The World’s Wildest Ultra — Harvey Lewis’ Unusual Ways for Healing His Broken Body

Ageless Athlete - Harvey Lewis
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Kush: [00:00:00] Harvey, I always like to start with this question, which is, where are you right now and what did you have for breakfast this morning? 

Harvey: I am in my, my classroom here where I teach in high school, uh, government class slash financial literacy and AP government. for breakfast, uh, a cereal called three Wishes.

With oat milk, uh, and oatley, oat milk, uh, chia seeds, some frozen blueberries. And also I had a couple of the sesame bars. They're from, uh, Poland just because I like to eat lot, um, recovery. And I had some acai juice and I had also. What else do I have? I had like some graham crackers.

I don't eat those very often, but I was just like [00:01:00] having a craving for graham crackers, so I did have some, yeah. 

Kush: Well that sounds like a, a comprehensive breakfast for the elite athlete that you are and the. Because the calories you need to consume to just, stay active and alive. So is this, is this breakfast entirely consumed Harvey when you set, set out in the morning?

Because I, I believe that you commute to work while running. 

Harvey: Yes. 



Harvey: Before. Yeah, before. 

Kush: Got it. And, actually, tell us about this, uh, this running commute that you have.

Uh, how, how long does it take for you to get to work? 

Harvey: Well. Uh, to be honest with you, uh, see I've been doing a, a human powered commute for over 12 years, my typical thing is to run commute, [00:02:00] like, uh, up until, uh, this big backyard. Uh, world championship race where I really did a number on myself and I ran 466.5 miles, but I broke two ribs, on the fifth day falling, and then I tore my hamstring.

So, uh, I've been really the most beat up. Hundred percent of from any race I've ever done, after the race. And the race finished, uh, three weeks ago. So, uh, when I got home, uh, I started like commuting with, actually I used crutches to get about a quarter mile over to the city bikes they have. And then I hopped on the city bike.

And I, I rode that to school and it was really, really tough. Uh, that first week, uh, was touch and go, whether or not I was gonna be able to even pull that [00:03:00] off because it took a lot of energy and I just, at that moment in time, I was still recuperating from the broken ribs and like the hamstrings. So. but remarkably enough, I, I, I survived that, making it that first week.

And then, yeah, last week was, um, I managed to do a number, 'cause on Monday I hit a bump, a speed bump. With the bicycle. 

Kush: Oh, 

Harvey: no. Yeah, yeah. And I wasn't thinking anything of it, but that speed bump really jarred my ribs. And so I felt really agitated with that. Like my ribs were like, it was like a dagger spiking me, the next couple days.





Harvey: it got a lot better this last weekend. I don't have any discomfort in my hamstring, which is kind of crazy. I felt really good. Uh, so well, yesterday I actually ran a mile. the doctor said it would be about [00:04:00] 10 weeks. I think they may have set, met like 10 days. A couple days, so I'm doing so yeah, I wouldn't suggest this to other people, but anyways, I feel really good.

So like today, I actually, I, instead of getting on a bike, or, I mean actually Monday, I started walking back and forth to work. And then today I actually ran the work again, but I didn't run fast. I just ran easy and I felt really well. I don't have any discomfort in my, my hamstrings. So, uh, I've been doing like a lot of the things I need to do, like, uh.

Sleeping a lot. I slept like a lot of those last few weeks. I've slept, like sometimes I've slept 10 or 12 hours. now I'm more like eight and a half, but I've used a lot of sleep. Two nutrition. I eat like all this nutritious vegan foods. Three. I'm very fortunate that I have, a Mr. [00:05:00] Mgi. So Mr.

Mgi does active release therapy and he has been instrumental in my re recovery, but I also do a lot of different things like I do the, the sauna. I've been using red light, uh, therapy. Um, there's no doubt in my mind that like. These things have contributed to my recovery being like ex accelerated, far, far faster than it would've otherwise.

I mean, when I first injured my leg, I couldn't even move it more than a few inches. Like I was like, uh. Eight or eight inches. I couldn't straighten my leg. but everything has moved. I've been very, um, focused on recovery. Uh, and it's moved, it's accelerated. And so like this last weekend was like a shifting point.

And I went out and walked four miles in the morning and two miles in the afternoon, and it's unbelievable because I felt so [00:06:00] bad, so terrible the last few weeks. And then there was just this shifting point. So today is a celebration day because I literally ran the work today and I felt amazing. I have zero issue.

I'm not sprinting, I'm not lifting 200 pounds and I'm not doing anything explosive because I, I know that I still need the gradual buildup, the scaffolding, but, but what's remarkable is that I wasn't really expecting to run maybe even the rest of this year, and all of a sudden, in a matter of four or five days, it's shifted like.

Super fast. uh, I'm, I'm kind of blown away by that, but also it's like I, I'm really good at listening to the body and I've, you know, I've been running my, you know, I've been running for like over 30 some years, so I really know my body very well, and I know, you know, when, when to push and when to not push.

And I feel very good at right now. And it's, it's, it's mind boggling. 

Kush: Hari, thanks for sharing all [00:07:00] that. I first wanna call out that despite these injuries, which might be crippling for most people, you have continued your resolve to use human powered commutes to work. 

Harvey: Yeah. 

Kush: Do you, do you even own a car, Harvey?

Harvey: I do, I do. I do own a Jeep. 

Kush: Okay. 

Harvey: Yeah. Yeah. 

Kush: Okay. 



Harvey: But I, I love, honestly, I love the, the run commute and when I can do it, I like to choose to, to just commute on foot. And I mean, honestly, even the cycling element, I don't think I really believe in, like, I'm not, I would never tell anyone to like I.

Not follow the doctor's advice or to, yeah, do anything outside of that. But for me, like the, even the cycling was a component of this recovery, like even the cycling in the first week. And I mean, [00:08:00] I'm not. Uh, I'm not going super crazy fast, like in fact, on these city bikes sometimes I'm going up the hill and I feel like, you know, there's someone walking and they're like, nearly past me because the hill is tough to climb with the three gears.

yeah, it's, it's been, um. Really something like, just see that if you feed the body the right ingredients, how the body will respond, it's pretty amazing. And sometimes it doesn't respond as quickly as you want it to, you know, it can take a long time. So it's like you, you just have to be that persistence and cons, consistency you know, it, it can surprise you at times.

And this has surprised me because I was. Just so, so beat up. I mean, from the, the whole experience, uh, I was definitely not expecting to recover as quickly as I, I, I've kind of have moved into, 

Kush: you spoke of all kinds of [00:09:00] recovery tools, different modalities, you know, all the popular ones, all the ones that seem to be in, in the high zeitgeist.

These days with red light therapy and, and sauna and different kind of foods. But maybe the most important might be Harvey is just like your desire and your will to get back. And I sense that many people out there who, who get hurt like you did, and they try all these approaches and they, they're not able to recover as quickly as is, is maybe that maybe they're not trying hard enough and they don't want to.

They, they don't want it as bad. And, and I can just say, I can just tell from your, from your, from your tone and your attitude that you really put this recovery, front and center and you pushed yourself, more than most people could, 



Kush: The cycling and, and, and maybe just, just trying, trying that extra bit hard [00:10:00] to get every little thing back.

You can, you could after each therapy session after the end of each day. And I, I said that that was probably like that one, like all important, factor that helps people like yourself and others come back who really, really, really want to get back into doing the thing that they love. 

Harvey: Yeah, so it would be, there's two ways to look at that.

And one, the trying element in terms of like reaching out for more information, uh, seeking out like, 



Harvey: growth, but trying not in a sense of like. Forcing, the body to move ahead of where it's is ready to move ahead. So, I mean, by trying, not that going out and pushing your body harder, but by trying to, educate yourself and learn on what.

Methods you can utilize that are still within [00:11:00] your domain, that you won't hurt yourself by doing it. So like for example, early on there was like really not much I could do other than the sauna and asana. And even going back in the saana. Normally I go in as. I missed a 9 190 degrees for 20 minutes. Um, but I couldn't do that first.

I had to start off at first, I think I was like, had to do five minutes on and like then out, and then five minutes on and like then out, and then I got up to like 12 minutes and then 13 minutes and then like just in the last. three days. I think I got back to 20 minutes and like my normal sauna time, but like my body was not ready for it, so, so trying in a sense of like, continuously looking for opportunities where you can like, reach into that Possibly give you a breakthrough. And fortunately I have Andy Shely. He does active release [00:12:00] therapy, so he has a lot of different, like, uh, state-of-art machines, electromagnetic, I mean he did, he uses a laser, multiple therapies with his machines that, you know, it's not, the average person gets access to that.

But it's a, there's a lot of things that exists out there. Physical therapy would be a really good one. but, uh, it, it, it really helped to reach into every bucket that I could reach towards Even at this moment, I'm definitely not outta the woods, so I still have to like, work on it.

I mean, I ran, uh, or I didn't run, I, I hiked home on Monday and like hiking up a normal hill in Cincinnati that I normally just run up and it was a lot of effort. So I'm not at the same place I was when I was like at my. Peak prior to like going into the world championship. Like I'm, but I don't think like that.

I just [00:13:00] think about like where I'm headed. I don't get stuck into the minutia, minutia, or where I'm at right now. It's only 'cause that's not mattering. It's not, I'm not gonna be here very long. It's about where I'm climbing each day. Even if that climb is only centimeters or inches, it doesn't matter.

'cause I'm still working and I know, I have a vision of where I'm going so that it's important to like have a, a vision and know that this is just a temporary place because you're dedicated, you're going to continue to do something to pull out of it. 

Kush: Harvey, I, again, I love the, commute by foot or by pedals.

Part I, I've been living in San Francisco for. Almost 20 years and I have bike commuted the whole time. Wow, great. And I know how that's 

Harvey: great. 

Kush: Sacred. Yeah. I know how sacred that ritual is for me. And I know that it doesn't rain a whole as [00:14:00] much as. Here as much as it does where you live in Ohio, but it can rain.

And I remember, , really rainy, Januarys where the sky was coming down and I was just, just that just being able to, to go by bicycle was so important. And I had, you know, all kinds of like layers and , waterproof park on me just to be able to kind of continue that because that just holds meaning for me.

I have to ask though, you mentioned the saunas, so 



Kush: Were you mixing in cold plunges between the sauna sessions to, to kind of keep up with that modality? 

Harvey: I've definitely done that in the past. not enough. Uh, I do love that. I mean, I'm not really strong in the cold category as well as I am in the hot category.

It's, uh, area that I'd like to develop, in fact. but in this, this period I didn't, 'cause I didn't 

have access to a cold plunge. , 

, Honestly, I, I see the total value of it. In [00:15:00] fact, my wife and I were talking about. Getting one today. So that's ironic that you happen to mention it.

I really like going to like, some of these places they have in the country now, like the bathhouse in, uh, New York City. Uh, we went to one in, uh, Seattle where it's like a place that's like set up and it specializes in like hot and cold and I mean, it's just like. Amazing. Like they have all these different like saunas, they have different cold plunges at different temperatures, hot tubs and ice and all kinds of different cool things.

So I really see the value of that. the last three weeks I've felt so, absolutely destroyed. I was on the ground in the ditch, there was like. 50 feet deep. And so I, I also had a hard time with, temperature regulation. So because my body was so beat up, that's why I wasn't getting [00:16:00] into the sauna for like initially like only five minutes.

Like that's ridiculous for me. I normally couldn't do, that's like nothing. But it was like my body was having a hard time regulating that. Temperature. And so getting into a cold plunge, I feel like the last few weeks maybe it would've been positive, but mentally I was not there. Like, I, I would not, I don't even think I could, maybe if it was 50 degrees, but not 38, I don't know about that.

It would've been just get in, get out. I definitely see the value of it 100%. 

Kush: Harvey, it's. It's a privilege actually to get this front and center view into your recovery because there's much for the rest of us to, to learn from. Last question here. If you could stack rank the efficacy of all these modalities and how they've helped you in your training journey, could you take a stab at that?



Harvey: To rank them, you're saying? 

Kush: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, just, yeah, just, [00:17:00] 

Harvey: oh, okay. Uh, yeah. It's really hard to say because, they're also equally important. Like you can't, like. operate with one or the other. So, for me though, I would say, uh, sleep has been really important, especially, uh, breaking two ribs and tearing the hamstring as well as just beating my body down.

I've had, like, initially the first two weeks, like I had like absolutely zero energy, and so I would literally like, just like commute home and then get home and like. go do, hot baths of Epsom salt for like an hour or, or maybe longer. And that would definitely be my top five. but, uh, yeah, I would literally go to bed and like, not, I, I would, didn't get strong sleep like I was, I'll wake up like.

Three times, four times. I don't know if you've had other guests on the show, but like, I had like hot sweats, like, um, like night [00:18:00] sweats, I guess you'd call 'em. I don't, I don't remember the exact 

Kush: Sure, 

Harvey: uh, terminology for it, but like, yeah, like literally my body has been like.

Acting as if I have like a fever or something and I like wake up all sweaty, all the way up until like this last, uh, I think Friday or Saturday was like the first time that that didn't really happen. And even I've had a small amount like the last. Few days, not as much. Like it was just, it's, my body's pretty much over that, but it's just this whole process of like healing and it is really weird.

but then I'd say like, nutrition is really critical. Like, uh, after the race, lot of people would expect, uh, lost weight in the race. I wasn't really down in weight too much. Like I normally weigh like one 60. but. Uh, initially when I broke my, my ribs, I went to the urgent care and then they told me I had to go to the ER because I had like some fluid in my, lung.

they showed up on [00:19:00] the x-ray. and so then I ended up, uh, getting admitted to the hospital. because they were concerned about, uh, internal bleeding from the ribs. So when that happened, uh, I wasn't able to eat for like 24 hours that was already had run for like five days.

And if this was actually a few days after the race, but nevertheless, my body hadn't had a chance to catch up on my, my eating and fueling. So, and then also with the broken ribs, it's a little bit, it, it's some, sometimes it's, it, it, it puts a little extra agitation on your ribs when you're digesting the food and when you're like drinking, it's weird.

But in any case, I like was also not, doing my normal fitness. So like muscle weighs more. you know, I actually like. From not doing my normal fitness, I lost like five pounds from like the loss of muscle weight [00:20:00] from like not doing my normal fitness, which kind of, kind of astounding.

after I saw that, I'm like, what in the world? Like that is crazy. So I, I've definitely, you know, as you heard from my breakfast. I'm not messing around. I like eating more. Like today I had two bean burritos. then I just had like, uh, black bean, burger. yeah, it is like, um, I'm eating a lot of food.

the food is really important for like the inflammation. It's really important to get enough nutrients to really feed your body. Like that's where of energy's coming from. um, the body's ability to heal itself, uh, is amplified by getting the right fuel. So the, the food is really critical.

Then I'd say absolutely, like, uh, getting like expert advice, like, you know, going and seeing specialists is real, really important. with that I've [00:21:00] been very fortunate that amongst my circle is Andy. She, uh, peak performance and he does this active release therapy, which, uh, he does manual therapy and he'll like work on like trigger points and breaking up like the scar tissue is nothing that hurts.

Like we do everything in a, in a manner that. Is within a, like, on a scale of one to 10, like it's never above a three to five. So in terms of like any type of discomfort. So it's not, not like that, but having Andy, or if someone can like, you know, see a, someone like a sports, or let's say like a physical therapist, that is huge.

Huge. And so it's hard. I can't measure Andy. Below or above sleep nutrition. You know, things like hot acid, like Epsom salt motion is a lotion, so motion may be appropriate or unappropriate for the person depending on what the [00:22:00] it is they're experiencing. But for most people, some degree of motion is really important.

And like for me, like I actually feel like the motion is, is critical for, lowering discomfort. Like if you're static and you're sitting in one place, you're probably gonna feel more discomfort than if you're actually in a movement. So, The cycling that, you know, initially, like I had a couple times where my foot slipped off the pedal in the first week, uh, maybe the beginning of the second week where I felt like that in my hamstring.

but other than that, um, I've actually really believe that little bit of motion with the cycling where I wasn't like going, I mean, in my normal day of more normal life of events, that would be like a. Less than 50% effort, So it wasn't really like, it's not like I'm crushing it down the hill or up the hill, but just like getting the motion in the body.

It is really important. I feel afford the recovery [00:23:00] and then walking, and then now it's a slow jog. I'm just remark. I'm, so, I was not even planning last week. Like you asked me the same time last week, when will I start running again? I would've said, I don't know, maybe like January 1st. I have no idea. So the amount of recovery I is, uh, uh, incredible.

But it's like. Giving the body the right ingredients. Don't rushing. Not rushing. And people are gonna say, you're rushing. You think you're rushing. But I don't feel any discomfort. And I feel like it feels good and I can just tell the difference. I'm going for MRI tomorrow, uh, I am gonna meet with the specialist again.

But I really think that he is gonna look at the MRI and just be like, Hey, wow, it has healed fast. What is going on here? So, so yeah, those are like some of the key ingredients. There's a lot things I could come up with, but I mean, it's like doing what you can with the resources you have, like the sauna, whatever it is that the person, [00:24:00] uh, can get into is important to find what you can do right now.

Kush: Harvey, thanks for. Humoring us and educating us on all the different things you're doing and what's working. Yeah. What's absolutely sacrosanct. And then what are some of the other, uh, layers on top? How long do you estimate, again, just ballpark, where you think you might be close to fully healed? A hundred percent.

Harvey: uh, that's so much of a guess in a shot in the dark. Like, uh, I would say, it's hard to say. Like, I don't, I don't have any expectation or pressure on myself. Like, I'm just grateful to be able to go run a mile yesterday and then today run three miles of work with my backpack. that, that's kind of nuts.

So the idea of like getting it is just gonna happen naturally in its own time. [00:25:00] It, things have moved a lot faster forward than I thought they would like. Uh, so I, I mean, I, I would say I would wanna be back to somewhere near my a hundred percent in January, but, uh, I really have no idea, like that's sort of a moving time, uh, moving PO point because it could be slightly before that could be like a little bit after that.

And I have no, like, race on my calendar just yet. that I'm sharing. So I don't know, but I really feel like probably by January I'll be able to like be springing and running up and down the mountain and, uh, jumping over logs and doing all kinds of crazy things and have zero issues. But, I don't know.

I'm not planning this weekend 

Kush: Right on.

Absolutely. Well, uh, you know, fingers crossed that, recovery stays on schedule and you come back. It'll, uh, just better it'll, and [00:26:00] stronger it'll, yeah, yeah, absolutely. We'll be, uh, hearing from the sidelines, Harvey. I'm not a runner. My background is I'm a rock climber. I've been climbing for most of my life, and I also surf bit.

That's awesome. And I, but I, I, I love, um. I love endurance sports of most kinds, and when I started the podcast, I started learning more about, ultra runs and then I learned about you through people like Lisa Smith Batchen and Bob Becker, both of whom have been on the show. And I learned about all the different type of races you guys have done together.

Bad water is absolutely incredible in the way it crosses landscapes and, uh, pushes people further than they have been pushed before. But then I started [00:27:00] learning about some of the races that exist outside of this already niche sport, and I learned about a little bit about the, the big backend ultra, which also happens to be.

This race where you injured yourself. So for those who don't understand this race and don't know about the format, can you paint a quick picture or what does this race about and what makes it so distinctive? 

Harvey: Yeah, so, uh, it's great. You've had Lisa and, and Bob on the show. Uh, both of them have, have done so many different things and Bob, most recently, of course, that's incredible.

He, he finished 135 mile race bad water at the young age of 80. yeah. That's just so amazing. And he's been one that's been, [00:28:00] uh, really, Carving away and etching new paths. I mean, he didn't achieve this at age 77. He missed it, but he went back and he finished it at age 83 hours faster. And Lisa, his coach, she worked with him on a number of things like his form, his like overall physicality.

He, he is shifted his nutrition to eating vegan foods. His cardiologist loves that. powerful. Yeah. So Big's backyard is a different ultra. This, this is a race that was invented by none other than Lazarus Lake. The, also the inventor of the Barkley marathons and l is, uh, a, a, a total maverick and character, uh, that you enjoy.

Uh. Seen in some sort of film. He is got like a, a, a motley [00:29:00] beard and he wears a hat that says geezer. He came up with this race. His, his vision, uh, goes all the way back to when he was in high school. He was like, uh, scrawny 80 pounds and he, he really wasn't the fastest kid on the, uh, cross country team, but he had this tenacity and he thought, geez, if I could just have a race where everyone just had to keep on going, I think I'd actually win that race.

So what happened was he ended up inventing this race where. Runners have to run 4.167 miles every hour. It's like 6.7 kilometers every hour for as long as humanly possible until there's only one remaining who's the last person standing? It sounds a whole lot like the Stephen King book, the Long March, a Long Walk, but LA actually came up with this even before that came out.

So basically what [00:30:00] happens, runners, they get this. Hour to complete the 4.1 vials. They, if they do it in like 50 minutes, they got 10 minutes where they can go and lay down, eat a whole bunch of food, relax, put their feet up, stretch. Hang out with their crew, and then they have to be up in the crowd again by the top of that hour.

If they're not, then they're out. So this race, it, it covers, uh, they goes 11 hours on the trail and then it rotates to a country road where runners run out and back and they do, uh, 13 hours on the road. It's about a 450 foot climb every hour. It's a lot of climbing across the race, on the trail, and then on the road, maybe it's 300 feet, but there's a lot of climbing across the whole race.

And runners have to like deal with sleep deprivation. Uh, they may not, and summer runners can sleep more or less based on how much time they get back into the camp [00:31:00] based on how fast they run the loop and they have to keep fueling or they're just going to, uh, be totally. Uh, just wiped out. yeah, the arrest that happened, uh, October 18th in bell Buckle, Tennessee.

That's the race where I ran. Uh, we were 75 runners from all over the globe. Many countries rep dozens of, uh, countries represented as a champion of those home countries. And then they took the, at large, the highest distance achieved in the world. And, uh. I think 270 miles was like the lowest mileage necessary to qualify to get into the race.

But we had, oh, I think about eight runners made it to 400 miles maybe even more so, more than that, uh, we had, uh, just a really incredible field of runners it was, it was a great, great [00:32:00] competition.

Kush: there is something incredible. So let me get this right. So one is required to complete a certain number of miles every hour and then 

Harvey: Yeah. 

Kush: Keep it. What happens if you miss that cutoff? Are you, are you eliminated? 

Harvey: You're a one out, you're eliminated. Done? Yeah. 

Kush: Wow. 

Harvey: So you, you can't afford to have one bad hour, and it seems like 4.167 miles seems pretty easy, but it's a hundred miles every 24 hours.

So you know, you have to run through the day, and then the nights and then the day, and then the night. And for my race, I only slept like. Maybe a couple minutes the first night, that was it. Like I laid down and closed my eyes, but I just wouldn't fall asleep. So I only fell asleep one time for a couple minutes the first day, and I didn't sleep again until like the fifth night.

And, uh, so they. Four, four days I ran. I didn't fall at all on the trail. And then that fifth day I was just getting a little bit loopy. I was not like, maybe I was a little behind on [00:33:00] my calories. Mm. I was like sleep deprived. I hadn't slept for four days. So I mean, I was like, I felt down like. At least half a dozen times and probably more than that.

I can't remember all the times I fell down, but, and one of the times I fell, I remember hitting my, my ribs pretty good. And I know like, oh yeah, I did something there. I, but my spirit animal is the honey badger. And the honey badger doesn't stop when you break ribs. Or you know, as long as I didn't break anything, that stops me from moving, I'm still going.

So I just got up and I kept on moving. I kept running for about another 12 hours before I got timed out with the broken ribs. But ultimately what undid me was, uh, my hamstring, like having, I didn't know that I tore it at the time, but I wasn't able to like, move any, it was like all cylinders were attempting to go and they, they had the engine just shut down.

So I made it like, uh, I was on my hundredth and 12th hour. [00:34:00] I made it out and I came back and I, I was about half a mile. Little bit more than half a mile from the getting to the finish line again. And my body just had not, like, it wasn't able to move my, my legs. I, I was like dragging my leg looking like I was a zombie or something.

So, I would do a couple things differently in the next one, and I, I think I could shift things around, had a different outcome. 

Kush: Harvey. You know, the first thing that I think about is that in a typical like long endurance event, when one is looking at, let's say, let's say a marathon or, or 50 miles, or if it's a, if it's a cycling race, 24 hours, 12 hours, or if it's a, in my case, if it's a long day of climbing somewhere in Yosemite, you know, you kind of plan your day and you start at a certain pace, and then you pick it up and you let go.

So you kind of have this like loose strategy for the entire duration of the event. [00:35:00] But this big, big backyard, it seems, it seems like something out of exactly like something out of like a book of fiction where you have to keep this tempo for not just, Hours, but for days, for multiple days.

And the fact that you, barely slept for most of those five days, most of those 400 plus miles, it really does stretch the imagination. So, so how does one even prepare oneself? For an event like this, because all the other big runs that I hear about are, more conventional, where you expect it to essentially be the first man or person at the finish line.

Here you expect it to be the survivor, you know, the last person standing. 

Harvey: Uh, yeah. You, you [00:36:00] want to definitely build up your, your physicality, increase your, your weekly mileage. for this event, it also helps to do some cross training. Uh, it helps to walk to hike because you're not only running all the time, you're also hiking.

So it doesn't hurt you. It actually helps you to like practice, like, you know, go out and hike like once or twice a week. I think also like lifting a little bit of weights like I do, did that a couple days a week. Uh, building up to bigs that probably helped me, uh, tremendously when I was like falling down as all, as well as like holding my body together.

So that was probably a good thing. but also I do other unconventional things like, uh, I just, before we got on this, uh, podcast, I literally went and laid down for four minutes. So I still like train my body a little bit like that, where I just like. Lay down, and, and aim to fall asleep, like for a little short duration.

Just train myself [00:37:00] like that. 

Kush: Oh wow. So you are training yourself. Well that makes so much sense that you're training yourself to get these little snakes of rest. 

Harvey: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. For hours. I'm still doing it like I'm not done. Yeah. but yeah, you definitely want to build your ability to also, uh, take in calories.

So, I mean, to be able to eat and run is not something that everyone feels comfortable doing. but if you can actually build up your body's ability to absorb, uh, fluids and, and calories while you're, really, uh, have a elevated heart rate and all the rest. really have built that up.

So, I mean, I could literally eat like a giant burrito from Chipotle and then just go run as hard as I could, uh, for a mile if, if I wasn't injured right now. yeah, that helps a lot too. Then those are the, those are the basic building blocks. But then, then you have to also build your mind. So the mind [00:38:00] is the most important element and for that it helps to like have experiences.

So, you know, it might be wherever a person's starting at, like, uh. building on those experiences, it might be marathons or 50 Ks or maybe hiking out adventures with their friends and um, or maybe it's a hundred mile race or whatever it is, but those adventures and experiences they build on one another.

And the more you adapt yourself to being able to. Uh, endure, like sleep deprivation like, put your mind somewhere different if you need to when you're feeling fatigued. or, problem solve like with limited time and pressure. You know, those are the things that like, uh, the extra box that helps you to go further too.

You have like a, a lot of ways you could like simulate that soar rice too. tho those are basic, basic ingredients. [00:39:00] And this year I'll finish, uh, was the third to final personnel, but everyone is considered DNF did not finish except for the final round. Right, 

Kush: And talking of the mental preparation, I'm, I'm guessing that, you know, as dedicated as.

You have been with, with embracing all kinds of preparation. Even some of these more, uh, let's say offbeat ones, like taking little, little, like, let's say micro micropower nap in between your day there are probably moments where things don't go per plan and you hit some walls. And I'm curious, you know, when you are in that, like, I don't know, I.

Hour 80 or hour a hundred and things start getting hallucinatory, right. And yeah, just everything is shifting. Like what's the dialogue in your head, Harvey? Like, do you use mantras? [00:40:00] Are there some memories you fall back on? Or maybe it's something just maybe more entirely instinctual. 

Harvey: Yeah. Well I think the why, like it's real important to, I feel have a why and.

We all have whys, maybe sometimes we don't think about 'em, but there's lots of whys we can jump into. Some are smaller and some are larger. Uh, so I have, whys I enjoy, I enjoy just the, the challenge in the game. Part of this race for me is like. Playing the ultimate video game or risk or whatever board game you wanna put yourself into as a human piece.

That, that's like the ultimate game to me, using the human body and mind in like a challenge with like, uh, admirable adversaries. So that, that would be number one. But uh, that would be one of 'em. But also I like being outdoors, so [00:41:00] that's another why I like. the comradery actually amongst the other runners is not always like an adversary.

Sometimes they're like, you know, we, like, you can't go further unless you have someone else there pushing you. So, uh, I really like the comradery amongst the runners and I like, uh, the relationship with my crew. Like, um, I like the. When I push myself in these events, like, uh, it causes me to really delve into like sort of a spiritual, personal self, uh, Eh, examination type of experience too. but also sometimes I chased after wise that I've created. Like for example, this race I created, um, a, uh, fundraiser for my friend David in Haiti. And like for him in Haiti is very tumultuous right now politically, economically. We created a, I've been talking with him and he's been struggling with wanting the world to do, 'cause right [00:42:00] now he's just been like sussing and fishing just to feed himself and his wife.

so we came up with, uh, what are some possible occupations that you could meet for yourself, even given this really challenging environment in Haiti. And we wanna create like, uh. He wanted to create like a get a a three wheel taxi, uh, for Chicago. And so we, we end up working to raise the funds for that and we went way beyond our goal, which was just absolutely stunning.

Uh, and that was super motivating for me because I certainly was not gonna like stop running no matter how tired I was when I know I'm running for my friend David in Haiti. I'm be having broken ribs. Oh, I'm not stopping. Come on. Like, not gonna stop with that. So that, that was motivating. Yeah, that was motivating.

Um, but that was like, that's some extra layer of motivation. But I have other things that motivate me, like, my vegan lifestyle. I like to [00:43:00] like, share that with people and show that it is really possible and not only possible, even you can eat excel even further, uh, per, you know, eating, eating vegan foods.

And I care a lot about animals. So Alan, of course, they are cows. And I see the cows and I like just, I think about the cows out 

Kush: there and I just think about, 

Harvey: you know, so there, there's a lot of things that motivate me, but I feel those whys are what really draws to like go to that next level.

And everyone that's listening, can write on piece of paper. What is it that motivates me with this thing? I wanna do this challenge. And it can be anything personal. It's all, there's, we all have different laws, so that, that's a real big power is the why.

Kush: Harvey did, uh, David manage to acquire his, three wheel, bicycle to be able to earn his livelihood. Okay. 

Harvey: [00:44:00] Right. Well, the short answer is, we are in the process still is. Nothing happens quickly in Haiti. So however 

Kush: sure 

Harvey: we have the means, it is just a matter of like, it is not an easy and plus we, we care about his safety.

Like even having, you know, now, now I haven't said a whole lot since the race about this, and the number one reason is for David's safety. Because, having money in Haiti is an issue. , We're very cautious about how we're going about this process, but yes, we're in the process and we're gonna make it happen.

And it's really only possible because all of amazing people out there that contributed and we are absolutely, and David is absolutely grateful. 

Kush: Beautiful Harvey. I can see that one has to be careful about the way one speaks about raising money in a, in a place where money is, uh, scarce. [00:45:00] And Harvey, I love this, this passion and focus you have for, for helping people understand veganism or.

Or being able to continue being a high performing athlete without eating animals. I'm vegetarian myself, mostly vegan, and I strongly believe in this message, so, what is one thing you would like to share with listeners or maybe one myth you would like to dispel about? Being vegan, eating plant-based foods and continuing to perform at the highest level.

Harvey: Mm-hmm. Yeah, so my mother had a stroke when she was 54 and she was a nurse we had always, uh, prescribed to the traditional American diet [00:46:00] and which was predominantly meat and dairy. And, when she had that stroke back in 1995, it was a real awakening to me because. I had, uh, never had exposure to anyone who was really a vegetarian or vegan at the time until that summer, and I spent a summer in Australia with, uh, a group.

Uh. That was working on like, uh, the rainforest research and there was a, a small group amongst that group that was also vegetarian, that were, who were vegetarian. And it was my first exposure. I was just like really blown away by. Looking at the subgroup within the group that happened to be the healthiest group.

And so I saw it back in 95 when I, when I observed these, this group subgroup within our group that was vegetarian. it was awakening for me. And so when mom had that stroke, is sort [00:47:00] of. Angered me in a way, because even today, which is, you know, we're 30 years later, I still see how much influence the marketing has over, people and, and in America it's, it, it's a challenge because, we just get marketed to nonstop.

And you look at the marketing in, in 90. 7% of it is towards foods that are like, high in cheese, high in pepperoni, sausage, processed meats, burgers, all these things. at the same time we get, uh, told, uh, an endless amount of time is like protein is like the number one most important thing in nutrition.

Regardless of any other thing. And so I certainly, you know, see a value of protein in your food and having a balance. But I never hear anything about [00:48:00] fiber and I don't hear about antioxidants and I don't hear about foods that are anti-inflammatory. And I don't hear about like. Nutrient dense foods. You know, it's like, I don't see like the, the fruits and vegetables like leading the charge in terms of like the advertising.

even in our schools today, the, uh, USDA, uh, what, what the guidelines are coming out with, I mean, beans. Uh, when you look at the Blue Zones, you, they talk about beans as being. The super food and like, you know, how do people, you know, live to be centenarians?

I mean, beans are a huge category, but like when you look at our government standards, beans don't even quantify as the protein, which is ludicrous. So when I go to like Chipotle and they say, I, I said I want brown, brown rice, and I'll take the black beans and sometimes I want the pinot beans too. And they're like, [00:49:00] okay, well what do you want for your protein now?

And I'm like. I got all the protein I want right there. Like, are you kidding me? I could just go run to Canada right now. Like, so are, are you kidding me? Like, seriously, like I mean, sometimes I run a hundred, sometimes I come back from running like 200 miles in, uh, Washington, run Bigfoot 200.

Next thing I'm running school. I don't even feel sore. Like what happened? How did I do that? How are you doing that? You not, are you getting like 200 grams of protein? No, I'm not. I'm eating balanced foods, but you know, I'm getting a lot of nutrient dense. I'm getting a lot of fruits, a lot of vegetables, and yeah, even my, uh, I have a frontage, just some recently it's like it now it's tofu.

We are, we're having like a, a meal with tofu, like curry and tofu It's so food, is that, is that bad for you? Does it have like estrogen? It's like there's all these myths, oh my goodness. So [00:50:00] it, it's like propagated by, a lot of, a lot of it goes into the meat and dairy, industry.

and there's a lot of lobbying the government, but. people only gain a, a, a a percentage of the message and, you know, you could look at what cardiologists suggests. You can like, yeah. It, it is just the, the, the money is not, is not like the, the vegan foods are a small sliver. They're exponentially larger than they were in the nineties, but I see it is just, it's an unbalanced battle.

And when you look at the landscape of what messaging people are getting on daily basis, the messaging is 97%. omnipotent, for the meat and dairy. So it's like people just sit into, like, that's just the status. That's just what is part of [00:51:00] our normal, uh, our norm. And it is just what we're conditioned and, and used to.

So, I mean, I would just encourage people to like branch out, uh, explore some different ethnic foods. You know, make a, you don't have to go all the way vegan if that, you know, maybe it means that you incorporate. One day a week or two days a week, or a couple meals a day, like a day of yours. But I, I could guarantee it.

Uh, and sorry about this. We're going, uh, oh, that's my time. I have to run. I have to run, it is been a blast speaking with you today, and I wish everybody who's following, you know, go after it, uh, whatever your pursuit think about your why.

Go for the unconventional and challenge. What you, you hear are the norm. Yeah. Norms they get spat at it at you.