Fuel for the Long Haul — EC Synkowski on Simple, Science-Backed Nutrition (Rebroadcast)

Ageless Athlete - Optimize Me - EC Synkowksi
===

Kush: [00:00:00] Hey, everyone. Welcome back to the Ageless Athlete Podcast. This is your host, Kush Khandelwal, and this is episode number 50. Just a number, but feels like a little bit of a milestone. So today we are diving into a topic that is close to my heart and also my belly and maybe yours as well. We are talking about nutrition.

This is a different kind of an episode. We are diving into, an area that is so important to our wellbeing, to our performance and ultimately our longevity in order to fuel ourselves with the best possible diet and nutrition. And let's be [00:01:00] honest, with all the conflicting advice out there, it can feel overwhelming to figure out what to do.

What actually works. That's why I'm so excited to bring you this conversation with E. C. Sienkowski. E. C. is the founder of Optimize Main Nutrition and the brilliant mind behind the 800 gram challenge. A ridiculously simple but game changing way to get your fruits and veggies in. What I love about E. C. is that she cuts through the noise with practical no nonsense advice that anyone can follow.

E. In this episode, we dig into some of the most common questions I hear all the time. How much protein do we really need? What's the deal with fasting? And how can we keep things simple even when life gets crazy? EC also shares tips for fueling up during outdoor adventures and the habits that help you stay consistent [00:02:00] for the long haul.

This was such a fun and insightful chat and I walked away with so many takeaways I can actually use in my own life. I think you are going to feel the same way. So grab a cup of coffee or maybe something healthier and let's jump right into it.

ECec_1_11-05-2024_150441: on the East Coast beautiful warm day. Today for breakfast, I had the same thing I always have, which is a protein bar and a banana. And then I already have had lunch too, which is the same thing I always have, which is chicken on salad with tomatoes,

Kush: Well, one of the things that I am learning from you is the foundation of many good things is consistency. And, and I'm finding that Most of the athletes I speak with on the spot, they also often have the same breakfast, but I will be honest and just ask you a protein bar. It's something that I [00:03:00] lean on when I'm basically out of options.

I'm on the road. I don't have anything else. I reach into my bike bag or my glove compartment and fish out the back. Why are you eating a protein bar in the morning?

ECec_1_11-05-2024_150441: Yeah. I mean, I don't, I don't think it's quote less than, I think there's a lot of beliefs about food that don't really serve us. At the end of the day, we have to hit a certain amount of nutrients that are good for our goals. And there is room for some processed food in their diet. There is some room for protein bars. Um, a lot of my diet is mostly whole unprocessed foods, but I enjoy protein bars. And for me in the morning, I pretty much just kind of get up and get my day started right away. Okay. So it's really a quick thing that doesn't really get in the way of that whole process going. So for me, it's out of convenience and I guess enjoyment. Um, but I also just kind of like giving that caveat that not everything needs to be, you know, totally whole foods, perfect, never, never touched any level of [00:04:00] industrialization. There is some room for that in a healthy diet.

Kush: And what kind of, what's your favourite, uh, bar that you eat?

ECec_1_11-05-2024_150441: Yeah, well, unsponsored, unaffiliated. I do really enjoy the Bear Bells bars, um, but to be perfectly honest, they are not sold at the grocery stores that are more convenient to me. So I end up using the, um, protein bar at the Aldi supermarket chain. Yeah.

Kush: Okay, okay, great, great. to start off with, actually, you see, so people know who you are, can you share who you are and what do you do?

ECec_1_11-05-2024_150441: I'm a licensed dietician nutritionist in Maryland. I also hold a certified nutrition specialist credential. And I started OptimizeMe Nutrition, uh, probably years ago now to help people cut through the noise online about nutrition. There's just so much coming at people. It's like, hey, how can we do this in a more simple and sustainable way when they have weight health and fitness goals. So yeah, I work a lot with individual clients, but then I [00:05:00] also have programs for gyms and even corporate wellness programs to help people get after these goals. Yeah.

Kush: having Juliet Starrett on my podcast and Juliet shared a lot of amazing insights and she spoke about the food plan she recommends for the everyday busy person. That led me down to reading their book as well and in their excellent book, Built to Move, there is this component of a person's food structure, which I think is such an important part of any healthy lifestyle.

Like you can't just do all these other things with your exercise and your mental health and your sleep and not talk about what you consume. And that's where I discovered that a lot of the science that Juliet speaks about and she told me herself is [00:06:00] also inspired by the work you do. And then I started looking you up and I was immediately, Yeah, I was kind of blown away by a lot of the things that you do and speak about.

And may I say provide to the rest of us in this very digestible, easy to follow manner. So let's start off with, I understand you studied maybe some functional medicine as well. And then you went on to play role with CrossFit. What led you to founding Optimize Me Nutrition?

ECec_1_11-05-2024_150441: Yeah, I do. I mean, I have a background in biochem, actually biochem engineering. I did some work with environmental sciences for a while. I was in environmental litigation for a while, then CrossFit, now nutrition, um, I think largely spurred on by the fact that was my, it was a personal interest of mine for some period of [00:07:00] time.

I was always very athletic. I was always very interested in fitness. And of course was interested how nutrition could help that aim. But I also had gone through a lot of the different trends that I think a lot of people are subject to, you know, whether or not it's these extreme restrictive diets or over hyper of numbers and stuff like that, and to be honest, I didn't ever have a transformational approach or transformational result from any of them. Which, in hindsight now, I think was actually really great, because I think what happens to a lot of people is they might go on a trendy diet, see some really dramatic results, and then they think that's the only diet that works. in the end, I had tried all of these different diets and had no real big difference from any of them. If anything, just more frustration and confusion. So, I think that's ultimately what kind of led me to doing what I'm doing, because I think there's a lot of people like me, I mean, whether or not they might see temporary results, they don't sustain them, or they just are a little bit confused of like, how is this possible that there's, you know, [00:08:00] hundreds of different diets, all people get different results, like, what's the reason, what's the unifying reason between, um, all these different diets that drive results?

And so I think, you know, Some of it was just personal base that I kind of wanted to answer that question for myself, but then also find people who had the same sort of struggle. I don't, and 

Kush: industry and the space is absolutely huge. And there's a lot of room for innovation, growth, all of that. Curious, do you have a personal story of why nutrition was perhaps your true calling? 

ECec_1_11-05-2024_150441: I kind of wish I did because I get this question and it's sort of like, not random, but it's just like, why am I doing this? And I think I even asked it myself sometimes. I'm like, why am I driven to do this? You know, I do think some of my past, um, education and professions actually led me to [00:09:00] it. I really, really enjoy making the complex simple. Um, and so I think nutrition has that in spades. I think there's so much confusion for people and so many details for people. me figuring out a way for people to make it more simple while also getting results. Um, I really enjoy that. And I, I, if I'm being honest, I think the topic could change, but it's the problem, problem solving aspect that I enjoy a lot. Of course, with helping people as well. Yeah.

Kush: Your background EC of working with CrossFit is interesting because, because outdoor athletes or all kinds of athletes need to also spend some time working in let's say fitness facilities or let's say the modalities that CrossFit athletes use as well. I'm curious When you were working in that space, did you observe any particular things that CrossFitters were doing or maybe were not doing that also helped inform your journey where you're like, you know, [00:10:00] maybe these are people who are already fairly health and fitness conscious, but there are some clear gaps in the way they approach food and nutrition.

ECec_1_11-05-2024_150441: Yeah, for sure. I, I think, um, Gosh, I don't even know where to start with that question. I think just because somebody is active every day, certainly they're doing a lot for their health, but that doesn't mean they're consistent with their nutrition. And I actually think nutrition is much harder to get people to be consistent with because it's so, so much more constant and so more present in our lives where you could, even though you're an, if there's an outdoor athlete, maybe it's a little bit longer, but let's say a regular CrossFitter, they can really restrict their fitness to one hour a day. Where eating is at least three times a day, and it's at every social event, and it's every holiday. So it's around us constantly. And so I think nutrition is harder for people to be consistent with because there's so many more times we have to get it right. so I think even for [00:11:00] people who are in the CrossFit community, while they, are probably doing better, or any fitness community, are probably doing better than the average American with their diet.

That doesn't mean that they're doing all that they can. And so, even something I know, I'm sure we're going to talk about fruits and vegetables, but, you know, according to the USDA, 80 percent of people aren't eating enough fruit, 90 percent of people aren't eating enough vegetables. Like, that means that fitness minded people are included in those numbers. So, there's lots of some of the basics of consistency that those communities need for sure. 

Kush: You see what you said makes a lot of sense because most of us, when we decide to go and work out at the gym or somewhere else, we are very focused on that activity, but eating correctly, that's like a day long thing.

Basically, whenever I am not sleeping. There is some part of me that is involved with food in some way.

ECec_1_11-05-2024_150441: Mm

Kush: I'm either eating it, thinking about it, or maybe even digesting it. [00:12:00] So yeah, I think there's a loss of focus, but the other thing also is that eating well, you know, it's a long term game. and it doesn't give you the tangible results that let's say going to the gym for an hour and you don't feel those endorphins, you don't come back a week later and see your muscles grow.

So I think it's, it's harder to get right. Let's jump into some of your foundational, let's say nutritional insights. Let's start with your 800 gram challenge, which is what I discovered and I was so in awe of. Let's see. So, Yeah, I get to interview its founder now. Can you, can you unpack that for the rest of us?

What is the 800 gram challenge?

ECec_1_11-05-2024_150441: Yeah. Yeah, it's, I mean, I hinted at it with the fruits and veggies that I really have people focus on adding more fruits and veggies to their diet in a sustainable way by adding 800 grams by weight of the fruits and vegetables of their choice each day. And then [00:13:00] they continue to eat whatever else they want.

So they'll probably still have their protein foods. They'll probably still have their snack foods, whatever. But they place this 800 grams. by weight. And it's their choice. It could be apples, bananas, it could be beans, it could be potatoes, it could be olives, avocado, it could be broccoli. But it doesn't have to be broccoli.

It gets to be what you, you want. And so this is what makes it really sustainable, in addition to the idea that you don't have to cut out other foods you love. Now a lot of times people find that some of the snack foods they were eating decrease because they have all this volume of the fruits and veggies, which is a nice benefit of it, but we're not obsessively worried about okay, some days I might have a cookie or some days I might have a piece of cake.

Instead, we're just placing focus on what we're adding to the diet, not taking away. adityadasturja97@gmail.com And I'll just add that, you know, the idea for me came out of seeing a research study that was looking at fruit and vegetable consumption relative to health outcomes. So it was a meta analysis. They combined the results of 95 different studies that said, Hey, how much [00:14:00] fruits and vegetables are people eating?

And then what happens to them in terms of death and disease? And no surprise, it was the 800 gram number where the risks went down for like cardiovascular disease and dying and stroke and cancer. And so it comes from. data about people living and breathing this number and being able to reduce their health risk.

Now, I added some rules and I made it into like a diet approach and stuff, but I just like people to know that it wasn't this wacky thing I did with my diet and I was like, Oh, everyone should follow me. Instead, it came out of research of literally looking at tens and hundreds of thousands of people.

It's like, Hey, what are diets people are eating that are better associated with health? 

Kush: This is wisdom. 

I will definitely admit that while I like to think that I am plant based with some seafood and I like to consume plenty of fruits and vegetables, I don't think I'm actually meeting the daily needs that you prescribe. And I feel like there are a few things [00:15:00] people like me can do to unblock ourselves.

So I'm going to ask a few follow up questions. So first question is, Most of us don't have a weighing scale handy in our pockets, you know, when we're either eating or shopping for food. Are there any hacks on how we can, uh, easily, uh, quantify what that amount of food looks like?

Yeah, for sure. It ends up being around six cups for most fruits and vegetables and a cup is about the size of your closed adult fist size. So you can think about it as six cups or six fists a day. And one of the strategies I like to tell people is two cups or two fists at like each main meal of breakfast, lunch, and dinner.

And so that can be a nice strategy approach and it really can ground your meal so you can sort of think about it as okay, well at breakfast maybe I'll have an orange and a banana. and my protein bar and then go on my way. Now I end up, I know I already gave my example of my breakfast, I skew mine, my grams a little bit later in the day, but [00:16:00] nevertheless, um, the six cups method works for people that are a little bit overwhelmed or not interested in using a scale.

Yeah,

veggies, do they like need to be, uh, tightly packed? So like, Like letters, for example, right? Letters, or remain, whatnot, like, does it have to be packed so that it actually is not taking up a lot of volume?

so lettuce is kind of the one exception to the six cups rule where That doesn't really weigh very much. So when people are estimating by using their cup or their fists, I just tell them to add as much lettuce as they want, but don't necessarily consider it a true cup, because it would take actually five fists or five cups to equal one cup of the weight of, let's say, peppers or apple or blueberries or broccoli or something like that.

So lettuce is certainly healthy, but some of the reason why the weight is so useful is that the serving [00:17:00] size of the food you eat helps tell your brain that you're full. Now, there's lots of things that tell yourself that you're full, but one is the serving size. So, when we eat large volumes of fruits and veggies, this helps fill us up.

This helps us feel full. This helps with satiety. And so, this is how we can sort of, Keep ourselves feeling full on healthy things instead of filling up on all of the processed stuff. Um, but that, all of that to say is like the lettuce doesn't do that as much. It's still quite healthy. I still want people to have it.

But like, let's say I'm traveling and I'm thinking about my six cups method. I'll probably estimate stuff on top of my salad. But I'm not going to worry too much if I get like, 50 extra grams from a salad because it's just like you had hinted at. It's so volumous, but it's not very heavy. So again, when you don't have a scale, I just think about it as, okay, I'm going to have six cups a day and then as many leafy greens as I want, not worrying exactly what the weight of those are.

Isi, your research answer is so comprehensive. It's obvious that your research and your methodology [00:18:00] behind the food guidance has been so comprehensive. There's a couple other follow up questions. One, are all veggies and fruits the same? So I know a lot of people love eating potatoes, right? And potatoes could be baked, could also be fried.

Another example, persimmon season just hit California. I've been binging on persimmons. I will not admit how many persimmons I can eat through in one day. So can you give us some insights into what kind of fruits and vegetables are let's say the best part of this diet?

Yeah. Yeah, the best ones are going to be the ones that you eat, and I know that sounds silly or that sounds flippant, but the best ones are the ones that you eat. Um, I, I do, I don't allow fried potatoes, so we can't do french fries, but if you want to roast them at [00:19:00] home, that's fine. If you want to bake them at home, that's fine, but not commercially fried french fries from McDonald's.

Those don't count, but other potatoes count. And then tons of fruit is good. I think what people don't understand is that fruits and vegetables have lots of different micronutrients in them, so even though some might be better in Vitamin C and others might be better in magnesium. Once you have a few of them in the day, in addition to the other foods that you're going to eat, you're going to actually cast a wide net across all of the nutrients you need.

And so people will worry about the best, when in reality you don't need the best. You need a good amount of them. with some diversity. I mean, it doesn't every single day. You don't need to have 30 different fruits and vegetables, but you know also every single day You're not only gonna eat persimmons.

You'll have a lot, but you'll have some other things and when you have a mixture of them You don't need the best in any single one because you cast a wide net and you capture a lot of vitamins and minerals that way So even things and I just ran an [00:20:00] analysis Um, for my podcast, but even basic things like tomato and lettuce and banana and potato are really, really healthy.

And I kind of get sick of people looking down on stuff like that and thinking they all need kale or like locally sourced raspberries to be healthy. When really run of the mill stuff, potatoes, onions, um, bananas, carrots, apple are really, really healthy and should not be overlooked. And so long as we have a little bit of mixture, especially across days, you're going to be fine.

I've had friends tell me that you know some Fruits and veggies are easier to eat than others. So it's way easier to, let's say, seems to me at least, that, you know, pick up an apple, or pick up, pick up a bag of carrots, right? But then some of them like, like kale, for example, sometimes they need some prepping, you know, because the stalks are hard to eat, for example.

So one has to, you know, uh, pick the right kind of, uh, leafy vegetables, come home, wash it, you know, chop it. And then one [00:21:00] can just, it's harder to eat them, uh, just out of the bag and raw. So I think I follow that, that the total that one should not obsess over the variety, but I'm guessing that some variety is important.

Like one can't, you know, one can't just focus on a few kinds of things and you know, a lot of your guidance and others also talk about like, you know, the amount of the abundance of, let's say color on our plates. So any hacks, any tips on how we can incorporate more variety as well. Even though, let's say, we are drawn to maybe a smaller set of, uh, frozen veggies, but how can we make it a bit more expansive where if we just do these things a little bit differently?

Like, I'll give you one of my hacks, which is I like to keep some frozen veggies my

I think that's

freezer all the time, right? So I can quickly throw in [00:22:00] some chopped kale or some frozen spinach when I'm making a soup. Even when I'm boiling rice or quinoa, I can just throw that in there. So that's one hack I have. But any other things that you have found work well with people?

Yeah, I think that's great. I love the frozen variety. I also like that just because there's a longer shelf life. So people don't spend all this money and they don't use it. I think some of the other things are shop seasonal and shop sales. Those can kind of. Provide some variety, um, and also some excitement in your, in your day to day stuff that, you know, is almost like forced upon you or just makes sense to because it's just more available and it helps with the budget as well.

So I like that stuff. I was also going to say, and I know people might push back and say it's a little bit more expensive, but if it helps you with variety and even enjoyment, Consider looking for the options that are already cut up and prepped or washed. Um, because there are some things that I really [00:23:00] love, like I love Delicata squash, but I don't really feel like buying it and cutting it and taking out the seeds, so I just buy it already sliced.

But the beauty of that is that I actually eat it. And there's so many great things, even in the frozen aisle, that are like cut up, mixed frozen veggies already done. even without no sauces and stuff like that, that I think there's, there's been such a premium placed on convenience that grocery stores and options are out there for people to make it work.

And so that's also things to be looking out for, like what's already done for me and in foods that maybe I don't really feel like chopping up the kale and washing and all of that stuff.

I will say that, I mean, there are some benefits to this hyper capitalism

Mm.

we live in, that we have so many conveniences on how we can get those things. I like to think that, yes, ideally You know, one will go to [00:24:00] farmer's markets and buy everything local and produce close by and go through all the processes to prepare it.

But, you know, uh, let the, you know, let, let perfect not be the enemy of good. So if you cannot do that, then I think what you're advocating is let, let that not keep you.

Mm hmm.

And I know you speak extensively on this and I love all of that where you advise people these, some of these basic things on making choices, right?

Making form choices on, on, for example, just this, are there any other bits of like simple tips, et cetera, that you can share about, you know, choosing a versus the other. And again, maybe not let perfect be the enemy of good.

Specific to the 800 gram challenge or nutrition in general?

You know, just focusing on being [00:25:00] able to get the right amount of fruits and veggies because I think a lot of us are challenged in being able to do that. I know it is so much easier to grab a packet of nuts or chips or something else when one is hunger, when one is hungry as compared to, so I am certainly looking to, you know, join you in this movement. on just getting more of these things and making it simpler for people to access. Because a lot of us, again, busy lives and whatnot, find it hard to consume these, uh, things in good quality. One thing

I do think we're surrounded by a lot of tempting options and certainly a lot of places make it easier for us to make the wrong choice. But I think places have come a long way, like gas [00:26:00] stations have cut up fruit available. Um, you know, you can go into any of the, any grocery store has all of these cut up options ready.

Chipotle, you can do a great meal with 400 grams easily and any sort of similar type of cuisine place. So, no, it's going to be hard if you stop at McDonald's or if you stop at, you know, Burger King to do this. But most of our time is spent in these rather you know, developed areas where we can pull into a grocery store.

It'll be the same amount of time as pulling into a fast food place. You just go in and out, you go to their cut up produce section, section, you grab it, you grab a yogurt to go. It's five, 10 minutes, pull into a gas station, get a couple of bananas. You know, this stuff is all over the place. We just have to look for it and we also just have to kind of change our habits.

Instead of going to the fast food place, we're going to go ahead and drive another block and pull into the grocery store. I think a lot of this stuff is there, um, and at [00:27:00] some point, it's just the matter of the person making the decision that I'm going to do this, um, instead of the current choices.

that I wanted to mention, I forgot was the, uh, just two nights ago, I was at the And I was very hungry and I ended up getting a party platter of cut up fruits and veggies. So, you know, it has celery, tomatoes, carrots and broccoli, I think. And it also came with like this huge container of ranch. And I was like, Oh my goodness, that is, that is a lot of ranch.

I found spicy guacamole in a can, uh, in a, in a, in a container. I threw out the ranch. And I ate all these veggies with the spicy guacamole and it was, it was delicious, right? So I agree that sometimes one has to choose the convenient option One last thing on the on this topic is I grew up in India where [00:28:00] You know despite being mostly plant based The Meals were not always so nutritious, you know, because, uh, because of the way the food is prepared, it is often laden with, let's say, a lot of oils and maybe some thickening agents in the gravy.

So can you comment on what is, again, a reasonable way to prepare these foods so it, they, they, they carry over all their nutrition?

Hmm. Well, I would argue that, you know, Traditionally prepared Indian foods are fine. I think, you know, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think some of the health woes that India and any other developing or developed country is facing is more of an issue of the overconsumption of ultra processed foods and a decrease in exercise.

than it is necessarily the curries. So, you know, I think there's a lot of, and this is true [00:29:00] for virtually any culture that I know of, I think a lot of the traditional dishes are quite healthy. It's the modern, uh, twists on them, it's more of the fried options, and then maybe even the quantity in the serving sizes that maybe skew a little unhealthy than it is necessarily to change So If anything, I would say for some of that stuff, it's like, okay, a little bit less fried stuff, maybe a little bit less on the portions.

Maybe we don't need four slices of naan, you know, but the actual curry dish itself or whatever, their mixed veggie dish, chicken dish, um, often is quite healthy. You know, one of my favorite ones is chicken saag. It's got a ton of spinach in there. I get it, there's fat in there as well, but I really don't think, you know, if we look at, again, if we look at rates of obesity, you know, in the U.

S. anyway, they start in the 80s. So it's not like our traditional dishes, even in the U. S., are the problem. It's not the traditional [00:30:00] dishes in any culture that's the problem. It's the hyper processed industrial food that we over consume that's the problem.

I think you're right that the curries themselves are not the problem. I think it's all the naan and the breads and the fact that it's so delicious and the sweets, you know, and I also think, and maybe this is a good segue that let's say traditional plant based meals don't always have enough protein. So I think that is probably also one thing that lacks in some of these traditional, let's say, Asian, other cuisines.

Can you also talk about your recommended protein allowance? Again, what I loved about your content, Isi, is, is, so I've seen, let's say, two different kinds of recommendations. Um, in my twenties, I used to also lift a lot of weights. I used to be a [00:31:00] bit and I followed the advice that I got, let's say from the weightlifting community about consuming one gram of protein per pound of, uh, per pound body weight.

I did used to eat a lot of meat back then. I also, you know, got all of those protein shakes and I could just about manage that on some days, but I think, so I think that is one thing I, I, I hear about. And the other, on the other end, there is also this USDA recommendation. on the minimum amount of protein, but your recommended amount, I think is different.

And I think perhaps falls in the middle of that spectrum. So would love for you to talk about your recommendation on protein consumption.

Yeah. Yeah, I typically put out the level of 7 grams per pound, so you are correct. It's sort of in the middle of the RDA number and from where a lot of people out of gym culture come from. Mm hmm. [00:32:00] And, you know, there's a lot of evidence that suggests that this is the place which is good for athletes who want to put on muscle mass, who are resistance training, doing power sports, all of that stuff.

And so I come out of the CrossFit community, so that's my slant. There's not a lot of evidence that people need one gram per pound. Now, that doesn't mean I don't think nobody should have one gram per pound. The more muscular you are, and when I think muscular, I think Very clearly muscular developed above and beyond kind of just anybody walking down the street, like advanced level strength.

Um, the more muscular you are, the more likely you're going to be at one gram per pound and the more lean you are, the more likely you're going to be at one gram per pound. And I mean, It trends together because the people who are really muscular and really lean need a lot of calories. Yes, they need a lot of protein, but they also need a lot of calories.

So by the time they get to 3500 plus calories a day, they are going to be at 1 gram per pound by way of the food [00:33:00] that exists. But I work with a lot of people who probably are fitter than the average American because they're in the CrossFit community or a related functional fitness community. So they're active.

They're regularly active. But they're, you know, they're not professional athletes, they're not making money by their athleticism and oftentimes they either want to lean out or they want to maintain their weight and 7 grams per pound is going to be plenty for them, plenty for them. And I think what people don't understand about the one gram per pound is I ultimately think that when you overshoot your protein unnecessarily, it's become another version of a restrictive diet.

And that's it. You are giving up those calories to make sure you get in this protein shake, the chicken, the whatever it is, when it could be spent on a glass of wine or dark chocolate. And some people will say, well, you know, you're saying that they should eat not quality food, and I'm saying, no, I'm saying they need to have flexibility in their diet to actually enjoy [00:34:00] it.

Exactly.

if one does not have some flexibility in one's diet, one is that much more likely to abandon it. right? Like you can start on this hyper strict diet and you might do it for a little while, but then if that totally drains your life of, I don't know, some kind of richness, you will get back and then you will probably get back on the other end of the spectrum, right?

And you start eating all kinds of, uh, crap food. One nuance I would love for you to help us draw is again, let's say the weightlifting and crossfitting community. I don't want to combine them, but let's say for the sake of this discussion, they are focused on, maybe building muscle, right? A lot of the people on this podcast audience are people who are looking for performance with their sports.

So they're not like, for example, I am somewhat conscious of my, my, my weight to strength ratio. Like I don't, I used to be like 20 pounds heavier when I [00:35:00] was, you know, lifting a lot and all of that stuff, but now I don't want to get heavier. So what is the recommendation for somebody? like me, I want strength.

I want longevity. I want to be able to keep, you know, pushing myself outside all the time, but I don't want to get bigger.

Yeah. And I think something that people forget with muscle mass is you don't just get more muscle mass from eating protein. You actually have to do the resistance training that would put the stress on the body to add that more muscle mass. So, if you do a lot of running and you eat a lot of protein, that doesn't necessarily mean that you're all of a sudden just going to have biceps popping everywhere.

You're going to need to do the activities that demand your biceps to grow in a way to be able to lift and do the reps that you're demanding of it. Same thing with leg muscles. And so, [00:36:00] this is where, you know, there is research on endurance athletes. There is, um, Some endurance athletes who are successful at a lower amount of protein, let's say a point five, five grams per pound.

But typically the range for endurance is kind of the 1. 2 to the 1. 6 grams per kilogram, which translates to the 0. 55 to the 0. 7 grams per pound. So i'm okay with the 0. 7 grams per pound even for Athletes like you what we probably would not be doing is crossfit training and or like really pushing the hypertrophy back squat routine with you.

You'd still want to back squat, but necessarily be like, Oh gosh, you have to make sure that we really maximize our five by three today. And then tomorrow you have to do weighted pull ups and weighted dips, you know,

Right, right. You're right. You know, diet is just one end of the spectrum. If one is not putting in that specific kind of weight training, one is not going to really change that. One is not going to. Yeah, just suddenly

grow massive. And that's [00:37:00] something that people, Like, I think, you know, maybe it's because I deal with nutrition, so I get the nutrition questions a lot. But it's like, people think they're just gonna put on all this muscle mass by eating enough protein, and you're like, no, you have to train really hard to put on that much muscle mass.

a hundred percent. They both kind of have to go together, uh, in this, in this, in this situation. One other nuanced question I wanted to, uh, pick your brain on, Isi, is Some of us, you know, we go on, let's say, you know, big outdoor adventures. So for example, last year I spent a couple of months climbing in Peru and Bolivia, where I did not have access to fruits and veggies all the time.

I did not either have access to a farmer's market or my own kitchen. And I'm curious if you have any advice. So two questions here. One is if you advise, if you have some advice on how to continue. maybe finding ways to keep eating

Mm.

just this kind of diet [00:38:00] when one is out of one's comfort zone. And the second question I have is actually a little bit different, which is if for, let's say, one season or a period of time in a year, one does not have access.

So let's say one is eating, you know, backpacker pantry meals for like a few weeks a year.

Mm

it make sense to kind of balance it out that when one is home and has access to all the, all the nutrition, one can kind of, you know, load up on that to compensate for those times up in the Alpine when those things are not available.

Mm. 

Okay. The loading up thing kind of works, um, for some nutrients better than others, depending on how well we store excess. But to be honest, I would just eat the way that I recommended when you're home. And then when you truly are in places where you do not have access, you bring the backpack or meals or whatever, You might, in fact, [00:39:00] bring a multivitamin, which I never recommend supplements, but there's always going to be these trade offs where it's like, okay, I have to bring food that's really calorically dense, that's not heavy.

So I'm going to bring these backpacker meals, which might not be very good quality. So to make up for some of the quality, maybe that's when I would bring the powdered greens or the supplement to help with the quality. The reason why we don't do that in day to day living is because powdered foods, they're not really filling.

Like we want to eat the fruits and vegetables. We want to have that very filling nature of them so that we don't overeat all the processed stuff. But when you're stuck in the middle of the woods and you're not tempted by pizza and cookies and all you have in your bag, now how do we get after the nutrients we need?

Well, we eat the calorically dense stuff that comes in the meals and then we might add some of the powdered supplements so that we do have some quality while we're away. 

you know, the multivitamin and other, uh, kinds of, I suppose, pills we can take, you know, all of us get, You know, [00:40:00] we've been flooded with all these, um, ads and marketing for, like, companies like, you know, Everyday Greens and what not. And, um, I am always a little skeptical because I, one thing I've started doing in the last couple of years is get blood work done regularly.

Like every six months I'm getting blood work done to see and some, like last year I found I was low in D3. So I started taking a D3 supplement and then recently I started, I added like a, uh, a curcumin supplement as well. So while I'm traveling, I continue taking those supplements. Thank you. But do I need to add these other supplements also? You know, I can see myself eating a protein bar for sure. But what about other supplements? Do I need any other like multivitamin supplements if I'm not really deficient in those things?

don't think so, and I don't recommend supplements, um, at all, really. I think supplements should be [00:41:00] used in a targeted way if there's a known, obvious reason to use it. And there's lots of reasons for that. First of all, we don't even have evidence that multivitamins are preventative of cancer and cardiovascular disease, which are two top killers.

So if we're all doing this multivitamin in the name of health, but it's not actually reducing our risk, well, what is it actually doing? But then the other thing with supplements is it's not a very regulated industry. So a lot of times what's in your supplement is not actually in there to the level that the label says.

And there also can be contamination. Of items that you don't think are in your supplement. That are in your supplement. So there's like heavy metal contamination that's been documented in prenatal vitamins. And so it's really odd to think that, wow, I might be taking something that I think is for my health, but yet it's contaminated with things that are not healthy for me.

And so again, there's just so many, it's like lack of evidence as well as lack of regulation around this stuff that I think we're much better off having a [00:42:00] diverse diet as we've discussed. to try to take supplements. And then if we have some known issue, like if you get tested for vitamin D and you are low, then maybe, yes, you should take vitamin D, but it shouldn't be this.

Everybody needs to take all these supplements. Because I also like to remind people like supplements weren't really popular before the 1970s. How did we get to 1970 as like a species? If we didn't need, if we needed all these supplements, right? Sure.

a debate together and compare and contrast your approaches. And if you don't mind answering or just talking about this for one second, which is, which is, I'm sure that things that people like Brian Johnson are doing, which are, which are totally correct, right?

When comes to enhancing longevity, but most of us cannot really take 50 different pills a day. So are there a couple of things we can still do beyond all the good things you have [00:43:00] talked about towards Longevity.

Mm hmm. Yeah, and I'm going to take a slight, a little segue first on Brian Johnson. We've actually talked about him on my podcast, um, The Consistency Project, and listen, I, I, Hey, he wants to do it, more power to him. I have nothing against what he wants to do. I will say what's a little bit unfortunate about what he's doing, because it's a single experiment and a single person, we won't actually know which of his individual interventions are what drove the result.

That if you want to reproduce his results, you actually have to do all of the things he's doing, not any single one. So the utility of it is a little bit, questionable. And, you know, we can't just say, Oh, it was the supplements. It has to be the whole shebang, you know, it has to be the whole stuff. But anyway, I think people overcomplicate it.

When we look at stuff for longevity, um, first of all, it's hard to do studies, but when we look at things for longevity, there are factors besides nutrition that are important. For [00:44:00] one, it's going to be things like purpose and community and stress and, um, even like faith. All of this stuff people find time and time again are factors besides what you eat. So I would just really encourage people to eat more whole foods than not, maintain a healthy weight, exercise regularly, Sleep enough.

Done. We're done. We're done on the nutrition front, really. You don't have to do all of this hyper optimization. And once you've done the stuff that I just mentioned, I really do encourage people to explore things like purpose and community. Because I think those are going to pay off more than tweaking two or three little supplements when you have those other factors in place that I mentioned.

Gosh, this is, yeah, this is going beyond everything that I hoped for because I agree that so much of, so much of a nutrition plan is about how it's so closely interlinked to our lives and the people that we surround ourselves with. [00:45:00] It goes on from people, people lead to inspiration, leads to mindset, leads to habits.

Any quick words of wisdom you see on on how does one take this much larger approach that goes beyond just what's in your cup or plate?

Yeah, I mean, I think, oh gosh, I guess I would just sort of say, um, Try to reality check yourself. I mean, that's what I sort of use as my tagline and reality check nutrition. But sometimes you can find yourself so in the weeds, you're like totally convinced you need, you know, CoQ10 as a supplement, but yet you've, you know, you've been up all night because you have a toddler and it's like, well, maybe what I need to do is actually figure out how to get seven hours of sleep, not take five more supplements.

Right? So, Sometimes I think it's like the more you get into the weeds of one thing, it's almost stepping back and thinking, okay, it's never one thing. Like what are the bigger drivers to this picture that I'm [00:46:00] totally overlooking at the expense of like this one idea.

No, I think, I think for sure. And I think it just goes right back with your tagline, you know, and the name of your excellent podcast, which is, I think it's called the consistency approach. project. And yeah, it's not about doing a 30 day whole food style, like what is it? The 30 day challenge diet. It's about like the 30 year plan.

Um, I know you have to run. Where can people find you easy to learn more about your education information? And I think you also provide some courses.

Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Just optimize me nutrition. com. It's the same handle then on Instagram and Facebook optimize me nutrition. And my podcast is the consistency project. Hmm. I

that I don't know about?

have a couple of ebooks, but maybe a book down the line. I'm actually working on an app which will be available in the new year that will [00:47:00] help with the programs that I offer and I think also help with accountability and long term engagement.

So we shall see.

Wonderful. Any future projects beyond, you know, beyond the tech projects that you'd like to share again on being able to, let's say, lead a more wholesome life and purpose?

Yeah, not, I mean, I think I like your idea of a book. I'm just not ready to tackle, not ready to bite that one off quite yet. So, um, so far it's just my continued courses and then the app and then we'll see where that takes me.

Wonderful. You see, it was so great to have you on the podcast today. Looking forward to this app when it comes out and we'll be sure to put, Sure. Uh, Yeah, links to your website and your great Instagram feed on the podcast show notes.

Awesome. Thank you so much for having me on. It was really fun.

[00:48:00] [00:49:00] [00:50:00]