March 6, 2024

#11 Aging Joyfully — Craft, Choice, and Playing the Long Game

#11 Aging Joyfully — Craft, Choice, and Playing the Long Game

“One more 5.14 before I die” In today's episode, we head into the epic ️ mountains of Nuevo León, Mexico 🇲🇽 to meet two incredible rock climbers, Maggie and Chuck Odette! This sport climbing power couple has been quietly pushing the limits of their sport while building a beautiful and loving relationship with each other and the remote communities they visit. From the cozy living room of their camper van , Maggie (54) and Chuck (68) share: Inspiring stories of chasing dreams at any age ✨I...

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Season 1

“One more 5.14 before I die”

In today's episode, we head into the epic ️ mountains of Nuevo León, Mexico 🇲🇽 to meet two incredible rock climbers, Maggie and Chuck Odette!

This sport climbing power couple has been quietly pushing the limits of their sport while building a beautiful and loving relationship with each other and the remote communities they visit.

From the cozy living room of their camper van , Maggie (54) and Chuck (68) share:

  • Inspiring stories of chasing dreams at any age ✨
  • Insights into mindful lifestyle choices for a long and healthy life
  • Tips on diligent preparation and training techniques ️‍♀️️‍♂️
  • How to maintain vibrant relationships while on the road
  • Embracing life's adventures with purpose

And what's AARP in climbing lingo?   😂

References:

Maggie’s Instagram https://www.instagram.com/maggieodette/
Chuck’s Instagram https://www.instagram.com/chuck.odette/

Zone Diet Books by Dr. Barry Sears | Nutrition & Cookbooks: zoneliving.com/collections/books

PhysAdvantage supplements by Eric Horst https://physivantage.com/

Who Moved My Cheese? https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/4894

International Climbers Festival in Lander https://www.climbersfestival.org/

Access Fund https://www.accessfund.org/ 

Nobody movie https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7888964/



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WEBVTT

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Welcome back friends.

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This is your host.

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Kush can deal.

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Well with the each list athlete podcast.

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Maybe tap into stories and secrets off.

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peak performance.

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And today's show.

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We traveled to the remote mountains of Nueva Leon.

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Mexico.

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Where we visit two trailblazing rock climbers.

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Who have been quietly pushing the frontiers of the sport.

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And doing so while forming a wonderful and loving relationship with each other.

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As well as the beautiful yet remote communities, the visit.

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I'm so grateful for them for coming on the show from the living room of the caravan.

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And I'm sure they had to hustle to find the best wifi.

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To make this possible, given the remoteness of their location.

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Maggie and Chuck Odette.

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54 and 68 respectively.

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Are a Testament to pursuing.

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Passion over competitiveness.

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And embracing climbing as a lifelong learning journey.

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They both climbed five, 14 and 99.5%.

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I'll create an rock-climbing.

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And have so much wisdom to share with the.

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Emphasis on diligent preparation.

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And mindful lifestyle choices.

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They share insights into maintaining health, strength and vitality in older age.

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From a holistic perspective.

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Including the importance of nutrition.

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And body maintenance.

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This is also for you climbing.

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And traveling couples.

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Check-in Maggie used to run a couples climbing clinic and have some fun nuggets to keep your relationships.

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Vibrant yet purposeful while being on the road.

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Excited to dive into this.

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Conversation and share all the fun things that came out of this.

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If you enjoy the show, please drop me a note and let me know.

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What you think.

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I'm at.

00:03:07.069 --> 00:03:13.339
Kush at each list, athlete dot go, or just drop me a DM on my social media handles.

00:03:15.796 --> 00:03:16.377
Hello.

00:03:16.377 --> 00:03:18.237
Chuck and Maggie, or should I say.

00:03:18.576 --> 00:03:19.137
Hola.

00:03:19.637 --> 00:03:25.567
Since you guys are in, in Mexico, curious, what brings you to Mexico?

00:03:25.706 --> 00:03:27.497
Where in Mexico are you?

00:03:27.997 --> 00:03:29.396
we're in El Salto.

00:03:29.896 --> 00:03:32.766
which is, slightly south of Monterey, Mexico.

00:03:33.266 --> 00:03:37.324
and what brought us here is the, the survivable winter weather.

00:03:37.824 --> 00:03:46.093
rarely do you see freezing temperatures and the daytime temps are 60s Fahrenheit typically on the average this time of year.

00:03:46.593 --> 00:03:49.394
that's what we were after, somewhere we could survive the winter.

00:03:49.663 --> 00:03:50.293
Although we've had

00:03:50.293 --> 00:03:52.074
some 80 degree days.

00:03:52.574 --> 00:03:53.004
Yeah.

00:03:53.504 --> 00:03:53.774
Yeah.

00:03:54.274 --> 00:04:06.564
80 degree days are great for, catching sun and, doing yoga, outside, and, colder days are, better for, good friction and for, climbing hard.

00:04:07.064 --> 00:04:07.543
Typically.

00:04:07.543 --> 00:04:07.663
Yeah.

00:04:08.163 --> 00:04:08.514
Yeah.

00:04:09.014 --> 00:04:09.423
Excellent.

00:04:09.483 --> 00:04:12.113
And sounds like you are here in the winter.

00:04:12.613 --> 00:04:26.524
And, El Salto in Mexico makes for good winter climbing, and I'm guessing this is part of your, seasonal migration, so to speak, as you, as you travel to different, different climbing areas based on conditions.

00:04:27.024 --> 00:04:27.283
Yes.

00:04:27.783 --> 00:04:29.064
Yeah, definitely.

00:04:29.564 --> 00:04:31.113
We, we don't like to freeze.

00:04:31.613 --> 00:04:33.543
And we also don't like to fry.

00:04:33.543 --> 00:04:37.564
Yeah, we definitely travel.

00:04:38.028 --> 00:04:41.009
we follow the weather, I guess would be the way to put it.

00:04:41.558 --> 00:04:43.178
I think that sounds like a good balance.

00:04:43.228 --> 00:04:50.531
And I think every once in a while, you know, one has to, climb in suboptimal conditions where it might be a bit warm or, it might be a bit cold.

00:04:50.771 --> 00:04:55.192
What kind of climbing are you guys doing in, El Salto?

00:04:55.432 --> 00:04:58.552
And is that your favorite style of, the sport?

00:04:59.052 --> 00:05:00.911
this is our first time here.

00:05:00.911 --> 00:05:14.072
We've never been here before, so it was an experimental trip, to figure out if one, we like it, and two, if it's something we want to do in future winters.

00:05:14.612 --> 00:05:23.541
the climbing is, limestone, sport climbing, and, it's, honestly, it's better if you're more of a technical climber.

00:05:24.132 --> 00:05:28.012
Because most of the terrain is, vertical to gently overhanging.

00:05:28.512 --> 00:05:33.752
there are a couple caves, but they're pretty limited in the number of routes.

00:05:34.252 --> 00:05:41.072
and, we've spent most of our time in the four months that we've been here in, in the couple of caves that are here.

00:05:41.572 --> 00:05:54.641
And, so we pretty much climbed just about everything we can climb or everything we want to climb in the four months, so whether or not it'll be a future stop will be, is something we'll have to think about.

00:05:55.141 --> 00:06:03.778
Four months sounds like a juicy, long tenure to spend in in the remote mountains of Monterrey, Mexico.

00:06:04.278 --> 00:06:05.239
I was.

00:06:05.593 --> 00:06:12.913
in the same place, a few years ago, I think right before COVID and, I combined a trip to El Salto with, uh, Potrero Chico.

00:06:13.484 --> 00:06:25.694
And while, yes, I absolutely adored El Salto and not just for the climbing, but also the vibe and the community and, the beauty and the culture of the place.

00:06:25.774 --> 00:06:26.504
I.

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It couldn't last beyond three weeks.

00:06:28.644 --> 00:06:40.234
And it could be also because as much as I like to think that I may still have some of that dirt back climber in me, I do spend the majority of my time in, in a big city in San Francisco.

00:06:40.234 --> 00:06:47.579
So yes, I'll have to build that stamina and, come back to, because unlike you guys, While you guys are finishing business over there.

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I mostly have unfinished business.

00:06:50.319 --> 00:06:52.139
So I have projects to get back to.

00:06:52.139 --> 00:06:56.559
And I think I might've seen maybe one client that you guys might've done one of your many clients.

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I think there was that, there was, there's a really steep climb in, the Tekelode cave.

00:07:01.269 --> 00:07:02.049
I forget the name.

00:07:02.049 --> 00:07:07.038
It's this classic 12 C and I spent maybe Nosferatu.

00:07:07.519 --> 00:07:08.129
Nosferatus.

00:07:08.389 --> 00:07:08.749
Yeah.

00:07:09.249 --> 00:07:12.679
congratulations on sending that amongst all of the other, things.

00:07:13.179 --> 00:07:23.439
Taking a quick step back, we'd love to know where are you guys from and, how old are you and, what did you have for, breakfast today?

00:07:23.439 --> 00:07:24.109
who goes first?

00:07:24.109 --> 00:07:24.629
I'll go first.

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I am from Michigan originally.

00:07:27.788 --> 00:07:31.098
I am 54 years old.

00:07:31.598 --> 00:07:37.489
And I've been climbing since I was 28, so what is that?

00:07:37.759 --> 00:07:39.348
26 years now.

00:07:39.408 --> 00:07:40.338
It was February.

00:07:40.338 --> 00:07:42.439
Yeah, 26 years I've been climbing.

00:07:42.759 --> 00:07:44.939
and what did we have for breakfast?

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We had eggs.

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We had eggs for breakfast.

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Not very exciting.

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Lots of

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huevos in Mexico.

00:07:52.396 --> 00:07:55.049
Lots of huevos in Mexico.

00:07:55.408 --> 00:08:02.968
eggs may not Always be exciting, but they are a good standby and, I'm often also eating, a lot of eggs.

00:08:03.408 --> 00:08:11.278
You have been following this, I would say this nomadic climbing lifestyle if I may for some time.

00:08:11.288 --> 00:08:17.249
Would love to hear a little bit more about how did you guys get started with climbing full time?

00:08:17.614 --> 00:08:22.163
And what were you doing before you were climbing full time?

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Do you want Chuck to tell you how old he is first?

00:08:25.924 --> 00:08:26.574
Because he's really

00:08:26.574 --> 00:08:26.694
old.

00:08:27.194 --> 00:08:27.944
Actually, you're right.

00:08:27.944 --> 00:08:29.033
I forgot that part of the question.

00:08:29.223 --> 00:08:30.304
Yes, sure.

00:08:30.804 --> 00:08:30.954
Yo

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soy sesenta y ocho años.

00:08:35.125 --> 00:08:35.958
Sesenta

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y ocho años.

00:08:38.766 --> 00:08:43.076
Eres muy joven, en anos de perros

00:08:43.526 --> 00:08:51.216
Yeah,

00:08:51.447 --> 00:08:51.886
yeah.

00:08:52.307 --> 00:08:53.697
I also came from Michigan.

00:08:54.246 --> 00:09:00.736
but, ironically, neither Maggie or I ever met while we were both in Michigan.

00:09:01.236 --> 00:09:02.167
Growing up anyway.

00:09:02.526 --> 00:09:04.876
you were like a grown up when I was a kid.

00:09:05.376 --> 00:09:11.287
Funnily enough, I also spent a little bit of time in Michigan, a tiny bit, and I didn't meet you guys either.

00:09:11.576 --> 00:09:12.136
Okay, great.

00:09:12.636 --> 00:09:24.006
you guys are Michigan natives and, at some point you became climbers and at some point you started living the climbing dream, climbing full time.

00:09:24.506 --> 00:09:39.126
At what point did you guys figure out just climbing and living a normal life was not maybe enough or you were looking for something more and you decided to switch to climbing full time?

00:09:39.626 --> 00:09:40.076
Oh,

00:09:40.537 --> 00:09:44.746
that's the advantage of getting really old is you have this thing called retirement.

00:09:45.246 --> 00:09:51.417
So we geared everything toward that moment to make it happen as early as we could.

00:09:51.417 --> 00:09:57.157
For me, it was 59 and a half and that made baggie for 45.

00:09:57.657 --> 00:10:08.206
So we just banked as much money as we could and saved like mad for, the last, I don't know, maybe four or five years.

00:10:08.307 --> 00:10:10.706
so we cut back on climbing.

00:10:10.716 --> 00:10:17.277
we still climbed and trained, but we cut back on our climbing and worked hard and saved even harder.

00:10:17.277 --> 00:10:22.157
And, the company I was working for, which was Petzl had a pretty good retirement program.

00:10:22.226 --> 00:10:31.447
And I invested heavily in that, and by the time I hit 59 and a half, I felt like we could, go to the road full time, and we did.

00:10:31.947 --> 00:10:32.257
Yeah.

00:10:32.757 --> 00:10:38.147
Yeah, we, I lived in Michigan still until I was 40, almost 40.

00:10:38.147 --> 00:10:45.307
we met later in life, and both have had, lifetimes of climbing, basically, before we met one another.

00:10:45.317 --> 00:10:45.336
Yeah.

00:10:45.856 --> 00:10:56.037
at, the Rocktoberfest event in the Red River Gorge in 2007, which was also, it coincided with the Petzl rock trip.

00:10:56.557 --> 00:10:58.007
That particular year.

00:10:58.507 --> 00:11:08.677
so he was there for work and I was there just because living in Michigan, the red is your home crag, six hours is nothing to drive for a weekend.

00:11:09.177 --> 00:11:15.657
And, and we met in 2007, but we didn't actually enter into a relationship until 2009.

00:11:16.157 --> 00:11:23.267
And by that time you were, what, 51 or 52?

00:11:23.437 --> 00:11:24.277
somewhere in there.

00:11:24.667 --> 00:11:27.787
yeah, and I was 39, I think.

00:11:28.177 --> 00:11:36.907
we had a lot of time to think about the role that we wanted climbing to play in our lives before we ever met each other.

00:11:37.226 --> 00:11:45.297
And then when we did, one of the first conversations we had was he asked me how I would feel about going on a really long road trip.

00:11:45.757 --> 00:11:47.086
And I said, Yeah, I'd love it.

00:11:47.086 --> 00:11:50.596
And he said, No, really, how would you really feel about it?

00:11:50.647 --> 00:11:53.586
life would not be like, so easy all the time.

00:11:53.586 --> 00:11:55.076
And would you be okay with that?

00:11:55.126 --> 00:12:02.376
and, but it was, I think it was a good foundational beginning to this relationship, because it's worked out pretty well.

00:12:02.376 --> 00:12:03.437
Absolutely.

00:12:03.437 --> 00:12:11.336
this was a bonus because you answered another question that I was going to come to, which is, which is how you guys met, but before, before I, I get there.

00:12:11.336 --> 00:12:20.206
So let's say, so you guys were living in different places and maybe, living a lifestyle, which is closer to the Monday to Friday lifestyle.

00:12:20.736 --> 00:12:25.736
And at some point, Chuck, you retired from what you were doing full time, but Maggie, that.

00:12:26.236 --> 00:12:37.007
Were you also retiring from what you were doing or was it a more conscious, conscious change where you were like, Hey, whatever I'm doing with my day to day is, not what I'm seeking for the next stage of my life.

00:12:37.037 --> 00:12:40.387
And you decided to, get on the same, path as, as Chuck.

00:12:40.887 --> 00:12:41.397
so

00:12:41.897 --> 00:12:51.746
I had, when we met just a couple of years before we met, I had actually already made a major lifestyle change because I didn't feel like I was getting the opportunity to climb often enough.

00:12:52.187 --> 00:13:59.606
So I had a really good job, full time job in management and, I quit that job.

00:14:00.126 --> 00:14:07.307
and started working part time at the climbing gym and a yoga studio, both two part time jobs.

00:14:07.707 --> 00:14:07.916
Okay.

00:14:07.977 --> 00:14:12.207
so that I had a little bit more freedom in my schedule.

00:14:12.862 --> 00:14:17.061
Well, and so that the work I was doing was more closely aligned with what I love to do.

00:14:17.561 --> 00:14:32.781
so when we met that those were the jobs that I had and I actually was in the background in my mind trying to plan how to move, leave Michigan and move somewhere.

00:14:33.086 --> 00:14:59.352
In the Southwest, but I didn't really have a fully formulated plan yet, so that, seed was already there, but when he retired, we, I moved to Utah in 2009, so we could be together, and so he retired in 2015, so we did have some, that many years of planning together when it came down to it, so I don't know if that answers your question.

00:14:59.852 --> 00:15:06.241
understood because, because for you, for Chuck, it was, let's say a more, definitive event.

00:15:06.741 --> 00:15:16.182
And for you, Maggie sounds like you had consciously been, been moving your lifestyle to do the things that you cared more about.

00:15:16.612 --> 00:15:17.527
Which is right.

00:15:17.902 --> 00:15:28.856
Which is moving into doing something which was closer to, to, to climbing and then gradually shifting to a point where you could, shift to, to climbing full-time.

00:15:29.356 --> 00:15:29.777
Yeah.

00:15:30.277 --> 00:15:35.211
And you already spoke about how you guys met and another, tiny bit of coincidence.

00:15:35.771 --> 00:15:51.932
My last time climbing at the Red was also at that same event, so I was already living in California, but I took a couple of over stoked friends from here and Came down to Slade to attend that same thing.

00:15:52.251 --> 00:15:53.000
That's a rock trip.

00:15:53.000 --> 00:16:02.126
It was funny quite the fun event I mean we had all these I guess iconic Climbers come from all over.

00:16:02.207 --> 00:16:04.086
It was really fun to, partake.

00:16:04.086 --> 00:16:18.517
And yeah, great to know that you guys are out there, uh, finding chemistry within, uh, all of that, all of that, uh, wonderful climbing, talking a little bit about, uh, your climbing itself.

00:16:18.893 --> 00:16:28.323
You guys mentioned when you started climbing, were you guys always sporty and athletic and do you think you guys are naturally.

00:16:28.823 --> 00:16:30.762
gifted as climbers.

00:16:30.813 --> 00:16:35.663
I'm wondering, how did you discover the sport and what kept you going with the sport?

00:16:36.163 --> 00:16:41.173
by today's standards, I think we both started way too late to be gifted.

00:16:41.682 --> 00:16:49.673
the young kids today are develop, developing the kinesthetic sense for climbing at almost as soon as they're walking.

00:16:50.173 --> 00:16:53.663
And for us, it was both as adults.

00:16:53.673 --> 00:17:03.623
So developing that kinesthetic process takes quite a bit longer and, my start came, through a, through an alpine background.

00:17:04.198 --> 00:17:24.018
So I took an outdoor recreation class in college and as part of that class, I did a ropes course and that rope course led me to investigate this idea of maybe going out west and actually experiencing actual mountaineering and learning how to do it safely and properly because there were no gyms back then.

00:17:24.518 --> 00:17:30.087
And, so I took a Paul Petzl course in the Tetons and spent six weeks there.

00:17:30.678 --> 00:17:33.248
learning how not to kill myself in the mountains.

00:17:33.748 --> 00:17:40.508
And, that led to eventually more alpine objectives throughout that early adulthood.

00:17:41.008 --> 00:17:50.189
And eventually I figured out that I liked, through the help of a friend who was an avid rock climber, I liked the rock climbing pitches the most.

00:17:50.689 --> 00:17:58.959
and hated the slogging and the long hikes and the snow crossings and the ice climbing and objective dangers.

00:17:58.959 --> 00:18:11.729
I just like to climb rock and this friend told me about the city of rocks and basically said you can drive a car right up to the base of a rock and get out and start rock climbing and I made him.

00:18:11.979 --> 00:18:21.818
Take me to this place and show me this, show me these rocks and from then on I became more and more hooked on the idea of just rock climbing, the physicality and so on.

00:18:22.318 --> 00:18:22.828
But you were always

00:18:23.009 --> 00:18:23.608
an athlete

00:18:23.649 --> 00:18:24.038
too.

00:18:24.618 --> 00:18:35.538
Yeah, I mean I had a competitive sports background in high school and college with baseball, football, all the usual Michigan sports, baseball, football, swimming.

00:18:35.858 --> 00:18:38.108
You went to college on a baseball scholarship.

00:18:38.169 --> 00:18:39.897
Yeah.

00:18:40.397 --> 00:18:41.637
One sided sport.

00:18:42.137 --> 00:18:57.723
Not quite, doesn't quite translate to climbing so well, but the training ethic and the whole idea behind being regimented about, diet and exercise and whatever else training you can do to support that final outcome.

00:18:57.723 --> 00:19:08.144
Chuck, I am with you on the, on climbing being the highlight and, the main course and, all of the effort that it takes to the crag being the effort.

00:19:08.584 --> 00:19:17.874
I feel I'm a bit of a misfit here in California because climbing mountains and track climbing and a bit of Alpine, that is the name of the game.

00:19:18.374 --> 00:19:24.724
And, to me, I've always been mostly just motivated with the idea of the climbing itself.

00:19:24.724 --> 00:19:28.564
And then I'm like, Hey, if I want to go hiking, then I can go on a hike.

00:19:29.064 --> 00:19:32.744
And, and you, Maggie, what is your, story of coming into, climbing?

00:19:33.244 --> 00:19:33.964
I have a

00:19:33.994 --> 00:19:36.574
little bit more of a modern story.

00:19:37.074 --> 00:19:41.124
I basically was on a trip, for work, a trip to Sedona, Arizona.

00:19:41.624 --> 00:19:47.913
I was in Arizona for work and I went to Sedona while I was there and saw people climbing there just from the road.

00:19:47.913 --> 00:19:51.933
I was driving and I saw people climbing and thought, Oh man, that looks really cool.

00:19:51.933 --> 00:19:52.979
I want to try that.

00:19:53.339 --> 00:20:05.679
And when I came back to Michigan, I told my mom, about my trip and for my birthday that year, my 28th birthday, she got me a starter package at a climbing gym.

00:20:06.159 --> 00:20:09.318
so my first climbing experience was in a gym.

00:20:09.849 --> 00:20:11.159
but that quickly.

00:20:11.568 --> 00:20:12.139
quickly changed.

00:20:12.139 --> 00:20:26.599
after I think I'd gone to the gym three times when I hooked up with a group of people to go to the Red for a weekend, and then in my background before that, I was always into endurance or endurance sports.

00:20:26.629 --> 00:20:30.804
I was a runner from the age of seven distance runner.

00:20:31.254 --> 00:20:40.364
I was also into mountain biking and a little bit of skiing and in Michigan water sports, you have to water ski.

00:20:40.413 --> 00:20:42.734
So lots of water skiing.

00:20:43.234 --> 00:20:46.693
but I was always just really mediocre at all of them.

00:20:47.203 --> 00:20:50.574
I did them all, but in a really mediocre fashion.

00:20:51.074 --> 00:20:55.114
And I didn't get good at better at climbing for a long time too.

00:20:55.571 --> 00:21:10.389
One thing I am trying to explore in this podcast is, some of us who discover, these sports that we love later in life are able to perhaps pour more love and get the most out of them.

00:21:10.389 --> 00:21:10.460
Bye.

00:21:10.460 --> 00:21:10.531
Bye.

00:21:11.031 --> 00:21:25.911
more back because perhaps we did not get exposed or get spoon fed climbing as toddlers and there is more of that, hey, I don't take this thing for granted because I've had to earn it.

00:21:26.391 --> 00:21:37.031
And I'm wondering if that has been part of your experience as you continue to climb and excel as perhaps more seasoned athletes.

00:21:37.531 --> 00:21:44.061
And also, if that is part of your drive to keep, training and performing.

00:21:44.561 --> 00:21:51.171
yeah, it's, I think, for us or for me particularly, it's having started climbing later.

00:21:51.671 --> 00:21:54.871
particularly just rock climbing or sport climbing later in life.

00:21:55.421 --> 00:22:10.341
it, I pursued it more as a love or passion, as opposed to a lot of young climbers tend to be very competitive and gauge their performance based on what other kids their age are doing.

00:22:10.841 --> 00:22:13.221
And, as an adult, you're past that.

00:22:13.270 --> 00:22:16.961
you're, especially an older adult, you've got, you've, you're well past that.

00:22:16.971 --> 00:22:29.791
You've, you In fact, we have a pretty good, a friend put it so succinctly simply by saying that, just about the time you think you're all that, someone comes along and flashes your project.

00:22:30.291 --> 00:22:33.240
and you just hope she's more than 12 years old.

00:22:33.740 --> 00:22:37.931
so all ego, ego goes out the window at that point.

00:22:38.081 --> 00:22:48.260
and that's one of the advantages of being a senior climber, I think, is we do it for the passion as opposed to the Because everyone else is doing it or because we want to be competitive at it.

00:22:48.801 --> 00:22:58.461
we just want, we just love being out there and experiencing that movement, that environment, that outdoor environment, and this lifestyle that it leads to.

00:22:59.010 --> 00:23:00.901
all those things come together, I think.

00:23:01.401 --> 00:23:05.941
Talking of lifestyle, what are some of the other, let's say fringe benefits?

00:23:06.466 --> 00:23:10.145
of being able to climb full time?

00:23:10.696 --> 00:23:13.986
we're free to take the weekends off from climbing.

00:23:14.346 --> 00:23:18.816
So we don't go to the crag on the very most crowded days.

00:23:19.316 --> 00:23:20.046
There's that.

00:23:20.546 --> 00:23:27.145
We're able to design our schedule a little bit more easily or a lot more easily than when we were working.

00:23:27.276 --> 00:23:28.296
That's for sure.

00:23:28.796 --> 00:23:32.895
Get to rest more, which is critical as an aging athlete.

00:23:33.395 --> 00:23:37.986
So you can schedule, we schedule three days a week for climbing, Monday, Wednesday and Friday.

00:23:38.436 --> 00:23:43.676
So we get actually more rest than we do time on the actual rock climbing aspect.

00:23:44.196 --> 00:23:44.375
Yeah.

00:23:44.966 --> 00:23:56.942
And, I think, it also, we have that ability to, sleep in, go to bed early, sleep in if we want, have an extra rest day if we need it.

00:23:57.442 --> 00:24:00.461
we don't, we're not tied to any schedule per se.

00:24:00.971 --> 00:24:05.922
we don't have a work, a work, schedule that we have to be somewhere at a certain time.

00:24:06.402 --> 00:24:08.932
so it's truly a leisurely pursuit.

00:24:09.481 --> 00:24:11.292
Also, climbing days.

00:24:11.817 --> 00:24:13.326
We do have a schedule.

00:24:13.826 --> 00:24:18.937
It's not like we just wake up and get to the crack whenever we get there.

00:24:19.376 --> 00:24:24.237
We definitely have a, a routine and a regimen that we try to stick with.

00:24:24.737 --> 00:24:27.737
Yeah, climbing days, we definitely have objectives.

00:24:27.738 --> 00:24:30.388
we're not, it's not random or haphazard.

00:24:30.388 --> 00:24:32.278
We're not lazy.

00:24:32.278 --> 00:24:48.874
We generally have goals and objectives we're leaning towards something we want to do another 513 plus or another 14 minus or ultimately that's, we're always looking to push limits on those days.

00:24:49.374 --> 00:24:49.903
Absolutely.

00:24:49.903 --> 00:24:57.094
And we'll get a little bit into, the training and, the structure, because I'm really curious to, dive into that.

00:24:57.374 --> 00:25:11.211
But one thing I was just thinking of when you were talking about, some of that flexibility and the time to be able to, to, to sleep better, to take rest days and all of that, it actually made me think of how you alluded to, being a child athlete.

00:25:11.301 --> 00:25:12.881
And I was thinking, when you were a kid.

00:25:13.446 --> 00:25:23.296
That's the other life stage when you get access to a lot of sleep, a lot of, free time and a lot of, let's say flexibility to, to follow your, sport.

00:25:23.336 --> 00:25:31.166
And that's funny now that you guys are retired, you're circling back to that type of lifestyle where you can focus on this thing, single mindedly.

00:25:31.666 --> 00:25:31.836
Yeah.

00:25:31.836 --> 00:25:32.456
Definitely.

00:25:32.456 --> 00:25:33.076
Yeah.

00:25:33.156 --> 00:25:38.786
And one, one other component is that we pretty much narrowed it down to what we're passionate about.

00:25:38.786 --> 00:25:48.182
So these other peripheral things that we used to think we wanted to do or dabble with are no longer part of the, program really.

00:25:48.192 --> 00:25:51.843
we just, we're focused on climbing because that's what we love

00:25:52.323 --> 00:25:52.793
Yes.

00:25:52.793 --> 00:26:17.893
Just, one, one of the last questions on the topic of just your, your chosen lifestyle is if somebody was to contemplate, doing what you're doing, which is, not just, climb full-time, but also climb full-time on the road and travel to quote unquote exotic places like Monterey, Mexico, what could be maybe one of the things that you could advise them on maybe the things you did well with embracing this lifestyle or maybe one.

00:26:18.393 --> 00:26:23.972
or two things you would do differently to set yourself up a little bit better?

00:26:24.523 --> 00:26:33.483
the first thing that comes to mind is, we treat our climbing trips and planning like visualizing a red point of a hard project.

00:26:33.983 --> 00:26:43.932
we actually try in our minds before we make the trek to somewhere like Monterey, and in a place we know very little about, we do a lot of research.

00:26:44.452 --> 00:26:57.843
we do, we actually visualize being there, what we need as far as Like we came here with almost four months worth of food stored in our van, and, all the things we knew we could get across the border we brought.

00:26:58.432 --> 00:27:00.033
so we planned things out.

00:27:00.123 --> 00:27:11.313
money, we had to set aside a specific amount of money for All the expenses of border crossing and paying for additional insurance and so on.

00:27:11.442 --> 00:27:24.373
And, the autopista, traveling on the autopista and, camp fees here to have a safe place to, to have our camper and know that it'll be safe when we go to the crag for the day.

00:27:24.873 --> 00:27:27.593
all those things we planned on and prepared for.

00:27:28.173 --> 00:27:30.313
And, and, so I think.

00:27:30.813 --> 00:27:41.393
preparation of our automobile, things like that, that people really, we see a lot of young climbers who, in fact, right now in the campground we're in, which is very small.

00:27:41.718 --> 00:27:46.438
There are two vehicles parked here, people who came down and their vehicles died and now they can't leave.

00:27:46.438 --> 00:27:47.356
They don't.

00:27:47.356 --> 00:27:51.032
Or they've left and their vehicle's still here.

00:27:51.032 --> 00:27:57.020
I think that the two things that, that, or the two or three things that people do.

00:27:57.406 --> 00:28:05.286
or like we do that I think are necessary for road tripping are, proper planning, proper capitalization.

00:28:05.786 --> 00:28:13.480
that's one of the biggest things we see on as far as failures under capitalization, not planning ahead on how much money they need.

00:28:13.931 --> 00:29:10.651
Okay, good.

00:29:10.681 --> 00:29:14.581
the comfort level of our living situation.

00:29:15.081 --> 00:29:24.797
we, they really prioritized when we went on the road from day one that, we need to have a good, a bed is very important.

00:29:24.886 --> 00:29:38.146
We need to have, our shelter situation, where we need to tow our, I guess this gets back to the vehicle thing, but we need a reliable vehicle that we pay attention to and maintain well to tow our home.

00:29:38.646 --> 00:29:40.116
and yeah.

00:29:40.666 --> 00:29:50.076
we're like here we had 70 mile an hour winds when we first got here in our first month, and in some pretty, pretty severe weather.

00:29:50.576 --> 00:29:52.247
So you have to prepare for that.

00:29:52.336 --> 00:29:55.116
And we see people in tents that are.

00:29:55.616 --> 00:29:58.927
pretty disappointed when there's three or four days of bad weather in a row.

00:29:59.366 --> 00:30:00.326
We're too old for that.

00:30:00.477 --> 00:30:00.856
Yeah.

00:30:01.356 --> 00:30:05.287
Proper shelter is a key thing in road tripping.

00:30:05.787 --> 00:30:07.007
Being on the road full time.

00:30:07.507 --> 00:30:08.027
Got it.

00:30:08.217 --> 00:30:08.576
Got it.

00:30:08.586 --> 00:30:16.547
Noted that, you have been in, And, El Salto for four months by choice and not because your, your vehicle died down.

00:30:17.047 --> 00:30:21.097
You're still waiting for, AAA.

00:30:21.097 --> 00:30:24.548
and yes, I can agree more, the value of a good night's sleep.

00:30:25.048 --> 00:30:29.298
And how that is essential to be able to function and be energized.

00:30:29.298 --> 00:30:30.567
So that's a good investment.

00:30:31.097 --> 00:30:36.928
Any other ways in which you have been able to sustain spending this time in Mexico?

00:30:37.342 --> 00:30:38.432
outside of climbing?

00:30:38.471 --> 00:30:42.872
Are you guys doing any other kind of, pursuit, either recreationally?

00:30:42.912 --> 00:31:00.464
I know, there's been some Spanish, immersion, Because I know that being on the road for a long time, and climbing is one of those sports where most days you go to the crag, you're not sending, you're, you're, butting your head against the wall and you're trying hard and every once in a while you get progress.

00:31:00.775 --> 00:31:12.225
So sometimes when one is not finding all of that progress at the wall itself, one has to find ways to stay energized and motivated and wondering if you have tapped into some.

00:31:12.725 --> 00:31:15.674
routines to be able to, to stay, energized?

00:31:16.174 --> 00:31:22.214
I think maybe, no, we study Spanish like maybe an hour a day almost.

00:31:22.714 --> 00:31:25.075
And then I actually knit a lot.

00:31:25.365 --> 00:31:27.914
I knit sweaters and things.

00:31:28.464 --> 00:31:36.524
but he actually watches a lot of left wing YouTube videos.

00:31:36.524 --> 00:31:40.814
So

00:31:41.193 --> 00:31:42.034
there's that.

00:31:42.074 --> 00:31:50.034
and then we do yoga on rest days, but honestly, we're not the kind of people who really get bored easily.

00:31:50.534 --> 00:31:54.754
Just being alive is like exciting and it's not boring.

00:31:55.254 --> 00:31:58.624
So yeah, we have a dog we play with.

00:31:59.124 --> 00:32:02.703
I do yoga on rest days, pretty much every rest day.

00:32:03.203 --> 00:32:06.983
I practice martial arts, which I enjoy.

00:32:07.534 --> 00:32:16.384
and then, when wifi, which is often, we're in remote places where we don't have the phone signal or wifi.

00:32:16.909 --> 00:32:21.078
we have a huge library of books, so we'll read a lot.

00:32:21.578 --> 00:32:22.389
I'll read a lot.

00:32:22.419 --> 00:32:22.769
Yeah,

00:32:22.858 --> 00:32:24.528
we both read a lot when we don't have

00:32:25.028 --> 00:32:25.459
internet.

00:32:25.469 --> 00:32:29.679
Yeah, and the Spanish thing, I wish I would have started it sooner.

00:32:30.179 --> 00:32:36.298
once, once we arrived here and I realized how difficult it is to communicate in rural Mexico.

00:32:36.848 --> 00:32:46.479
and you mentioned this before about, getting immersed in the culture as well and, having good local experiences with Indigenous people.

00:32:47.078 --> 00:32:54.818
I think that's important every place we go, to, have that understanding and at least be cordial and to be able to communicate.

00:32:55.298 --> 00:32:59.179
And I was surprised at how difficult that it was.

00:32:59.764 --> 00:33:01.403
And I wish I had started sooner.

00:33:01.403 --> 00:33:03.473
It's starting to feel better now.

00:33:03.534 --> 00:33:07.824
I'm starting to understand more and communicate, a little bit better.

00:33:08.324 --> 00:33:09.144
and that's fun.

00:33:09.423 --> 00:33:15.334
Another fun part about traveling to new places is getting those new experiences with the people around you.

00:33:15.834 --> 00:33:17.084
Places like Alabama.

00:33:17.584 --> 00:33:18.713
We speak that language.

00:33:19.213 --> 00:33:21.913
That was a cultural experience in itself.

00:33:21.913 --> 00:33:23.023
Yeah.

00:33:23.203 --> 00:33:23.534
Yeah.

00:33:23.683 --> 00:33:27.233
We spent a winter there once and that was, it was amazing.

00:33:27.264 --> 00:33:28.034
It was eye opening.

00:33:28.374 --> 00:33:30.144
Yeah, but we didn't need Duolingo there.

00:33:30.644 --> 00:33:34.713
But my liberal leanings were a little bit interesting.

00:33:35.213 --> 00:33:50.479
And we took it as a, we viewed it more as an educational opportunity to share our thoughts in a mindful manner, knowing full well that the people that were around the overwhelming majority were very conservative.

00:33:50.979 --> 00:33:54.909
But if we could just show them that we were compassionate and that we weren't.

00:33:55.409 --> 00:34:04.038
there to do harm to anyone, and that we had these different views, but we could still communicate, maybe share ideas, and yeah.

00:34:04.538 --> 00:34:08.767
I have two quick reflections on that I started climbing in the southeast of the U.

00:34:08.767 --> 00:34:12.687
S., and I have, spent time climbing in Alabama.

00:34:12.707 --> 00:34:17.687
I think one, one of my early climbing trips was in a town called Gadsden.

00:34:18.187 --> 00:34:30.774
I think it's, single pit sandstone climbing, maybe an, yeah, and, fortunately or what, or not, that was early in my, stay in the U S and I think I was politically quite ignorant.

00:34:30.854 --> 00:34:40.624
So as a brown man, if I faced any racism there, I was, blissfully ignorant.

00:34:41.124 --> 00:34:48.054
And to be honest, I don't know if I actually faced any racism itself, because I think maybe my demeanor was just off excitement and curiosity.

00:34:48.084 --> 00:34:49.463
So maybe I would disarm people.

00:34:49.963 --> 00:35:06.268
And, and my second is I love this about something like climbing where You don't just, stop in a town like that to buy gas and chips, you actually go and spend time there and you spend hours, days, weeks, and in your case, entire seasons.

00:35:06.648 --> 00:35:19.978
And that allows us to sink into the local milieu and understand people at a much deeper level getting back to climbing a little bit, you guys, climb, an astoundingly high level.

00:35:19.978 --> 00:35:27.308
You guys are both 514 climbers, which is like maybe the half percent or one percent of, climbers out there.

00:35:27.808 --> 00:35:30.478
What are some of your, prouder accomplishments?

00:35:30.598 --> 00:35:41.728
And those need not be just the highest grades you've climbed, but what are maybe some memorable, sins or, things that you guys smile whenever you think about them?

00:35:42.228 --> 00:35:42.378
I think

00:35:42.719 --> 00:35:43.659
killer bees.

00:35:44.159 --> 00:35:50.068
So for me, one of those would be not again, as people always say, not the hardest grade we've climbed.

00:35:50.108 --> 00:35:54.618
But, for me, I think climbing the street in the hurricane called killer bees.

00:35:55.118 --> 00:36:00.659
and mainly because I think it was probably the first really.

00:36:01.098 --> 00:36:19.328
Hard route that we worked together, because, and it probably means more for me than it does for Charlie because for most of the time we've climbed together, he has outclimbed me by a lot, like grade wise, it took me, it's taken me a long time to catch up with him.

00:36:19.828 --> 00:36:26.248
So that was like, I think the first time that we, that there was a project level route for both of us.

00:36:26.699 --> 00:36:33.714
that we worked simultaneously And it took me a season and a half basically.

00:36:34.094 --> 00:36:38.835
So it was a long process which is, that always makes them memorable regardless.

00:36:39.335 --> 00:36:39.914
What about you?

00:36:40.414 --> 00:36:48.684
I would say probably the most memorable accomplishment was climbing the Cassine Ridge on Denali, back in my Alpine days.

00:36:49.184 --> 00:36:56.884
And, but in the fortune thing was though, it ended up in a good experience and a successful experience.

00:36:56.934 --> 00:36:59.815
It was, and it was a big objective.

00:37:00.304 --> 00:37:08.884
it also opened my eyes enough to realize that I wasn't immortal and that I could very well have died on this.

00:37:09.295 --> 00:37:10.564
this expedition.

00:37:11.044 --> 00:37:12.814
very fortunate that I didn't.

00:37:12.894 --> 00:37:18.804
it was one of those things where, it could have ended, it could have ended my life.

00:37:19.304 --> 00:37:22.125
And I got out of it and survived.

00:37:22.625 --> 00:37:31.814
Summited and vowed that I was going to rock climb more after that point, that, that I wanted to live to see a hundred years old.

00:37:32.314 --> 00:37:35.074
I was only 34 when I did the Cassine.

00:37:35.574 --> 00:37:42.584
And, so that was probably one of the most memorable overall things, but I would say.

00:37:43.039 --> 00:37:57.909
as far as actual rock climbing that I enjoy now, when I was, 64, 4 years ago, I did, the line, a line in Maple Canyon, in the pipe dream called T-Rex, which I consider the king line of the cave.

00:37:58.139 --> 00:38:03.869
it, it was a goal when I first saw it that I always wanted to, try and climb.

00:38:04.369 --> 00:38:07.519
And, and it happens to be one of the hardest ones I've ever done.

00:38:08.069 --> 00:38:09.839
and it did it at age 64.

00:38:10.339 --> 00:38:11.419
that's pretty memorable.

00:38:11.769 --> 00:38:12.209
Yeah.

00:38:12.709 --> 00:38:14.589
Badass, from both of you.

00:38:14.989 --> 00:38:23.899
what I glean is, for you, Maggie, it was, that line that you did, Killer Bees, it was, it was a combination of a line of two things.

00:38:23.909 --> 00:38:26.839
One is, one is that it took you a lot of work.

00:38:27.000 --> 00:38:31.669
And anytime you put a lot of work into something, that, Just becomes more cherished.

00:38:32.149 --> 00:38:47.809
And second, that you guys got to climb it together, which, and then, and for you, Chuck, It's funny, earlier we talked about hating long hikes to the crag and here you are with one of your more memorable climbing trips being a big alpine expedition.

00:38:48.309 --> 00:38:50.549
Yeah, but yeah, I think it's similar for me.

00:38:50.549 --> 00:39:06.879
I seem to prefer sport climbing, but some of my, Some of my most profound memories are trips to Tuolumne, in Yosemite, and then, trips, monitoring trips to like places like Bolivia because I think also because those things are really hard for me.

00:39:07.189 --> 00:39:08.319
I think I'm not gifted.

00:39:08.449 --> 00:39:12.500
So because I have to dig deeper to do scary, difficult things.

00:39:13.019 --> 00:39:15.419
I think it's, they suddenly become more rewarding.

00:39:15.919 --> 00:39:18.730
What are some of your, goals now with climbing?

00:39:18.789 --> 00:39:20.250
you're in, El Salto now.

00:39:20.829 --> 00:39:25.689
Have you been pursuing hard projects?

00:39:25.769 --> 00:39:45.869
Has it been lots of, On siting and quick red points and, and then also as you are, as you're in the middle of this trip, how are you able to, keep yourself fit and, motivated and make sure that you continue to, sustain your reserves of power and, those kinds of things.

00:39:46.419 --> 00:40:01.649
first of all, this is, normally this time of year would be bouldering somewhat because of the short days, shorter days and, and also the need to rebuild the power, then we'll need to do harder sport routes, when, during the better seasons.

00:40:02.199 --> 00:40:06.139
so normally we'd be in Waco or Southern Utah or.

00:40:06.539 --> 00:40:16.159
Somewhere we can boulder and train and it's gotten to the point where my body is not holding up well in that environment.

00:40:16.659 --> 00:40:18.239
In other words, I'm getting punished.

00:40:18.739 --> 00:40:19.039
bouldering.

00:40:19.539 --> 00:40:23.779
we decided this year to do the trip to Monterey and just rock climb.

00:40:24.329 --> 00:40:26.929
and we didn't really have any specific projects.

00:40:26.929 --> 00:40:30.139
We wanted to just experience as much of the area as we could.

00:40:30.569 --> 00:40:34.829
Not necessarily on siting, but finding, mini projects.

00:40:34.859 --> 00:40:42.959
Ones that we can do hopefully in a shorter amount of time, that aren't at our complete limit, but pushing that limit.

00:40:43.459 --> 00:40:47.209
And, and we've been able to do that pretty successfully here.

00:40:47.709 --> 00:40:56.939
and do supplemental training as well, pull ups and hangboard stuff and ring push ups and, we have varied routines that we do.

00:40:57.439 --> 00:41:00.359
And, so that helps us get that fitness level up.

00:41:00.429 --> 00:41:07.704
we don't take the winter climbing too seriously, in other words, because days are shorter, conditions can vary a lot.

00:41:07.705 --> 00:41:10.344
And not always to our liking.

00:41:10.494 --> 00:41:12.674
we can't rely on them, in other words.

00:41:13.174 --> 00:41:17.105
it's just more kind of a fun, mini project phase.

00:41:17.134 --> 00:41:17.554
Yeah,

00:41:17.584 --> 00:41:21.864
we definitely step it back in the winter, usually.

00:41:22.414 --> 00:41:28.844
a lot, one thing about climbing here is a lot of the routes that we've gotten on have pretty defined cruxes.

00:41:29.344 --> 00:41:33.404
So for me, like I look at that as like my bouldering, I'm going to do this route.

00:41:33.404 --> 00:41:34.355
It's easy to hear.

00:41:34.355 --> 00:41:39.114
And then I have to turn it on and do this powerful boulder problem.

00:41:39.364 --> 00:41:45.784
And that's the part I'm going to focus on because that's what's going to help me the most for my future goals.

00:41:46.094 --> 00:41:46.684
yeah.

00:41:47.184 --> 00:41:47.914
Makes sense.

00:41:48.424 --> 00:41:52.224
we've had one other season like this where we just rock climbed, and it was during COVID.

00:41:52.724 --> 00:41:55.564
when we went to our moat area in Arizona and climbed.

00:41:56.064 --> 00:41:58.404
And, it ended up working out pretty well.

00:41:58.605 --> 00:42:01.344
We had a good year after that season.

00:42:01.364 --> 00:42:03.174
Yeah, we didn't get hurt was the main thing.

00:42:03.355 --> 00:42:03.454
Yeah.

00:42:03.514 --> 00:42:05.494
The main thing in the winter is not to get hurt.

00:42:05.994 --> 00:42:06.144
Or

00:42:06.144 --> 00:42:06.864
discouraged.

00:42:07.184 --> 00:42:07.424
Yeah.

00:42:07.924 --> 00:42:13.954
Yeah, but I feel like we're in maintenance mode here more than anything, which is okay.

00:42:14.454 --> 00:42:24.894
So we've got a couple of months to, um, kind of shrink, climb our way back into hard route shape before we approach our summer goals.

00:42:25.394 --> 00:42:25.824
Great.

00:42:25.964 --> 00:42:26.814
And, sure.

00:42:26.855 --> 00:42:48.875
and to what you said, Maggie, one, usually people say bouldering is a better way to train for power, but can one can also choose certain routes, maybe routes that have cruxes that are hard for oneself and, and try to, keep your reserves up and, unlock those kinds of moves and which could be, I don't know, somewhat of a reasonable proxy for not being able to, to boulder as much.

00:42:48.875 --> 00:42:48.924
Yeah.

00:42:49.424 --> 00:43:05.554
What are some of those, goals that you have for, for this year, you guys with climbing and, to add to that, what's going to be my next question, what are some of your other goals broadly for the next, few years, things that you are motivated by and would like to accomplish?

00:43:06.084 --> 00:43:15.519
I would like to do, and I've been, it's a theme that I've had going for the last couple of years, but I'd like to do one more 514 before I die.

00:43:16.019 --> 00:43:17.609
I've been saving one or two.

00:43:18.109 --> 00:43:27.179
I've never done a 514, but, you guys talking to people like you, I think ignites, that little bit of, fire in me to, to go and work up to a 514 someday.

00:43:27.679 --> 00:43:28.119
Yeah,

00:43:28.119 --> 00:43:30.209
totally possible.

00:43:30.239 --> 00:43:30.869
Totally possible.

00:43:31.159 --> 00:43:31.559
Yeah.

00:43:31.889 --> 00:43:36.859
but, yeah, it's, and to do that, we're going back to Maple Canyon this summer.

00:43:37.359 --> 00:43:39.719
And, we've opted to camp host.

00:43:40.219 --> 00:43:50.509
there for the summer season, which guarantees us five months of staying in the canyon and, with a little bit of volunteer work that's not too grueling.

00:43:50.869 --> 00:43:56.679
and, I have a project there that's been easily over a decade long project.

00:43:57.179 --> 00:44:17.959
I voted off a long time ago that I was too old to be able to do this particular route and, Now I think it's possible for me if I approach it with, some of the things I've learned over the past couple of years about, how to become less attached and more focused on resting.

00:44:17.969 --> 00:44:25.859
and, I think I can do this project that, as it's repelled me, literally kicked me off.

00:44:26.319 --> 00:44:33.599
injured me on a couple serious, semi serious injuries, after being really close to red pointing.

00:44:34.139 --> 00:44:36.609
So I've, like I said, I've written it off now.

00:44:36.609 --> 00:44:39.929
I think that I need to, just get it done.

00:44:40.429 --> 00:44:46.179
So my hope is to get on this thing this summer and I've got five months to try to get it done.

00:44:46.239 --> 00:44:52.409
It's only 13D, but it has two extensions that I've done off of harder starts.

00:44:52.909 --> 00:44:59.109
or a slightly harder start, and, but suits, suited me better because it was more power endurance.

00:44:59.429 --> 00:45:05.679
This route is more powerful, and it has a really powerful crux that, that is always giving me trouble.

00:45:06.279 --> 00:45:13.289
And, if I can get through that, it opens up these two other extensions for two potential 14As.

00:45:13.299 --> 00:45:14.230
it's possible.

00:45:14.419 --> 00:45:16.909
If I can, I always qualify if I can stay healthy.

00:45:17.409 --> 00:45:18.819
that, I can still do one.

00:45:19.319 --> 00:45:20.839
It sounds like you're right on your way.

00:45:21.339 --> 00:45:33.059
And because you, the, the crack super well, the style and you have done the latter half or latter halves of the route, so to speak, except the, the 13 D bits.

00:45:33.059 --> 00:45:40.819
So once you unlock that, it might net you not one, but two different 514, then that would be, that would be amazing.

00:45:41.319 --> 00:45:42.179
And what about you?

00:45:42.679 --> 00:45:43.209
What about you, Maggie?

00:45:43.759 --> 00:45:57.419
at that same crag, I have, there's a 13C that I saved for one of the last routes for me to do there because it's a different style than most of the rest of the routes in there.

00:45:57.419 --> 00:46:06.619
It's definitely, big moves, I'm not big, and, very sustained, big moves, hard crops.

00:46:07.119 --> 00:46:12.480
So I think it's actually harder for me than, some of the other routes there that are harder grades.

00:46:12.980 --> 00:46:15.679
It doesn't have as many really good rests on it.

00:46:15.719 --> 00:46:17.230
I'm really good at resting.

00:46:17.230 --> 00:46:17.839
We both are.

00:46:17.869 --> 00:46:22.069
That's our, if we were going to have a quote unquote climbing superpower, that would be it.

00:46:22.439 --> 00:46:23.449
Resting on route.

00:46:23.949 --> 00:46:26.449
But this route doesn't have as many opportunities to do that.

00:46:26.459 --> 00:46:29.029
So I have that one that I'd like to do.

00:46:29.319 --> 00:46:33.679
And I'd like to, I was one hanging it when we were there a couple years ago.

00:46:33.699 --> 00:46:38.029
So I have the beta, it's just a matter of actually making it happen.

00:46:38.529 --> 00:46:42.369
And then, There's another route in there that's like my dream route.

00:46:42.389 --> 00:46:44.339
It's called Divine Fury.

00:46:44.409 --> 00:46:55.049
it's a 14b that I honestly don't know if I'll be able to do it, but that not knowing if I can do something is usually what makes me want to try.

00:46:55.439 --> 00:46:57.014
So I'm gonna try.

00:46:57.514 --> 00:46:58.134
We'll see.

00:46:58.484 --> 00:47:06.264
And hopefully Charlie will do his thing super fast and be done with that rig and then come climb on divine with me too.

00:47:06.764 --> 00:47:07.355
That's great.

00:47:07.355 --> 00:47:17.254
Sounds like you guys both have exciting projects and aspirations to keep you going through a hard, cruel winter.

00:47:17.474 --> 00:47:18.464
Not to get too cheesy.

00:47:18.964 --> 00:47:26.744
We talked a little bit about, how you train for power in the, in the winter and how you have some routines with doing yoga.

00:47:27.324 --> 00:47:33.625
How are some of the other ways with which you train and are you guys self coached?

00:47:34.125 --> 00:47:44.355
Do you have, do you work with a coach and any, any other routines you think which have been exceptionally, useful to you to, to keep up your climbing training?

00:47:44.875 --> 00:47:45.724
he's my coach.

00:47:46.224 --> 00:47:51.910
we don't, our training is not what anyone would call conventional.

00:47:51.930 --> 00:47:54.660
I think, we do things from time to time.

00:47:54.660 --> 00:48:06.770
We do some things, at the end of climbing days, sometimes we'll come back and do some supplemental stuff, but really basic like pull ups and then like pushups and opposition stuff.

00:48:07.270 --> 00:48:16.540
We will, when we're not in a red point phase, we'll sometimes do some, a little bit of hangboarding, but not what most.

00:48:17.040 --> 00:48:21.350
People say they do when they talk about hangboarding these days.

00:48:21.350 --> 00:48:24.201
it's not some long drawn out regimen.

00:48:24.750 --> 00:48:27.280
we just do a little bit here and there.

00:48:27.310 --> 00:48:31.560
we do have blood flow restriction bands and we'll use those.

00:48:31.570 --> 00:48:34.210
Sometimes we go through phases of using those.

00:48:34.710 --> 00:49:00.290
I actually think with our lifestyle, those are really a great tool because we are climbing three days a week, but then I still feel like we can use the blood flow restriction, and do some hangs and some other exercises maybe on a Saturday or even sometimes, on a Tuesday, even though we're climbing Monday and Wednesday, but with the blood flow restriction, I feel like the recovery is.

00:49:00.790 --> 00:49:02.290
So much better.

00:49:02.790 --> 00:49:04.480
we're not in a full on performance phase.

00:49:04.480 --> 00:49:06.010
I think we can get away with that.

00:49:06.510 --> 00:49:06.780
yeah,

00:49:06.780 --> 00:49:07.150
I don't know.

00:49:07.160 --> 00:49:11.920
What do you I think it's just a matter of doing mostly climbing.

00:49:12.050 --> 00:49:12.650
Yeah.

00:49:12.890 --> 00:49:15.190
and trying to focus the climbing.

00:49:15.480 --> 00:49:22.190
the training is the climbing and then resting and let it sink in, let it recover.

00:49:22.690 --> 00:49:41.445
The supplemental stuff we do afterwards, it's only because we feel like our day's been short or we didn't get the full workout that we want to do to crowding at the crag or weather or whatever reason we'll come back and do supplemental stuff and it's usually pretty varied.

00:49:41.945 --> 00:49:44.195
we don't have a specific routine.

00:49:44.705 --> 00:50:05.935
it's, to me, it's more like a crossfit routine, so you're not really, you're anything to break down muscle mass when you're my age, that, so protein, ingesting protein and hydrating well, and then recovering well, is, You get this gradual improvement and it's really gradual.

00:50:05.935 --> 00:50:14.576
it's like super minute, but it, it is definitely progressing gradually, through performance and rest.

00:50:14.576 --> 00:50:20.165
And if you try to force it any other way, bodies my age just don't respond.

00:50:20.165 --> 00:50:30.846
They, my goal is to try to maintain as much muscle mass as I can at this day, this age, and, and make it applicable toward climbing.

00:50:31.346 --> 00:50:32.715
That's the best I can hope for.

00:50:33.215 --> 00:50:35.265
I don't know anybody that can train me.

00:50:35.815 --> 00:50:40.455
I get, I read a lot of amazing ideas that I wish I would have known.

00:50:40.955 --> 00:50:46.275
20, 30 years ago, or even 10 years ago, that just aren't applicable now.

00:50:46.795 --> 00:50:52.625
I see kids, younger climbers doing these amazing things to, to get fit for climbing.

00:50:52.625 --> 00:50:58.305
And I wish I could do those things, but if I did those things, I wouldn't be able to climb for a month.

00:50:58.805 --> 00:51:01.945
so it's, It's self, yeah, it's definitely self taught.

00:51:01.945 --> 00:51:04.665
I don't have anyone to coach me on this per se.

00:51:04.855 --> 00:51:05.245
Yeah.

00:51:05.255 --> 00:51:09.665
there's only a couple older climbers out there that are still, performing well.

00:51:09.665 --> 00:51:11.855
yeah, like Bill Ramsey, and He's younger.

00:51:12.065 --> 00:51:16.225
He's actually younger, but still, it, it's applicable in a way.

00:51:16.725 --> 00:51:19.295
and Lee Sheftel who is a decade older than I am.

00:51:19.795 --> 00:51:23.826
I can garner Some ideas from him, but that's far and few.

00:51:24.326 --> 00:51:24.935
Absolutely.

00:51:24.935 --> 00:51:38.125
whichever ways you guys have learned and maybe you particularly, Chuck, on being able to coach yourself and, understand how your body responds to different kinds of stimuli seem to be working.

00:51:38.625 --> 00:51:42.505
One thing that you touched on, which I thought I would ask.

00:51:43.020 --> 00:51:49.940
a little bit more about if you were to jog back in time, let's say 20 years, or maybe 25 years.

00:51:50.440 --> 00:52:04.820
Is there something you think you should have started doing or stopped doing, which might have helped you improve upon your already stellar, uh, timing performance?

00:52:05.320 --> 00:52:14.940
I think I probably would have bouldered more, And spent, three or four months of a winter bouldering and training specifically power.

00:52:15.440 --> 00:52:26.520
I think that's, I did that in the gym because living in northern Utah, your rock climbing season is over in late fall and doesn't start again until early spring.

00:52:27.020 --> 00:52:30.180
So you're forced into the gym or into training mode.

00:52:30.721 --> 00:52:35.830
and in, in essentially bouldering, in on plastic if it's available.

00:52:36.330 --> 00:52:40.770
but I definitely would have spent, more time focused on the training aspect.

00:52:41.270 --> 00:52:41.701
Got it.

00:52:41.701 --> 00:52:41.890
So

00:52:41.890 --> 00:52:48.290
maybe, maybe bouldered more or continue bouldering as a part of your training.

00:52:48.330 --> 00:52:50.340
What about like things like hangboarding?

00:52:50.350 --> 00:52:53.760
And, do you think if you had done some of that supplemental stuff?

00:52:54.180 --> 00:52:55.980
over the years that could have helped?

00:52:56.580 --> 00:53:00.630
I don't think I would have just because I, a couple of things.

00:53:00.630 --> 00:53:04.150
I think my, one is I have piano playing fingers.

00:53:04.300 --> 00:53:14.870
They're, I don't know that I could make them sausage fingers like a lot of really good crimp climbers can or people that can hang on hang boards really well.

00:53:15.370 --> 00:53:19.480
The, probably more reason why I should have been doing that, but I just hate it.

00:53:19.840 --> 00:53:21.440
It's not something I enjoy.

00:53:21.570 --> 00:53:21.900
Yeah.

00:53:22.250 --> 00:53:25.110
I used to do a lot of campus training.

00:53:25.610 --> 00:53:33.140
So campus sport, I love that because it was a little bit more engaging and, a little more fun to me.

00:53:33.140 --> 00:53:40.540
I can make it a game and not as boring as just hanging on something, which to me is anti climbing.

00:53:40.920 --> 00:53:53.640
But also we both started late enough that we were beyond that point of developing that base tendon strength that you can work on up till you're like 25 or whatever it is.

00:53:54.070 --> 00:54:04.510
So I feel like anytime along the way, that we've dedicated to training finger strength just is what it is.

00:54:05.010 --> 00:54:15.650
We were, we're not able, like that baseline tendon strength, we would just have to be hanging constantly to maintain.

00:54:15.660 --> 00:54:25.090
Doing more of it when we were 30 really wouldn't make a difference for today, if that makes sense.

00:54:25.640 --> 00:54:34.140
having said that, you guys, from what I have read, made rapid progress, even though you guys started climbing later.

00:54:34.640 --> 00:54:50.610
You guys went from climbing, maybe 12s and 13s to climbing 514s in some, in a very impressive span of time, any specific things you think helped you attain that, progression quickly?

00:54:51.110 --> 00:54:54.630
I think for me, there were two things that really kicked it into gear.

00:54:55.180 --> 00:55:18.810
number one was just the total focus on it instead of having all these peripheral sports and wanting to pursue mountain objectives and wanting to be able to run long distances and pedal my bike, all those things I once I got those out of my system in focus, specifically on climbing, that was, one big moment of change.

00:55:19.110 --> 00:55:20.830
The other one was nutrition.

00:55:21.330 --> 00:55:28.860
just, I had a really good friend who was, had gone through medical school and opted not to become a doctor.

00:55:28.920 --> 00:55:37.870
he was in his residency and decided he wanted to pursue more climbing and less education and less time being a medical doctor.

00:55:38.420 --> 00:56:01.955
and he became a good mentor to me, he was older, one of the few people that were older than me, climbing, and he, I was talking about the supplement, creatine, and I knew this person would know, so I asked him specifically about it, and he said, no, just forget about that, just focus on nutrition, and I said, This is in the mid 90s.

00:56:02.005 --> 00:56:04.055
It goes, just focus on nutrition.

00:56:04.125 --> 00:56:09.115
you can change your entire genetic makeup with nutrition.

00:56:09.615 --> 00:56:14.405
You can, and he recommended the book, Enter the Zone, which is balanced macronutrient diet.

00:56:14.905 --> 00:56:16.826
And, and he started explaining it to me.

00:56:16.826 --> 00:56:19.715
And this is a guy who rarely even talks to anyone.

00:56:20.195 --> 00:56:23.935
He's very, subdued and quiet and meditative.

00:56:24.435 --> 00:56:25.235
And he just.

00:56:25.735 --> 00:56:28.625
for a solid hour was in my ear about this.

00:56:29.105 --> 00:56:37.215
and so I went right out and bought the book and started practicing the diet and got almost immediate results.

00:56:37.755 --> 00:56:39.775
my climbing went up exponentially.

00:56:39.775 --> 00:56:45.895
My capacity for training went up exponentially and recovery, happened a lot more quickly.

00:56:45.895 --> 00:56:50.635
and to this day, I still practice a balanced macronutrient diet for the most part.

00:56:51.135 --> 00:56:51.255
But

00:56:51.255 --> 00:56:52.565
now you take creatine too.

00:56:53.145 --> 00:56:53.925
Yeah, I also take it.

00:56:54.425 --> 00:56:58.535
Can I get the name of that book again so I'll have it in the show notes if people want to,

00:56:58.585 --> 00:57:01.826
it's it was published in the early 90s by Dr.

00:57:01.846 --> 00:57:03.225
Barry Sears.

00:57:03.725 --> 00:57:04.485
Enter the Zone.

00:57:04.495 --> 00:57:06.225
And it's called Enter the Zone.

00:57:06.725 --> 00:57:09.465
You can find it in secondhand bookshops everywhere.

00:57:09.465 --> 00:57:10.275
It was during that bookshop.

00:57:10.615 --> 00:57:16.235
That period of time when there were a lot of fat, trendy diets, most of which were detrimental

00:57:16.735 --> 00:57:18.955
to most of them cause heart attacks.

00:57:18.955 --> 00:57:20.485
And

00:57:20.485 --> 00:57:23.235
it was really unfortunate that it came out when it did.

00:57:23.235 --> 00:57:26.565
But the great part was that Barry Sears was a biochemist.

00:57:27.155 --> 00:57:32.525
So he approached diet and nutrition from a biochemical aspect and the breakdown in the body of what.

00:57:32.800 --> 00:57:33.090
Yeah.

00:57:33.140 --> 00:57:38.090
How carbohydrates and proteins and fats work.

00:57:38.090 --> 00:57:45.471
And it was also during that time that everybody was doing low fat diets, thinking that somehow was going to make them better athletes.

00:57:45.510 --> 00:57:52.680
And there are newer versions of the, they've updated, new books that are based on the same science.

00:57:52.680 --> 00:57:56.580
And it's really when it comes down to it, it's a hormone balancing diet.

00:57:57.080 --> 00:57:59.610
so what does, the diet that you guys.

00:58:00.110 --> 00:58:04.570
practice today that allows you to reach, peak performance.

00:58:04.600 --> 00:58:06.890
you mentioned you take some creatine.

00:58:07.240 --> 00:58:15.975
So yeah, I would love to hear about, and from both of you, supplementation that helps you guys and then, the core blocks of your, food today.

00:58:16.475 --> 00:58:19.585
we do things differently than one another now.

00:58:19.605 --> 00:58:43.655
For a little bit, we were the same, but I'm a 54 year old woman and he's a 68 year old man, so I've been going through a lot of changes the last few years, and I've had to do a lot of experimentation, and I think I finally have settled in, and I'm not that far off from where the balanced macronutrient intake that he eats.

00:58:43.815 --> 00:58:49.315
But I definitely, focus more on fat on climbing days for energy.

00:58:49.315 --> 00:58:51.875
And I probably eat a little higher carbohydrate.

00:58:52.375 --> 00:58:57.045
He does, but still the focus is on trying to make sure I get enough protein.

00:58:57.596 --> 00:59:00.525
and we both do, some low dose creatine.

00:59:01.025 --> 00:59:05.585
we, use, full disclosure, PhysAdvantage supplements.

00:59:05.805 --> 00:59:09.076
Eric Horst's company, we are on, the masters.

00:59:09.515 --> 00:59:11.275
Team, for the brand.

00:59:11.695 --> 00:59:15.385
and we both daily use the supercharged collagen.

00:59:15.385 --> 00:59:16.435
from Dvantage.

00:59:16.435 --> 00:59:19.885
So we're doing, taking collagen, hydrolyzed collagen with vitamin C.

00:59:20.435 --> 00:59:21.695
and then what else?

00:59:21.701 --> 00:59:28.735
Performance wise, we, use the physio advantage indirect, the bee route in Citraline malate, product.

00:59:28.826 --> 00:59:32.995
It's a drink that's just, helps with oxygen uptake in the muscles.

00:59:33.045 --> 00:59:33.285
and then.

00:59:33.785 --> 00:59:37.205
we also a few years back started using beta alanine.

00:59:37.705 --> 00:59:46.515
and that was on the advice of a friend who's super into research and science and performance science.

00:59:46.995 --> 00:59:53.085
and that is something that I think really has had a positive effect for both of us.

00:59:53.585 --> 00:59:54.215
For sure.

00:59:54.715 --> 00:59:58.195
Physiadvantage also makes a supplement called Crush.

00:59:58.695 --> 01:00:06.985
That, is a capsule that you can take actually out the crack, about 20 to 30 minutes before you start climbing.

01:00:07.485 --> 01:00:08.655
So we'll warm up.

01:00:08.655 --> 01:00:19.265
And then, just before we get on the project, if, you can take a Crush Capsule, they recommend two, I usually only take one, and it's, it has, one of the ingredients is caffeine.

01:00:19.265 --> 01:00:20.596
The main ingredient.

01:00:20.905 --> 01:00:30.445
And, but it also has, other supplements in it that help avoid the jitters that you get from a, like a typical high caffeine dose.

01:00:30.535 --> 01:00:30.915
Yeah.

01:00:30.945 --> 01:00:35.815
So you're not, you don't feel jittery but you feel that kind of, extra surge.

01:00:36.315 --> 01:00:36.405
little snap.

01:00:36.815 --> 01:00:38.375
Yeah, comes in handy.

01:00:38.375 --> 01:00:57.335
A lot of times I'll take it at the end of the day too, if I don't, to maybe if I want to give it one more go, and I feel like I could or should, I'll take a creatine or a crush capsule prior to, to, and usually wait 20 minutes, and then I feel like going.

01:00:57.715 --> 01:00:58.065
Yeah.

01:00:58.215 --> 01:00:58.605
Yeah.

01:00:59.145 --> 01:00:59.905
Yeah.

01:01:00.065 --> 01:01:03.915
And then we do regular daily, like kind of the Predictable ones.

01:01:03.915 --> 01:01:09.155
Glucosamine, fish oil, vitamin C.

01:01:09.255 --> 01:01:14.195
I take some herbal adaptogens as a post menopausal woman.

01:01:14.745 --> 01:01:19.235
that kind of help with my energy levels and hormone balance as far as that's concerned.

01:01:19.785 --> 01:01:22.755
we take a lot of stuff, to be honest, we do.

01:01:23.255 --> 01:01:26.315
Also, our diet isn't the most varied diet out there.

01:01:26.315 --> 01:01:40.045
We don't eat a ton of, vegetables and fruits and things, so a lot of the micronutrients we're getting from our supplements rather than from our food, which I know somebody listening is going to be like, Ew, but that's just what we do.

01:01:40.545 --> 01:01:47.475
It's not like we're seeking organic, although there's, there's, that's probably a good idea.

01:01:47.975 --> 01:01:49.205
And I would recommend it.

01:01:49.605 --> 01:01:56.605
Low meat diets, if you're going to eat meat, lean meat, like chicken breast or salmon is ideal.

01:01:57.096 --> 01:01:58.585
Tilapia, we eat a lot of tilapia.

01:01:58.585 --> 01:02:01.385
We eat a lot of tuna.

01:02:01.815 --> 01:02:07.925
And I feel better on fat than, than I do on carbohydrates is something I discovered.

01:02:07.975 --> 01:02:16.645
in the balanced macronutrient aspect, I lean more toward fat than carbohydrate to make up the, the fuel for the fuel that I need.

01:02:17.145 --> 01:02:20.925
I find like almonds and fish oil and, What is it?

01:02:20.925 --> 01:02:25.540
avocados, things like that, that I, that are high fat tend to fuel mes that's a fruit

01:02:26.177 --> 01:02:26.757
We eat a fruit

01:02:27.517 --> 01:02:31.372
I also ingest 150 grams of protein a day, so Yeah.

01:02:31.657 --> 01:02:34.782
Which is, and I do about a hundred, which is double the what?

01:02:34.788 --> 01:02:42.872
The FDA, my, it's, it, I think it's really critical to fi stave off sarcopenia, in later age.

01:02:43.372 --> 01:02:46.382
Try to keep as much of the muscle mass as you can.

01:02:46.882 --> 01:02:47.732
I think it's critical.

01:02:48.232 --> 01:02:48.782
Certainly.

01:02:48.812 --> 01:02:53.402
And, your climbing performance speaks for itself.

01:02:53.522 --> 01:02:59.292
And, for those of us not watching this on video, I will say that, your hair looks great.

01:02:59.492 --> 01:03:11.092
So, whatever the, the diet is contributing to your climbing and overall health and fitness, it's certainly not hurting, knock on wood, your great hair.

01:03:11.192 --> 01:03:14.812
So follow, Chuck and Maggie's diet for, for beautiful

01:03:14.812 --> 01:03:15.822
hair.

01:03:15.822 --> 01:03:18.882
I think the protein and the collagen.

01:03:19.342 --> 01:03:20.602
Yeah, the collagen is

01:03:20.622 --> 01:03:22.221
whoo!

01:03:22.721 --> 01:03:24.661
And having, having some good genetics, too.

01:03:25.161 --> 01:03:25.361
There's

01:03:25.401 --> 01:03:25.741
that.

01:03:26.241 --> 01:03:26.511
Yes.

01:03:27.011 --> 01:03:27.641
There's that.

01:03:28.141 --> 01:03:28.521
It's funny.

01:03:28.561 --> 01:03:37.521
Have you guys ever had blood work done to identify what are some of the things that you guys, do you guys do that on a regular basis to ensure,

01:03:37.571 --> 01:03:41.621
I do my annual physical about every five to 10 years.

01:03:42.121 --> 01:03:44.481
And then I have blood work done at that time.

01:03:44.591 --> 01:03:46.141
I just had a physical.

01:03:46.641 --> 01:03:48.711
With blood work two years ago.

01:03:48.751 --> 01:03:55.422
Yeah, we're not like tracking Nutrients in our yeah, we're not those people.

01:03:56.277 --> 01:04:03.817
Yeah, I think biofeedback is probably what we base most of our choices on More than anything,

01:04:04.317 --> 01:04:09.207
every time I see the doctor, it's just keep doing whatever you're doing, just keep doing that.

01:04:09.707 --> 01:04:10.367
Sure.

01:04:10.817 --> 01:04:14.467
you guys are also pushing frontiers.

01:04:14.507 --> 01:04:19.647
Maybe you chuck where people, didn't know what was possible.

01:04:19.717 --> 01:04:26.577
So I think people are probably simply exalting at, your performance levels.

01:04:26.932 --> 01:04:35.772
And, partly I think they don't really know what else you could be doing because they're like, he's already climbing at the 0.

01:04:36.272 --> 01:04:40.042
5 percentile and, is excelling.

01:04:40.062 --> 01:04:43.622
and he is in his upper sixties, so we don't know what he could be doing more.

01:04:43.642 --> 01:04:50.202
And also in a sport, which is very niche, this is not maybe running.

01:04:50.677 --> 01:04:57.527
Or something else where there's been so much more science with being able to keep people, performing.

01:04:58.027 --> 01:04:58.927
Yeah, I agree.

01:04:58.927 --> 01:05:00.607
It's, it's, but I, it's.

01:05:01.107 --> 01:05:03.107
I can't imagine doing anything else.

01:05:03.607 --> 01:05:08.587
I'm still, every day I get up, I want to go, I'm passionate about rock climbing.

01:05:08.587 --> 01:05:15.747
And even on my rest days when I'm not climbing, I'm thinking about climbing or a climb that I'm specifically working on.

01:05:15.747 --> 01:05:18.877
And I still have that desire and that passion.

01:05:18.877 --> 01:05:22.288
So I don't know that I would have had it for anything else.

01:05:22.837 --> 01:05:27.527
and I feel lucky that I've, stumbled across this, this climbing thing.

01:05:28.027 --> 01:05:33.317
All, all is, pretty badass as far as I'm concerned, inspiring in all kinds of ways.

01:05:33.757 --> 01:05:35.677
Just moving, tracks a little bit.

01:05:36.177 --> 01:05:46.407
In the last few years, what new belief, or behavior has improved your life and would love an answer from both of you.

01:05:46.907 --> 01:05:47.687
Oh, okay.

01:05:47.737 --> 01:05:52.087
for me, I think it's actually something that actually came up yesterday at the crack.

01:05:52.417 --> 01:05:58.077
as I mentioned earlier, as a 54 year old woman, things have changed a lot in the last few years.

01:05:58.487 --> 01:06:06.217
And, and that includes, things that I'd never I don't want to say it's the changes have been really fascinating.

01:06:06.477 --> 01:06:13.117
and my body is very different than it once was, and it's very different than it was just a few years ago, actually.

01:06:13.538 --> 01:06:19.357
And, yesterday it came up, there were a bunch of like young girls at the crack, and I was just like, Oh.

01:06:19.857 --> 01:06:32.367
I'm not young anymore, But then, the thing that I've learned in the past few years popped up into my head and it was, it really doesn't, can I say fucking, it really doesn't fucking matter.

01:06:32.917 --> 01:06:36.598
I can do what I can do with the body that I have.

01:06:37.018 --> 01:06:38.908
And that to me is amazing.

01:06:39.408 --> 01:06:51.438
And, It really, it's not that it doesn't come up as a woman, the way we're raised in this weird society where we all compare ourselves to each other and whatnot.

01:06:51.468 --> 01:06:59.928
And it's really easy to fall into that looking around and thinking, Oh, my body doesn't look like that anymore when it may be used to.

01:07:00.428 --> 01:07:06.578
and it's quite liberating and fun, actually.

01:07:07.128 --> 01:07:44.348
When you really realize that looking like that doesn't mean anything at all and what matters is the function and the joy that being able to move your body in certain ways and to be able to do things that take strength and take, technique and finesse and all those other, things that aren't strength that come from years of climbing and learning, and knowing that you're still learning more of those things.

01:07:44.448 --> 01:08:02.828
that is, that's probably the biggest thing for me, just that Knowledge that, aesthetics are their own thing that I can put way over to the side and just think, that person looks amazing, but I can do amazing things.

01:08:03.328 --> 01:08:08.568
There needs to be, like an affirmation poster made up which says something like that.

01:08:09.068 --> 01:08:11.058
Looking amazing versus doing amazing.

01:08:11.308 --> 01:08:15.088
And just to add to what I said earlier, you guys both look amazing.

01:08:15.088 --> 01:08:35.479
So I'm guessing that the, so the answer, the question is Maggie is this, belief that you have found confidence in is being able to find joy and.

01:08:35.979 --> 01:08:48.969
Confidence in who you are and what you're able to do and get away from a lot of the, uh, peer comparison that, uh, all of us at some point or the other, we fall victim to.

01:08:48.998 --> 01:08:50.399
I know I do all the time.

01:08:50.899 --> 01:09:13.848
Yeah, and I actually think that what I'm trying to say, and maybe not articulating it very well, is more that It's not a pure comparison anymore, I'm at the crag and I'm 54 years old and the other women who are there generally the other day are in their 20s.

01:09:14.348 --> 01:09:17.708
And so it's just not even it's not relevant.

01:09:18.208 --> 01:09:20.028
So I don't need to give.

01:09:20.528 --> 01:09:30.408
It's not that I don't need to give the giving mental energy to something like that is just such a waste of time because it's not relevant.

01:09:30.668 --> 01:09:32.308
It doesn't matter.

01:09:32.808 --> 01:09:43.618
what Matt, what should matter to me and what does matter to me is that I feel healthy and I, have a high level of mobility.

01:09:43.978 --> 01:09:44.608
and I.

01:09:45.108 --> 01:09:54.378
I'm able to try really hard and the body that I have now works really well.

01:09:54.878 --> 01:10:00.988
and I just being able to acknowledge that and give it the respect that it deserves, I

01:10:00.998 --> 01:10:04.888
that, yeah, you articulate it very clearly.

01:10:05.028 --> 01:10:12.208
I completely get it, which is, yeah, there's no reason to focus on things that are not energy positive.

01:10:12.708 --> 01:10:12.988
Yeah.

01:10:12.988 --> 01:10:14.298
And, and that's great.

01:10:14.478 --> 01:10:15.788
what about you, Chuck?

01:10:16.288 --> 01:10:21.688
Beliefs or habits in the last few years that have had, that have enhanced your life?

01:10:22.188 --> 01:10:26.168
along the same direction as Maggie.

01:10:26.688 --> 01:10:38.988
I see these young kids, amazing, early start to climbing, already have the kinesthetic sense to, to climb rock and, they have zero body fat.

01:10:39.488 --> 01:10:47.058
and I look at that and I go, I wouldn't trade my situation for that situation.

01:10:47.558 --> 01:10:50.998
For any amount of money in the world, I wouldn't go back.

01:10:51.108 --> 01:11:02.818
I wouldn't be that 20 year old or that even 30 year old or whatever they might be, um, in chain, in, in, in trade the knowledge.

01:11:03.378 --> 01:11:06.278
in the life experiences that I've had along the way.

01:11:06.278 --> 01:11:12.718
So I guess it gives me, what I've learned is I have this more relaxed attitude about it.

01:11:13.078 --> 01:11:22.438
So it's less about, the, what anyone else is doing or what anyone else thinks is important or should be the way.

01:11:22.878 --> 01:11:23.928
I've already got my path.

01:11:24.428 --> 01:11:37.128
I'm very happy with that path, and though I'm willing to look at what other people are doing and if it's something that I think is pretty amazing and wanna be part of, I might dabble in it.

01:11:37.628 --> 01:11:40.883
But at the same token, I'm pretty happy with the way things are going.

01:11:41.383 --> 01:11:44.708
so I, I'm just, I like the path I'm on.

01:11:44.773 --> 01:11:45.733
I'm gonna stick to it.

01:11:46.283 --> 01:11:48.888
the one thing I've added that I think is.

01:11:49.388 --> 01:12:01.088
fun being an older climber is when I see someone struggling and if they're receptive, if they're honestly, if they, they ask, what do you do here?

01:12:01.098 --> 01:12:03.948
how do I get, how do I climb like that?

01:12:04.508 --> 01:12:08.118
Or how do I do these moves on this climb that I just saw you on?

01:12:08.618 --> 01:12:11.058
I'm more, I'm excited to help them out.

01:12:11.388 --> 01:12:12.358
I'm really.

01:12:12.488 --> 01:12:14.638
And Maggie's the same way too.

01:12:14.918 --> 01:12:23.388
And I've become more I think it's, I think it's important for older experienced climbers to share their, that experience to make it better for others.

01:12:23.898 --> 01:12:25.998
and I've become more and more that way.

01:12:26.498 --> 01:12:28.978
and less focused on just myself.

01:12:29.478 --> 01:12:35.168
More on the community aspect, to the point of even, even making it safer.

01:12:35.748 --> 01:12:37.238
It's we see that frequently.

01:12:37.238 --> 01:12:44.448
That's one of the, probably one of our biggest pet peeves is people doing stupid things or risking themselves in stupid ways.

01:12:44.948 --> 01:12:51.638
And like a simple thing, like a stick clip, we watch people here because they've traveled somewhere by plane.

01:12:51.648 --> 01:12:53.298
They don't have a stick clip and they're.

01:12:53.693 --> 01:13:01.783
looking up at a first bolt that's way off the deck and they go, wow, this rock is really polished and slippery and these holes are they moved.

01:13:02.283 --> 01:13:03.823
It's hey, I've got a stick left.

01:13:03.863 --> 01:13:06.123
Do you want me to stick that for you?

01:13:06.133 --> 01:13:07.753
and they see us doing that.

01:13:08.033 --> 01:13:10.493
So they know that, we're playing it safe.

01:13:11.013 --> 01:13:11.753
The locals don't.

01:13:12.153 --> 01:13:16.063
they're pretty set in their ways about leaving the ground and being sketchy.

01:13:16.063 --> 01:13:16.423
Yeah,

01:13:16.453 --> 01:13:18.113
but their health insurance works here.

01:13:18.393 --> 01:13:18.993
Yeah, that's true.

01:13:19.493 --> 01:13:20.573
Their health insurance works.

01:13:20.843 --> 01:13:22.033
And they also know the moves.

01:13:22.163 --> 01:13:23.363
They've done it a million times.

01:13:23.413 --> 01:13:25.213
Probably on top rope the first time.

01:13:25.713 --> 01:13:33.193
the other thing too that we, that I've, we've started doing more is, studying and keeping a close eye on gear.

01:13:33.553 --> 01:13:34.463
fixed protection.

01:13:34.463 --> 01:13:41.123
we're, we've, pretty much every place we go now, we have all the equipment and we have the knowledge.

01:13:41.623 --> 01:13:44.283
So if we see something that's bad, we fix it.

01:13:44.653 --> 01:13:55.943
particularly on the routes where we're climbing or in the area we're climbing, we'll, we'll revolt an entire route or an entire wall or just certain anchors, depending on how bad they are.

01:13:56.493 --> 01:13:58.783
and then when we're done, we'll show them to people.

01:13:59.138 --> 01:14:07.618
we'll show them exactly what's wrong with it, why we've replaced it, and, what our recommendations are for the future and make, create this awareness.

01:14:08.058 --> 01:14:12.128
that's the direction I see my future and more of a climbing.

01:14:12.628 --> 01:14:16.128
I should say, he used to be really grumpy and anti social.

01:14:16.628 --> 01:14:20.898
So talking to people about these things is definitely a change.

01:14:21.398 --> 01:14:23.758
Engaging with other humans at the crag.

01:14:24.298 --> 01:14:24.788
Other than me.

01:14:24.788 --> 01:14:26.948
It

01:14:26.948 --> 01:14:31.008
wasn't so much that I was grumpy or anti social.

01:14:31.498 --> 01:14:35.144
It was just that, that I had I was focused.

01:14:35.644 --> 01:14:37.664
I was just, I was centrally focused.

01:14:37.665 --> 01:14:38.874
Which comes

01:14:38.874 --> 01:14:41.244
across as grumpy and antisocial to

01:14:41.244 --> 01:14:41.734
other people.

01:14:42.234 --> 01:14:47.164
And I, a lot of times I found other people to be a distraction.

01:14:47.664 --> 01:14:55.814
and it's something that I've learned to understand is part of the process now, because It's not going to change.

01:14:55.914 --> 01:14:57.254
so I've got to adapt.

01:14:57.754 --> 01:15:01.924
it used to be with my climbing, I could go places and not see anyone for days.

01:15:02.424 --> 01:15:04.264
that's my start in climbing.

01:15:04.774 --> 01:15:09.674
And then even if I went to a crag, a popular crag, you knew everybody that was there.

01:15:10.044 --> 01:15:12.244
all three other people.

01:15:12.744 --> 01:15:33.514
And now it's become so popular and in our planet, there's so many people now and you're, you have to be able to cope and deal with the fact that you're going to be on any given day, surrounded by lots of other people with different ideas and on how life is to be pursued and how climbing is to be pursued.

01:15:34.014 --> 01:15:40.544
And though that idea may not coincide with what my idea is, I have to at least be accepting.

01:15:41.064 --> 01:15:48.364
and ideally, I have to, we have taken upon ourselves to be, to be leaders by more example.

01:15:48.914 --> 01:15:55.104
rather than bringing a boom box to the crag and blasting our music for everyone to hear.

01:15:55.604 --> 01:16:00.314
we tend to show them that you can rock climb without that.

01:16:00.814 --> 01:16:07.164
and have civil conversations about it, and we're seeing things like that, shenanigans like that more and more.

01:16:07.584 --> 01:16:07.684
Yeah.

01:16:08.184 --> 01:16:16.609
Drones flying, that kind of Without asking, without prepping, without Saying, Hey, does anybody mind if a drone flies over?

01:16:16.639 --> 01:16:16.969
Yeah.

01:16:17.409 --> 01:16:17.839
Yeah.

01:16:18.039 --> 01:16:18.899
and red point.

01:16:19.229 --> 01:16:19.519
Yeah.

01:16:20.019 --> 01:16:20.919
Things like that.

01:16:20.920 --> 01:16:37.629
As you're trying to, take those deep breaths and try to focus and meditate and block out, uh, external things, you know, you'll hear the, the mellifluous sounds of a drone right behind you.

01:16:38.129 --> 01:16:40.069
I really appreciate that answer.

01:16:40.129 --> 01:16:47.899
And it also gives me a second to introspect because I'm 45 and I started climbing two decades ago.

01:16:48.129 --> 01:17:29.919
And I also started climbing in the, in the East coast and at the New River Gorge where I'm sure it's a bit busier, but it's nowhere as busy as Cracks in the West and as the red and I already find myself getting a little grumpy and judgy because yes, the lot of gym to crack people there and the people who you know, quote unquote bring the party to the crack and time with headphones and all of that and I try to check myself that One of the reasons I found joy in climbing is interacting with and bonding with people through this shared passion.

01:17:30.359 --> 01:17:48.939
when I do meet people like that at the crag, just reminding myself that we're all there because We love climbing, we love the outdoors, and try to keep that front and center in my interaction with them rather than, rather than the things that I may not find as, uplifting with their presence.

01:17:49.219 --> 01:17:50.029
I certainly found Chuck.

01:17:50.049 --> 01:17:53.279
And then secondly, this is, I did not expect this.

01:17:53.779 --> 01:18:03.109
As part of the answer, but I sound like you guys do a significant bit of, route maintenance, drag maintenance, and thank you for doing that.

01:18:03.209 --> 01:18:05.219
Thank you for being, good stewards.

01:18:05.259 --> 01:18:08.219
obviously you guys are humble and, just came out accidentally.

01:18:08.719 --> 01:18:17.589
Do you guys also do any kind of other advocacy work with, the access fund or any groups you might want to give a shout out to?

01:18:18.089 --> 01:18:19.529
And are you guys also.

01:18:20.029 --> 01:18:23.999
Beyond just, replenishment, are you also developing new routes?

01:18:24.079 --> 01:18:27.819
Because I know that is really tankless, tiring work.

01:18:28.319 --> 01:18:31.419
Yeah, we're definitely, we're members of the access fund.

01:18:31.419 --> 01:18:37.519
And usually what we do is also, how they have the joint memberships with local climbing coalitions.

01:18:37.929 --> 01:18:43.409
We'll usually, each pick one of our destinations throughout the year.

01:18:43.959 --> 01:18:49.099
and join, do our joint membership with whatever area that is.

01:18:49.599 --> 01:18:51.979
and route development you should talk about.

01:18:52.479 --> 01:18:56.059
Yeah, the route, I've done a lot of route development in the past.

01:18:56.319 --> 01:18:56.869
and it is.

01:18:57.369 --> 01:18:58.389
it is hard work.

01:18:58.389 --> 01:18:59.379
It's expensive.

01:18:59.459 --> 01:19:00.959
It's, time intensive.

01:19:01.459 --> 01:19:05.819
And as you alluded to very often, thankless.

01:19:06.259 --> 01:19:07.589
I thank you.

01:19:07.609 --> 01:19:09.329
Why did you put the bolt there?

01:19:10.213 --> 01:19:14.903
that's the rule of climbing or complain first and whatever else.

01:19:15.403 --> 01:19:15.693
Yeah.

01:19:16.193 --> 01:19:16.623
Yeah.

01:19:16.933 --> 01:19:18.783
And I don't think it's that great.

01:19:19.283 --> 01:19:19.713
Yeah.

01:19:19.873 --> 01:19:20.943
Whatever grade you've

01:19:20.973 --> 01:19:21.423
given it.

01:19:21.553 --> 01:19:25.003
But you've put up, what, two new routes this year, in 2023?

01:19:25.533 --> 01:19:28.793
Twenty Last, this past year you put up two new routes.

01:19:28.923 --> 01:19:29.423
Yeah.

01:19:29.923 --> 01:19:30.163
Yeah.

01:19:30.393 --> 01:19:34.893
So now if I find something that, that catches my eye, I'll put it up.

01:19:35.393 --> 01:19:38.713
and we still do that, but mostly it's maintenance now.

01:19:39.213 --> 01:19:43.153
I think there's a lot of climbing out there that it needs to be fixed.

01:19:43.653 --> 01:19:55.103
So we've gone through this thing of mass development, and we do need to develop more because the climbing community is growing, and to keep Jeep climbers happy, we need to spread them out a little if we can.

01:19:55.653 --> 01:20:08.633
at the same token, we can't neglect the routes that were put up 20, 30, years ago, sport routes that were, didn't necessarily have all stainless steel or, ideally everything should be glue ins now.

01:20:09.093 --> 01:20:12.673
And, so I'm trying to show people how to do that.

01:20:13.223 --> 01:20:23.158
we Also do clinics, for a couple events a year, one of them we do consistently is the International Climbers Festival in Lander.

01:20:23.208 --> 01:20:24.448
We do that every year.

01:20:24.908 --> 01:20:36.058
And we have a couple really popular clinics that we do, and this year we're morphing one into, Well, the one is called AARP, uh, Advanced Age Redpointing.

01:20:36.758 --> 01:20:37.888
AARP.

01:20:38.548 --> 01:20:40.408
Advanced Age Redpointing.

01:20:40.828 --> 01:20:41.458
I love that.

01:20:41.821 --> 01:20:42.711
So that was really good.

01:20:43.211 --> 01:20:44.561
And you can be any age.

01:20:44.561 --> 01:20:46.116
we love anyone.

01:20:46.616 --> 01:20:47.516
But we do get some.

01:20:48.016 --> 01:20:49.826
We get some older climbers, 72.

01:20:50.376 --> 01:20:50.796
Yeah.

01:20:50.986 --> 01:20:51.366
Yeah.

01:20:51.776 --> 01:20:53.216
60s, 70s.

01:20:53.216 --> 01:20:55.406
And the average age is usually around

01:20:55.406 --> 01:20:57.376
60 for the clinic.

01:20:57.916 --> 01:20:58.926
And that's fun.

01:20:58.927 --> 01:21:04.867
and then, we did, we used, we were doing one called the honeymoon's over and it was a couple's clinic.

01:21:05.417 --> 01:21:09.057
But we kept getting couples that pretty much had it dialed already.

01:21:09.057 --> 01:21:10.647
They didn't need the clinic.

01:21:10.647 --> 01:21:11.177
They

01:21:11.177 --> 01:21:13.296
really didn't need it.

01:21:13.297 --> 01:21:17.697
The couples who did not have it dialed could not agree on coming to the same clinic.

01:21:17.727 --> 01:21:18.477
So they never showed up.

01:21:18.477 --> 01:21:19.282
We wouldn't

01:21:19.282 --> 01:21:20.491
admit that they,

01:21:20.491 --> 01:21:20.894
yeah.

01:21:20.894 --> 01:21:22.627
The ones that should have been there.

01:21:22.627 --> 01:21:23.256
Yeah.

01:21:23.447 --> 01:21:26.347
so we're changing that one to, live to climb

01:21:26.347 --> 01:21:27.277
another day.

01:21:27.777 --> 01:21:35.347
So gear inspection, fixed gear inspection, PPE, personal protection equipment, and then also fixed gear.

01:21:35.797 --> 01:21:40.587
we're, we'll address stick clipping and how to, safely haul up a stick clip on route.

01:21:41.087 --> 01:21:48.097
because we see so many people haul up a stick clip without backing themselves up and just, things that people just don't think about.

01:21:48.117 --> 01:21:53.677
And then also how to actually, replace, even just replacing a perma draw.

01:21:54.177 --> 01:21:59.067
It's amazing how many people don't know how to do that.

01:21:59.567 --> 01:22:06.967
And for that reason are very uncomfortable attempting to do so just things like that, like everyday crag maintenance kind of things.

01:22:07.467 --> 01:22:22.837
We're finding, people will climb on a route and leave their draws on it, and then other people will climb on that route, just your standard nylon draw with aluminum carabiners, and that route might stay a project for three or four months.

01:22:23.337 --> 01:22:29.777
And those aluminum carabiners will wear out or the fabric will fray because it rubs across rock and no one looks at that.

01:22:29.967 --> 01:22:31.277
Hanging out there in the sun.

01:22:31.277 --> 01:22:33.897
They just assume if it's up there it's safe to clip.

01:22:34.397 --> 01:22:34.747
Yeah.

01:22:35.087 --> 01:22:37.467
Because that's what they do at the gym or whatever.

01:22:38.017 --> 01:22:45.837
we, the first thing we always do is inspect the gear on a project and fix things before we Get, totally invested in it.

01:22:46.147 --> 01:22:46.557
That's how

01:22:46.557 --> 01:22:47.517
he's lived so long.

01:22:47.937 --> 01:22:53.817
Thank you for, doing that work and sharing your hard earned wisdom and knowledge.

01:22:54.127 --> 01:23:08.097
Because certainly as climbing grows as a sport, there is a lot of information and courses and training on people and teaching people how to, hang board better, or even become generally stronger climbers, but.

01:23:08.597 --> 01:23:18.807
When it comes to crag hygiene, when it comes to all these little, bits of information that will keep both the crags and the climbers healthy on the long term.

01:23:18.827 --> 01:23:20.057
I think there is a gap there.

01:23:20.057 --> 01:23:27.577
So appreciations to you guys for stepping up and helping teach the rest of us how to, make all of those things better.

01:23:28.077 --> 01:23:31.777
Coming to the end of the conversation, kept you guys long enough.

01:23:31.827 --> 01:23:33.837
Just one or two fun questions.

01:23:34.337 --> 01:24:02.257
You mentioned the honeymoon, clinic and I didn't mean to ask you if you had a couple of, quick parting words of wisdom for couples wanting to travel and climb or do another activity together because, passion and shared activities takes you this far, but then there are other things that help keep the, magic going.

01:24:02.757 --> 01:24:03.277
What would,

01:24:03.327 --> 01:24:12.377
I think we're really lucky in that we have a shared passion for not only the same style of climbing, but the same style of routes that we climb.

01:24:12.937 --> 01:24:18.867
And, the fact that we climb at the same level is incredible.

01:24:18.897 --> 01:24:20.337
we're incredibly lucky.

01:24:20.887 --> 01:24:22.657
It wouldn't have to be that way.

01:24:22.667 --> 01:24:24.587
We could, it wasn't always that way.

01:24:24.627 --> 01:24:25.017
Yeah.

01:24:25.152 --> 01:24:49.151
but I think those things help, and if, obviously that's not possible in most cases, I think most relationships there's a disparity there or a difference of some kind, and we, like in the very beginning, our marriage vows, part of, one, one of our big sayings or big philosophies was that we're the joining of two solitudes.

01:24:49.651 --> 01:25:03.831
Maggie has her own personal ideas about things and beliefs and though they might be Similar, I have my own ideas about certain things and certain beliefs and, and I respect hers.

01:25:03.891 --> 01:25:05.331
She respects mine.

01:25:05.751 --> 01:25:17.781
We realize that we are two different people, but at the same token, because we are two independent, different people, we can fully rely on each other when we need to.

01:25:18.281 --> 01:25:24.391
So it's the complete opposite of what I call a dominant, non dominant couple.

01:25:24.891 --> 01:25:27.181
We're, we're both totally independent.

01:25:27.261 --> 01:25:30.721
We could, right now, today, survive without the other person.

01:25:31.221 --> 01:25:32.861
And that's what gives us strength.

01:25:33.361 --> 01:25:39.311
I think it's a side effect of having survived without each other for a huge chunk of our lives before we met.

01:25:39.321 --> 01:25:40.581
we met when we were older.

01:25:40.881 --> 01:25:48.121
So we definitely, have very developed personalities, individual personalities, by the time we met.

01:25:48.621 --> 01:25:49.171
So

01:25:49.671 --> 01:26:03.444
Any, and maybe looking at you, Maggie, for this one, any significant part of your personalities that you have to, let's say, subdue in order to make this union work.

01:26:04.033 --> 01:26:04.943
Absolutely.

01:26:05.203 --> 01:26:08.813
there are some things about us that are different, but some things that are very similar.

01:26:08.813 --> 01:26:16.203
And one of the similarities is that naturally we are both extremely OCD, generally type A people.

01:26:16.753 --> 01:26:24.113
but there's a slight imbalance there where, Charlie is more OCD than I am.

01:26:24.653 --> 01:26:39.473
and I'm enough less OCD that I have been able to consciously pull back and let go of some of that on my part.

01:26:39.913 --> 01:26:51.833
Like he really won't like if I put something in a cabinet, he won't look in the cabinet behind the front row to find what he's looking for.

01:26:52.383 --> 01:27:05.628
So all of his things I have in the front of the cabinets and my things behind because it's just not that important to me, but I know it's really important to him.

01:27:06.178 --> 01:27:10.818
yeah, I read this book years ago called Who Moved My Cheese?

01:27:11.318 --> 01:27:11.658
Yeah.

01:27:11.738 --> 01:27:12.358
I read that book, yes.

01:27:12.388 --> 01:27:15.598
It's, they often give it off as like management, business.

01:27:15.598 --> 01:27:22.538
yeah, it's more, it is more geared towards it, but it's letting go of that micromanaging aspect of things.

01:27:22.678 --> 01:27:23.618
And.

01:27:24.118 --> 01:27:41.098
And just I've just decided that some things just aren't that important to me because I know they're so important to him, even though they're not made, they're not big things, they're just little things that don't really change the outcome or quality of our lives.

01:27:41.108 --> 01:27:42.248
So I just go with it.

01:27:42.748 --> 01:27:46.968
There's another book on those lines that I like to reread every few years.

01:27:47.008 --> 01:27:49.828
It's called Don't Sweat the Small Stuff.

01:27:50.223 --> 01:27:50.963
Excellent book.

01:27:51.463 --> 01:27:51.843
Yeah.

01:27:51.973 --> 01:27:52.363
it's good.

01:27:52.473 --> 01:27:53.383
It's good for me.

01:27:53.383 --> 01:27:55.483
I'm not as OCD as I was.

01:27:56.033 --> 01:27:56.713
I think it's helped.

01:27:57.213 --> 01:27:58.883
Anything from you Chuck on that one?

01:27:59.433 --> 01:28:00.883
only I get to drive.

01:28:01.383 --> 01:28:01.833
Oh yeah,

01:28:02.193 --> 01:28:07.173
he drives and he also makes all of our meals except lunch.

01:28:07.673 --> 01:28:09.543
He makes every breakfast and dinner.

01:28:10.043 --> 01:28:11.693
That is 66%.

01:28:12.273 --> 01:28:13.853
66% is you Maggie.

01:28:14.303 --> 01:28:15.923
Then, unless you eat out.

01:28:16.215 --> 01:28:19.925
Yeah, every, I drive like once a year just to make sure I remember how.

01:28:20.015 --> 01:28:20.105
Okay.

01:28:20.934 --> 01:28:21.714
Fair enough.

01:28:22.014 --> 01:28:23.004
We need to divide.

01:28:23.034 --> 01:28:25.764
Uh, Duties and responsibilities.

01:28:26.664 --> 01:28:29.994
They are shared, but they don't need to be symmetrical.

01:28:30.569 --> 01:28:31.299
Yeah, that's true.

01:28:31.579 --> 01:28:32.109
Very true.

01:28:32.609 --> 01:28:33.319
Very true.

01:28:33.819 --> 01:28:36.749
Talking of meals, I think it's getting close to dinner time for you guys.

01:28:36.809 --> 01:28:39.119
Just maybe two fun questions.

01:28:39.619 --> 01:28:42.729
What was the best 10?

01:28:43.069 --> 01:28:51.029
I would have said 100 if you were in the US, but since you're in Mexico, what were the 10 that you, remember spending in the last, several months?

01:28:51.139 --> 01:28:51.589
Best

01:28:52.089 --> 01:28:52.689
10?

01:28:52.689 --> 01:28:54.614
Have we spent 10?

01:28:55.114 --> 01:28:55.624
Yeah.

01:28:56.089 --> 01:28:56.379
Okay.

01:28:56.559 --> 01:29:00.729
groceries, gas, beer for a Alejandro and

01:29:00.819 --> 01:29:00.969
all that.

01:29:00.969 --> 01:29:01.269
Yeah.

01:29:01.329 --> 01:29:01.689
Beer.

01:29:01.694 --> 01:29:03.519
We bought beer for some friends.

01:29:03.824 --> 01:29:04.084
Okay.

01:29:04.634 --> 01:29:09.204
we don't really indulge in luxury or Yeah, we're pretty simple.

01:29:09.754 --> 01:29:13.684
we haven't given it to him yet when we're leaving next week.

01:29:14.184 --> 01:29:17.154
And, it's the host and the owner.

01:29:17.554 --> 01:29:18.024
Here.

01:29:18.044 --> 01:29:24.764
And they drink Tecate, which is, you probably know is just water, but it's cheap.

01:29:25.264 --> 01:29:29.653
And, so we bought some really good Mexican brew.

01:29:29.654 --> 01:29:35.643
And that was about 10 bucks.

01:29:36.143 --> 01:29:42.103
hopefully they will enjoy imbibing it just as much as you enjoyed, Taking it out.

01:29:42.603 --> 01:29:49.853
Any favorite book or movie that, you would share with others?

01:29:50.353 --> 01:29:51.033
Nobody.

01:29:51.533 --> 01:29:51.973
Oh, yeah.

01:29:52.003 --> 01:29:53.333
Nobody was a good movie.

01:29:53.413 --> 01:29:53.763
Yeah,

01:29:53.763 --> 01:29:56.043
we saw the, the movie Nobody.

01:29:56.543 --> 01:29:56.963
Okay.

01:29:57.143 --> 01:30:00.133
It was like the last like newer movie that we've seen.

01:30:00.143 --> 01:30:06.933
We have a lot of old movies that we watch a lot, but yeah, that was like the best newer one.

01:30:06.933 --> 01:30:08.393
What's his name, Bob Odenkirk?

01:30:08.393 --> 01:30:09.283
Yeah, Bob Odenkirk.

01:30:09.773 --> 01:30:10.663
Ah, yeah.

01:30:11.093 --> 01:30:11.373
Yeah.

01:30:11.873 --> 01:30:12.343
Yeah.

01:30:12.503 --> 01:30:17.103
Bob Odenkirk is the guy in that, really good, Better Call Saul.

01:30:17.263 --> 01:30:19.733
I think it's Oh, I think so, yeah.

01:30:19.733 --> 01:30:20.193
Okay.

01:30:20.203 --> 01:30:21.043
Really good actor.

01:30:21.483 --> 01:30:22.103
Yeah,

01:30:22.303 --> 01:30:28.533
and you can't really you can't really tell what people much about nobody because it ruins it So you just have to see it.

01:30:29.033 --> 01:30:43.093
Sure Make a note of that one and then yeah final question if going back to food if you had to eat one meal for The rest of your life.

01:30:43.473 --> 01:30:44.393
What would that be

01:30:44.893 --> 01:30:45.873
have to be salmon?

01:30:46.373 --> 01:30:46.863
Yeah,

01:30:47.173 --> 01:30:56.078
I would Say pizza, but Charlie's pizza, he makes a really good healthy pizza, not really a pizza.

01:30:56.088 --> 01:30:58.658
It's like a pizza esque kind of a thing.

01:30:59.158 --> 01:31:02.158
Charlie, how would, Chuck, how would you cook your salmon?

01:31:02.478 --> 01:31:04.843
And, Maggie, what would you like on that pizza?

01:31:05.343 --> 01:31:05.703
How do you

01:31:05.713 --> 01:31:05.893
cook your salmon?

01:31:05.993 --> 01:31:13.093
I, we bake in a pan because all we have is a, gas range, propane range.

01:31:13.583 --> 01:31:17.053
but I, we've gotten, I've gotten really good at baking in pans.

01:31:17.113 --> 01:31:17.913
Yeah, really good.

01:31:18.033 --> 01:31:19.663
So I bake salmon in a

01:31:19.663 --> 01:31:20.073
pan.

01:31:20.123 --> 01:31:31.633
Yeah, that's also how he makes the pizza, but he makes it with, two like low carb tortillas with cheese in between them and then hot salsa for the sauce.

01:31:32.133 --> 01:31:39.773
Chicken, olives on top, and then more shredded cheese on top, and he bakes it in the pan.

01:31:40.263 --> 01:31:41.603
And it's so delicious.

01:31:42.103 --> 01:31:42.633
So delicious.

01:31:43.133 --> 01:31:45.083
Sounds very yummy.

01:31:45.463 --> 01:31:45.653
Yeah.

01:31:45.713 --> 01:31:48.013
I always want to, but I only

01:31:48.213 --> 01:31:48.533
get one.

01:31:49.033 --> 01:31:49.473
Okay.

01:31:49.973 --> 01:31:56.993
I will have to, think about the kind of beer I'll have to bring for you guys to be treated to a slice of this, decadent, pizza.

01:31:57.402 --> 01:31:59.262
It's been a wonderful conversation.

01:31:59.472 --> 01:32:01.552
Thank you so much for joining today.

01:32:02.052 --> 01:32:02.612
Thank you.

01:32:07.192 --> 01:32:07.822
Wow.

01:32:08.002 --> 01:32:10.882
I am so delighted with this conversation.

01:32:11.392 --> 01:32:14.332
This was my first time interviewing two guests together.

01:32:15.052 --> 01:32:17.992
But checking Maggie immediately put me at ease.

01:32:18.352 --> 01:32:20.122
With the down to it personalities.

01:32:20.902 --> 01:32:21.952
An easy demeanor.

01:32:22.792 --> 01:32:25.102
We talked about so many cool things.

01:32:25.792 --> 01:32:29.392
I loved their singular love and passion for the sport.

01:32:29.872 --> 01:32:32.062
Something I hope to carry forward.

01:32:32.662 --> 01:32:34.042
Over the next couple of decades.

01:32:34.702 --> 01:32:41.722
I'm grateful for the candor and sharing the relationship with each other as well as their own bodies.

01:32:42.412 --> 01:32:43.282
As they get older.

01:32:44.152 --> 01:32:45.292
And they're remarkable.

01:32:45.382 --> 01:32:47.782
Appreciation for where they are today.

01:32:48.472 --> 01:32:50.422
Loved there, easy vet as well.

01:32:50.962 --> 01:32:52.282
A R P.

01:32:52.882 --> 01:32:55.852
Or advanced age red pointing.

01:32:56.752 --> 01:32:57.892
I'm writing this one down.

01:32:58.822 --> 01:33:02.122
They also talked about the importance of making choices.

01:33:02.722 --> 01:33:09.112
If you want world-class excellence, you have to make hard choices of things you may have to give up.

01:33:09.742 --> 01:33:12.322
I'm odd and inspired with this power.

01:33:12.322 --> 01:33:12.742
Couple.

01:33:13.162 --> 01:33:14.032
Hope you are too.

01:33:14.782 --> 01:33:16.132
Thanks for tuning in France.

01:33:16.582 --> 01:33:17.872
If you enjoy the show.

01:33:18.262 --> 01:33:19.222
If you hate the show.

01:33:19.672 --> 01:33:20.392
Let me know.

01:33:20.662 --> 01:33:22.792
Kush at ages, athlete.co.

01:33:23.212 --> 01:33:25.582
Our DME on social media.

01:33:26.160 --> 01:33:27.000
Thank you.

01:33:27.300 --> 01:33:33.360
Tuning out until next time, stay adventurous, stay inspired, stay each lists.

01:33:33.570 --> 01:33:34.350
This is Kush Condell.

01:33:34.500 --> 01:33:37.530
Well from ages athlete, podcast