#81 How a World Champion Found New Strength—And the Habits That Help Jamie Whitmore Stay Fast, Focused, and Fired Up at 49

Ageless Athlete - Jamie Whitmore-Meinz
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Kush: [00:00:00] I always, uh, start with this question, which is, Jamie, where are you right now and what did you have for breakfast this morning? 

Jamie: Um, as in specifically like in my house where I'm at or in Southern California? No, no.

Yeah, 

Kush: no, I mean like where in the, where in the world, where are you? 

Jamie: Yeah. I love it how 

Kush: people interpret this question in different ways, but go ahead. 

Jamie: Yeah. I am currently sitting in my dining room area in Somerset, California. And for breakfast I had a peanut butter and honey bagel.

Kush: what kind of bagel? 

Jamie: Oh, plain. I just do plain bagels okay. When I put peanut butter or sun butter, it has to be plain. 

Kush: I will have to agree. I, I think that sometimes you go to bagel shops maybe, and this is this thing about the us [00:01:00] everything has to be overloaded and, and I guess my argument is if the bagel is delicious to begin with, it should not need too much enhancement.

Agreed. 

Kush: And then, uh, Somerset, California, I, I think you were sharing that it is somewhere near Sacramento, is that correct? 

Jamie: I would say I'm evenly spaced between Sacramento and South Lake Tahoe. Okay. 

Kush: So maybe it is cooler than Sacramento. No. And then also closer to South Lake Tahoe for escapes. 

Jamie: Yeah, I'm very close too.

Have you ever heard of Sly Park? 

Kush: I have not heard of Sly Park. 

Jamie: Oh my goodness. It's like, it's like Jenkinson Lake. It's about 14 miles from me. It's up in Pollock Pines. So that's if I need to get [00:02:00] out of the heat. 'cause it does get hot here. Like we get the hundreds. I will just go up to there and it's usually, maybe it gets a high of 90, but Sure.

Nice. Yeah. 

Kush: My one stop on regular trips to Tahoe from San uh, from San Francisco. Actually, I would say return, return trips would be a stop in Auburn to get burgers. So Are you anywhere near Auburn? 

Jamie: Yeah, that's the other side. 

Kush: Oh, that's the other side. Got it. Got it. Uh. Great. Uh, Jamie. Um. For folks tuning in who might not know your story, how do you introduce yourself these days?

Jamie: I, you know, I, it's, it's been such a long journey. It, it's, I'm now writer and Christian's mom, which are my twins, but, um, gosh, no, seriously, my [00:03:00] journey's been so long from collegiate athlete to professional triathlete slash mountain biker, which I specialized in Exterra and I did that for about seven years and then got cancer.

So then I was like cancer patient, cancer survivor, and then became Paralympian. And I've actually been a Paralympian longer than I was a pro. So this will, I'm heading into my 13th, or is it 14th year as a, as a Paralympic cyclist. And I'm not getting any younger yet. I still feel. As, you know, like this young chicken

some days. Jamie, you some days, not every day. 

Kush: Sure, sure. Well, Jamie, uh, you've had more chapters in one life than, than any of us can possibly Imagine. when we were trading [00:04:00] messages, you were sharing about what today was going to be like, and you mentioned you coach. Cross country in the morning, then you like to train before it gets, uh, deathly hot.

Yes. And then you switch into soccer mom mode. 

Yes. 

Kush: So what did today actually look like for you? 

Jamie: So, I'm generally up at, gosh, about 5, 5 15 to about five 30 in the morning. Mondays are always earlier. And then I, I, I am, I call myself Uber, which is mom, Uber. And we, I live out, I live out in the middle of nowhere, but there are still kids that live out here with, with me that will be going to the same high school as my kids.

And they're running cross country. So I have, I generally make anywheres from two to four [00:05:00] stops on Monday morning, picking up kids. So I show up to our final destination, which is in Folsom. So that's an hour, an hour's drive away and, and out, out of my car comes seven children. And then, and then I will lead them.

Uh, we have a discussion. We kind of introduce our names 'cause everybody's still getting to know each other. We have a, a question, I give them updates for the week and then I send them out on their run, which is around Lake Natoma on Mondays. And then, and so there's different kind of groups. Today's kind of our, like an easier day.

This is a, a recovery week. So they, the long group only had to go six miles and then it teetered down to some, some people did three miles. And then I ride around on my bike and I ride from like group to group checking on 'em. Then they come in and my group will go to Jamba Juice, and then I go do my workouts and then I, and then I pick them all, put them all in my [00:06:00] car, and then I drive them home.

So, and then, and then I take a nap after eating, and then I will prepare dinner, I will do household chores. I'll do core or strength training today, and then take my, one of my sons down to soccer practice and run errands while he's at soccer practice. 

Kush: Sounds light and easy peasy. No, I'm just kidding. You know when a lot of us think of the term soccer mom, I don't know if that term is, yeah, maybe it's a bit sexist, but when we think of that, we just think of a parent who's dropping their kids off and sitting by the sidelines, either working or.

Looking at the phones while the, the kid completes their sport or their training or, or maybe any kind of workshop and then takes them back. You are doing that class, you actually [00:07:00] training them like you, is that right? Like you actually coaching these kids who drive So cross country? Yes, 

Jamie: yes, yes. Cross country, yes.

Soccer, no soccer. I, I literally do watch or I'll run errands, but, but the running, yeah. 

Kush: And then, and then Jamie, while these kids are doing their training, you are multitasking and doing your own training. Yes. And, and so, okay, so. Does this routine take place? On most days, 

Jamie: I'd say for right now, during the summer, yes, I am.

Five days a week I am at practice. And then the other coaches kind of flip flop, so they'll help. So, so there's a head coach and then I, so I'm gonna kind of be working with varsity, which is the more advanced or elite runners you could say. And then he works with the beginners. And then we have two other.

Helpers. And so they, they all take shifts, but I feel guilty [00:08:00] if I'm not there every day. I feel, you know what I mean? It's like, I think it's just also because I'm such an athlete myself that I know the importance of having, uh, a regular person there contact. 

Mm-hmm. Point. 

Jamie: And I also used to coach way back, right when I got out of college, I coached a high school and I still am in contact with a handful of those kids to this day.

One of them is turning 40 next month, and I will be at his birthday. But it, it's one of those where you, you, I mean, it's like how you get your credibility, right? If you want kids to listen to what you say, you have to practice what you preach. And so all of these kids see me, they're committing to being there every day, and so then they show up.

So that's, yeah, it's, it's, it's a balance. It'ss a lot of work. It's very early mornings, but I love it. 

Kush: It's. Absolutely a ton of work. And one thing right away I can see is that power of accountability, [00:09:00] because yes, I mean, getting go, getting good coaching is, is you know, the foundation. But if they see that the other person they coach is also making that effort and showing up every day, 

I, I, 

Kush: I think, I mean, you don't have to be an adult to, to start owning that, that bit in one's own progress.

And, uh, yes. You are now inspiring this new legion of athletes the same way. Perhaps you were inspired yourself when you were, uh, this young buck training to be a, a professional at an early age. One other thing I have to ask. Your Instagram handle. Jamie is gutsy Girl. Where did that come from? 

Jamie: Gutsy try girl.

It was gutsy Try 

Kush: girl, right? Yes. Right. That's right. It's 

Jamie: gutsy. Try girl back in the day. So when I first started coaching at Florin High School, [00:10:00] there was the main coach that was the head coach there. He, he was coaching back when I was in high school and he, and he was like at my rival school, but yet we weren't really rivals.

We were, we kind of were friends, you could say. 'cause like my coach used to coach him, so, or, or help with him. So it's like this small community, you could say. But it really wasn't that small. 'cause these high schools were huge. But, so I had known him forever and he went by the, the name Parlor Head. So that was like his nickname.

Parlor head and, and when I was establishing email, right, because like I'm of the generation where it was just starting, it was he, he helped me come up with that because I was pursuing being a professional triathlete and he wanted to give me something like that. Had, that was gutsy because he had always known me as this gutsy athlete, even in high school.

And he says, I, I've [00:11:00] got it gutsy. Try girl. And I've had that for over 20 years. 

Kush: That's amazing. Well, Jamie, I, you were, you know, absolutely a talented athlete. And I'm guessing many people in your cohort were also talented, also achieving at a high level. They were all working hard. But what was it about you that your coach decided to, uh, kinda be, give you this, this.

Title this adjective. 

Jamie: I, I think it was just 'cause I was the type that like never gave, gave up. I had a very, I was a very high energy athlete, very talkative. Um, and, and I, I didn't generally back down on anything. So, you know, I, I think it was just those kind of attributes that he thought warranted. The, the nickname gutsy Try girl.[00:12:00] 

Kush: I, I think it's funny, Jamie, when I think back of maybe the coaches I had or maybe even coaches that a lot of people have had, like, I think one thing that a lot of coaches will tell their students is, you have all the talent, but you need to go out and work harder. You need to not give up. Right? And, and you on the other hand, I'm like, sound like you were surprising even your coaches.

Jamie: Yeah, I mean, I, so my, my actual high school coach, coach Hunt was, and he, I still talk to him to this day, yet he always, I don't know, he opened up like his home and his, his wife, they were, they always invited me up to go, like run Hills around his place and they really went that extra mile to get me where I needed to go.

You know what I mean? Because like in this day and age, [00:13:00] you, I mean, people are getting fast, kids are getting faster and faster. Every time I turn around I was just at our like masters meet for high school and I couldn't believe how fast kids are running eight hundreds and the, and they're, I mean, girls are going sub five minutes in, in the mile right now.

And I just think that's, that's incredible. But it, it doesn't. It doesn't just happen, right? Like we, I was talking to my former athlete, the one that's gonna be 40, and I said, you, they're, they're going so much faster than you were and you were fast, and they're going so much faster than me, and I was fast.

And it's that, it's that more knowledge I think on recovery. Better intervals knowing like, I mean the, the commercial about Gatorade and how Gatorade came about and that gave, you know, my Florida the, the advantage those football players because now they had an electrolyte replacement drink. And so I think it's all this fine tuning that we're doing that heals our bo bodies faster that [00:14:00] then we can ask more of it.

You know what I mean? So, so it's that, it's weird. I. But kids are just fast now, and I don't, I feel slow when I look back at my time as a high school athlete. I like, dang, I would've been like 40th at state meet instead of 14th. Now I would've been like 26th, but still I was like 14th. Even back then. Kids are just incredibly fast.

I don't know what it's, 

Kush: yeah, yeah, I mean, exactly. Like it's a combination of just know-how, uh, maybe, maybe just e evolutionary forces and maybe a healthy bit of perhaps peer pressure and knowing what is possible. Like, like I always go, go back to that Roger Banister story. You know, like when he broke that four minute mile, like it took so long, right?

And now I think so many people have done [00:15:00] that and, and keep doing it. So yeah, I mean, just knowing that what something is possible really. changes, changes the game. Jamie, one thing, or let's say you've had so many chapters, but if you go back a little bit to those early years, the one of the, the one thing that people know about you is your dominance of TER discipline.

And I will confess, I did not know what an TER was until pretty recently I had Ned over, and I think you know, of Ned on the podcast, and he shared a little bit about Ter and then I wanted to understand that a bit better. And I, I, I have a feeling that people listening would also wanna understand that before it, so it starts sounding, uh, too technical.

Xterra isn't your average lon, [00:16:00] right? It's like off-road. Uh, rugged terrain, but I will, I will let you describe to us what is Anter. Race, Jamie. 

Jamie: So you, you kind of nailed it on, on the head, is that it? It is, it is an off-road triathlon and it's around, it's similar to an Olympic distance triathlon. So our swim is about 1.5 kilometers.

Our bike rides are usually about 18 miles because in mountain biking it's not as, it's not as fast. And we might have like these massive hill climbs and then the run is usually a 10 k. Now that all varies based off of where the races are, but we, we have races all over the world and I used to race all over the world.

I loved it because it was off road, like you're not hitting the pavement. Um, you needed to be, you didn't have to just be a strong cyclist. You also had to be technically inclined. You needed to be able to ride, navigate rock gardens. [00:17:00] Or rock, rock, um, drop offs or you know, any, anything. 'cause it just depended on where we had these races.

But that was the element that I liked. And, and same with just running, trail running. I've always loved trail running more than running on pavement. So it was really my, like I always call it external was my thing. It was my jam. But yeah, I did for seven years I raced all over the world in places like Hungary and Mexico and Costa Rica and Brazil.

And then, let's see, Japan was a big one that I raced out a lot. Austria, Germany, Netherlands, and I, the year I got sick I was gearing up to go to New Zealand and South Africa. So that still like hurts a little that I never got to race those two. But I mean, to me it's one of the most exciting ex like.

Triathlons you can do. And I'd say the shortest one took probably took me a, a little over two hours. And then one of the [00:18:00] longest ones I did took almost four hours. 'cause it was so muddy. So that's why I say it's a, it's a range. It's definitely a range of just the terrain itself is what can make it longer.

Kush: And maybe unlike a regular track law, like you, it sounds like you can't really compare the metrics from one to the other because, well, I mean, I do a bit of mountain biking and I know that, you know, every track, every, every, basically every ride I go on can be so. Dramatically different. And the laugh, which is kind of part of its appeal.

Jamie: Yeah, no, exactly. It's a hundred percent it. And the swims are never the same. I mean, any triathlon, the swims can are, are, are like, they're just, they're gonna be off a little bit. But um, yeah, there's no measuring, there's no comparing. You can't even compare year to year, because let's say it rains one year [00:19:00] and then it doesn't rain another year.

Just the dryness or the wetness of, of your mountain bike trails can change it in, in Milwaukee. One year I lost my shoe in the mud. Like I, we were running and I stepped one foot into the mud and my foot came out, but my shoe stayed in and I had to like go and yank it out of this sticky mud and then throw it back on.

And that was the closest race I had ever won. And it was by like, well, I think it was the second closest but 18 seconds. I went running, running into the finish line, shoot. It was about, you know, about a 400, 400 meters. And I had just passed the gal that had led the entire way. 

Kush: Wow. You lost your shoe, but you still somehow managed to come from behind to, to win this thing.

I mean, if that is not the definition of competitiveness and maybe also gutsiness. Yeah, I don't, I don't know. [00:20:00] I don't know what is, uh, obviously you love the discipline and sounds like that was this, uh, apex moment in your career as a competitive athlete to have been able to go and do these races all over the world.

Jamie, when you think back on those years and all those exciting fun plays went to maybe, what is that one place or that one race that makes you think back and smile and, you know, still get excited? 

Jamie: You know, it's, it's hard to narrow down because each one holds a special. Special place in my heart, like Keystone, Colorado. PR by far was the highest altitude, which, which made it really hard. And that's why I liked it because everybody else would make excuses and I would just be like, I don't care that we're starting at 9,000 feet and [00:21:00] climbing to almost 12,000.

I, I will go. And, you know, and Tahoe was kind of the same way. You're starting at 6,000 feet and you climb up to 8,000. So altitude, I would say I, I did really enjoy those. And the view in Tahoe was just amazing. I mean, you've been to South Lake Tahoe, it's when you get up on the flume trail, it's the most epic view of Lake Tahoe.

But then the people of Japan were some of my favorite people in the whole wide world. And we raced in this little mountain, well, I don't know how little it was, but it was called Lake Maa. And they had this very traditional Japanese hotel that you always had to take your shoes off. You would, you would wear like a robe.

You had your special Japanese robes. We would have traditional Japanese dinners. 'cause this was a very, very traditional Japanese hotel. And, and it was just such a small kind of race that was mostly Japanese athletes or athletes from Guam that you felt. And same with Sipan, but my, my favorite island, [00:22:00] um, where it has so much World War II history.

Right. And then, and then you've just got the whole European scene. They were all very different. Netherlands was this beach race. So I guess if there was a race I did not care for, I would've said Netherlands, simply because it was, it was flat. It was so flat, like we rode on the sand. We had to specially make my tires.

I took downhill tires and we grinded off the knobs so that we could go on the beach, but then you would ride off the beach and we called it the dunes, which was a little bit of a hill, and it was super sandy. So you had to have knobs. You couldn't just run like, you know, a road tire on there. So that one was not my friend.

And one year a buoy sprung loose and it was super choppy water, and people were getting wash boarded up onto these like things. And I was just like, this is insane. I mean, Brazil also on this island was amazing. It was called eLab Bella. And the people there, the culture, the food [00:23:00] was so amazing. So, so it's hard, it's really hard to pick.

Even Czech Republic, like I, we raced around a castle. I mean, how often do you get to say like you Wow. Around a castle? So yeah, it's really hard to pick. I hate, maybe, 

Kush: maybe the question I should have asked is which of those destinations does not make you think back with Ro. Romance? Romance? And, and maybe, maybe, uh, you should have just, yeah, and then you would've said Netherlands because.

The 

Netherlands. 

Kush: I love the Dutch. I, I love the Dutch. It's, it's some of the kindest people on the planet. A beautiful country. But I would say, I would not think of the Netherlands as like the first place I would think to take my mountain bike, or in my case, maybe my climbing shoes. Right. Again, just, uh, staying for a second on the origins of ter, [00:24:00] like, uh, was it, where, where did the sport start really?

And like, how did it suddenly became so ous. 

Jamie: Maui it was because you had, you had, you had Kona, so Iron Man in Kona was just blowing up. People were going, and then it started out as Aqua, I believe it was in 1996. And they, so I was still in college and it was like, I can't even remember the originals, but it was just a bunch of people had come over from Ironman and then kind of did this, did Exterra following that.

It was like the week after, or it was two weeks after? No, I think it was a week after. So anyways, long story short, you had people like Michael Tobin, Ned Overin, and then all your Ironman athletes kind of trying to figure out like, is the mountain biker gonna excel or is the triathlete gonna excel? And I think that's what was so neat.

And the niche about Xterra is that you, depending on the course. [00:25:00] One was stronger than the other. Right. But Ned Overin is a hundred percent the reason I even really kind of committed to doing xera. 'cause I had shown up at Tahoe and I got second place. And long story short, I had, I didn't qualify as an amateur, but I qualified as a pro.

I had, I was pro mountain biker, but I hadn't turned pro and triathlon yet. And you could have a pro license in either one of those. But because my USH triathlon was still an amateur when I got second that day and should have won like $3,000, they wouldn't give it to me because, because the insurance was with USA triathlon.

So they ended up like erasing me from, from the, um. From the, the, the standings, the finish results and net ned over in, I was, I knew exactly who he was 'cause I was working at a bike shop and he said, you really should not [00:26:00] keep pursuing mountain biking because you could have a career in Exterra. And I was just like, oh, it's Ned over and I'm okay.

I'm, I'm doing Xterra. And then he helped me get my first coach. I, I went, I remember going on a ride with him. Like I, Ned was like, he was just the greatest person ever, great spokesperson. And so, I mean, that was what I loved about Xterra too, is that you, you could seriously co the line with any pro and you could be an amateur and take off.

And you're right, you're right next to them. And that was cool. And then I was pro, like, I had one race as an amateur and then, and then I was a pro and people were towing the lines with me, so, 

Kush: wow. I mean, you know, it's like, it's funny how getting the right bit of guidance at the right time can have such a, uh, transformative impact on one's [00:27:00] journey and looks like it shifted your trajectory towards this, this format that you seem naturally gifted for.

Back in those days, Jamie, were you able to make a living racing, like, okay, so like everybody knows that of, of, of triathlons and, you know, the world's best are sometimes recognized in places outside the sport, but like how, what were you doing on those days? Were you a full-time app? Were you supporting yourself doing I.

I guess working at a bike shop, 

Jamie: I, I'd say when I was pursuing being a pro mountain biker, yeah, I was living, living in my dad's house, um, working at a bike shop. I, I, I think I cleaned houses I was coaching. It was just any odds and ends job. That also gave me the freedom to train when I needed to, but then make a little bit of [00:28:00] cash.

And, and so from there, um, I wanna say once I won Sipan, so in 2002. So I turned pro at the end of 2001. And so I was still, oh, let me tell you, when we'd go to races, my ex-husband and I, we would, we would sleep in our car rental because it was either you could keep the car for a day or you could keep a hotel for the night, but then you wouldn't have a car to get to the airport.

So sometimes it meant sleeping in airports. Sometimes it meant sleeping in our car rental, you know, eating peanut butter and jelly sandwiches, like, you know what I mean? Like it was a true starving like athlete story. And I, and many of us have them for, for those days. And I'd say right around 2002, I. I had beat the reigning world champion in Sipan.

I had, I had figured out I saved money, my dad helped me. We flew all the way out to Sipan and I won that race. I think I beat second by 11 minutes and then beat the reigning world [00:29:00] champion man by 26 minutes. So all of a sudden, eyes were kind of on me. Then we went to Ridge Richmond and I had a mechanical, my seat post broke.

Then we went to Keystone and I won again. And then we went to Tahoe and it came down to that race that whoever won that won the series against Melanie Mcco. I ended up winning that like decisively. So I won the whole thing and then by the time I was heading into. Uh, world in Maui. People were starting, sponsors were kind of coming up to me and saying, Hey, we'd like you to use our product and, and this and that.

And I'd say over the seven years, like I, I rode for felt bicycles. My last year I rode for Cannondale. Reebok was a huge sponsor. TYR, cliff, oh my gosh, cliff. And then, um, do you remember First Endurance was the other one. And back then First Endurance and Cliff Bar because they had different products that didn't compete with each other.

I was able to be sponsored by both. And then as soon as they both had bars and [00:30:00] gels and drinks, they were like, you gotta pick one. So, you know, I remember Acai, which was. You know, if you've heard of the acai drink? Um, yes. Yes. Which like, yes. It's like, it's like a super fruit, right? From from, yeah. South America.

Brazil. There you go. And so someone approached me from Zola acai and sponsored me for two years. And, and it's like, you, you fall into this and then, and then you win. You know? Winning meant a lot of money. I would get invited out to Europe, they would host me in places or put me up. I would say, see the Netherlands, I did stay in my first five star hotel.

Like, that was amazing. Like, I was like, this trip was fully worth it because of this hotel. And 

Kush: maybe that's how they, uh, they lud in all the top athletes, right? They're like, exactly. You know, 

Jamie: but it was, it was just that like, you just, I made, you made it happen. Like you fig you figured out a way. And then I was, I'd say by 2003, I was full fledged, [00:31:00] making enough money.

You know, 2004 was like my best year. I won. Every race, but two. So I won the European Tour Championship, which was a payout for winning series. I won the USA championship series, and then I won Worlds that year. So that was like my big year. And then I'd say 2005 and six were a lot of up and downs and seven, um, lots.

And, and it was, but I still was holding pretty strong, like in the sponsorship because I had a, I I, I'd like to say I had a good personality, but I, I did, I, I represented. The companies that I partnered with quite well, I believed in every one of them. I, I didn't jump from sponsor to sponsor, they going after money, which is I think what a lot of kind of athletes do.

And I, I just couldn't do that once I had formed a relationship, Michelin, that was another one, Michelin tires. But I, I just formed these great relationships with these companies and I liked staying with them. And I liked [00:32:00] their, and I believed in their product too, because like, you can't, you can't win on stuff that's not good.

So I'm, I'm gonna be honest, when you're at the elite level, sometimes it really does come down to equipment or choice of tires or how much air you put in your tires. Like, it's the smallest of details that can give you the win. 

Kush: And, and that for sure, like, but even if you make, if you don't believe in the product, I think after a while.

People can see through that, you know? Right. Like people can see that. Jamie, you were, you know, you were peaking as an athlete. Sounds like you were having a whole lot of fun discovering yourself, discovering these places. But then everything changed for you. You were diagnosed with this difficult [00:33:00] kind of cancer and you lost use of your part of your body.

So I, we are not gonna have you go through the whole story, but if we were to go back to that chapter of your life beyond the medical facts, I. What did it feel like day to day? Ooh, 

Jamie: that's a really good question. I'd say it was, it was hard. I think a key, a key thing was when I found out that I was disabled.

'cause everybody kept saying, you're gonna have the Lance Armstrong story. You're gonna come back, you're gonna race as a pro. Like, there wasn't there, there wasn't a great grasp on how I had become, how I had [00:34:00] been disabled from this cancer. Right? And so my thought when I realized that my foot didn't work the way that it should, is I thought, how am I gonna go down a water slide?

Like how will I climb the water slide and how will I go down? I mean, these are the, these are the things you think of. But it, it was, I, I, I describe it as a really hard. Time with dark points, right? Because the, I can remember being up in the middle of the night struggling with pain or, you know, wondering like, is this my life forever?

Like, am I just gonna be confined to a bed? Because I, because the other thing that maybe people wanna know is that I, I kept the cancer came back, and then I got sepsis. So it was not a, a short thing. It wasn't like I went, I found out I had cancer. I went in for surgery and then I healed. This was a year long process of being very scared that the cancer would come back a third time and [00:35:00] I wouldn't survive.

And, and so I, I just remember having a lot of emotions of. Like, I couldn't, the best way to explain it is I, I couldn't see the light at the end of the tunnel, and so I would force myself to be that light. And it was this constant choice of every day of I'm going to get up because one day I'm, I'm going to ride a bike again.

And Bob Babbitt was probably one of the most crucial people that could have called and said, Jamie, there's always the Paralympics. And this was while I was still in the hospital. We had just made the announcement that I had a disability and it was the single thing that I hung on to keep going forward.

Right? Because I had to learn to walk again. And if, because if I was gonna ride a bike, I had to be able to walk. And then so, and so it was just taking steps forward. And then I would kind of get knocked back and then I would take more steps. And it's like I would take five and I'd get knocked back four.

And so. I think one of my, my biggest quotes was, I, [00:36:00] if you can't see the light, you have to become the light. And that's all I did was I just held on that, held onto hope that one day, because I could see it in my head, I could see myself riding the bike again. And, and then I just, I just kept persevering until I finally did, for lack of a better word.

Kush: Jamie, um, this quote from you is indeed quite profound, that when you couldn't see the light, you had to become the light. Could you maybe help remember one or two things from that period where you manifested? This coat of yours? 

Jamie: I'd say the first, the first one was when I found out the cancer had come back.

I, I, I can remember sitting in the doctor's office and I was smiling because I was so [00:37:00] excited to tell them like, Hey, I am, I'm swimming every day and I am lifting weights. And then I would drive to San Francisco and I would get radiation and then I would drive home and it was like, that was my day. I'd get up in the morning, workout, go do radiation, drive home, and I would just be exhausted from it.

And so on day four, I was so excited 'cause they had called me into their office and you could, like, doctors have this like straight face. They're just like. And so I'm sitting here telling him like, it's so great and I'm, and I'm finally off my walker and I've got this cane and my, and my AFOs working. And, and, and, and you, you could tell that they had something to tell me.

And he just, he said, you know, Jamie, it would've not to tell you this, but your cancer's back. And I looked at him and I still kept smiling 'cause I was not gonna let them wipe that smile off my face. And then he said, it's much more aggressive and it's faster growing than we thought. Like they thought it was kind of medium, slow to medium.

And it was a very aggressive cancer. It was a [00:38:00] sarcoma. They were worried it was gonna spread. And I still was smiling and they kept saying, so we need to have another surgery 'cause it's already the same size, it's grapefruit. And I just kept looking at him. And I left the office and, and I di I felt this very heaviness over me that, oh my gosh, like this is, this is real.

Like I could die. Like I survived all of that. I've been, you know, going along with life, trying to make the best of being disabled. Told I'd never run again, maybe never ride a bike. And now you're telling me the cancer's back. And it was, it was such a long drive home and I had to call my ex-husband at the time, or my husband at the time, I had to call him.

I had to call family and I had to tell everybody like, it's, we're not done. Like I'm not done. And we had already set another surgery date and I just, I remember for about a day because that's all I would allow myself a, a day. I just, I was crying and I was processing. [00:39:00] And then I woke up the next day and I was like.

I can't let this change me. I still, I still have to, I have to fight till the bitter end and, and I'm not done. So I went to the gym the next day and I carried on and people would look at me and I would just say, you know, here I am, like I'm doing this. And, and it, and it I did. But I remember that heaviness and then fighting that and looking to the positive of, well, I can still swim, I can still work out, I can still.

Like, inspire others to not give up. Like somebody's probably worse off than me right now. And, and it was like that I would show up to radiation and there'd be all of these ladies sitting in this room 'cause you'd wait. And they were so sad. Like they, you could just see the heaviness on them. And when I would walk into a room, it was like I lit up the room.

They, I would start sharing stories and I would tell them all of this stuff. And I had many [00:40:00] people like search me out, Google me, and send me emails saying that they were really scared about starting radiation. But after meeting me, they knew they could do it. And I, and it was so empowering, right? Like knowing that I could make a positive difference for others.

And it's just, it, I, I just allowed that to fuel me. Then I just kept being a light, kept being a light. And I, and I'm, I would say the next time was when I got sepsis and almost died after the second surgery. 'cause I was like, I just, just had, had it with hospitals and it was, and it, and again, it was another time that was just really hard and I, I mean, I was running a fever.

I didn't know where I was. I was becoming very like, what's going on? And I was having to have all these tests and stuff to make sure it hadn't affected my heart. And I, and then it was just another setback. It was, I was so ready to like start riding my bike. I had just beaten my second cancer surgery and now I'm almost gonna die because of sepsis.

So that was another [00:41:00] really hard time. And once again, it just had to do with people like emailing me or coming to visit me at the hospital and, and just like sharing how much of an impact like I had made thus far. And I just thought, well, I gotta keep going. I gotta, I gotta, I can't give up. And so I got outta bed and I would like hobble to the nurse's station on my walker.

And, and it was just this refusal, my dad always taught me, you know, you, you can't, you can't give up in life. Like you, you just, you can't, you can't allow that to be part of your vocabulary. You have to, when you start something, you finish it. And I had this, I had this motto that I was gonna be like Ned over in and I was gonna be racing well into my fifties and be super competitive.

And I was only 32 at this time. Right. Or 31. And I just thought like I. This can't be the end of my story. I can't let cancer win. I can't let cancer dictate my next chapter. And so there [00:42:00] was just this refusal of like, no, I'm gonna decide my next chapter. So that that was how I, I could continue on and be, be the light.

Was that just that refusal to give up? I think 

Kush: one other thing I sense from your story is that you took it upon yourself to also get your message out, and that started inspiring others. But I also sense that that service maybe came back to you because you found this purpose maybe in some ways different, maybe even greater than your calling as just an athlete.

Sounds like it came back to give you this, this mission that you can't let, [00:43:00] you can't let yourself down and you can't let you know your legion of fans down. In your fight. 

Jamie: I, you've, you've kind of nailed it. Like I'm a person of very strong faith, like very strong faith, and, and I did, I felt my sense of purpose, it was, and I often told myself that if I could help one person, then everything I went through was worth it.

And, and that a hundred percent. Gave me motivation because for me it was, this is part of God's plan for my life, and I, I need to honor it. Like, like that's the thing is we all, we all have this opportunity while we're here on earth to make the most of it. Right. To have the biggest impact. And you're either going to take from that or you're going to give, and I, I'm a giver.

I, I really like pouring into people. It's why I'm coaching high school because it's so important. Like people need to know that they're, that they're just, they're valued as a human being. [00:44:00] Like they're valued for showing up every day. You don't have to be the fastest runner, but you, you can show up every day and be part of this great community that you have to try.

Like, that's my, I would always tell my kids ever since they were little, you have to try. You have to try. You don't know. You don't know where you can go or what doors will open up or what you're gonna like if you don't constantly like, try things and then you can decide. I don't like that. Right. But, um, yeah, for me it's, it's definitely being out there.

I, as you can tell, I'm an extrovert and I, I, I love, love, love meeting people and, and just learning about them and then sharing my experience so that hopefully if they ever encounter something that they think, oh my gosh, I can't do this. They can remember the time that they met me and say, yes, I can. Yes, I can.

Like, that's my whole goal is teaching people that yes, you can, you can do it. 

Kush: And yeah, [00:45:00] just, just simply incredible. Jamie, you changed focus and thanks to the support system you had created, you decided to find this new focus and enter a. Can you just take us back to that moment where your identity had shifted and you are absolutely so positive, but were you also freaking out on the inside as you sought to, I guess maybe.

Maybe you wouldn't have taught yourself like that, but you were like reinventing yourself. Yeah, 

Jamie: I'd say. When I learned I'd never [00:46:00] run again. It was definitely like, it was like being in a room where all the oxygen was like being sucked out of it. And you were trying to, and I was trying to breathe and it was really hard because running, oh my gosh, running was my passion.

I'd been doing it since eighth grade and I, and I just, I loved the feel of it. I loved the smells of it. I loved just my foot, like the pounding of it and, and learning that there was no, no possibility of me ever being able to do that again because of how I was disabled was so hard to take that I held onto well, that I will ride my bike, I will get back on a bike and I clung to that and, and it was like every time I would make steps to getting back on the bike, I would have these huge setbacks.

The cancer came back, the sepsis, then I got pregnant with twins and what happened was I finally. Realized that it was because I was trying to do it and not allowing God to put me on that path. So [00:47:00] for me, it was one day I just said, I released it all and said, okay, God, I I will ride again when you want me to ride again.

And it was exactly, it was almost exactly three years to the day that, um, I had my surgery that we discovered, like everything just lined up. I, I discovered an a FO that I would be able to pedal. We had borrowed a tandem so that I could be on the back. And, and then I, I remember putting my hair in my, my Jamie Whitmore race braids, because I always had double race braids.

And I put my Michelin Baum kit on and I was waiting for my husband at the time to show up. And we went for a ride for an hour. And it was like, I. I mean, it, it was, it was like freedom and independence because I had relied on so many people for, for three years, for, for my care, for helping me learn to walk, for taking medications, for feeding me, bathing me, that this was the [00:48:00] first time that I felt like I didn't feel disabled and I felt independent.

And then that led to my first ride on my own two days later. And I went mountain biking. 'cause I, I don't do anything. I don't do anything easy. Like I straight, I straight went straight to mountain biking. And it was crazy because like, it wasn't the technical downhill stuff that got me, it was the uphill because I was so weak and it was so hard that, and the one leg didn't quite work, right.

So I was learning how to now ride with this disabled leg that just. Just didn't really have strength and kind of flopped all over the place. And so then it just kept evolving. But word had gotten out that I had gotten back on the bike and someone had contacted me from Lifetime Fitness to do Leadville 100.

Um, US Paralympic cycling had contacted me and it was, it, it was just like, oh my gosh. When I stopped trying to do it myself and let the plan, you know, like it was like, it just [00:49:00] boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, and everything started happening. Cannondale was like, we got you, we got bikes for you. We'll hook you up.

And, and then it was, I, I, I don't even know what came first, right? Because it was, I was training for Leadville to get into Leadville, but then I was also pursuing, maybe getting on the national team the year of London, the London Paralympics in 2012. And so I ended up going to nationals. I won my category.

I. You know, I got, I got classified and, but then I didn't make the team because, I mean, it was such a long shot anyways, like I had only been training for three months and so and so then, or like six months and then, but then Leadville was back on the table and Leadville was always on my bucket list, right?

So I ended up doing Leadville and I ended up earning the small belt belt buckle because I did it in under 12 hours. And it, and I, you know, Columbine, like, it's the one where you climb all the way to the top and that's your halfway point, and then you kind of descend all the way down. [00:50:00] There were, there were so many tears when I hit that turnaround point where, and it was like tears of joy, right?

Like I was, I was writing down and just, I was so happy because so many people did, just didn't know. I didn't know, like, was this ever gonna be possible? Was I, was I truly gonna be able to ride my bike again and be competitive and make things happen? And here I was doing one of the hardest races in the world, or at least in the US and being disabled doing it.

And things were still kind of weird. And I did, I completed it and I was passing people, I was passing tandems, I was ripping down the downhill. And it was one of the greatest feelings because gosh, 3, 3, 4 years prior to that, I was in a hospital bed, you know, wondering what my fate was. And here I was like, I.

Taking life by its hands and just embracing this [00:51:00] opportunity. And so, and it, and it, I feel like ever since then, that's what it's been about, is just seizing these moments in these opportunities. And I had gotten invited out to New Zealand and out to Guam to do an exterra. I got invited to go do Utah, um, the, which was the finals for Exterra and it, and it was just, I just kept going.

And in 2013 is when kind of like that Paris cycling career just took off. And I had made my first, my first national team, I got invited to the camp that year. I won the time trial and the road. So I was a world champion. My, my first full year racing as, as a Paralympic athlete. The next year I stepped foot on the track and which is the velodrome.

I was scared to death because I had never ridden a velodrome. And my coach kept saying, dude, mountain biking's way harder. And I was like, but there's no breaks. This is a fixed geared, are you nuts? And if you've ever been to LA's Velodrome, it's like a hot dog [00:52:00] and it's like the steepest walls ever. And so here I am, finding myself trying something new.

I'm in. I was like 30, 37 at the time and I crushed it. I went to Worlds that year. Set two world records, one in the 501 in the three K pursuit for my category. And then it was it, I feel like I just never looked back. It, it was like, full momentum, let's go. I'm gonna get to Rio. 'cause that was my goal. I wanted to compete in the Paralympics and I didn't wanna just compete in the Paralympics.

I wanted to win gold like that, that I was like, I have been to the bottom, I have been in quicksand and I'm gonna make it to that mountain.

Kush: Wow. Jamie. Just, wow. Like people are not watching me here, but like my jaw just dropped. And maybe this is this, this is hitting me particularly hard because, uh, like I was sharing [00:53:00] earlier, I, I am a, I'm a new mountain biker and I kind of mountain bike occasionally, but I absolutely love the sport. I actually went mountain biking in Boulder yesterday.

Nice. And I was attempting this ride, which had some blacks in it. 

Mm-hmm. 

Kush: And I, yeah, I mean, I would try to pedal down like a, a couple of rocky sections, but when it became, when those sections became longer, like I was getting off my bike and I'm an able-bodied person and I was scared. And, and, and here you are with a new body after having lost.

Part of your body and the first sport that you decided to go and joust with was on your mind bike. It might help us. Actually, if you take a second, Jamie, would you mind [00:54:00] helping us understand what were your physical limitations after your illness? 

Jamie: So I have no sciatic nerve in my left leg, which means everything below my knee is paralyzed.

So if you think of somebody in a wheelchair, a para, a paraplegic where they, they can't feel their leg and they can't move it, everything below my knee is like that. I can't feel my foot, I can't wiggle it. It's completely rendered useless. But my quad, so my inner. Left quad worked and those nerves kind of allow me to bend my knee.

So doctors really thought I was, I was, I just wasn't gonna be able to bend the knee at all. But they kind of took over, which is the greatest thing about kind of like our human bodies, is that certain things can happen and they think it has to do with just me being a lifelong athlete. So those kind of, so it allows me to bend my knee so I can kind of walk, but I have no glute muscle and I [00:55:00] have no hamstring.

So the best way to tell people is. About a quarter of my leg works and it's just the inside and my knee. And when you, when you see me walking, you and I, if I have pants on, you might think that I'm an above the knee amputee or a below the knee amputee. Like you can tell there's something physically wrong and when I have shorts on, then you can really see.

And then a bathing suit, definitely. 'cause there's just zero glute muscle. So it's, so if I were pedaling right, your, your foot can go in a circle and you can kind of control the whole point, right? You've got your hamstring, you've got your quad, you're going in a circle. This one, it's like I can go and then it'll get stuck here.

So this one has to push till, till, it can bring it all the way up over here and then it can push again. So it can, it only has that little bit of range of pushing. So that's why it's always been so hard for me to figure out writing. But you can't tell if you're looking at me, right? Because the [00:56:00] pedal, I'm, I'm clipped in and I have to be, or my foot will fall off.

But it just, it goes with the pedal. It just goes. And so this one's doing most of the work and then this one will kind of help. And I've been working with different crank sizes. So the shorter I've gotten on this side, I don't do a full extension and it, and I can feel the quad working more. And the other thing is my knee will often hit the frame because it comes so inward.

So it's, it's a weird thing. But again, if I am not clipped into that pedal with special shoes, my foot will just fall like that because I can't, I don't know where it is and I can't, I can't, there's no grip, there's no traction. So. I often fall if I'm not paying attention or my foot catches on something, if I'm mountain biking, I always have to be with someone because if I'm ever off camber and the good foot is like the, the kind of dangerous side, I can't fall inward.

So I can often fall over the cliff [00:57:00] or I fall to the bad side and then I'm stuck. I can't, I can't get out because I can't, I have no way to articulate my ankle to clip it out. So my son will usually come running You okay, mom? So you, you figure it out. I'm, 

Kush: I'm, I'm still like, I'm still like trying to visualize this Jamie, because, you know, mountain biking is so three dimensional, you know?

Mm-hmm. Road biking. I can still see that, you know, you can get in that zone and your body is kind of moving like a robot and your other leg is the rest of your body For that bit of, um. Uh, differential where your, your, uh, affected leg cannot feel the entire rotation. I can can see that when mind biking where you have to be so agile.

I, I'm just wondering like, yeah, just the first couple of rides you went on and like, how scary or maybe, maybe that was, maybe those [00:58:00] rides were one way, one yet another way of helping you forget the trauma that you were in because like, you probably had to be so like. In the moment, you know, on the trail.

Jamie: Yeah. But you're right, like I did, had to learn to adjust. Right. Because if you're going through a rock garden, you're often wanting your, your cranks to be level, or, or when you're turning, you know, if you're, if you're turning to the right, then you've got this one up and you're planting it down. And I had to learn to do things differently.

Like I could, I couldn't. I'm stronger now, so I can. I am closer to my old style of writing, but back when I first started writing, oh my gosh, I would be descending down and I would have this, I would have all my weight on one side, and if I hit something, I could feel it fishtailing. But I, I was very right dominant.

And now that, again, with the different cranks and just working on certain things and my quad has just gotten significantly stronger. I can [00:59:00] now descend down this way and I don't have a fear that I'll lose control of that, of my left side, but, but they're still turning is tricky. Like, I still don't like to a hundred percent ever weight on my inside leg when I'm going that way.

So I'll kind of like teeter it out to the front and then go, and sometimes I clip pedals, but you know, I mean, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not doing a whole lot of. Like I used to downhill to get better. We used to, I used to hit really hardcore kind of rock drop offs with like six, six inches suspension on the rear and the front, I mean, big, big forks and, and I, yeah, I, I'm not doing that craziest stuff anymore.

I'm sticking to like the smarter, the smarter trails. Little, little bit of rock drops.

Kush: Jamie, I mean, do you sometimes even surprise yourself with like how far you've come? 

Jamie: Yes, all the time. My, [01:00:00] my thing I told myself when I was in the hospital, people used to say, 15 years from now, you're gonna forget. You know, you'll, it'll just be. It'll be in the back. And, and I, I didn't, I don't wanna be that way.

And, and it's hard because I'm disabled, so you never forget that you had cancer. But I, I always remind myself like, on a hard day or a frustrating day when I'm coaching the kids and wish I could run with them or wish I could show them the drill, instead I have to show 'em a video because I just physically can't do it.

I, I always tell myself like, there was, there was a time when you couldn't even get from your bed, my bed to the door, and then from the door to the nurse's station was hard. And then walking a loop in the hallway. And so I, I, I hold onto that just enough to always like, find the joy in today even because, because it can be frustrating.

People can be frustrating. Like when I see [01:01:00] people, I see so many kids with talent, right? And they just kind of are like, eh. Like, uh, I'm not gonna run today, or, uh, that's too hard. I'm not gonna do that. And it, and it like, kills me inside because I would do anything to just be able to go for an easy three mile ride.

And it almost, it just, it just, it, I feel that, I feel that hurt of you are wasting a gift. And I think that's the hard thing for me is I can see potential in so many people, but they have to see their own potential and their worth. Right? Like, I can't tell them, you should be doing this. And so for me though, that's when it's just a little bit hard.

But I often surprise myself when I'm like, I would say bouncing around and thinking I can't do something, and then I kind of pull it off and I was just like, oh, wow, I could do that. At least I tried because there's a lot of, like, when we're in the weight room, I try to show them stuff. [01:02:00] And then I make jokes about it.

But it's back in the day, I couldn't even do like a plank jack. And if I have enough momentum, like I can actually move my leg to the outside. But if I just stand there and try to move my left leg out, it won't go. But I could do a plank jack. There was a time I couldn't even pull What is a, sorry. 

Kush: Uh, a plank jack.

I know. What a plank. Yeah, I know what a plank is. What's a plank jack? So 

Jamie: a plank jack. So you know a jumping jack. You know how your legs spread out? Yes. So a plank jack is, you're in a plank form and your legs jump out and then, and then you come back in, and then you jump out. And my core is so strong.

Like these high school kids have nothing on me. I laugh at them when I make them do.

A 49-year-old disabled person OutCo you. So I, I challenge them by the end of the year. Can you OutCo me? Because you'll just see them all shaking. But it's [01:03:00] because it's what I've had to do to be stronger, to be able to walk, to be able to ride better. You. Everything is about your core, right? It's your trunk.

When your trunk is solid, the, the rest of your body is gonna be solid. And I just feel like it's a longer, longer life of sports as well, if you've got that solid core. So I wor I've worked a lot and there was a day I couldn't even do that. I, I couldn't even do a plank. I would just, and I'd fall so I can do chin-ups now.

I can do a lot of pushups. I mean, and I would say every time I do squats, it's always one leg. That's the thing about being a one leger is 

Kush: that's crazy. 

Jamie: Everything's a pistol squat. You know, you're always squatting with one leg. I mean. I, 

Kush: so, so Jamie, like how much of your time every day or every week are you spending doing like, I don't know, crunches or like, I don't know, hanging leg raises [01:04:00] or like how do you keep your, your, your, your course or damn strong?

Jamie: Yeah. I would say it's like four, four to five days a week for 10 minutes. That's all I do. And I, and I change it up. So I, my favorite is like, stir the pots on a, you know, a big Swiss ball, the big giant balls. Um, yes, I go, you stir this way, you stir that way. And then I add where you go out and you come back in and that is legit.

And then I also use the TRX where I do a pushup and then I go into a V and then I do a pushup and I go into a V. And those are my two. Like, and sometimes I'll bring out that big, the big Swiss ball to the kids and I'll challenge them to do a stir the pot. They can't even do one. 

Kush: I love it. I 

Jamie: do like 15.

Kush: No, and I love it. And it's, it's, it's like, I think what, what you're sharing is it's not always, uh, maybe the, the duration of like the workout, it's maybe the consistency and the intensity. 

Yes. 

Kush: Because I, I do some of those [01:05:00] exercises you're telling me, because I guess I would, I had more time to go to the gym and spend, you know, so much time doing core work and, and now I hate that stuff.

I don't know, I, I just hate that stuff, but I know that it is important for me and those benchmarks are also important for me because I also cannot let, like the kids at the, at the climbing gym outshine you when it comes to doing leg raises. I make sure I get those TRX, you know? Right. Four workouts in and those leg because it's like, I mean, I don't know, it's kind of becomes part of your identity, right?

Yeah. And it could be worse. It could be it. As far as what, what one identifies one with, there could be things a lot worse than, you know, having some like, nerdy, nerdy exercise goals. Um, you know, we live in these times, right? Like America is going through like this, I don't know, this obesity [01:06:00] crisis and, you know, people are so unhealthy everywhere around you, around us.

Uh, let me add that. Yeah. And I, I know this, I mean, it sounds like a simple question, but maybe not, maybe it's a difficult question, but like, what would you say to people listening, right, who are able bodied and need to find. Motivation to be able to continue moving as they get older? Like what can they start doing today?

What are some actionable things they can take over here? 

Jamie: You know, for me, I've always found. The key to staying motivated has been variety for me. I, I don't like riding the same place. I don't like doing the same core workout, and I emulate that with my athletes, right? Every one of them. I try to change [01:07:00] it up enough every day so we don't do the same strength exercises.

Each day. Some will be similar, and I'll repeat some, but for the vast majority, I'm always introducing something new because I think, I think we get bored, right? We live in a world where you can just hop on your phone and be entertained, right? You can, I, I mean it's, it's, people are, and people are always looking for the easy, the easy button.

I hate that commercial, like just push the easy button. And I've always been a person that's chosen the hard way. But I recognize that not everybody is like that. So the first thing is you just ha you have to start, you have to start, you have to walk, you have to get on a bike, you have to join a gym. You have to go play pickleball.

You've got to start. And the second is like investing in yourself and making it fun, right? The third, I would say the third would be make it fun and then, and consistency. I. You can't, don't go so big on the first day that you can't even walk or do something the next day. It's like little [01:08:00] baby steps. Start, be consistent and make it fun.

Find someone to help you to go along with you, hold you accountable. This is why we do summer practices, because everybody will always tell you, I like running with someone. And if, and if one of my athletes is by themselves, I will generally tell I will ride with them. Or I will tell them either slow down a little bit to run with the people behind you or speed up and run with the ga the group in front of you because running by yourself is not fun.

And the other thing I do with my, the kids that I coach is. Three days a week we actually play running games. Right. Because who doesn't like playing a running game? We do, we do dodge ball and you have to race to get the balls and then you have to run back, and then you're throw and they're running all around.

We've done a water gun fight where you're running around a football field, like chasing people with water sticks. Then we've done, we're gonna do capture the flag this week. We've done sharks and minnows, so it's like a form a tag and, and it's just you. The kids [01:09:00] don't even realize how much more they're now running because they're too busy being chased by someone or chasing someone.

Kush: Sure. 

Jamie: But it's like, it's just that fun element and, and I teach these kids, it's, it's about a lifestyle. Being healthy and, and being active is, is, is isn't just choosing to eat well, it's choosing to be active and you don't have to run for the rest of your life, but it is the easiest. You, you just need a pair of shoes.

You could run in jeans. My son runs in jeans. You know what I mean? So you just truly need shoes. And a stopwatch is nice, but you don't need a stopwatch. You could run with your phone. It is the most minimalist activity that you can do anywhere in the world at any given time. You could even do it indoors on a treadmill when you're at a hotel.

Like there's zero excuses, but challenge yourself, like have a [01:10:00] goal. I'm a very goal-oriented person. One of the things I was teaching my kids is pick, pick a micro goal and pick a macro goal. So pick something that maybe you can achieve in a month, in a week, in two months. And then pick something that's like, but that you can achieve it, right?

Like it's there. Your goal could be, I wanna work up to run eight miles. You're gonna do it, you will do it. And then there's a macro goal, which is the one that's way far away and make that one, like, you might not make it, but you might get it. You know what I mean? Something so far out there. But that like, you're driven to get it.

And when you have these two goals, you feel the satisfaction of meeting that first one and then you chase after that harder one. And I, I just think people give up too easily. You know what I mean? Like, it's like, oh, it's hard. I don't wanna do it. Every life is hard. The best things in life are that to which we worked hard for.

That's my motto. 

Kush: [01:11:00] Somebody else, uh, said this to me recently, which is go and chase the fun. And yeah, if there there's a trick to make any difficult activity both on and off the playing field fun, then we can subconsciously reap the benefits without, uh, it feeling like drudgery going on this train of thought, a lot of people who are listening to their podcast, they are trying to stay active, strong, and.

Free in their forties, fifties, sixties, and and beyond. Mm-hmm. And then from, from your perspective, [01:12:00] Jamie, both as an athlete and a coach, what should we be doing differently as we age? Mm-hmm. And just FII I'm also in my upper forties, so just like you, I'm also, you know, the, the big, the big five Oh is, is, is knocking.

Jamie: Right? I know, right? I was, I've got a year. I just turned 49 in May, and I've, I, I would say it's weird because. Say 40. 40. I still felt like I was in my twenties. Like I was still super competitive. I was hitting high power, high, you know, based off of my disability. But like, it was totally achievable. And then, you know, I'd say it's kind of ebbed and flowed.

And I finally got a new coach because I had been with my, my other one for like over 10 years, and he was amazing. But we all, we all get stagnant. We all become, I don't even wanna use the word complacent, but, but people do become complacent as well. I. [01:13:00] When you're doing the same thing all the time, it's not going to change.

Your body knows that routine. Your mind knows that routine. And it's, it's like, it, it's like you dread it. My coach could give me two workouts in two weeks. That's the same thing. And I'm already dreading it. I have to go ride in a new place so that, because I'm like, ah, I gotta do two by twenties again. But I would say the key, the key to being older for me has truly been being more to the point.

So when I, I'm very intentional. There's the word I was looking for. I'm very intentional when I go into the weight room. Okay. I'm not, I'm not, I'm doing something that's engaging my whole body. So. You could, you could do a normal squat and you're just working your, your squat, right? Or you could do a pull off squat, which is you're holding a medicine ball.

You can squat down, and then you can extend out and come in, right? And then you come up and then you squat, and then you go out and you come in. [01:14:00] I've done a renegade row, which is, you're in a plank position and you row up here, and then you row here. So, so I'm working on core and I'm working on my arms, I'm working on my legs, I'm working on core, and then I'm working on my arms.

So everything I do is working like the whole body. So instead of spending an hour in the gym. I mean, I do have one leg, but my, my workouts are generally done in 30 minutes. And, and then I'll, I'll add on maybe another eight to 10 minutes for more core, because I just, I love core, and again, it's changing the routine.

I don't do the same thing all the day, every day. I might do side planks where I'm reaching and going up, up. I might do hip dips. Um, I change up the core all the time. Doing it with peoples really helped, you know, um. Sometimes too. It's doing things like water aerobics is great for people who they can't have the impact, but it's such a low calorie burning [01:15:00] thing, right?

Like you're just not gonna burn the calories is if you get on a bike. Get on a bike and go ride. Join a spin class, push yourself. You'll spend less time. That's why I like running, running. You can burn more calories and get your workout done in 30 minutes. Boom, you're done. But also, it's like changing it.

You don't wanna just run 30 minutes every single day. You wanna run 30 minutes, then you wanna run 45, then maybe only a 15 minute run. Then you wanna throw in some accelerations or something like do a quick, if you're on a track, run a hot, run a fast lap, run a easy lap. Run a fast lap. Run a easy lap. You have to constantly be changing what you're doing because the same thing will only get you to a certain point and then your body just plateaus.

Your mind plateaus. So that's so variety. So there you go. That in, in, in a very short way, it's variety. Sure. 

Kush: Jamie, do you work, [01:16:00] do you work with a coach yourself? Like do you have a plan that you follow or, or is a lot of this based on gut and feel, and I guess all the muscle memory that you have accumulated over time?

Jamie: I do have a coach, and, and again, he's a new, he's new to me, so I've been with him for about seven months. My other coach I had been with for a little over 10 years, and he, I, I like him because he trained under my first coach. Uh, and then, but then, but he's different enough that my brain is very stimulated and my body is responding really well.

And, and then when it comes to like strength training, he'll give me things like new things that I learned. Like a lot of my new core has been from his wife who's from learning to be a Pilates instructor. And it's been fantastic. It's stuff I just never even knew existed. And so then I incorporate and I adapt.

Things that he's teaching me. [01:17:00] And, and then I then apply that as I do my own research and my own memory of years of, of, you know, doing strength training. And then I do that with the kids and I implement that for them and I create programs for them. But I also. Do other things. So I like to go out and kayak.

I do like to rock climb, but that's the one that I do the least. I was learning to sit ski, so I keep challenging myself to do new things so that I'm not always doing cycling. And back in the day when I was a triathlete, it was like three different sports built into one, right? Like I was always doing something different.

And I think that's also the thing that we forget. It's like we're runners and we only run, but it's like if you're a runner, you should be cycling. It will make you faster and it will make you stronger and everyone should lift. You all should lift for your bone health. We should all be lifting and you don't have to like lift as in like weights.

You can do a lot of stuff just by jumping and [01:18:00] doing band work. And I'm not talking like box jumps, it's just doing single leg. If you've ever watched soccer, they do a lot of drills where they do like scissor kicks and they do in outs and they hop on one leg and then they switch and hop on another because it's just good for our bones to like build that density.

It keeps us from getting osteoporosis. 

Kush: I mean variety. I mean this is such a crucial line, but variety does like add spice and like one thing I was. Like I was sharing that I'm new to man biking, and the one thing I love about man biking is that like, you know, my, my goals are like pretty low. Like it's a new sport for me.

It's not my primary sport, but I still get so much joy out of it. And I think all of us would be better served if we were to just go outside of core sport and pick up something new, because [01:19:00] if nothing else, it just keeps things fresh. Yeah. So when one comes back to one's primary sport, it just feels like less heavy because you had so much fun, you know, getting your ass kicked, you know, you know, like in my case, mind biking.

But in somebody else's case it could be, I don't know, uh, swimming or, or, or running or maybe even playing pickleball. Just, just good to have that. Just good to have this. Excitement of taking advantage of like, all these resources that we have today that we didn't have, uh, before. Jamie, you have accomplished so much over the decades.

I mean, you have come back again and again. Like what is, what, what, what excites you these days? What are you stoked about? 

Jamie: You know, I, I still, I love traveling If I, I keep [01:20:00] racing because of the excitement of traveling. I like, I like being the veteran. So while I might not be, you know, the winner anymore, the world champion, I, I like that I can, I can be in a race and be fifth and then the next race, I sneak into the podium and I get second or third.

You know what I mean? It's, it's like that. I've still got it, but I also then love coaching my kids and making my kids the focus of, of my life. And I've got three more years and they're off to college. So, and I'm, and I'm very, I'm a very intentional mom. I am a part of their life. I like being a part of their life.

I like being involved. I like teaching them. And, and then so they can like spread their own wings soon and after three years do I, in three more years, they're gonna be 18 and they can choose to come to me for advice. Right now I can still keep giving it to 'em, but so, so for me it's, [01:21:00] it's just, it's being involved in doing what they do.

But first and foremost, like I love traveling the world. I love experiencing culture and tasting different foods and meeting different people. And so whatever will keep me doing that, I want to keep doing. And I also love being a motivational speaker. I, it's ever since COVID, it's kind of ebbed and flowed.

And the last couple years, because I've been so focused on now being coaching their, their track and cross country teams that I've kind of not been doing it a lot, but I've always found great joy in sharing. My story and my journey with others because, because it is so many different elements, right? Like it's, it's, I've been the pro, I've gone down and hit the valley and then climbed a mountaintop as a para athlete.

I've, I'm a mom, I'm the cancer survivor. It's, yeah, there's all these like different elements that help me share my story. And it's very [01:22:00] relatable to people because everyone will know. Either they themselves will have cancer or they will know someone. I mean, that's the world we, we live in and people need hope because I've already lost like two friends to cancer.

So it, it, it doesn't, not everybody has my story and that's hard. And it's hard for people to sometimes have hope when they get a prior cancer diagnosis. So I think it's like super important for people to see like, Hey, mine, mine wasn't Lance Armstrong. I didn't come back and be a pro, but I did come back and do this.

Right? Like, it doesn't, not everybody's story is gonna be the same. You can still have hope. So, oh, and ping pong. My son, my son for Christmas, my son for Christmas was like, mom, I want a ping pong table. This kid literally asked for ping pong table, asked his dad for a special, like $50 paddle. The kids got mad skills, like he's also picked up tennis and he is doing really well at that.

[01:23:00] But we will go out and we will have night ping pong sessions and I practice as much as I can when he's not around and he still still kicks my butt. Like we we're a very competitive family. We don't like to lose. 

Kush: Jamie, I will offer you this, which is, I have to be pretty good at, uh, ping pong osh. Uh, actually we used to call it table tennis.

Yes. I like table tennis. Ping pong sounds a little bit like silly to me. While it can be like really engaging and a serious game. Yeah. And you also mentioned that when you go on biking, it's helpful to have a companion. So maybe the next time I'm coming through California, your neck of the woods, if you are okay with an easy ride and, and you need a companion mm-hmm.

I would love to offer my services and then we go back and [01:24:00] decompress with some ping pong. 

Jamie: I would love that. Anything that you could teach me to beat my son, I am in. I even went and got a paddle. I got like the $50 paddle to play him because I was like, he's schooling me. His paddle is better. He still beats me one time.

One time I beat him and oh man, I was like, and he. 

Kush: Well, I mean, you know, given the way you take on things, I won't be surprised that by the time you meet, like you would have far superseded my, my ancient skills in the sport. Uh, talking about your sons do, do they, do they realize, do they know the, I don't know the, the phenom you were back in the day.

Jamie: It's, it's hard to tell. Like, I don't even think they've ever watched one of my videos, which I, which I, I think maybe when they were really, really little, I, I showed them a video of when I had two, the two good legs and I was racing in Saipan or something. [01:25:00] Um, it ebbs and flows like they know, they know 'cause they've been, they've been to the two Paralympic games.

They were there when I won Gold. They were, and Silver, they've been to a few of my world championships and, and they've, they've been. To some of my speaking engagements, but I'm still just mom, like I am. I'm the mom that embarrasses them or you know, like makes them clean their room. But, but they're friends.

I think, um, there's oftentimes when a handful of their friends definitely are like, super grateful that I'm coaching and they love that. And, and then sometimes now I think they're so used to me too that it's like, ah, it's just Jamie. Uh, do we have to run today? You know, there's, I don't, I don't hold that super stardom anymore, but once I get into a circle or a realm of people that are like, Jamie, are you, are you, wait, are you Jamie Whitmar?

Then you can tell that there's a [01:26:00] little bit sense of pride that, yeah, that's my mom. That's my mom, but they'll never, they'll never let me know that. 

Kush: Yeah. No, that, you know, I mean, I'm, I'm older than your kids are and I still. I still don't think I know how to ask the right questions to get my mom to open up about her life, you know, before she, she had me and my brothers.

So hopefully your kids will, uh, turn out to be more thoughtful and, uh, uh, better listeners than Jamie. Uh, a few questions, uh, before we let you get on with your evening.

What's one thing you have changed your mind about in the last few years? 

Jamie: Hmm.

I'd say I used to be super. [01:27:00] Like, I liked to be able to control every aspect of what I did. Right. And then it's like, then you get cancer and you're relying on people. And then I had twins, and you're really relying on people. And so I would say over the years I've learned that you don't, like, I don't need to control everything, that it's better to kind of be like a rubber band and be flexible than like a stick because you'll break.

So I try to, I try to hold that, like, I just gotta be flexible. I gotta be flexible. I gotta let this go and, and then figure out another way. So I'd say that's the greatest thing is just not, not holding so tightly onto stuff and just kind of like letting it go and, and learning to, to, like, I. Evolve and be flexible.

Kush: Got it. Got it. Yeah. I mean, um, I, yeah, aging teaches us flexibility if nothing else. 

Jamie: Exactly. I don't wanna break. [01:28:00] 

Kush: And Jamie, besides your core workouts, what's one habit or routine you, uh, swear by? 

Jamie: Ooh. Ooh, because I do swear by core, um, eating, eating well, like the foods that think of your body, like a car. If you give it, if you run on empty, you're not, you, you, like, you're gonna, you're gonna just not be able to go anymore.

Right? You can only go so far on fumes. Also, if you give yourself crappy gas, you don't run as efficient, so. Think everybody in that same way. You need to always be fueling, you need to always be eating, and it needs to be the right foods. Like really choose what goes into your body because it matters. Like often I did not eat well when I was younger, and I think of how much better of an athlete I could have been and, and maybe that's what led to, to my cancer, right?

Because we don't know, we don't always know [01:29:00] what causes cancer, but your food, food, think of food like gasoline for a sports car and treat your body like a sports car. Give it only the best 

Kush: for sure. Jamie. Many people listening, maybe many of the able-bodied people listening, they likely don't know enough about sports for adaptive athletes, such as even sports as big as, or events as big as the Paralympics.

What's one reason why people need to pay the Paralympics more attention. 

Jamie: Because it is some of the most inspirational athletes that you will ever meet in your life. I mean, the stories that come from Paralympic athletes is so far greater than when I was like an able-bodied athlete. Like the hardest [01:30:00] thing you might occur is, oh, I had a bad day.

Or, I mean, there could be more emotional things that happen, but when you have a physical disability to where your daily life. Has challenges just walking or visually impaired people, right? You can't see anything. You're heavily reliant on somebody picking you up or guiding you somewhere. Um, when you go to the Paralympics and you see all of these different sports where people have adapted and they're so, so competitive, just watch the at watch track and field watch swimming, watch cycling.

My, my, my, one of my bestest friends who's a paraplegic in a wheelchair, he hand cycles and he hand cycles up a lot of the mountains that I. Cycle up like with his arms. Could you imagine climbing pipes? Peak? He climbed, we climbed pipes peak together. I rode the whole thing with him. He did it all with his arms.

It's, [01:31:00] it's some of the, and people complain on their legs, which is the two strongest muscles in your body, right? Your quats. So, and your glutes. Your glutes. So it's one of those, it's just incredible. Goal ball is played by people who cannot see and have to listen for a ball, right? They have to listen for the ball.

They have to stop it, and then they have to try to make a goal to the other side. It's incredible. Mur. Um, I call, I almost called it murder ball, but wheelchair rugby is, is a lot, is people with multiple issues. They might be quads, they might have hands and feet issues, but they're all in wheelchairs, just slamming into each other.

And it's essentially just, it's rugby. It's so exciting to watch. And then you've got. Soccer with people with cp, which is cerebral palsy. So they've got some sort of like paralysis to their arm and leg and they're just running around kicking the ball, just like regular soccer players and, and it's just incredible people missing both their limbs running on two [01:32:00] prosthetics super fast.

And so it's, I don't know, we get stuck in this poor me attitude, right? Like I'm sure we all know someone that is the victim or, oh gosh, life is so hard. You watch the Paralympics and there's no way you will not walk away inspired and thinking, I'm never going to feel sorry for myself again. I feel that way and I'm part of the, part of the Paralympics, but I will always meet someone else that I'm just like, dang, you're amazing.

Because we can all inspire each other. 

Kush: Jamie, I know you, you speak at events, you know, actually you say that yourself, you. Or a motivational speaker. I am curious if you ever got feedback from one of your talks, maybe the impact they made on somebody that even took you [01:33:00] by surprise.

Jamie: Um, I'd say every once in a while, well, I'd say almost every talk a, at least a handful of people will come to me and share, um, something that they've taken away. But one, one person had just lost someone to cancer and they were really struggling with it. And I'd say, you know, there were some things that were shared and they definitely, after my talk, it just changed their perspective, their outlook.

They weren't. Angry with God anymore after hearing my story, because I was never angry with God. And they were. And I think those are the ones that definitely kind of wow. That, that's huge. Like that. I couldn't ask for anything better than to someone, to, for someone to say that. Like they found their way back.

I, I, I mean, it, it is very touching. It's, it [01:34:00] hits home. 

Kush: Beautiful. A fun question. What's been the best use of a hundred dollars in recent memory? Doesn't have to be the exact amount. 

Jamie: Hmm. Um, gosh. I don't know. I always like to spend my stuff on other people. I, I'd say getting, getting the kids like water balloons and power aid bars and things like that so that it, that they, so that it enhances their experience at our next like workout, you know what I mean?

If I can make a workout fun, I would say that that's when I've spent my a hundred dollars. I got Dodge Balls, I went to Walmart and bought a bunch of like the real dodge ball, dodge balls, and the kids just love it. Five bucks a piece. 

Kush: Awesome. But hang on. Who still eats Powerade bars? 

Jamie: [01:35:00] How do you know?

They're on Amazon and on a hot day? I don't like it because there's high fructose corn syrup and red dye in the red ones, but every once in a while I feel like a little splurge is okay. Okay. 

Okay. Yeah. They, they, 

Jamie: no. Oh, oh, I'm talking about the, the power aid. The power aid. The, it's, um, so you know the drink Power aid?

Kush: Ah, power aid. Yes, of course. Of course. 

Jamie: They make them in like instead of a Otter Pop, it's a power aid pop. Oh, 

Kush: did I say 

Jamie: power bar? I meant power aid. No, 

Kush: no. I pop. 

Jamie: It's fine. There you go. Okay. Okay. I did 

Kush: not, I did not realize that they made bars as well. I'll have to keep an eye out for 

Jamie: They're like Otter Pops.

It's an Otter Pop. 

Kush: Okay. I, I, I don't even know what an otter pop is. What's an Otter pop? Oh my gosh. 

Jamie: Hang on one sec. I'm gonna show you. I'm gonna show you.

So like, this is a Powerade pot. Like here. See? So there you freeze 'em. [01:36:00] 

Kush: Oh, okay. So 

Jamie: I know I'm giving Powerade APL a plug. But yeah, I found those on Amazon and I breeze them. And on our really hot days, after a long run, I hand 'em out to the kids. 

Kush: Okay. They, they look refreshing. And, you know, this summer, because the temps seem to be just rising higher and higher, I'll have to, uh, think about getting me some.

And Jamie, final question. What does being ageless mean to you?

Jamie: I, I think I will be, I would say just, just keep going. Like, not, not letting. Age get in the way of whether I can do something or not. We, we kind of, okay, let me give you an example on our kind of on, in the Paralympics, you can often be older. The Olympics is often younger people, right? I mean, gymnasts, they're not really exceeding 20 years old.

And, [01:37:00] but in the Paralympics you can have a lot of 40 year olds and 50 year olds. It is not just for the 20 year olds. And I think that's kind of one of the things is we are not defined by our age. We, we keep competing and we keep going. And that's kind of the thing is as long as I can pedal my bike, I'm gonna race it until it's not fun anymore, right?

Like, if it's not fun, I don't wanna do it. But, you know, being ageless is just doing, doing everything. Despite that it might hurt a little bit more the next day. Or I love that. 

Kush: Yeah. Trying to 

Jamie: keep up with the kids. It's, it's just that refusal to sit on the couch or not do it, because I think I'm too old.

Like, I don't know. I, I hang out with all these 15 year olds and I think I'm still one of the cool kids. Like, I'm, I'm only, I'm not 49, I'm not your coach. I wanna hang out with you guys. You're the ones jumping off rocks and playing in [01:38:00] the river and paddle boarding. You're who I wanna hang out with. 

Kush: Love it.

Yeah, no, it sounds like, you know, coaching these kids kind of helps you back in a way, which is like, it's different than hanging out with people, you know, our age or older. Because, because, because from, from like being like the strongest or the most able, suddenly you become like somebody who needs to kind of keep moving.

Exactly. To keep up with these young ones. Jamie, it's been an honor and a delight having you on the show today. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me.