Everest, Ironman, Desert Ultras — How to Keep Reinventing Your Mind & Body | Susan Hunt, 68

Ageless Athlete - Susan Hunt
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Kush: [00:00:00] Susan, I always start with this question, which is, where are you right now and what did you have for breakfast this morning?

Susan: Excellent questions, Kush. I'm gonna make everybody very jealous and tell them I'm sitting in Goa and for breakfast I had. muesli granola with yogurt, blueberries, and kiwi fruit.

Kush: That breakfast sounds delicious,

beautiful. What are you doing in Goa, Susan? 



Susan: I'm trying to have as much fun as possible, so I, I try and swim in our pool every day. I have some great cycling buddies down here. I've just finished a three day kayaking course. My husband, who has never really kayaked before. So, uh, that was fun. So I'm actually just enjoying semi-retired life.

Kush: Beautiful. Susan, you are in Goa and you currently live in India, but before that you [00:01:00] grew up in Australia and you've had these adventures all over the world. Did you ever imagine India becoming part of your story? 

Susan: No, I did not. No, I absolutely did not. I came here in 2007, to work on the Commonwealth Games, which was possibly the biggest adventure of my life, but not necessarily the best one, for reasons I won't go into.

But, uh, I met my now husband two weeks after I arrived. And I had no intention of staying, but the rest is history. So, you know, kind of nearly 20 years later, I am in India and continuing the adventure journey. 

Kush: I love it. You came to India, you met your future partner right away, 

Susan: Uhhuh, 

Kush: and then somehow you decided to continue living in India.

Susan: Yeah, I, it's, it's would've been a bit hard not [00:02:00] to. it's, I've seen people do it, but for me, living, uh, in one place and being married to somebody in another place is not for me. And I waited until I was 50 to meet 53 to meet Mr. Wright. So I guess, um, I didn't really wanna be living apart from him. 

Kush: One thing that. I find delightful about your story is that you have not been shy of starting things late and then excelling in them. So maybe there is some thread that runs through your athletic accomplishments and beyond. And I would love to tap into that thread a bit more because you're in India and it's a place that I often don't have people on this podcast coming from.

What is one thing about India, Susan, that you have found that you like, that people outside may not know about

Susan: India is full of probably the most adventurous people I know. [00:03:00] People here do not. Have they, they do first and think afterwards. You know, I have seen women in Indian dress jumping on a jet ski on the beach in the, going out in the surf who've, who Patently can't swim.

But just trust that they're gonna have a good time. And, and the guy who's who, the instructor on the jet ski or the guy just chasing after these, this women goes like, I've seen Trekker, on the way to, you know, quite a serious trek, to topo and shivering the gang go tree. And they had no business being on a trek.

You know, they were half crippled. They were, but this was a religious trek for them and they didn't stop to think. what am I doing here? They were, this was just, you know, an adventure. And it's that mentality of, you know, I'm just gonna go out there and do it. Sadly, it also means that they'll cross the road without looking at oncoming cars or, you know, there's a certain disregard for discipline and, [00:04:00] and safety.

But, you know, I, I just find it quite refreshing. But I think if I was to say what I like about India, it is the people. The people are, Delhi's a bit tougher where I normally live, um, where we live most of the time. It's a very dog eat dog kind of world. And cycling in Delhi is another level. You know, I, I do most of my cycling in Delhi just because I live there most of the time.

and I, I say to all my friends overseas, I will never get Alzheimer's because my reaction times to this, kind of traffic and talk talks, cutting across and buses trying to mow you down and, and cars that go straight through red lights and, you know, it's okay, I'm never gonna get Alzheimer's.

But, you know, that's, that's part of the fun of it I suppose. 

Kush: Susan, I just love your energy and I can already sense that this is going to be one of my favorite conversations. Just delighted to have you here and your reflection. It's a little [00:05:00] too close to home, I'm afraid because. I am from India, myself, and most of us, including me, think of, well, I shouldn't say most of us, some of us including myself, sometimes think of Indians being timid when it comes to adventure.

But, you know, you are breaking my brain a bit because what the things you're saying are actually absolutely true. Yes, yes. Uh, all those things that you're saying about, Indians doing first and thinking later are absolutely true, I think. And yes, I mean, what some people might call, I don't know, recklessness,

this, this untapped, uh, potential for, uh, yeah, for adventure talking, of which you have described yourself as someone of very. [00:06:00] Average ability with an overdeveloped sense of, sense of adventure. And I, I sense that, uh, there are people listening who will relate to this. Out of everything that you've done, and you've done many things, what are you most proud of?

Susan: it would relate to various times in my life. I know that when I finished the Ironman, I felt it was, I felt invincible that I could do anything because it was so far away from, from my perspective at that point that I could do something like that, that I thought, whoa, that's it. I'm just, you know, I can do whatever.

And I think that probably informed a lot of other things that I did afterwards. So that was, that was really quite important. I mean, the other thing that, that I think is, was quite extraordinary was that the, I did the eco challenge in Borneo, in 2000. For people who dunno about [00:07:00] the eco challenge, it, it's a adventure race and it's a destination based adventure race.

And ours was in Borneo, it's been held in Patagonia, it's been held in various other places. It's now stopped. I understand because it was so dangerous. started by a guy called Mark Burdett, um, who most people would know as the person who started Survivor, the, uh, television program. and it was tough.

It was kind of like he, he set out a course that was already tough and then tried to make it 40% tougher. And so it was teams of four 10 days. in Borneo, in the heat week we crossed Open Oceans in, open per outrigger canoes. We push and cycled through rainforests. We, juma up a. A hundred foot rope in the middle of the cave.

Filled, filled with bat droppings, which, you know, could have killed us at any time. We went down rivers in, in, kind of open, uh, wooden boats that capsized all over the place. It was like a scene outta mash, you know, all these people falling outta boats everywhere. [00:08:00] So, I mean, there was 75 people who started, I think, and and I think 25 finished 75 teams, 20 finished.

We, uh, sorry, 25 finished. We came 20th. But, you know, I didn't care. We finished and we were, we were left standing, but I was so proud of that, only because I lasted and it wasn't easy. And with respect to any of my team members who may still be listening to this, it was tough dealing with three Australian blokes who at the end of the day were blokes and they, you know, they were monosyllabic.

There was very little communication, there was very little sense of fun. Um, if you were able to talk to the other competitors, that meant you weren't trying hard enough. you know, the objective kept changing. Um, I'd signed up for something that was to just finish and, you know, enjoy each other's company.

And by the time we arrived at the start line, I was like, right, we're gonna be top 10. It was like, really No one consulted me. All that sort of stuff. And the [00:09:00] dynamics of that were really quite tough as a single woman in that environment. and so I kind of had to suck up. A lot of what I really felt even down to, you know, once when I was right about the navigation and I was completely overruled by the, you the chap I was in the pair with.

And we ended up having to co steer over sea urchins, you know, an ocean that had, you know, it was literally just covered in sea urchins. I had purple marks all over my legs from the poisonous spikes of the sea itch in four months. and yet, you know, I I, I wasn't allowed to have an opinion. Now I apologize in advance if any of them are listening to all of this, but it was just tough.

And they probably say, oh, she was a cow, or she was a, but you know, I, am I allowed to use bad language? Anyway, at 1.1 of the guys said, you're a tough bitch. And I went, yeah, I pretty well am. You know, I, that's a badge that I will wear about now because it was so tough. So that was something I was really proud of, just to get through that and to finish and to finish, [00:10:00] you know, kind of healthy and relatively healthy.

Oh, by the way, half the field were carted off with a thing called leptospirosis, which is a, a very deadly disease carried by, it's like Lyme disease carried by cows and whatever. It's from wildlife, uh, or for a fauna, in rivers, you know, kind of urinating or whatever in rivers. And there was a worldwide medical alert sent out for anybody who would, who participated in the race because they were dropping like flyers from this lepto sclerosis.

Anyway, that's a long story. So I guess those two things I was proudest of. And then of course, Everest, because everybody thinks that's the pinnacle. not necessarily for me, but it was, it was a thing I was proud of. Again, to finish,

Kush: Susan, that was an interesting bit of commentary about, uh, surviving. The eco challenge, right. 

Susan: Uhhuh, 

Kush: and I guess for folks who don't know, I think Eco Challenge predated the Survivor series, and maybe it was the same [00:11:00] producer, this, crazy, iconic, iconic man who started this. the part about, you know, when one looks at, adventure sports today, I think they have really, like gender dynamics have shifted so quickly in the last few years, but often you still see more men than women for all kinds of reasons.

But I can imagine 25 years ago, the, the ratio is even more lopsided. And I am imagining that men back then took even more liberty with doing insane things that they wouldn't stay and do today. And. Yeah, I'm just, I'm just odd. I'm just odd at both the, I suppose your, your tenacity at completing the, these very difficult parts of the race over a long period of time, but also being able to do that in that, you know, seven, seven by 24, [00:12:00] like, companionship of that kind of, that kind of dynamic.

So honestly, what are you, what are you more proud of? Like, being able to, thrive despite it or, yeah, the athletic, uh, requirements. 

Susan: I didn't think about the athleticism of it. I, and I think, you know, I'm very flattered to be invited onto a program because I don't see myself as an athlete. But I guess given some of the stuff I've, I've done that, that is the tag that, that one might put on me.

But I was, I was really only conscious of the dynamics. I was just wanting us to kind of get through. I'm very good doing stuff on my own. I, I am a, you know, anything that requires, grunt, I can go for hours, days, not a problem. Skill, not well, skill I'm okay at, this was a, this was probably the first time that I'd had to do something in a team that at the same time, we were pushing ourselves to extremes.

and that has a lot of implications. and [00:13:00] so learning to suck that up, don't get me wrong, they weren't being politically incorrect. They weren't, you know, saying things. In fact, I'd rather they had said things. They were just monosyllabic, they were just grunting, you know, like there was very little conversation at all going on.

Uh, and by the way, um, there were teams, you had to be a team of four, but you could be three women and one men. You had to have one person in the, uh, in the opposite gender. And in fact, there was a team playboy in this particular race. Now, I won't be in any way sexist, they were quite athletic girls and they didn't make it to the end.

Probably was a different dynamic for that poor chap who was racing with them. it was really tough, mainly because we were putting everything out there. It was really tough. You know, when you are, when you're pushing a mountain bike through mud uphill in a forest, in a, in a, like a, a rainforest and mud, you know, kind of up to your knees and pushing the bike over logs.

It was insane. Completely insane. You're doing that for like two days and you know, you sleep where you can, you, we had hammocks that had to be tied into [00:14:00] trees because of all the ants and, you know, it was so dangerous. But you know, I always assume they just put these races on knowing that there, there is a certain level of safety, but I'm not so sure anymore.

I think, you know, that we, they were pushing the envelope a bit back there. I don't think you can carry you, I'm fairly sure that race doesn't exist anymore because it was pushing the envelope of what was totally safe. 

Kush: Susan, where do you get this tenacity, this ability to endure?

Like how did you gain this mm-hmm. This quality, this temperament? 



Susan: again, an interesting question and I had to think about it. I didn't know you were gonna ask it, but I think because I grew up in the, in an Air Force family. My father was in the Royal Australian Air Force, and we traveled around a lot.

And I learned to be quite self-sufficient because, and a bit gobby, if I might be so bold, Gobby being a bit [00:15:00] loud and you know, kind of out there because when you move to a new school and you new move to a new neighborhood, you either think or swim. you either, you know, become an incredibly timid, shy child or you, you, you learn to do things on your own.

You enjoy your own company, you make your own way and, and it does give you a certain tenacity, I think. so, uh, the, the other side of it is bloody mindedness. You know, I will, I will just continue with something longer probably than I should sometimes. but I, I don't who, well, who knows what shapes our psychology, but that's the best I can think of that may have triggered my, Determination. 

Kush: Did you have others in your family growing up who were athletic and adventure driven and may have given you company or, mentorship? 

Susan: No, I had, I had an older brother until just recently, and he was, he was a loner. But again, that was informed I think, by his life, uh, and what the Air Force Life [00:16:00] did because he went to boarding school, I didn't, and I don't think he ever quite recovered from that experience.

and was, he was always alone. He liked, you know, going off on the boat and going in fishing and, you know, kind of staying away for days. And so that's just who he was. But it's interesting how those really early experiences, I think, shape us. 

Kush: Susan, again, on the outside, when I look at your List of accomplishments. You know what strikes me most is the variety. When you step out on this path of choosing these wild things, did you ever imagine that you would accomplish this colorful, wide, raining resume? 

Susan: no. And it certainly was not planned. I think so. So should I give you a little bit of history Up until the time I was 30, I was, I [00:17:00] was pretty well a workaholic and um, and smoked two packs of cigarettes a day. And generally, kind of like that was my life. And then I gave up smoking when I was 30 and I thought, oh, I better do something otherwise I'm gonna get very fat. So I just happened to be watching with a friend of mine, the Julie Moss.

Famous crawling across the line, in the Hawaiian Ironman. I dunno if you've ever seen that, that scene. Most, most triathletes have at least. And, you know, she couldn't, she couldn't stand. She ended up being passed by two other runners, but she dragged herself. Um, you know, like, like she was drunk.

She was very dehydrated. And when she came across the line, she, subsequent, subsequently married Mark Allen, who was probably the second most famous Ironman triathlete in the world next to Dave Scott. Anyway, that inspired me. I thought, oh, that's something that I can do to, so I knew I could swim. I mean, all Australians can swim.

That's not hard. And, I'd never really [00:18:00] run, ever. And I thought, well, anyone can ride a bicycle. So I, I just set off training for that. when I finished that. I got into a period of my life that became more and more competitive with triathlon because I sort of thought, okay, I know I can go a very long way.

I know I can do, you know, 180 kilometer bike ride, a 40 2K run and a 4K swim. But can I go faster? Because in my mind, I'm not an athlete. In my mind, I am a normal human being who just happened to be able to pull it outta the bag and do this Ironman, triathlon. So I then focused on shorter distances to see if I could go faster and then did that in a fairly systematic way.

Got myself a, a cycling coach. got myself a running coach, got myself a, not so much a swim coach, but an overall triathlon coach and focused on that. and managed to sort of get to a couple of world championships in, in Olympic distance, triathlons, shorter distance. [00:19:00] And I realized after a while that, well, after about 10 years really of, of doing more and more of these triathlons, that is a very narrow mindset.

I don't know how many triathletes, you know, but, we all tend to be Type A personalities tend to be. Very focused, very boring. Really. At the end of the day, it's all about, you know, the only conversation is about the latest bike, which is, by the way, still a conversation I love talking about. But, the latest run splits or, you know, negative splits or, you know, the technology and et cetera, et cetera.

But a very narrow world. And I just thought, yeah, there's more to life than this. And so I started doing more off-road triathlons. And in order to do those, you start to have to learn new skills. So I've got the biking, I've got the cycling, I've got the, you know, I've got the cycling, I'm running swimming.

So then I started doing kayaking because that's included in a lot of stuff. I started doing mountain biking and I'm the age of 45 by this stage. When I first get on a mountain bike, I may be a [00:20:00] little bit younger and trust me, that is not the age you wanna learn to mountain bike. You wanna be, you know, kind of.

10 years of age on A BMX, throwing it a around the carpark. You don't wanna be getting on a mountain bike and going, oh my God, that's a long way down. I came to adventures out of wanting to get away from a very narrow channel of triathlon as much as I love triathlon. But, and, and there's a, there's a de Newmont to that.

There's an ending to that, that we'll come back to, hopefully. and so out of that grew all the other adventurous things. So, you know, I signed up for one race in China, the mild seven, adventure race, and I had to learn to roller blade for that. as it turned out, my, my father passed away, so I didn't, I couldn't actually go to the race, but yeah, it's like, okay.

So that was, again, in a team of, of four p. Four people and it was mountain biking, it was rollerblading, it was, it was trekking, it was, you know, a whole bunch of, of different things. and then I [00:21:00] started to learn to, the skills base, started to expand. And for me, as I looked back on it, I was applying what I learned in business to sport.

I was applying all my career lessons to sport. Now, in my experience, most people do it the other way around. Most people start out as kids being really good, you know, having some sort of talent for sport. I bet you did. You know, kind of when you're at school and you develop that as you, as you go on, and then it tends to slide when you get into a career and your work life and whatever.

But because I did things completely back to front, I was able to apply those lessons and I thought, okay, so I will find the best person I can to teach me how. How to do this thing, how to perform well in this sport. I will research the hell out. It actually, I did, you know, a lot of, a lot of research into various things I was doing.

I enjoy that, that process. and so yeah, I just kind of think that's [00:22:00] how my approach to adventure developed. It was just a, a logical progression of away from triathlon, which I'd started, which was just a happenstance, but then applying those, kind of life, work lessons to sport was what got me to where I was and I guess to achieve some excellence in, in things.

Kush: I sometimes like to think of humanity consisting of two kinds of. People, there are people who say no, and there are people who say yes. And in my mind, you squarely belong in the latter camp. you saw something, something struck, a fancy, you dove in, and then opportunities doors kinda came your way and you just just kept saying yes to them.

yeah. And I'm just wondering there, you know, for people out there listening [00:23:00] w why is it important to say yes to things that might be uncertain and scary but could lead to new things? 

Susan: I think that is absolutely the key to. Agelessness, if you wanna call it that. Staying young, but also leading a really good life, you know, sort of, I have a friend, I hope, hope he lives in America now.

He's British. I hope he is not listening to this, but he, uh, he's like the head of sponsorship for the North Face, so he could well be listening to. and you know, he does all the commentaries for Tmbs and he does, you know, he's an expert skier, uh, expert biker. you actually, you should get him on your program.

He is, he is about, I don't know, mid sixties now, I guess early sixties, but, does everything outdoorsy. And I met him during the eco challenge and we've been great mates ever since and have raced together on various things Anyway, so I took him one day to a cocktail party. [00:24:00] I can't even remember why on earth we were both going to be at a cocktail party.

He was terrified, absolutely terrified. Like this is back in the day. Now he's much more socialized. and it struck me that what is completely natural for me, because in my business life I had to attend so many cocktail parties. I had to give so many talks I had to do. It was terrifying for some people.

But he did it and he went out of his comfort zone and it was something new. And, you know, he's, he's, I'm sure never looked back because he has to go to lots of functions and things with the North Face. But to me, I don't see the point in continuing on the same trajectory, doing exactly the same things as you did the day before.

I, I, I'm not an adrenaline junkie. I'm not someone who, and I hate that term. I'm not someone who feels the, I feel a need to have a goal that's just to keep my fitness up. but I always like to see, as you say, see new things and, and approach something, you know, so the kayaking course, for example, my husband and I are [00:25:00] going on an arctic cruise now.

We could just go on an arctic cruise and we can sit on the boat and we can, wave at the whales as they go by. Or we can get in a kayak, a sea kayak, and get out there and sea kayak, from the ship and get into, close to the icebergs, et cetera. That requires. I've done a lot of kayaking, but my husband hasn't.

So it required him to learn these new sports. I have to say, my husband, I'm just, just a shout out to my husband at this stage 'cause I've dragged him off on a lot of, a lot of adventures since I've been here a lot and learning a lot of new things. So he is, he's been, he comes cycling, he, kind of, he's doing open water swims now.

He's, you know, it's, it's funny, but I've dragged him off on the kayaking trip now to me, I'm sure he felt a little bit uncomfortable when we hit the waves, you know, on the open sea off goer yesterday. But he took it all in good parts. So he's also someone who was happy to try something new. He is exactly the same age, age as I am.

He is, exactly, he's 68. So it's [00:26:00] not linked to just people who are athletes. It's just a, a, a way of looking at things, being prepared to take on something new that's going to maybe give you, you know, a different perspective on that. 

Kush: Yeah, for sure. And when I look at your trajectory again, you kept starting new things.

You talked about starting mountain biking in your forties. And actually I am,I'm a kindred spirit. And same thing, I purchased the mod bike right when COVID started and 

Susan: Oh, that's 

Kush: it. It was, exhilarating and terrifying. and you know, as people get older, they sometimes narrow down and there is this shift that happens.

Maybe it kind of creeps up on you, you know, you, or one resists starting new things. One starts kinda. Looking at challenges a little bit differently, but you break that mold. [00:27:00] So what is it about you, Susan? Like, what made you want to buck that trend? 



Susan: I don't think it's anything conscious, and I also have to say you are, you're quite right.

I do find myself catastrophizing a lot more than I used to. and not for myself, but for my friends, because I've been doing stuff for a very long time. And when I drag my friends out with these sorts of things, or even my husband, I am terrified for their safety. I'm thinking of all the things that could go wrong and I have to stop doing that because.

It's not healthy for me and not healthy for them. They've also got to learn, you know, and I'm sure I wouldn't take them somewhere that was unsafe. But you don't know other people's limitations. I know my own limitations. I know what, uh, what I do in a, in a crisis, but you don't know other people.

Although my husband, uh, I found out one day, what happens in a crisis. We, [00:28:00] we were scuba diving off. Byron Bay in Australia, and he'd only just learned to scuba dive, in India, actually in the Anderman Islands. Beautiful place if anyone ever wants to scuba dive. And, this was our first dive after he'd been qualified, I think.

we went out on the boat and, you know, got in the water. Funny anecdote, Rajiv thought to himself, God, the fish are really small in Australia. They'd given him a set of goggles, replacement goggles because his were leaking that had a anu, a powered number on them. That was the, and he's swimming around going, God, you know, this fish, they're about this big.

Anyway, so at one point I, I feel my, I'm not getting any air in my, uh, mental block. Anyway, air in my, whatever it is you put in your mouth that block. Anyways,and I start going like this to the dive bus comes up and he goes, you know, okay. And I go, And he looks at my gauge, and I don't use much oxygen when I'm scuba diving.

And he goes, that's okay. And I go, yeah, I know. It's like weird. [00:29:00] So anyway, I'm, I'm just still with Raji. We're budding up and, and suddenly my mast starts sucking to my face, which is a dead giveaway that no oxygen is coming through. And I'm still looking down at the, at my gauge and it's, I'm showing me plenty anyway.

So at that point, you know, I go like this to Rajiv who doesn't blink an eyelid. He just stops what he's doing, takes out his octopus strap, which is the spare, spare breathing apparatus. I grab it and we wait there until the dive master comes over. And I thought, wow, okay, this guy's a keeper. We'd, uh, I think we'd been married maybe only a couple of years, and I thought, yeah, he's pretty cool in a crisis, so I'll keep him.

Oh, by the way, the reason that happened for people who are divers, and it's a, it's a trap to remember, normally you would turn your air on full and then take it back half a turn 

Kush: Yeah. 

Susan: Before you get in. And I went to set up my [00:30:00] equipment not knowing that they'd already done it. So what I did was turned it off fully and only back half.

Oh. So what happened was, uh, my gauge was showing it was full, but the air wasn't coming through. So, always double check that you, that somebody else hasn't tried to set up your equipment before you've got 

Kush: it. Certainly Susan. Yeah. Very interesting on how your partner, your husband has followed.

Joined you has been convinced to be your ally in these adventures. I'm wondering if there is, if you have any tips to share on, on how to convince your, you know, one partner willingly to some unknown adventure? Because I think there are many of us in that boat where, you know, we might wanna go and do some something that feels crazy.

And, uh, we would love for our partners to come around because a lot of these things that, you know we do are, you know, they're not just folks. They are [00:31:00] these very immersive, time consuming things. And they would just be more, rich if our partners came along. But they will not often be convinced if they don't do the same thing.

So what have you learned that can help us? 

Susan: Well, I have a secret weapon. I encourage his golf, I push him out the door and I say, I love being a golf widow. So I have a lot in the bank because as far as he's concerned, it's like, oh God, she doesn't, he doesn't have to consult me. All the other husbands have to consult their wives before they commit to this golf game or that golf game or whatever.

And so I think there's a lot of goodwill, that's being built up in the bank. And so he will 

Kush: right, 

Susan: generally try most things with me. and also we're at a stage in our lives where we probably have a bit more time to do things together, as well as him being able to do his thing on his own and me doing my thing on my own.

And when we come together, it's, um, a bit of fun. I think he's quite adventurous in many ways as [00:32:00] well. I mean, he's not an adventurer. He is not a natural. kind of adventure. He is Indian and he likes his comforts. He comes from the Punjab, you know, loves his food and his whiskey and, and his golf, and his cigars, by the way.

Kush: like anything else, the passage towards most things, find its way through, age old, uh, wisdom and finding balance and understanding what the other person needs. And talking about balance, these pursuits that you have been doing, they require enormous efforts in terms of making time, money, energy, maybe even recovery, any sacrifices you've had to make to be able to live this life.

Susan: You know, I could honestly say I don't think I've made any sacrifices. and I think I've started this by saying it's a very selfish, maybe I didn't, it's a very selfish life I'd led up until when I came to India and met my husband. [00:33:00] Selfish in the sense that I was only responsible for myself. I could choose to do what I wanted to do.

I had a very good career, so I had enough money to, kind of indulge my passion of triathlon and then adventure racing, and then, climbing and, you know, whatever else it might be. I, I would, I was able to be self-sufficient. And then, I guess when I met my husband,I had to think about life as a couple.

and I'm still navigating that, you know, nearly 20 years later, I still went. All my formative years were on my own. I could do. What I wanted to do when I wanted to do it. And then, uh, I guess the only, it's not a sacrifice, it's just, sometimes I have difficulty juggling, particularly in an Indian context, and you'll appreciate this because you come back to India from time to time.

you know, on the one hand people say, oh, it must be fabulous having staff to do this. And it's like, yep. Coming home without having to cook is fabulous, but it brings its own, [00:34:00] you know, kind of, not stresses, but, but there's always somebody around you in the house. I'm used to being on my own, you know, there's, and there's a, you know, a cleaner and a cook and we have a very small, staff compared to most Indians.

Whom we know, but it's still having to organize them, organize my life with Rajiv, organize his life, organize all of our travel, you know, whatever it might be. it's not tough. It just takes a little more, juggling if you like. So I could honestly say I've, I've never had to make any sacrifices for my career, although I would say that my employer probably made a sacrifice when I was training for the Ironman.

Because if there are any listeners out there who are employing triathletes, never let them sign up for an Ironman, because you won't get their full attention. They'll be sitting at their desk falling asleep, they'll be thinking about their next meal. They'll be thinking about their next training program, you know, next, next training session.

Yeah. it's not good to be an employer of an Ironman tri athlete, I think. 

Kush: [00:35:00] Well, I relate to all of the things you said. I mean, I don't live in India, but I. I completely understand this, mixed bag of comforts and also stresses that come with the society and culture that you speak about. Have you had to consciously adapt to the kind of adventures and challenges you seek, since you moved here?

Because like you said earlier, or we talked about Indians have some sort of yen for, uh, taking chances in doing things, but otherwise it's not a very sporty country. how have you adapted? 

Susan: Firstly, I think you would be surprised how sporty India is, amongst a certain, I guess, Maybe socioeconomic group, but that group is growing larger.

You know, the sort of middle class, NRU Park, which is the biggest park in Delhi, for [00:36:00] example. you can't move for the cars there, particularly on a weekend morning with all the joggers. everybody now runs and, and it's the progression that we used that I saw in the West where people start off with a 5K run, then they do a 10 k run, then they do a, a half iron man, uh, they do a half marathon, then they do a marathon, then they do an ultra run.

Now you'd be amazed how many people are doing ultra runs in India. Like just amazed, considering, It's not a natural thing that one would expect. Then what they do is they start doing triathlons. So then they start with a, most of 'em start with a half iron man for whatever reason. Then an Iron man.

And then sadly enough, the next thing they wanna do is go and climb Mount Everest because they think of it as being a, a fitness thing, a tick box, not something that is, needs to be taken seriously with the right skills and the right training and the right, you know, kind of mindset. But overall, I think, I think Delhi is not withstanding the traffic and the pollution and the, like, the most polluted city in the world [00:37:00] apparently.

My, my age has, my lifespan has been reduced by seven years because of living in Delhi, which is okay when you're 45 or when you're 30 or whatever, not when you're 68. It's like, damn, I could do a lot more with those seven years. But that's what you do when you live in, Delhi. 

Kush: Susan. you know, we talked about age we have to maybe start doing some things differently. Any practices, habits, routines you care to share that allow you to stay fit, strong and agile so you can keep pushing the envelope with some of these things you do?



Susan: okay. So, I firstly feel really grateful and I do wake up every day feeling grateful for what my body can do because I haven't had a reason to stop and think I'm getting old. and that's, you know, that's a lot to be grateful for. I can still do stuff. I may not go as far as fast, but you know, I can [00:38:00] still beat most people.

not that I'm trying to beat people, but you know what I mean. Functional strength training three times a week. I've done that for, I don't know, many, many years, probably since I first came here, 20 years. it used to be weight training, in fact, even before I came to India. but then I moved into more functional training.

So I still do a little bit of weight, but more, you know, body weight training and things geared towards, mobility, and, kind of strength for what I want to do. So, cycling strength without getting injured, it is all about not getting injured for me. So 

Kush: three times a week geared to, sorry to interrupt.

K two, many, many people, sorry, will not know what functional training is. So K two, tell us a bit more about what it is that you do with that, why do you shift to this type of training over maybe. Conventional types of, cross training? 

Susan: well, I do, I do cross train as well, but just in the weights [00:39:00] part of things or the, the strength functional training.



Susan: it is all about injury prevention and for me, simple weight training builds strength. It doesn't necessarily counter the sort of, stresses on your body that come from doing a lot of other things. So most functional training is compound exercises. So you're not just working one body part with a weight, you would be, kind of, uh, it's hard to, so bands, you know, using bands is a, is a great way, which is, uh, you know, to build up strength, but you're also working antagonistically with, with a lot of your muscles.

a lot of what one does is a triathlete and certainly a lot of the sports that I do is very. linear, and that's really bad for us as we get older because you need to be able to move, you need to be able to twist, you need to be able just to live life so that you don't fall over and break something.

you know, a lot of the exercises I will do, I [00:40:00] bring about that sort of, change. Also, a lot of what I do is bending forward, so I'll be doing a lot of things that try and get my scapula back. The compound exercises, again, a lot with bands, but also some, free weights and,kind of using body weight on benches and things like that.

But to try and just counter what I'm doing in the, the other kind of training for a sport that I'll be doing. So I, I sort of keep up a consistent swimming cycling, only a little bit of running because, well actually the one setback I. I had for a second was that I have, a lab tear in both hips, which is more in one hip than the other hip.

Basically, it's where your, your socket in your hip, the lining of that. breaks away or breaks down, um, and is torn. So apparently quite common in endurance athletes. Quite common in older people who've done a, a lot of stuff. I don't want hip replacement, but I was told by, again, [00:41:00] during COVID times 'cause I started running thinking, you know, I've gotta do something.

I just, after COVID, I beg your pardon. And the, uh, orthopedic surgeon said. You know, why on earth do you wanna run? You can cycle, you can swim. And I said, because I want to run. It's in my head. I want to be able to run. And so I found this amazing physiotherapist who's the only thing in Canada, by the way, should you ever need a, an amazing physiotherapist.

He talked to the exams in India for, for practicing both in Canada and in America. Anush sacred genius. Anyway, he's, he gave me a set of exercises, diagnosed exactly. He knew what the problem was. And he said, these five minutes worth of exercises are now your medicine. You have to do them every day if you wanna keep doing what you're doing.

And it's simple, uh, you know, exercises to build up my glutes, to mobilize the muscles around my hips before I do anything. and it literally takes five minutes. you know, that, that sort of, commitment to it, it does increase as you get older. You know, I remember back in the day, I never stretched [00:42:00] before or after.

Doing anything now religiously. I have to because I just have to, I also religiously get a massage once a week. And, uh, it was something that I had to convince my husband is a good idea. He said, oh no, I've been told that you can only have deep tissue massage. It's once a month. And I went, yeah, rubbish. And now he does too.

So it, and it really is something that I think everybody, as you get older needs just to keep everything, you know, fairly mobile. I do Pilates twice a week. I've gone back to Pilates when I'm training for something. A lot of this goes by the wayside because I don't have time to do everything. But, uh, I have a really good Pilates reformer Pilates teacher in Delhi.

And again, my husband started coming and it's helping his golf. So, you know, there's, there's lots of advice and help out there to keep us on the road. I don't take a lot of supplements, but I take, magnesium, particularly because of the weather in Delhi. and anybody doing any [00:43:00] endurance training or any training, I think should be on a good magnesium supplement.

I try to get everything else I can from actual food. I don't take collagen supplements. I don't take protein powders. I'm pescatarian. I haven't eaten meat since I was 15, which no one believes because I'm a big strapping Australian girl. But, it's never been a problem for me. So I, just don't eat Meat sits well in India because so many people are either vegetarian or, or don't eat at least beef.

and the only other supplements I take is colostrum, which is a, I don't know if you, should I explain what it is for listeners or would most people know what colostrum is? Correct. It's, um, it's actually the first, free milk that's produced by every mammal, but the one that, that, and it's produced by females when, before they, before they milk, flow start lactating.

And it's kinda like a clear serum. But the one that I get, and you have to be very careful about this, it's gotta be ethical because they've got to, it is taken away from the, the cows only, after [00:44:00] the, the calf has been weaned and, that they leave enough there for the calf to be weaned, but they dry it out and it's just like dried milk powder.

But it's really good for,any sort of, gastrointestinal issues and, dealing with stress of life. But also it's brilliant for muscle building and for women over 40, it's almost impossible to build muscle. You just got to keep what you've got. and that's, I found quite important. Oh, and the only other thing I take is.

brain health supplements, so that's anybody over the age of 55, according to the neurologist that I spoke to, should be taking these things. So it's vitamin E, vitamin B12, Omega-3 and six, and folic acid. So those things should be taken. I think I, have I missed anyone? they're all the things that should be, and calcium.

Calcium, yeah. So good for your brain plasticity to, this whole My mom died of Alzheimer's, well, not Alzheimer's, actually. It was Lewy body's [00:45:00] dementia. So I'm very conscious of trying to keep the brain a bit, loose and flexible. 

Kush: thank you for walking us through. I guess a lot of your, uh, vital regimen about your, functional training, are you self-trained or do you work with a coach?

Susan: Yeah, I've got a brilliant,he's a strength conditioning coach, basically, Indian ex national, um, 400 meter runner. I met him when in, uh, I think the first year I was in Delhi, just looking for, kind of a running go, a strength coach and, and maybe a running coach. And we have been great friends ever since.

Oh, and the best thing is he comes to my mother-in-law as well. In fact, the whole family, in fact, I've got him, I've got him going to everybody. My, my poor Indian family, they've been dragged into this life of mine.

So he, um, he is the personal trainer to my husband and I three times a week. My husband, and my husband, and me, [00:46:00] my mother-in-law, my 92-year-old mother-in-law once a week. Wow. And he does exactly the same things with her that he does with us only slightly modified. So I bought her a little pair of pink barbells or about, uh, kettlebells are about this big.

They're so cute. She swings them around and she does all of that. She does, you know, ball stuff a big, you know, kind of fit ball stuff, but lying on a bed, but she's still doing the, you know, the hamstring curls and what have you on the bed. she's remarkable when she comes here to go, or she's in the pool every day in Delhi, she's in the gym, Kana club pool every day, walking, you know, doing her exercises only for half an hour.

But it's her daily routine. now, you talk about adventurous Indians, she's a 92-year-old Indian woman, came through the petition from, the hall in Pakistan.

She has every reason to just. Sit quietly and, wait for life to enter. There's no way that's happening with my mother-in-law. you know, I've got, I've got role models around me. 

Kush: Beautiful. Susan. You [00:47:00] have obviously learned so much over the years and you seem to have this, you know, veritable cocktail now of like things you do with your body and things you do with your diet and things you do with your daily practices.

When you look back, is this something you feel you could have started doing even sooner, perhaps in your forties, fifties, maybe? I mean, obviously you are still performing at a high level, but is there something that you think you could have started back then that could have been even better for you now?

Susan: Well, I, I certainly should have stopped smoking. shouldn't have ever started smoking in the first place. I think. Actually, there's something that is the adverse of that, and it's something that I've, that I've dropped and I shouldn't have. I started meditating in Australia before I left. so I started in, I don't know, 19 [00:48:00] 90, 19 95, just before the, the World Championships actually. And just, I was in a really stressful job, in advertising in Australia.

And and for me to sit quietly for 15 minutes was nothing short of a miracle. And so it was a practice that I kept up all the way through, like in Australia. Then I left Australia, moved to England to work on the Commonwealth Games over there in Manchester. And that's how I discovered the Lake District and climbing and, you know, lots more kayaking.

I said there's a whole other story continued all the way through there, as a daily practice. And then when I came to India, it stopped. Now how bizarre is that? Because most people come to India for to learn meditation, but it's just because, 

I wasn't in control of my own life and my own time the way I used to be.

Trying to find time on your own in India has been very hard for me. I find it very difficult when there's people around me just to switch off and say, I'm shutting you off. [00:49:00] I'm going. It's not the way I've been brought up. It's a, it's, and to me to be able to carve out the time to meditate, it has been hard.

And I go back and I've got a great meditation teacher in, in Delhi, and I go back to her from time to time and kickstart things. Now you've reminded me. Actually, I've reminded myself. I'm gonna get back into it. But there's very little, I think that, I think you, you learn things. You find things as you need them.

I don't think there's anything I would've started earlier. I was doing yoga, I was doing, you know, a weekly massage back when I was, you know, doing triathlons heavily. That was in my thirties. So, no, I, I think, you know, I've always been aware of Pilates, yoga, things that are good for you, So, no, I don't think so.

Kush: it sounds a little bit backwards that, you know, the world seems to at least want to come to India to, or at least India exports this brand of, I, this identity, which includes a lot of meditation, but, uh, but I would [00:50:00] also have to agree that, the environment here can also make it a little challenging to be able to find that.

Peace, some quiet, or maybe that's the, the level of meditation that I can't aspire to yet, because I have a small practice of my own. And apparently people tell me that, next level practitioners can find that mental space no matter where they are. I can't either. It's 

Susan: yeah, me either. I have, uh, I like a quiet room.

Kush: I have another slightly contrarian question for you. You went ahead and you did all these different books, Susan, like, all kinds of things that we have spoken about. Do you think there was a cost there where if you had maybe chosen to just stick with the triathlons or the, the adventure races or something else where you would have maybe accomplished some sort of next level excellence?

Susan: Well, actually to go back to something I [00:51:00] said, maybe we will, you know, kind of roll back to that. The last thing on earth I expected to be doing was triathlons at this stage. now, I mean, back in the day I thought, yeah, I'm gonna keep doing triathlons all the way through. then, as I said, after 10 years, it was like, oh, these people are so boring.

I'm just gonna get, I'm so rigid and whatever. But then, here I am in India three years ago, a girlfriend of mine says I'm turning 50. I wanna do a half iron, man, can I do it? And, but she can't, couldn't even swim properly at that stage. Certainly never swam in the ocean. And this is, you know, maybe nine months before the race.

And then another girlfriend was in the same boat and she certainly couldn't tread water, let alone, But anyway, I signed up on the basis that I said, yeah, you can do it, you can do it, you know, in your adventurous. And I said, look. I'll come and do it with you. So thought, how hard can it be? anyway, so I sign up for this racing go a half Iron Man, and it is the hottest thing I've ever been involved with.

Not withstanding the fact it was [00:52:00] 50 degrees in when I ran the marathon to s you know, in the Sahara Desert carrying on my own gear, at least there was a breeze blowing, and this is Goa in whatever it was, October I, I've never felt anything like the heat. you know, I. And there were jellyfish as well.

That's a whole other story. So I get outta the swim, get on the bike, and I, I find out my, from my husband as I come around on one of the, the bike loops that the girls have made, made the swim cut off. So I was like, oh my God, that's brilliant. So that really sort of spurred me on, kept going, cramped really badly on the bike so bad I had to stop, two or three times, obviously not taking on enough fluid.

Rookie mistake, didn't take any salt tablets. also had not trained enough. and it was quite a hilly course, which I'm thinking gala is flat. Actually it wasn't, the course was not flat. And so, you know, by the time I got to the transition to get off the bike, I couldn't even get off the bike. And my husband was standing there and, saying to this [00:53:00] one of the marshals, you know, she can't get off the bike.

I literally was standing a stride, the bike. I knew if I lifted up one leg, I would cramp so badly that the bike would go down. I would go down. And so Raje knew enough not to. Not to try and help me because then I'd be disqualified. and I'm saying, no, stay this anyway. A bit of a disaster, but then I found out that the girls didn't make the bike cutoff after that.

So I thought, well, one of us has got it finished. I was really just doing it for fun. Theoretically. It was so hot. And the run was three laps up a hill. Do you know goer at all? Anyway, it was up, it was up a hill to, um, the governor's house and down the hill three times. So it's 21, 21 K. It's just up a hill, downhill up a hill, downhill in the heat.

With very little shade. that's the whole thing about not being able to get enough water on board. My stomach was, you know, it felt like I was nine months pregnant, but I still couldn't get any water into me. It was, you know, I couldn't get enough water into me anyway, sadly enough, at the end of that, I was the only 65 to [00:54:00] 69-year-old, silly enough to do this sort of race.

So of course I won my age group and that meant I qualified for the world championships in, uh, lake TPO in New Zealand. So suddenly I found myself back into, competitive triathlon world championships. You know, I felt like a complete fraud and. And as it turned out, I felt like a complete fraud over there as well.

I think I was the only person who didn't have, you know, kind of profile bars on my bike. 'cause I hadn't trained with them here. So I thought no point in, you know, risking my life over there with, with profile bars, which you sort of get down on, on a bike. Mm-hmm. Long story. Mm-hmm. Yeah. but anyway, so the Fuller, the point being, I left triathlon, got a certain level of excellence and I found myself back up, you know, where I'm supposed to perform at that at a similar kind of level of excellence with people my age.

I, I honestly, because I don't, I've never seen myself as an athlete, as someone who's good at anything. I, I don't feel like I don't have any regrets about not having reached Olympic level or something. 'cause [00:55:00] that's, that was never going to happen. I just wanted to do something else that was a, an adventure and see if I could do that.

see if I could, if my body, my mind, whatever would let me. but moreover, something that's fun, something that's out in nature, something that's, you know, using your body out in nature. that's what was always driving me. Mm-hmm. Not, you know, for a minute when I was in triathlon, was about getting better, getting faster.

but not, I'm the least competitive person I know in many ways. I mean, if someone starts coming up behind me, I'll just let 'em go. The biggest, the only person I'm racing is myself. So I, triathlon was a perfect sport for me because I, you know, I, I don't, I look at people in the Olympics and like, oh my God, how can they, how fabulous that they can do that.

But that's, that's not me. My gig is just what else can I do with this body for as long as I can?

Kush: Beautiful. I mean, in some ways, again, back to the power of saying yes, you said yes to accompany helping this friend of yours. And again, look [00:56:00] at where it's 

Susan: what happened, 

Kush: brought to you, full circle moment. Another thing you said I want to ask you is you talked about how you liked moving your body in nature.

What does that give you? 

Susan: Oh, peace. Peace. I mean, it's the only time, particularly in water if I'm on, in or around water, it's just bliss for me. That's as close as I get to Nevada, I think. it's just something about that and I guess being Australian,it drives some of that. But I just, and, you know, I'm sitting here, sorry, but I, I can't help looking outside because we've got a swimming pool and the birds come and drinking the swimming pool often.

Now, if you'd told me, 40 years ago that I would enjoy birdwatching, it'd be like, yeah, as if, but I'm loving watching birds, you know, and there, that's all part of being in nature, being around nature, learning new things [00:57:00] again. 

Kush: Coming to the end of this conversation, Susan, I have this thing I call the ageless round.

So my first question is, what does being ageless mean to you?

Susan: I think it probably means not being defined by context, not being defined by someone saying, at your age you should be like this. Or someone saying to my 92-year-old mother-in-law, you are doing quite well, you're doing very well, you're doing amazingly for a 92-year-old. No, she's just doing amazingly.

Actually, it doesn't matter what it it's fabulous that chronologically that she's, she's still, pushing along. But, you know, to me it's, and I've been really spoiled because I, again, because I grew up in the Air Force and because I traveled so much in my life and I've lived, been lucky enough to live in two different places overseas.

I don't see the people I went to [00:58:00] primary school with. I don't see the people I went to, to kindergarten with. And I know a lot of people in Delhi who do, and you know, I think they. Dumb each other down rather than building each other up. It's too easy to be comfortable um, to fall into the paradigm of what that person next to you is doing.

They're your age, or maybe I should slow down, whatever. But Raj, even I hang out with a lot of younger people. not because we're, we don't like people our own age. We do, but in terms of the way we're living our lives, probably it's, we would be doing stuff more with younger people. So I think being ages means that, that you don't, you don't think about your age, it's like being colorblind or, you know, sort of, colorblind by meaning, in terms of, of racism.

You know, you don't stop to think that person is brown. That person's, sorry, 

Kush: maybe age blind, you know? 

Susan: Age blind. [00:59:00] Yeah, yeah. Age blind. Indeed. And, and not, it doesn't even enter, it doesn't enter my mind. You know how old I find it difficult judging people's ages actually. because they're, because I don't focus on that, if that makes sense.

So, and, but for me, I'm fixated in my 24th year. I hate the person I see in Amira. If I go past 'em, I'm like, oh my God, who's that person? 'cause that's not what I see in me. that's just this thing in the mirror. It's just unfortunate that the body is not, like, and the face is not keeping up with the, with the rest of my self image.

But I think there's nothing wrong with not growing up. I intend to go this face 

Kush: and I, I, I should probably title this episode. I, this might just be the, the winning line, which is, uh, yeah, there's nothing wrong with not growing up. Susan, a related question, which is, what does so society get wrong about aging?



Susan: [01:00:00] again, I think it comes back to definitions and context. You know, we're, we're very quick to put people into little boxes. you are 50, so you should be like this. You are 60, so you should be like that. You are 70, so you should be like that or acting like that. I think it's breaking down very quickly, but,in India there's a lot of, a lot of things that come with that.

like the whole of the structure of Indian society and what it means to age is breaking down. There's a lot more nuclear families now. There's a lot more need. The care of older people because they're not being kept within the family, grouping and frankly a lot of, you know, kind of, uh, without being too serious about it, but Ill treatment of older people or not, not taking enough care of them from a societal perspective.

'cause they are so important. They have so much to give. and, and we should be doing everything we can to keep them active, to keep [01:01:00] them, um, being able to keep contributing rather than shunning them away in a corner and, um, and not providing adequate facilities or giving them, you know, just some motivation.

Actually it's, I think they're stopped now, but there used to be televised yoga classes, by Punji, whatever the guy's name is, and I thought they were brilliant, you know. Okay. Some of it was good, some of it wasn't appropriate for, but at least it gave people, access to that because most people have a television or a, smartphone or something.

But as a society, India is not looking after its age, not taking a, a policy perspective on aging. Yet society is breaking down faster for aging people in this country than anywhere else in the world, I suspect, because we've had such a strong joint family culture, and, and now it's just not happening.

Kush: yeah, picked up on all these facets, the historical [01:02:00] lineage and also things that are changing so quickly in your time in India, Susan, from all things that we can see, I mean, you are just full of vitality. You have all these golden front of you. But is there something that scares you about your own aging ahead of you?



Susan: Scares me. I, I really would not like to pass the way my mother passed. And if I'm honest, that's scary. because she wasn't able to speak at the end. yeah, she wasn't in control of her life. as far as, that's probably more death, but as far as aging is concerned.

You know, I'm not fond of, I'm not fond of the wrinkles, I'm not fond of the, body sagging. I'm not fond of those sorts of things, but I'm still able to do stuff and I guess it doesn't scare me that I won't be able to do that stuff. 'cause I can't foresee a time when I wouldn't be, you know, as long as I, as long as I [01:03:00] keep applying myself and, you know, I look at, again, my 92-year-old mother-in-law.

There's no reason why I can't keep doing stuff for a very long time. So that doesn't, that doesn't scare me. you know, we all die so when that happens. I would much rather have a, a really good fulfilling life than live to, you know, a hundred and be, not able to use this body.

Kush: Last part of the, uh, conversation, Susan. It's the rapid fire round, and I'm going to drop these expressions at you, and you just have to give me a single word answer and please don't a single 

Susan: word. 

Kush: Yeah, please don't, uh, think about it. Just whatever comes to your mind.

just articulate. Any approach 

Susan: is gonna be monitoring this at any point. 

Kush: I mean, who knows who's gonna listen to this, but nobody's gonna be evaluating you for anything. They're only gonna be, uh, [01:04:00] enjoying the chat. Okay. 

Susan: Okay. 

Kush: Discipline is, 



Susan: focus, 

Kush: fear is, 



Susan: damaging.

Kush: Recovery is 

Susan: essential. 

Kush: Competition is, 



Susan: healthy, 

Kush: aging is 

Susan: necessary. 

Kush: Adventurous, 



Susan: critical. 

Kush: Home is 

Susan: comforting. 

Kush: Next is, 



Susan: it's English channel. 

Kush: Ah, amazing. 

Susan: I don't know why I just said that. I don't know why I said that, because it's not yet planned and it's been hanging around for a long time on the bucket list and I, I really don't know why I said that, but maybe if my subconscious said it, maybe it's time to focus on, I've been enjoying all my long distance open water swims and,maybe that's what I'm gonna do next.

Kush: Beautiful. I feel fortunate that, , you dropped [01:05:00] us with the next thing we get to cheer you on for. 

Susan: Let's hope I do it. But can I ask your question now? May I ask you a question? Where's your favorite surfing? Where is your favorite surfing break? 

Kush: There are so many incredible breaks in the world. The one that I love the most is this, pickle and violent and temperamental and occasionally very beautiful beach, right by San Francisco called Ocean Beach.

It's where I learned to surf. 

Susan: Isn't it cold? 



Kush: it's very cold and it's very cold. It's very, shorty and like I said, it's very fickle. We only have, a few days of, lined up swell, and you are way, way more likely to get beaten down than actually get a lot of rights. But there's something absolutely magical [01:06:00] about having this element right next to this, crazy urban, big city and being able to just go down there and escape from everything else and, uh, catch few waves.

Susan: Wow, that's brilliant.