, I'm trying to learn the pop up all over again, like tear it down to the bearings and rebuild it and it's, It's super fun, but it's shocking after all this time, how hard it is to something I'm getting good at in my living room to 200 yards that way.

00:53:53.914 --> 00:54:02.134
And Kevin, just so people understand, you know, um, so by the way, uh, the pop up is also my weakest link.

00:54:02.849 --> 00:54:10.289
And I've only been at it for like a decade and you've been doing this for several decades now, surfing that is.

00:54:10.679 --> 00:54:17.539
And I think the point I want to, I want to come across is that it's never too late.

00:54:18.839 --> 00:54:34.199
to re examine what might be a permanent habit, what might be something that we think is sheer proofed, and find an opportunity to deconstruct and to improve it.

00:54:34.199 --> 00:54:45.429
So without geeking out on this too much, Man, you and I need to get together after this and talk about pop ups and talk about shoulder arthritis because you have a kindred spirit in me.

00:54:46.230 --> 00:54:54.079
I would love to learn, love to learn what you've been doing and I can share whatever couple of things that, uh, that, uh, that I've been doing.

00:54:54.629 --> 00:55:04.750
Um, uh, one thing, yeah, one thing that I wanted to kind of look at is, you know, taking, uh, taking another step is, um, Habits, right?

00:55:04.859 --> 00:55:23.299
Um, you spoke about some of these habits you have about being diligent with your rehab and looking at any, any other, let's say beliefs or behaviors in the last decade, you think has had the most profound impact on, uh, you?

00:55:29.129 --> 00:55:39.009
Um, yeah, some we should have in a private conversation, but, um.

00:55:41.054 --> 00:55:56.804
I think one of the main things is just taking sleep yet again more seriously, and I'm not an awesome sleeper by nature, and then there's jet lag, and I've gotten really disciplined about my jet lag routine.

00:55:57.934 --> 00:56:20.514
And I have, uh, I have, um, gotten more disciplined, uh, you know, that thing of sleep on the side of midnight is often more valuable and just taking serious sleep more seriously and making sure I have an eight, eight, eight hour cargo carving out for that.

00:56:20.654 --> 00:56:29.404
I think it seemed to feel best with about seven and a half, and then I have to carve out eight if I want to hit it and some nights I still can't sleep.

00:56:30.459 --> 00:56:54.259
Occasionally, and it's a work in progress and I do have a routine around it and I don't look at, don't look at devices, you know, uh, for at least the last half hour before I go to bed, if not, not better on and, uh, you know, cold, cool and quiet and comfortable.

00:56:55.064 --> 00:57:02.304
And zero light, because again and again, the research shows that any little bit of light decreases the quality.

00:57:02.324 --> 00:57:06.144
So I've been taking sleep stuff really seriously.

00:57:07.094 --> 00:57:07.605
Super cool.

00:57:07.605 --> 00:57:19.234
Um, I'm probably, yeah, I can't stand trying to do My life does not make eating any certain way super difficult.

00:57:20.114 --> 00:57:22.084
And, um, again, I'm lazy.

00:57:22.114 --> 00:57:24.855
Don't, don't want to spend a bunch of time preparing food.

00:57:24.855 --> 00:57:29.834
And, um, you know, I don't always order in the restaurant.

00:57:30.375 --> 00:57:31.694
I order what's tasty.

00:57:33.614 --> 00:57:39.954
And so, yeah, I mean, I feel like, I feel like I could, I, there's a lot I could do about diet that I haven't.

00:57:40.664 --> 00:57:59.605
I was actually going to ask you about that, uh, Kevin, um, any, any, um, any food routines, uh, any, I know you travel a lot, so I'm sure to, to some degree it's hard for you to manage your diet, but other than that, like you, you take any supplements?

00:57:59.734 --> 00:58:02.964
Are you, you avoid certain foods?

00:58:04.504 --> 00:58:05.404
I do.

00:58:05.494 --> 00:58:08.234
So I seem to always be trying to heal something.

00:58:08.234 --> 00:58:10.014
I take magnesium and vitamin D.

00:58:12.144 --> 00:58:17.829
Um, and again, you know, I've been looking at, at, uh.

00:58:19.429 --> 00:58:36.759
Paul Metformin, and Resveratrol, and NMN, some of these things would have some good data behind them in terms of the longevity research, and I'm, you know, part of me gets discouraged, like, oh God, I'd be carding all that stuff all over the world.

00:58:37.539 --> 00:58:43.409
Um, I'm, I'm, I'm gonna, I'm gonna go ahead with that.

00:58:43.599 --> 00:58:46.059
I'm gonna give God a go, because there's good data behind it.

00:58:46.369 --> 00:58:51.259
The guy who wrote Lifespan, he's got his name, David Sinclair maybe?

00:58:51.259 --> 00:58:51.334
I don't know.

00:58:52.034 --> 00:58:58.474
David, yeah, he's a serious, you know, he's a serious scientist and kind of, why not?

00:58:58.514 --> 00:59:03.634
I don't want to regret it later and you know, one of the things he says, it's never too late to start.

00:59:04.594 --> 00:59:06.034
Um, I've got.

00:59:07.250 --> 00:59:20.689
You know, I've got these two stepdaughters that are, are super close to and they're, they're taking up climbing and surfing respectively, and I'd like to be doing this stuff with them as long as I can.

00:59:20.719 --> 00:59:25.539
And, you know, my stepdaughter and her boyfriend are getting better at climbing really fast.

00:59:25.549 --> 00:59:28.649
So have a couple of rope guns in the family pretty soon.

00:59:29.779 --> 00:59:31.069
We love going together.

00:59:31.279 --> 00:59:38.889
So whatever I can do to keep doing that, so I might even stop eating ice cream and cheese if I have to.

00:59:41.234 --> 00:59:59.984
That would be, uh, the ultimate sacrifice, uh, but for a good cause, but the, you know, the other thing is, um, just staying happy and two of the things that really helped you stay happy or meaningful work and relationships.

01:00:00.504 --> 01:00:05.744
And I put, I've always put a lot into work that luckily for me is super meaningful.

01:00:06.314 --> 01:00:08.764
Um, and I've always had good.

01:00:09.125 --> 01:00:20.554
Good relationships, but I'm actually putting that much more effort into them, not in some kind of mechanical way to get it happier, but just, you just realize they're important in all kinds of levels.

01:00:20.614 --> 01:00:28.564
And that's been a little bit of a tough one, climbing, because maybe there's some listeners.

01:00:29.914 --> 01:00:34.684
I love Baupin climbing most, and I love long routes in the Sierra most.

01:00:35.609 --> 01:00:47.819
And I'm super picky about, um, who I go with, you know, obviously you got to be safe and, you know, if they're better than me, you can do harder routes.

01:00:47.819 --> 01:00:50.969
If I'm better, we can do whatever routes I can do.

01:00:51.619 --> 01:00:58.924
But mostly I want to, I want to be, uh, Have a better friend when we get back.

01:01:01.694 --> 01:01:32.819
Yeah, I know, Kevin, you know, you're, you're preaching to the choir, like, as I get old, I also get a little prickly about, uh, people I climb with, especially again, when it comes to doing longer trips to, uh, to more involved climbs, because as I shared with somebody the other day, you know, when I was, Getting into climbing, the stroke of just being able to do routes I love was enough for me to tolerate really anybody on the other end of the rope.

01:01:33.289 --> 01:01:54.974
But now when I go climbing, like I want the whole thing to be a rich experience, the planning, the anticipations, the co planning, the drive to the crag, the shared meal after, and of course the actual climbing, like I want the whole thing to be an amazing experience.

01:01:55.004 --> 01:02:08.375
And if, if I think I'm not going to get, uh, that to some degree, I would almost not wanna go on that climbing trip because, you know, time is precious.

01:02:08.394 --> 01:02:30.514
And I think, I think My richest friendships have come from the world of climbing and, uh, and yeah, I think, uh, people in my world, like people such as yourself, uh, and others, uh, I think are inspirations and I would only want to deepen those further and, and take those, uh, take those ahead.

01:02:30.694 --> 01:02:32.804
Yeah, a hundred percent.

01:02:32.804 --> 01:02:40.264
And I, you know, the last I'm hoping to find some good partners, you know, I have my longtime partner.

01:02:40.864 --> 01:02:59.194
Michael Reaser and we've climbed Peru and the Alps a lot and Sierra and you know he's, he's just had a baby or his wife had a baby and he's getting into paragliding which is a really smart thing to do here in this neighborhood because you can Do it when we're surfing is shitty.

01:02:59.844 --> 01:03:08.484
And, um, and, uh, he's a busy guy too, but I, I, I am looking actively looking for.

01:03:10.149 --> 01:03:31.369
Alpine partners that want to do long moderates and just love the whole mountain experience because, um, and I've really enjoyed this, but the last decade has been mostly climbing long stuff myself, you know, the North Ridge of K'ness, the West Ridge of K'ness, East Glide of Whitney, the North Ridge of Lone Pine Peak.

01:03:32.119 --> 01:03:42.209
Um, and kind of tired of that, for sure, for sure.

01:03:42.709 --> 01:03:50.189
Um, Kevin, um, here's a, here's a, uh, uh, you know, you've had all these great friendships over the years.

01:03:51.089 --> 01:03:56.209
What might be, what might be great gift?

01:03:57.269 --> 01:04:12.319
That you have given somebody in, in that, in that, um, in that realm, any realm, any realm.

01:04:15.569 --> 01:04:30.000
Well, I mean, I probably, you know, the most rewarding experiences from that regard of giving have been with these, the most wonderful people on earth, these people who founded organizations that are going to have tremendous impact in the world.

01:04:31.069 --> 01:04:33.609
And there's a lot of them that I've had.

01:04:35.250 --> 01:04:57.079
Mentoring relationships that went well beyond my sort of job description and it's unbelievably satisfying because they're in it and it's like most things that I do it's, it's pretty selfish and that it's, it's its own reward, but I think that I think that I've given a lot of them have told me later about support I gave them when perhaps.

01:04:57.954 --> 01:04:59.424
Others weren't.

01:04:59.664 --> 01:05:04.214
And, and they needed somebody to have shape to them for sure.

01:05:04.274 --> 01:05:19.684
Um, and I think I never pushed my stepdaughters to do these things, but I see them, I know, I know I played a role in them, taking them up and like so many, I see all the positive effects it has in their lives.

01:05:21.384 --> 01:05:29.174
Beautiful I, I also see I also see the career that the youngest one is gonna take, and I give it thumbs up.

01:05:33.694 --> 01:05:34.304
Nice.

01:05:34.784 --> 01:05:35.355
Nice.

01:05:35.814 --> 01:05:46.894
What about, uh, maybe the corollary, which is maybe what's a great gift that you have received that, uh, has made an impact on you?

01:05:49.974 --> 01:06:00.384
Well, uh, you know, Mark Miniker became my, was, was set up to be my mentor in medicine.

01:06:01.144 --> 01:06:06.014
Um, and that ended up, you know, we hit it off.

01:06:06.044 --> 01:06:09.154
And so I ended up bailing on medicine.

01:06:09.639 --> 01:06:21.024
medical school, which I, I basically I couldn't stand, I couldn't sit through stuff, and just going to his clinic and kind of learning by, in a closely supervised way of doing.

01:06:21.884 --> 01:06:25.694
And, you know, he didn't have to teach me how to surf big waves.

01:06:27.074 --> 01:06:30.024
That was a real, that was a, that was a huge gift.

01:06:30.105 --> 01:06:39.034
And, um, and, um, and interestingly, Mark is an inveterate explorer.

01:06:39.034 --> 01:06:44.134
And as soon as well suits got, got better and better, he started exploring really cold water places.

01:06:45.924 --> 01:06:48.625
And I love exploring and I don't mind coal.

01:06:48.774 --> 01:07:01.434
And, um, you know, we've ended up, he and a married band of others have ended up, you know, going around Iceland and going to Antarctica and going all over the Aleutians and the Alaskan panhandle.

01:07:03.194 --> 01:07:03.644
Um.

01:07:04.054 --> 01:07:07.564
That was a gift because I went to a bunch of places I never would have gone otherwise.

01:07:08.184 --> 01:07:15.954
And so many people have taught me stuff that, you know, taking the time to teach me stuff in the mountains and, and the water.

01:07:16.875 --> 01:07:23.984
Um, and I've had some astonishing mentors in my, in my, um, early work life.

01:07:24.294 --> 01:07:31.875
So I've got a lot and I hope I've, I hope I've given a fraction as much.

01:07:33.014 --> 01:07:34.244
I love that answer.

01:07:37.029 --> 01:07:45.209
Yeah, it's the gifts that, that you have received and the gifts that you've given, you know, those are not one time.

01:07:46.079 --> 01:07:59.699
And those have been both the gift and the recipients have been carefully selected and curated, which means that those could not have been given to just anybody.

01:08:01.034 --> 01:08:08.284
Kevin, what is, um, you know, you've had a world of experiences with your travels, with the work that you do.

01:08:08.924 --> 01:08:19.425
Can you think of perhaps a failure, but a failure that has taught you much?

01:08:20.425 --> 01:08:32.135
I would say, um, there's not some big resounding single failure, but there's just been this low level.

01:08:33.185 --> 01:08:58.605
Non acute sense of failure and most sense that I've just never gotten good at either one of these things I love as I would like to and But it's a kind of failure that isn't it's not so terrible because for me it's accompanied by the Probably complete delusion that you know what this next year.

01:08:58.605 --> 01:09:09.685
I'll be a little better You know because like this like like um And, and I do see that as to failure.

01:09:09.685 --> 01:09:17.794
Like, um, you know, there's some song by the presidents, a band from years ago.

01:09:17.794 --> 01:09:20.744
And it's like, we're not, the song's called, we're not going to make it.

01:09:20.744 --> 01:09:25.764
And the lyrics are, cause we don't have the talent and we didn't put in the time.

01:09:26.484 --> 01:09:28.484
And it, it kind of is that, right?

01:09:28.484 --> 01:09:31.625
I don't, I'm not particularly talented as a climber or surfer.

01:09:31.625 --> 01:09:35.694
My, my climbing, my best talent is to absorb pain.

01:09:36.464 --> 01:09:43.344
And that's probably my best talent as a surfer, but I'm not particularly, I'm not particularly good at either one.

01:09:43.344 --> 01:09:52.414
And I, I know enough now that to know ways in which I could have made some different decisions.

01:09:53.094 --> 01:09:57.474
I could have got, I could have looked for and gotten coaching help.

01:09:58.014 --> 01:09:59.824
I could have worked out harder.

01:10:00.584 --> 01:10:02.314
Um, and.

01:10:04.629 --> 01:10:22.519
You know, uh, I could have hung out less on, on some climbing trips and climbed more, but, but then that's balanced off by this, this weird, weird, very constructive delusion I have that I think this year is going to be better.

01:10:22.529 --> 01:10:34.029
In fact, if I get my top up, if I could buy takeoff Doug and I could have the best year ever, maybe I'll actually work on my finger strength this year.

01:10:34.644 --> 01:10:41.954
And if I did that and my fingers got a lot stronger, maybe I could climb as well as or better than I've ever climbed.

01:10:42.264 --> 01:10:46.424
And that, that, um, I see that as a real positive.

01:10:48.074 --> 01:10:53.964
Because, you know, again, what, uh, Last year, last year, last year, I felt like I was getting there.

01:10:53.964 --> 01:10:58.274
And in January, we're just getting this amazing run of Ocean Beach Surge.

01:10:59.129 --> 01:11:30.409
And I was starting to make every one and, and then I, my board and I went on a big, big, powerful day, my board and I went in opposite directions and I was wearing one of those thick reashes that doesn't break and it pulled just wrong and it tore my medial collateral ligament and my ENOC was January 10 was the last day I, I surfed until a little while ago and okay, so this year will be the best year ever.

01:11:31.689 --> 01:11:32.059
Um.

01:11:33.079 --> 01:11:36.249
And you might as well, Kevin.

01:11:36.249 --> 01:11:44.529
Hey, um, what you, you know, uh, you call it being delusional.

01:11:44.529 --> 01:11:47.749
I think the rest of the world calls it, um, optimism.

01:11:48.429 --> 01:11:51.909
And, uh, I think I'm an internal optimist like yourselves.

01:11:51.999 --> 01:11:53.239
Uh, even though, yes.

01:11:53.674 --> 01:12:03.074
I think I'm actually more delusional than, than I, I really should, uh, should go back and think about that.

01:12:03.134 --> 01:12:04.904
Uh, but no, I think that's, that's completely true.

01:12:04.904 --> 01:12:16.774
I mean, Hey, even if we don't succeed in everything we set out to do, I think just having goals is, uh, it's 50%, you know, um, of the whole thing, um, talking of talking of.

01:12:17.734 --> 01:12:23.354
Talking of getting better in the future and, uh, talking of, uh, having some of these hopes and dreams.

01:12:24.214 --> 01:12:26.904
Here's, here's, uh, another question for you.

01:12:27.084 --> 01:12:32.234
Do you like your future or your past more?

01:12:34.984 --> 01:12:38.694
Um, future.

01:12:40.044 --> 01:12:40.244
Okay.

01:12:40.244 --> 01:12:52.284
I mean, there's much that I love in my past and there's periods of my past I wish I could do differently, but I mean, I feel consistently like in my work, I'm seeing some of my med school classes.

01:12:53.419 --> 01:12:57.609
Uh, classmates are retiring and I feel like I'm just hitting the stride.

01:12:58.779 --> 01:13:22.969
And so, yeah, I'm, I'm, um, I gotta say aging is out my mind a lot because not because I can't remain like, uh, delusional in this constructive way, but more that I just know there's, there is a certain amount of time that is my future.

01:13:23.979 --> 01:13:24.459
And.

01:13:25.069 --> 01:13:41.849
I'm going to have to accept some stuff coming forward and I want to do so gracefully, but, um, God, the possibilities are still really bright and, and I might serve better tomorrow than I did yesterday.

01:13:42.099 --> 01:13:44.669
And, uh, why not?

01:13:44.949 --> 01:13:45.959
Why not give it a go?

01:13:47.319 --> 01:13:48.189
I love that.

01:13:48.779 --> 01:13:51.689
Um, Kevin, we're nearing the end of our time here.

01:13:51.689 --> 01:13:55.579
And I know that there is still some time for a sunset surf.

01:13:57.114 --> 01:14:06.504
So I, I just want to ask you some quick, uh, fun, rapid fire type of questions, and then we can call it, uh, call it an evening.

01:14:08.014 --> 01:14:13.354
What is a favorite meal that you could eat the rest of your life?

01:14:14.824 --> 01:14:28.574
Some form of Japanese, you know, uh, just pretty basic miso and sushi and sashimi and, and, uh, I did dashi and I could.

01:14:29.009 --> 01:14:32.359
I, I, I am a person who could probably eat the same thing every night.

01:14:33.049 --> 01:14:33.569
Fair.

01:14:33.679 --> 01:14:37.979
You know, I, I turned, uh, uh, vegetarian a few years ago.

01:14:38.559 --> 01:14:45.289
I think my, uh, my biggest weakness remains, uh, good Japanese food, particularly good sushi.

01:14:46.719 --> 01:14:55.049
What is a, what, I don't know if you want to watch movies, but if you, if you do, what's a favorite movie that you could see again and again?

01:14:58.289 --> 01:15:04.689
Um, the movie, uh, my favorite movie probably of all time is Fargo.

01:15:05.599 --> 01:15:06.469
The Coen brothers.

01:15:06.519 --> 01:15:08.379
I just love the Coen brothers.

01:15:08.399 --> 01:15:20.019
And I love, you know, it's, it's, it's always a little bit over the top and it's exaggerated, but as a picture of human foibles and human nature.

01:15:21.004 --> 01:15:27.594
Um, I just love, I love those guys, and I love that particular one.

01:15:28.574 --> 01:15:32.694
With more thought I might come up with something different, but it's always the thing that pops to mind.

01:15:33.729 --> 01:15:35.189
That's a really good one.

01:15:36.709 --> 01:15:41.299
What's a, what's a music show?

01:15:41.359 --> 01:15:54.739
I don't know, again, if you go to concerts, but is there a particular concert that you went to that, uh, you will always, uh, remember?

01:15:57.424 --> 01:16:10.284
Um, I go to a lot of jazz and, uh, and I love SF Jazz Center, um, just cause how hard they're, they're working to keep jazz alive and cause the acoustics are perfect.

01:16:11.494 --> 01:16:16.024
And I went there once to hear Stanley Clark, this legendary bass, he's older than me.

01:16:16.224 --> 01:16:19.434
And he just had this, this drummer, Mike Mitchell with him.

01:16:19.474 --> 01:16:30.824
And I remember he was On keyboards, but it was just like watching the sky past the torch is both the drummer and the piano player.

01:16:30.824 --> 01:16:32.784
This guy, Mike Mitchell on drums.

01:16:33.464 --> 01:16:34.484
He's like the future.

01:16:34.624 --> 01:17:03.514
And so you are watching this beautifully disgraceful kind of Passing in the torch of one of the, the original people who took jazz bass electric and the, the utter future of, of jazz and this intentional, um, handover and I just, it sticks in my head more than any music experience I've had in years.

01:17:04.674 --> 01:17:21.964
Sounds like a, yeah, sounds like a beautiful experience and just the last question before we call it, uh, if you were to meet, uh, the, uh, 30 year old, uh, Kevin Starr, would you tell that person to do something differently?

01:17:29.124 --> 01:17:32.644
Uh, yeah, I tell myself to do a bunch of things differently.

01:17:33.454 --> 01:17:45.219
Um, one thing is I would say to myself, uh, Date anybody longer than six months until, and if you don't feel like you want to marry him.

01:17:52.089 --> 01:17:59.989
Um, I tell myself to take the thing that I really love and find a good coach for each of them.

01:18:02.174 --> 01:18:17.604
Um, and I would remind myself not to hang out with anybody who did not consistently, not all the time, but consistently leave me feeling better at goodbye than I did as hello.

01:18:20.644 --> 01:18:24.554
That's a, uh, that's a really, uh, poignant one.

01:18:25.574 --> 01:18:26.064
Yeah.

01:18:26.574 --> 01:18:26.924
Yeah.

01:18:26.974 --> 01:18:29.084
That, that, that's, that's very thoughtful.

01:18:30.784 --> 01:18:35.674
Any, uh, final words, Kevin, before we, uh, before we part?

01:18:38.574 --> 01:18:47.619
Well, I think I've made this point enough, but, um, You know, why not be optimistic and delusional, if it helps?

01:18:48.754 --> 01:18:49.434
Yes.

01:18:49.474 --> 01:18:49.984
Yes.

01:18:50.014 --> 01:18:50.544
Yes.

01:18:50.624 --> 01:19:00.064
I might actually have to christen this show, this particular episode, the, the, the optimistic and the delusional, um, FTW.

01:19:01.934 --> 01:19:02.274
Yeah.

01:19:02.794 --> 01:19:03.154
Yeah.

01:19:04.224 --> 01:19:07.414
Um, Kevin, thank you so much for coming on the show.

01:19:07.434 --> 01:19:14.119
And I know the, uh, The ocean beach, uh, just the surf scene is just beginning and I'm just getting back to it.

01:19:14.159 --> 01:19:19.829
And, uh, when the beaches, uh, is, uh, it's still not massive.

01:19:20.139 --> 01:19:22.639
Uh, yeah, I would love to, uh, paddle out with you.

01:19:24.289 --> 01:19:25.599
Oh, absolutely.

01:19:26.349 --> 01:19:27.089
Thanks so much.

01:19:27.089 --> 01:19:28.129
This is super fun.

01:19:28.239 --> 01:19:29.179
You're doing a good thing here.

01:19:30.019 --> 01:19:30.579
Thanks a lot.

01:19:31.529 --> 01:19:31.949
Goodbye.

01:19:37.499 --> 01:19:38.089
Wow.

01:19:38.469 --> 01:19:39.939
What a great conversation.

01:19:40.569 --> 01:19:42.409
Many things stood out to me.

01:19:42.929 --> 01:19:46.069
Balance in our lives is perhaps a myth.

01:19:46.769 --> 01:19:48.629
There are only choices.

01:19:49.549 --> 01:19:58.109
Kevin manages to deftly weave in athletic pursuits during his world travels to far flung corners of the globe.

01:19:58.999 --> 01:20:12.269
He shared some great tips on being flexible with a choice of exercise as well as listening to both one's body and the mind when healing from injuries.

01:20:13.669 --> 01:20:23.709
Kevin's zeal to pursue a life of purpose while also pushing that reach of human exploration is infectious.

01:20:24.799 --> 01:20:38.204
Finally, words that stuck out to me were To spend time with people who consistently make us feel better at a goodbye than they do at hello.

01:20:40.064 --> 01:20:40.724
Funny, huh?

01:20:41.914 --> 01:21:00.264
Offline, Kevin wanted me to extend gratitude to his wife, who is happily supportive of his sports, as well as Halifetico, his 82 year old body worker who has helped him tremendously.

01:21:01.184 --> 01:21:02.654
Thanks for tuning in friends.

01:21:03.234 --> 01:21:09.884
If you enjoyed the show, please subscribe, like, and share with others.

01:21:11.034 --> 01:21:12.804
And don't forget to leave a review rating.

01:21:13.494 --> 01:21:16.234
Until next time, stay ageless.