#77 Still Racing at 73: Triathlon’s Wild Origins, Daily Rituals For Recovery, Energy, Clarity, and Why Sport Is the Real Fountain of Youth

Ageless Athlete - Bob Babbitt
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Kush: ~Bob, how are you? ~

~I'm good. How are you? ~

Kush: ~I am excellent. I am admiring your beautiful shirt. ~

~Perfect.~

Bob: ~Working. Oh, there we go. I think it works. ~

Kush: ~Perfect. Yeah, I got you. You just shifted your microphone? ~

Bob: ~Um, I don't know what I did, but it sounds better. Does it sound okay for you? ~

Kush: ~It sounds super. Yeah, loud and clear. Well, great to meet you, Bob. Great to meet you too. A pleasure. Um, thanks so much for making the time to come on Asia's Athlete this morning.~

Bob: ~Not a problem. Happy to join you. ~

Kush: ~Excellent. Just, um, quick introduction. My name is Kush. I am from India originally, but had been in San Francisco forever and started the ageless athlete bucket because. I wanted to inspire others around me who are getting older. I want to continue to, uh, to push themselves and, you know, chase those, uh, dreams in the outdoors.~

~My background is I, I have been rock climbing most of my life. I surf as well. So I started this out of, let's say, my own challenges. And my own growth journey and yeah, it's so great to have you on, um, logistics wise, I understand you also hosted a podcast, so this should be all had to you, but, uh, I can edit anything we speak about.~

~So if you need to enter the door or use the restroom, you can absolutely, uh. I feel free to do that. Any questions you have for me, Bob, before we get started? Just, ~

Bob: ~um, how long, uh, how long do we usually go? ~

Kush: ~You know, I ask people to block two hours, though rarely we touch that. So, I would say that when I, when I met with Ned, Ned had some really delightful things to share.~

~I think we almost reached two hours. Not the recording itself, but the, but the slot. But, uh, we can be done here, uh, a lot sooner than that. Okay. We can do a time check. I can ask you in the middle. Hey, you know, we have crossed an hour of, uh, ch ch chatting. Can we keep going or, or not? Okay. Sure.~

~Super, Bob. Um, I always like to start off with this question, which is where are you right now? And what did you have for breakfast? Okay. ~

Bob: ~So, uh,~ [00:00:00] I'm at my home in Carlsbad, California, uh, got up at, five and did my, uh, I go to a place called breathe degrees where we do, uh, did about 35 minutes infrared sauna and about 15 minutes in the, uh, cold 40 degree cold plunge, and then another, uh, then got another 20 minutes back in the, uh, infrared.

Uh, so on. So that's, and then came home and, my wife makes these amazing muffins with flaxseed, uh, almond, almond flour, and, uh, have those with, grapes and tangerines. 

Kush: what? Delightful start. Is this part of your normal routine? Are you doing this every day?

Pretty much. 

Bob: Yeah. I like the cold plunge opens at five 30 in the morning. So, uh, the breathing piece opens at five 30 morning. I love getting over there first thing. Um, it's just a really nice way to start the day. And I really started going there. [00:01:00] In July, because I had to have, uh, I had a back surgery, the first surgery I've ever had, I had a, um, the nerve, nerve root and, um, the disc T4.

issue there. So I have surgery and I couldn't do anything. I couldn't really do as in a lot of pains. I couldn't do much beforehand. And a friend suggests going to cold plunge because then everything would get numb and I wouldn't feel a pain. And that's I started doing that before. And then I found it really helpful for rehab afterwards.

And anytime I'm in town, I usually go twice a day, for, you know, in the morning and then later in the afternoon as well. 

Kush: Wow, twice a day, which sounds like it has dual benefits, uh, benefits to your journey as an athlete, but also in helping you rehab from this, uh, yeah, critical surgery. Besides this [00:02:00] renewed focus on the cold plunging and the sauna routine, have you actually been doing this kind of therapy for much longer than you've had your surgery? 

Bob: Yeah, that started in July. I really had not done cold or sauna. I mean, you know, if you're in a resort, you jump into a sauna, but it wasn't a regular part of a routine, but it is, it is now.

And it's been it's been wonderful. So then you meet nice people, but it's uh, it was is a great way to Because you're gonna have to ice your back Anyway, so why not sit in a sit in 40 degrees and talk to people at the same time makes a lot more fun 

Kush: I I could use I would need every type of distraction on the planet to be able to survive I wouldn't.

Very good. 

Bob: Yeah. I wouldn't be very good gooding in, uh, doing it on my own. Having a cold plunge thing at the house, I don't think I would use it. It's the social part is what [00:03:00] makes it enjoyable. 

Kush: Such an excellent point. For anybody listening who's thinking about investing the, the dollars into a cold plunge unit, you know, it might end.

Just as treadmills and stationary bikes ended up, you know, for like hanging racks for for laundry Bob it is such an honor to have you on this podcast Particularly because I think you might be the first, um, bonafide triathlete. We, we have, we've had people on the podcast who have done, done triathlons, done different types of, um, multi sport endurance events, but first, but, but to have you who has had this, let's say this iconic status, this full time status in the world of, Triathlons is, uh, yeah, such a, such an honor.

I understand [00:04:00] that your journey into triathlons started way back when I believe you were there in 1980 racing. Iron Man before most people even knew what a triathlon was. So take us back. What was it like stepping into an event so raw, um, maybe experimental where no one really knew what it was humanly possible to finish that?

Bob: Well, we, uh, it's funny at the time in 70, 1978, I moved here. to San Diego from Chicago, and then Ned Overen, who went on to become world mountain bike champion, but mountain bikes hadn't been invented back then. Uh, the two of us met rock climbing down in Mexico and we became roommates, and then we read in 1979 in [00:05:00] an article in Sports Illustrated, uh, about this thing called the Ironman.

And in 78, 15 people had started it and 12 finished and the same in 79. So it's not like it was catching on. Uh, but the fascinating part was.

We read the article in 79, again, it was like an 8 to 10 page article in Sports Illustrated, which was sort of the Bible for all of us back then. And it's like, why would there be such a long article on such a teeny event? 15 idiots. And it's a 2. 4 mile swim and a little history. Is there had been a, um, article earlier in 77 and Sports Illustrated that said that the world's best endurance athlete was, um, Eddie Merckx, who had won the one to tour France five times.

And, so there was a [00:06:00] event on the island of Oahu called the perimeter relay. And John Collins, uh, who had learned about the sport of triathlon when he lived in Coronado with his family. The early triathlons were held at Fiesta Island starting in 74 in San Diego. He and his family had done these events.

So they just did this run around the island of Oahu, a relay run, and the article on Eddie Merckx had come out, and all of them started arguing about, well, wait a second. Why is a cyclist the greatest endurance athlete? We're runners. Why can't it be us? And we all, and if you're living on an island, you're sort of doing swimming, you're doing cycling, you're doing running as a, as a group.

And so after this argument was going on for a while, John Collins gets up and goes, listen, we're going to find out once and for all who the best endurance athlete, we're going to take the Waikiki rough water swim 2. 4 miles. The around a Wahoo bike ride, 112 miles. And the [00:07:00] Honolulu Marathon, which is 26. 2 miles, we'll put all three of them together and we'll call the winner the Ironman.

And then he promptly sat down and forgot about it. And then, since he was working in the Navy over there, uh, uh, one of the guys there kept saying, Sir, when are we going to do that iron thing, sir? So, in, uh, in February of 1978, He put on the first ever Ironman triathlon and in 79 it happened again And we read the article and the guy who won it in 79 Was a guy named tom warren who lived here in san diego and he put on an event called the tug swim run swim Ned and I had done and it was it was one of those classic events.

It was a half mile swim around This crystal pier in San Diego, a five mile run on the beach, and he swam around the pier again and but you didn't stop at the finish line. Tom Warren owned a thing called Tug's Tavern. So the idea was you came across the [00:08:00] finish line and ran a few more blocks to his tavern because the first 75 people got breakfast, right?

You got breakfast, runny eggs and a glass, a Tug's glass. And that's what the bragging rights were because you were standing there with your breakfast and your glass when the 76 guy got there and got nothing. So that, that was, that was a draw. Ned and I would do that event. So anyways, we called Tom Warnop and said, you know, Mr.

Warren, sir, can you tell us about this iron thing? Because it's not like you go online and find out how to do it, where to do it. How do you train? Nobody knew. So Tommy goes, Hey, yeah, Babbit, come down to my office, which is just south of crystal pier on the West side of the street. So I, I go down there with Ned and we're like, there's no buildings there.

There's a motorhome, right? There's a parking lot and there's a bike on the back of this, of this motorhome And there's a paddleboard on top and there's running shoes tied around the side [00:09:00] view mirror on the outside And, uh, Tommy's like, Babbit, welcome to my office. And he had a pay phone behind him. So he, you know, he owned a tavern.

So he would go for a swim and go for a paddle in the ocean, get a five mile run in, pay phone behind him, go call and order chips or salsa or other crap for his, for his bar, and then he'd go ride his bike up to Oceanside and back and. So he was doing this triathlon stuff, just how is his lifestyle, that's what he's doing.

So he invites us to the bar, this is 9 30 in the morning, the bar behind, uh, behind his motor home called T. D. Hayes, and Ned and I are sitting there. And again, this is our mentor. This is a guy who's going to show us how to do this thing. And he's got, he's drinking beer, 9 30 in the morning. And then he's got a magic marker.

He's got this magic marker, like, and every time he takes a drink, he makes a mark on his arm. And I'm like, Mr. Warren, sir, What's the deal [00:10:00] with the magic marker? He goes, well, I have a little bit of a drinking problem. When I get to my sleeve, I go home. We're like, Oh, okay. You are an absolute crazy person.

Then he took us to his house and he had a bike mounted in the sauna and he'd ride five hours a day in the sauna. you know, to get ready for the heat of Hawaii. So Ned and I went to a police auction and we bought bikes at a police auction. My bike was 75 bucks. The whole back end was burnt in a fire and covered that up with duct tape.

And, you know, both of us really didn't know what this thing was. I, all I knew was that I put, was going to put panniers, sleeping bag and tent on the bike because I thought you swam 2. 4, rode 56, camped out. road back the next day, and then ran the marathon. And, you know, we had no idea that you're supposed to do a whole thing in one day.

That was the silliest thing ever. In fact, when we went over there to do the event, Ned's girlfriend, Pam, who, and that he ended up marrying, [00:11:00] she lost him in the first half mile of the bike. So, when she finally caught 90, he was in the median strip drinking out of sprinklers. Uh, cause she hadn't had any aid in 90 miles, right?

Yeah, my crew gave me a big mac fries and a coke at mile 25. You had your own support crew Rip your snow cone at mile 90 Then when I came off the bike, uh, I heard this music and I saw this, you know, boombox and a bamboo mat, and I'm like, what's going on? My crew was like, how about a massage? I'm like, you know what?

I could use a massage. I had a 45 minute massage between a bike and a run. Probably the longest transition in in Ironman history. Yeah, it felt great. And they had, they had a scale set up along the bike ride and a run because they came up with some science. I don't know where they came up with it. They would have you get off the bike and get [00:12:00] weighed and, you know, and during a run, same thing.

If you lost 5 percent of your body weight, they pulled you out of the race because they thought it was dangerous. But again, nobody knew what we were doing. So, I get off the bike, and who knew nutrition back then? I had Hawaiian sweet bread and Gatorade. That was, that's what I had. My crew was giving me that.

So I get weighed as we start the run, and then I'm drinking Gatorade, and eating, eating Hawaiian sweet bread, and I get to about mile five. And you get on the scale and I could hear the guy in a walkie talkie. He's like, Hey, can you give me that again? The guy's gained five pounds. What's he doing?

So then we're running along in the last part of the run, you run up diamond head and you run down into Capilani park. And I'm running up diamond head. My crew is behind me when they're Fiat convertible lighting up the road. And I'm thinking to myself, this is the coolest thing. I didn't know I could do this.

I was going to do this in two days. I'm going to finish this in one day. [00:13:00] And I'm running up diamond head, the crews behind me. I started thinking there's going to be. Cheerleaders at the finish of all sorts of excitement. I can't wait to get there. It's gonna be awesome I come running into the park. I look up.

There's like a light bulb above me There's a chalk line on the road and I hear a voice in the darkness. It's like hey you yeah you in the race Yeah, you're done. That's it Cuz that guy sitting in a park one guy doing one arm push ups and me that was it's like But it was something about that event that I finished it and I was like, I changed my perception of me.

I knew that I now had this business card that told me I could accomplish anything. I could change my perception of myself. So I just became an evangelist for this silly sport of triathlon and, was teaching school at the time, went to work for a magazine called running news. Convinced the, the editor to change it to running a triathlon news based on [00:14:00] the 180 idiots who had just done the Ironman, you know, with me in 1980.

And, uh, that led to starting competitor magazine and led to everything else that, uh, that we've accomplished led to the challenge athletes foundation led to breakfast with Bob and all the other stuff we've done over the years.

Kush: Bob, what a journey. So this is 1980. Yeah. And this is like 45 odd years ago. I thought it might actually behoove us to take a quick step back and to, educate us for someone who thinks triathlons, or maybe Ironman. I just for superhumans. Can you break it down? What is, I know it's, it's a, it's a simplistic question, but what is a triathlon?

What is again, an Ironman and are [00:15:00] there any other variations of the event? 

Bob: Yeah, lots, lots of variations, which is why I still love it. So I've done, I've done at least one triathlon every year since 1978. Um, and like this, I did a race in Pasadena two weeks ago. There was a, started with a five day run around the Rose bowl, then a nine mile bike ride.

around three loops around Rose Bowl. And then you ran over to the pool. You swam, you know, 150, 200 yards in the pool. That's a triathlon, right? Anybody can do it. And that's what's so cool about it. You've got events like that. You have Olympic distance, which is a 1500 m swim, a 40 K bike, a 10 K run and called the Olympic distance because all of those are Olympic distance.

There's Olympic event, a 1500 m swim. There's a 40k time trial, and then there's the, uh, 10k run so that that actually [00:16:00] those distances were really instrumental in getting triathlon into the Olympics triathlon became an Olympic sport in 2000 the first triathlon was 1974 first Ironman was 78. So that's not a long journey to become an Olympic sport, you know, by tooth action and been accepted as an Olympic sport by 94, I think, or so.

So really you're talking about 20 years from the first ever triathlon to being accepted into the Olympic games, which is pretty amazing. So the, but there was, then there's the Ironman distance, which obviously is what started in Oahu in 1978. And, you know, in seven in in, uh, 2028 will be celebrating 50 years.

I wrote the coffee table books on the 25th anniversary, the 30th anniversary, the 40th anniversary. And there's just some, there's a mystique to the Ironman World Championships in Hawaii that is just, you know, because this [00:17:00] Dave Scott raced down, you know, John, Dave Scott, John Howard, Scott Tinley, all the legends raced on that course.

And when you walk down these steps into the bay where they do the Ironman swim, every Ironman world champion has walked down those same steps right there. There's something about it when, and you, you hear of pay and save hill. And the Mamooku wins and the Queen K Highway. There's all this mystique associated with the event that's well deserved.

It's, it's one of those things that the course has not changed much over the years. So the times matter when somebody, when Patrick Lange became the first guy to go under eight hours there. Or Paul Newby Frazier became the first one to go under nine hours for, for women back in the day. It's, you know, there's so much fun history there.

But it's, it's one of those things that this, as a sport has grown, you have the full Ironman, then you have Ironman 70. 3, which is like a half distance. And it's become, you know, [00:18:00] one of the more popular sports in the world. It's, uh, it changes people's lives. And what I like about it is, is for a hyperactive kid, it is the best sport and a kid of all ages.

So if you're out there and you start to swim, there's some trepidation. Oh my God, I'm jumping into this, this body of water. It could be cold. It could be dark. There could be big fish, right? Someone could be playing bongos on your head. There's all this, this scary stuff. Well, then all of a sudden, you're swimming along and you're feeling pretty good.

And then you get to a point where you're thinking, Oh, am I tightening up a little bit? Oh, I'm out of the water. And now I get to ride my bike. And you got on a bike and you're riding along and you're feeling, you know, loosening up. Then you're in a groove and then you're going, My neck is stiff. My back is stiff.

Oh, I get to go run. And then that toughest transition is you get off the bike and usually your legs feel like crap because they've been going in circles and now they're weight bearing and now they're like, not very happy about [00:19:00] this. But then they loosen up, then you're done. Then you're in the beer garden.

It's nine in the morning. It's, it's a good day. So that, that's what's great about the sport. It changes lives for the better. It's something anybody can do. Right? When you talk about the, the event, like I mentioned, the Pasadena race, when you're talking about three mile run and a nine mile bike ride and a 150 yard swim in a pool, it's, anybody can do our sport.

We've got a lot of welcome mat events out there that people can get into. And, you know, if you're people, I'll talk to people who swim, bike and run on a regular basis, used to do triathlons, and they consider themselves triathletes, and they might not have raced a triathlon in 20 years, but it's their lifestyle, and that's where their friends, most of their friends are people who share that, you know, you do long bike rides with people.

You become, you become very, very close from, from doing those long workouts every weekend. 

Kush: Bob, all these decades later, [00:20:00] your passion for the sport is so evident. I can just see your, your face light up and your eyes sparkle. When you talk about the Ironman, I always thought of triathlons. As more of an event Than really a sport, right?

I thought that this is something that uh, you know people They might do other sports quote unquote and they might run bike swim but then they decide that they're gonna add this like, uh, this metal this like little ribbon on their sleeve and, and go and do this, uh, triathlon event to earn the bragging rights.

But I think what you're telling us over here is that this is really a sport. in my mind. I see this bridge I need to make, which is individually, all of these feel like sports, but when you put them together, they seem. [00:21:00] Somewhat complex, you know, different sports requiring different types of skills.

I think what I hear from you is that, Hey, this is. a sport for everybody. So, so help us understand what is it about the sport that you find so approachable because some of us may think that it is not that approachable. 

Bob: You know, I, one, I think it's, it's an equal opportunity abuser.

It doesn't really care if you're big or tall or short. or wide or missing a leg or in a wheelchair. It doesn't matter. You get from point A to point B, you're triathlete. You know, you, you get to Kona and you get from point A to point B, you're an Ironman. Also, I, if you're a runner, say you're just a, you're a solid hardcore runner.

When you get to 40, 45 years old, you're not getting better, right? From there on, it's pretty much downhill. [00:22:00] A few people can, but most people, the pounding takes its toll and it's harder to run faster at 60 than you ran a 50. But as a triathlete, I can be better with, I can buy a better bike, I can get better wheels, I can get better wetsuit, I can train differently.

And the fact that you're doing swimming and cycling, you can really do less running, running is the, is the most impactful on the joints and everything else, but you can create a lot of fitness. By doing, you know, by swimming without, there's no weight bearing there for cycling unless you're, you know, unless you get hit by a car or you go down, you know, you, you're really, there's no weight bearing there either.

So it's really the, the, the, the running that is hard on your body. But you can replace a lot of those workouts. A lot of the hardcore running workouts with hardcore cycling workouts, hardcore swimming workouts. I call triathlon the fountain of youth. You can, you can be doing this sport forever. You seriously can.

[00:23:00] You can be, you know, 70, 80. I'm 73 now. Um, there's, uh, there's, you know, guys in the, we call, I call my, our age group the 70 to death. So we've got, you know, 70 to 75, 70, you know, 70, 74, 75, 79, 80, 84. And we've got some races you'll go to, there'll be, you know, 8, 10 folks in 80 to 84. And you'll have, you know, some races you'll, Bill Bell was 90 years old and he was still racing.

So it's, it is, it is a wonderful sport, the camaraderie, the community, but we'll get there in a lot of us in the, at that, what I call the, again, the 70 to death, 60 to death categories. And we're usually there really early and we'll be standing there in the racks as the sun's coming up. And it's like, why do we do this?

And it's universal because we can. You can get up early and get there and be with your [00:24:00] buddies. And again, by 8. 30, 9 o'clock in the morning, you're done. You've already done, you've already gotten this real high in your life by, by getting in a body of water, most people aren't awake yet, and then you're getting out and you're riding your bike, and then you're running, and then you're, how you're congratulating each other.

When you're in these events, you're racing against yourself, and you're racing against the course. You're not really racing against the other guys, right? They're, they're in your age group or you're not in your age group, but who cares, it's really all about you against you and, you know, so you've gotten up early, it would have been really easy to hit the snooze and not get up.

You did that, you get to the event. I mean, the, sort of the pre race stuff is really part of it. You know, it's getting your gear together, coming there. hanging out, talking story, coming up with new excuses for why you're going to have a crappy race and then, and then [00:25:00] celebrating afterwards. It's, uh, it's just, there's just something special about it.

Kush: Bob. Yeah. I mean your message about, let's say also the universality of triathlons is, is loud and clear. Can you give us a sense of where is the sport of triathlon today in terms of It's ability to reach across, let's say, age, gender, even national barriers, like how widespread and popular is the sport?

Bob: Well, being an Olympic sport means you're in a lot of countries. Uh, in Europe right now, the sport is on fire. Uh, it's doing really well. Actually, in the U. S. The numbers of participants in the sports has gone down from 2011 to 2019. I think are the number of finishers and triathlons went down from [00:26:00] 570, 000 at the peak down to 350, 000 at that point.

And then I think even during COVID, we lost a fair number of events. And this last year, I think we had 302, 000 finishers of race around the country. Still, still good numbers. But, uh, back in, when the, in the heyday of the sport, we had, uh, like an 80, we had this United States triathlon series, which was a series of events around the country, all of them, you know, mile swim.

Um, uh, mile swim, 25 mile bike ride, 10 K run. So very doable compared to the Ironman distances. And you had those in major cities, Chicago, New York, all of those, uh, all around the country. And then in the, uh, from 2006, seven till 2015 or 16, you had the lifetime fitness series. They had [00:27:00] their, their series around.

The country that had New York and Chicago, and they had a pro series called the Toyota Cup. So there's a lot of awareness. Um, you know, with competitor magazine, we had our magazine from 87 till I left in 2014. Um, you had triathletes on the cover of those magazines a few times a year, and those magazines were all over the country.

So there was an awareness of the sport that there isn't at this point, right? There's, there's, uh, you know, there, there's used to be an NBC show for the Ironman that they don't, they don't do that anymore. So it's, you know, there's, there's a lot of contributing factors why the sport is down. But I think the key is that with L.

A. 2028 coming up where triathlon will be on display in the in the Olympics in the U. S. When I look at the one of the big growth areas for us was when when we had the first ever Olympic triathlon in 2000 in Sydney, [00:28:00] that was a huge boost because triathlon was the first event of the games. And I think we, you know, we jumped to 125, 000 members of Mhm.

What was then Tri Fed, now USA Triathlon. So, there's, there's, you know, there's ebb and flow for sports. Um, I love the sport. I think it's, it changes lives for the better. Uh, Ironman is still doing really well. And Ironman 70. 3 has been a wonderful addition. Something people, you know, you, you can't fake your way through an Ironman.

You know, we're talking 112 mile bike ride. You, you better be doing those six, seven hour bike rides. You better be doing long runs. But when you're talking about a, you know, a 1. 2 mile swim, 56 mile bike ride, and a 13. 1 mile run, to finish those, that type of event, you can sort of get by on a, you know, you're riding two, three hours a couple times a week, you're going for some, you know, you're doing a couple 10Ks, you can sort of fake a half.

Um, but you can't fickle [00:29:00] fall. So, but that, which I think is one of the reasons that you've got great growth in 70. 3 races around the world, especially in Europe and Asia. There's a lot of, a lot of growth. There's a lot of, uh, a lot of potential moving forward there too. 

Kush: Bob, I believe there are now triathlon like events all over the world now.

Curious if you have. a story or like curious, actually, if you heard about a triathlon happening in some part of the world, that even took you away with the way they were able to improvise the event. 

Bob: Well, you know, it's interesting because when you think about triathlon, uh, one of the things that one of the reasons when we look at it, actually endurance events, the Ironman and the rock and roll marathon were really the first events.

where they, they made a [00:30:00] financial impact on the community. So we are from this perspective when we had, you know, running events back in the day in the eighties and nineties. The city's looked at these events as, okay, we'll give you guys a permit to block off the roads, but you're a pain in the ass, right?

You're, you're keeping people from getting to the church. You're keeping people from, um, you know, from getting the grocery. It was paying. Well, and then you had New York City Marathon, Boston Marathon, London Marathon, Boston Marathon. These marathons, huge financial impact on the cities because people are coming in to do these events and staying at hotels and renting cars and buying meals.

So the cities, when, uh, Tim Murphy was a guy who created the rock and roll marathon and we, you know, we were, um, uh, early investor in rock and roll. Uh, rock and roll started in San Diego. [00:31:00] And the event had 20, 000 people first time out, and there really hadn't been many new marathons in the, in the country.

And there had never been a marathon series, like a series of marathons. So what happened then is then, uh, Tim Murphy took, uh, they took that, the rock and roll model around the country. And the idea was, Hey, Arizona, um, we did 20, 000 people with a marathon in San Diego. If we do a marathon and a half marathon here.

In phoenix area, we'll get 30, 000 and it's like the super bowl moves around and comes back every 15 20 years to the same city This is every year. This is January. Every year, Rock and Roll Arizona is going to bring you, the first Rock and Roll Arizona had 37, 000, right? So you're talking about how many hotel nights that, so the cities start paying the events to come because of filling up hotel rooms.

That changed the [00:32:00] whole model of endurance sports and the same with the Ironman. The Ironman people come in. They might stay for five, six days, bring the family, stay at the nice hotels. So, you know, Ironman, Arizona, Ironman, Coeur d'Alene, uh, you know, Ironman started growing around the U S. And it was interesting because early on, this guy Graham Frazier was a, was the one who was putting on Ironman Canada when he was tasked to put on the first Ironman in the continental U.

S. They had Kona, but he put on Ironman Lake Placid and the thing sold out immediately. This is, you had this perfect storm of, Ironman and online registration. And coming into, you know, coming into a place like Lake Placid. So Lake Placid sells out immediately and it sells out so quickly. They add a second event in Panama city, Florida, that sells out immediately.

Next thing, you know, they're [00:33:00] adding events, you know, Ironman, Arizona, Ironman, Wisconsin, Ironman, St. George, Ironman, Coeur d'Alene. It went all, but in every model there, in every case, the cities are paying to bring the events in. for rock and roll and for Iron Man. So when they're paying, now they're a partner.

And when you're a partner, you're providing cheaper police. You know, a better cost on city services, that type of stuff. Because you want people to come. You want to fill up hotel rooms. Especially now, in nowadays, these cities are hurting. And so if you bring an event that's going to fill up hotel rooms, they're going to help you financially and in other ways to, to come there.

So your local 5k is not getting money from the city, but the Ironman and rock and roll, those type of events are. So when I look at the change in perception. [00:34:00] Of our events from a pain in the ass to Something that's going to put revenue in our pockets from the you know from the city the the cities That's a huge change and here's a a perfect example rock and roll half marathon in virginia beach virginia beach they they were having problems Uh, around Labor Day because the kids were about to start school, start college, and they would come into the city before, you know, over Labor Day weekend and put like eight, 10 kids in a room and just party.

And, you know, and basically the downtown area became a problem. Well, what happened is they brought in the, uh, uh, Virginia beach, rock and roll, Virginia beach. Next thing you know, every hotel is sold out with high end folks. And problem solved, right? The, the downtown mess before school started. Now you had these [00:35:00] people coming in and, and who are bringing revenue into the coffers for the city, rather than having, uh, issues in your downtown area with all the kids, you know, just became like spring break.

Right. So now it became, Hey, we've got these, uh, runners who are not staying. They're staying at the Four Seasons. They're staying at the really nice hotels. They are spending money on, on food and travel, et cetera. And, you know, and that became the next step in this. People will travel to do an Ironman.

People will travel to do a marathon. Will people travel to do a half marathon? Will people travel to do a Ironman 70. 3, a half Ironman? Both those companies, and it's ironic, Ironman owns both now. But back then, they were totally separate entities. And they found that, okay, people will travel for a 70. 3.

People will travel for a half marathon. So the benefit for the [00:36:00] city, you don't have to block off as many roads. And you're getting, you know, you're getting 15, 20, 000 people coming to do a half marathon, or you're getting, you know, 3000 to do a 70. 3. Perfect example, we just had the 70. 3 world championships in New Zealand and in Taupo, New Zealand.

And they had the women's race one day and the men's race the next day. There was over 6, 000 participants, like 4, 000 men and 2, 000 women. And. It was, uh, you know, the city, 6, 000 people, that's a lot of financial impact for the city. Plus, it's good quality people, right? You're talking about, you're talking about high end folks who are coming to your town, who will probably come back.

And, and what, what reason Lake Placid was so popular is people could go there and ride other, you know, if the race is in July or August. People could come starting in May and train [00:37:00] on the course, you know, get used to the course, be ready for the course. So there's hotel revenue and Airbnb revenue that's coming, not just race week.

But also other times of the year as people start training same for Kona people will go and do training camps in Kona Uh, and you know, that's another revenue stream that that the island is getting because of their association with Iron Man 

Kush: Bob, it's been yeah quite a journey and going from this like niche and quirky thing to becoming this Loved and admired sport by communities worldwide.

Sounds like a very astute move to be able to collaborate with cities, planners, urban institutions [00:38:00] to, I think what is really a win win solution. And I think there is much that other sports, other let's say niche outdoor sports can learn, or maybe are learning. I see this in the sport of rock climbing where.

We still have a lot of, contention between cities, landowners, But then there are a couple of places where the cities or maybe the climate community has turned the cities into, into partners and advocates. So just, yeah, is there maybe one of the lessons you've learned, Bob? And building this framework, collaborating with cities, maybe a couple of quick lessons that other sports can also learn from to again, turn even non athletes into champions of their, uh, sport.

Yeah. Yeah. [00:39:00] 

Bob: I think this, the, what the other sports can gain from that is it's. It's a heads in beds is a big deal, right? These cities are always looking for revenue, right? People, they need to fill up hotels and perfect example when rock and roll Las Vegas happened and you had 44, 000 people coming to do that event and very few from Vegas are doing the run.

So it's all people staying in hotels. Uh, they actually what rock and roll did. is they move the event to Sunday night, strip at night, you ran the strip at night and you had 44, 000 people and by moving the event to the nighttime, what happened, everybody had to stay an extra hotel night. So, you're talking about what, 150, 160, 000 hotel nights.

That's real business. So when you can have your sport impact the cities financially. By filling up hotels and be able to [00:40:00] document that, that you're, you know, X number of people are coming from outside the area. That's what the cities, the cities don't do this stuff out of the kindness of their heart.

They're not blocking off the strip in Las Vegas because they're nice guys. They're blocking up the strip because there's 44, 000 people who are coming and running and bringing their friends, family and friends. And, you know, having a great time while they're there. So, that's understanding that the cities need revenue.

If you can bring them revenue, if you can give them heads and beds, they will always work with you. That's what it's all about. And, in the, in Europe, the Olympic rings mean more than they do here in the States. So, what I mean by that is a city will pay World Triathlon To bring an event to their city in Hamburg or not.

Hamburg's a bad example because they. They do really well, but like Yokohama, Japan, they'll do a world triathlon event there and they'll just have the [00:41:00] pros, the, you know, the Olympian Olympic hopefuls will be racing there. So it might be 50 men, 50 women and some, you know, some bureaucrats. So they'll, they'll provide hotel and provide all this stuff for this event because it's associated with the Olympics.

Prestige for the city. You go to the city of San Diego and you sit down with them. We talked about bringing the Olympic trials here. And they were like, wait, rock and roll brings us 25, 000 people. You're talking about, you're going to have a hundred men and women, and you're going to want us to give them.

You know, you want to give up a hotel, give them hotels, you want us to fly them in because they're associated with the Olympics. We don't care about the Olympics. It doesn't affect us. We care about, are you going to fill up hotels? Are you bringing me 20, 000 people? Are you bringing me 10, 000 people? What are you bringing?

That's that's really what it's what's all about for [00:42:00] for city. So if you're talking a smaller, smaller, uh, event like climbing, how do you create a climbing festival in a major city? What's great about climbing and the climbing actually just got into the Paralympics. For, uh, 2028 in L. A. We were actually stunned because we thought for sure that adaptive surfing was getting in, but it became rock climbing, which is awesome because when you're talking about the prefab mountains for the climbing, you can put that you can put that in a mall.

You can put it anywhere. Right? So you're not blocking off roads. You're not impacting anybody. Um, you can build so much around that that that's what matters is you're saying, Hey, we're going to bring in people from all over the country for our national climbing championship, and we're going to fill up 10, 000 hotel nights.

We're gonna do 10, 000 hotel nights for your city. That's the point of that's a bit then there's a conversation to be had [00:43:00] now the one city It doesn't fit into this model. There's an event called challenge Roth. It used to be Iron Man, Germany It's in a little town of Bavaria called Roth, Germany And there's 14 hotel rooms in the city of Roth not 14 hotels 14 hotel rooms.

There's like no hotels there 250, 000 people there on race day. They're camping. They're staying in motor homes. It's Woodstock. It's crazy. People stay in Nuremberg and drive over. But the cool thing about that event, uh, the swim is in this beautiful river. And hot air balloons floating above the river as for the swim, and then, uh, uh, classical music is being played as people are swimming along and there's everywhere.

You look, there's people 250, 000 spectators. Then you get on a bike and the roads are just pristine and you go up this thing called Solar Hill. And if you've seen a tour de France, where the people are standing in the road and peel [00:44:00] back as people are climbing, that's exactly what that is. Solar Hill, you go up Solar Hill twice.

And the crowds are definite. Then you get into the run and there's a, you know, like a, a, a mile of, of, of, um, picnic benches and it's, you know, it's, it's a beer bottle basically is. People are drinking and cheering you on as you run through, and then they have a stadium for 10, 000 people that they build a week out.

I mean, it's a piece of, it's, it's, there's a, the finish line is there, is there all the time, but. They build a stadium for 10, 000 people starting a week before the race and you finish in the stadium and you run into this third of a mile loop and, you know, finish inside the stadium with people, you know, 10, 000 people going out of their minds.

It's challenge Roth is one of those bucket list items that the event sells out in 90 seconds with [00:45:00] 4000 individuals and 1500 relay teams. It's, it's crazy. 

Kush: Incredible, Bob. Yeah. Like. You know, some cities have the infrastructure, some cities may not, but then they have been able to create a different kind of opportunity for athletes and maybe even create this, this mystique and this aura that attracts people to partake in a different type of.

Environment with the same event. One thing that I am still curious about, which is a lot of people again, who are impressed by the, by a triathlon and want to get started, but feeling there is this barrier to entry, at least in my mind, which is, Hey. You know, I'm the everyday person. I can go [00:46:00] running. I can, you know, hop on a bike, but I may not know how to swim, but maybe there's a pool nearby.

But when you put all of those things together, when you add in the logistics, when you add in the pocketbook, Oh, yeah. You'd be able to finance those things. You think you need a 10, 000 bike. Yeah. Is there, is there one thing you would like to, uh, advise those people on how can they take that first step towards, uh, realizing, realizing this fantasy they have of becoming a triathlete?

Bob: Well, the deal is that I've been a firm believer in these reverse triathlons and pool triathlons because we get brand new people in. So what's great about it is one, anybody can do it. Everybody out there has run or walked a 5k. You know, the event, actually the event the other day on the, there's another one on the military base here in Los Alamitos called Race on the Base.[00:47:00] 

And a lot of times putting on these races, the logistics, blocking off roads, police, water, you know, you need a lake, you know, you need roads, you need police, you need lifeguards. Well, this Race on the Base is on the military base. So, the race director walks out and puts a cone out at a mile and a half, right?

So, we convert the 5k, drops a cone out there. He's got, you know, you run out, you run around the cone and come back. The bike ride, the 12 mile bike ride is on the runway. They don't block off one road. It's two loops of the runway. Then you ride over and you run over to the pool and you do that. So, there's, you know, you're finding areas, uh, around a community pool where you can put an event on.

Without blocking anything off without blocking off many roads is great. That Pasadena race I was talking about. They have a 5k. So it's 3 miles a road blocking off total. So blocking 3 miles for the 5k and then using that same 5k loop 3 [00:48:00] times for the bike ride. So you're doing 9 mile bike, but you're, you're only blocking off 3 miles of road.

But the main deal is swimming is still the thing that can be a deterrent for folks. It's, it's scary. You know, you and I go for a run and we get tired. We walk. We and I go for a bike ride. We get tired. We walk. You and I go out in the ocean and one of us gets tired. We die. That's a problem, right? It's it's that's that's that's a main main thing.

And the glare. That happens when you're swimming or people hitting you or kelp and current and big fish There's all that crap. That's what I love about these pool tries warm water lane lines. You ran a 5k You you know the bike you you know, a lot of people think you need some 10, 000 bike to do this sport The reality is if it's got wheels on it and it turns you're fine Get out there for these, like, these pool triathlons or shorter triathlons.

You, you can [00:49:00] buy a bike off of Craigslist. You can get a, you know, get a used bike somewhere from a police auction like I did. Or, a lot of people, their bike hadn't seen, you know, light of day since Clinton was president. And, you know, you pull that thing out and, and ride it. It's no big deal. So, that, the things that we have that, that, that we hear on the sport of triathlon, one, really expensive.

Okay, you don't, you don't need to have that high end bike. you need a wetsuit. Okay, well, there's, there's, you can look online and get wetsuits too, pretty reasonably. Running shoes, you need running shoes, but if you're out there, um, and you're understanding that anybody can do this sport, seriously, any, if you have a, the skill set of you, you know, you wore arm floaties as a kid, you had a paper route.

And, you know, and you, you went for your plate, captured a flag and ran, you've got our skill set, you know, you don't need to be some uber athlete [00:50:00] and people think you need to be an uber athlete, but you don't if you swim a little bit a few times a week, and you get into a master swim program, every city has a master swim program.

What that means is anybody over 18, there's usually a coach on the deck who will work with you. They have lanes. Here are the fast people in this lane, the pregnant women, and the truck, you know, what I call the truck lane, where all of us started, where you go swimming really slow, you know, maybe it's two minutes for a hundred meters.

You start getting better. You swim a little bit. You get better. And then, you know, the cycling part, everybody rides a bike, so it's not that big a deal. I just think that people watch the Ironman on TV and think that's triathlon. And it's, that's the tip and triangle. That's the, that's the, that's the pyramid.

Those are the fastest, the best. But you, I want people to work up to it. Start out with a pool triathlon. Get into the lifestyle. Make some [00:51:00] friends, some training buddies, and then the sport becomes social, right? Hey, we're going for a 50 mile ride and then we're going to in and out burger, right? That type of stuff.

And that's what makes the sport greatest. You know, most of my friends are friends from the sport triathlon goes back, you know, 20, 30, 40 years. 

Kush: Absolutely. Uh, well, community helps us keep going in these lifestyle sports, Bob, taking a quick segue into your Own life and career from that first event in maybe 1980 that you spoke about, which maybe lit that fire.

What inside you, maybe, maybe just beyond being an athlete drove you to become this storyteller and advocate for the community? 

Bob: I think, um, well, one. As a [00:52:00] kid, I was never a good athlete, but the block I lived on, I always liked the games I like playing. And I realized early on that the one skill I did have is I would come, you know, we're on the block and I want to have play baseball game.

I go to Cush's house and say, Cush, we're going to play some baseball on the street. First question you're going to ask me is, who else is playing? So now I got to think quickly, right? Ned's playing, Johnny's playing, Larry's playing. Okay, I'm in. Because nobody wants to be the first, right? Nobody wants to be that first person.

So now I got to get to their houses and say, Cush is in. Cush is playing. Larry goes, go, Oh, I got Larry and Johnny and they go to Larry's house and say, okay, uh, Jimmy and Cush are in. So, you know, cause you gotta get people out there. So then everybody comes in and we're all playing. We all have a great time.

But so even when I had the magazine, it was, it was, you [00:53:00] know, we're trying to sell advertising in a magazine and I'm going to different, you know, different running stores or bike shops. What sells is. Who else is in? Well, I've, you know, Nike is advertising and Gatorade is in and so on. So it's been the credibility you get from other things.

A lot of other people allows you to sell that. So that became sort of the mantra when we worked at running a triathlon news and running a triathlon news went out of business. And that was in 80, in April of 87. Um, and so my partner, Lois Schwartz, was a school, was the, she was the art teacher when I was running a P.

E. program. And the two of us left teaching together to go work at Running and Triathlon News. And I became L. A. editor, she became L. A. photographer, she learned to shoot the camera, and becoming one of the best sports photographers in history. Um, but when the magazine went out of business, so I went and met with a couple of magazine publishers in the state of California.

[00:54:00] One guy had a magazine called California Bicyclists. Another one had a magazine called Southwest Cycling. I went to both of them and said, if we did a magazine that covered running, triathlon and cycling, it would be really popular. And both of them told me the same thing. They said, listen, we'd never put a skinny runner on the cover of a magazine.

And, um, triathlon, this is 87 triathlons, a fat I'd be gone in five years. Uh, so the only sport we care about is cycling. Oh my God, crap. So we came home and some friends came to us and gave us a check for 17, 000 and said, go start your own magazine. So we were underneath. 10, 000 pounds of bike racks and a guy's garage for 200 a month for 200 square feet.

And we launched our first edition of competitor in June of 87. Our first print bill was 20 and we had 17. So we were already 3, 000 in all. I lived on friends floors for a couple of years as we grew the magazine, didn't pay ourselves. [00:55:00] And, um, but we loved going to the events, loved, when you stand at a finish line and you see some people come across their first finish line and just the, just how moved they are by that, by that accomplishment, it, it changes.

I always tell race directors, it's easy to. You know, I'm tired of getting up in the morning. I'm tired of putting the water out. I'm tired of doing all this stuff. Make sure you take the time to go stand by your finish line. Stand by your finish line and watch the, that cathartic moment when someone realizes they could do something they never thought they could do.

Even if it's a 5k, even if it's 10 mile, I remember, well, I'd hand out competitor magazine at the races every once in a while, someone would say, well, I'm not a competitor, meaning they thought it meant a lead athlete, competitive lead athlete. I said, well, what time did you get up today? I got up at five.[00:56:00] 

And did you just run the five K? Yeah, you're a competitor. You compete with yourself. You can, you got up early in the morning to run three miles. Who does that? Not that many people. You are definitely part of our tribe. You are a competitor. Oh, okay. I didn't see it that way. Well, that was important, right?

It's every single day. We need to bring new people in. And that's, I think maybe we've lost our way a little bit in triathlon where you aren't doing anything. The hard yards that we used to do to get runners to understand that, Hey, you know what, if you add swimming and cycling to your running, you can run less and run forever because you're just running, you're going to beat yourself up to the point where you're going to go slower and you're going to get out of the sport because you're injured all the time because we've had Gwen Jorgensen was a swimmer and runner at University of Wisconsin.

And USA triathlon recruited her for sport triathlon. She didn't know how to ride a bike, [00:57:00] right? She had no idea how to ride a bike. 2010 is when they recruited her. Uh, by 2012, she's on the Olympic team in London. by 2014, 15, 16, she's the very best in the world. She was running faster run by swimming and cycling and running less.

than she, when she was in college, when she was just running. I'm a firm believer that you add swimming and cycling to your running and cut back on the amount of running you're doing. You will be a better runner and you'll be able to do it forever. 

Kush: Bob. Yeah. I mean, you are. A born spokesperson, let's say for not just for the sport of triathlon, but I think in some ways for the bread and butter of the show, which is for staying ageless, I think listeners to the show will [00:58:00] clearly appreciate the points you make about being able to diversify one sport and include a variety of Of non impact ones in this case, I like to joke that well, I don't have the capacity for much Swimming right now, because I'm just, uh, involved in fully in rock climbing at the moment.

But I do think that there's going to be a time where like things will change for me and the new sports. I think that's what keeps me going are probably doing a slow lapse in a lake, uh, preceded or succeeded by, uh, getting on my mind bike and going on trails. So, I think that part is. It's so clear this part of the conversation, which I call being ageless, Bob, and I speak with you.

[00:59:00] It's you are in your early seventies now, but your energy and, uh, your let's say optimism is so evident. So What is your secret Bob? What is it that keeps you staying fired? 

Bob: Well, I mean, a lot of, a lot of, uh, Oh, just over the years. I mean, just, just being with being with positive, upbeat people. And that's the other thing is when you talk about being ageless, a lot of people tend to hang out.

If you're in the seventies, you hang out with the 70 year olds. And what are you reading? They're reading obits there. They're there. They're talking about medication right there. But if you're going to events, and there's 30 year olds there, and all you're talking about is your PRS and how to get faster.

You get younger right you hang with young people that to me is is the is [01:00:00] the best thing and you know, uh, We with competitor we sold that a couple times so that no eight and sold it in 12 Um, and then I started all you know breakfast with bob our youtube show in 2010 ish and kept getting just rebranded everything under that but it was one of those things with When you talk about ageless, you taught to me what that means is that you hang with younger people so that you can, you can accomplish what you want to do, but more importantly, you get the energy that they have.

And, and one of the, one working for our foundation, if I've mentioned that our challenge athlete foundation, but we've, we 1994 when a friend of ours was a friend of ours was, was injured for a second time. He'd been a football player at Yale, was on his motorcycle going to class, going to acting class in New York City, got hit by a bus, lost his leg below the [01:01:00] knee, came back to run a 3 16 marathon with a walking leg, and then, uh, came to Ironman where I met him, Jim McLaren.

He ran 10 42 in Kona, top 20 percent everybody in a race, stopping to pour sweat out of his Processing leg is running along. Well, at that point, he's sponsored by Budweiser, and he's traveling the world. And then eight years later, he got hit again. He was racing a Mission Viejo. A man went through a closed intersection, hit the back of his bike, propelled ahead at first into a pole, became a quadriplegic.

And at that point, I covered a lot of wheelchair athletes through Competitor Magazine. And the one thing athletes would tell me, I'd ask them, what's the worst part about your new life? Invariably, it was. 30 years old, here come mom and dad back in my life. I was independent, now I'm not. So our goal became, we're going to do a little trial fund for Jimmy, we're going to raise 25, 000 and buy Jimmy a van with hand controls to give him independence.

Well we raised 49, 000, thought our job was done, and then three empty women [01:02:00] came to us and said it's great we did it for Jimmy, but did you know when you get injured, your health insurance covers a walking around leg in an everyday wheelchair. because they consider sport a luxury item. Insurance doesn't cover anything to do with sport.

So now it's been 32 years. We've raised 180 million. We've sent out over 50, 000 grants. Now we'll be sending out a 50, 000 grant this month, to challenged athletes in all 50 states, 73 countries. And more importantly, in 105 different sports, we just sent out our 105th sport was wheelchair pickleball. what I've learned from our athletes.

And you see our athletes are missing body parts, and they've got big smiles on their faces, because there are a lot of cases they're happy to be alive. They've gone through some pretty major trauma in their lives. And you see them not just living, but thriving and understanding that I lost a leg. I was never [01:03:00] going to be an Olympic athlete, but I'm going to the Paralympics.

I'm going and I'm going to be riding a bike in the Paralympics and I'm going to get them out. I mean, it's when you're with our kids, kids from our foundation, every day is a positive day. Every day is a way to sort of our athletes sort of look trauma in the face and say, you know what, you're not going to bring me down.

And, you know, we've got athletes, I was with a young man the other day with, um, he's got cerebral palsy and he's adaptive CrossFit is his sport and he's killing it. And we got another young man, he was playing collegiate baseball at East Carolina University, was in a tubing accident, lost his leg below the knee, and, had to have his leg amputated.

And his, you know, night before the operation with a leg amputated, you know, he says, Dad, what does this mean? Dad says, well, [01:04:00] Parker, it means you'll never play baseball again. Then mom steps in and goes, well, don't be telling our son what he can't do. And then Parker's saying, but mom, no baseball player with a prosthetic leg has played division one baseball.

And mom goes, but there has to be a first. Why can't it be you? And it was, it was the first last February. And then the last couple of days, Friday night, he, he got his first hit since having his leg amputated two days before he drove in his first run with a sacrifice spot. And you see it picked up by Sports Center, picked up by World News Tonight, picked up by MLB Network.

And you're just seeing these kids changing lives because then other kids in their families are coming out to watch them play who are also missing a leg and are seeing him play baseball. So if he's playing baseball, why can't they play baseball? So, you know, you think about the minutiae that a lot of us deal with, with first world problems.

And then you see the happiness. [01:05:00] that kids who have real issues are dealing with. You know, every time if you have a prosthetic leg or missing an arm or in a wheelchair, every time you leave the house, the spotlight is on you. You don't plan and you either embrace it or you shrink from it and watching our kids embrace it has been the greatest gift of all 

Kush: so bad as Bob.

Yeah, it sounds like the work you have put in with adaptive athletes and also. I believe the challenged athletes foundation,

your contributions have come back to you, maybe even as a gift to you and being able to keep you inspired every day. So fantastic. I want to ask you, you have spent a [01:06:00] lifetime around endurance athletes, you know, the, uh, uh, the best pros to everyday grinders, right? What have you learned about longevity? Any hard won strategies, any surprising things you have learned about not just staying fit, but staying hungry.

And fulfilled as the agent. Yeah, it's 

Bob: interesting because I see I think With what i've seen lately in triathlon is, you know A lot of you guys who move on as sebastian keen lay and jan for dana when they retire Um, it's like well, what's next? It's, it's, it's almost like a professional athlete. Uh, it's not almost, it is a professional athlete, but it's almost like, you know, your professional soccer players, professional baseball players, all those guys, you know, your career is basically [01:07:00] over by 40, very few, or even get that long.

So you've, that's your life. That's been your life goal. What's next. And seeing our athletes getting into CrossFit and getting into totally, totally different. Like Ryan Hall was a. Uh, 204 58 marathoner and was skinny as a rail. And between 2007, 2011, he ran nine or 10 marathons, all of them under two 12.

And then he was done. It was, it was fried. And now he's doing all these cool adventures. He's become like a, a bodybuilder, not a Bali builder, but he's very large human being. We covered a thing he did a few years ago where he was. I want to run a mile every mile every quarter he would stop and like, you know, uh, do weights and then he would do another [01:08:00] quarter and do weights another quarter do it.

So the whole idea is, could he run a sub 5 minute mile doing, you know, lifting every quarter mile? And it was, it was really wild. And he did. I forget how much he lifted. But it was, it was a lot. It was a frickin ton, but he's, he says like, as a competitor, if somebody's a competitor and they're a runner, a triathlete, a rock climber, whatever it be, they're going to eventually move into something else and bring that same competitive nature with that.

And how can I be better? How can I be the best? perfect example. It was a woman named Jamie Whitmore, who was a, you know, what Xterra is. It's like you swim, you mountain bike and you run. The mountain bike rides are really brutal. You're on the flume trail up in Tahoe and, you know, what, 11, 12, 000 feet and that type of stuff.

So she won 37 Xterras. One World Championship and then she was having pain in the back of her leg and [01:09:00] the doctors are like, yeah, we can't find anything. Maybe you're just imagining it or maybe you have a low threshold of pain for somebody who's riding her bike up at 11, 12, 000 feet. They don't have a low threshold of pain.

It turned out she had a tumor wrapped around a sciatic nerve. And she knew when they cut that away, she probably would end up with drop foot. It wouldn't be able to run again, which means her career as a Paralympic athlete, as an XTERRA athlete would be over. So that's exactly what happened. And I actually called her husband, Courtney at the hospital and said, Jamie will need sport when the most competitive people I've ever seen in my life, she actually raced during, you know, Ned's era, you know, Ned, she was, uh, just getting into it when Ned was, when Ned was, uh, still Ned's always been relevant, but yeah, so anyways, um, we got, we told her about paracycling she got into paracycling.

And in [01:10:00] 2016, she won a gold and a silver medal in Rio in her second athletic career. And she, and then she went to the Paralympics in 2020 and then 2024. And she's wants to go in 2028 when somebody is a competitor and somebody has got that, you know, that drive, 

it doesn't go away. 

Yeah. But I take it back.

Someone like Mark Ironman world champion. And very few of these guys can just. Turkey, but he won his last race in 95 he was He had taken a year off. He was 37 years old, a guy named Thomas Hellriegel, who I think was 25, had a 12 minute lead off the bike and, um, you know, Mark talks about running along, you know, with one guy on each shoulder, one going, dude, you've won this thing five times, your condo's right there, you know, just, you don't need to prove anything to anybody, and the other is like, [01:11:00] Uh, just, you never know, you never know what might happen.

Well, he ended up making up that, uh, that deficit and winning. And basically, it was the ultimate mic drop. The last race he ever did, he came from a 12, 13 minute deficit to win his sixth and final Ironman World Championship title and never did another race after that. So that, that, you know, but at the same time, he's surfing, he's fit.

I mean, you see very few of these athletes, you know, get out of shape. They find other ways. They ride the gravel bike, they do other things, uh, they maintain that swim, bike, run lifestyle, but it's, uh, it is something that when, when the top athletes have that drive. That, that doesn't go away. It might move on to another sport, but it's, it's always there.

It 

Kush: sounds like being able to diversify one's pursuits [01:12:00] is a strategic shift. Yes. Because, because, you know, once you have been, let's say, doing these triathlons, at some point, your times Your performances are not always going to exceed the last. 

Bob: Oh, yeah. And 

Kush: the novelty And that you know that success drug Is going to fade and being able to go out and enjoy

Participating in, in different sports, I think it sounds like that's an important, tool in that, uh, ability to keep that stoke going. Right. Curious. any other sports you're doing Bob today, but besides, uh, the battle, I actually, you spoke about, uh, an early. [01:13:00] climbing trip with Ned in Mexico. , are you also finding other sports that continue to keep you? 

Bob: You know, what's funny is sometimes when you get to a certain age, you know, it's like if you're a skier and you've been a skier when you get into your 50s, 60s, you're like, I'm not trying snowboarding.

I'm not going to go and hurt myself and do something. So all of my buddies have been telling me pickleball pickleball. You got to play pickleball. And I was talking to one of the. Well, I used to, when I turned 60, every Monday morning, I'd go in for active release therapy. just sort of, because I raced pretty much every weekend, I think in 19, I raced like 36 times or something.

But the goal was, you know, you need maintenance. You need body maintenance as you get older. That's just the way it is. It's not like you wait, you don't wait for an injury. You do, go in every, every Monday morning and, you know, and, and have, you know, Dan, Dan work on me, [01:14:00] which was great. So, um, but I asked him, uh, what were the best sports in terms of your business, the sports that lead to the most injuries, so they keep you busy.

And for a long time, it was inline skating because, you know, you've got a break that's this big and you're going 30 miles an hour down a hill. You know, spiral fractures, that type of stuff. He loved that. uh, CrossFit. Says, you give, give me a 50 year old guy swinging a kettleball who's fatigued.

That, that's some good injuries right there. Then it was a barefoot running craze, right? Now it's pickleball. Pickleball is, is the thing. It's to get some 50, 60 year old person going, moving quickly side to side. That's a, that's a recipe for disaster. Diving, you know, they haven't played a sport in 20 years and they're diving on a pickleball court.

So yeah, a lot a lot of injuries So i've avoided new stuff. I like riding my my My [01:15:00] my tri bike. I like riding my mountain bike. Um, and I love Getting out on the trails during, you know, during coming back from the, uh, back stuff, just walking is something I've never been a walker, but I've certainly gotten into that.

It's sort of fun. And then when I do a race, your mentality becomes different when you're running. You know, you used to get off the bike and run eight minute miles. And I always say that 11 is a new weight. I 

Kush: Bob. On the physical side Nutrition, training, body maintenance, any common threads you have seen in athletes who have kept performing well into their later years?

Bob: Absolutely. If you look at, uh, all of, all of our athletes have always relied on chiropractic, they've relied on [01:16:00] massage, uh, regular body work. You know, for, for me, I don't, I don't do the massage as often as, as I'd like. Um, but I think the key for all of us is we age is, is weight, right? It's, it's eating correctly.

It's funny. You learn that it's. your mentality becomes, Hey, if I gain a little weight, I'll just go ride more. I'll go run more. And the reality is the only way to really keep weight off, which is a problem as you age is to, um, uh, you keep weight off by eating right. Right? It's, it's, it's eating the right stuff, eating the right portions and maintaining, you know, good nutrition.

What you put in your mouth is really what it's all about. So, years ago, I had a guy named Dr. David Clayton on my show. And I was talking about that. I said, well, what What do you, what's your theory? [01:17:00] Because people start talking about eating six meals a day and drinking X amount of water. I've never been that disciplined.

David said something that really made a lot of sense to me. He said, uh, if it wasn't around a million years ago, don't eat it. And if it's in a plastic bag or in a wrapper, it wasn't around a million years ago. So don't eat it. It was like, oh, I get that. All right. So we, you know, my wife started cooking almond flour and flaxseed oil and just just more natural, just, just eating correctly.

Cause I, I never had the discipline to say, I'm going to eat. I'm gonna carry all these meals with me. I'm gonna eat every few hours. I just, I'm not that, I'm just too simple. I need something that's easy and that made sense to me. That resonated, you know, somebody walks, you're at a party and they've got a plate of, uh, mini burgers or they've got a plate of fruit, you know, like, wow, I'm going for the fruit.

It becomes, that becomes your, your reality that you, you want to make sure that [01:18:00] you eat correctly so that you're not putting, you know, weight on your joints. You know, you're not hurting your knees. We tried to eliminate bread, butter, sugar, salt. Uh, the salt tends to, you know, swell the joints and, um, that seemed to work from everybody's different, but that seemed to work for me.

I haven't been as disciplined in this last month or so that I should be. So I've got to get as we're heading towards racing season. I've got to, uh, I've got to start training more and making sure that I'm ready for. We have spring sprint coming up in early May. And then we have like six or seven great triathlons here in San Diego.

Kush: Amazing. What about, uh, mobility? What about, Putting in the time at the gym with weights. 

Bob: You know what? We, I have a little weight room in the house here. Uh, and then we've got multiple bikes, nine bikes here, a couple of stationary bikes. I've got the Zwift set up. [01:19:00] Um, I've, I've had a hard, I've always had a hard time riding indoors.

Just never something that's done much for me. I love going down Fiesta Island is where the first triathlon started. And, um, that's where I'll probably be going when we're done. But, uh, you know, it's a four mile loop. And so I go down there and, you know, ride three, four or five loops. And, um, then, you know, then the best days you start with a cold plunge and then you head over to the pool and then you, um, you know, go down to Fiesta Island and you can get a lot of stuff done by, you know, eight, eight, nine in the morning.

Kush: Amazing. Well, what a inspiring start that all of us can learn from. What is perhaps maybe one surprising thing you have learned about, again, aging gracefully? 

Bob: I, you know, [01:20:00] again, I think aging gracefully is, is, I don't know if it's graceful. I just, I think it's more about, you know, age, aging and still loving, just loving whatever age you're at, because it doesn't, you know, again, uh, I, I'll, once January one hit, I'm considered, you know, I was 73 now, um, uh, I, I turned 74 in May, so once January one hit, I was racing as a, you know, 74 year old.

Well, next year. In January, I age up. In January, I become 75, as far as USA Triathlon is concerned. So, um, you know, it's important for me right now to start thinking about, okay, it's, uh, I've got till January to get my butt in shape so that I can go hopefully win some, some hardware at some races this next year.

You know, I, years ago, I was interviewing this, uh, a hundred year old swimmer at a master swim meet national championships. And I'm like, what's the [01:21:00] secret to your success says if you can't beat them out, live them. And I'm like, okay, that's it. Right? That's my philosophy. We can't beat them, outlive them. And that's what I'm hoping to do.

Outlast them and outlive them. 

Kush: Absolutely. And I mean, what I'm also learning is that keeping one's sense of humor alive and being able to laugh at oneself at every opportunity is perhaps also a key. To longevity. Couple of, uh, final questions, Bob, as we round out, uh, you spoke about, this, yeah, delicious breakfast, I think muffins, that's your, uh.

That you had this morning. What is one meal, Bob, that you could eat every day? 

Bob: Oh, um, you know what? There's a meal that I can eat pretty much every day. There's a great little chicken place here called [01:22:00] Chick's and I'll get, uh, um, uh, the chicken breast with, uh, steamed vegetables. And, um, uh, a, um, a sweet potato.

Okay. That's something I can, I can take down every day. I, for, when they used to have one by our office, I'd go there every day and have the, uh, that was my, my favorite. Just, I don't know, just, uh, and I'm one, I'm a creature of habit. I can eat the same meal every day and it wouldn't bother me. Lovely. 

Kush: Tasty, tasty yet nutritious.

Yes. But what may be the greatest gift that you have ever received and also that you have given to somebody else?

Bob: greatest gift I've received? Wow. That's, uh [01:23:00] That's, that's, I don't know. I mean, I've got to me that the stuff, you know, I went to the Ironman Hall of Fame, uh, Ironman statue. Ironman made this huge, gigantic. Where is it? Oh, I don't know if I can lift it. in the early days of Ironman, they gave out John Collins actually made. These hole in the head trophies, little baby, you know, small trophies that you would get and he welded them himself. And, um, so Lou Friedland, when, when they presented me with the, all the, it's really more plaque, but then he hit one of these May for me.

that meant a lot, you know, cause this, my life is really pretty much been the Ironman with the, with the books and everything else. Oh my God, that thing's probably 20 pounds. But that, you know, that to me was really important, um, just because in the early days when we first, 78, [01:24:00] 79, John made for each person, the little hole in the head trophy and the whole concept is it's when Tom Warren, who won the 79 Ironman was on Johnny Carson show and Johnny was like, wait, you went 2.

4, 112, 26. 2 and they gave you this. It was like this little, you know, the little small hole in the head thing. And he turned it over and he goes, Tommy, there's a, there's a nut loose. There's, there's a, there's a screw loose here. It's like, that's sort of similar. You have a screw loose if you do this stupid thing.

But it was like, well, with these, with the trophy, it's sort of similar. It's so simple, right? It just shows that, you know, you're, you choose something different. You've chosen a sport that is not baseball, football, basketball. You've chose something that can change you in a lot of ways. And you know, it's so funny when you talk about the greatest gift, when you're 13 miles into [01:25:00] that marathon after doing 2.

4 and 112. 6, 112 mile bike, and now you're halfway through the run, and somebody hands you a cold sponge and a Coke, that is the greatest gift, right? That's what I like about the sport. It makes you, because you're, you're so raw, you're so broken at certain points that any little thing will mean the world.

I hear you got some people who are doing this race are billionaires. Other people are paying houses for a living, but you ask them at mile 13. What the greatest gift is, it's that cold coca cola, a pile of ice to put on your head and a cold sponge to put on the back of your neck. Oh my god, there's nothing better.

So it makes you appreciate the little things. It makes you appreciate that, you know, gosh, people are like, oh, I didn't get this couch I wanted to buy. It's like, who [01:26:00] cares about that crap? You care about when you're in your rawest moments and, and, you know, and somebody is volunteering their time to hand that to you, you know, that's, that's, it's such a great gift to be at these events and to see people change their lives for the better, uh, and, and learn that there is a better version of themselves.

Doug to a place where they didn't know they could go and they did it and they succeeded and it will change their lives forever. 

Kush: For those of us who are not watching this on YouTube, Bob just, uh, showed us this, uh, elegant and can I say heavy trophy, uh, that you received. Sounds like they, they, they, they, uh, underscored.

The word Aaron in Ironman looks heavy. 

Bob: Yeah, but awesome. It's something I have right here in the, my little, my little collection of all sorts of [01:27:00] Ironman memorabilia here behind me. 

Kush: Bob, what about the greatest gift you have given somebody else? 

Bob: You know, again, I don't know if it's, if I've been able to help people.

If somebody like a Jamie Whitmore, you know, watching her at the Paralympics and it was funny as she was going through, I mentioned to you about going through the cancer, uh, and having, having her, um, uh, the tumor that was wrapped around her sciatic nerve removed. After that, she got sick again and didn't know what was going on.

And doctor said, go in and, you know, get a test and figure out what's going on. And then the doctor walks in and goes, you're pregnant with twins. And so when we were at the Paralympics in 2016, there were the, her twins with her when she won the gold medal and the silver medal, and there was. You know, just [01:28:00] knowing where she was at, how low her life was at, and seeing where she was then.

Same with later. And same with this young man, Parker Berg. Parker, you know, I started reaching out, ironically, uh, when he first was injured in a motorboat, uh, ended up having his leg cut off below the knee. I started reaching out to the family, and just said, listen, it's Uh, the time is not right now, Parker's going through, you're going to be going through therapy and all sorts of things.

But when the time is right, don't hesitate to give me a call and challenge athletes foundation. I think we can be of service. And what happened is dad was driving two and a half hours each way to go see his son and in the hospital and rehab, and he was listening to books on tape. And then David Goggins second book, he talks about myself and the foundation.

And so he comes home and says to his wife, you know, I was listening to the Goggins book and he talked [01:29:00] about this Bob Babbitt guy. And his wife goes, yeah, he's been calling here since Parker was injured. And he called me that day. And next thing you know, we get him to Chicago to have a prosthetic built for him.

a running prosthetic that he can play baseball in. And then he becomes the first division one ball player to play with the prosthetic leg and ends up on sports center and ends up on world news tonight. And now is bringing us other kids. So it's one of those things. Parker has been an amazing gift. I feel like maybe we helped them in a small way and then he's, it's reciprocal.

He's bringing us new kids. We didn't know about who now are changing their lives through sport. And it probably the one thing, even for the ageless athlete. People underestimate the power of sport and don't ever give up that that's the power of sport. I think it's one of the things that that people tend to do as they age.

They go, well, I probably shouldn't be doing riding a bike anymore. I probably shouldn't be [01:30:00] doing this. Don't ever say that to yourself. Sport is what makes us whole. Sport is what makes us vibrant. Sport is what makes us who we are. And being ageless just means that you can do, you do sport until they're putting dirt on you.

Right? As long as there's not dirt on you yet and there's air coming into and out of your lungs. You should be living and breathing sport.

Kush: Bob. Amazing words to part on. Before we end, we would love for you to share how can people learn more about the work you're putting out and your storytelling beyond this podcast? 

Bob: Well, people can go, uh, on YouTube. Breakfast with Bob is on Babbitville. Uh, last year we did 203 interviews, had over five and a half million minutes of viewing.

Um, and it's a lot of fun. We do the shows from [01:31:00] Kona, from Nice, from all the major triathlons around the world, and then Challenged Athletes is just challengedathletes. org. And you can find out how to volunteer, how to donate, find out, go to our, our Challenged Athletes Foundation YouTube channel and see all of our great, the Parker Bird story I talked about, the Jamie Whitmore story, all those video pieces are on there and they're really, really well done.

Kush: Incredible, Bob. I have checked out your channel and I have bookmarked some of those conversations to come back to. Thank you so much for coming on Ageless Athlete this morning. It was such a pleasure to have you on the show. 

Bob: Thank you, Krish. A pleasure to meet you. Enjoy your climbing trip.