May 2, 2024

#19 Starting Late — Risk, Reinvention, and Entering the Arena Anyway

#19 Starting Late — Risk, Reinvention, and Entering the Arena Anyway

🌊"The biggest thing that impacts you when you first go out there, before I even surfed it, I just went out on a on a jet ski and sat there and watched, is the sound it makes when it breaks...its terrifying" 🏄🏽‍♀️ At the age of 59 years and 8 months, Conacher became the oldest person in the world to surf Maverick's 🌊, the "Mount Everest of surfing" 🏔️ one of the most challenging and dangerous surf breaks in the world, located near Half Moon Bay, California. What makes Conacher's...

Apple Podcasts podcast player icon Spotify podcast player icon RSS Feed podcast player icon YouTube podcast player icon Amazon Music podcast player icon
Apple Podcasts podcast player icon Spotify podcast player icon RSS Feed podcast player icon YouTube podcast player icon Amazon Music podcast player icon
Season 1

🌊"The biggest thing that impacts you when you first go out there, before I even surfed it, I just went out on a on a jet ski  and sat there and watched, is the sound it makes when it breaks...its terrifying" 🏄🏽‍♀️

At the age of 59 years and 8 months, Conacher became the oldest person in the world to surf Maverick's 🌊, the "Mount Everest of surfing" 🏔️ one of the most challenging and dangerous surf breaks in the world, located near Half Moon Bay, California. 

What makes Conacher's feat truly astonishing is the fact that he didn't start surfing until his 50s, wow! 🤯 Most accomplished big wave surfers start from a very young age, honing their skills over decades of experience. For Conacher to achieve this milestone at an age when most people are contemplating retirement is nothing short of extraordinary. 💪

Tune in for:

  • Scene by scene account of what it takes to paddle into 30-40 foot waves 🌊🌊🌊, from an 'ordinary' surfer's point of view
  • Training to survive hold-downs 20 feet under cold water 😫
  • Finding balance with a grueling career as a Wall Street banker "plan your vacations first…"? 🏦💰
  • Strategies on finding the perfect mentor / coach and community to fuel the journey 🧑‍🏫🧑‍🤝‍🧑
  • Setting audacious goals, and the dedication and joy that follows 🎯😁
  • Finally, my favorite, wear the 'Vulnerable Adult Learner' label with pride 👴🏄

References:

The Inertia: "How I Became the Oldest Person in the World to Surf Maverick’s for the First Time" by Lionel Conacher (March 29, 2023). Link to Article.

Bianca Valenti - Reknowned big wave surfer and Lionel's coach who prepared him for Mavericks Link to Website

Barbarian Days by William Finnegan: This Pulitzer Prize-winning memoir explores the author's lifelong passion for surfing and his experiences at various surf breaks around the world. Link to Book

BWRAG (Big Wave Risk Assessment Group): This organization provides safety training and education for big wave surfers. Link to Website

Patagonia PSI Vest: This inflatable vest is a crucial safety tool for big wave surfers, providing buoyancy in case of wipeouts and hold-downs. Link to Product

Surfline: This website provides surf forecasts, live cams, and other resources for surfers. Link to Website

Rob Case Paddle Surf: Rob Case is a renowned surf coach who offers instruction on paddling technique and pop-up mechanics. Link to Website

DMC Fins: Lionel mentioned this brand of surf helmets, which he wears for safety during his sessions. Link to Website

Maurten: This company offers a



---

🚀 Love the show? Here’s how to support it

If something you’ve heard here has stayed with you, made you smile, or helped you keep going, I’d be honored if you’d consider supporting the show. 👉 https://buymeacoffee.com/agelessathlete

📰 Subscribe to the Ageless Athlete newsletter ! 

1-2x a month, no spam. We share behind-the-scenes reflections, longevity tips, and athlete wisdom you won’t find anywhere else. You can sign up at https://www.agelessathlete.co/newsletter/ 📩

Support the show

WEBVTT

00:01:12.982 --> 00:01:17.332
Folks gathered around and welcome back to the Asian athletes podcast.

00:01:17.692 --> 00:01:18.532
This is your host.

00:01:19.282 --> 00:01:22.253
I'll speak to you from sunny San Francisco, California.

00:01:22.852 --> 00:01:27.982
Bringing you epic tales of age, defying limit pushing adventurers.

00:01:28.402 --> 00:01:31.673
Doing remarkable things in the great outdoors.

00:01:32.423 --> 00:01:34.703
The anticipation of today's recording.

00:01:34.912 --> 00:01:36.232
Give me goosebumps.

00:01:36.802 --> 00:01:42.263
I was reliving my own surfing beginnings as I prepared and met with Nature.

00:01:42.862 --> 00:01:51.862
Who at 60 was the oldest two w at Mavericks, one of the biggest and most data fighting big waves worldwide.

00:01:52.763 --> 00:01:59.152
While hat has no desire or expertise to surf big waves, just like Lionel.

00:01:59.212 --> 00:02:03.983
I did learn to serve in the cold waters around the San Francisco bay area.

00:02:04.492 --> 00:02:06.173
He just took it so much further.

00:02:06.917 --> 00:02:11.667
Most of the best surfers around learn surfing as kids.

00:02:12.146 --> 00:02:15.507
Just like the disciplines of gymnastics.

00:02:15.986 --> 00:02:18.656
Or say ballet surfing rewards.

00:02:19.286 --> 00:02:20.306
Early learning.

00:02:21.296 --> 00:02:25.377
So it is really astonishing that he did not.

00:02:26.247 --> 00:02:27.086
Start surfing.

00:02:27.417 --> 00:02:29.156
Until his fifties.

00:02:29.846 --> 00:02:31.137
Less than a decade ago.

00:02:31.917 --> 00:02:34.765
Lionel is a true ageless athlete.

00:02:35.252 --> 00:02:36.092
We will learn.

00:02:36.632 --> 00:02:40.173
From his beginnings as a competitive decathlete.

00:02:40.202 --> 00:02:44.402
And as yet, To participating in the world, triathlon championships.

00:02:44.882 --> 00:02:48.512
To riding in the tour de France to completing.

00:02:48.902 --> 00:02:51.842
Ultra endurance mountain biking races.

00:02:52.302 --> 00:02:55.062
For every decade of his life, since his twenties.

00:02:55.632 --> 00:03:00.342
He has set a monumental goal and then gone out and achieved it.

00:03:01.122 --> 00:03:05.952
Unbelievably, he did all of this while working as an investment banker.

00:03:06.552 --> 00:03:11.872
In wall street, not the cushiest of careers to allow for such explorations.

00:03:12.204 --> 00:03:13.224
In the outdoors.

00:03:13.979 --> 00:03:18.540
I absolutely loved this conversation and hope you will as well.

00:03:19.949 --> 00:03:22.560
I really appreciate you tuning in France.

00:03:23.100 --> 00:03:24.750
I would really love it.

00:03:25.019 --> 00:03:28.769
If you would leave a rating and a review in your podcast app.

00:03:29.339 --> 00:03:30.930
It will only take a minute.

00:03:31.752 --> 00:03:32.713
It really helps.

00:03:33.012 --> 00:03:34.362
Others discover.

00:03:34.932 --> 00:03:36.487
And learn from.

00:03:36.697 --> 00:03:37.949
these Asia's athletes.

00:03:41.582 --> 00:03:45.142
Hi Lionel, great to have you on Ageless Athlete.

00:03:45.892 --> 00:03:53.012
you tell us where are you, where you're from, and what did you have for breakfast today?

00:03:55.971 --> 00:03:57.492
Well, hi, and thanks for having me.

00:03:57.987 --> 00:04:02.147
uh, what I had for breakfast, I had, I had for breakfast, what I have every single day.

00:04:02.517 --> 00:04:12.408
I have a Crispix cereal with brand buds and a sliced banana and fresh raspberries and two cups of coffee and one glass of orange juice.

00:04:12.487 --> 00:04:15.228
And I have that same thing every single day.

00:04:15.807 --> 00:04:18.807
And when I travel, I bring, I bring brand buds with me.

00:04:19.305 --> 00:04:26.326
get whatever the local cereal is, but I always try and I always try and keep my eating very, very consistent no matter where I am.

00:04:26.966 --> 00:04:31.776
Traditions are great and being able to enjoy one's breakfast regardless.

00:04:32.675 --> 00:04:35.555
you eat before your morning surf or after?

00:04:36.281 --> 00:04:37.060
Always before.

00:04:37.985 --> 00:04:38.586
Ah,

00:04:39.000 --> 00:04:39.211
Yeah.

00:04:39.430 --> 00:04:39.610
Yeah.

00:04:39.610 --> 00:04:43.670
I know a lot of people don't like, like surfing on a, on a full stomach.

00:04:44.223 --> 00:04:50.872
I think it's cause I, you know, did cycling for such a long time and, and.

00:04:51.673 --> 00:04:58.392
And was, you know, very tuned into making sure that I was fueled properly.

00:04:58.413 --> 00:04:59.372
So I didn't balk.

00:04:59.543 --> 00:05:09.180
And, you know, when, when you're out surfing, you know, I'm, I'm normally out there for, you know, at least an hour and sometimes as long as three hours.

00:05:09.704 --> 00:05:14.634
You know, you, you've got no access to water typically when you're out there.

00:05:14.634 --> 00:05:18.658
So I, I just always make sure that I'm properly fueled before I go out.

00:05:18.872 --> 00:05:19.262
Super.

00:05:19.846 --> 00:05:24.326
We will hopefully get time to dive a bit into your nutrition practices.

00:05:25.127 --> 00:05:29.456
But again, I'm really excited to have you on the show.

00:05:29.487 --> 00:05:37.417
I feel this is going to be a very enlightening episode for me being a local Bay Area surfer myself.

00:05:37.983 --> 00:05:46.692
the chance to learn from your, from, from your background and how you managed to, uh, take your, uh, learnings and go and surf, uh, Mavericks.

00:05:47.139 --> 00:05:48.870
Let's jump right in.

00:05:49.420 --> 00:05:56.920
Can you paint a picture Lionel of what a wave like Mavericks actually looks like?

00:05:57.360 --> 00:06:01.211
looks like up close and then, yeah.

00:06:01.211 --> 00:06:09.711
How does it compare to the usual, uh, beach breaks an average person might be more familiar with?

00:06:11.016 --> 00:06:12.877
it's way bigger than you think it is.

00:06:13.487 --> 00:06:23.562
I think the first time I was out there, Mavericks typically doesn't break unless it's about a 20 foot face.

00:06:23.939 --> 00:06:32.292
what I've learned over the last couple of years is that it, it takes some combination of, swell size and period to break.

00:06:33.021 --> 00:06:34.591
that is greater than 20.

00:06:35.331 --> 00:06:36.805
It, it feels really big.

00:06:36.805 --> 00:06:41.946
compared to anything else, even the biggest, days at Ocean Beach.

00:06:42.295 --> 00:06:45.045
You can get a 20 foot face at Ocean Beach for sure.

00:06:45.497 --> 00:06:53.288
but for some reason Mavericks just feels bigger and more powerful and, just a lot more energy in, in, in terms of how, how it breaks.

00:06:53.288 --> 00:06:58.098
And, and it's such a, Wedge, um, of water.

00:06:58.574 --> 00:07:03.771
you know, the reef is down, I think around 20, 22 feet, something like that.

00:07:03.771 --> 00:07:17.766
And so, takes quite a, quite a swell before we'll, we'll start, we'll start to break, but like, like Jaws and like Nazare, the way the, uh, Topography underneath the ocean works with a canyon coming into a, reef.

00:07:17.903 --> 00:07:21.492
it allows Mavericks to get very, very big without closing out.

00:07:21.542 --> 00:07:46.970
in my experience and when it's huge, like it was at Christmas time this year, and you can only tow it, you know, when they were towing it Um, you know, when it was probably 50 feet face size, the, the, the biggest thing I, you know, and I've said this to everybody, the biggest thing that impacts you when you first go out there, certainly when, when I first went out there.

00:07:47.365 --> 00:08:00.081
Before I even surfed it, I just went out on a, on a jet ski and sat there and watched, is the sound it makes when it breaks the sound is huge and, and it's indescribable.

00:08:00.211 --> 00:08:04.352
And, and it's, it's, it's scary.

00:08:05.112 --> 00:08:06.281
The sound is scary.

00:08:06.281 --> 00:08:10.042
Um, so that, that would be the thing.

00:08:10.487 --> 00:08:18.456
That I would say that, that, you know, anybody that I, that, that I know that's gone out there for the first time, everybody's impacted by the sound it makes when it breaks

00:08:19.326 --> 00:08:21.216
Mostly my.

00:08:22.225 --> 00:08:31.566
recounts, or let's say my, um, understanding of the wave is from the words of, uh, pro surfers talking about the wave in videos.

00:08:31.716 --> 00:08:41.973
And they sound humbled by that same staggering scale of both the size and the sound.

00:08:42.024 --> 00:08:49.394
So hearing it from somebody who is, let's say, not quite a pro yet is, uh, is, is uniquely insightful.

00:08:50.019 --> 00:08:51.908
and never will be a problem, by the way.

00:08:53.107 --> 00:08:54.617
Let me ask this question.

00:08:54.927 --> 00:09:03.408
I have paddle out at ocean beach, which is our local beach in San Francisco, which can also be fairly scary and kind of intense, obviously.

00:09:04.138 --> 00:09:05.727
not on the biggest days.

00:09:06.107 --> 00:09:10.888
Maybe my biggest days out there would be like a double overhead day.

00:09:11.398 --> 00:09:18.977
Some ways, maybe a little bit bigger and just those days compared to, let's say a shoulder height day can be intense.

00:09:19.548 --> 00:09:25.367
I'm guessing you must also have paddled out at OB on those bigger days.

00:09:26.107 --> 00:09:27.077
Can you describe.

00:09:27.357 --> 00:09:40.748
Even that difference, uh, Lionel, which is surfing ocean beach at like a double overhead day, like a bigger day versus being at Mavericks on a 20 foot or greater day.

00:09:41.988 --> 00:09:55.100
so this may surprise you, but there's a group of us that are in our sixties that surf Mavericks is probably six or seven guys, that they're all in their sixties that surf Mavericks and, and I'm the noobie in that group.

00:09:55.544 --> 00:09:58.850
most of those guys have surfed it for, you know, 30 plus years.

00:09:59.326 --> 00:10:07.414
and, uh, you know, Christie Davis who surfed it, for probably 35 years, um, surfed it at age 70 last year.

00:10:07.414 --> 00:10:09.613
I think he's probably the oldest guy to ever surf Mavericks.

00:10:09.613 --> 00:10:17.029
and as soon as he did it, he, he moved up to Humboldt and he said he'd never surf Mavericks again, uh, after he did it.

00:10:17.235 --> 00:10:20.725
but that group of guys would all tell you.

00:10:21.265 --> 00:10:26.836
That they would rather surf Mavericks than surf Ocean Beach on a big day.

00:10:27.402 --> 00:10:38.267
cause as you know, paddling out, to get to the outside break at Ocean Beach on a big day, unless the period's really long and you've got a lot of time between sets.

00:10:38.986 --> 00:10:58.433
Is one of the hardest things to do in surfing in the world, I think, and, and I, and I, you know, had, had the pleasure of having had the opportunity to serve a lot of the North Shore and sort of big sunset and, and surf, and, there are very few places in the world that are as hairy to get out.

00:10:58.954 --> 00:11:27.917
As as Ocean Beach you know, what's it, I mean, the paddle out to Mavericks is a long paddle and, you know, it takes usually 30, 30, 35 minutes, something like that to get out if you're going the long way, or if you're going the short way, it takes about 20 minutes, but other than being a long paddle, it's not particularly hard to get out there, and then I would say the biggest, Difference is Mavericks is is because it's a point break is way more organized than the notion beaches.

00:11:28.702 --> 00:11:36.049
I think that the consequences that at Ocean Beach can be, probably as severe as Mavericks.

00:11:36.049 --> 00:11:39.769
And I mean, you got a lot more water moving around and in a lot different ways.

00:11:39.899 --> 00:11:52.946
And, and even and even at at sunset on a big day, I've had, I had my worst hold down I've ever had anywhere at Sunset, um, not at Mavericks and, and I've fallen plenty at Mavericks.

00:11:52.946 --> 00:12:01.811
I mean, I've, I've had, I probably, I think I've probably done 25 sessions at Mavericks over the last three years.

00:12:01.931 --> 00:12:02.531
And.

00:12:03.163 --> 00:12:07.373
without a doubt, the worst hold down I ever had was at Sunset Beach.

00:12:07.373 --> 00:12:16.039
I had a two way fold down at Sunset Beach and I wasn't wearing my Patagonia vest and I was, yeah, that was gnarly.

00:12:17.129 --> 00:12:23.019
And I've been, you know, that includes, I like, I've been, I've been washed through, through the boneyard at Mavericks on, on a big day.

00:12:23.100 --> 00:12:29.879
Um, and, and the worst, the worst experience that I had was it was at sunset for sure.

00:12:30.850 --> 00:12:54.525
And, and I, and I think that the, you know, Ocean Beach, Sometimes on big days, I paddle out at ocean beach and I see, I see people out there and not that I'm anyone to talk cause I'm, I'm still, you know, a relatively new surfer, but, um, but I see some people that have paddled out or try to paddle out on big days at ocean beach and you just shake their head cause they shouldn't be there.

00:12:54.596 --> 00:13:11.730
They shouldn't be doing what they're, you know, and, and, and as, as I'm sure, you know, we have, Usually one to two drownings a year at Ocean Beach and, and typically it's a surfer and it's somebody who's, you know, who's just underestimated the power of the ocean out there.

00:13:11.799 --> 00:13:19.080
Um, you know, a big day at Ocean Beach, there's a lot of water moving around and a lot of rip tides going every which way.

00:13:19.080 --> 00:13:20.289
And it's, you know.

00:13:20.625 --> 00:13:21.435
I don't need to tell you.

00:13:21.435 --> 00:13:23.085
You're, you're, you're well familiar with it.

00:13:23.085 --> 00:13:26.254
It, it, it can be, it, it can be scary for sure,

00:13:26.869 --> 00:13:36.133
Thanks for, uh, describing the, uh, let's see the differences between surfing at other places.

00:13:36.613 --> 00:13:56.303
like Ocean Beach and also at Mavericks and uh, despite whatever, you know, you have said about Mavericks perhaps being more approachable in some ways, you have not convinced me yet to join you on your, on your next session at, at, Mavericks.

00:13:59.298 --> 00:14:11.639
Yeah, I would love to actually go deeper into the day when you made your debut as the, um, older surfer to, uh, paddle out at Mavericks.

00:14:12.591 --> 00:14:24.451
Take us through how you decided what was the right day and time to paddle out on, and then also a little bit into your pre surf ritual.

00:14:25.961 --> 00:14:28.572
Food, gear checks.

00:14:29.272 --> 00:14:33.241
Maybe any mental prep that happened that day.

00:14:33.731 --> 00:14:43.197
Maybe you meditated and then, uh, geared up and got ready to paddle out, would love for you to take us through that.

00:14:43.616 --> 00:14:43.907
Sure.

00:14:44.626 --> 00:14:56.259
and firstly, just, just to clarify, so, I, I believe, and, and I've talked to everybody that, that has surfed Mavericks for a long time, that I was the oldest person to surf Mavericks for the first time.

00:14:56.259 --> 00:15:03.137
So I was, I was 59 and a half, when I first caught a, a successful wave at Mavericks.

00:15:03.448 --> 00:15:23.374
And, that was after starting, I, I started surfing, um, when I was about 53 and, and I decided to, to surf Mavericks in my 60th year because, um, in my life, I've always, on, on, on my big decade birthdays, I've always decided to do something.

00:15:24.334 --> 00:15:26.153
a big physical challenge.

00:15:26.214 --> 00:15:31.813
And, um, and previously it had been primarily in the cycling realm.

00:15:32.277 --> 00:15:43.899
for my, uh, 50th birthday, I, rode Leadville, um, which, which is the highest mountain bike race in the world, 103 miles, all above 10, 000 feet.

00:15:44.355 --> 00:15:49.629
and then when I was 40, I did seven straight days of the Tour de France.

00:15:49.830 --> 00:15:54.669
And when I was 30, I competed in the world triathlon championships.

00:15:54.754 --> 00:16:00.253
and then prior to that, I was, a, uh, uh, decathlete and, and then also play football in college.

00:16:00.302 --> 00:16:10.442
And, so I've always chosen to do on big decade birthdays, a physical challenge, and I'd been fascinated with Mavericks before I started surfing, actually.

00:16:10.888 --> 00:16:14.658
I used to go down and when I first moved to San Francisco, I'd go down and watch the competitions.

00:16:14.658 --> 00:16:21.918
And I, I, I just, for some reason, it, it got into my imagination, um, as something amazing.

00:16:22.738 --> 00:16:39.393
And, so I decided to do it and I hired a coach, a woman named Bianca Valenti, who I'm sure you, if you don't know her, you've seen Bianca, uh, around ocean beach and she's, she's kind of queen of ocean beach and she's queen of Mavericks.

00:16:39.908 --> 00:16:47.638
I asked her whether she would, um, would coach me after, a long interview, she finally decided that she, that she would, she would agree to coach me.

00:16:47.638 --> 00:16:56.408
And so, so she and I started working, together in, uh, March of 2021.

00:16:58.621 --> 00:17:01.370
and she made me do all kinds of things.

00:17:01.370 --> 00:17:06.240
We did, you know, two, uh, two day breath hold coaching sessions.

00:17:06.309 --> 00:17:13.222
And we did a paddle from, from Cronkite to Sausalito, nine mile paddle.

00:17:13.222 --> 00:17:16.274
And we did, all kinds of training at Ocean Beach.

00:17:17.115 --> 00:17:22.134
And on bigger days and then, um, down at Scott's Creek on bigger days.

00:17:22.134 --> 00:17:31.855
And, and then, and then also down at, at, uh, steamer lane on, on big days, all, all with the goal of preparing to, to, to be able to serve Mavericks.

00:17:31.855 --> 00:17:43.798
And we went out and did, whole bunch of, of, uh, safety stuff, jet ski safety stuff, we did, a two day safety summit, Maverick safety summit, um, with all the, all the regular guys.

00:17:44.287 --> 00:18:09.639
so I put about, you know, before, before I actually paddled out for the very first time with the intention of trying to surf Mavericks, which would have been in November of, um, 2021, I'd done a lot of work and, you know, I spent the entire summer, up at my, my summer home in Canada, prone paddling, you know, paddling a couple of miles a day, every day.

00:18:09.639 --> 00:18:23.647
And, when I actually went out to try and surf Mavericks and I, I did probably five sessions where I attempted to catch waves and fell and wasn't successful.

00:18:23.902 --> 00:18:30.038
and I, and I would say that, and I've said this to a number of people who are surfing Mavericks for the first time.

00:18:30.508 --> 00:18:32.428
The best thing you can do is fall.

00:18:32.567 --> 00:18:36.748
The earlier you fall, the more you realize, okay, this is what I'm in for.

00:18:37.067 --> 00:18:41.929
and you can kind of take the, the worry of what's going to happen.

00:18:41.929 --> 00:18:47.278
And, and when I fell the first time, you know, I had a, you know, decently long hold down.

00:18:48.018 --> 00:18:52.018
I was very, very confident in my ability to hold my breath.

00:18:52.018 --> 00:18:59.355
I mean, in my, In the breath hold work we did, I got, I got up to four minutes, holding my breath on static lying face down in the pool.

00:18:59.546 --> 00:19:07.434
and what they say is that if you can, you know, hold your breath for, for four minutes, then active, you, you can probably do half.

00:19:07.531 --> 00:19:19.587
and, you know, in the longest hold down, you know, if you had a three wave hold down at Mavericks even if it was on a 20 second period day, the longest you're going to be underwater is a minute.

00:19:20.343 --> 00:19:22.573
Which is a tremendously long time.

00:19:22.573 --> 00:19:23.363
Don't get me wrong.

00:19:23.583 --> 00:19:29.163
Particularly when you're getting thrashed around and you're, you get pushed down 20 feet and you're underwater and everything.

00:19:29.163 --> 00:19:31.623
And you don't know which way is up and it's black and everything.

00:19:32.113 --> 00:19:40.777
But, but if, if you've done the work and you know that you can hold your breath for, for four minutes in a static position.

00:19:41.262 --> 00:19:44.323
you can probably hold your breath for two minutes in an active position.

00:19:44.823 --> 00:19:47.823
even if your lungs are screaming when you're at a minute.

00:19:47.823 --> 00:19:47.918
That's it.

00:19:48.278 --> 00:19:49.317
You still got some time.

00:19:50.018 --> 00:19:50.968
You're not going to black out.

00:19:50.968 --> 00:19:51.238
You're good.

00:19:51.238 --> 00:19:53.817
You know, you're, you're, you know, so, so you've got time.

00:19:54.038 --> 00:20:04.632
The longest hold down, I think I probably have ever had, which was, which was when I was at, sunset is like maybe 30, 30, 32 seconds.

00:20:05.051 --> 00:20:07.451
I count, they tell you not to count, but I always count.

00:20:07.451 --> 00:20:08.372
I count Tacomas.

00:20:08.632 --> 00:20:14.459
cause I've got, little friend of mine, Aaron Brooks, who's a, uh, She's, she's an amazing surfer.

00:20:14.462 --> 00:20:17.824
and, she told me that the kids in Hawaii all count Tacomas.

00:20:17.844 --> 00:20:19.913
They, they practice when they're driving around.

00:20:19.913 --> 00:20:22.795
And, you know, when, when I was a kid, we used to play Volkswagen.

00:20:22.795 --> 00:20:26.134
You used to count count Volkswagen Beals when you're driving on a long drive.

00:20:26.134 --> 00:20:35.753
And, and they, they do a variation of that game where they, The first Tacoma they see, they hold their breath, and they have to count 10 Tacomas before they can take another breath.

00:20:36.024 --> 00:20:46.784
But there's Tacomas all over the place in Hawaii, so, you know, you could be holding your breath for 15 seconds, or you could be holding your breath for a minute, but, you know, probably not longer than a minute.

00:20:46.784 --> 00:20:51.253
So, anyway, I count Tacomas whenever I fall.

00:20:52.038 --> 00:21:00.918
and I know that if, you know, if I'm at 20 Tacomas, I've got a good 30 or 40 more Tacomas in me before I got any issues.

00:21:00.999 --> 00:21:03.288
it's a way to help me stay very calm.

00:21:03.693 --> 00:21:07.723
you know, one of the sayings in big wave surfing is panic equals death.

00:21:07.834 --> 00:21:13.794
And so it's really important, no matter what's happening, to stay calm and not panic.

00:21:14.265 --> 00:21:33.335
and so all of that's background to, you know, when I first paddled out there and first tried to catch, um, a wave there, I fell, I, I fell probably on the first six waves that I tried to catch and had, you know, varying degrees of hold downs and because of the preparation I'd done.

00:21:33.664 --> 00:21:38.355
I was fine and I've actually never pulled my my CO2 cartridge at Mavericks.

00:21:38.854 --> 00:21:45.003
I, I've been under for a long time, but I've never felt the need to, to pull the, to pull the cartridge, uh, to get to the top.

00:21:45.915 --> 00:21:56.213
that, that was kind of my, my, first experience that Bianca was very, um, strict with me and 10 still is, um, some, sometimes.

00:21:56.622 --> 00:21:59.382
I'll text her and say, you know, what do you think about tomorrow?

00:21:59.382 --> 00:22:01.692
And, and she'll go, yeah, tomorrow's not a Lionel day.

00:22:02.711 --> 00:22:03.682
Don't go out tomorrow.

00:22:04.142 --> 00:22:11.406
but, you know, the first, You know, five or six times we went out, it was on, you know, smaller, smaller side of Mavericks.

00:22:11.406 --> 00:22:14.396
So, you know, maybe, maybe 20 feet, not more than 25 feet.

00:22:14.396 --> 00:22:17.428
And, and the wind conditions were, were pretty favorable.

00:22:18.367 --> 00:22:22.577
the day that I caught, actually caught my first wave and rode it right down to the channel.

00:22:23.317 --> 00:22:25.168
I think there were only six or seven of us out there.

00:22:25.345 --> 00:22:26.654
It wasn't a huge day.

00:22:27.345 --> 00:22:28.295
it was a beautiful day.

00:22:28.295 --> 00:22:38.039
It was really, really glassy and, Grant Washburn was out there and Grant, as you may or may not know, is, is, you know, kind of the mayor of Mavericks these days.

00:22:38.192 --> 00:22:40.422
He kind of took over Jeff Clark's spot.

00:22:40.451 --> 00:22:45.612
Um, and, and I think Grant's probably surfed Mavericks more than anybody ever in the history.

00:22:45.984 --> 00:22:52.025
because he surfs it every time it breaks and, and he's always out there and he's an amazing human.

00:22:52.409 --> 00:23:16.615
and I'm considering myself to be extraordinarily lucky that, uh, he and I become friends and, and, uh, and he, uh, He's been amazingly helpful to me, you know, over the last couple of years as I've been surfing it and always full of suggestions and always willing to ask, answer any question you ask him and he's just, he's just a wonderful human and I didn't really know him that well.

00:23:16.615 --> 00:23:18.134
I'd met him once or twice.

00:23:18.344 --> 00:23:24.044
Um, he had done a coffee table book on Mavericks back in the 90s, and I, and I bought it.

00:23:24.104 --> 00:23:25.884
I found a copy of it.

00:23:26.124 --> 00:23:34.381
It's out of print, but I found a copy of it, we, Bianca and I paddled out that day, which was in, uh, February of 2010.

00:23:35.580 --> 00:23:36.191
22.

00:23:36.848 --> 00:23:41.118
Grant was out there and we were sitting around, uh, the sets were very far apart.

00:23:41.578 --> 00:23:47.940
And, um, and I said to him, you know, Grant, I got this coffee table book that you, created.

00:23:48.010 --> 00:23:52.192
and when I catch my first wave of Mavericks, I'm going to get you to sign it for me.

00:23:52.882 --> 00:23:55.561
And he looked at me and he laughed and he said, I hope you have it in the car.

00:23:55.561 --> 00:23:57.301
Cause you're going to catch your first wave today.

00:23:57.882 --> 00:24:04.317
And I said, I said, I, I said, I don't, I don't, but, you know, but I'd love to catch my first wave today.

00:24:04.317 --> 00:24:07.995
And he said, okay, well, just stick with me and I'll, and I'll, I'll get you into it.

00:24:07.995 --> 00:24:09.515
And Christy Davis was out there.

00:24:09.575 --> 00:24:12.464
Um, and Christy was 69 at that time.

00:24:12.924 --> 00:24:18.174
Uh, and there were, there were four or five other guys and Bianca was the only woman as she often is.

00:24:19.170 --> 00:24:22.960
anyway, all of a sudden Grant said, here comes a set.

00:24:22.960 --> 00:24:25.410
And I look out on the horizon, I don't see anything.

00:24:26.009 --> 00:24:26.359
And.

00:24:27.180 --> 00:24:37.480
And, but sure enough, about a minute later set comes and he says, I'm going to take the first wave and you take the second wave.

00:24:37.847 --> 00:24:40.847
and he said, just look where I take off and just take off a little bit inside me.

00:24:41.038 --> 00:24:47.429
And, uh, anyway, the wave came, he, he took off, he catches, he catches it, he almost never falls.

00:24:47.878 --> 00:24:52.028
So he's, he's not a good barometer of what it can be like.

00:24:52.348 --> 00:24:57.368
Uh, anyway, I just, on the next wave, I turned and paddled and caught it and got to my feet.

00:24:57.949 --> 00:25:01.538
And, uh, the next thing I know I'm, I'm ripping down the face on the wave.

00:25:01.787 --> 00:25:06.746
you know, and one of the things that I wrote in the article that I wrote, that was in the inertia is.

00:25:07.746 --> 00:25:45.627
What nobody tells you is that even on, even on a very glassy, non windy day, it's super bumpy and, you know, and you're going, you go, you go from, zero to 24, 25 miles an hour in the first 10 feet, like right, you, you get to speed right away and, you know, and if you're successful in getting to your feet, then all of a sudden you've, you've got these bumps happening as the wave goes over the reef, there's some ledges that form, if you watch videos of guys surfing Mavericks, there, there's a couple of drops that you hit.

00:25:46.077 --> 00:25:54.952
They're not big, but, but you're going fast, and, and you can see them, you can see them forming up in front of you, so you, you know, like, they don't catch you by surprise, you can actually see them.

00:25:56.613 --> 00:26:00.051
Anyway, I'm, going down the face, and I can see Grant.

00:26:00.663 --> 00:26:18.362
Probably 300 yards in front of me, um, sitting in the channel at the end, you know, we're, we're, we're the wave ends and he's, he's got his arms and he's, and he's, he's waving at me and I don't know what he's doing, but I'm just looking at him trying to get to him.

00:26:18.692 --> 00:26:24.031
And, um, and I actually rode the wave all the way right past him and gave him a high five.

00:26:24.031 --> 00:26:26.051
And, and that was the first wave I caught.

00:26:26.082 --> 00:26:28.322
And I said to him, what, what were you waving at?

00:26:28.322 --> 00:26:30.412
He goes, he goes, you were fading too much.

00:26:30.412 --> 00:26:34.822
You were about to get mowed down by the, by the wave, which I had no idea.

00:26:34.961 --> 00:26:41.528
Like, you know, I just, You know, I didn't get hit from behind by the wave, which is not a pleasant experience, by the way.

00:26:41.578 --> 00:26:42.588
I've had that happen to me.

00:26:42.669 --> 00:26:49.269
It's, it feels like you get, you get run over by a Mack truck when you get hit by the wave from behind.

00:27:48.025 --> 00:27:56.663
So then I paddled, back up to the, to the lineup and Christy Davis was there and Christy gave me a high five and said, you know, congratulations.

00:27:56.663 --> 00:27:57.553
They all call me Nelly.

00:27:58.296 --> 00:27:59.826
Bianca's nickname for me is Nelly.

00:27:59.836 --> 00:28:01.256
So all those guys call me Nelly.

00:28:01.942 --> 00:28:02.942
and he goes, way to go Nelly.

00:28:02.942 --> 00:28:04.981
Uh, I knew you were going to catch your wave today.

00:28:04.981 --> 00:28:13.528
And I said, you know, Christie, I, I know, I know you're the oldest guy to surf Mavericks, but I might be the, be the oldest guy to surf Mavericks for the first time.

00:28:13.528 --> 00:28:15.822
And he said, no, you're, you're, most definitely that.

00:28:16.412 --> 00:28:23.622
And, uh, I said, I said, well, you know, gives me, gives me hope that I, I've got another 10 years to surf Mavericks.

00:28:23.721 --> 00:28:24.812
And he goes, why is that?

00:28:24.812 --> 00:28:29.442
And I said, well, you know, you're, you're 10 years older than me and, and you're still surfing Mavericks.

00:28:29.442 --> 00:28:32.062
And he said, he said, well, don't use me.

00:28:32.152 --> 00:28:35.182
I, you know, I might, I might be surfing it for another five years, who knows?

00:28:36.112 --> 00:28:38.812
So anyway, that was the first day that I caught a wave.

00:28:38.812 --> 00:28:40.822
And it was a, it was cool.

00:28:40.912 --> 00:28:43.172
I was ha, and I was ha, I didn't try and catch another one.

00:28:43.192 --> 00:28:52.362
I just, I was happy and, uh, I sat out in the lineup and watched the other guys for another, you know, a half an hour, an hour and then, and then paddled in.

00:28:52.382 --> 00:28:54.272
But, uh, it was, it was a fun day.

00:28:55.480 --> 00:28:56.560
counting Tacomas.

00:28:57.500 --> 00:29:04.850
One, two, three, four, maybe in San Francisco, uh, you know, we should replace them with counting Teslas.

00:29:04.920 --> 00:29:05.299
I suppose.

00:29:05.299 --> 00:29:05.450
Yeah.

00:29:07.240 --> 00:29:10.390
But one Tesla, two Tesla is shorter than one Tacoma, two Tacoma.

00:29:11.060 --> 00:29:11.539
That's right.

00:29:11.590 --> 00:29:12.090
That's right.

00:29:12.876 --> 00:29:14.876
this is quite the, uh, quite the story.

00:29:14.876 --> 00:29:17.846
Uh, thanks for, uh, walking us through.

00:29:17.846 --> 00:29:21.977
You shared so much more than what I had initially, uh, asked for.

00:29:22.622 --> 00:29:24.566
I'm going to, Pick a few things here.

00:29:24.566 --> 00:29:26.056
So many, so many good gems.

00:29:26.575 --> 00:29:31.980
Firstly, paddling out, you went five sessions without catching a wave.

00:29:33.289 --> 00:29:44.806
I know that, uh, again, on surfing, much smaller, but still intimidating days for me at, again, at, Ocean Beach and some other places.

00:29:45.496 --> 00:29:48.601
It is so scary to paddle into once in a lifetime.

00:29:49.121 --> 00:30:02.891
first wave and then to have to not catch a wave and, you know, do the, uh, proverbial, uh, paddle back of shame and then go in day, day in, day out.

00:30:03.931 --> 00:30:07.851
What kept you going through those four or five sessions?

00:30:08.246 --> 00:30:18.472
Until the sixth session, when you actually caught a wave and those sessions, Lionel, where you didn't catch a wave, how many waves did you try to paddle for?

00:30:18.972 --> 00:30:22.773
Would you try many waves and then not make those waves?

00:30:23.143 --> 00:30:30.893
Or were you just, uh, working up the gumption to paddle for a paddle and, and, and, and not make it.

00:30:31.192 --> 00:30:41.678
And then the day you actually paddled and caught that wave, What was that defining difference in what helped you, uh, succeed?

00:30:42.402 --> 00:30:44.349
um, it's a good, it's a good question.

00:30:44.616 --> 00:30:55.233
in terms of keeping going and trying it, you know, when I started surfing, I started surfing at, at Cronkite or Rodeo Beach over Marin, which is, which is not an easy place to surf.

00:30:55.343 --> 00:30:58.962
And, and a lot of people say that if you can catch a wave at Cronkite, you can catch a wave anywhere.

00:30:59.586 --> 00:31:04.137
I, I started, started surfing there and didn't know what I was doing.

00:31:04.467 --> 00:31:10.116
And I went there every day and just kept paddling out and, you know, a Cronkite.

00:31:10.601 --> 00:31:18.470
if, if you, if you get washed in, you get washed way, way South on the beach and you have to do the walk of shame all the way back up to the, to the North end of the beach to paddle out again.

00:31:19.095 --> 00:31:24.332
I just always had, determination, to, you know, complete what I start.

00:31:24.372 --> 00:31:33.772
And so for me, it wasn't a matter of if it was a matter of when, and I just knew that if I kept trying that I, you know, eventually I would, I would, I would succeed.

00:31:34.623 --> 00:31:45.823
I can say that, you know, being, just being out at Mavericks, like I, I was at a Mavericks five sessions this winter and I only caught one wave all winter.

00:31:46.417 --> 00:31:51.560
and for me, it's just that, that being, out there is so amazing.

00:31:51.570 --> 00:31:53.990
Like it, it's, it's, it's a, it's a.

00:31:54.995 --> 00:31:56.235
It's a magical place.

00:31:56.235 --> 00:32:04.875
There's something very spiritual about it and and the people that go there a lot really feel that and it's kind of, you know, their church, if you will.

00:32:05.211 --> 00:32:10.320
you know, this from being a, even, even if, if you get outside it'll be and you're sitting there.

00:32:10.757 --> 00:32:12.836
And you don't catch a wave.

00:32:13.507 --> 00:32:14.317
It's okay.

00:32:14.477 --> 00:32:28.637
Like it's just, it's a, it's an amazing place to be and, and just be sitting floating in the ocean and having, you know, dolphins breach around you and seeing the odd whale and seeing seals and whatnot.

00:32:28.697 --> 00:32:30.247
It's, it's amazing.

00:32:30.326 --> 00:32:35.076
And for somebody like me who didn't grow up around the ocean and didn't grow up with that.

00:32:35.637 --> 00:32:42.307
To have discovered that at this point in my life and have that be part of my everyday routine is an amazing thing for me.

00:32:42.387 --> 00:32:45.089
And so, I just like being out there.

00:32:45.149 --> 00:32:47.409
And if I don't catch a wave, it's fine.

00:32:48.045 --> 00:32:58.735
you know, if Bianca were on the, on this call with us, she would say, The one thing Lionel doesn't, um, have, have any, um, trepidation about is paddling into a wave.

00:32:58.735 --> 00:33:00.185
Like, I'll, I'll paddle into anything.

00:33:00.275 --> 00:33:02.924
I'll, I'll, it's all, I'll always try.

00:33:03.308 --> 00:33:06.328
and so for me, it wasn't a matter of, of not trying.

00:33:06.798 --> 00:33:12.759
I paddled for a lot of waves and missed them, was in the wrong spot, had them go underneath me, whatever.

00:33:13.653 --> 00:33:20.203
The worst and best day that I've ever had at Mavericks was not this winter, but a year ago.

00:33:20.653 --> 00:33:21.484
And it was big.

00:33:21.833 --> 00:33:24.793
it was probably 35 feet and.

00:33:25.188 --> 00:33:26.248
Everybody showed up.

00:33:27.138 --> 00:33:33.128
Greg Long was there, and Twiggy Baker was there, and the Mels were there, and Luca Ciobo was there.

00:33:33.678 --> 00:33:34.918
Everybody was there.

00:33:35.038 --> 00:33:37.847
Um, there was probably 50 guys in the lineup.

00:33:38.486 --> 00:33:43.486
that day, I paddled for 10 waves and caught 10 waves.

00:33:44.071 --> 00:34:13.766
And every single time I caught a wave, I would look left, and Twiggy would already be on it, or Greg Long would already be on it, or Pete Mell would already be on it, you know, lots of times people will ride two or three guys to the wave at Mavericks, there's enough room to do that, but I never felt confident enough that I wouldn't fall in front of them, you know, so I wouldn't take the chance, and so I caught ten waves, And pulled out because someone, you know, one of those world class guys was already on the wave and I just didn't want to be on it.

00:34:14.487 --> 00:34:21.108
you know, that was a very frustrating day for me because it was really good and, and I didn't catch a wave all day.

00:34:21.507 --> 00:34:40.079
and I came in from the session and, And I said to my wife that night that I, you know, it was frustrating because I caught 10 waves, but someone was on every one I caught and I pulled out and, and she looked at me and she said, yeah, but you were one of 50 people that were in the world that were out at Mavericks today.

00:34:40.835 --> 00:34:42.434
You were out there with all those guys.

00:34:42.565 --> 00:34:48.704
And, and, you know, and it took her to put it in perspective for me and, and just how lucky I was to even be out there.

00:34:49.652 --> 00:34:51.701
that, that's kind of how I, how I look at it.

00:34:51.701 --> 00:34:58.103
And, you know, and I, and I, I'll keep paddling out there, you know, so long as I stay physically fit.

00:34:58.599 --> 00:35:05.094
you know, I, I can totally see doing it until I'm, you know, You know, 70, like I like it a lot.

00:35:05.103 --> 00:35:05.724
It's fun.

00:35:06.153 --> 00:35:12.074
and when you, when you catch, when you catch a wave there, the adrenaline rush lasts for a long time.

00:35:12.173 --> 00:35:15.574
Like it's, it's a, you know, it's a cool, it's a cool thing.

00:35:15.673 --> 00:35:22.353
And, you know, if you, if you actually step back from it and look at surfing in general, I mean, I, I surf almost every day.

00:35:22.773 --> 00:35:26.123
I usually surf for at least an hour if I'm at Kron, maybe an hour and a half.

00:35:26.617 --> 00:35:35.304
yesterday I think I caught 10 waves at Kron, and over, you know, whatever it was, 70 minutes or 80 minutes.

00:35:35.844 --> 00:35:39.784
The average ride at Kron is maybe 10 seconds?

00:35:40.909 --> 00:35:41.460
Okay.

00:35:41.789 --> 00:35:51.929
And so out of, out of an hour and a half, I was actually surfing on a wave for a hundred seconds.

00:35:52.858 --> 00:35:54.889
I mean, that's, that's just the facts of, of surfing.

00:35:54.889 --> 00:35:55.159
Right.

00:35:55.208 --> 00:36:03.858
And, and so you better like being in the water and you better like being out there and you better like the rest of the experience because the actual surfing part is a very small part of it.

00:36:04.398 --> 00:36:12.786
And Mavericks, Mavericks is kind of a bigger aspect of that with, you know, more consequences and, you know, bigger risk reward, et cetera.

00:36:12.786 --> 00:36:14.775
But, but it's, it's basically the same,

00:36:15.340 --> 00:36:16.340
Every bit of that is true.

00:36:17.082 --> 00:36:23.212
The ocean and being out there is such a magical environment.

00:36:24.817 --> 00:36:43.288
Even particularly so living in San Francisco and being able to drive, you know, 15 odd minutes and being in this absolutely wild and exhilarating environment that is the Pacific.

00:36:44.077 --> 00:36:47.052
And just that contrast between the two is just amazing.

00:36:47.322 --> 00:36:48.152
It's incredible.

00:36:48.531 --> 00:36:52.652
me like you, I did not grow up visiting the ocean.

00:36:53.422 --> 00:37:01.786
So for me, just being able to be out there and experience mother nature at its apex.

00:37:02.125 --> 00:37:03.195
is a gift.

00:37:03.225 --> 00:37:13.335
And I try to remind myself with every session at OB where I return, uh, to shore, let's say empty handed, that it is a privilege.

00:37:13.755 --> 00:37:19.865
My first time surfing OB, I went with my friend Josh and Josh, you know, uh, much better surfer.

00:37:19.865 --> 00:37:23.245
I sat on one of his small, uh, shortboards.

00:37:23.665 --> 00:37:28.076
And after some point he said, Hey, Kush, aren't you going to try to catch a wave?

00:37:28.400 --> 00:37:37.360
And I'm like, no, I'm just having such a incredible time just sitting in the ocean and absorbing this three dimension environment.

00:37:37.380 --> 00:37:39.320
So I completely agree with everything that you said there.

00:37:40.440 --> 00:38:47.988
And then I think keeping side of that through every session and you seem to have a greater capacity for being able to appreciate that and being able to.

00:38:48.535 --> 00:38:49.346
Keep coming back.

00:38:49.998 --> 00:39:08.823
One thing also here is some of us when we go surfing, you know, there's that mental aspect and we'd also want to get into that a little bit where so much of it is about being able to conquer one's demons and paddle out and actually try to catch a wave and not like fake, fake a try at a wave.

00:39:10.183 --> 00:39:14.903
That particular day you were out there where you caught a number of waves.

00:39:15.693 --> 00:39:22.723
And you were at this world stage, you know, this is not your typical lineup with your, uh, everyday locals.

00:39:23.053 --> 00:39:27.083
These are the titans of the big surfing world.

00:39:27.533 --> 00:39:33.493
And you were able to battle with confidence and catch those waves.

00:39:34.043 --> 00:39:36.123
A lot of people would not do that.

00:39:36.203 --> 00:39:45.960
You know, they would often be shy of being looked of looking bad in front of, uh, again, uh, that, that crew of champions.

00:39:46.649 --> 00:40:07.489
Describe for us, Lionel, that moment of choosing, of paddling and then dropping into a big wave and how that is different than, let's say, your typical day at Fort Cronkite, which for people who don't know is this surf spot in San Francisco.

00:40:07.619 --> 00:40:10.679
It's pretty well known, so I don't think people will get mad at me for talking about it.

00:40:10.709 --> 00:40:12.769
It's just north of the bridge.

00:40:12.980 --> 00:40:14.289
You know, it's, it's a small wave.

00:40:14.449 --> 00:40:16.619
So describe for us those sensations.

00:40:17.274 --> 00:40:26.084
The, the speed, the sound, that one way that you got, it sounds like Grant called you into it, but I'm guessing that doesn't happen.

00:40:26.849 --> 00:40:30.779
Every time you have to choose your waves and you have to inspect the lineup.

00:40:30.809 --> 00:40:34.189
So talk to us about how did you choose the waves?

00:40:34.389 --> 00:40:35.599
You have to be so selective.

00:40:35.951 --> 00:40:42.761
what are those, uh, sensations that you experience and how they are different than, uh, than smaller waves?

00:40:42.761 --> 00:40:43.871
You talked about the bumps.

00:40:44.001 --> 00:40:45.631
I think that's probably part of that.

00:40:46.859 --> 00:40:55.980
the biggest thing, you know, I, I wear, I wear an Apple watch when I, um, surf and I've got, and I've got, um, the Dom patrol app on it.

00:40:55.989 --> 00:41:03.295
So it, gives you the speed that you're surfing at through the wave.

00:41:03.346 --> 00:41:05.895
And, and I think the biggest difference.

00:41:07.810 --> 00:41:17.760
is the speed with which the wave starts from when, from when you, when you decide that you, that you're going to paddle for a wave.

00:41:18.886 --> 00:41:30.363
when I'm at Mavericks, I tend to be, all the guys in, in our sixties tend to be a little bit more on the shoulder than, than deep in, deep in the bowl.

00:41:30.673 --> 00:41:36.120
Um, the wave, stands up a little less severely.

00:41:36.620 --> 00:41:49.943
Although typically what ends up happening, is those of us that sit a little bit on the outside, We'll wait for a wide swinger, um, that is too severe for the inside guys to actually catch.

00:41:50.699 --> 00:41:59.609
and so it tends, you know, it tends to be less, less severe than, than catching a wave deep in the bowl, but, but still ends up being relatively severe.

00:41:59.609 --> 00:42:04.564
I, I would say the, And so when I sit out there, that's what I'm looking for.

00:42:04.564 --> 00:42:08.349
I'm looking for a wave, that isn't going to work for the guys that are inside.

00:42:08.579 --> 00:42:14.333
Um, cause, cause I don't like, the thought of dropping in on somebody at Mavericks.

00:42:14.513 --> 00:42:16.113
For me, I just don't feel comfortable.

00:42:16.493 --> 00:42:20.313
That I, that I'm not going to fall in front of them and I don't want to cause any, any accidents.

00:42:20.353 --> 00:42:22.523
And so for me, safety is paramount.

00:42:22.553 --> 00:42:36.117
And so for me, the biggest thing is, is just making sure that I'm choosing the wave wisely and safely, you know, and, and so that, that's my number one thing.

00:42:36.117 --> 00:42:44.403
And, and, uh, you know, and I've, because when you, when you start to paddle for a wave, it takes over all your senses, right?

00:42:44.433 --> 00:42:50.973
You can't, there's not a lot of other things that you can focus on, um, other than, you know, getting, figuring out how to get to your feet.

00:42:51.203 --> 00:42:56.358
And um, and that's, you know, for me, that, that, that's a, that's a huge, it takes a huge amount of focus.

00:42:56.408 --> 00:43:01.262
And so, so you want to make sure that, that you're not going to impact anybody else negatively.

00:43:01.659 --> 00:43:03.709
in, you know, when, when you decide to go for it.

00:43:04.500 --> 00:43:05.769
The biggest thing is the speed.

00:43:05.779 --> 00:43:09.049
It's just how fast the wave picks you up and.

00:43:09.769 --> 00:43:33.801
launches you down, down the face and, there's that moment right before you know, you've caught it where you feel your board accelerating and you feel like you're going to catch it that is, to me, that's the most terrifying spot because it's like, the closest feeling for me is, is if you're on a roller coaster and you're going up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up.

00:43:33.801 --> 00:43:43.401
And then when you get to the top right before you, you go over the edge and go ripping down, is that fraction of a sec Se.

00:43:44.201 --> 00:43:54.601
Of a second of, oh my God, what's gonna happen, And, and you know, you kind of lose, you know, the bottom drops out and that's, it feels like that.

00:43:54.601 --> 00:44:06.580
It feels like if, you know, that's the closest physical sensation that I know of, that that is right when you catch the wave and then all of a sudden you're ripping down the face and, And you got it.

00:44:06.590 --> 00:44:07.980
You got to get to your feet right away.

00:44:08.140 --> 00:44:09.890
And you haven't got a lot of time to get to your feet.

00:44:10.009 --> 00:44:14.306
I, I belly wrote a wave at Mavericks once, you don't want to, you know, I did it successfully.

00:44:14.306 --> 00:44:16.366
I got to the bottom, but you do not want to do that.

00:44:17.346 --> 00:44:21.516
It's a, it's a terrible, that's a terrible, you know, and I just didn't get to my feet.

00:44:21.567 --> 00:44:28.996
I went to pop up and I hit a bump and my arms collapsed and I ended up on my belly and I wrote, wrote down the face on, on, on my belly.

00:44:29.092 --> 00:44:30.112
And that was terrifying.

00:44:30.792 --> 00:44:33.840
That was, uh, probably the most terrifying thing I've ever done out there.

00:44:34.039 --> 00:44:49.459
so there's that fraction of a second when, when, you know, you know, you've caught it and then you just got, you got to get your feet and then, and then, you know, start absorbing with your legs and, um, And it, you know, and I'm sure you've experienced it when you've been at Ocean Beach on a bigger day.

00:44:49.489 --> 00:45:00.403
Like, it's the same, it's the same feeling, as you would have on a 10 foot wave at OB, except it's twice as big, or three times as big, depending on the situation.

00:45:00.413 --> 00:45:13.301
But it's that, that moment right when you know you've caught it and knowing that you gotta, you know, get to your feet and get your hands forward and get in the fighter position and do all the things that you've been trained to do.

00:45:13.929 --> 00:45:14.759
absolutely.

00:45:14.889 --> 00:45:29.201
It is different, but a lot of the preparation that you put into, uh, getting to that first day at Mavericks probably helped, lessen the fear and, uh, get you comfortable.

00:45:29.451 --> 00:45:38.830
One other question I had about just trying to the scene the lineup that is, that is at, at Mavericks.

00:45:38.850 --> 00:45:54.775
How is that, how is the lineup different than again, a day at, let's say a different type of break at OB, at another, uh, surf spot, maybe it could be Santa Cruz, it could be Hawaii.

00:45:55.535 --> 00:45:58.175
You are there along with many others.

00:45:58.255 --> 00:46:02.295
Many of them have been surfing for Mavericks for over 30 years.

00:46:02.645 --> 00:46:06.826
Some of them are world renowned surfing celebrities.

00:46:07.065 --> 00:46:09.815
Some of them could also be newer surfers out there.

00:46:10.295 --> 00:46:12.045
What is the vibe like?

00:46:13.290 --> 00:46:17.580
Are people somewhat welcoming?

00:46:17.800 --> 00:46:29.032
You mentioned that there is some regulation that does happen, people don't tolerate, others who may not be contributing to the fun and the safety of the, uh, situation.

00:46:29.494 --> 00:46:30.855
Is there localism there?

00:46:31.173 --> 00:46:36.151
are there some people who are, uh, who are not as happy to see others in the water?

00:46:36.781 --> 00:46:39.611
Just quickly, if you can, Describe to us.

00:46:39.983 --> 00:46:54.809
I would, I would say my experience, my experience may be different, slightly different than other people's experience Because I was being coached by Bianca and she introduced me to the lineup she didn't introduce me to the lineup until she knew I was ready.

00:46:55.439 --> 00:47:00.127
And, and I think people knew that, she's enormously respected out there.

00:47:00.127 --> 00:47:04.360
And, you know, and, and at this point probably she's surfed it more than any other woman.

00:47:05.197 --> 00:47:06.577
you know, she's, she surfs it a lot.

00:47:06.617 --> 00:47:09.387
I mean, she, she surfs it almost every time it breaks.

00:47:09.387 --> 00:47:14.548
And so, she's established her, her place in the lineup there for sure.

00:47:14.548 --> 00:47:16.898
And, and so because I was introduced by her.

00:47:17.458 --> 00:47:20.488
And, you know, and I, and I listen to what she says.

00:47:20.488 --> 00:47:49.656
I, even now, like, you know, even though we don't have a, you know, formal coaching relationship anymore, she will tell me, you know, what, what she thinks in terms of if I'm, if I'm in a wrong spot or whatever, she's not afraid to tell me, you know, if I'm, if I'm not doing something right, which hopefully isn't very often, but, um, but I, I would say on, on, In general, the lineup is, is pretty welcoming there and, yeah, and, and, and there's definitely, you know, like, like in every surfing lineup there, there is a hierarchy for sure.

00:47:49.656 --> 00:47:56.366
And, and if someone, you know, if one of the more established guys is going, you know, People back.

00:47:56.396 --> 00:47:58.076
People back off and let them go.

00:47:59.038 --> 00:48:06.917
you know, and I wouldn't say that the, the group of older guys that is there get special treatment, um, in any way, shape or form.

00:48:07.267 --> 00:48:13.945
Um, maybe a little bit of elbow room, uh, that, you know, somebody completely unknown wouldn't necessarily have.

00:48:15.082 --> 00:48:19.163
but by and large it is, it, it is a pretty welcoming spot.

00:48:19.252 --> 00:48:23.042
And, um, you know, certainly different than the vibe.

00:48:23.262 --> 00:48:30.922
Um, at first point at Pleasure Point in Santa Cruz, certainly different vibe than, than in Hawaii, for sure.

00:48:31.451 --> 00:48:48.274
And, and, and it's interesting, you know, if you, talk to Nathan Florence or you talk to Kai Lenny, um, you know, which I've done, they, they like coming to Mavericks because, because the, the vibe is very, always very welcoming.

00:48:48.550 --> 00:49:00.310
you know, the community is very welcoming and it's a, um, it's a community for sure, you know, and, and, uh, and we've got the Maverick surf boards and in, uh, in a couple of weeks and, and everybody will be there and.

00:49:00.875 --> 00:49:05.285
And it's going to be fun to see everybody and be part of that, part of that group.

00:49:05.326 --> 00:49:08.245
It's, it's a real, it's a really strong community.

00:49:08.757 --> 00:49:16.417
I think the biggest thing in terms of being accepted into that community is safety and knowing.

00:49:17.702 --> 00:49:23.794
people knowing that you've done the work and know, what the safety protocol is.

00:49:23.794 --> 00:49:29.160
And, you know, one of the things, you know, Bianca had never had a, had a jet ski.

00:49:29.160 --> 00:49:31.340
None of the women had a, had jet ski support.

00:49:31.420 --> 00:49:40.196
So I bought, a jet ski for Bianca and, you know, and, and we trained and we, and we learned how to, you know, do the safety stuff and be there and be supportive.

00:49:40.196 --> 00:49:45.334
And, all of that kind of contributed, I think, to being, to being part of that community.

00:49:45.334 --> 00:49:55.206
And, you know, I think at the end of the day, and when Bianca first, interviewed me and was deciding whether she was going to coach me or not.

00:49:55.206 --> 00:50:07.668
A lot of it for her, most of it for her was about would I respect the wave you know, or was I just some asshole investment banker wanting to get a notch in my belt and, and, do my Everest, if you will.

00:50:07.858 --> 00:50:23.905
And, and it was really important to her that I, you know, that I was doing it for the right reasons and that I was going to respect the wave because the people that surf it a lot all, you know, as I said earlier, it's like, it's like it's their church.

00:50:24.105 --> 00:50:28.815
And, and so if you're going to come to someone's church, be respectful.

00:50:29.568 --> 00:50:33.843
and that's, that's really how It works out there.

00:50:34.971 --> 00:50:39.661
The church of mavericks sounds like a.

00:50:41.071 --> 00:51:12.538
place for worship for the chosen few and the fact that you were taken there with Bianca Valenti, one of the all time greats of big wave surfing for our generation, that along with your demonstrated drive Deep preparation allowed you to earn your place in the ranks or the lineup.

00:51:13.188 --> 00:51:19.968
I'm curious, how did you get Bianca to, to coach you?

00:51:19.988 --> 00:51:21.733
I did not know that she is.

00:51:23.233 --> 00:51:24.153
An established coach.

00:51:25.143 --> 00:51:35.873
Did you, uh, just shower her with Bitcoin besides, besides demonstrating your, your zeal and dedication?

00:51:36.384 --> 00:51:39.063
How did that, uh, transpire?

00:51:40.637 --> 00:52:00.060
how, how I decided to surf Mavericks was, um, or at the time I decided to surf Mavericks, I had been surfing, with a, with a guy named Marcel Soros, who Marcel is, um, old time, um, O'Neill pro, you know, from, from the, from the late seventies, early eighties.

00:52:00.090 --> 00:52:03.710
Um, and he, he's, he is the bona fide mayor of pleasure point.

00:52:04.140 --> 00:52:09.510
Um, was down there and, and, uh, was part of that crew with flea and all those guys.

00:52:09.862 --> 00:52:11.502
all those, all those famous guys.

00:52:11.762 --> 00:52:19.842
And, and I met him, um, when he was a rep for, for a company that, that, that I was an investor in.

00:52:20.422 --> 00:52:30.862
And, um, and so he, Spent every Friday morning with me at, Pacifica when he was coming up and doing his rounds, um, to, to the, to the, uh, surf shops up here.

00:52:31.403 --> 00:52:43.610
and so he would go and surf with me and then he took me down to Pleasure Point and, um, we surfed down there a bunch and we were down there one day, maybe five years ago, four years ago.

00:52:44.340 --> 00:53:09.701
And, uh, And it was big, uh, and we were surfing, we were surfing Pleasure Point, First Point, uh, and the faces were maybe 15 feet or something, it was, so, but, Pleasure Point is very forgiving, it's, you know, a 15 foot wave of Pleasure Point is a pretty easy wave to get into, and, anyway, I was catching waves and having a lot of fun, and at the end of that session, I asked Marcel, do you think I could ever surf Mavericks?

00:53:10.370 --> 00:53:12.380
And he was like, yeah, sure you can, let's go next week.

00:53:12.951 --> 00:53:16.590
And I was like, no, I don't want to do that.

00:53:16.870 --> 00:53:23.800
I, you know, I decided I wanted to have a coach and then I decided that I wanted to have a woman coach.

00:53:23.800 --> 00:53:35.145
And the reason I decided I wanted to have a woman coach is because I thought a woman would take it more seriously and be more safety oriented and, and not, not be, um, You know, cavalier about it.

00:53:35.215 --> 00:53:42.568
And, and, uh, and so I was aware of Bianca, you know, cause, you know, she's, as you know, she's, she's pretty famous.

00:53:42.568 --> 00:54:06.781
And, during, I had never really surfed ocean beach, uh, and during COVID, uh, in March of 20, um, They closed all the beaches in Marin, and so I started driving over the bridge and surfing at Kelly's, and again, I had never really surfed Ocean Beach, and so I started surfing Kelly's and, uh, and then, you know, moved south as I got better and more confident.

00:54:07.281 --> 00:54:19.201
Um, and I saw her on the beach one day and, uh, and so I went up and introduced myself to her and, and, uh, told her I wanted to surf Mavericks and asked her whether she would coach me and she literally laughed and walked away.

00:54:20.638 --> 00:54:23.688
and, uh, and so, um, I knew.

00:54:23.773 --> 00:54:48.549
Paige Elms, um, cause I sat on the board of Surf Canada with her, um, Paige is a, is another, uh, one of the top women big wave surfers in the world and, and, uh, from Maui and a Canadian actually, and which I am, and so I reached out to Paige and I asked Paige to vouch for me to Biarca and to at least ask Biarca to take a meeting with me and hear what I had to say.

00:54:48.859 --> 00:54:52.699
And so Bianca reluctantly at, after Paige, Paige reached out to her.

00:54:52.699 --> 00:54:58.931
Bianca reluctantly, agreed to meet with me and that, so that's how I ended up getting her to, to coach me.

00:54:59.431 --> 00:55:07.308
Connections and, uh, some social engineering will, will get us everywhere I would love to, Get, uh, some of them on the show.

00:55:07.308 --> 00:55:12.888
I think they would be hugely inspiring to others just as, just as you are.

00:55:13.228 --> 00:55:13.648
Bianca.

00:55:13.743 --> 00:55:15.093
Bianca is amazing.

00:55:15.153 --> 00:55:19.443
Um, so she, she's actually starting a coaching business now.

00:55:19.930 --> 00:55:27.471
And, and being pretty exclusive about it, um, she, you know, she, she doesn't, she, she's coached forever.

00:55:27.471 --> 00:55:30.981
I mean, she's, she's taught little kids to surf and done that.

00:55:31.001 --> 00:55:34.442
She'd never, I was the first person that she ever coached to surf Mavericks.

00:55:34.971 --> 00:55:41.431
Um, and I think, and I think she's decided she's going to take on one Mavericks student a year.

00:55:41.446 --> 00:55:55.514
Um, but she's in the process of, of launching a, a new coaching, business and, and she's, she's in a, she's an incredibly thoughtful, amazing coach, really, really good coach.

00:55:55.554 --> 00:55:59.284
And, and I could, could I have surfed Mavericks without her?

00:55:59.314 --> 00:55:59.884
Maybe.

00:56:00.164 --> 00:56:01.855
Could I have done it safely without her?

00:56:01.855 --> 00:56:02.444
No way.

00:56:02.905 --> 00:56:25.230
You know, and, and that, that was the biggest thing that I would say, you know, coming back to, you know, the first times I was out there and falling first time I fell, I felt prepared and so I, I didn't, there wasn't anything to be scared of because I knew, I knew that we had done the work and, and that I had done the work and that was all Bianca that wasn't, you know, I just did what she told me to do.

00:56:25.540 --> 00:56:28.310
I mean, she told me I didn't cut any corners.

00:56:28.380 --> 00:56:29.150
I did everything.

00:56:30.355 --> 00:56:37.895
And I, you know, and I, I come from a long life of, of doing extreme sports and doing, you know, high level competition and stuff.

00:56:37.895 --> 00:56:40.745
And so I, like, you know, I'm, I'm a coachable person.

00:56:41.164 --> 00:56:47.014
you know, my, my training is, is having been coached my whole life, I think also played into that, but.

00:56:47.424 --> 00:56:49.834
But I, I let her coach me and I did what she said.

00:56:50.297 --> 00:56:59.997
And, and that's, you know, that's something that is interesting that, uh, that I'll say, that, you know, in, in the article that I wrote, there was an article written about me.

00:57:00.609 --> 00:57:04.079
and, and they called me a Val and I had no idea what a Val was.

00:57:04.393 --> 00:57:29.394
And it turns out val means, means vulnerable adult learner and, and I would, I would say the reason I wrote the article that I wrote, and frankly, the reason that I agreed to do this podcast is because I look at it as a 61 year old person and, to answer the question that you asked earlier about what, you know, when I decide to paddle into a wave, am I worried about what people are thinking about me?

00:57:29.674 --> 00:57:30.605
No, I don't.

00:57:30.684 --> 00:57:31.884
I never worry about that.

00:57:32.190 --> 00:57:34.790
I worry about doing the best that I can do with what I have.

00:57:34.975 --> 00:57:36.505
I know I look like a kook.

00:57:37.155 --> 00:57:38.326
I'm six foot five.

00:57:38.326 --> 00:57:39.065
I'm skinny.

00:57:39.065 --> 00:57:40.545
I, you know, I wear a helmet.

00:57:40.545 --> 00:57:42.455
I'm one of the few people that wear it, wears a helmet.

00:57:42.925 --> 00:57:45.895
I, I know I look, I look ridiculous out there.

00:57:46.061 --> 00:57:51.241
but also know that I'm one of the, one of, one of the people that is having the most fun.

00:57:51.591 --> 00:57:55.971
And, and for me, that's at the end of the day, that's the most important thing.

00:57:55.971 --> 00:58:03.781
And, And to be, um, you know, when I got called a Val, initially, I was thought, well, that's a slur.

00:58:03.781 --> 00:58:05.411
And then I thought, no, actually, I'm going to embrace that.

00:58:05.411 --> 00:58:06.261
I like, I like that.

00:58:06.461 --> 00:58:09.291
I like, I like being a vulnerable adult learner.

00:58:09.291 --> 00:58:22.792
And I think as people age, particularly around physical things, as people age, if they can allow themselves to, to be vulnerable and learn new things, their life will be way richer for it.

00:58:23.552 --> 00:58:25.663
They'll live a much, much richer life.

00:58:26.196 --> 00:58:34.881
I mean, I, I, I thank my lucky stars that I found surfing and discovered it because every single day and I, I, it's, it's interesting.

00:58:34.881 --> 00:58:40.672
I in the last week I've had a whole bunch of people ask start asking me about what I'm going to do for my 70th.

00:58:41.042 --> 00:58:43.012
And I'm like, I'm 61.

00:58:43.042 --> 00:58:44.112
I'm about to turn 62.

00:58:45.382 --> 00:58:49.222
I, every time I surf, I'm get, I'm still getting better.

00:58:49.772 --> 00:58:57.522
It's one of the only things that I do in my life that I'm getting better at physically every day.

00:58:58.302 --> 00:59:03.252
The only other thing that I do that I'm getting better at is I play mandolin and I started playing mandolin when I was 50.

00:59:03.252 --> 00:59:16.116
And I'm you know, and I, and I think I'll continue to get better at mandolin for the, you know, maybe, maybe longer than, than I'll be able to continue to get better at surfing, but I feel like I've got at least another five.

00:59:16.786 --> 00:59:19.056
Maybe hopefully 10 more years.

00:59:19.451 --> 00:59:22.641
of being physically able to get better at surfing every day.

00:59:23.692 --> 00:59:36.461
And, and to have that as a 60, almost 62 year old person and have something that, that, you know, I'm that excited about and enjoy doing that much is such a gift.

00:59:36.492 --> 00:59:39.111
you know, so for me, that's, that's, that's the best thing about it.

00:59:40.160 --> 00:59:52.956
Besides being eminently coachable, you are also really easy to speak with it's almost like you, you're anticipating some of my questions even before I asked them.

00:59:53.317 --> 00:59:58.350
I did want to ask you about, VAL, the Vulnerable Adult Learner Thank you.

00:59:58.945 --> 01:00:24.294
term that I saw in read the article and it's so cool how you have turned what might be a slur into almost a badge of honor where I also experienced that to some degree where the older I get, the more I care less about what people are thinking about me being a kook in the water or a kook out of the water doing something else.

01:00:24.294 --> 01:00:29.414
And I think many people who are listening to the show, most people listening are.

01:00:29.864 --> 01:00:32.484
between the ages of 35 to 60.

01:00:33.404 --> 01:00:40.524
And I think many of them are going through that same experience where it just matters less what people think.

01:00:40.564 --> 01:00:43.857
And yeah, thank you for sharing that.

01:00:45.667 --> 01:00:52.770
Getting into a bit of your, uh, Your fitness, your mobility, your maintenance activities.

01:00:53.680 --> 01:01:04.471
You came into the surfing world, bringing this background of, um, rich athletic accomplishments.

01:01:05.270 --> 01:01:24.809
You were a decathlete as a youngster, which I think some people tell me is one of the toughest of sports because you have to master so many different disciplines and perhaps, Dick athletes could be, in some ways, the most all rounded athletes.

01:01:26.649 --> 01:01:36.524
You also partook and, and Successfully competed in other kinds of adventure sports.

01:01:37.264 --> 01:01:48.724
I'm wondering what are some of those habits, routines from those days that you brought into the surfing world?

01:01:49.654 --> 01:02:06.564
What are some of the things you learned that have helped you succeed, both physically But then also mentally, which is such a huge part of, uh, surfing, especially big wave surfing.

01:02:07.774 --> 01:02:31.375
Any unique things that you brought over and what can the everyday athlete hope to learn from those experiences you've had in transferring skills and being able to, uh, be fit and agile with, uh, Surfing as you get older.

01:02:32.244 --> 01:02:45.714
So when I stopped competing, in decathlon and I was in, I was in my twenties and I went, went to work on Wall Street and, and I'd been, at a high level for my whole life at that point.

01:02:45.952 --> 01:02:49.422
and always fit, always doing something.

01:02:49.422 --> 01:03:15.733
And, um, I decided I needed, something to, keep me going and for my mental health at that time because I was working on Wall Street and I was working long hours and, and, and so I decided I made a rule for myself, which I, which I have never broken in my life, that I would never go three days in a row without some sort of physical activity.

01:03:16.185 --> 01:03:20.701
for me, I never got out of shape.

01:03:20.701 --> 01:03:30.860
I never got, I was never not fit from the time when I transitioned from, from high level competition, um, into, into being a businessman.

01:03:31.520 --> 01:03:42.890
I, I maintained, and to this day maintain that rule that I, I will never go three days in a row without, without doing, you know, some sort of physical fitness.

01:03:43.543 --> 01:03:56.763
That would be, and I've told many, many people over the years about that rule, and that if you can, if you can maintain that rule, your, your health will, and mental health will, will, will be excellent because of it.

01:03:57.240 --> 01:04:02.410
and I saw so many of my fellow competitors, particularly, you know, the guys I played football with.

01:04:03.175 --> 01:04:26.565
You know, we're big, big guys and then stopped playing football and stopped working out and didn't stop eating and, you know, and, and then, and then tried really, you know, to, to, to, to get fit later is it's, it's, it's hard and the older you get, the harder it is to stay fit and the harder it is to come back from injuries and, and all of those things.

01:04:26.565 --> 01:04:31.495
And so for me, it starts with just maintaining the, as high fitness level as I possibly can.

01:04:32.002 --> 01:04:36.738
Surfing is without a doubt the most difficult thing I've ever taken on in my life.

01:04:37.176 --> 01:04:39.486
you know, and I'm, I include pole vaulting.

01:04:39.886 --> 01:04:43.656
And that I have, that's one of the things I've done in my life.

01:04:43.916 --> 01:04:51.036
Um, but, but in terms of physical challenges, it is without a doubt one of the most difficult things in the world to do.

01:04:51.067 --> 01:04:53.596
There are so many variables that you have to deal with.

01:04:53.989 --> 01:05:00.239
You know, and, and just, just the physical move of a pop up is really, really hard.

01:05:00.564 --> 01:05:06.394
I took, I took lessons from a guy up, up in, um, Nevada named Rob Case.

01:05:06.464 --> 01:05:16.074
Um, give a shout out to Rob, anybody that wants to learn to paddle properly, um, learn how to pop up properly, look up Rob.

01:05:16.084 --> 01:05:18.264
He's, he's, um, he's an amazing coach.

01:05:18.715 --> 01:05:20.045
And I wish I'd gone to him.

01:05:20.045 --> 01:05:22.285
I didn't, Bianca introduced me to him.

01:05:22.425 --> 01:05:34.045
And so I had been surfing for, you know, six years, I guess, when I met him, I wish I'd met him when I first started surfing, because some of the things that he told me about helped me so much.

01:05:34.045 --> 01:05:36.995
And I wish I'd known it from the beginning.

01:05:37.525 --> 01:05:41.585
One of the things that he taught me to do was a reverse pop up.

01:05:41.605 --> 01:06:12.174
So you start, you start, In your stance that you want to be in and then you slowly go down into the lay down position on the board and you do that over and over again, 30, 40 times and for some reason, I don't know, understand the physiological aspects to it, but for some reason it's the brain is able to flip that motion around so that when you actually turn around to do a pop up, you end up in exactly the stance that you want to end up in.

01:06:12.849 --> 01:06:24.539
And so one of the things that I do every single day is part of my whether I'm surfing today or not, I didn't surf today, but I did all my, my core body work and stretching and stuff that I do every day.

01:06:25.079 --> 01:06:27.929
And one of the things that I do every day is I do 20 pop ups.

01:06:29.339 --> 01:06:40.129
And because for me, you know, I grew up water skiing and skiing and windsurfing and snowboarding and you know, I've done lots and lots of stuff on a board moving.

01:06:40.129 --> 01:06:40.179
Okay.

01:06:40.889 --> 01:06:42.939
The hardest thing in surfing is to pop up.

01:06:43.509 --> 01:06:47.209
If you, you know, for me, if I can get to my feet, I'm usually pretty good.

01:06:48.500 --> 01:06:50.539
The big variable for me is, can I get to my feet?

01:06:51.679 --> 01:06:55.089
And, and that's whether I'm surfing at Cronkite or whether I'm surfing at Mavericks.

01:06:55.129 --> 01:07:03.709
The biggest, still to this day, you know, almost 10 years later, uh, from when I started surfing, the, the most challenging thing for me is, is the pop up.

01:07:03.949 --> 01:07:05.969
And so that's something I practice on dry land.

01:07:07.614 --> 01:07:14.884
And, and, and it helps a lot, you know, cause so if you can, you can get your pop up so that you don't even have to think about it.

01:07:16.064 --> 01:07:18.224
That takes away one of the variables.

01:07:18.264 --> 01:07:25.994
Um, you know, when you look at the guys that have been surfing from the time they're little kids, they don't like their, their pop up is so natural, so smooth.

01:07:26.024 --> 01:07:27.054
They don't even think about it.

01:07:27.125 --> 01:07:27.344
Right?

01:07:27.384 --> 01:07:27.884
Like it just, it's so natural.

01:07:28.364 --> 01:07:30.424
They're, they're thinking about all the other things going on.

01:07:30.434 --> 01:07:31.774
They're not thinking about their pop up.

01:07:31.784 --> 01:07:35.294
I'm still thinking about my pop up as the waves coming and all those things.

01:07:35.294 --> 01:07:35.544
Right.

01:07:35.554 --> 01:07:45.959
And so, anyway, so that, that'd be something that I would say for somebody learning to surf, focus, you know, get on a yoga mat and focus on the pop up and, and do that every day.

01:07:46.859 --> 01:07:48.559
Cause if you can't pop up, you're not going to surf.

01:07:48.917 --> 01:07:50.647
I do a lot of core body stuff.

01:07:50.707 --> 01:07:51.627
I started doing yoga.

01:07:51.627 --> 01:07:53.177
I'd never done yoga in my life.

01:07:53.351 --> 01:07:57.711
yoga has helped me a lot in terms of my core body strength and balance particularly.

01:07:58.141 --> 01:08:04.231
Um, so that's something that, you know, I'm glad I wish I'd done yoga, you know, for the rest of my life.

01:08:04.231 --> 01:08:07.491
I haven't, I've only been doing it in my fifties into my sixties.

01:08:07.881 --> 01:08:09.192
but yoga has been amazing.

01:08:09.859 --> 01:08:11.569
I don't do that much strength work.

01:08:11.569 --> 01:08:26.020
I do, you know, I do pushups and pushups and sit ups and pop ups every day, but that's really like, I don't do a lot of weight, you know, and I might do a weight workout with light barbells once a week.

01:08:26.338 --> 01:08:27.448
Not more than that.

01:08:28.338 --> 01:08:29.548
And then I used to be a cyclist.

01:08:29.548 --> 01:08:37.569
And so I still cycle on days like, you know, yesterday, uh, or two days ago, I didn't surf and today I, I'm not going to surf.

01:08:37.628 --> 01:08:45.618
And so I'll, I'll get on my mountain bike and go for, you know, do, do mountain bike ride, um, for, for aerobic fitness.

01:08:46.270 --> 01:08:48.159
I tend to do something almost every day.

01:08:48.199 --> 01:08:54.869
Um, my, my biggest thing is I, is I, I don't like to give myself rest days and I know I need to.

01:08:55.020 --> 01:08:57.890
And so I have to force myself to give myself rest days.

01:08:58.207 --> 01:09:03.177
you know, that, that's something that I, that I try to force myself to do one rest day a week.

01:09:03.778 --> 01:09:06.302
Um, And I'm, and I'm always glad I do.

01:09:06.472 --> 01:09:10.063
you know, I always come back stronger and better the next day after I do a rest day.

01:09:10.645 --> 01:09:12.166
Thanks for walking us through that.

01:09:12.845 --> 01:09:16.365
I have taken a class with Rob Case myself.

01:09:16.435 --> 01:09:17.405
Shout out to Rob.

01:09:17.715 --> 01:09:20.135
I've also recommended Rob to others.

01:09:20.505 --> 01:09:22.865
He is phenomenal indeed.

01:09:24.245 --> 01:09:25.795
The part you shared about.

01:09:26.375 --> 01:09:29.735
The reverse pop up is really intriguing.

01:09:30.270 --> 01:09:36.430
I could do a solo podcast just on my journey on trying to master the pop up.

01:09:37.240 --> 01:09:48.990
At, at one point, Lionel, I had painter's tape on my living room floor to mark exact dimensions with which my feet should land.

01:09:49.670 --> 01:09:55.660
I think I learned later in my surfing journey that my pop up was terrible.

01:09:55.690 --> 01:09:56.890
I didn't really understand.

01:09:56.890 --> 01:10:08.015
I what it means to be low in your squat when one pops up and people or friends sometimes laugh at me, given my, uh, South Asian heritage.

01:10:08.535 --> 01:10:21.605
Uh, Indians are supposed to be a really good squatters, can hold their squats for hours, you know, and here I am trying to, uh, trying to get into a basic squat and then not really having the mobility that it needs.

01:10:22.355 --> 01:10:23.155
It sounds like you,

01:10:24.500 --> 01:10:25.540
I still can't do it.

01:10:25.540 --> 01:10:26.350
And that's the other thing.

01:10:26.360 --> 01:10:33.220
That's the other thing I do every day is I squat and I still can't squat all the way down on my haunches and bare feet.

01:10:33.570 --> 01:10:34.180
I can do it.

01:10:34.260 --> 01:10:35.740
I can do it in running shoes with that.

01:10:35.750 --> 01:10:39.510
Like I need, but I need whatever it is half an inch of heel.

01:10:39.970 --> 01:10:41.240
I, I do it.

01:10:41.300 --> 01:10:45.730
I do it every day and I've been doing it every day for a long time and I still can't get all the way down.

01:10:46.080 --> 01:10:46.490
It's.

01:10:46.930 --> 01:10:52.951
It's amazing to me that I, that I can't, but I can't, I, I, but I try every day.

01:10:53.503 --> 01:11:13.103
it is, funnily motivating in a way that somebody who, you know, Surf's Mavericks, Surf's Sunset, Surf's all of these big waves is perhaps working to get past some of the same mobility challenges that I am as your everyday, uh, uh, surfer.

01:11:13.333 --> 01:11:16.913
How do you get past sometimes?

01:11:17.183 --> 01:11:18.463
Mental plateaus.

01:11:18.563 --> 01:11:22.783
And this is a question that a listener Vishal wanted to know.

01:11:23.323 --> 01:11:24.553
You know, we got surfing.

01:11:24.563 --> 01:11:26.753
We are at the mercy of mother nature.

01:11:26.853 --> 01:11:28.413
Some days you have good sessions.

01:11:28.423 --> 01:11:29.403
Some days you don't.

01:11:29.923 --> 01:11:32.873
You went five sessions without catching a wave at Mavericks.

01:11:33.133 --> 01:11:46.833
How do you keep up that, uh, that fire going to go back into the ocean day after day and, uh, keep, uh, trying to surf better?

01:11:47.256 --> 01:11:55.482
I think, I think for me, it is that it's new for me to be in the ocean every day.

01:11:55.572 --> 01:12:02.972
And it's, and, and so, and so for me, it's, it's not so much about how many waves I catch.

01:12:03.632 --> 01:12:26.101
And, and don't get me wrong, I count, I count my waves and I, you know, I keep track of them all with my app and all that stuff, and, and I try, you know, I, I, I've got a couple of rules, like if I, if I'm, if I'm going to paddle out at Ocean Beach this winter, the most I got turned back was four times before I finally got out, took me well over an hour to get out to the outside on one of the days.

01:12:26.896 --> 01:12:39.746
And, but I, I just decided I'm, I'm, even if I don't catch a wave, I'm going to get, I'm going to get out to the outside and, and, and I made that, you know, so today, so today's a, today's a fitness day.

01:12:39.896 --> 01:12:41.846
Today's not a wave catching day.

01:12:41.846 --> 01:12:42.676
It's a fitness day.

01:12:42.946 --> 01:12:58.066
and so it's all about your mental attitude and, trying to decide what you're, wanting, what your end game is and what you're, what you're wanting to accomplish overall, and being flexible, And that's something that I learned when I was competing at a, at a very high level.

01:12:58.574 --> 01:13:00.314
Some days it's just not your day.

01:13:00.532 --> 01:13:03.162
and if it's not your day, don't, don't force it.

01:13:03.252 --> 01:13:03.672
Right.

01:13:03.677 --> 01:13:14.396
And I've had days where I just wasn't feeling it, and I, paddled out at, at, at Ocean Beach or even at, at Mavericks, and I'm like, I, I'm not feeling this today, but I'm, I'm, I'm glad I'm out here.

01:13:14.745 --> 01:13:16.065
I'm gonna watch, I'm gonna learn.

01:13:16.065 --> 01:13:22.877
I'm gonna, and, and I think one of the biggest things for me is that, every time I go, I'm getting better in some way, shape, or form.

01:13:22.877 --> 01:13:23.627
I'm getting better.

01:13:24.037 --> 01:13:26.277
And every time I go, I'm still learning stuff.

01:13:26.317 --> 01:13:34.487
And so for me, That's one of the, you know, as I said earlier, that's one of the magical things about surfing for me and what keeps me engaged and willing to go.

01:13:34.987 --> 01:13:39.847
Um, and, and even when I'm not catching waves or when I'm, I'm not having a great day.

01:13:40.457 --> 01:13:41.917
I mean, I had a day last week at Cronkite.

01:13:42.097 --> 01:13:44.317
I could not get to my feet for the life of me.

01:13:44.417 --> 01:13:47.007
I mean, I felt like a total fricking kook.

01:13:47.037 --> 01:13:47.957
It was terrible.

01:13:48.847 --> 01:13:54.647
it was a beautiful day and my buddies were out there and we're all, you know, they're all catching waves and I was watching them catch waves.

01:13:54.647 --> 01:13:57.267
And, and it was, you know, I was just glad to be out there.

01:13:57.597 --> 01:14:08.317
And, and so I think, I think a lot of it's just about your frame of mind and, and trying to, trying to make the best out of whatever, whatever the situation is.

01:14:08.667 --> 01:14:09.797
I'll go surfing.

01:14:09.797 --> 01:14:18.482
I went surfing, got a buddy of mine, Jeremy, Um, who I took to Mavericks actually, uh, this year, and he caught, he caught a wave his fir very first time on at Mavericks.

01:14:18.482 --> 01:14:20.402
He caught and rode a wave all the way down to the channel.

01:14:20.582 --> 01:14:21.512
Kind of pissed me off.

01:14:22.237 --> 01:14:25.828
he's a much better surfer than I am, but I was, I was super happy for him.

01:14:26.098 --> 01:14:30.483
But we, he, his, his local break is, uh, his four mile and, uh.

01:14:31.933 --> 01:14:37.213
And I drove down to surf with him at four mile and, and it was blowing like stink.

01:14:37.213 --> 01:14:39.433
And it was, nobody was there.

01:14:39.433 --> 01:14:42.223
And, and he was like, you know, it's kind of gnarly.

01:14:42.223 --> 01:14:42.803
Do you want to go out?

01:14:42.803 --> 01:14:43.803
And I was like, yeah, we're here.

01:14:43.803 --> 01:14:53.042
Like, you know, my dad, always had the saying that we grew up with and that I, you know, I've imparted on my kids and, uh, which is if you don't go, you won't know.

01:14:53.757 --> 01:14:56.637
And my dad used to say that all the time.

01:14:56.997 --> 01:15:01.667
And you know, it'd be raining out in the chalet and, everyone's like, oh, let's not go skiing today.

01:15:01.667 --> 01:15:04.187
And my dad would be like, well, if we don't go, we won't know.

01:15:04.187 --> 01:15:07.877
And out he'd go, and sure enough, you'd get a couple of great runs and it was worth going.

01:15:08.387 --> 01:15:14.207
And, uh, and so I said, you know, I, that day at, at Four Mile, I said to Jeremy, if we don't go, we won't know.

01:15:14.697 --> 01:15:18.147
So we went and we paddled out and, uh, and.

01:15:18.892 --> 01:15:22.402
And it ended up just cleaning up for like 30 minutes.

01:15:22.622 --> 01:15:33.175
And we had this little window and we both caught a couple of really good waves and, and we could have stood on the shore and watched and, not gone out and not caught those waves.

01:15:33.305 --> 01:15:35.205
And we would not have been better for it.

01:15:35.235 --> 01:15:41.196
So, you know, and at the end of the session, Jeremy said to me, he said, you know, you're hilarious.

01:15:41.196 --> 01:15:43.026
Like it doesn't matter how bad or good it is.

01:15:43.026 --> 01:15:45.416
You always have a smile on your face and you're always totally stoked.

01:15:47.166 --> 01:15:49.696
Yeah, but it's like, what else are we going to do?

01:15:49.696 --> 01:15:50.386
It's so fun.

01:15:50.486 --> 01:15:51.676
Like you might as well go do it.

01:15:51.887 --> 01:15:53.921
that's, and that's kind of my, my mentality.

01:15:53.921 --> 01:16:02.801
And, and I'm glad, you know, I think one of the things for me that makes that easy to have that mindset and having been super competitive when I was, when I was a kid.

01:16:03.341 --> 01:16:07.101
Uh, and still competitive in some things and go on a golf course and pretty competitive.

01:16:07.434 --> 01:16:10.385
but I know I'm not going to win any competitions.

01:16:10.435 --> 01:16:13.255
I I'm not competing with anybody in surfing.

01:16:13.735 --> 01:16:15.005
It's just for my own joy.

01:16:15.245 --> 01:16:17.055
And, and that's the only reason I do it.

01:16:17.125 --> 01:16:19.785
And so I get nothing to prove to anybody.

01:16:20.143 --> 01:16:23.525
you know, if I have a bad day surfing, I don't get pissed off about it.

01:16:23.525 --> 01:16:30.365
I just, I just chalk it up to, okay, well we learned some things today and we'll apply them tomorrow and hopefully we'll have a better day tomorrow.

01:16:31.750 --> 01:16:34.750
Such a great attitude to bring to the water.

01:16:34.840 --> 01:16:41.260
Any day in the water is better than a, not than a day out of the water.

01:16:42.545 --> 01:16:43.055
Percent.

01:16:43.865 --> 01:16:44.435
A hundred percent.

01:16:44.810 --> 01:16:51.950
Any significant injuries you have to battle in the past or you have to work around today.

01:16:52.560 --> 01:16:59.925
For example, surfing can be incredibly taxing on one's shoulders, for example.

01:17:01.475 --> 01:17:01.835
Yeah.

01:17:02.339 --> 01:17:08.982
my shoulders fortunately have been fine and, I've had previous knee surgeries.

01:17:08.987 --> 01:17:11.082
My, my left knee is probably.

01:17:12.087 --> 01:17:13.347
Mm, which is my front.

01:17:13.347 --> 01:17:18.938
I'm regular, so, so it is, my front, leg is 90%.

01:17:18.938 --> 01:17:20.828
Maybe not, not, certainly not a hundred percent.

01:17:20.828 --> 01:17:22.598
So that, you know, I wish it was better.

01:17:23.391 --> 01:17:32.441
you know, the biggest thing for me was, and why I wear a helmet is, um, in, in the first two years that I was surfing at Cronkite, I had two serious head injuries.

01:17:32.501 --> 01:17:35.246
Um, I got run over by a kid and, and took.

01:17:36.176 --> 01:17:38.206
14 staples to the top of my head.

01:17:38.736 --> 01:17:44.486
And then another day, my own board hit me in the head and I took another 12 staples to the head.

01:17:45.026 --> 01:17:54.726
And when I came, when I came home after the second one, after the second trip to the emergency room, my wife looked at me and she said, you know, you've done extreme sports your whole life.

01:17:55.086 --> 01:17:56.196
You always wear a helmet.

01:17:56.646 --> 01:17:57.996
You've never had a head injury.

01:17:58.006 --> 01:17:59.196
You've been surfing for two years.

01:17:59.196 --> 01:18:00.756
You've had two serious head injuries.

01:18:00.766 --> 01:18:01.786
Why aren't you wearing a helmet?

01:18:02.416 --> 01:18:08.836
And that's when I started doing research on helmets and, and, you know, figured out a good helmet to wear.

01:18:09.086 --> 01:18:11.916
And, uh, and, and so I've been wearing a helmet.

01:18:12.806 --> 01:18:14.816
I always wear, I never not, I never don't wear it.

01:18:15.137 --> 01:18:20.157
and, and a number of people, number of people with Mavericks have started, have started wearing them.

01:18:20.447 --> 01:18:31.547
Every time I surf at Ocean, somebody paddle up to me and ask me about my helmet and I've probably sold, I've probably sold 20 or 30 helmets for DMC, um, because, because of wearing it.

01:18:31.903 --> 01:18:36.272
Other than that, I haven't really had any, bad surfing injuries.

01:18:36.585 --> 01:18:39.135
so I guess I'm maybe, I'm maybe lucky on that.

01:18:39.349 --> 01:18:44.679
but I've had, you know, I've had lots of, you know, I broke my back mountain biking and I've had elbow surgery.

01:18:44.679 --> 01:18:52.819
I've had all kinds of surgeries over the years and various things, but none of them I wish my left knee worked better than it does, but it's fine.

01:18:53.684 --> 01:19:03.034
Any kind of, uh, body workers or, uh, specialists that you want to shout out to who help keep you in tip top shape.

01:19:04.309 --> 01:19:12.913
Uh, I do, I do weekly massage with a guy named Trevor Bridgewater who's at Stinson and, he's amazing and keeps me, keeps me going.

01:19:13.016 --> 01:19:14.245
that's really the only thing I do.

01:19:15.040 --> 01:19:15.340
Great.

01:19:15.350 --> 01:19:16.790
Thanks for, uh, walking us through that.

01:19:17.900 --> 01:19:23.200
Amy, another listener had this question on diet and, uh, nutrition.

01:19:23.440 --> 01:19:32.650
Any different things that you do supplement wise, diet wise, again, that contribute to your agility, your fitness, fitness wise?

01:19:32.895 --> 01:19:37.444
when I first started surfing Mavericks, I was really worried about, hydration.

01:19:37.739 --> 01:19:44.770
cause when we do a Maverick session, you're usually out there for minimum three hours and, um, and sometimes longer.

01:19:45.003 --> 01:20:11.157
But usually three hours, which is a long time to be sitting out in the water, and I, I experience cramps in my calves, that has been one kind of thing that has, has impeded me, particularly more at Ocean Beach than at Mavericks, but, but certainly happened at Mavericks too, um, and, and if you've ever had a cramp, In your, in your legs, in the water, it's, and, and you're at Ocean Beach on a big day, it is not a happy thing.

01:20:11.747 --> 01:20:12.357
It's brutal.

01:20:12.712 --> 01:20:17.758
and so I've, I've done a lot of work in terms of what I used to do when I was riding bikes.

01:20:18.113 --> 01:20:21.453
And trying to figure out ways to apply that, um, to surfing.

01:20:22.033 --> 01:20:28.283
And so what I end up doing is, is I'll, I'll pre hydrate significantly.

01:20:28.343 --> 01:20:45.263
And, um, one of the, one of the, uh, supplements I use is something called Morton, um, which, which is, uh, very, very well known in the, in the cycling world, um, spelled M A U R T E N.

01:20:45.599 --> 01:20:46.409
and it's a.

01:20:46.839 --> 01:20:50.921
Sodium based additive to water.

01:20:51.150 --> 01:21:04.418
that a lot of cyclists use, and so what I'll do is I'll preload, you know, as I'm driving down to Mavericks, you know, it takes me about an hour to get there, and so I'll drink, I'll usually drink two liters of Morton before I get there.

01:21:05.133 --> 01:21:07.310
You know, essentially pre hydrate, my body.

01:21:07.730 --> 01:21:18.270
And it's also much better, you know, from a concussion protocol standpoint, if you've got a lot of, if you're really hydrated, um, the likelihood of getting a concussion is much less.

01:21:18.662 --> 01:21:43.871
And so, and then the other thing I do is, um, is I do take gel packs out with me, uh, when I go out to Mavericks, I just shove them in my, in my wetsuit and so I'll just, and, and again, I just, that's what I used to do when, when I was on the bike, you know, if I would be on the bike for three or four hours, I'd have a couple of gel packs, a couple of gummies and, and, um, and, and consume them while, while, you know, You're riding and, and so I just take those out with me.

01:21:43.941 --> 01:21:45.571
Um, and that's helped a lot.

01:21:45.701 --> 01:21:48.701
Uh, and, and particularly in terms of, of the cramping.

01:21:49.085 --> 01:21:51.075
because that cramping is the worst thing for sure.

01:21:51.670 --> 01:21:53.370
Yes, uh, cramping sucks.

01:21:53.420 --> 01:22:05.526
I experience that sometimes after a hard day outdoors and, you know, sometimes I'm, uh, I'm driving and I'm trying to, press my foot on the throttle of the brake and I find this cramp shoot up.

01:22:05.526 --> 01:22:06.826
It's, it's, it's super annoying.

01:22:06.826 --> 01:22:13.436
So maybe the, uh, sodium based additives, maybe some of those things could be helpful.

01:22:14.736 --> 01:22:20.146
One last listener question from Peter, before we get into some really fun ending questions.

01:22:21.656 --> 01:22:22.786
Lana, you have.

01:22:24.371 --> 01:22:26.241
Being a competitive athlete all your life.

01:22:26.711 --> 01:22:36.371
You've also been an investment banker, which from all accounts is not the lightest of careers to have.

01:22:36.791 --> 01:22:40.731
How have you kept all of this in balance?

01:22:40.771 --> 01:22:42.301
You also have a family.

01:22:42.733 --> 01:22:45.797
any unique insights into your own life?

01:22:46.342 --> 01:23:02.792
To be able to, uh, performing with your training, with the mental aspects, when you were working at Wall Street, let's say, would you wake up at 3am to go ride your bicycle before going to work?

01:23:03.382 --> 01:23:07.332
What kind of discipline and balance have you had?

01:23:08.144 --> 01:23:15.644
I've always been really disciplined around, as I said earlier, around, maintaining my fitness and, and creating the space to do that.

01:23:15.714 --> 01:23:27.674
And I, I learned early on in my business career that if I wasn't feeling good physically, then that would impact my mental capacity.

01:23:27.914 --> 01:23:41.393
I think that there's a tendency to, when you're starting your career, to think that, You've got to be there all the time and that, and that the, you know, if you're not there, the work's not going to get done and having priorities screwed up.

01:23:41.657 --> 01:23:53.667
it's super interesting coming out of COVID as I watched a lot of the young people and, and how the work life balance importance has changed significantly from when you and I were starting our careers.

01:23:54.117 --> 01:23:58.447
And maybe it's swung too far, you know, the other way, who knows?

01:23:58.900 --> 01:24:07.294
but, I would say having the discipline to, to make sure that you're doing something physical every day is, is really, really important for your mental health.

01:24:07.425 --> 01:24:08.395
and overall health.

01:24:08.783 --> 01:24:18.336
And so I've just always been super disciplined around that and, created the time to do it and knew that if I did it, that my performance in my job would always be better.

01:24:18.704 --> 01:24:25.994
and so, you know, to take the hour a day, made the other, 8, 9, 10, 12 hours, way more productive.

01:24:26.228 --> 01:24:27.308
That was what I learned.

01:24:27.335 --> 01:24:29.065
and so I was always really disciplined about it.

01:24:29.745 --> 01:24:39.365
The other tip that my dad gave me when I was first starting my business career was to put your, put your vacations in the calendar at the beginning of the year and go on them.

01:24:40.345 --> 01:24:42.375
And I just did that.

01:24:42.445 --> 01:24:43.485
I always just did that.

01:24:43.605 --> 01:24:49.525
And um, no matter what was going on at work, I, I've never cancelled a vacation in my entire life.

01:24:50.035 --> 01:24:52.505
And it's amazing.

01:24:52.565 --> 01:24:58.815
You come back and the world didn't stop and the work kept going and everything was fine.

01:24:59.905 --> 01:25:07.305
And so, again, I was lucky that I had a dad who had figured that out and had imparted that knowledge to me.

01:25:07.820 --> 01:25:19.093
and so, you know, I, I think, I think particularly for competitive people or high performing people, like there's a tendency to think that, you know, if I'm not there, it's not going to get done it's just not true.

01:25:19.343 --> 01:25:23.853
and so figuring that out at a relatively young age, I think, I think made, made a huge difference.

01:25:24.114 --> 01:25:30.064
I, I've been lucky that I've been able to prioritize my family and spend time with my kids along the way.

01:25:30.449 --> 01:25:40.796
That's been hugely important and, you know, in terms of their development, but also for me, um, selfishly somebody said to me along the way that, that there's no such thing as quality time.

01:25:40.896 --> 01:25:41.646
There's just time.

01:25:42.896 --> 01:25:46.526
And, and I think that's true, particularly when it comes to your kids.

01:25:47.012 --> 01:25:53.638
and so that, that was something that somebody said to me that, You know, struck me as being one of those truisms to live by that's really it for me.

01:25:53.678 --> 01:26:03.298
I, I've been really lucky, along the way to be able to do mostly what I want to do as it relates to, to the fun things in life.

01:26:03.298 --> 01:26:07.828
And I always say, I always try to say, yes, I always just try to say yes.

01:26:08.008 --> 01:26:13.058
Um, and you know, the work, the work, the work gets done, you figure out how to get the work done.

01:26:13.597 --> 01:26:20.047
Those life lessons from your dad are, you know, should be written on a plaque.

01:26:20.660 --> 01:26:30.530
The one, this one where plan your most important events of the year, which really is one's vacation should be sacrosanct and one should follow that.

01:26:31.050 --> 01:26:42.480
And the other one is, is not needing to respond to every message that comes in, in this day of all kinds of, uh, instant messaging.

01:26:42.510 --> 01:26:43.270
I think that is.

01:26:43.840 --> 01:26:46.226
a hugely vital one.

01:26:46.546 --> 01:27:00.004
Often, you know, unless one is an ER doctor or something, if one doesn't respond to things, often those things take care of themselves yeah, can't, can't, can't highlight them enough.

01:27:00.004 --> 01:27:05.964
If you were to go back your life 20 years, anything you would do differently?

01:27:06.729 --> 01:27:08.319
Oh, I would've started surfing earlier.

01:27:11.189 --> 01:27:11.959
Great answer.

01:27:11.994 --> 01:27:20.779
I, I wish I, as much, as much as I, as, I'm glad I've got it now, I, I would've loved to have started even, you know, even in my forties.

01:27:21.012 --> 01:27:22.602
I, I would've loved to have done that.

01:27:23.094 --> 01:27:36.111
no, you know, I, I, I, I've been, I've, I've lived a very fulfilling life and I, and, you know, and, and if God forbid I drop dead tomorrow, I, you know.

01:27:38.756 --> 01:27:41.746
No one's going to say he didn't live a full life.

01:27:41.766 --> 01:27:49.776
Um, so I've been super lucky to live a full life and, and, uh, and, and I, you know, I don't have a lot of time for looking back.

01:27:50.546 --> 01:27:53.876
It's, it's, it's, you know, it's not how I've lived my life.

01:27:53.876 --> 01:28:01.116
I, I, I, I tend to look forward and, um, you know, and I, and I try to do the things that I, that I want to do.

01:28:01.116 --> 01:28:11.012
I don't, you know, I don't have, I don't have bucket lists per se because I try, I just try and do the things that I want to do and I just go do them and, I've been super lucky that way.

01:28:11.042 --> 01:28:19.342
I, I've done some, you know, I've done some, when I, when I turned 40, I did look back on my life and looked at the things that I wish I'd done.

01:28:19.692 --> 01:28:21.092
versus what I had done.

01:28:21.092 --> 01:28:23.732
And out of that came bagpipes.

01:28:23.732 --> 01:28:31.402
I started bagpiping when I was 40 and, um, because I'd always wanted to bagpipe, but I never made time for it.

01:28:31.432 --> 01:28:36.622
And, and so I'd regretted that that was like at the top of my list of crazy things that I wish I'd done.

01:28:36.622 --> 01:28:42.200
And, and so, and now, you know, 21 years later, I'm a pretty proficient bagpiper you know, it played big.

01:28:42.380 --> 01:28:56.390
Played funerals and weddings and commencements and playing, I'm playing up on Saturday night with an ACDC cover band up in, up in Sonoma, playing, playing, uh, that, that epic, uh, song.

01:28:56.420 --> 01:28:59.470
It's a long way to the top if you want to rock and roll with bagpipes in it.

01:28:59.470 --> 01:29:01.355
And I'm sitting in with them playing.

01:29:02.665 --> 01:29:10.004
So for me, it's, it's, it's mostly just about, figuring stuff out that I, that I wish I'd done doing it, just going and doing it.

01:29:11.204 --> 01:29:12.894
I used to love ACDC.

01:29:13.319 --> 01:29:13.849
as a kid.

01:29:13.909 --> 01:29:19.759
So besides one day hoping to surf with you, I also want to come and hear you, uh, play bagpipes.

01:29:21.259 --> 01:29:27.109
Final, final, uh, fun rapid fire questions before we let you go back to your afternoon.

01:29:27.364 --> 01:29:27.574
Okay.

01:29:28.159 --> 01:29:31.409
Lionel, what about your life are you the most proud of?

01:29:33.584 --> 01:29:34.144
My kids.

01:29:35.159 --> 01:29:35.639
Excellent.

01:29:36.679 --> 01:29:38.929
Any dream waves you want to surf?

01:29:39.514 --> 01:29:43.614
I caught one wave at Waimea on a kind of, kind of okay day.

01:29:43.614 --> 01:29:46.514
I'd love to go back to Waimea on a, on a, on a good day.

01:29:47.054 --> 01:29:50.164
I'd really like to catch Waimea on it on a good day.

01:29:50.214 --> 01:29:51.554
That would be, that'd be super fun.

01:29:52.514 --> 01:29:56.274
Any book or movie that you have most recommended to others?

01:29:57.180 --> 01:30:07.298
Oh, well, the book that got me into surfing was Barbarian Days, which, if you, if you haven't, as a surfer, if you haven't read that book, you owe it to yourself to read that book.

01:30:07.845 --> 01:30:09.405
And I'm due to read it again.

01:30:09.678 --> 01:30:20.423
I've actually gone and surfed a lot of the breaks that, that he talks about in, in that, in that book, and I got to go back and read it and, compare it to what I, to what I've been able to do.

01:30:21.203 --> 01:30:27.173
It's kind of remarkable how many non surfers have told me that they loved that book.

01:30:27.753 --> 01:30:29.743
Bill Finnegan, gifted writer.

01:30:30.763 --> 01:30:33.373
Everybody go read, uh, Barbarian Days.

01:30:34.213 --> 01:30:38.553
And yeah, uh, what is a meal that you could eat every day?

01:30:41.473 --> 01:30:42.723
a meal I could eat every day.

01:30:42.753 --> 01:30:51.451
Well, I'd eat the meal I eat every day, which we talked about at the head, at the head of the show, which my, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm pretty basic when it comes to food.

01:30:51.451 --> 01:30:54.391
I'm a kind of a meat and potatoes guy and I eat my cereal in the morning.

01:30:54.933 --> 01:31:03.522
if I was on a desert Island or if I had to go and, and, and I could only have one thing, it'd be a peanut butter and jam sandwich.

01:31:03.679 --> 01:31:04.619
I could live on that.

01:31:04.704 --> 01:31:06.354
I like that without any problem whatsoever.

01:31:06.679 --> 01:31:07.899
Crunchy or creamy?

01:31:09.314 --> 01:31:10.234
I like crunchy.

01:31:10.379 --> 01:31:10.849
me too.

01:31:10.929 --> 01:31:12.169
Good, good, good answer.

01:31:12.937 --> 01:31:14.927
It's been a delightful conversation, Lionel.

01:31:15.337 --> 01:31:23.227
I have had goosebumps the whole way as you have taken us through your journey into big wave surfing.

01:31:23.317 --> 01:31:26.187
Thank you so much for coming on the show today.

01:31:28.112 --> 01:31:37.482
Well, next time we'll have to talk about, uh, the, the surf accessories business that I started with John, John Florence and John Paizal, VEA supplies.

01:31:37.802 --> 01:31:56.484
and then, my friend Ryder Thomas, who's, who's got his, uh, destination surf resorts, Pegasus, which I was going to say that the, the wave I, the wave, I, I'm going to go back to soon is one of the Pegasus resorts is in Samoa, uh, on the island of Aganoa and, uh, and there's a barreling right.

01:31:56.674 --> 01:31:59.724
And I've been there twice and I wasn't a good enough surfer to actually get barreled.

01:31:59.724 --> 01:32:01.434
And now I think I could.

01:32:01.804 --> 01:32:04.364
So it's time to go back to back to Samoa.

01:32:04.404 --> 01:32:06.144
That would be the other place I would go for sure.

01:32:06.634 --> 01:32:12.444
If you need a deckhand for the boat, thanks a lot.

01:32:13.684 --> 01:32:14.034
We'll do it.

01:32:14.034 --> 01:32:14.264
Yeah.

01:32:14.284 --> 01:32:16.354
And, uh, we'll see you at Ocean Beach sometime.

01:32:16.784 --> 01:32:17.654
That would be amazing.

01:32:19.803 --> 01:32:20.913
What a fun chat.

01:32:21.249 --> 01:32:25.119
I'm an animated person to begin with, but I was really feeling it today.

01:32:25.959 --> 01:32:29.649
Lannan really does personify the easiest athlete.

01:32:30.339 --> 01:32:34.899
The guy did not even get into the sport until his fifties.

01:32:35.949 --> 01:32:37.359
Talk about trying new things.

01:32:38.079 --> 01:32:38.619
Sure.

01:32:38.679 --> 01:32:41.019
Landon's been an athlete all his life.

01:32:41.709 --> 01:32:42.429
But wow.

01:32:42.819 --> 01:32:48.819
What was most inspiring was his love for learning his ability to find joy in the process.

01:32:49.299 --> 01:32:53.169
Returning over and over to the water after Bluetooth beatings.

01:32:53.503 --> 01:32:59.173
For Mazda waves and sessions where he left the ocean empty handed.

01:32:59.708 --> 01:33:00.728
But some are found.

01:33:01.020 --> 01:33:07.260
The gumption to return again with the curiosity and mindset of someone who truly feels.

01:33:07.530 --> 01:33:08.670
The love of being a learner.

01:33:09.480 --> 01:33:13.980
I think there's so much to learn here for both folks starting something new.

01:33:14.490 --> 01:33:15.660
As well as well.

01:33:16.620 --> 01:33:17.670
Crusty diehards.

01:33:18.480 --> 01:33:22.020
I was sometimes one of them who did not have a good time.

01:33:22.080 --> 01:33:24.030
If I didn't got enough waves.

01:33:24.480 --> 01:33:30.450
Oh, well, meet my own standards of performance while being in the ocean surfing.

01:33:31.590 --> 01:33:35.880
I'm certainly school here and we'll hope to borrow from landlords attitude.

01:33:36.120 --> 01:33:37.440
Next time I'm in the water.

01:33:38.610 --> 01:33:39.960
Thanks for tuning in again.

01:33:40.410 --> 01:33:42.750
If you have stayed with us this long.

01:33:43.260 --> 01:33:44.400
Please click follow.

01:33:44.760 --> 01:33:47.550
On the app, so you can keep getting the goodness.

01:33:48.930 --> 01:33:50.430
For a long time to come.

01:33:51.300 --> 01:33:56.820
Until next time, stay vulnerable, adventurous, and most of all, stay ageless.