Young Salt At 60 — Why the Next Chapter Can Be the Boldest

Ageless Athlete Recording - Deborah Hammett
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Kush: [00:00:00] Deborah and I always start off with this question, which is, where are you right now and what did you have for breakfast this morning? Uh, 



Deborah: I am in Newport, Rhode Island in Newport Harbor, and I had two hardboiled eggs for breakfast this morning. 

Kush: Got it. Newport, Rhode Island.

Mm-hmm. I have spent a little bit of time in the northeast. I don't know enough about Rhode Island, but what I can see in your camera in the backdrop, I see the water and I see, this horizon with some trees. Mm-hmm. And I guess what's unique about this image is normally people's background are still.

And yours is mine's moving 

slower 

because, 

Deborah: yeah. Yeah. I have about, 15 to 20 knots of wind out of the south, and I am actually very well protected the [00:01:00] land, south of me. So I'm getting a good amount of protection. but that's is why I am not sailing today because I think it would be a little too much wind for what I wanted to do today.

So, and it wasn't, it wouldn't be in the exact direction that I would want. So I am staying put. 

Kush: Exactly. And, and Debra, you are not in a brick and mortar dwelling. 

Deborah: No. Not by any means. No. 

Kush: So, can you tell us about your residence? 

Deborah: I live on my boat. she is a 36 foot sailboat, a au and she's made in France.

And, um, it's a 2011 boat and all of the lines for sailing this boat run back to the cockpit. So I don't have to leave the cockpit to go run around and manipulate the sales or anything like that unless there's an emergency and something gets stuck or [00:02:00] broken. I can do everything from the cockpit. it has two cabins and a galley, which is my little kitchen and it has a bathroom and shower.

And, I even have a little garage where I keep my folding bike. And, um, my tools, because things always break on a boat. So I'm constantly working on things with my tools. I have my sewing machine on board. This morning I did a little sewing project. 



Kush: in so many ways. Your description sounds like just any home that most of us 

Live in, but in all other ways it's widely different. And it's funny, I am currently also nomadic, oh, I living in a Van 

Uhhuh 

and usually when I interview people and they don't know that, and they learn that during the show that [00:03:00] yeah, that just elicits some questions, I think, I feel like the tables have turned because I think you have just, 

Deborah: yeah, 

Kush: one up me on.

Deborah: I don't have a car, so I have a, I have a little dinghy, a small run, a small motorboat that gets me to shore and that's how I do my grocery shopping and that's how I, go to shore to go for a run. Like this morning I did that. Mm-hmm. 

Kush: Deborah. Deborah, for those of us who may not know you, so How do you describe yourself these days? I, we learned a little bit about you, but who is Deborah? 



Deborah: well, I'm a retired elementary school teacher and principal, and I am from Martha's Vineyard, Massachusetts. And I, I started sailing when I was 60 years old, and now I am a l aboard sailor. And I spend my winters in The Bahamas.



Deborah: I'm also an author because I [00:04:00] decided to write a book about it. the Adventure of Learning to Sail at 60 and sailing solo to The Bahamas and back, where I made a lot of crazy mistakes like the Lucille Ball of the Seas. And I learned some, good lessons, and now I have a little bit more confidence.

So this will be my third trip this winter. And,I still make some mistakes. Yesterday I made a mistake, but I, you know, I keep learning 

Kush: amazing. Deborah, you had a career a lot of Fast would identify with, and you left that career. To do something very different. Actually, right before we started recording, you spoke about how you were continuing to teach, I think when you 

Deborah: Yes, I, I, I moved 

Kush: on.

Deborah: so I was teaching online, while I was sailing. So when I first [00:05:00] started sailing this boat down to The Bahamas, I was teaching about 20 hours a week. And so I would have to, you know, drop the anchor and teach a lesson and then, continue on my way. And it got to the point where.

It was not really always safe for me to do that, which meant that there were times that I had to cancel, uh, because of the weather. And, my students understood that I had very loyal students, but I didn't really like disappointing them. And, I ended up saying, okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna stop doing this.

And then when I was doing nothing, I felt like I was being kind of selfish, just drifting, just sailing the world in my sailboat and not really contributing anything to anybody and not really having much of a sense of purpose. you know, I thought, how can I make a contribution with my teaching skills in a way where I won't have to have a [00:06:00] schedule?

I thought, well, you know, maybe people my age still read books, so maybe I can write a book. Because there are a lot of, um, YouTube channels where people are living aboard their sailboats and they are, you know, spearfishing and, you know, but they're really gorgeous, attractive 30 somethings who are doing this.

, And, and because I'm single-handed, I don't have a camera person to be recording all of these adventures, so it's really just me and I can't hold the camera while I'm doing everything. so I decided to write this book. So I wrote a book called Young Salt at 60, and the purpose is really to inspire retired adults to, you know, take on something really big and really different and really new that they've never done before.

That a lot of people might think, well, I can't do that because I haven't been a sailor my whole life. Or I can't do that because I haven't been a runner my whole [00:07:00] life. I can't do an ultra marathon, for example. But the truth is that if we look at life from the age of ages of 60 to 90, with the same ambition that we had when we were looking at life from the ages of 30 to 60, it would make a big difference.

I think so many people think that once they retire from their big career, that's it. They're retired. if you move on to have a whole nother big chapter, the most exciting chapter, then then chances are you're gonna live longer and live healthier. So that's what I'm doing, 

Kush: ever. I love that much to learn from you here. And, uh, you've given me some things to, to talk to you about. Actually, one thing you just said, which is 60 to 90 might be the most exciting chapter. That's, that's certainly, a big claim. So why would [00:08:00] this be the most exciting chapter? 

Deborah: Oh, well, I think this is my most exciting chapter because, I am really pushing myself through fear and I am forced to solve problems where I don't have a lot of experience.

I need to just be able to look at it and analyze it and figure out what kind of a hack I can come up with. To make it work, because when I'm sailing solo, if something gets stuck or if something gets broken, I'm all, I have, I don't, I have the tools that I have on board and the supplies and spare parts that I have on board, but that's it.

how am I going to get through it? Thank goodness I do have, satellite, I have starlink and there are YouTube videos about how to [00:09:00] resolve a lot of these, problems that come up when I'm sailing. So, so that's lucky, but when you're in the moment, you don't really have time to, to watch a YouTube video and, and figure things out.

You have to use your intuition. 

Kush: Deborah, one thing you said that makes me a little bit curious. You were teaching for a while after you had transitioned to living on a boat. Mm-hmm. And. if your students would ask you about your location and what you were doing.

Deborah: They did, they did. But really, our focus was on their academic goal, and, and children, as you know, are easily distracted. So I tried to keep, the lesson's very professional. But, you know, at the beginning of the lesson, I would, I would let them know where I was and I might show it to them on the map.

But, I also [00:10:00] worked with adults professional, adults who were non-native English speakers who had been working mostly for American companies and had become team leaders and managers, and they needed to make presentations. And so I was helping those adults with their presentation skills, their leadership skills, and their English skills.

so I was doing a lot of that too. 

Kush: You know, when you talked about teaching kids, and I don't know what subjects you were teaching, but in my mind I was imagining, imagining you teaching like geography or something like that, and then just tracing your, your location and helping kind of 

Yeah.

bring in the students into your life a little bit, but sounds like that was not quite the case. I was, 

Deborah: I was able to do that, a little bit, but mostly I was working with them on reading and writing. and, but at one point I had a family from Japan come to visit [00:11:00] and go sailing with me, so that was pretty cool.

Kush: Deborah, most people listening to the show are likely not sailors. I, I don't think they are. Mm-hmm. 

And many of us have been on boats. Many of us have spent time by the water, in the water, but I don't know if any of our, any of my experiences can really capture what it might look like to be on a boat by yourself.

So perhaps you can take us into a moment from your time, from your day that really is like to be out there on your own. 



Deborah: at one point I was in The Bahamas and I was crossing a 60 mile. Expanse between islands [00:12:00] and I was 30 miles out and my engine began to overheat. So sa what you might not know about sailing is that, when you have to do a 60 mile crossing, a lot of sailboats are also motoring.

So my sails were up, but it was a very light wind, because it was, you know, relatively calm and I wanted it to be good weather. I wanted it to be calm and safe. 'cause it was a long way to go and my engine overheated and I was left to my own devices. I had to, figure out what the problem was and fix the engine while I was sailing with the sail up, 30 miles offshore.

No radio contact, no nothing. no cell service, nothing. So. luckily I had taken an online diesel engine class, and I knew that, I knew I had to check the impeller and I had to take [00:13:00] apart the water pump that pumps the, the sea water through the engine to cool it because there had been some, there was something wrong.

It wasn't cooling. So I took it apart and I replaced something called the impeller, which is a little paddle wheel that pushes the water through the engine. But I had to do that while the boat was sailing. And I'm, my head is upside down. I'm getting kind of seasick. It was, you know, scary, but I did it.

Kush: That sounds challenging. Wait a second. Did you, not have access to YouTube or starlink? 

Deborah: So that was my first crossing where I had forgotten to turn on the offshore starlink. service. Got it. So you can only, you can only have starlink shore if you turn on the offshore service when you're close enough to shore, because as soon as you get more than 10 miles from shore, you don't have [00:14:00] service anymore.

So you can't change your plan and get service. So there I was too far away to change the plan and I had forgotten to do it before I left. So that was a pretty dumb mistake that I will not make again. So 

Kush: was it quite scary? 

Deborah: Yeah, it was scary, definitely. Yeah, definitely. 

Kush: And were able to get things figured out pretty quickly, or were there moments where you felt like, goodness, maybe I'll have to get rescued, or this could end badly.

Deborah: I just didn't,I couldn't imagine I had to solve it. I had to solve it because there was no, the only other answer would be just to wait and, you know, continue wait for the wind to pick up. And I mean, I could have gone, I could have waited and I, and just used sail power to get to shore, but I was trying to get to shore during a calm and before a storm, [00:15:00] so I didn't wanna be, without, I, I didn't wanna be out there for too long as I was making this crossing.

I didn't wanna be out there in the storm. 

Kush: I think. That sounds challenging. Indeed. I, I'm just drawing an analogy to, let's say being in a automobile and being stuck on the side of a highway and not having access to cell service or aaa. I mean, that itself can be quite scary if it, if you're really out in the middle of nowhere.

Deborah: Yeah. 

Kush: But then, we know that we can usually find somebody passing by who might stop and give us help, or they, or basically like, let's say land life is kinda geared up for meeting those kinds of, unexpected situations. But, being on a boat, you really are out.

And if you are in a, not in an area that's not so busy, you might, you might be out there for a while before resting [00:16:00] happens. 

Deborah: Exactly. and also be pushed off course. You know, you can, because if you don't have the ability to, keep your boat on course, you might not even, be in a, in an area where people go by.

Kush: That's correct. That's correct. You have to be in the right lane. Yes. You know, you are not following dotted zebra lines. Right. You are following these, these courses and these routes, which can change as well based on conditions. 

Mm-hmm. 

Exactly. Deborah, , taking a step back, so just trying to understand your journey a little bit.

You were a teacher and a principal, and I'm guessing that this changed to move your life onto a boat. It didn't just happen overnight. You likely had been working towards it. tell us what drew you into this idea, aspiration, maybe this dream. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. to [00:17:00] get to where you are today. 

Deborah: okay.

So I retired and, did some traveling. Like most people who retire, they wanna do more traveling, that sort of thing. And I traveled to, Southeast Asia, and I was there for, I was there during COVID, which was great actually, because I could, the beaches were empty, the streets were empty, the hotels were empty.

I could name my price wherever I went. It was lovely. And, but I had to run, I had to come back because my visa was running out and my US passport was also about to expire. So I came back from Malaysia to Massachusetts, renewed my passport. I discovered that I could go to the Dominican Republic because they have an overstay program, and I could stay there for as long as I wanted, as long as I paid the tax on the way back out.

So I went to the Dominican Republic, and I, I found. Beautiful little town. There were very few Americans [00:18:00] there, mostly French expats and German expats. And I loved it. And I loved the Dominican people, the Dominican culture, the beaches were gorgeous. And, I met this one guy from Vermont and he convinced me to go to Vermont with him.

And we. Began watching these YouTube videos of people who were sailing on their catamarans in the tropics. And we thought, wow, you know, that's really the way to see beaches when you have your own boat and you can go to whatever beach you want and you can go to these uninhabited islands and you're not, in a herd of tourists.

And, so we just got really into it and we started taking sailing lessons and we ended up buying this boat, together. And we, learned to sail this boat on Lake Champlain. And then,the long and short of it is he lost interest in sailing and. I [00:19:00] gained more interest in sailing because I would stay on the boat during the week while he was working and during the week I would sail single-handed, which I really started to feel pretty capable doing, and I really enjoyed it a lot.

I loved being out on the water alone. So, he and I went our separate ways and I bought the boat from him and I decided to equip it and sail it down, the Champlain Canal and into the Hudson River, and then into New York City, and then along the coast, all the way down to Florida, and then across to The Bahamas, and then all the way down the islands to, Georgetown, which is in the southern part of The Bahamas.

Kush: Well, one thing certainly sounds smart. anytime you start something audacious, having a team or at least maybe one other person can help break down things a little bit. And [00:20:00] sounds like that was great for you to have that partnership. 

Deborah: Yeah, we got, we, we really got into it. We decided, you know, and I, I still think that, you know, I go to Marinas and I see a lot of boats sitting there on the docks empty.

Nobody's using them. And some boats sit for a whole summer season up here in Massachusetts on the dock, and they never even get sailed or, you know, they, they get put in the water in the spring and they get taken out in the fall and people might use them two or three weekends and that's it. And a boat is very expensive.

And, finding a place to keep it as expensive and if you're gonna have it, use it. So my feeling is, I just wanted to go all in with this and. And, be able to go where I wanted to go, have my belongings, everything I own is on [00:21:00] board, and, and I can be as free as I wanna be. 

Kush: Deborah, tell us what might have been maybe the most, challenging bit of this whole process of, let's say, moving from land to sea.

Deborah: Laundry. Definitely laundry. 

Kush: Okay. Yeah. what about the process of just, just, Well, for example, uh, you know, a part of me harbors this ambition of also living and sailing a boat at some point, because honestly, it would allow me to go and surf in planet places that I couldn't access easily.

It would also allow me to live in a spot where I'm not encumbered by, let's say, traffic, traffic laws and zoning laws, right? Mm-hmm. So it, it, it is, uh, such a, yeah, it is a kind of a seductive like idea 

Deborah: uhhuh, 

Kush: but I don't even know where to get started, Yes, there are [00:22:00] YouTube videos out there, and yes, one can just start looking for boats.

Mm-hmm. So just in that process of figuring out what was the, was it like the, the, the purchase journey? Was it understanding how to keep the boat in running order? Was it learning about like maritime laws? Was the learning about like. 

Deborah: Well, for me, for me, the biggest challenge was the mechanical stuff that, because I, I, you know, I was a teacher.

I know a lot about reading and writing and language and I know a lot about, leadership and things that have nothing to do with anything mechanical. you know, I had a facilities manager who did dealt with all the mechanical stuff at the school. so this was a big learning curve for me.

But in terms of learning how to sail, we went to the sailing center in Lake Champlain and we borrowed little tiny [00:23:00] boats. Little sailboats, um, dinghy sailing is what they call it. And we had a, we took out a four 20, which is a very popular small sailboat. And, you know, we started, the guy at the sailing center showed us how to put the sails up and how to use it.

And we went out and it was really challenging. And at the end of that day I was like, I don't know if I really think I can do this. And, but we did it again and again and, got better at it. And then we went online and we did a search and we found, in The Bahamas there was a place that offered, American Sailing Association certification classes.

And the American Sailing Association has, these standard classes that are offered all over the country and also in The Bahamas. So we went, and we were able to get four [00:24:00] certifications in one week on a catamaran. So we did this week long course and the instructor was fantastic. He made sure that each one of us did everything.

That needed to be done on the boat. 

And as we were comparing boats and shopping online for boats at, the Yacht World website, for example, we were learning, a lot of details. About, about boats and how they work. And so that was very helpful. And then, and then when we actually bought a boat, we had a survey, so it's an inspection where a certified surveyor comes and goes through every single part of the boat and, tells us about the condition of every single part of the boat.

And that was a great learning experience too. We had a wonderful surveyor and looked at, and [00:25:00] we at that point had looked at a, a lot of different boats. So 

Kush: how likely, like a home inspection. 

Deborah: Way more detailed than a home inspection way, way, way more detailed. and then, we were at a marina.

We had the boat at a marina and the marina staff, the kids that worked the fuel dock, and they would help us tie up when we came in. and the people that did services at the marina, there was an engine service guy, there was an electrical service guy. And they all helped me a lot when I was single handing.

And I had to, I had to tip them because I wanted them to come running. When I came in, I, I said, I would say, you know, I'm coming in, uh, can somebody help me tie up? And, I needed them to know that they needed to giddy up and be there for me. because I was alone and, and, you know, and then it got to the point where I had [00:26:00] them just stand there and watch me leave the dock by myself.

And, you know, I would say, don't touch anything. I wanna try to do it by myself. You know? and I gradually learned to come and go from the dock by myself, which was, which was really important. and they were really, and then I told them I was gonna head south, and they were really on my team. They were like, yay.

You know, she's going, and, you know, we, not, not, yay, well, maybe they were relieved I was leaving, but, but they were pretty excited and kind of impressed because not a lot of people, do that alone. And certainly not a lot of new sailors. I felt like they were really wonderful and they really, they gave me a lot of confidence.

Kush: Excellent. And yeah, you sought out help and maybe this is a lesson, you know, if you need help, ask for it and people will often respond. 

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 

Yeah. Yeah. Just being a beginner again. [00:27:00] And I hear you on the mechanics part. I mean, I feel like yes. I also don't have a mechanics thumb,uh, it's, it's not one of my guess as well, so I, yeah, I certainly find that bit intimidating about, taking on something like what you're doing, what otherwise, what might have been, again, one of

your messiest or maybe most humbling moments as you were learning to adopt this new lifestyle. 

Deborah: wow, there were so many. so many. you know, there were a lot of times when I would come into a dock and it wasn't pretty. I, you know, I would be coming in sideways and I wouldn't be able to get control of the boat and I'd be worried that I was gonna hit another boat or hit the dock and, you know, things like that happened.

but luckily not nothing ma no major issues. 

trying to think. 

one time, I, I borrowed [00:28:00] a boat from the sailing center by myself and they didn't let me take a four 20, which had two sails. They said, you can take a, a boat with one sail called a laser. And I went out and it was a pretty windy day and the boat capsized it, it, when I tried to turn the boat, it flipped over upside down and I, wow.

Yeah, and I had my life vest on and I had my phone in the pocket of the life vest and I figured out how to get the boat to flip back up again. I pulled down on the center board and the boat flipped back up again. And then I got back on I, you know, I climbed back on, I was on my way again, but then I still had to turn and then I.

I turned, but every time I turned, the boat flipped over again. So, oh my goodness, this ha this was happening like, maybe four or five, six times. And I finally, I was like, I can't, I'm not gonna be able to get myself back to shore. So luckily [00:29:00] I had my iPhone in my, in my, uh, life jacket. And so I had to call, I had to call the, the sailing center and ask them to come and tow me.

And, and it was so embarrassing. Oh, God. And I said, I'm never doing this again. 



Kush: I mean, the idea of getting caught, maybe this is irrational, but like the idea of having your, uh, your vehicle like up size and. Yeah, that just seems scary. but, but mainly, I, I didn't know you, I didn't know that there was a way you could just, handle one part of the boat and flip it back up.

Deborah: Well, yeah, I mean, these, these are little boats, you know? I mean, you go surfing, right? So the surfboard gets flipped all the time, and then you get back up and you get back on it. So these, these little boats are, like giant surfboards. They're not, they're not like, where you have everything you own on board, like this boat, 

but they're good boats to learn about, learn about the wind and [00:30:00] how to, how the sail has to be in relationship to the wind in order to get the most power out of the wind, to push you in the right direction. the basics of how the wind moves the boat are, are best to learn with those little boats.

Yeah. 

Kush: And Deborah, you talked about You mentioned, you know, laundry. That sounds like, oh yeah, that sounds, it wasn't the first thing that came to my mind, but, uh, yeah. Do you have to just, you know, dock? So, 

Deborah: so I do my laundry. I, I have to bring it to a laundromat, I put it in my dinghy and I try to find places, where I am within walking distance of a laundromat.

From the dinghy dock to a laundromat where I can do laundry. in The Bahamas, I don't really care so much because all I'm [00:31:00] wear, all I'm really wearing is a swimsuit or like shorts and I can just, you know, rinse them out and put them on the lifelines. And it's not, you're not in, in Anchorage with a lot of fancy people.

It's really just like very laid back and you can put your laundry out to dry and nobody cares. But, here in New England, in, in Newport, I'm not hanging my laundry out to dry. No, it's not. 

Kush: Are you able to combine errands though? Like, can you go and do laundry at the same time? Maybe also pick up groceries?

Deborah: Yeah, well for groceries, I usually call in an order, to have them delivered to the dingy doc. So about every two weeks I make a big order on Instacart and I have it delivered, um, to a dingy doc that is, you know, where the, where the parking lot is close enough, where I can just [00:32:00] move the bags into the dingy and then I, I drive them to the boat and move them onto the boat.

um, so the grocery part is, that's how I manage that. 

Kush: Okay. maybe Deborah, take us into a day. I'm sure, every day could be very different depending on where you are, what you're doing. But maybe can you describe to us the routine of a typical day? Maybe just. So us, we get I an idea of what it is.

Deborah: the, we, the weather will always be determining whether it's a go day or not. today was not really a go day. It was, it was kind of on the cusp. I could have gone today, but I sailed. I sailed six hours yesterday. To get to Newport and I, and the wind was gonna be really pretty heavy, like on the heavier end of what I like to sail in, today.

So, I, I didn't go because I also wanted to go for a run. So I woke up this morning and I had [00:33:00] my coffee and I went for a nice long run. I took the dinghy to shore. I had to find a place where I could tie up and leave the dinghy and I locked it because it looked like it's kind of a big-ish city here compared to what I'm usually, where I usually am.

And I, uh, and I went for a long run. I came back and I came back to the boat and I had a lot of hot water because I ran my engine yesterday. And, so the engine heats the water. So I was able to take a nice long shower and wash my hair and everything. So that was lovely. and then I, oh, and then I did a sewing project.

So I have my sewing machine on board, and I had a curtain curtains get, you know, everything gets kind of moldy and damp because it's in the, in the wa in the water environment. It's just very humid all the time and a lot of salt in the air and everything. So I had a curtain [00:34:00] that was getting kind of, that, it was, it was moldy and gross.



Deborah: I have fabric on board, so I sewed a new curtain, for that particular, window. Today and put that, installed that. and then what did I do? Oh, and then I made an Instagram post for my Instagram account, showing a really crazy mistake that I made yesterday when I was sailing. I got, I got my lines tangled and I had to get them untangled because it would've been a really big problem.

one of the lines was the line that holds the main sail up. And if I hadn't have been able to get it untangled, I would never have been able to get the main sail down, unless I cut the line. And that would've been a really big problem 'cause I, it would've gone up through the ma, the very top of the mast.

luckily I was in an empty bay and there was no, there weren't [00:35:00] any other boats around me and it wasn't. Stormy conditions or anything. So I was able to put the boat on autopilot and spend half an hour untangling these lines. but it was pretty, it was pretty crazy. 

Kush: Had you, had you untangled these lines before, or was this another one of those like, learning moments?

It was a 

Deborah: very unusual situation. it was a, it was such an unusual situation. 



what I'm sensing here is that one needs to acquire some foundational skills. Sailing before, before one embarks on this. Not just foundational skills, maybe even a bit of experience because you know, you don't wanna be, you don't want to have gone through the pieces of acquiring a boat, all that, all of that.

Kush: Maybe like your port,your export noted and then suddenly realize that this is not the thing for you. 

but other than that sounds like one can once one has acquired those fundamentals, [00:36:00] there are many things. One is able to learn on the go. Like it might be humbling, it might be, you know, it just might feel, uh, very intense in the moment.

But you can overcome most of those things. So I think a lot of us get sty. In life, and maybe I'm may drawing a bigger metaphor here because they're like, oh my God, I don't wanna start this massive thing because I just don't have all the 2,500 things, you know, dialed in. Mm-hmm. But I think what we're learning from you is like, as long as you get maybe some of those basics locked in, you can just go on.

Deborah: I think you have to get the basics locked in, but I think you also have to devote a lot of time to talking to other sailors and,and watching sailing videos and reading about [00:37:00] sailing and, looking carefully at other boats and the way they anchor and the way they maneuver and, going sailing with other sailors on their boat.

Having good sailors come on my boat and sail with me. in order for the insurance company to ensure us, we had to have a captain come on board and sail with us and then sign off that we were capable of managing the boat. you know, it was, it was, um, it was a test to see whether we were insurable and we passed the test, which was great.



Kush: And yes. Also sounds like not only are there communities of helpful people, but there are all these resources available 

Mm-hmm. 

In, in this world of sailing to allow, because there many, many, you know, there are many, let's say careers, [00:38:00] vocations, whatnot, where the, the learning curve or whatnot is either, it's either very steep or it's kind of fenced in.

Mm-hmm. And it sounds like once, once we commit to, again, getting into the world of sailing there, there's a lot of infra available. Yeah, it really 

Deborah: is. And, and also, you know, the social media. there, there are Facebook groups and Instagram,sites that, I mean, I follow, I follow hundreds of sailors on Instagram and they follow me and, and you know, I read through comments about certain situations and I read the whole, you know, the whole, list of comments and differing perspectives on things.

And it, it's really good because it helps me, understand what to, before something happens, you know, I'm always trying to get ahead of what might happen. 



Kush: [00:39:00] yeah. Yeah. Again, the internet comes to the rescue and Yes. It sounds like you've been savvy about, Just leaning into that resource.

Again, like, you know, you left this life behind, I'm guessing, you know, you, you spend years inside schools in, in structure and routine and now your life is just mm-hmm. Totally different. Yeah. Do you think you were prepared? 



Deborah: , as prepared as I, as I could have been, I, as, I don't know,I have a friend who has been preparing for years, like five years to do what I did, and she doesn't feel like she's ready yet.

And I'm trying to say, well, you know, at some point you have to just rip off the bandaid and do it because you're not gonna have the answer to every. Challenging situation [00:40:00] that happens at sea. if it hasn't happened to you and you don't know what's gonna happen, you can't get ahead of every single thing.

So when things happen, you just have to try to keep a level head and analyze the situation and, you know, use the tools that you have access to to solve the problem. And then when you do that, you're gonna learn, you know, you can't help but learn. I mean, I've learned so much about my engine and my lines and my sails and my, shackles and cleats and you know, how to tie things and, just everything I've learned about, you know, my, my water system and my,the water system is a big one and my fuel system and my, uh.

My electrical system because I have power on the boat because I have 800 watts of solar and 400 amps [00:41:00] of lithium batteries. And that gives me the power that I need for my starlink, for my refrigerator to power my devices, and to start my engine battery and also my lights, you know. but you know, I, I know about how to use the VHF radio and how to use the chart plotter 

and understand all the channel markers, all the different buoys and the colors of the buoys and the shapes of the buoys. and also the, the rules for navigation. Like who has the right of way, which vessel is the, we call it the stand on vessel, and which one needs to give way.

really important information that, I had to learn 

Kush: you were a teacher for a long time, so you were certainly in the industry of education and learning. 

so 

yeah. So 

there's that side of sailing, but on the other side, I'm sure there have been just [00:42:00] these incredible moments and opportunities that have come your way because you happen to be on a boat.

Yeah. Maybe you can take us to maybe a moment or something that you do that makes all of that learning, all of that uncertainty. Uncertainty and, and toil just completely worth it. 

Deborah: I mean, yesterday I was sailing and it was so beautiful out there. It, there were very few boats on the water because, you know, it's the end of the season here in New England.

And it was a weekday and it was just lovely. The weather was perfect, the clouds were spectacular. The sunset, you know, last night was spectacular. And the, um. And even the night before, you know, and I got to go exploring around a harbor that I had [00:43:00] never been in before, even though it was pretty close to Martha's Vineyard.

I had never been in there before in my boat. And, I was able to go out in the little boat in the dinghy and go exploring and, see all these really neat little coves and, private islands. And it was really, it was gorgeous. And I just felt like I'm so lucky to be able to do this on a daily basis. I see magnificent beauty on a daily basis without even having to like, really make an effort.

Yeah. Um, you know, it's, it's kind of like, you know, my commute from shore. Is spectacularly gorgeous. so that's great. And you know, the other thing too is that I got fuel yesterday at a dock and I had to bring my boat to a dock. And, I was able to do it with confidence. And every [00:44:00] time I do it with confidence and it goes, it feels easy.

getting on the dock felt easy, leaving the doc felt easy every time it feels easy. I feel like I'm just one step closer toward being really capable and competent with this, because a lot of times it's really stressful, 

Kush: not gonna lie. Right on. And, and I'm guessing, yeah, that's, you know, beyond just the natural beauty.

that's also just being able to, gain confidence in one self. Sufficiency. I mean, that's also so heartening and empowering. 

Right? Mm-hmm. Because, 

you know, you didn't just, sign up on a cruise ship to get these views. You have earned. Earned,each and every one of those sunrises.

Yeah. And, and, and sunsets. 

Deborah: Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. You know, and there are definitely challenging times when I [00:45:00] really wanna give up. I went to Boston to see my kids recently, and I came back to Martha's Vineyard. I had left my boat on Martha's Vineyard and to get to Boston, I had taken the tourist ferry boat, and I came back on the tourist ferry boat and it was late at night.

And we had been in Boston traffic and I, well, it wasn't late at night, it was sun, it was just about sunset time. And I was trying to get my little boat. I was getting in my little boat to go back to my boat. before it got dark and my engine, my little boat engine wouldn't start. And no matter what I did, it wouldn't start.

there were a few things that I knew to check inside the engine cover and it wasn't working, working. And so I had to start rowing. And I had parked my, I had anchored my big boat pretty far away because I had gone away for a few days. And, and so it was a really long row and [00:46:00] I knew I wasn't gonna make it before dark.

Deborah: And, but I was, you know, rowing and I was so tired and I was just so, I can't do this. I can't do this anymore, you know? And somebody came along and gave me a tow and towed me to my boat, which was great. And then the next day I was able to, to road to shore, which was closer. And, uh, a mechanic, a friend of a friend came and, took my engine, met me on shore, took my engine to his shop, and, uh, and, and got a new carburetor.

That's what it needed. But, you know, it's just, you know, it's not like breaking down on the side of the road and being able to call an Uber. 

Kush: yeah. No, certainly. and Deborah, like, I think it's challenge that I find when I'm thinking about this, and maybe people listening to Will as well, is, okay, so not to be rude, but you're saying like, just this friendly, [00:47:00] sociable person, right?

And 

Deborah: I can be 

Kush: now. Yeah, for sure, for sure. But you know, I don't know what the current modern image of a sailor is, but you moved from, let's say, more, a more mainstream lifestyle if there's such a thing to this lifestyle. And I think, I think what I'm, what I'm wondering is how did you adapt to just being on your own?

I believe you are on your, you're doing this thing on your own, right? 

Deborah: Well, you know, as scary as it is sometimes, I really like being alone, and I will tell you why, because a school principal and a mom, I was a school principal and a mom, and I never had any, I never had a minute alone. Never. I mean, it was always somebody wanted to talk to me.

You know, it was like, like [00:48:00] I, I had a hundred teachers in my school and, and you know, everybody would say, have you got a minute? Have you got a minute? And then it would just be like a line of people all day long wanting to talk to me about problems. And, they, and, and the solutions were often very politically loaded and it was, it was difficult.

It was a difficult job managing that many people. you know, there were a thousand children and a hundred staff, including secretaries, bus drivers, custodians,nurses, you know, everybody. you know, the, and then the parents, you know, that was a huge thing too. So, being alone on a sailboat is just dandy after all that.

Kush: Yeah, you had a very different life and I can sense how you have, earned this resite, maybe the solitude. But 

would 

you recommend [00:49:00] this like a solo, uh, cen laal for like others who haven't, you know, who haven't had your life? Maybe they've been working in desks Yeah. You know, by themselves.

Deborah: I, I will say that, zoom helps me a lot, so I am able to stay connected. I'm an alcoholic and I haven't had a drink in 33 years, and I attend. Meetings with my sober friends online on Zoom and I'm able to stay connected to my community that way, and I am able to be of service that way also.

And that, that really grounds me and it gives me a sense of purpose. So I enjoy that. you know, I'm able to connect with my kids easily because with the technology, FaceTime videos and, and you know, texting all the time and, so it's really, it's not like I'm, I, even though I've been alone all day today, I've probably talked to 10 people [00:50:00] today.

No more than that. Right. I've probably talked to 30 people today. Yeah, 

Kush: sure, sure. 

Deborah: So 

Kush: do you think though, okay, a contrary end question. Do you think though, that you could have made this possible without. The constant availability of the internet. 



Deborah: that's another thing about, about learning to sail now compared to and, and sailing solo to The Bahamas and back in 2025 compared to doing it, 50 years ago.

Because now I have a chart plotter that's like a little video game. I see a picture of where my boat is compared to all the land around it. I can see my compass heading. I can see how far away the other boats are, and I can tap on them on the screen and see how fast they're going. I can see which way the wind is blowing.

I have all sorts of weather apps. I [00:51:00] have an anchor alarm that's gonna wake me up in the middle of the night and let me know if my boat is, moving too, too far away from the anchor. I have all sorts of, safety things that, you know, that people just didn't have before.

radar, to, for seeing where the thunderstorms are and you know, just tons of tools that make it possible for somebody with as little experience as me to, to do this. 

Kush: And absolutely, I mean, you have the technology that allows you to, to sustain this, but then the same technology also allows you to sustain all.

Personal connections that even though you are physically alone, you're not, not, maybe as l you're not lonely in the same way. Again, somebody 50 years ago 

So I think another thing, yeah, we are learning from you is, [00:52:00] is that technology has allowed now the ability to pursue lifestyles. Vocations that maybe even five years ago would, would seem impossible. Right. Would seem so difficult. And I think maybe this is such an important lesson. I don't know if you have any comments on this one where, people are contemplating, Hey, what should we do post retirement?

I mean, there's a lot more than taking cruises or, or, or learning how to golf. Right. Because you can go and do like some pretty darn rad things. 

Deborah: I was pretty much a digital nomad. before COVID I was teaching online and I was teaching online in Asia. And so I just had my laptop wherever I went and I was using, if they didn't have wifi, I was using my phone hotspot as wifi.

But I had, wherever I went, I had enough of a connection to be able to work. And then when CO hit [00:53:00] everybody. became familiar with Zoom and, you know, so then, then there was access to everybody, um, not just my students. And so that was good. And, you know, but I was already, I was already doing the nomadic thing pretty much before I got into sailing.

So this is the nomadic thing on water. And basically my boat is just like a tiny house. it's set up the same way as all the little cute little tiny houses that I see in the magazines. You know, I have, I have, uh, two bedrooms and I have, you know, a little sitting area. I've got a, right now I'm sitting in the cockpit.

This is, I have a dinner table out here. And, you know, it's just,it's a tiny house basically. And, um. And it's perfectly comfortable for one person. So if, if I had a, if I had another person with me on board all the time, I think it might get a [00:54:00] little tight. 

Kush: Yeah. and in that case, you know, I can upgrade to a bigger van or, and you can upgrade to a bigger boat if, if, if it comes to it.

Deborah: Uhhuh. 

Kush: so beyond the, you know, the other, other,technicalities we have covered, like what is, what are the financial outlay of being able to do what you're doing? 

Deborah: you know, you can buy a boat. There's a boat for every budget. Okay, so I have a 19-year-old friend who, she came on board and sailed with me for a little while last spring.

It was my second trip down to The Bahamas, and I needed to get from North Carolina to Florida very quickly because it was very, very cold. And, she wanted to come with me. So I brought this girl with me and she was so excited and she. Loved it and went back and saved her [00:55:00] pennies and bought herself a sailboat and lived on her sailboat all summer long.

And she had to row her. She didn't have an engine on her little boat, you know, she bought a very little sailboat for I wanna say $2,500. And, she rode her little boat out to that sailboat every day. And she was working three jobs on shore and, uh, and she made it happen you can do it on very little money.

Most people, you know, my age are, interested in having something that's a little bit more comfortable, you know, than a, because her sailboat was only 23 feet or something. So, um, a lot of people, families do it and they, they have their kids, you know, they might have three or four kids even living on board on a catamaran.

So a catamaran, is, you know, a [00:56:00] sailboat with two hulls, and it has, most of them have four cabins. and most of them have, um, three or four bathrooms also. So, It. And then of course there's mega yachts, right? So the billionaires are able to, have mega yachts with, you know, a full staff who take care of driving the boat and docking boat and everything.

And all they have to do is walk onto the boat or have their helicopter fly them onto the boat. 

Kush: Yeah. 

Deborah: so there, there really is, um, there is a boat for every budget and, but you know, if you wanna be able to go places, you have to have a budget to maintain the boat. So you have pay for boat insurance, which is pretty expensive.

And then you also have to budget for at least 10% of the value of the boat every year for, [00:57:00] maintenance. That's just fixing things. and I think that's conservative. I think it's, I think it's really more like 15%. But, yeah, fixing things and cleaning things and, having things, 

Kush: these are costs, when you are quite handy yourself or these are costs when you are outsourcing to others?

Deborah: Um, no, these are, this is when you're handy yourself. 

Kush: Oh, wow. So let's say if your boat is, uh, I, I have no idea, but let's say if your boat is like a hundred, I dunno, 200 K, 200 KI dunno if it's a cheap boat or an expense. If it's a 200 K boat, then you are, uh, accounting for 20 to 30 K in just basic maintenance.



Deborah: yeah, definitely, definitely. 

Kush: Okay. 

Deborah: Because you need to have your engine, the engine needs to be serviced. there's always things that break that need to be redone. you know, wear and tear the u the ultraviolet [00:58:00] rays of the sun and the salt, moisture in the air creates corrosion.

And, you know, there's, there's an awful lot of things that break sales rip. And you need to buy a new sale. A new sale is $5,000 easy. you know, the, the dinghy engine needs to be serviced. You know, I just spent $800 on that, you know, so it's, you do have to, be able to, have that kind of money budgeted for when stuff happens, you know, like, who knows what's next?

I, I, you know, my refrigerator has been running fine. I haven't had to replace it. It's been running for two and a half years, but if I have to replace it, it's gonna be a few thousand dollars. And the same thing for the little mechanism that raises and lowers my anchor chain. 

Kush: Right, right. [00:59:00] It sounds a little 

Deborah: clunky right now, and I'm thinking, oh man, how much is this gonna cost to replace?

The parts don't cost. Well, the parts are expensive, but having somebody do the work, that's what's really expensive. In New England, they get $175 an hour just to do the simplest task. 

Kush: I, I'm wondering because you, you are able to sail overseas and you, I know this is kind of a funny question, but. like the Baha Bahamas, for example, maybe labor is there, you can get some things done in places where 

Deborah: yes and no.

I, first of all, you can't get parts in The Bahamas, so that is very difficult. So you really have to bring spare parts with you because having parts sent from the United States to The Bahamas is very complicated. Their mail system is very, unreliable. [01:00:00] um, so that's challenging. Yes, you can get labor in places like the Dominican Republic, for example, and the Caribbean.

You can get labor cheaper, but is it it, is it gonna be skillful labor, and Right. I mean, in an emergency, yes. That is what you have to do. Um, but you know, if you're in The Bahamas and, and something you know, significantly complicated goes wrong, then you have to go to Naau to take care of it. but you probably wouldn't even wanna do that if you could get yourself back to Florida.

Kush: mean net, Debra. Yes. There, there's some real costs to adopting this lifestyle, but if one is comparing it to maintaining a residence and a lifestyle in a place Yeah. As posh as Moth has veneered, it does seem like, it does seem like that are, uh, real savings here because you know the boat is both your home 

Deborah: Yes.

[01:01:00] And your 

Kush: mode of transport. 

Deborah: Yes. 

Kush: Do you see more and more people around you, let's say, retirees, middle Ages, who are. Taking on to this last one, I'm just wondering how much of an outlier might you be? 

Deborah: I think when I am, when I'm cruising and now, you know, it's kind of a tribal thing, you know, we're a group of nomads that go south for the winter and north for the summer, and we all have these boat cards and we exchange boat cards.

So we meet each other and we keep our eyes on each other and, you know, we're able to bump into each other. Like, I might see somebody I know here in Newport and then I might not see them again until North Carolina, and then I might see them again in Georgia and then again in The Bahamas. you know, you just see certain boats along the way and, um, and you just, start chatting with people and, and, you know, you're, we become [01:02:00] kind of a community,like a little subculture of, nautical nomads and, uh, yeah.

And so that part is good. you know, and we help each other definitely help each other. but it's challenging for sure to do the regular things. Like, for example, having a mailing address. You can't have something sent to your boat, you know? So you have to try to figure out where you're gonna be and who you can ask in that location to receive your mail and hold it for you so that when you, oh, stop.

You 

Kush: telling me that Amazon doesn't have boats that will deliver? Uh, 

Deborah: not yet. Good. Not yet. But the drone services coming. 

Kush: yeah, yeah. When the drones, 

Deborah: when the drones start dropping packages, they should be able to drop a package on my boat. 

That's right. 

Kush: That's 

Deborah: right. So I'm hopeful. [01:03:00] 

Kush: Debra, you have written this book, 

Deborah: Uhhuh 

Kush: Young Salt at 60.

I love, it's, it's fun, it's irreverent and I think it really captures the essence of 

what you are doing. So what do you hope or who did you write this book for? 

Deborah: I wrote the book for people that wanna learn about the sailing, live aboard lifestyle, but also people who are in their sixties or thinking about retirement and they don't know what they wanna do when they retire and they, it might not even occur to them that they can do something.

That they've never had any [01:04:00] experience with before, so a lot of people ask me, have you been sailing all your life? And then when I tell them that I didn't start until I was 60, they're shocked because people don't think of your sixties as a starting point for anything. And that's tragic really because especially like me, I've invested a lot of time and energy in my health and wellbeing and so what's the point of being healthy and retired and 60 if I'm not gonna go out and do something fantastic.

a lot of people, I would say the vast majority of people who retire are thinking that they're gonna have more time for exercise class, more time for travel, more time for working on their favorite volunteer committee, and maybe more time for family. But that's [01:05:00] really kind of it. or more time for a hobby that they may already have, like the guys, you know, the guys that wanna spend more time golfing when they retire, right?

but to take, to learn something brand new and go all in with it, is a possibility that I want people to know and embrace.



Kush: that is so true. I mean, because just the, the big metaphor, right? Sure. You might inspire a few people to just Yeah. Stop reaming and go and start sailing. But then you are going to motivate maybe a, a larger cohort of people to use that as, again, a metaphor, a launching point to go cheese, whatever wild idea that they have.

Deborah: Yeah. It doesn't have to be sailing. It could be, you know, opening up a cheese factory. You know what, it could be something completely [01:06:00] new. The idea is that something completely new and different, a total shift from anything you've ever known before, because I think that is where you can become really pa a passionate learner.

And you can be truly, fascinated with all this new information. Challenge for sure. but fascinated at the same time to be doing something so different than what you've ever done before. it, it'd be like a mechanic deciding to write a book or a chef deciding to, become a, uh, I don't know, become an airplane pilot.

You know? I mean, you can become anything. That's the point. Uh, and a lot of people say, oh, you're lucky. I wish I could sail. No, no, no. It's not a wish. It's not a wish. It's like it do. You don't wanna sail. [01:07:00] You don't want to sail because if you wanted to sail, you would sail. Yeah. So. what do you want to do?

Because if you wanna do it, if you really, really wanna do it, you should be able to make it happen in the potentially 30 years left. That you have to live from the age of of 60 to when you expire. I mean, a lot of people are living to 90, a lot of people are gonna live to a hundred. 

Kush: I mean, the part that you said at the beginning, which really is such a maybe a little bit, aspiration, which is, you know, let, let this chunk of time be your most exciting one yet.

Yeah. Why not? I want to take us into this part of the conversation. I call it the, um, the each list [01:08:00] section. Yeah. Debra, when you look back at, across, these chapters in your lives, the ones that I've learned about, which is teacher learner sailor and, and also writer, book author. 

Mm-hmm. 

Is there a thread that ties them all together?

Deborah: Huh? yeah, I guess, I guess it is All, it's all about challenging myself really. And, not being. Not being okay with being bored. I like when I, when I've learned something and I'm good at it. I'm looking for the next thing to learn and become good at. and I, you know, I really attribute that to my parents who raised me to, to know about a lot of different things.

They exposed us to a lot of different things. you know, [01:09:00] we went skiing a lot. We went camping a lot. my mom was an artist. We did a lot of artwork. we had a basketball hoop and played basketball. You know, we did all the chores that could be done. I rode horses, you know, my neighbor down the street had some horses.

So, I, I, and you know, I, I grew up outside of New York City. Where the mindset is that anything is possible in New York. Anything is possible. You can become or do or achieve anything if you live in New York. and it's all about tenacity also. You know, you have to, if you work hard, you can achieve it.

so that's kind of what I, what I have done in my life is just to try to take on new challenges and then when I get bored, take on another new challenge and another new challenge.

Kush: And Deborah, [01:10:00] maybe again, like a contrarian question. I see, you know, I see many people around mid age and they seem to be doing more conventional things and they seem to be. Thriving from at least the outset. Mm-hmm. So why is it important to take on this type of adventure that you're on? 



Deborah: I definitely think it, it keeps me in a younger frame of mind.

it keeps me from feeling like I have been there and done that, I, uh, I'm growing, like I, I kind of feel like I'm a young sprout sailor, and that's a good thing, you know, to feel like I'm youthful in some way,

in spite of the wrinkles and the sun spots and the, And the, creaky [01:11:00] joints. you know, but I, but I, I try to keep moving. I don't wanna slow down. 

Kush: yes, I mean, that's so much of the theme of this podcast, which is about growth. And about, taking on discomfort even when it's not required.

Willingly put oneself in the path of mm-hmm. Risk. Mm-hmm. Risk and fear at this. And this is another question like to ask everybody, what does being ageless mean to you? 

Deborah: it just, it just means that you are free of the confines of the number of your years, so you're not trapped into a certain, lifestyle because of your age.

when I was, a young school teacher in my twenties, you know, I got married in my late twenties. We bought a [01:12:00] house. We had two children. I was the school teacher. I had friends who were, you know, sort of well-funded by their rich parents, and they were flitting around the world on sailboats.

And I was being super responsible and, going to work and doing what I was raised to believe that, you know, you do, you go, you get a job, you pay your bills, you do the next, you know, and I did all that. And so now I feel like, you know, this is my turn to go and be footloose and fancy free. So there's that.

There is a little bit of that idea that I have earned this kind of freedom. And I've set myself up so that I can, so that I can afford it, Although, like I said, there's a boat for every budget. anybody could live on a boat no matter how they set themselves up, I think, I think that doing this now is, is making [01:13:00] me feel like I'm doing all that stuff.

Like I am 30 again. like I am that trust fund kid who gets to run around and 

Kush: do all that, 

Deborah: do whatever I want, whenever I want. So, 

Kush: and do you think there are some decisions you made your own in life that kind of set this up? Obviously there was some inspiration because you saw others living where you did to get into sailing, 

Deborah: and again, like the things that give me the most joy don't cost a lot of money. 



Deborah: I have a real minimalist philosophy and I haven't had a car in two and a half years, and I do not miss it one bit.

I don't miss it one bit. I could walk faster than the traffic on Martha's Vineyard this summer. finding a place to park,all of it. I don't miss having a car at all. And, so that's lovely. But I also don't miss anything in my house. I moved out of a 3000 square [01:14:00] foot house and all I took was my coffee mug that my daughter gave me.

My daughter gave me a really cool fishy coffee mug, and I love it. And that's what I brought with me. That and some clothes. I left a huge closet full of clothes, all my school principal clothes, right? I was supervising all these women that wore all these outfits and I had to look pretty decent every day.

And I left all that stuff behind. I can only fit all a few pairs of shoes on this boat. And, you know, my swimsuits and my, and my, uh, you know, my fleece for when it's, for when it's. Cold and I have, couple of things to go out to dinner, but you know what, when you're a nomad, it's wonderful because nobody's seen your outfits before.



Deborah: how many bowls and plates and spoons and things do I need? I can only eat out of one spoon at a time, so I don't really need a whole house [01:15:00] full of stuff. When I left my house on the vineyard, I counted 13 cutting boards. 13. 

Kush: Ridiculous. 

Deborah: How many cutting boards does a person need?

Really? I've really come to be. Mindful of stuff, and because you don't own stuff, stuff owns you. You have to clean it, you have to move it, you have to organize it. I cannot tell you how many weekends of my life I spent trying to find the right curtains to match the sofa, to match the rug, to all that decorating stuff, cleaning out all the closets, you know, uh, uh, cleaning the kids' closets and the kids' stuff and making sure that they had their back to school.

All the stuff management, is overwhelming and not rewarding. there's no spiritual or [01:16:00] social. Purpose related to the management of stuff. And yet that is what Americans do with their weekends. They deal with their stuff, and then the other thing they do is they show off their stuff. 

Kush: So they have to 

Deborah: have parties so that everybody can come and see all their stuff, and they have to work for the right stuff.

Kush: I'm 

Deborah: go over it with stuff. I am done with it. You know, like really, I don't, I don't care about any highfalutin anything. I, I've I've been, I've, I've been lucky enough to live in rich places and be surrounded in rich people, and I get it, and I don't want it. You know what I mean? Like, I don't want it, I really don't want it, it owns them and I don't wanna be owned by stuff.

Kush: you know, that, that is such a simple answer to you know, the whole paradox of choice. If you just take the choices away when you only have, like you said, limited cut, [01:17:00] limited clothes 

mm-hmm. 

Limited options for entertainment. I think one tends to maximize and not get, uh, bogged down by those decisions, which are How long did you expect to keep following this lifestyle?

Deborah: Uh, I don't know. I really don't know. I mean, I told myself that I would do it until I felt like I was really good at it. So the easier it becomes, the more I wanna keep doing it, you know, I guess the answer is, while I'm healthy enough and, you know, I ha I do have children and they don't, I don't have grandchildren yet.

Maybe when I have grand babies, I will want to spend more time, visiting my children. But I dunno, I don't have, I'm kind of afraid that I'm not gonna like land [01:18:00] life again. I really don't. I, I really don't miss it at all. I don't know where, like, if I bought a house, I don't know where I would want it to be.

Like I could, it's hard for me to pick one place where I would wanna live. Compared to living in this place where I can live everywhere. I don't 

Kush: really, what's a, what's a dream place you would love to sail to in the next few years? 

Deborah: The Bahamas. I think it's gonna take me the rest of my life to explore all those islands.

There's hundreds of islands there to explore and because I've, I've been to a lot of the other islands in the Caribbean and they are overrun with American tourists and they're now becoming expensive and crowded. And the cruise ships go there and they unload hundreds of people. And, you know, it's, it's gotten [01:19:00] very like commercial.

Everybody's trying to sell you stuff, and, I don't like that. I'd, I'd rather, I'd rather go to the beach with nothing except, a sarong and a book. 

Kush: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. You 

Deborah: know, and just I don't like the beaches with the chairs and the umbrellas and the, yeah. I don't like, and all the people around and I don't like that. 

Kush: you know, you have taken on this, this entirely new lifestyle. Maybe what is one practice or daily habit, maybe a routine that keeps you centered?

Deborah: I believe in prayer and meditation every day. You know, every day prayer and meditation and, and I, and exercise. Absolutely. Exercise. So every day I do my crunches and, six days a week I run, uh, if I can, if I can. When I'm in The Bahamas, I can't really run. So what I do down there is I swim for an hour and a half and I hike [01:20:00] for two hours.

So I do like a, I do, three and a half hours of exercise every day in The Bahamas. I, I 

enjoy 

that. 

Yeah. 

Kush: Yeah. And that is outside of, you know, uh, all the other kind of movement that is needed to keep your operation going? 

Deborah: Well, yeah. I mean, I have to stay strong. because I need to be able to lift things and I need to be able to pull on lines and, yeah, , I need my strength and I need my balance and my agility.

And I, and it's really good for my head to get my endorphins. it helps me be just mentally a lot more clear, especially as I age. And I, you know, I forget things and I'm, I'm still, I wanna be learning things. I have to be mentally fit. 

Kush: I'm curious, I mean, you come across, you know, as somebody who's just maybe, uh, in some ways at the peak of their, uh, [01:21:00] existence, at the same, do you have any fears about aging?



Deborah: every now and then I feel like I,if I'm sitting down on the beach and I have to get up, I feel like that's harder, And I, I feel my age in certain way. Like times when I have to move my body. I feel certain things are harder than they used to be. but there's not much I can do about it.

medical care and all of that is, is difficult when you're on a boat, like going to a doctor and things like that, you know, you just can't get, you can't get in the car and go to the urgent care or the emergency room. So you have to try to get ahead of everything as much as you can.

I don't have a heck of a lot of faith in it. I hate to say it, but the American medical system is not that, between the, between that and the insurance and [01:22:00] the, it's really, 

Kush: it's a tough one. Yeah. 

Deborah: it's, you know, I almost feel like I'm better off just staying, not ever going to a doctor.

And so if I just keep myself healthy and then I won't have to go to the doctor and I won't have to take the medicine, they won't put me on, I won't have to pay for the tests. They wanna run on me. I won't have to,if they find something wrong with me, I won't have to spend the rest of my very precious life in a hospital dealing with it.

I'd rather be on my boat. Thank you very much. So I have to just try to not think about it. 

Kush: Deborah, you have, yeah. It seems like you're doing all of those things, including the, including I think the one that I think I love the most, which is just finding, finding growth with the new things you've taken on.

Because, you know, it keeps our faculty so alive when we take on new challenges. Maybe one last thing [01:23:00] on this topic is, are there things you're doing with your, uh, diet, your nutrition Yeah. That, 

Deborah: yeah. 

Kush: You wanna talk about? Yeah. 

Deborah: Yeah. I mean, I'm, I'm really trying to, well, I try to cut down as many processed foods, eliminate processed foods as much as possible.

I'm also really concerned about microplastics and I am trying to avoid eating things that come. It wrapped in plastic. it's a huge concern and it's also like, it's a concern for me because I have to get rid of the garbage, right? So I don't like to, uh, to have a lot of things that come in a lot of packaging.

so there's that aspect of it. I only drink water now. That's the only thing that I drink, I don't have to store because I don't have to store things. I don't have to have drink calories. so I, I drink filtered water and, and I try to eat, I try to [01:24:00] eat a decent amount of protein and avoid too many carbs.

I don't eat bread, I don't eat sugar. I, I don't eat pasta. Sometimes I'll have rice and sometimes I'll have oatmeal. Yeah, 

but that's about it. 

Kush: have you, 

Deborah: oh, I just lost, I, I just got a little glitchy. Can you say that again? 

Kush: Yeah, I just, final question, Deborah, your best years, are they behind you or are they ahead of you? 

Deborah: Oh, I think they're ahead of me, for sure. For sure. 

Yeah. Yeah, definitely ahead of me. 

Kush: Yeah. Awesome. I can also see that, all the things that you're doing today and have done in the past to bring you here are just preparing you for some adventures and vitality.

Deborah: I don't really know what, what the rest is gonna look [01:25:00] like, but I definitely feel like, like it'll be good. I feel very, you know, optimistic about it.