Start Here: Nothing Changes Until You Move

Ageless Athlete Recording - David Green
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David: [00:00:00] one of the conclusions that, I came away with that has evolved is that movement is the key to health, happiness, a connection to humanity and adventurous movement. As in, out of your comfort zone, out of your backyard is where miracles happen and they happen. They're happening.

It's never gonna happen in your chair, in front of the television, on your computer, on your phone. So movement is the key to all of that. Unlocking any miracle has to be when you're in movement. And so I am curious. I am adventurous. I. Love puzzles and challenges, and I can also run, I have an engine. I am patient, therefore I can go longer.

But tho those things happen over a lifetime, decades [00:01:00] of doing a five, walking a mile, doing a 5K, doing an Ironman, doing an ultra, and then having those foundational blocks to, to get out of the backyard and go a little further out of a comfort zone and explore the world and, and that's when these magical things happen. 

Imagine a road stretching forward just before sunrise. The air still carries the cool of night. Coffee is in your hand, but it has gone lukewarm. Your breath finds a steady rhythm. Nothing ahead is urgent, but everything feels available. This is the terrain. David Green knows best long roads repeated steps.

Days shaped by forward motion rather than destinations. I came to this conversation already moved by David's book, lucky A True Story, the Power of This book. It lives in attention to people met along the [00:02:00] way, to places past, through slowly, to a stray dog. Who became a companion. It's a story shaped by noticing and by choosing to stay open long enough for meaning to merge.

Yes, I recommend David's book. You can find it in all the usual places. David has crossed countries and foot. He spent months running across Europe. He's followed ancient pilgrimage roots where progress is measured in days. Not splits. Over time, those miles become a way of thinking about aging, about time, about what's worth carrying forward.

In this conversation, we talk about urgency that doesn't feel frantic about simplifying life without shrinking it, about aging as an active relationship, one that asks for participation, not management, and stay with us until the very end. David shares a handful of reflections there on health, simplicity and intention that linger [00:03:00] long after the conversation ends, especially if you are somewhere in midlife and sensing that the horizon is still wide open.

I also want to take a moment to acknowledge a few people who have helped make this work Sustainable. Ageless Athlete exists because listeners choose to support long conversations, and stories that take time to unfold. Recently, that support came from Jets Al Adventurer, Deepak Conval Market.

Jeff Botto Lee, Laurie Bolin, Mandy Hostler, AMED Verma, and Bob Becker. Thank you for backing the support and for valuing this kind of work if this episode stayed with you. Or if these conversations have added something to your own thinking over time, you can support the show through Buy Me Coffee. the link is in the show notes.

It helps keep the podcast independent and ongoing.

Kush: David, I always like to [00:04:00] start with this question, which is, where are you right now and what did you have for breakfast this morning? 

David: I am in Jacksonville, Florida, and I had for breakfast, what I have just about every morning for the past, I don't know, 20 years, which was , plain Greek yogurt with honey, granola, raspberries and blueberries, and a cup of coffee.

Kush: Your breakfast is so similar to mine. 

that's beautiful. David, for those of us who don't know more about you, how do you describe yourself? These days? 

David: Well, you know, I'm a, I'm an endurance athlete, who is retired from being an entrepreneur, and I kind of say I'm retired because I do, help folks.

I serve on some boards and I'm involved, in organizations that interest me. but, uh, these days I'm, I'm looking for adventure. I'm looking to play, looking to stay young.

Kush: [00:05:00] And looks like you're doing all of that with alum. great to have you on the show. And, uh, I believe you just finished this epic 99 day run across Europe, nearly 3000 miles. Nearly 

David: 3000. It was about 2009. 2,900 miles. 

Kush: Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Nearly 2000.

Just a bit short. And then you covered 12 countries. 

David: Correct. 

Kush: yeah. I actually saw your, uh, your Instagram post on it, and you described unforgettable meals and breathtaking landscapes and incredible people along the way. So maybe we can start right there. So, let's see. So how long has it been since you've finished that 

run. 

David: Yeah. Yeah. Uh, I, I finished the event in, uh, in [00:06:00] Turkey in mid August, August 16th, 17th. Okay. And I spent some time, in Istanbul and then drove back to where I started in Portugal on Porto, because of the logistics that were required in this case, which was renting a long-term car in Portugal to support me going across.

There was no one-way drop off. We had to return the car or buy the car, 

Kush: so, 

David: oh, we made our way back home and I stayed a little bit in Portugal and I, I came back to United States in September. 

Kush: Got it. Okay. So a couple of months have passed. 

David: Yeah. 

Kush: And, when you close your eyes and think back to that run.

Maybe you can talk about what images come to your mind. What's the, the first moment that you see that appears? 



David: these kind of events, multi-day, [00:07:00] full immersion, where you're focused, fully, spiritually, emotionally, physically on one mission is like the greatest slow motion movie of all time.

and it takes, it's, it's bigger than, it's the collage. It's the, it's the whole, collection of experiences that blends into something bigger than just one. But I, I. I do think of, there are three images that I keep coming back to that, happened at various times that reflected different times of the event, different challenges, different weather, that epitomized the entire adventure.

And I, I would start with the beginning. I had started to develop a, a stress fracture in my left tibia, probably a grade one, grade two. The doctor told me, and I knew I needed to start out very slow. You have to build into these things. You can't, you can't come in super fit. You gotta come in under perfect conditioning and really [00:08:00] build into it and being, You know, I'm, I'm not breaking any PRS for myself anymore. So you really, you really have to make sure that you don't come in too hot. And of course, I got ahead of my, my schedule and I started to de develop this stress fracture and it, it, uh, it required me to just walk and listen to friends, tell me this, it's over and, and kind of change, my day-to-day perception of falling behind.

And this is not gonna work out, you know, the negativity. But I did. And a good friend of mine, uh, Ted joined me when I crossed the Pyrenees, which was about six, 700 miles in. And it was just starting to turn for me where I was able to walk almost pain-free and I could start to jog a little bit. And it was a super hot day.

And we were in, PPAU Pal France in that region there. And we had run outta water midday. And he and I were saying, man, we're, we're, this is trouble. You know, we're, we're deep in the French countryside [00:09:00] and there's a village. And I walk into the village and there's a man at a gate, at a little country house.

And I say, uh, the lowest civil play water, please. And the man says, in broken English, you're American, right? I said, uh, yeah, yeah. what gave it away? He said, well, well, you know, I see people come by sometimes, and, uh, Ted, I said, Ted, Ted, I think we have somebody here who can give us some water. And, uh, turned out this gentleman's name was Manke.

, he was French and he and his girlfriend Teva were just sitting down for lunch in a garden area with a, just an overhang, a nice little balcony outdoors. And they had a beautiful little table set up. And he said, are you hungry? I said, no, no, no. We just need water manke. It's, it's okay.

He said, no, no, no, no, no, no. And he and Teva walked in and they brought two place settings and sat down and they said, join us. Join us for lunch. Okay. Okay. they bring out a platter of 36 fresh oysters, fresh cut lemons, fresh baguette, [00:10:00] vinegarette for the oysters, a bottle of white burgundy.

And we joined them for lunch. And it turned out that, uh, Menke was a French mercenary who was a helicopter pilot who had flown in Iran, and he'd flown into, um, what was the other one? I mean, he, he had flown into several countries that were secret operations, crashed a couple of times, just a fascinating story.

And two hours later after their onion pie, a bottle of Bordeaux, a red bordeaux, Ted and I left. And I said, you know, Ted, I think things are looking up. and that, you know, that's kind of when you need something to pick you up when you need water, maybe you get oysters and a white burgundy. But that memory of that sunny afternoon is something I will never forget.

The kindness of strangers and the, the interesting people that live all around us that you would just never, ever know of. that was kind of early. That was early on, probably two weeks in, as I was in Greece. another. Big memory for me was as I was [00:11:00] headed towards Alexandropolis, along the Thracian Sea, I was alone and I was on a trail.

It was a hot day, and I, I just meandered into these hillside that became just a couple rolling mountains along the sea. And, what happened then was the most scenic, most profound historical part of the entire trip because I came upon a Roman amphitheater in the wilderness. I was just alone, nobody from miles and miles and miles.

And I, I was just at this Roman amphitheater on the, on the sea, I was alone. And so I ran through it and then up into another mountain pass There was a goat herder and you could hear the bells of the goat goats just kind of moving through the scrub and the white rock, uh, with the blue sea below.

And he looked at me, not a word of eng, it just didn't even say hi. Just looked at me and, two human beings crossing. [00:12:00] It was just, it was kind of surreal. and then I came across, MROs a little science at Isro, which, uh, was from Homer Isma, which was Homer's MROs from the Odyssey. And then a little city, then a little city thing said, which was also from the Odyssey.

And then I came across the Ulysses Stream and I was running, walking through. History, thousands of years alone. And, um, it was really one of the most memorable days for me. It was just very quiet and just, uh, the, the wonder, the wonderment of just stepping and falling into these places that nobody knows about.

I di I, I certainly didn't know about it. I, I, I mapped out the whole course. It just happened. So that was nature and history hit me that day and on that was a big one. And the last one was, probably the most profound because it was, so scary. And, [00:13:00] also at the end turned out okay, it was my second to last day and I was running, Alone for the last six days of running through Turkey, I had to do it alone because, the person supporting me couldn't drive. So she went to Istanbul and I said, I'm gonna take my hydration pack. I'm gonna pack a toothbrush, and I'm just gonna run for six days. You just make sure I have a place to stay.

And I, you know, she knew I needed to do 60 kilometers a day, and we just, she figured out, we figured out where the towns were and where I could find a room and just,and, sleep for the night. Second to last night, second to last day, I am on E 84, which is,an east west corridor from Greece to Istanbul.

And I, it's probably six in the morning and I'm on this highway, and right up the highway is a little incline in a cafe that I dip into to get a cup of coffee, Turkish coffee, and a piece of bread from a husband and wife who. The owners of the cafe. And I walked in, not a word of English, I didn't speak any, Turkish.[00:14:00] 

Of course I could say hello, thank you. But, I ordered it. I sat down as they were bringing me the Turkish coffee, the delivery man, uh, who was ordering the day's bread pulls up in a van right out in front. Sun is rising. There's traffic 'cause it's a four lane major road. And he jumps out, takes the bread, and then he starts to yell.

And as he's yelling,I noticed he, he's running back around the van and the van's parking brake was not on. And so the van was starting to roll back into the highway with his bread. He Oh wow. Is screaming. He's yelling out. It's quiet. There's nobody around. Uh, I jump up and I run to the back of the van.

He's on the left side in the back. I'm on the right side. And we are trying to stop a van from going down into the highway within how, you know, an instant, you know, you know, you're not gonna stop this van. It's moving. And I felt before anything else, he had slipped and the [00:15:00] van had run over him. And I looked down and in slow motion, the van has got his foot, it's now on his chest.

I started yelling, to the owner of the, the cafe. And he looked at me and saw me, and I was waving, banging, and I'm, there's nothing I can do as this van is rolling over this man. And the guy came out and he jumped in the other side. He started the car because the keys were in it. Ran back over the man because he was, he was trapped underneath and left him now in the middle of this highway.

and parked the delivery van and ran back out. I'm holding, I'm standing over this man. I'm not holding him. And other people now are starting, the Turkish people are starting to come around. Cars are coming. I stand there, stop the traffic. The wife calls the ambulance that came in about 20 minutes and I was, numb trauma.

It was, I thought he was, gonna die because he was just completely bleeding. He [00:16:00] was kind of in an awkward position. And I told everybody, don't touch him. Don't move him. Just stop. Turkish men are all standing there smoking. There's a half a dozen men chain smoking. I couldn't tell him. Stop smoking.

The guy's the guy, but the, you know, the ambulance finally came Kush. They, we helped him up, put him in. And then I'm standing there on this highway alone and these Turkish men, say, thank you, thank you from our hearts for being here. And I, I left, I started running. I was crying. I was, I, I thought I just saw somebody die.

There's no way he's going to recover from this. And I ran that day, I slept again on the road, uh, or in a town. Next day I made it to Istanbul. I checked into a hotel and the woman who was at the desk spoke Turkish. And I said, listen, by, I, I know this is a long shot, but in the, in this town that I ran through called Salted Coy, I was with a man who got run over by his own van.

and we got it off of him quickly, the ambulance came to pick him up and I just wanna know what [00:17:00] happened. And the next morning she told me the news had covered it. And he had checked out the hospital and he was driving his van. The next day. 

Kush: Oh, 

David: and I, nice. I just, I, and I spoke to, um, my coach Lisa.

I said, Lisa, I, you know, and my friends, my wife. But Lisa said to me, I said, I can't believe I was at this moment. I mean, I just felt so horrible. It was so horrible. She said, yeah, but it was the right time for you to be there because maybe you saved the guy's life. Maybe you got the attention and got the van off of him, and you were a piece of that story.

And I said, you know what? that's a beautiful positive spin. I'll, I'll take it. But wow. I was very happy. So those are kind of the three things that I, I keep replaying the movie to see what stands out, but it was the, you know, when you need it most, the food, the companionship is there, history and the beautiful nature that just, uh, we live in.

And then lastly, just the human story. The, the tragedy that can sometimes be, you know, a wonderful miracle. 

Kush: Wow. [00:18:00] David. Three very different but equally evocative vignettes from your big run. Yes. From let's say the bountiful kindness of strangers to stumbling unexpectedly into

Into moments from history that. One doesn't realize are all around oneself when one is passing through a place. So steeped as in coastal Greece. And then finally, this last one from the end of your run, which pulls together in some ways, all of those things. I mean, I'm picturing bread, I'm picturing, Turkish cafes and Turkish people.

And then this, accident you witnessed and you were part of which so fortunately was not fatal. I mean, so glad that you were able to catch up on the news and [00:19:00] the end of your, historic run was not marred By a tragedy. You know what's interesting, David, is that when I speak with somebody who's just finished something so physically challenging and daunting, and ask them about those moments, I would typically expect to hear about

points of overcoming sheer physical limits. Which you, I'm sure there were many and there were probably many every, there were many, like every day. Not just, a few, but there were so many of them. I am convinced, however you chose to drop on these other stories, which I feel in some ways makes them even more, makes you run even more special because.

The imagery and the emotion that they bring with them. I think it goes beyond running. It goes beyond endurance sports, and it almost feels [00:20:00] like there is this silent call to action to those of us who can aspire to is to go and travel and immerse ourselves in the beauty of our planet, of our people, of our lands, and allow spontaneity, allow magic to unfold.

David, let me ask you this. Would you consider yourself a traveler and adventurer first before you would call yourself a runner, or should it be the other way around?



David: let me just say first that one of the conclusions that, I came away with that has evolved is that movement is the key to health, happiness, a connection to humanity and adventurous movement. As in, out of your comfort zone, out of your [00:21:00] backyard is where miracles happen and they happen. They're happening.

It's never gonna happen in your chair, in front of the television, on your computer, on your phone. So movement is the key to all of that. Unlocking any miracle has to be when you're in movement. And so I am curious. I am adventurous. I. Love puzzles and challenges, and I can also run, I have an engine. I am patient, therefore I can go longer.

But tho those things happen over a lifetime, decades of doing a five, walking a mile, doing a 5K, doing an Ironman, doing an ultra, and then having those foundational blocks to, to get out of the backyard and go a little further out of a comfort zone and explore the world and, and that's when these magical things happen.

Kush: David, the other thing I also sense is that just, [00:22:00] placing oneself into the outside world doesn't automatically manifest these moments of magic. I think there is an element of discomfort of like movement that is. by intent. You know, you were not. 

You know, you were not taking a tourist bus through Europe, You were running across Europe. And I wonder if yeah. That part where you were immersed in your body embracing discomfort and achieving, aspiring to achieve something so difficult. I wonder if that made these moments just that much more special. 

David: Yeah, a hundred percent. it, especially as you get older, you know, we have all these preconceived notions.

We, we know everything we, but the second you, the closer you become to primal just an animal, Stripped down to, the essentials where I don't like tomatoes, but I'll eat a tomato off the floor. I [00:23:00] do like tomatoes, but the, you know, I don't like those people, but now I'm getting water from those people.

Well, you name the, the bias that we have, the thing we don't like when you are digging so deep, and so tired, everything is possible again. and, and things happen, um, that you would never expect when you need them the most. And yeah, those are the things you remember because you've, you completely shifted your reality.

You've reset your perspective and, uh, your energy. And that's why people come back for these ultras because they go back to life and they say, oh, I got a full reset. I have a fresh perspective, and I have an incredible memory of an accomplishment and experience something that happened out there. So, yeah, totally agree with you.

It it, the deeper you go, the more, uh, magic can happen, the more the reward.

Kush: David, I can't wait to get more into the details of this run across Europe. And before that, you have been painting fails [00:24:00] across entire continents outside as well. But I have to start with a preface question though. When I look at your journey, you have been a successful entrepreneur.

You have achieved many things over the years.

Why running, why take up. This odyssey that you have been on? 



David: my life is a river. it is flowing. I was never a runner. When I was in high school, college, I was a wrestler and I went to university to wrestle. But after my third knee, third knee surgery, the doctor told me, son, you'll never run again.

It's just not a smart thing for you. And so I started doing little small triathlons and that got me confident again. And then I started doing marathons, and then I started doing triathlons. And in 2009 [00:25:00] I was doing Ironman, Florida. And I came around the, the corner on the bike that, that about 25 miles in.

And I took the turn too hard and I just went down, hurt my should towards the ligaments of my shoulder. I was a mess. I did finish the race and I actually set a pr, but I did not qualify for Hawaii, which was something I always wanted to do. Uh, I did a 9 56 something that year, and I missed by a few minutes, and it was like my life story with Ironman just always competing for that iron, the Kona slot.

And, but after that race, I couldn't let, I couldn't lift my arm and I didn't want to go to a doctor, so I couldn't swim. I couldn't bike, so I just, I said, why don't I just start running an ultra? I signed up for the Rocky Raccoon 100, and I, I never really loved running that much in my life. I'm not a great runner.

But what happened was, I found a community in ultra running that was not type A, not super, not competing with one another, but a community that, uh, that is sharing. A journey, an [00:26:00] experience at every event. And I loved that. they were just people that didn't have the, you know, the, the fastest bike, the best outfit, sharkskin, whatever it was just people running go into a start line with, with rags on their bodies and a in a pair of running shoes.

And I, I loved it. And then I, I just got, I fell in love with the na, just being outta nature, the quiet solitude of it, the relationships that you can forge on the trail. it, it grew on me, let's put it that way. And then, at some point, and this was really a foundational thing in my life, you know, I worked on Wall Street.

I've been, after that, I've, I've started many companies. Many have failed. And it's, it's a gut wrenching, heartbreaking process to go through a failure with business where you, you let down your family, your friends, your employees, and I've had successes. and in sport, I've also had success. You know, I wouldn't, I'm not a, a lead athlete, but, you know, I'm a, I'm an okay athlete, but at some point, you know, I, it dawned on me that I, I can't keep breaking my own [00:27:00] record for the five mile run that I do around the block every day.

And I, I can't go faster than my fastest Iron man when I'm 60 now. And I was doing them when I was 30. And so I, I purposefully shifted, from, the quantitative side of sport and exercise and try to solve for sustainability because I wanna do this forever if I can. And when I, when I thought about how do I make this sustainable and then add into that running, it became a whole different world to me where I could.

Go out and run easy. And if I'm tired, I sit, I pull into a Starbucks, have a coffee, and uh, and run again. And it's good because I meet people. I'm, I'm not gassed. I can't, you know, can't talk 'cause I'm too tired. and I was having fun exploring the world. So that kind of opened up this new world that I could do, a 200 mile run and then 300, I can do it, I can do it.

I can go slow, I can go easy, I can take my time. I can run 50 [00:28:00] miles a day. I can run 40 miles a day, whatever I feel like doing. And so the running, the sustainable, running, the adventuring of it all, is where I ended up and I'm still living it and trying to explore where, where that can take me. I don't know.

Kush: I am maybe sensing some thread between your journey as an entrepreneur where you started companies. And you took some risks and now you are again doing audacious things, which involve maybe similar elements of, vision planning, risk, execution. And yeah. Help me out is there really something that connects these two worlds, which from the outside seems so disparate, but maybe to you they're not.

David: you're, you're spot on. there, there's definitely a common thread that's brought me to this moment. but it's not exclusive to that [00:29:00] set of skills that I've developed, or lived in my life experiences that bring me here. It, it could be,any route that brings somebody, people who enjoy puzzles or challenges.

You know, that's what my cool set my river has brought me to. And it's perfectly suited for adventuring long events. and quite frankly, it's probably, necessary for my, psyche because, you know, I've always had a problem with, A DD probably sitting through meetings. If I didn't work out, if I didn't do these things, God knows what I would be doing, with all that excess energy.

maybe not good things. It's a counterbalance from, it's a counterbalance for my life at least. You know, if, if I can enjoy a glass of wine now I don't, you know, I'm gonna run it off. If I wanna have a a great meal, I'm gonna run it off. It's all good. So it's a good balance, but it is, it is the big vision of these runs.

it, it's a great point. It's, it's kind of how I function with my, with being an entrepreneur. You have a big idea. You have to execute against it. And in some ways it's a perfect, I don't [00:30:00] wanna say retirement objective because, you know, with, with a business. You're giving birth to something that, that couldn't live in a perpetuity, and it's a little out of you.

It's like giving birth. It's out of your control in many aspects, because if, if it's successful, you're not gonna have one employee, 10 employees. You could have a thousand employees. And that's a whole different business. That's a whole different, world. These are projects that have a finite life.

And so you can see the whole life story of the project in a, you know, in a, in a span of time that is plannable, especially where you have a wife and kids and family, they say, wait a second here. you can't go out and run around the world for the next three years. Or, so it, it actually is a, a good end game for an entrepreneur, I think.

Kush: Certainly. Well, that is. One distinction that you call out, which is in some ways, yeah, being an entrepreneur is, is harder and scarier because you set something in motion and yes, you might have, you might have some grand ambition behind it, but there are so many things [00:31:00] that are outside your control and even in a run that you just finished.

Yes, there are again, many externalities, but one still has a concrete plan and one still has this beginning and an end. Of course, you know, once you finish something then you know that's not the end of your running career. I, that probably is the launch point for like something even, even bigger. Yeah.

It's 

David: another building block, 

Kush: another building block. Something grander. David, I, I think myself and maybe, maybe our listeners, we are still trying to wrap our heads around. This latest run of yours, the one that we were just talking about through Europe. So yeah, can you just describe to us what was this run about?

What was maybe even the genesis for what you were aspiring to do, 

David: you'll have to turn a clock back a little bit then, because each of these foundational stones adventures depended on the one [00:32:00] that happened before it, you know, it didn't just happen one day I woke up and said, I'm gonna run across Europe.

it really started with the Brazil 1 35 for me. 

Kush: And sorry, I I, I'm so glad that you made that point that it just didn't happen with you waking up one day and transitioning from like, doing Ironman. 

David: Yeah. 

Kush: Or like triathlon suddenly to Right. To doing something this wild. Because I think sometimes people, people look at, you know, look at the headline and then they think that, this person is just cut off a different cloth.

Just somebody extraordinary and they can just do this. But I think what you're telling us that is that it didn't just happen overnight. They was this whole incremental process to bring you to this point. 

David: Precisely. and it starts with, just surviving. My first ultra run, and it, it was not pretty, it was horrible.

It was such a horrible experience because it was a, you know, you go out, you go out like you think you can run, and then all of a sudden, you know, 60 [00:33:00] miles later, it's, the wheels fall off and you have to death march for 40 miles to finish. And so each of these progressions led me to the Brazil 1 35 back in 2012.

And that is a, a race put on by Mario Lacerda on the, on this trail called Camino Da. And it is modeled after the Camino de Santiago, the Brazil 1 35 takes place on 135 miles of that trail. The trail network is much larger and I fell in love with being on the trail, going through these tiny communities, simple people, gracious people.

generous, inviting you in to use their fci, whatever you needed. And that's where the idea that, you know, these events can be more than just point A to point B, even though they're 135 miles apart or a hundred miles apart or 50 miles apart. and that event opened my, my mind to doing, bigger things than 135 miles.

And then subsequently to doing that event, I went back there and I ran in [00:34:00] 2018, the full Camino trail, which was about 500 miles. I started in a, a village called bma, and I ran, with Amy Costa, a friend to the start of the Brazil 1 35. And then we checked in, I ran the Brazil 1 35, and then we ran all the way to the basilica at the finish to, to do the entire Camino da.

And that was very tough. I, I. Just filed for the FKT for that because it's, uh, I don't think anybody's done it, but, it was an exceptional experience because on the run, a Stray Mountain dog followed me for about 150 miles, and that dog made choices. he, David, 

Kush: sorry. 

David: Yeah, 

Kush: sorry to, but in, but, uh, quick question.

I don't, I don't miss this, but you were doing this Camino de Fe this run that, this big run that happens in Brazil, and you were still [00:35:00] new to the sport, but you filed for an FKT for this run. 

David: Well, just now. I did, and it, it's interesting because I was awarded an FKT for the first person to run across Europe, and when I did that.

I said, well, I've also done a lot of other runs and you can file them. So I said, oh, okay. Well, in 2018 I ran from Rema to Apda, which is 500 and some miles, and I have all the GPS files. So he said, yeah, file it. So the course, if you go to FKT and, and type in Camino da, which is the Brazil version of the Compostela, it's there.

the, the four routes that I've run have been approved and I've subsequently submitted the actual GPX files to get the fts. and you know, I hope people go out and run it certainly a lot faster than I did, but they're gonna be recognizable roots. 

Kush: Hang on. So you were, maybe when you did the run in Brazil, you were perhaps still new to ultra running.[00:36:00] 

You were, were you doing this run? are there other people also who do this? Sounds like this is an established run and there are many people who do this. So was this that, like, did you just suddenly you, you have this like latent talent for big runs and then you start out in this new endeavor and then you suddenly are coming up with the fastest known times.

Sounds incredible. 

David: In, in 2012, I did the Brazil ma. The Brazil 1 35. I went back a few times and did that same race like four times. Ah. Then in 2018, it might've been my fifth or sixth time doing the race, I said, let's change it a little. I feel I know the course now really well, but there's. Around it. The Camino, which is a pilgrim's trail, it's where people walk and they do mountain biking and go through the little villages.

and as a pilgrim you have a passport and you get it stamped at a church. And then when you get to the end where the basilica [00:37:00] is in a pida, you get a certificate that says you're an official pilgrim. So these are well established roots that pilgrims walk on and mountain bikers will sometimes do. I thought, let's just run the darn thing.

not because I'm, I'm religious, but because it's a perfectly established trail network. And so in 2018, that was my big vision to change the Brazil 1 35 into a Camino run, to the Brazil 1 35, doing the race and then finishing the Camino and becoming an official pilgrim. Which was a big project for me.

And on that I brought a friend, Amy Costa, who's done, we've done five of them since then, but that first one in 2018 was when, and I've had other dogs follow me, but this dog, um, in 2018 followed me for 150 miles and I brought him home with me to the United States after the event. That was bigger than an event, first time in my life.

take an event, but make it multi-day. [00:38:00] Have to dig deep. The logistics, the planning are, are extremely difficult. You've gotta really, and uh, the execution is, is always written. You know, you just don't know what's gonna happen and you just have to be ready for everything and anything to happen.

I first learned about the Brazil 1 35 from a local friend Chris Roman, who had also. Run a section of the Camino. And so I, I can't take all the credit for that because, you know, I, I talked to him and I said, my God, that's a good day to do this three or four day thing.

And then of course, when I did it, I did it for the whole thing. But he kind of gave me that, that spark. And on the FKT side, you know, I, I, playfully call it, uh, the FKT for me is the fattest known time, and somebody will come along and get the fastest known time. for, for me, I was able to forge a new route that would be recognizable.

I don't know. so when I met Lucky, it was, one of the most, magical things in my life. [00:39:00] You know, we talk about like an event and there were a couple of memories from it, but in my lifetime, I have never been this touched by some creature, some spirit. and the reason was, I learned after I had come back to the United States that a gentleman named Van Deve, who's a multiple veteran finisher of the Brazil 1 35, he was running that year.

And he came into this village of Andras. Andras sits at the, in the Montera Mountains, and there's stray dogs running all around. And I ran into Vanderbilt, who told me, I met a dog, a stray dog at a gas station who followed me out of Adas, up a 10 mile tough climb into STOs Lima, uh, in the middle of the night.

And this dog followed us. He was a very happy dog. he wanted food. He followed us. He was emaciated. at [00:40:00] Donna, Natalis. Pasta house at the top of the mountain in sema. it's here in the beautiful starry sky at the top of the mountain spine, and there's nothing around. And she opens her little posada for the runners and serves just pasta and coffee, that's it.

And water and, and a, and a sweet for dessert. But that's it. And so Van Deve told me he, he wa he walked into Ali and this dog followed him. And then he left and he ran along the spine for another 10 miles. And the dog followed him into this little village, mountain village called Baja. And there's a church and a bar and a couple of little huts in, in this mountaintop village.

And he said the dogs stopped and wanted to stay with these other street dogs or, stray dogs up there. He wouldn't go with him. And so Van Devet left and he ran the rest of the run That year I was running with my friend Amy [00:41:00] Costa, and my friend Bob Becker was with me and Will Litwin was with me.

His friend, the two of them wanted to run the Brazil race. And I said, come with me. I have a crew. I'll manage all the logistics. We'll do this as, uh, as a team. We'll have some fun doing it. We're not gonna break a record, but we'll finish. So we are running about, 25 miles ahead of Baja. We come into Eno and um, it's probably three or four in the morning.

And I say, let's take a break here. Let's take a three hour nap, take showers, want everybody up, 8:00 AM and we're gonna continue on. But that little reset will help us. When I got up, I walked out my door. That dog was sitting there and he was looking at me. Somehow he had gone 25 miles through the night from Baja on this trail.

And this trail can go lots of different ways. It crosses, roads, it goes into other villages, comes back out. He was in [00:42:00] front of my Posada and that's where I met him. And he followed me and Bob and Amy and Will, through the day into, a place called Bor de damato, which was about 50 miles down the line.

And, um, I had horrible blisters. Now I had been running for eight or nine days. It was, it's very, moist. Humid, a lot of rain. So I had really bad feet. I wasn't sure I could continue. And I got into an ambulance. Of the Matza Ma said, just wait there. I'll have the ambulance meet you. They can take a look at your feet.

And I told Amy and Bob, and Will you guys have to march on? Um, I don't know if I can continue. My feet are not good. but if I can, I will. And I said goodbye to them. It was a teary goodbye for Amy who didn't wanna leave me. But, I told him, you have to go. You have to finish this thing. And I stayed in the ambulance and about a couple of hours I had a coffee at the, at this little cafe and the dog was gone.

sun starts to set and I'm back out on the trail [00:43:00] and my feet are okay. I'm starting to feel better. And right around 11:00 PM maybe 5, 5, 6 hours later, I sit down at the top of a mountain. It was a full moon, and out of nowhere, this dog reappeared. Somehow he had followed me out of. I don't even know 'cause she just reappeared.

Kush: Wow. And, 

David: and then he followed me for the rest of, you know, he was at my side and I walked into a church and I asked the father this, what do I do with this dog? I just, I felt bad, you know? What do you do? just you, you feel this connection, but you're a, you a third world country 

Kush: so the stray, you know, the stray somehow changed upon your posse. 

David: Mm-hmm. 

Kush: So he must have seen, you must have also seen Bob and Amy and, and you know, your crew. But why do you think he picked you to follow? Because those others had. am I reading this correctly? Like, 

David: yeah. Yeah. 

Kush: He must have seen all of you.

And then these [00:44:00] others, they continued running and here you were, uh, not feeling well, and you took a longer break, and then the dog somehow noticed that you were not in that group and somehow waited somewhere for you and then caught up with you when you took the thrill again. 

David: Yeah. Yeah. And, and as I asked the father, I said,the guy he told, he said, that is an angel who has chosen you, and he will never let you go.

Because I was thinking, I need to find him a home, or who do I give him to? Or what do I do? Why, you know, and that answer was all I needed. I called my wife. Who, uh, was back home. she is Brazilian, my wife. And, which is one of the reasons I did the race. 'cause I wanted, I love Brazil. And I called her and I said, Monica, this dog is following me.

I checked out for hours and he came back to me. And without hesitation, she said, well, you're bringing him home. And that in my [00:45:00] mind, clicked that was what I need to do. between the father and my wife. There was no way I would, I did bring him home. But the miraculous part about that entire episode was the realization that he had made so many choices.

you know, a lot of times we think animals, you know, we, we choose them. We, we put the food, we do everything. We make all the choices. But that was all of his choices to get. To the not to get to me and to get to the United States and that, that was the miraculous thing about it. 

Kush: David. Yes. This just gives me goosebumps.

And you know, when people say that they got adopted by their pup when they visited something, let's say more mundane, like, like an animal shelter, people like to say that the dog chose them. And I think totally. I think that is not just, that is not just irreverence or modesty. I think there is something to that.

On a more personal note, I am also a dog dad. I have this pop that came to me via [00:46:00] also some unusual extreme circumstances. He was rescued from the meat trade in China and, uh, came to me as a foster, and then he was traumatized. and it seemed that he had also chosen me because he, he wouldn't, he would not get along with anybody else except me.

And I've spent the last year traveling in a van seeking, mystery and adventure through North America. And, you know, he's also changed me. He's taught me, patients taught me empathy. But anyway, I, I, I connect with what you're saying. That, when, that lucky did choose you and connected with you and found a way on the trail into your heart, into your home, by the way, uh, how did the dog get to be named?

Lucky? Is there a story there? 

David: Yeah. so when we were finishing the race. The race part of the Brazil 1 35 in the middle of my Camino [00:47:00] run. Bob and Will had gone ahead and I had caught up to Amy, and as Amy and I were coming into the finish line,I always called Dogs Rover, Fido. 'cause there's hundreds of dogs.

Every year I go back, there's, oh, a dog's following us here for a couple miles. Let's call him Fido. Let's call him Rover. You know, let's whatever. Um, but as we came in and Monica said, bring him home, I said, I gotta na, give him a name. And I, I feel like I am the luckiest man on this planet to have met him.

And Amy said, yeah, and, and we're on the Camino. And I said, there we are Lucky Camino, that's the name and the choices that dog made Van Deve. And this was a few years later because in 20, 22 years after I brought him home. I brought him back to run the Camino with me. And that included another branch of the Camino.

And when I went back with him, the Brazilian press covered the event. Mayors at the towns would meet us because of this [00:48:00] Brazilian stray dog that went to the first world. And we even got like a town key, a village key. And Globo the big, news agency in Brazil would have film crews with the dog.

He was super special, a supernatural, but he just made decision. He made choice. He followed Vanderbilt out of the town, and then he decided not to follow him. And then he decided to, to meander for 20 some miles through the night to another town and then choose me for some reason. they make choices.

They are? 

Kush: Mm-hmm. 

David: They are. Sentient beings. And sometimes these miracles happen and it's, it's a soulmate. I mean, I, I can't think of it as any other way. We were just meant to meet and meant to fall in love. 

Kush: Well, at the minimum he, I guess he found a kindred spirit who, for There 

David: you go. 

Kush: Yeah. whatever strange reason, liked to run

just insane distances across vast landscapes. 

David: Yeah. But he, he liked to adventure. He also liked to adventure. He to adventure. [00:49:00] He was, he was roaming. He, you know, just two paths collided and the, the love struck, 

Kush: Yeah. Yeah. So you ended up bringing Lucky back to the US Post run? 

David: I did. I brought him back and, um, uh, we.

Inseparable. We ran everywhere together. Everybody in in Jacksonville knew us because he was, uh, when I brought him back, he was 25 pounds, but when he was healthy, he was about 70 pounds. And he, 

Kush: oh, wow. 

David: He, yeah, he was pretty, pretty sick. And, um, he would run, he never had a leash. Uh, he, he would just be at my side, you know, and I'd be running on a one a on highway where, wherever, I mean, he would just be on my side, just right there on my left hand side.

and I decided then, because for the two years that we ran together, I had continued to do events. But in 2020, right before COVID, I, I. Decided, you know, why don't I take him back? why don't I, he and I do a big run together, instead of [00:50:00] just an event now. 'cause he had run 50 ks, 50 mile runs with me and I, that's the year in 2020, I decided to run a Camino with him.

The, and it was probably a 400 mile run. Uh, so I, I took him back in 2020. And then when I came back to the United States, COVID hit. And so we were on lockdown for a while. I remember in the beginning, I decided to run, you know, 19 marathons for COVID. 19 over just every other day. I ran a marathon with him.

And so we got a lot of volume in. And then in May of 2020, there was the end of the first wave. I decided to run from Jacksonville Beach, my home to Key West, which was about five, 600 miles. And he and I ran down the coast to a one a. It was beautiful. So amazing to be together just in the wild, you know? Of course we were all in lockdown, so it was great to be outside.

And then that was, well, I've run 600 miles with Lucky. I don't know how long I'm gonna have together with [00:51:00] him, you know, he's a dog. I'm, I'm getting older and that's where I decided I'm gonna run across the United States because he can do that with me. And it's only five times 600, which ultimately got me into running across the United States from, that building block 

Kush: again.

Wow. I mean, again, so incredible. David, just, uh, sticking with Lucky Story because there's something 

David: mm-hmm. 

Kush: Uniquely powerful about this or. About this bond that you found with another creature and of the adventures that perhaps both of you enabled for each other. You ended up writing this book, lucky, A True Story, and I was reading about the book and on your website you describe the book as Lucky, true Story of Slum [00:52:00] Dog Millionaire Meets Forest Gump.

And that line stuck with me because those are two of my favorite movies. and that's quite the combination. 

David: And 

Kush: I would love to hear what you meant by that. 



David: he is a rags, riches story, uh, an improbable success story from a third world country. And, he did it with grit and determination and savviness and, he was ambitious.

for me, Forrest Gump, I have two boys and they, they joke about me and call me Dad, you're just a Forrest Gump. You remind us of Forrest Gump. So it had to be those two things. 

Kush: Yeah. I mean now it all makes sense. 

it's true. Yeah. 

Very fitting. So, so David, what do you hope people take away from this book? 



David: I'd go back to getting out, moving, being in nature, and especially if you can do things that are outside of your comfort zone.

Magical things happen I. I hope [00:53:00] that anybody reading this book takes away the, uh, idea that if you get out, amazing things can happen if you open yourself to it. That dogs are, incredible, companions to us providing unconditional love, giving us hope and ambition, to do things beyond what we're comfortable doing, uh, and uh, to get out and live as hard as you can.

You know, that's because wonderful things happen. They do happen, and this was one of them. It was a love story, but it's also, um, a story of glory doing things that just didn't seem possible, but are possible. 

Kush: Amazing. David and I believe the book is available across all. Places people hope to find books at.

David: Yeah. Yeah. Barnes and Noble online. Amazon online, and I did an audio book, uh, and it's, we just released a hardcover. and all of the money that we've, received from book sales three years ago, my wife and I started a group called The Friends of [00:54:00] Lucky Camino, and it's a, a group of 31 volunteers across 13 cities on the Camino Defe, uh, that have rescued to date close to 300 animals.

And so we are the, the backbone of that financially. we have a. A, a great team of people and I go back every year, I'm going back again in January to bring books, to bring money, to bring supplies and, fund them for the next year of helping these amazing animals, on the Camino Defe. 

Kush: That is delightful.

David Lucky's legacy lives on, and by his deed of partnering up with you, he's now giving hope to so many of the other strays in the country of Brazil. David, moving on. Would love to dive a little bit deeper into your preparation for. These kinds of, uh, athletic [00:55:00] accomplishments. I noticed that you have been working with Lisa Smith Batchen, and I was mm-hmm.

Smiling when I saw that. I've had Lisa on the show a while back, and it was such a beautiful episode. Much loved. And what struck me about Lisa's coaching style was it seemed like she has this, intuitive, maybe almost spiritual style of coaching and I mean, yeah, beyond just, you know, numbers and metrics, but maybe running by field and other people I've spoken with also have, uh, alluded to that.

So. How did working with Lisa shape your approach to these, uh, long, otherworldly expeditions? 

David: I went through a few coaches when I first started ultra running, and for various reasons I ran into Lisa, moving on from the others. it not because they were, the flawed or fail. it, you know, it [00:56:00] just wasn't the right fit.

And you have to have a really good working relationship. You have to trust your coach, whether it's a doctor or a coach, a financial advisor. You know, it's gotta be a, a trusting relationship. And so for me, working with Lisa has been an, an empowering, uh, relationship because she's, God, you know, you talk about a woman who's, broken barriers is, you know, one of the great endurance athletes in our country.

She's done it all, but she's also very humble. And she, as you pointed out, is extremely intuitive. And so if somebody's looking for metrics and they're looking for, quantitative analysis on my last run and the pace, and, all of the, she doesn't deliver that. What she does deliver is an incredible intuition on, on what you should do.

And I, and I, I affectionately call her the white witch, which is, she, you know, when you ask her things, she will say, I don't know. Let me, let me meditate on that. And you [00:57:00] just, you say, okay, well she's, she's really gonna, stir the cauldron and come back with something, but she's always right. I've had a great working relationship with her. I've, I've referred her to friends and sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. But for me, she gives me the foundation, so that I can just execute. And I always, I always think with a coach, they really earn their money when you have a problem, you know, because that's when we can't make the right decisions.

When things are going easy, you know, run this, run that every day. Great, great. But the second you get injured. That's when you need that perspective. The second you have, you're sick and you're worried that it's right when you should be peaking for the event. And what do I do? Should I push through the sickness?

That's when they earn their money. That's when you, that's when you really know, do you trust them? And how good are they with their wisdom, their intuition or their analytical skills to give you the right advice. And so for, for me, she's always been there. I don't, I don't talk to her much because usually everything's on autopilot.

I do the program, I do the program, [00:58:00] but she knows the second I have a problem, my back goes out. I have a flu, something. Lisa, what do I do? I need to know what do I do so I don't do something stupid. I don't hurt myself worse. I don't dig myself into pneumonia. She's there and she knows the answer. 

Kush: What did you learn from Lisa or.

Maybe just touch yourself, David, on how to know when to push harder and when to stop. 



David: I think structurally a coach helps you, program based on what your intended goal is, how you should train for that goal. Meaning should you do intervals, should you do speed work? Should you do base work?

That's what they do out in the field. we each have to be accountable for how we conduct ourselves. whether we push too hard and blow up whether we, how, how, so the two different things. Lisa's been great at helping me structure it, but [00:59:00] I think everybody. You know, there, there are some athletes who are not good at racers.

There are some who are not good trainers. You know, it, that's a skill that you have to develop over many, many events to know how to pace yourself, not only for a 5K, a 10 K, but if you're gonna go for a hundred days, how do you pace yourself for a hundred days? Very, I wanna say it's difficult, it's easy, but, you know, it takes time to develop that, that, that skill.

Kush: Absolutely. It isn't something that you hit on overnight. There are likely a lot of lessons that 

David: Yeah. Failures 

Kush: one has to Sometimes yes. Only, only learn the hard way. If you don't mind me asking, and I feel that maybe hosting this podcast allows me to be a bit bold. How young are you? 

David: I'm 62. 

Kush: Okay. Okay. 

David: I'm, I'm really, I'm really 61. I like to always go a year forward, so I, I'm used to it when I get there. 

Kush: Okay. Nice. yeah, talk about preparing oneself, uh, in different ways.

So you are in [01:00:00] your early sixties. Yeah. And you are running thousands of miles across all kinds of terrain. And you have been an athlete for a long time. You have your origins as. A wrestler, wrestler like you shared, but now you have moved on to other sports, in this case to long distance adventure running.

How has your relationship with your body changed? 

David: That's an excellent question. Um, because I am at my happiest at my best when I am connected with my body. spiritually I feel like I'm on a different plane, you know? and I, it's the only way I can describe it because when you run for a hundred days, you're in such harmony with your body.



David: you know, everything. Even, uh, I always joke that, I think I'm gonna get an injury in my left knee. But I can, I can fix it in my mind if I just meditate on it and [01:01:00] I just change my gait, ever. We're so gently and it, and it, and it, it changes. You know, there's a lightness of being, um, when you're that connected to your body and then after the event, you get further from that.

but you you have those control mechanisms, you know, that they're connected, in there, and you can get back into that state of harmony, which is one of the reasons you, we go back to it, I go back to it, a lot of people say, oh, aren't your knees a problem? I, you know, the answer's no. No. The more I do, the better I feel.



David: I, I just, I don't think there's a limit to, uh, how far we can go. It has to be governed of course, by, well, you can't go fast, right? That's not sustainable. And the biggest challenge that I've had, and, and these, you know, multi. Country states. the challenge is losing weight is how do you keep your weight on?

that's the big, the single biggest challenge because outside of that, if you can solve the eating issue, the calorie issue, uh, you could, you could live on the road forever, on the trail [01:02:00] forever and feel incredible, doing 20, 30, 40 miles a day. Now, once you get to 50 and 60, there's not a lot of time left for sleep.

And then you, you eat into recovery. And that's also not sustainable. But if you, you know, for me, I can run 10 to 12 hours a day on the road all day sleep like a baby. My sleep is perfect. I feel young. I feel connected to my body. I think with such clarity, but you gotta manage the speed and you gotta manage the calories.

Kush: David, I am fascinated by this idea of learning to. Really listen to your body and then sometimes adapting one's approach, one's execution. And of course, like you said, so much of that comes with that wisdom comes with experience. But curious, if there are any strategies that you have honed on, how do you listen?[01:03:00] 

How do you understand what your body needs and what you can ask it to do for that day or for the days ahead? 

David: Yeah, so let's take food as an example. I have gone through. Especially Iron Man, you know, the GOs buying the products, vomiting, not, you know, getting sweated out at the end of an Iron Man. Ultra marathons, same thing.

People, you know, I've had this gi distress towards the end because I just can't stomach anything anymore. And so I am a very big believer in all natural. If I go do anything, it's peanut butter and jelly sandwich. It's what I can find at a store. It's how I train. I train and I run around and I'll stop in a, Jimmy John's and get a sub, and then I'll, I'll keep running in the middle of the summer in Jacksonville.

I gotta train my gut to be able to take down real food. To be able to process it when I'm running. And there's a lot of things that are happening in [01:04:00] that, cycle there that are important for people to really explore. One is you start to be hungry for certain foods and you need to listen to that, right?

You, you may be craving a bacon cheeseburger, you might just need a lot of fat and a lot of sodium, and that's why your body's telling you that, that through being hungry for that or craving for that, your body's ability to absorb it is something different. It might be very hot, it might be super cold and rainy.

Different conditions lead to different absorptions. And so really important to practice all of that. And I do that very well, so that if I'm on the road, I'm, I'm thinking, I'm imagining what I'm craving right now and it's. Something, and then it connects with the, you know, that's my palate and that's, there's connects with, um, you know, some restaurant or something that I see or somebody's house brings me in and said, yeah, yeah, I, I could eat that.

I could eat that. and that is a way to be sustainable over a long period of time. The longer you go, the more important that becomes, obviously. because the [01:05:00] shorter distance you can, we can have a goo that's not a big deal, over 5K, but if you try to do that over 10 hours and 20 hours and then five days not sustainable, listening to your bodies, you know, another thing is just, being present, knowing that you don't have to keep running through an injury, pounding it harder, the, patience is the key to success in, and I, that's probably the biggest.

Factor in success and ultra, even in business, you know, you have to be patient a life. you have to just be patient with your body. Listen to when things are going wrong, when you're not feeling right and backing off because you will always be able to come around stronger if you're not, you know, disabled because you got injured or sick.

so all of these things are just practice in the field, experiment and always be thinking about sustainability. Is this something I can do forever? 

Kush: David, again, so insightful because I think so many of us in the western world have [01:06:00] lost this sensitivity to understanding what our body needs because we are constantly in sensory overload to.

We are constantly eating, right? So we never have an opportunity to really listen to ourselves and engage if we are eating something because we really need that versus eating some something because of boredom or because of this clut of availability. And I'm wondering if you have any words for people listening who on how they can rediscover the snack of listening to what their body needs without needing to again embark on long ultra runs.

David: I think it's, it comes down to really moving, get out and [01:07:00] exercise and develop a hunger for something, right? That's where it starts. One of the issues we have in today's world is you just keep eating, eating, eating. You stop at a gas station, there's something to eat. Everybody's just eating, eating, eating without being hungry.

You know, they're craving for food. Get out and move, get hungry. Really be hungry and think about what it is that you're hungry for and earn that, that ability to eat and state that craving for what your body really needs. But you can only figure that out if it's hungry for, truly hungry for something, because you've earned it, not because you're just cramming your face.

You know, the other thing that you just said, which I, I. I agree with more is that, you know, we're flooded in today's world with people telling us kind of what to think and how to analyze something. And one thing with our bodies, especially that,I really think a a lot about is, you know, when, when you have a problem, you know, your [01:08:00] knee hurts, ankle hurts, you have a, whatever it is, you go to a doctor and a doctor has studies that, you know, they work the numbers.

There's a bell curve of, oh, it's a soft tissue injury that takes, uh, six to eight weeks to heal. And the second somebody tells you you're gonna heal in six to eight weeks, your mind is set on calculating that time to get yourself better because you know the mind. It has gotta focus it, it's gotta, it's gotta calculate to something.

The reason people don't finish races is because the mind can't calculate what's required to get you over the finish line. But if you can calculate it, you can finish it. if a doctor's telling you it's six to eight weeks for a soft tissue injury, your mind is now got a set point for six to eight weeks.

The truth of the matter is, there's somebody who probably would take 12 weeks and the average person in America, who's probably not you as an athlete, would take six to eight weeks. But you might be one day, you might be one week. so don't click in. I always tell a doctor, I'll show you. I'll be on the other end of the [01:09:00] bell curve.

It'll be, it'll, I'll be better by, uh, tomorrow or the next day. And push your mind to solve the problem in that earlier, you know, as quickly as possible, as opposed to being set at some. You know, standard of the Belk person, it's not us, 

Kush: it's not David. just one thing on the subject of food, I just realized like, on, on a, on a lighter note.

David: Yeah, 

Kush: of course it's important to move to maybe, build an honest appetite. Yeah. But then also, you know, when one is moving, especially, across landscapes or maybe even just away from your house from the easy availability of food. I mean, just, I think reducing, reducing just calories around us, I think also has that effect sometimes.

Right. I mean, sometimes the solutions are not like, insanely complicated, I think. I think, yeah. by moving, I mean, honestly, like, I, like in my life, like, again, like I mentioned, I am traveling in a van and I don't have, you know, endless supplies of food or. Availability of gourmet food in rural Mexico.

I think just, just that forces, [01:10:00] caloric discipline. because, yeah. So maybe another, uh, you know, another tip to listeners might be yes. be moving and try to move in places of, be in places where one is not, always surrounded by don't. Yeah. Don't give into if you, if one reduces temptation, I think that is simple, but has a strong effect.

David, you, you don't have this typical, phase of retirement that you are working through, right? Like you have had this successful career as. This businessman before you, and now you are, doing all these other things. You know, you're running, you are writing books, you are running foundations.

I, I'm just wondering like, how has this phase of your life, is it enabling you to think of just aging differently?

David: Yeah. for me, I have been keenly aware of three forces that, drive my decisions. the variables are time, money, and health. I can get hit by a [01:11:00] bus tomorrow and it's over, and that's it. It doesn't matter how much money I had, if I was in health, of course I could have. Debilitating the cancer tomorrow, and then I can't do this anymore.

And so I don't need all the money. I have the health and today I have one day, I have maybe tomorrow and some other days, so I try to live urgently. two years ago, my wife and I, our kids are gone and we sold our house that we lived in for 22 years and pretty much gave away everything we had in the house.

And we have three small footprints that we live in. We have Micah, just very simple. We just have what we need. Uh, there's no reason to clutter a house because I think the less distractions you have, the less things you have, the more distracted you are. And I, I want full creativity time. I just want to be able to create and think about the good things.

You know, when you get to an age, you don't have to solve it. I think a lot, I talk to a lot of friends who are getting close to [01:12:00] retirement, oh, I don't know what I'm gonna do in retirement. And I, I always say, well, you don't need to solve for all of retirement until you die. Just, pick a mission, pick one mission, simplify your life, pivot to something that's exciting, new, fresh, and all of that will spark new ideas, new energy for you.

Pick one thing and for me, you know, that, that one thing might've been the running the community. And then that one event led to something else that led to a dog, that led to America, that led to Europe. go play, go have fun, go adventure, but keep your life simple and, and keep focused on the things that are meaningful.

you're not gonna. Learn a lot on social media. You know, it's just, all that stuff is a distraction. Get out in the world and go live.

Kush: David, obviously, you're adventurous, but you live with intention, you have build structure, and you have acquired these, ha habits hard on habits [01:13:00] which keep you on the course. And curious if you don't mind sharing maybe one habit or one behavior that you brought into your life, let's say in the last five years that's been of most impact.

David: am a huge proponent of getting up. And getting your exercise in early, you know, as a, as a parent, as somebody who's retired, you know, it doesn't matter what phase of life you're on, it's the, it's, that's the time of the day when we're in the most control. And it's the best way to set a foundation for what the next 23, 22 hours are gonna look like.

How you're gonna sleep that night. How are you gonna sit through a meeting? How are you gonna listen to, your children with their problems? and if you set that tone for yourself, to go out and to exert yourself and meditate on what you know,how you feel today, what your day [01:14:00] is gonna bring to you, um, you will have a better day.

And I think that's probably the most important habit, that I could share. 

Kush: Sure. Sure. Get it out of the way, uh, the first thing, and then let it set the tone for the day. 

David: Yeah. 

Kush: Talking of take 

David: it on. 

Kush: Talking of, yeah. Talking of structuring your day or your week, obviously when you are on a big run, those days are very different.

But when you are at home in between runs, like right now you are at home in Florida, what does a typical day or a typical week looks like? 

David: So I run, uh, right now I run six days a week and I do two or three days of strength and that's it. a couple of funny things, Lisa, who tells me when to do strength and when to do stretching.

A couple of weeks [01:15:00] ago, I said, oh, my, my back is hurting or something. And she said, are you stretching? I said, I gotta confess to you, I haven't stretched in about three or four years. so I'm, I'm back to stretching. which I think is good, when I didn't stretch, it was okay too. Uh, but anyway, I think the core is the running and the, and the strength is really key.

I do think stretching is good. I started some Pilates, that has helped me a lot. Uh, and I think as you get older, you know, you get tighter. So I do think that I gotta get back and be more attentive to that. And then the last 

Kush: thing, and I'm wondering, uh, and I'm wondering like, you know, your early years as a wrestler Yeah.

I'm wondering that kind of set in these really strong foundations for agility that might still be, uh, carrying on. 



David: maybe, I dunno, when I fall on the trail, everybody always says, man, that was a good fall. I say, yeah, 'cause they used to wrestle. 

Kush: Oh, that's right. I mean, of course it has. Uh, I know how to fall.

other benefits also. And yeah, I interrupted. and you seem the last thing. [01:16:00] 

David: Oh, the last thing I, I just remember which,I found interesting. You know, I, uh, over your life, you get, you try supplements, you try vitamins, you try medicines, et cetera. And, interesting thing that happened to me on this run, I, I, over the years, you know, I take, uh, chondroitin, glucosamine, chondroitin, I take, um, turmeric, I take, you know, I, I had all these things that I was taking that I firmly believed in because I don't get injured a lot.

And I would tell you, yeah, the glucosamine conjoin is perfect for the joints. And you know, it's, I swear by it and the swelling on the turmeric and my multivitamin and all this. But when I went, went across Europe, when I went across the United States, I had an rv. So everything was kind of normal. When I went across Europe, the logistics were very, very different.

I did not have an rv. Um, we basically, worked out of a car and I thought to myself, before I left, I'm gonna need for a hundred days, like a thousand pills. You know, I'm, I'm gonna have to have like a, like a suitcase full of pills, right? Because I dunno if I can buy stuff in the middle of, [01:17:00] uh, you know, Croatia or Albania.

And so I said, you know what, it's a per I, I know that over a hundred days I'm gonna be in perfect harmony with my body if I am missing something, hungry for something. I will know it, right? If I'm injured, if I, I will know it. I will. Perfect. So I just stopped everything, literally everything. I didn't take one, one pill with me.

And of course I was fine. 

Kush: I was, 

David: I had no problems. So, uh, you know, that's the other thing. I, I just stopped all, all supplements, everything, simplify my, my, my life even further, which made me very happy. So people should try. She, just because we've been doing things doesn't mean we have to keep doing them.

keep trying things. 

Kush: And yes, the nutrition industry is very powerful and the marketing is, uh, omnipresent. So it, it is difficult to. [01:18:00] To give up on some things because we are told that, Hey, what's the big deal? what's the worst that can happen? But I think most of us are not really thinking about what our body needs versus what those supplements could maybe provide us.

Good words. David, do you think that your best years are behind you or ahead of you? 



David: I'm, I'm, I'm a half full person still, you know my answer. I'm defining, I'm gonna make sure that, uh, I have great years ahead. I dunno how long they'll last, which is why I do them with urgency. and I, I don't need to be rich to, do the things I do.

I can do them as simply as I want to be. And, you know, my wealth is the experience that I have in doing them and having the ability to do them and meet the people and places and the history. And it's, uh, that's, that's, I can only hope that I can continue to do it, but I, I will do it with intention and urgency for sure.

Kush: David, your [01:19:00] vitality and your zest for, for life does come across loud and clear. So I agree that, your optimism is, uh, is well founded. You are now at, I believe, the spirit of, of break between international adventures. So mind sharing what is cooking. What's this next big thing that you are, uh, scheming up?

David: You know, I'm looking at a couple of different things. my father and stepmother adopted, a Chinese girl who is my sister, and she just turned, she's about 30 and she just got married two weeks ago and she asked me to officiate her wedding. So we had an unbelievably meaningful time and I told her, you know, Tian, I'm thinking about trying to run across China.

never been done and it's a big country. So I'm intrigued by that and having her meet me back there someplace along the way. And I think it would be a, a fun thing to do. [01:20:00] Um, and the other thing I'm thinking about is running across Australia. I haven't been to Australia from, from Perth to Sydney.

Um, it has been done before. There's an FKT, not that I would try to break the FKT, but it's, it's, a route that is already done. And that's good. But it's also, I, I like to do my own route. I like to explore history. It's not just about, getting from point A to B, uh, and the quickest, shortest way.

So my preference would be a China, but we'll see. I don't know. I'm right now, my wife is saying, just shut it down for a while, stay home, be focused on me. So, but I am dreaming of something, big like that. 

Kush: It sounds colossal. It sounds incredible. David, Your adventures and your writing and the way you have,

created this wondrous present and future for yourself will inspire many of us, not just Midlifers, who are thinking about [01:21:00] what's next. I'm curious what or who inspires you,

David: Bob Becker. 

Kush: Ah,

David: I actually do, I put together a trip, an annual trip, for my friends, and I take them to do a Camino trip. Might be, um, like this year we went to do Camino del Norte, which is up in the northern part of Spain. And Bob is one of those friends and we do. It's usually a six, seven day, 200 mile, rugged adventure.

But we do it in a way that it's supported. so that, you know, I have a team that has our bags and they get to the hotel and we ha we, we all are out on the trail all day. Everybody's responsible from getting from point A to point to the village, get your ass to the hotel and then we're gonna break some bread, have some laughs, and do it again.

And Bob, you know, he told me, he, every year he says, David, I just wanna make sure I can be there for [01:22:00] next year's trip. And now he's 80 years old, so when I'm 80, 20 years from now, I, I hope I can continue to do, do it like he does. 

Kush: Absolutely. Bob is a living legend. 

David: Yeah. 

Kush: And I just think back. To the conversation I had with him on this podcast.

And that happened right before his, uh, or a little before his, bad water success. 

David: Mm-hmm. 

Kush: And then he went on and, uh, achieved it. Yes. Bob inspires all of us. David, I encourage listeners to go find be beautifully written book. Lucky. Thank you. A true story. And if people want to follow along on your adventures, learn about the prior ones and be next to you on these upcoming ones, how can they do that?



David: this is a habit that I developed, running. These big multi-day events is I like to, at the end of every day, spend an hour writing, [01:23:00] what it is that I experienced on that day. I want to, I want to be able to process it and put it down and share some images so that I can go back and remember it.

And so I have a, a blog, David Green Run, and I have all of my trips and all of my writings. And, uh, another thing I love to do is I love to talk to people and interview people. So when I ran across the United States, I think I interviewed 80 people, just Americans at the time it was, there was CVD, there was a lot of polarization.

And I met people from every walk of life who shared their stories with me, and I did the same, um, running across Europe. Uh, along the Caminos I met people and I, did interviews that I put on my blog. So I, I share everything there. I'm really not on social media. the friends of Lucky Camino is because they are, you know, social, they're, their outreach is to help educate people, but I personally am not really on social, but if anybody wants to follow, it's David green.run.

And if anybody wants to drop me a note or any advice, um, [01:24:00] then my email's on the website, 

Kush: we will put links to your website. And I mean, you do have an Insta Instagram account, though I completely understand that. it may not be the most productive way to, uh, spend your time writing long form on your website is so, 

David: yeah.

Kush: Yes. folks should check out your writing and, uh, the interviews you record, are they in audio form somewhere or can people just, uh, read about them? 

David: They're on Vimeo, and embedded onto the web onto my blog. 

Kush: Beautiful. 

David: Yeah. I am on Vimeo, so all of my interviews are on Vimeo as well. David Green.

Kush: Okay, great. Great. so it sounds like people can go to David green.run and they can find, uh, links to all of your, uh, creativity. David, it's been a joy having you on the podcast. Thank you so much for coming on. 

David: My [01:25:00] pleasure, Kush. It's, it's been, uh, a wonderful, time to kind of talk about everything and I hope, uh, I hope that there's one thing people do out of this is, uh, the world is a small place and, um, it's there for all of us to live in and, uh, enjoy and experience.