#82 Climbing the World’s Hardest Big Wall by Sailboat — How Living Your Values Elevates the Goal, and Why the Right Partner Makes It Possible

Ageless Athlete - Seb Berthe
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Kush: [00:00:00] I always like to start with this question, which is where are you right now, and what did you have for breakfast today? 

Seb: Hey, uh, thank you so much for having me here. well right now I am in South France, south west of France.

and I had, what did I have? Oats, um, with fruits and water because we had no more, uh, soya milk. So, yeah. So yeah, that was a pretty modest, pretty handle breakfast this morning. 

Kush: go ahead. 

Seb: I, I had a beach. I had a beach and like, uh, some quick oats, so that was fine. That was fine.

Kush: You know, it's funny, I, I had a very similar breakfast. I also had oats and fruit, and then I had some leftover. Oat milk that I found in my, in my fridge because I had a friend visit me, and that's how she likes her [00:01:00] coffee. I drink my coffee without anything, but she likes, so I, I was out of yogurt, so I often add yogurt to my, my oat oatmeal, but then I, I found milk.

It's funny you are in this land of, Hi cuisine. You're in France. That's true. And you had to add water to your oatmeal. I mean, if that doesn't like, uh, speak to adventure and like the pure dirt bag lifestyle. 

Seb: Yeah, that's true. I mean, to be honest, I'm, I just arrived in France. I, I came from, I just come from Yosemite right now.

I mean, it's weird to say so. 'cause I, it's been a month and a half that I left the valley and we did a, we crossed the Atlantic by, with the sailboats. So it took, it took us like almost two months to, to live like from the valley to here in France where my girlfriend is just living here. And I'm pla I'm, I'm still, uh, I am actually, I'm still not home.

Like I still have, uh, 1, 1 1 day of [00:02:00] traveling by train, uh, back to Belgium. So I. So I'm still, I'm still in a dirt bag mode right now, so that's why maybe like, you know, we just arrived at, at her place and they were like, the, the fridge was empty and yeah. So that's why, that's probably why. 

Well, 

Kush: well, good, good thing you are still strong.

You still have your, uh, I guess your, your, your, your, uh, I don't know, your strength to adapt to different food and, and to do without certain foods because I think, I think a lot of us who live in the west, you know, we are so used to our creature comforts is very easy to get soft. And of course, yeah, we were demanding would like, have all of those things around us.

And if we don't have those things, then we. And we suffer. So maybe this is a good segue into this question. So, you know, I've been really looking forward to this conversation, uh, because, [00:03:00] you know, it's not just about your climbing, it's about like how you live and the alignment you have between your values and your actions.

Before we get into your big projects and you just got back from Yosemite, um, you seem to like treat adventure and even chaos. I don't know, in this joyful spirit from what I, I could see. So what does adventure mean to you right now? Sev? 

Seb: Hmm. Yeah. I mean, yeah, that's true that I, I try to, to see the good side of like a hard situation is like.

It can be like being, being on a wall, being cold or, or being in, in the middle of the Atlantic on a sailboat, like throwing out because it's moving too much. on the other hand, I also have bad, bad moments, like maybe I don't share them as much as the good ones. [00:04:00] That's why as well. Uh, what's, what's adventure for me?

I think I would say it's something unknown and you step into this unknown, yeah. 

Kush: Back from Yosemite, you did the ascent in back in January, and I didn't realize that you have been away and it took you this long to 

Seb: Yeah. To get back. So like, 

I mean, 

Seb: yeah. The, so the whole idea of the trip was. To do like this huge, huge adventure trying to, so I already did a trip like that three years ago where we tried to, to go to Yosemite from Europe with like, without taking any plane.

Um, so with sail, and it took us already 10 month of trip last time. So, and, and my goal was, was still to, to climb the down wall at the time. [00:05:00] And, and I failed last time. So the idea this year was to try again and like in the same style or at least the similar style. So yeah, I spent six months in the US and six months in the valley.

yeah, I wanted, I, I, I think, or at least the, the idea of this trip was also like to live, I. in a slow way, like to really experience a place as we experience Yosemite for, for such a long time, and also experienced a, a different kind of traveling, which is slow and you need to accept it. And that's something I would say in our society doesn't happen so much.

I mean, yeah, you, you never experienced something like, like selling, like coming from, uh, from the CED going back to Europe. It's something weird. You're like, I'm going back home, but it's still, it's gonna be in, in like eight weeks or [00:06:00] something, you know? And, and we, for example, we, uh, we had this situation with the sailboat where we broke a part of, of the boats, like just starting from, from Florida.

And I. We had to stop, just like we were about to start from like, on the Atlantic and we broke that, I don't know the word in, in English, the key or something. And, and we spent another week trying to fix it, you know? And like, that's something we don't usually do in, in our way of life. Like just take a, a whole week, like try to fix something.

And, and the idea was to try not to be too much worried about it or be okay about the, the, the thing of taking so much time to do something. And, and that's not easy, huh? Like you said, you said it looked, it looks maybe positive or something, [00:07:00] but when you are like in, in this really small island where you can't do anything, like just, and just waiting for a week like to, to get back, like just to start moving.

Then you move like about 10, 10, 10 k, uh, like per hour or something, like 10 miles per hour. Um, like, or even less, like, yeah, that's something that, and that was the idea of the whole trip. Try to, to get comfortable with this slow way of living and just, yeah. Take, take the time and not being in a rush all the time.

Which, and I, you know, like I've been here in France for the last two, three days and I'm already back into this mode where like, I need to rush, I need to check my emails and, and I, yeah, I would recommend everyone like just to leave this, this slow period in, in their life. 

Kush: Yeah. I mean, [00:08:00] said that was, 

Seb: yeah.

Kush: Yeah. That was so deep. You know, you were smiling the whole time. But a few months ago I was in Red Rocks and I accidentally broke. The circuit breaker that charges my, my alternative from the solar panels. So I was running out of power and I'm in this, oh yeah. I'm around the city. I have all the conveniences and it took me just a day to fix it, but I was so stressed out.

Right. I mean, I, I think that I'm doing this slow life by living in a van and Of course, yeah. But, but like, I'm still wired to have, to need to be able to have everything done right away. I don't wanna jump too far ahead here, but I, I just had this thought set. Seth, you spent multiple, multiple days on. Just on lcap, on the dawn wall, I think your first trip you spent over 20 [00:09:00] days consecutively when you sent, I think you were there for a couple of weeks, right on the wall.

Yeah. And we will get into that a bit, uh, bit more later. So you also then spent this week in this one thing of fixing this, uh, this thing to allow you to sail your boat and then you spent multiple months on the boat itself. So do you think being in a boat and traveling slow, do you think that helped prepare you for the days on the wall or do you think it was the other way around?

Do you think having this big project being stuck on the side of the wall, do you think that helped you gain the patience to be able to travel slow? 

Seb: Of. So, uh, I would say that, yeah, I think this whole adventure, like these two trips of 10 months, both, [00:10:00] both, and like this, this, so I, we crossed the Atlantic four times in, in total, which was, I think I, I counted the days we spent on the ocean in total, but I, I believe it's about eight months in total living on a boat.

I'm sure it's taught me patience. I wasn't someone like especially patient before, not at all. Um, my whole life I've, like, I've always wanted to do more and like do something else. And I think people would, would say that I'm more like, uh, super like, active per person or someone like who, who, who does a lot For sure. Like the, like the sail parts taught me to be patient, that's for sure. And then, yeah, I think it also helps to value the thing when, when you are there, like when you get to Yosemite and you spend so much time getting [00:11:00] there, like it's, there's so much value in just being there. That's, uh, that's also a nice, a nice part I would say.

I, I, I'm not saying that's like, I'm sure if I take a plane tomorrow and I arrived in the valley with good conditions, which, which is not the case right now. It's too warm for sure. I'm sure I would enjoy it a lot, but, yeah. Yeah. Like you see, think maybe in a more beautiful way. Like for example, I just, so we just arrived three, three days ago today.

We just did this scramble running day in the mountains here in the PNA. That was, that was amazing. Like just being there like, uh, it's so green. It's so like, just running in the mountains. Uh, I'm certainly not in a good shape at all, but that's, it's, it's really nice 

Kush: as well, so, 

Seb: yeah. 

Kush: Yes, I can only imagine [00:12:00] the sense of appreciation you have for big open spaces that you can move your body, move your spirit the first time you got on that boat, sep, or I'm not sure if this is the first time you embarked on this type of adventure, but I'm really fascinated by what you said about just appreciating where you are.

Because I think as climbers, as outdoor adventurers, you know, we are, we can become so goal oriented. Of course. Yeah. Any. practices you developed to be able to stay in the moment? To be, yeah, to be able to appreciate just where you are at that time. 

Seb: Yeah. I mean, yeah. It's, it's always harder. I'm not, like, it's not something that you, that you have for granted once you've done it once.

Like, but of course, like the first time I [00:13:00] jumped on this, on this sailboat three years ago, it was definitely super hard just to, to accept, to accept that it's gonna take time. So I knew it would take time, but then once you're there, it's totally different. And, and I had this, the very same feeling here when we went back.

It was a even smaller boat. It was like, uh. 38 feet. So pretty small. And it was moving way more than the three, three other crossing I, we, we had. So it was, I, I would say it was even harder this time. Uh, and uh, the first two weeks I, I really struggled to accept like just, or, or to, to give up, you know, like just to, to let, let what you wanted go, like the goals, uh, the, the idea.

So that's, it's actually, yeah, when sail, [00:14:00] it's a bit like that you, or at least the experience I had, like, I'm not a big sailer at all. Like I, I just had this experience and it's, so the first, the first weeks you, you, you are like still. Thinking in a capitalist way. if I may say like, you wanna read that book, you wanna write this, this thing about your life.

You wanna, like, you wanna, and it's also some, like, it's still in a to-do list mode, you know? Or at least it's, at least it's what I, I did, you know, I'm always like, oh, I, I wanna enjoy the boat and being there to do this. And then, and then you realize that it's not possible because you're seasick. Because you don't want it, because you don't have the energy.

And, and at some point after two weeks this time, so it took me a, a while, I, I finally gave up on all this. And then, and then you can actually accept and slow down [00:15:00] and, and like enjoy the moment. But, um, yeah, it's pretty tough to enjoy the moment, or at least for me, like. I'm, I'm, I'm really goal oriented as a climber usually.

So yeah. Just being there and accept that you are there, it's, yeah, it's something that takes time 

Kush: for sure. You know, you set out on a very tough goal with your trip, and as climbers you are activated by big projects. Mm-hmm. And there's so much hard work that goes into those projects. Hard work, uncertainty, doubt, sometimes even risk.

But I'm, I'm guessing if you ask the typical climber, know what would be harder, the progression towards succeeding on a difficult project, or to be stuck on a boat for as long as eight months in total. [00:16:00] Most people will be like, give us the hardest project in the world. You know, course being stuck on a boat, uh, sep.

I want to talk about the Don Wall. Congratulations. A big one on succeeding on this thing this January. Are you okay if we talk about that for just a tiny bit? 

Seb: Of course. Yeah, of course. I'm happy to talk about it. 

Kush: Yes. Yes. So I wanna start at the beginning. So you have spent most of your climbing life likely closer to home around Europe.

Mm-hmm. And you have also made low impact travel such a priority in your life. I am curious why the dawn wall, it is far away. It is, yeah. It's got a lot of legacy, but [00:17:00] it, it is also famously hard. So what pulled you to that route, Seb? Why did you wanna do the ground wall? 

Seb: Yeah, yeah, that's true. It's maybe not the most obvious goal that you could think of as a Belgian climber, but on the other hand, I would say that, so first, first of all, I think I, I fell in love with, with Yosemite the first time I went there, uh, which was in 2016.

So a few years ago. I really liked the place El capita and the style of climbing. And I, I felt quite good at it as well. Like, I would say it suits my, my style quite, quite well. Um, I've, I've always been quite good in like technical small holds, slaby slash vertical kind of climbing. So. In, in that way. I, [00:18:00] I feel like Yosemite should suit my style pretty well.

And then, yeah, and there, I, I did, I did like a few climb in Yosemite where I, like I had to try quite hard and I was pretty proud ab about the effort I did. And I, at some point I was like, I really wanna set myself a big goal in Yosemite. And then, yeah, somehow I thought about the Don Wall and of course it was pretty far and I, I didn't expect all that could happen with setting that, that goal at the time.

but uh, yeah, I was, it is when, when I saw like the, like when I, I remember in 2015 when I, I saw Tommy and Kevin like topping out and I was like, oh, it was already a dream at the time, or at least. Really far dream, but still something that I had in mind. I was like, oh, that, that would be amazing. You know, just to, to be up there [00:19:00] and, and try hard on, on this route.

So yeah, step by step, it became a bit more than a dream, or at least it became a, a goal or a project. And yeah, and then the idea of, of going there like, or trying to go without in a different way, like, uh, crossing the Atlantic with a sailboat, which at the time I, I had no idea. Uh, what, what was it about?

Like, I had never sailed before. So somehow it was a really far quest, but, uh, also very exciting. yeah, maybe, maybe I'm someone as well who likes to, uh, to try impossible things or that seems impossible at first. And then try to, I think it's a really good feeling when you can achieve something that seems close to impossible before.

Um, 

Kush: [00:20:00] Seb, only a few people have climbed the dawn wall before you, it's, it's out of reach really for, for most everybody. Yes. It was a huge hold, but even the people who have done it before you and full kudos to the efforts, they did not spend eight months traveling a sailboat and also also traveling on land like you also did traveling in land because you adopted this values driven process,

and I'm trying to. Understand if there is a parallel arc between your style and this makeup project in Yosemite. So, so you did go to Yosemite before starting the project? Yeah. Yeah. And were those trips [00:21:00] also, were you flying conventionally to get to Yosemite from Europe when you first went there?

I was flying 

Seb: for, yeah. Yeah, I was flying for sure. So, so my story with, with Yosemite is like, I did a trip, a two month trip in 2016 where, uh, I did three trips before this project where I flew, I flew, um, so one in 2016, one in 17, one in 19. And then somehow, like in 2020, I, I don't know, I, I tried to, I. Like to change the way I was living.

I wanted to, to, yeah. I, I had this like kind of crazies where I lost sense in, in the climbing somehow, uh, because of all what's happening in the world. I was like, why can I just keep climbing like in a, in a selfish way [00:22:00] somehow? Like, I'm, I'm not saying that. Yeah. Where like, people are dying out there because of many kind of situation.

And I was like, I wanna, I want to take like radical decisions and, and I want, and that's where somehow I thought about like, not taking any, any more plane in my life, for the climbing and, and, and I'm not, I'm really not saying that it's what I'm gonna do my whole life. Like maybe like for whatever reason, I can, I can change my mind, but, uh, I wanted to, yeah.

To do, like, to do something in my own way. And that's, that's where the, um, this idea of like trying a different approach on a really different scale to go to sem d uh, arrived. So that's, that's where the idea come from. 

Kush: Somehow. I sense that our conversation is going to bounce a little bit between your lifestyle and your climbing.

So you [00:23:00] arrived at maybe this, um, maybe, maybe you were feeling a sense of confusion, anxiety between some of these, um, maybe dichotomies that exist even in climbing. You know, we, we, climbers, I think talk a big game about the environment, about protecting nature, but mm-hmm. I think we often have a, have a high impact lifestyle that we don't want to acknowledge.

You know, we are flying everywhere. Hell, I drive, uh, a gas guzzling van all over. We are eating high impact foods. 

Mm-hmm. 

Kush: And I suppose I should really ask you in a blunt way, uh, what values guide you today and is there like some kind of story with how you arrived at this? [00:24:00] What seems like, you know, a dramatic shift in lifestyle?

Seb: Yeah. I, no, I totally agree. I feel like, I mean, as human, I think we all have like a lot of contradictions and it's not always easy to face them. And I would say it's something I really try to do nowadays, like to just like really embrace those contradiction and, and, and try to, to be honest about myself, about, you know, not just indeed, like not just saying and environment and uh, like the ecological aspect of life is important.

Just like act on it as much as I can and yeah, try to

yeah, face all that and get informed and go deep in, into those topics like and in this social struggle, in the environmental struggle and try to, [00:25:00] to really connect and implement that in my climbing or at least, uh, as much as I can. 

Kush: is there maybe a broader cultural shift that might be happening, especially in, in Europe, around ethics, around social responsibility? Because, you know, when I think about my life in the us, nobody's stopping flying.

Like I, I, I cannot think of too many people who are like doing that kind of radical change in their lives. So is that maybe something around your environment or just. Something else? 

Seb: yeah, I think, I think there is a big difference like talking about the flying thing, uh, between Europe and, and the US somehow.

in Europe, I, I know many, many friend and people who really try to go less, uh, on planes and, and think really about that. for me personally, I had, I think I, I had [00:26:00] like many different steps in my, in the way I, I am, I'm today. be like from friends. I think it's mostly friends, like talking to people and like being, yeah, having debates with people and trying to, uh, nowadays I also like read a lot and, and listen to a lot of podcasts, so maybe that also helped me too.

to change or try. It's interesting, like the 

Kush: moment you go down that rabbit hole, you know, you sort, you start going more into those voices and the more you go into those voices, the more they start like, uh, shaping your thinking. So yes, it becomes like, yeah, it becomes unending. Like 

Seb: on, on, on the other hand, I don't wanna go like more radical and more radical all the time.

So I think like sometimes it's, it's not always nice to go like as pure as you can. Like there is a, a trap there where you, you also [00:27:00] try to think as in a capitalist way, again, like trying to be, like to reach goal in, in your activism. And I think that's not something you wanna do. Like, 'cause my idea is to go against like those kind of like goal target its thing and.

Try to escape this way of thinking in a way. Yeah. I don't know if you get me like 

Kush: my, my, I think I do. No, I, I think I do. Seb I am fascinated and I would love to hear more like what is that balance for you today in your life? 

Seb: It's, it's kind of hard to find a balance right now. It's, I'm still in, I would say I'm, I'm in, I'm always in a process where like I implement thing.

I think like I change others. And I would say that's the balance. [00:28:00] Try always to, to rethink what you thought was right or wrong. And I, I would say for example, that I was more radical about the, the flying three years ago than I'm right now. Even though I think I'm like right now. I. I'm way more into like, I really wanna do something into the, like the social injustice and what's happening in Palestine, for example.

I feel like that's the main battle. Even like talking about the environment. You can't talk about the environment when people are getting bumped. You know, like for me it makes no sense. Make, it makes no sense to, to say like, let's try to drive less when you see like a genocide happening, like not far, you know, like, or people are getting killed.

And that's, I think that's something, yeah, [00:29:00] or that you see that there is like still racism in France. Like, like the whole system is still really racist. So I think that's something, I want to fight more, in the next I. Month or year, or at least invest myself in those kind of struggles more than, for example, just the, the flying.

Even though I, I'm, you know, I'm still like, I still wanna act on, on the environment, and I think all these are linked 

Kush: Absolutely. I mean, it's, yeah, it's complex. It's complex and you're right, it's, I mean, having the right kind of prioritization is, is difficult because yes, you know, you, we don't want to get carried away by the small changes we make in our own life and forget what the big picture is and what's happening.

Seb: no, what I meant is like, I don't wanna blame someone who is not like, who is flying, for example, uh, to go climbing when. [00:30:00] Like there is a really bigger picture of like big companies, like killing the word or like Yeah, I think, I think I really wanna try, I, I wanna try to, to see like the more, more systemic view of all this and, and yeah.

Kush: here's something I've noticed. Your Instagram set, Belgian climber and pink tights. And that's true. Yeah. In your pictures, in your pictures, you have, you know, this, uh, let's say this, this light fun style, you also seem just such a positive person self, you seem optimistic and, and just, you know, just excited about possibilities.

And behind that, I also see somebody who's, you know, [00:31:00] committed and disciplined and obviously politically engaged. Do you sometimes think about that contrast is so there's humor on the surface, but are there also this heaviness. About trying to face these huge issues 

Seb: underneath. Yeah. Of, of course there are really heavy moments, I would say, uh, more and more I would say in my life or where I'm like, I'm becoming more and more interested and con uh, conscious in those kind of topics.

So I think it's, it's indeed quite heavy. But on the other hand, I, I think it's also nice to keep in mind like, uh, to bring joy to those struggles. So I've done, for example, um, like a few gathering over the, the, the past, uh, [00:32:00] years with, uh, some like big gathering, activist gathering where like there are like thousands of people trying to fight for same cause for example, we, we were like blocking those thing in France, like called Mega Bain, where.

Some really big industry stakeholder from like the, the small farmers for big, like, well we, we were struggling on, on, on, we were gathering on Disco coast. And, and those people were, were bringing, bringing so much joy, so much joy in the fight that it felt the right thing to do. You know, like just play music, smile loaf, and still fight.

Oh, wow. You know, and, and still still struggle on, like still go for it. I think you can, you can do both and I would say I was maybe a bit more optimistic before, for example, when I wrote [00:33:00] the, uh, the Belgian in climbing in, in pink tight, like Belgian climber in pink tight on my Instagram. I would say I was a bit more, uh, optimistic at the time, uh, than I am now.

But, uh. I think I, I, I, I still, I still should be as much as I can. Like we, we should be optimistic. We should, uh, we shouldn't lose hope and try, we should, uh, try to bring, uh, as much joy as we can in general.

Kush: Okay. I'm actually gonna ask a different question. So, you know, at at the summit of the dawn wall, you dedicated your ascent to the anti-fascist struggle.

And I'm gonna read a quote from you. I think you said Silence is complicity and resistance is a duty, and it's not something we see often in the climbing world. Mm-hmm. at this moment where you have achieved maybe this [00:34:00] huge milestone and then you dedicate your climb to this message. So what were you hoping for from that message and do you think it achieved some kind of impact that you were, uh, intending?

Yeah. 

Seb: So, first of all, I, I'm, I don't think I, I don't know if like it's those kind of message can, can make the difference, honestly. I don't know. I, I am not sure. I think some people get it and that can make an influence on their self. Like they can say, oh, I, you know, like when I, when I was like a kid and like I was looking at other climbers, like, um, professional climbers, I was always like, I was very influenced by, by what, by what they said [00:35:00] in life in general.

So I would, I would think that if I write that on a social media and there is like, I don't know, like 20,000 of people seeing it, maybe a few of them like, like, must be influenced somehow. And maybe that can make a really, really small difference. But I think it's, it's still a drop in the ocean for sure.

On the other hand. So that's like, maybe there is not much result. On the other hand, I think somehow I, it felt necessary to me to do something. You know, I think, I believe that when you have a platform as I have, like, even though it's not a big platform, like I still have like something, I still have people reading what I write and listening what I say, you know, I still have people.

So I think it's a, like, as I wrote, I think it's a duty when you have a platform like that to express those kind of things. [00:36:00] Especially nowadays where there is a really, uh, there is a real war on the social media. there is something happening there, like a war of id. and that's why I think people who have a platform nowadays on social media should use, should use it for, for, um, their IDs.

I think that's something you should do. And, and when I write, like silence is complicity. It's a bit linked, linked to this where we know, we all see on social media that like people are dying. That, uh, we, we know right now that, global warming and climate change is going to like, probably destroy the whole life on earth.

we can all watch like documentaries anywhere talking about that and, and. Yeah, I think, I think we should [00:37:00] say something and that's why, that's why I, I did it. And yeah. Even, even though that makes no difference, I think we should do it somehow, or at least to me, I would, I would feel bad just talking about my climbing and only this and going further about it.

For example, on social media right now, I, you know, I feel ashamed just talking about climbing. It doesn't feel right to me. Like just making a post about just climbing or when, when I see all this around doesn't feel so much right. Or at least it feels like, what's the word in English? It feels like you are hiding.

Like, or, or you, you create, you create some diversion. Version, is it word like Yes, yes, yes. Yeah. which means that you're gonna talk more, [00:38:00] uh, like people is are gonna talk more about your climbing and not think about what's really matter Yeah. That's why, that's why I think, I think I'm, I'm gonna keep going, like, in doing this, I, I wanna, I wanna share more of this.

And even though I, I feel, uh, to me, social media feels always a bit awkward. I'm, I'm struggling with this a, a bit like, yeah. I, I, I, I'm struggling to find a balance between like what I wanna share in terms of pure climbing and pure joy, and just like the activists, the, the activist me, you know? 

Kush: Yeah. Well, social media is a struggle, I think for most of us.

It's such a weird, of course, place. Of course it's a tool that is powerful, but it is also a tool that we don't necessarily love. 

Seb: Of course. Yeah. Yeah. [00:39:00] And, and we are, we are most mostly the tool for the social media. Yeah. So that's something you for sure keep mind as well, you know? Yes, yes, yes, yes.

We, we don't, we don't have so much, de power there, or at least 

Yeah, 

Kush: I agree. I agree. But maybe there are smart ways with we, we don't, maybe there's smart ways, you know, which, which one can tease out the best of the algorithm. Right. Because if you make a big, powerful st stand and the algorithm sees that, the powerful image or the powerful.

Words are catching on, people are liking engaging, then that is maybe one way to quote unquote manipulate the big powers in some way to be, to be with you. Seth, going back to the dawn wall, so so three ocean crossings. At any point did you ever regret taking on this project? I mean, you can sense of some people who are just flying to do a, a big project.

You know, [00:40:00] people are flying to the US or just driving to the nearby crack, you know, two hours away and they take on something big and here you are sitting in a boat maybe getting seasick and learn, learning to be comfortable with yourself. 

Seb: When you're CCC you always regret, like, or when I'm Cs, like properly Cs, and you like, it's so bad that you.

Of course you regret, you're like, what the fuck am I doing here? Like, you know, I should, I could be, I could be there already or I could be back home or I could No, no. You regret for sure

Kush: sometimes. And are you a natural sailor? Did you like, grow up sailing? Did this come like easily for you? Not 

Seb: at all. Not at all. I've, I, I never sailed before, before the project in 2020. So I, like, basically the first sailing experience I had was, uh, was like [00:41:00] when we started sailing from, from France to go to, to, to the US basically.

Kush: Wow. I mean, that is nuts. Like you are, I guess you're preparing for two very intense goals. You know, you're preparing for this climbing, which you know, but it is still a big goal. At the same time you are having to teach yourself. Like these skills? Yeah. Like how, how did, how did you find a crew and like how did you break this thing down into like, manageable pieces to be able to figure out like how sail get a boat and then, yeah.

So, 

Seb: so the first time three years ago, we actually, we had a boat from a friend. We were eight people, like doing the whole trip together, and trying to figure out everything. One of my friend was a really good sailor and so he [00:42:00] took, uh, and, and his girlfriend as well. So they took, uh, the, the whole sail responsibility where this time, so the second trip, we actually, we basically each hiked the boots.

you, you can go on on like there, there are many website on internet that's like that where people can, can say, I have this boat. I'm gonna cross there because blah, blah, blah. And, and I'm searching for people, like, I'm looking for people for a crew to help for the night watch or something. And you go on this website and you write your story and, and hope that they're gonna accept.

So that's what we did for the both Crossing this time. 

Kush: I, I, I have seen those kinds of websites as well. Um, yeah, I mean, I haven't been inspired to join them. Maybe I need a big goal at the other end. 

Yeah. Yeah. [00:43:00] 

Kush: Another thing that I think people would be curious about is, people take.

Preparation for like a big auto project, quite, quite, quite se, seriously, right? Like there's this mm-hmm. I'm sure you also had like a plan. I mean, you were like a, I think a, a competition climber, I think at some point in your life. So you are mm-hmm. Accustomed to having like, you know, a, a big program, but in the middle of that program right before you, you get to the, you spend a couple of months in a boat, you know, with all kinds of uncertainties.

How did you manage to not lose all your conditioning before you got to, 

Seb: of course there was, I was, uh, the big unknown before the whole, the whole thing. Uh, it was the big challenge we had. We, I mean, I, we had never heard about anyone crossing the Atlantic [00:44:00] and properly training. So, so, you know, like I have a, a few.

A few friends in Belgium, like the very famous, uh, Eva, uh, Nicola Ez, uh, who had done some like climbing sailing expedition before, but they were not training properly, or at least, uh, not the way I wanted to, to train. So yeah, that was, that was a big, a big unknown. And at, at the end, we figured it out, even though it wasn't, it's not as good as the training you can do on, on land for sure.

But, um, we figured out some way to, to do it properly still. So we basically, the idea was we brought so many sheets for training on the boats the first time. Uh, like spray walls, boards, bands, weights, even a piece of rock [00:45:00] for the skin. Uh, so that was the first time, this second time. On the first crossing.

So from, from uh, France to, um, to America, we, we still had a lot of things and, and I think we did really well. Like, uh, we had, we were quite lucky, was quite a, really a big, so it wasn't, it wasn't moving so much and, and yeah, well, we, I think we managed pretty well to, to train quite hard, to be honest. I, when I arrived, um, in am in America, in the us I felt in a really good shape.

Like, wow. Wow. Yeah. I think somehow this challenge motivates me so much. You know, like the fact that you are on the boat and you, you want to be strong or like train for a big goal is, [00:46:00] is like. It is motivating, it's maybe more motivating than just being in the, in the home routine, for example, where you would like do what you do usually there you be, you need to be creative and you need to put up some, some work to do it.

So that, I think that was somehow positive experience, even though for sure it's a bigger challenge. Yeah. Than, than 

Kush: just before. Yeah, no doubt. No doubt. I mean, if the dawn wall gets like the, the nine A grade, I mean, you, you put like a, I don't know, nine B effort, maybe harder to 

nine 

Kush: C effort. I don't know.

Seb: Unfortunately, climbing doesn't work like that. Yeah, I know. I know. You're great. I know, I know.

Kush: What changed between your successive ocean crossings? , You, you likely became a better sailor with each trip. You learned a lot about, and then you also [00:47:00] became better at the climbing training on the boat. 

Yeah, of course. Yeah. So 

Kush: can you be maybe a bit more specific on like how you trained differently and in a better way?

Seb: Yeah, yeah. basically I think the, the first thing, which is quite important, and, and that's something I learned over, over the selling, uh, the time on, on, on the sailboat is that. When you, when you don't wanna do it, you shouldn't try too hard. 'cause like one, one aspect of being seasick or at least feeling the sickness yeah, it's hard to do whatever, like just standing up is, can be really hard.

And again, I think it's to accept that you can't follow a really precise plan and to be just indulgent about yourself. Accept, accept it. On the other hand, having a plan is still a good idea, otherwise you fall into [00:48:00] this rabbit hole of like, just laying on your bed and, and not moving at all. So like, having goals and having a plan is still an idea, but it, you need to accept that it's, it won't be.

Uh, like you, you won't be able to follow it per perfectly. So that's, that's the first thing. On the other hand, I think, um, so we, we found out ways to get really strong on fingers and like to, to like train physically without, without doing some proper climbing. So the idea was to use like a lot of like, hanging, hanging boards.

Um, a lot of like isometric exercises. Uh, 'cause obviously you can't do so much movements. So we, we were doing a lot of isometric, uh, contractions. and also you like, another thing which was quite [00:49:00] interesting is to play with the movement of the boat, like. You know, depending, oh wow. On the situation, depending on the situation, you find, you find an exercise, for example, on, on the first boat we had three years ago, um, depending on, so we, we had this small spray wall inside the boat on, on a room, like on the bedroom.

And depending on how the boat was, like tilting. So, you know, sometimes it's s tilting on the, in the side and on the other, like, and sometimes it can be the whole way around. Um, and depending on that, I had different boulders. I, I had different exercise 'cause sometimes it was really easy and sometimes it was really hard.

And that's also something with the boat you can't really measure. It's quite hard to measure whether you're strong or not. 'cause sometimes you feel really strong on the hang board. Sometimes [00:50:00] because it's moving more, you can't do the same thing you you did just the day before. And yeah, accepting it, this as well is, is accepting that you won't be able to measure how, how in a good shape you are is something important, I would say.

Yeah. 

Seb: And then you, yeah. And then, oh, something which was really, uh, really nice to me as well, I think is maybe when I am in a, in a training routine at, at home, I'm maybe doing too much too. Like I'm training maybe too much and being on a boat I could really focus on like pure strength and power and like do something really intense for a short amount of time.

'cause you obviously you can't do like five hour session or something. You, you like, basically we were doing maybe an hour in the morning, an hour in the afternoon, and that's, that's what you can do. Like, it's, it's quite hard to do more than that. [00:51:00] So you try to go like really efficient and intense on whatever ex exercise you're doing.

And that's maybe what I needed the most. Like gets really strong and like go, go intense on the, on the strength and power

Kush: you were facing. A training situation, very few climbers will ever face. I mean, we, we, it's compared to many other, it's for anyone 

Seb: won't be useful for anyone. 

Kush: Those kind of topics. I mean, I always like to think that out of many outdoor sports climbing has that one element, which is unlike the, unlike surfing or snowboarding or, or cycling, like the, the, the mountain doesn't move.

And you are in a situation where the mountain is moving, like, yeah, yeah, 

Seb: yeah, yeah. That's, that's that somehow, that's, that's interesting [00:52:00] as well. I think for like the joint and the muscle, it's, it can be a really good exercise. Maybe like, you know, a moving hang board would be really interesting for people in the future.

I mean, bit stronger. 

Kush: Yeah. I mean, actually, so you talked about, yeah, you talked about that, and you talked about maybe in some ways like the forced rest, right? Because you were, your training sessions could not be as intense, and maybe you were also like mentally dis distracted, you know, because you were learning like this new activity, you were learning to live in a boat Do you think they actually helped you, uh, prepare for the dawn wall in a, in a funny way because you came with this like, unusual approach? 

Seb: Yeah. Of, of like, obviously it's quite hard to say, like, it's quite hard to tell whether I would be more prepared if I would've come by plane. Like it's impossible. We, we would never know.

But I like to believe that, uh, [00:53:00] going in, in this way, like get me more, got me more psyched in working hard, even harder and also like puts me outta my usual routine. And yeah, I like to think that, uh, maybe it helped, but maybe that's completely foolish or.

Kush: Isn't it like what you believe, you know, what you believe kind of becomes 

Seb: Yeah. The thing, yeah. Yeah. The 

Kush: reality. For sure. Let's say, so let's, let's talk about belief. I wanna take us into the climb itself and Yeah. So when you were writing about clients, um, you know, they had these crux pitches, right, which are harder than the others.

And I think it was, is it pitch 14, which is the, the [00:54:00] crux pitch? Mm-hmm. And I think you had multiple attempts and you also spoke about back pain. You talk, talked about like, like total fatigue and, and you managed to send it. Can you talk about like what went on that day? In your words, how deep did you have to dig?

Seb: Yeah, true. I like, I have a, a nice story with, uh, pitch 14, or at least we can say it's nice since I, I finally send it. But, uh, um, so yeah, basically the first trip I worked, we worked with my friend Ban. Um, we worked for two month on the whole downward route. And then I did, like, I did give, uh, like a push attempt, um, of [00:55:00] 23 days.

And I got shut, like I got stopped by, by by pitch 14. And I think I spent two weeks trying to send pitch 14 on that push, which was quite a long time working on a single pitch at five, like at, uh, 1000 feet high or one, one, uh, one 500 th uh, like, yeah, pretty high on the wall, like hanging on Portage. So.

Yeah. Uh, when I came back this year, I, my main focus was on, was on pitch 14. I directly went, went on it, and I, I think I gave a lot of thinking and energy on this pitch, especially on the, on, like, 

Kush: on this kind of climbing. Quick question. So in your prior attempt, did you send everything but that pitch, but that one pitch that got away or, uh, so 

Seb: I, I, I sent everything up to that pitch and then like, on, on, you know, on the working [00:56:00] process, you don't really send the pitch.

You, you just work out the sections and maybe you, my idea was maybe to send, like, to send the sections between rest. But no, like, you don't really give tries or at least I don't like, or I didn't, so, so I, I, uh, I hadn't sent page 15, 16, 17 up to the summit, but I had sent up to there and yeah, so this time I, I like the main focus was, was on pitch 14.

Even though you need to practice everything, you need to remember everything. 'cause any any goal, like any attempt, you're gonna lose on any pitch because you're not died or anything could cost you the whole, the send of the whole route. I'm sure of it. 'cause for example, if on your first day somehow you, you, you fail on the last crux of [00:57:00] Peach Tree, which, which is like five 13 CD or something.

If you fail there and then you. It's too late to give another go, and maybe you give another go. You open your tip, maybe you can be done for the whole push. You know, it's really, I, I believe it's like an addition of really small thing that can make you fail or succeed, uh, in big goal climbing that's like really important to take into account that even the, the, the easier pitches needs to be like perfect almost.

So, especially with the dumb hole. And so, yeah, I was wor I was focusing a lot on pitch 14 and trying to focus on everything else, which, which cost you a lot of time and, and energy of course, but yeah. What's, and then so, uh, when, when I come back, when I came back this year, I was, uh, climbing with Conor Harrison most of the time.[00:58:00] 

And I think we did the, so we worked on the route for a month or something. I think I had 15 session on the route itself. Uh, 15 days of climbing and over a month. And, and then I give, I give like the final push attempt in January about the 15th of January. And I arrived pretty fast and fresh on pitch 14.

So I was pretty confident as well because during the process with Conor, I, I had really good feeling at the end. I think I, I found out what shoes I needed. I found out like the perfect beta. I was really dialed on, like the body positioning. Um, and yeah, like the day I sent it was, so it was the second day trying the, the pitch during that push.

So the first day I tried, I failed three times on [00:59:00] the very last move, I was really close. Uh, but I still didn't manage to do it that day. Um, and then on my second day on the pitch, it, it's quite funny 'cause uh, that day I, I, I fell a lot of time on CRS one and CRS two. So there, there are three cruxes on the pitch.

Uh, three Boulder problems separate with bike. Okay. Rest. And I couldn't get back to the point where, where I went the day before. I was like, struggling so much in the first cruxes. And at some point I, I was like, oh, that this is it. Like, no, I'm like falling on the first, first hard moves. I want be able to get back up to the last corrects.

And I think I gave nine or 10 tries that day. Like the whole day we woke up at five, 5:00 AM in the morning. I climbed like as [01:00:00] hard as I could, like the whole morning. And then I. And then that day they were like, they were forecasting some snow late in the afternoon around 5:00 PM or something. And I remember about four in the afternoon, I was, I was like almost accepting failure, almost like, oh, this is it, it's going, it's gonna snow.

And then, and then I had also a really quite a short window before, like a big storm coming in, so I was like, Hmm, maybe not this time. You know, I, I, I have to go to maybe try again in March. And then I gave, I gave this try where like, I wasn't especially feeling really good. I was feeling, feeling quite bad, to be honest.

But I still, like, I still made it past CRS one. And then like, I, I, I fought past CRS two and I was on this like jug. Before Crux Tree where I, I'd [01:01:00] like failed a few times before and, and it actually started snowing. It was kind of a crazy moment, you know, like not heavy snow, but still, like, still some, some proper snowing.

Um, and somehow maybe it's again, like maybe it helped releasing the pressure or like ma making something different and somehow I, I made it through, through CS Tree and send the pitch, um, despite the snow, like falling on us. So that was, that was like such a, such an intense and big feeling. Uh, it's, it's, it's actually quite hard to remember exactly how I climbed, uh, this last track.

You know, it's, you are in a mode where you don't think or. Yeah, you don't, you can't really remember those like really big moments. But yeah, it was intense and [01:02:00] I don't know what really make the difference. I'm sure on the first session, like this push, like the on, on the, the, like the success push. I think I was really stressed by this, this move and I wasn't relaxed enough to, to make it happen.

Sure, 

yeah. 

Seb: Yeah. For, for this kind of climbing, you really need a, like a spec like specific, uh, state of mind, which, which can be quite hard to have. You need to be really calm and really focused at the same time. That's, that's quite, yeah. 

Kush: Do you think that you dug deeper in that moment as you were. Past getting fast.

The cruxes than you had ever before Seb? [01:03:00] 

Seb: Yeah. Yeah. Maybe if it's, again, it's quite hard to tell. I think, you know, like in climbing weather, like you succeed or fail, it can be such a small detail, especially in this kind of really technical, on the feet climbing, sometimes it's really a matter of like one millimeter, how you place your feet, how you trust it.

It's can be, so yeah, it's, it's pretty different than like some hover overhang climbing where you like, yeah. The, like, the difference is just on like how strong you are on, on the fingers there. It's, it's really about like details in the positioning of your body and how you trust it, so, and. So I don't know if I, if I really dig deeper, deeper, what I know is that I was probably, you know, [01:04:00] on that this try also because it was the last try of the day because I had nothing to lose anymore.

You know? So I think it released some pressure and, and that's what you probably need for, uh, for sending, on the first go of, of the day when you know you're capable of sending it and you should send it, then yeah, then you, you feel so much pressure. That's where. 

Kush: Yeah, it doesn't happen. And, and you know, it's not just about, of course it's not just, yeah, of course this, this is a different climb than a single pitch sport or boulder problem.

But this is also a climb that's taking place in the middle of like the most famous big wall. You spend multiple days on the wall already, you're exhausted every which way. Not to mention if you don't succeed, there is, yeah. You might have to come back again. So, 

[01:05:00] yeah. Yeah. 

Kush: I can't imagine the pressure, but at some point you were able to release that pressure set, which I think is just so extra ordinary.

Yeah. Maybe I wanna, actually, I wanna actually talk about this for a second. Um, so initially when you were preparing for this climb. This trip you were working with Connor? Actually, uh, did Connor also come close to sending the climb? 

Seb: Uh, no. Uh, Connor didn't, didn't give a, like, he didn't give a push this year.

so we just did the working process together and I think so, I think he, he, he needed more time to, before giving a push. and also he had to go back to school from January on, I hope he's gonna go back on it, uh, next fall. And I think so, [01:06:00] but I don't want to speak. 

Kush: Yeah. JJ said, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Good luck. I'm good luck to you, Connor. 

Seb: Yeah, yeah, I'm, I'm sure he's motivated and it is like obviously super strong and I. A crazy talented climber, and so I'm, I'm sure he is gonna do the down hall one day pretty soon. That's what I can say, but I'm like, I don't know. It, it still needs to, to try hard though, like Sure, of course, 

Kush: of course.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. The other kind of partnership, which I think is so important, but I think, I think gets overlooked in the world of climbing. I mean, I feel like for me, the partnerships are the most important part of a big climbing trip or a climbing project, or just my identity as a climber. Especially now on something like your project, you have [01:07:00] somebody with you who's supporting you, and I believe your partners was Celine, Yeah. She wasn't just your Blair, you know, she was this, this total committed equal with you. I mean Oh yeah. Yeah. She was hauling your gear. She was encouraging you through, I'm guessing the toughest moments. I believe she was even warming your shoes as you were getting buffeted by the storm. What did it was?

It was not the. 

Seb: It was the, the toes. The feet. Oh, wow. Yeah. It was even more than that. Yeah. No, no, of course. Yeah. I mean, of course Celine was a really big part of, of, of the sending push and like, of this project, of the whole project as well. 'cause she also [01:08:00] did the fourth, uh, like the four, uh, transatlantic crossings.

Uh, she also spent like 20 months in total doing this project. She had her, uh, her, her own goals for sure. But she, she still was a really big, big, big support, uh, for the climb. And, and I think we both had like a really intense moment up there. Um, yeah, being, being a belayer and being someone like with supporting is also really not easy.

Like you get really stressed as well. She was like, yeah, I mean, she spent. Whole days up there, it was really cold, not doing anything just on a really small portal edge hanging and trying to stay positive where I wasn't always like, you know when, when you keep failing the whole day on the pitch and you're like, oh, maybe this is it.

I also struggle with some [01:09:00] back pain. And, and, and at some point I wasn't, I wasn't positive anymore. And she, she stayed really positive and she always, I don't know. She, she's a really strong person in a way that it feels like nothing is gonna touch her. Like she on, on this climb. She wasn't, she was so positive the whole time.

She was smiling, making jokes where I was obviously really stressed out and I think she was for sure the key of, of, uh, my. My climbing success there. Um, and yeah, like at some point we find we, we found the strategy of like, so I, I couldn't feel my feet and my toes when I was climbing because it was too cold and my shoes were too tight.

And so the strategy we found out after the second day, I think was me putting my toes [01:10:00] and my feet against like hand her her liars against her belly. And like, that was the way, like, you know, that was the way we could, like, I could have my feet warm enough to give a go. So between, between my go and my toes, like in there for an hour almost, you know, and I don't know if you already put, uh, someone's feet like against your skin when they're frozen, but that's a big commitment, you know?

Kush: Yeah, no, you have, you and Celine have raised bar for support. Like, unless you have snuggled. Somebody else's toes against your belly in a freezing snowstorm. Like yeah, yeah. It was, it was freezing. Yeah.

Seb: That, you know, that's the final step of support, I would say, under that. Under that, I wouldn't call it support, maybe,

Kush: this partnership angle is so, [01:11:00] so fascinating. I am curious, like any, any type of strategies that you and Celine have developed to be there for each other to support each other. What have you figured out works or doesn't work through these months and months of ocean crossing through days spent on a wall and through all kinds of other struggles.

I'm sure there are people listening who are struggling through, you know, more mundane relationship issues. So is there something we can learn from you?

Seb: I don't know. Yeah, no, of course. It's, it's something, I think we have, um, yeah. What, what's the secret? I don't know. I'm not sure. I think we communicated. I know 

Kush: it. I know it is. I know it is beyond just bringing your favorite snacks 

Seb: to touch. Yeah. Yeah. It's 

Kush: more than that. 

Seb: Yeah, [01:12:00] of course. I think we have a, like, we have a really good friendship and we told like, you know, like, uh, aside, like being a couple, like in a romantic couple, I think we have a really good friendship as well.

Like we are really good friends. We like to, to friend, uh, and we communicate a lot. Um, and that's something we're still learning. and also I think we've learned to yeah, give space to the other and still being supportive, which, which is something which is not always easy in relationship, like in a romantic relationship to like, you know, to give space to someone and still being there in supports.

I think that's the whole key of like somehow like successful relationship. I don't know, I'm not Dr. Love, but I, I,[01:13:00] 

I would say yeah, like communication is for sure one, one of the big key. Yeah. Okay. And also being psyched, you know, and she was super psyched and super, like she's a passionate climber and that's something we, I. We are lucky to have found someone who has like the same passion in life and same kind of interest and like way of thinking.

Um, so I think she, she also had fun up there like seeing me climb and I'm, you know, when I'm with her up there and when, like when I'm supporting her, I'm like always, I have as much, uh, tension in me than I'm, than I have when I'm climbing myself. Or at least it feels like as good as I am as when I'm climbing myself.

You know, like as you can like really live some really strong, you can have some really strong [01:14:00] feelings by just being there, supporting. And that's also something I think important. If you, if if she wasn't or if I wasn't happy to be up there and supporting, I don't think it would work. I think that's something you need to find the like interest.

Intra motivational of being there. 

Yeah. 

Kush: Seb, you said a few things. All of them are actually, I think all of them are actually so valid. You talked about shared interests, you talked about communication, you talked about being a friend, but then the last one I think is so important. You talked about being just a psyched for Yeah, yeah.

Your, your partner's goals as they are for their own goal. And I'm sensing, I'm sensing Celine had some of that psych for your success. I'm sure she was thinking in her mind that, you know, we'll have to come back by boat again if he [01:15:00] doesn't do it. But beyond. But beyond that, beyond that, you know, she was just so bought in at a personal level, at the shared.

And, sorry, I know this is not a therapy podcast, but I, I mean, this is, this is like, this is the magic right there, which is you have to just be, just as, you have to support not for, not just for them, but for yourself because you get those, those energetic sensations when you see your partners succeed. You also have this, you know, this strong

sense of value set and the lifestyle you've adopted. I wonder if there are any, creative tensions around. Being able to also have it because you can't have everything single [01:16:00] thing like aligned in a relationship. So are there like some ways you, you have built compassion for each other where maybe there are things that you don't align on, but you just support each other?

Seb: Mm, yeah. of course, I think, having compassion for like what you don't align with in a, in a couple or in a relationship is, is key for sure. hmm. we do have like, we, we are aligned on, on a lot of things. That's big luck we have as well. Um, so I don't know. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. If 

Kush: there 

Seb: is something special there, 

Kush: you , 

Seb: um, just some final questions, Seth, before we end. Yeah. what's one small habit or maybe a daily practice that's improved your life lately? Uh.

Let me think. you know, I, I think I, I went, [01:17:00] I went back to reading when, I mean, going back to reading is I used to read a lot and then I had a smartphone and I stopped reading. And nowadays I really try to get back at it. Like, and I think that's also something getting back to the ceiling. Which wa which wa what is like, uh, like getting back to the ceiling.

I think, uh, it also. Brought me back to, to this like just taking time away from the social media or the, the smartphone, which is made to, which is made to get you addicted to it. So, you know, I, I had a, I had a smartphone pretty late in my life. I think it was, uh, my first smartphone was in 2019 or 20 or something, but I Oh wow.

I got, yeah, so I was pretty proud about it and I think I was always like. I want to [01:18:00] like live my life without it. 'cause I, I can see that you guys spend so much time on it and I was proud about this decision. And then I got one because I had two for work, like, uh, for the work I was doing at the time. And then, and then I got elected and now I can't get away from it.

So, so I think that's something in my life. It's really not linked to the climbing, but that's something I want to do more as well. And, and that make me happy is just. For example, this afternoon I just went, as I said, running in the mountains and I, you know, I just left my phone down there. I didn't bring it with me and, 'cause I, I feel like even when you go climbing on or when you go running or we, when you go mountaineering, we still have this thing that in our pocket and we still want.

We, and, and maybe it's, it's a good thing to have. We, we use it for picture, we use it for music, we use it for like, whatever, and I'm not criticizing this, but it feels so good just to [01:19:00] not have it. And like not, not having the possibility to take a picture and just look with your own eyes. And that's a good thing, I think.

Yeah. Did you have internet while you were on the boat? No. No. No. Ah, and that, that was, that was so good. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I'm sure it must have been there. There are many boats who have like, which have, uh, stunning and uh, and like an iridium or something. We had some way of communicating with Iridium, which is like.

You can have like a few messages and, but um, yeah, we were not using it so much just for like downloading like every three days you can download like a weather forecast, but that's it. And maybe let your, uh, family know that you are surviving. You haven't gotten eaten by sharks. Exactly. But on the other hand, it's also good to, uh, I, I know my mother can be quite [01:20:00] stressed out when I'm out there and.

I try to get her used to me not giving any news and, and, and, you know, and that's not bad. Like no news, good news, you know, like that's, that's what I'm trying to, but, but also she was really happy to have a few messages this time when we were on the, on the ocean. Yes, yes, yes. That's great. You actually shared two different.

Habits. Um, they're linked. One is the first one, which is reading books more. Yeah. Yeah. But then the second one maybe they are linked. Huh? They are linked to me. Yeah. But yeah, no, a hundred percent. You know, I used to, I use the Kindle. Yeah. Yeah. I, I have the most base, so, okay. So the Kindle makes it easy to read books over physical books, but I got the most basic version of the Kindle.

Yeah, because it does not browse, uh, the internet [01:21:00] and you cannot do anything on it, which I think has been saving my leading habit, except any surprising routines. Um, um, morning or evening routines or like while you're traveling that kind of keep you grounded? Hmm. I don't have so much routine, I think in my life, like the way, the way I had my, I live my life recently like is not really easy to build routines even though, yeah.

I think what's like the biggest routine I have is like probably cooking and eating, like, which I tried like of course as everyone like to do. At the same time of the day, like more or less every day. yeah, that's, that's I think something quite important, which regulates my day for sure in general. But, uh, sure.

Any specific routine? I'm not sure. [01:22:00] Like, I'm stretching quite a lot. I, I like to do like some stretching session and yoga sessions, uh, at least once a day. But again, I don't always find the time for that. Like, you know, like take an hour to, to do that is is fucking hard. Yeah. Yes, yes. Absolutely. But I think that's, I think that's also another thing that not having a phone with you helps because, oh, of course.

It's just so easy to sit down with your phone and like. Kill like an hour, where if you don't have that phone, then you're forced, you're forced to be more creative with, uh, talking about food. You know, I'm curious, let's say, okay, here's a fun question. What is one meal that you could eat every day? And I'm, I'm guessing it is not oatmeal with water, but maybe I'm wrong.

No, no, you're right. You're right. Uh, what is it? [01:23:00] I I should maybe answer, uh, like be fries because like that's, that's the pro proud meat meal we have there, and we like to make joke about it like that we eat fries every day. Uh, and that's what makes us, uh, strong. But, uh, it would be a lie then I would say.

Yeah, I don't know. Like I could, I think I could eat pasta with like vegetables every day. Like I could. Sure. Yeah. I'm, I'm, I'm vegetarian. Like I've been vegetarian for the past 13 years or something, uh, quite a long time. And now I'm trying to be vegan or like eat less like milk related products and maybe a bit less eggs as well.

But I still do. And, but still, yeah, I. Yeah, pasta with like good vegetable sauce and some Parmesan cheese on it, I think could, could make [01:24:00] my day every day for the rest of my life. Sure, sure, sure. That's, that sounds delicious. And actually I'm exactly in the same boat because I've been vegetarian for a long time and there are some things which to give up in my case, like giving up eggs seems a little bit challenging.

I. When you were on this wall, or maybe even on the boat, or you know, away from like creature comforts, how did you make sure you were getting the right nutrition to be able to perform at that high level? yeah, it's not always, I do eat a lot in general. So I think comp, like in compared to the average like population, I, I probably eat more.

And yeah, I mean I, I focus a lot on proteins, of course, like, uh, [01:25:00] lentils, chickpeas. So yeah, like those kind of proteins. I do eat eggs as well, uh, and sometimes cheese. But yeah, I, I have no, like in trips like that, like on the boat or on the wall, like I'm not really calculating anything or I just try to do my best what with what I have, which is not already for sure.

But yeah, I think somehow I, we manage, or at least I, yeah, yeah, for sure. Did you take maybe. Some supplements with you on the wall to add to the, maybe the, the freeze dried meals or the pasta or the canned canned lentils? Yeah. On the wall. I, I definitely had some like, like powder proteins with me, uh, to add to meals.

'cause usually, like I had a lot of dry meals. [01:26:00] Which are not always like, first they're not big enough or not always protein enough. They like, I had some really good ones, but not enough. Of course. Yeah. And so, yeah, I brought, to be honest on, on that push, I brought so much food, like so much good food that I wanted to eat.

'cause one thing is when you get back of a really stressful day, uh uh, like in the cold. It's not always easy to eat correctly and eat enough. So I, I really like try to bring as much as I could, um, as much thing that I like as I could. yeah, many, many thing to add to the meals. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And may you probably learned over time as well over successive.

Successive of time, successive trips to Yosemite, different big walls you've climbed. Yeah. And then you were able to dial in your, um, your [01:27:00] diet a bit better. Steph, here's a fun question. You know, you, lead and intentionally, uh, can I say minimalist lifestyle? You know, you are not out there trying to, at least you, you're trying to.

Not, I'm trying Yeah. Be a big capitalist, right? Like we spoke about earlier. Yeah, of course. Yeah, of course. Yeah. That's, that's having, yeah. Having said that, what might have been the best use of, let's say a hundred Euros or, or maybe since you were in the US maybe, maybe a hundred dollars in recent memory, what was the best use of a hundred dollars?

Hmm. Uh, a similar amount? You mean that I, I, that I made like, uh, like an expense expenses? No, like, you know, you spent, yeah. You spent maybe something around a hundred dollars and that gave you the most joy. [01:28:00] I mean, I would say still, like, when, when I pay a restaurant for many friends and like, or you know, like.

Let's go eat after a good climbing session altogether and like a hundred dollars. That's, that's nice. It's a good way to, to use it, I think. Was it maybe after you sent the Don Wall, did you go out and get a good meal? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We, we, we had some good meals. Yeah. We also had, uh, you know, like, um, in, in the valley there is the ha Ani hotel and like they are doing the breakfasts.

Yeah, the buffet. The, the all you can eat buffet breakfast and like we, we had that after the normal with few friends. That was, that was perfect that, uh, and we also had, like, we, we booked a, we booked a room. It's funny 'cause my, like my father is a big, like, is like, uh, has been a climber all his life and obviously was following.

My climbing a [01:29:00] lot when I was on the dong wall and when I, when I submitted, I, like, I wrote him a text, and he was so, he was really psyched. And then he wrote, go, go take a room in a good hotel, or not a good, but in a hotel for the next two days and I'm paying it. Yeah. And like, and it was actually. I don't think we would've gone in a hotel if he didn't say that we would've stayed in the rest van we had in the valley.

But like he was insisting so much that we went and that was really good. We, we were like, uh, we were, uh, three friends there and it was super fun. Seb, how long was the first shower after you got down from the wall? So, so the funny thing is, so we went to this hotel, which is like, it's Deb Bug, you know, like outside of the valley there is this spa and they have rooms as well.

So we went there [01:30:00] and we entered the room and I tried to take a shower. That was the thir the first thing I wanted to do. And. There were like the, the water wasn't getting hot, like it was thing cold the whole time. And I, I, I waited for like 10, 15 minutes and I was like, oh no, it won't happen. And like I went to the reception ask, asking like, what's, what's happening?

And then, and actually they tried to fix it for the next three hours or something. So I didn't, I didn't get my, my, my shower that day actually. Oh. I had to wait for, I spent the night and then in the morning I spent quite some time in the shower. Oh, wow. Well, looks like you did not give into the cold shower.

You wanted it so bad you slept. I could, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I couldn't, like, it was really cold and I, I. I was really cold as well, so it was, was, uh, 1st [01:31:00] of February in the valley. A storm coming in. You don't wanna take a cold shower, but maybe I did. I still did something that night. Maybe at, maybe at the end we went to the, like, to the spa or something.

I, I'm not sure. The next day we went for sure, and that day. I, I think I went to sleep 'cause uh, we, we didn't sleep at all the last, the night before, so I think I just went to sleep, which was quite, quite important as well. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Uh, just a final question here, which is, you know, we will put links to your Instagram on the show notes, but is there any other platform or.

Um, maybe a piece of media you want to share with the listeners on where they can learn more about your voice and the work you're doing? Yeah, so uh, the big biggest [01:32:00] communication I'm doing through my climbing and the media and doing is, is through, uh, writing and movies.

Um, so I would say I like the writing is most, mostly in French. So like, um, I've been writing a few articles for different kind of French magazines, I think maybe, maybe like through the movies we did a. Like on YouTube recently we did, we did, uh, a nice film about, uh, my ascent of Bon voyage in France, which is like a hard thread route in South France, which is a quite a nice movie, like, or at least a fun one.

Um, I think it could be nice, uh, checking it and I saw the movie and I recommend it. Yeah. Nice. Uh, we also, like, we are working on the film on this trip that we just did and on the Don Wall. So I think that's gonna be a media that, would be interesting to watch. Uh. There is also the first, [01:33:00] the first film about, um, about this project, which, which was, uh, about the whole expedition we did three years ago.

There is a film called, uh, captains on El Cap that you can download on, on the internet and yeah, I think that's the main, main media. Amazing Seth. Well. Thank you so much for taking the time. I feel my pleasure. Blessed that I caught you at the right time, when you actually completed your trip, had internet service, and made the time to talk to me today.

Seb, uh, thanks again for coming on the show. Thank you. Thank you as well. I, it was, it was a really interesting conversation. Thank you so much.