#88 Will to Return: What Two Solo Voyages Through the Alaskan Inside Passage—With Bears, Orcas, and 1,200 Miles Alone—Taught Her About Self-Belief and a Changing Coastline

Ageless Athlete - Susan Marie Conrad
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kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: [00:00:00] Imagine battling through a cathedral of coastal wilderness rainforests older than memory, Fs carved by ice, orcas slicing through glassy water. You are alone. Just you. Uh, 21 inch wide sea kayak and over a thousand miles of untamed coastline ahead. At age 49, Susan Mary Conrad paddled the full length of the inside passage from Washington to Alaska alone.

Then at 61, she went back and did it again. Few people even attempt something of this magnitude even [00:01:00] once and fewer still return over a decade later, . And Susan returned stronger, wiser and more. Intentional. The second time around in this conversation, Susan unpacks what these journeys really feel like, not just the beauty and danger, but the invisible weight of the tides, the logistics of food, the fear, trust, and.

She talks about the stark contrast between big cruise ships and her tiny kayak about facing down a grizzly bear, dodging glaciers, and still finding magic in the call of a loon. 

I always like to start with this question, which is where are you this morning and [00:02:00] what did you have for breakfast?

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Well, I am in the northwest corner of Washington state. Uh, have the, uh, San Juan Islands, which is, um, archipelago of world class paddling almost in my front yard, um, which is the southern portion of the inside passage, which I'm sure we'll talk about. And what did I have for breakfast? I had a small bowl of, um, organic yogurt from one of my local dairies.

Uh, and, uh, a little bit of fresh fruit picked from my neighbor's garden. And a handful of, uh, sprouted, uh, pumpkin seeds from my local food co-op. So very healthy, nutritious breakfast. Kind of my my go-to most days.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: It sounds nutritious and nourishing in, in different kind of ways, and I feel like this is such a fitting, uh, maybe breakfast for somebody who, who likes to travel in human powered transport that [00:03:00] like to also, find food locally as evidenced by your breakfast. For those of us who may not have heard about you, Susan, please tell us who are you and what do you do?

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Yeah. So, um, I'm an adventure paddler, a a long distance, um, like expedition paddler, and I've, um, completed two through paddles, um, kinda like through hiking, where you do it from end to end in one fell swoop of the inside passage from Washington State, um, to. Different locations in, in Southeast Alaska. Uh, I've written books about those experiences and speak about them, mentor others, uh, to do similar expeditions, primarily younger women, which is really, you know, really floating my boat, so to speak.

And yeah, all of that wrapped together. I, uh, now I've been referring to myself as an [00:04:00] adventure preneur, so one who makes their living off of adventure, so to speak. So I, I get to go off and have these ma amazing experiences and then share them with the world, whether it's through storytelling or, um, imagery or mentoring and all of that wrapped into one big package.

So it's, yeah, it's, it's, it's a thing and I love it.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: Beautiful. This, uh, analogy with through hiking that you just shared, it's. I hadn't thought about it before. Yeah. Curious beyond just the obvious, which is yes, when you're through hiking, the PCT or the 80 or something, you know, equally. Equally, uh, epic. The contrast, obviously, you know, you are in a boat a water and those people are on land. Any unobvious, but maybe significant [00:05:00] contrast between the two.

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: That's a great question. Um, yeah, I mean, and it's similar just like a long distance hiker. We'll, we'll tackle a, a through hike of, like you said, the Appalachian Trail or the Pacific Crest Trail. We paddlers take on a similar challenge, but it's, it, it's, it's a radically different platform and it, it's like.

A a and I, I'm a paddler, not a hiker, and this is not to, to dis hiking at all. Hike long distance hikes would kill me. Um, but it's like, I think a big difference is for the most part, a a hiker's trail is the same trail that the next hiker will experience, right? The, the miles are pretty much the same. The distance is preordained and forward progress is putting one foot in front of the other, and it's just worlds apart sea kayaking or sea kayaking, the inside passage, because there's literally thousands upon thousands of islands.

our days are governed by the tides in the currents and, you know, our progress is dictated by the moods of the [00:06:00] sea and, you know, all of that. And, you know, we're carried along and are fighting against wind waves and currents. So, yeah, it's, I think that's the biggest difference is that there's so many different choices and routes and ways to get lost to complete our objectives.

Yes. That makes so much sense because most people, when they start, uh, uh. Uh, a specific long hiking journey. They have a fair sense of the places they will walk through, the places they may

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Mm-hmm.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: and most often, always the trail well marked in your case, the are, or the combinations are almost infinite. And oh my goodness, that's such a, such a good, uh, contrast you've pointed out. wait to get into the actual trip

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Yeah.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: in a bit, [00:07:00] talking of contrast, here's another fun question that came to mind when we were exchanging messages. You spoke about lecturing on large cruise

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Yes.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: right? And these are. These cruise ships, you know, they, they glide over the same waters that you spent paddling alone in a, in a small kayak. so what is it like to speak on stage about, you know, your, say, raw and intimate journey while you are on a floating hotel?

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Literally, it's a, it's a floating city and the, the line that I work for, it's, it's the, they're massive. It's one of the bigger ships in the fleet, so like 4,000 passengers, if you [00:08:00] can wrap your brain around that plus 1400 crew and yeah, and never in a million years did I see myself doing this right when I set off on that first expedition.

Well, I never intended to write a book and kayakers don't really like big ships. You know, that's one of our biggest fears is getting run over by them. But, you know, I just ended up kind of falling into this gig and I, I love what I do when I'm on board and it's, it's mind blowing for the people that come to my presentations.

'cause I, I try in my slideshow to, to compare and contrast the difference in these radically different vessels. And you could see people laughing like the juxtaposition. And I have this great photo that's like my, my title, photo, uh, uh, title image, of my kayaks on shore in the foreground. And this massive ship is going by in the background and there's an iceberg and mountains and it's, it's a classic photo, but.

When you think about the difference in size and weight [00:09:00] and carrying capacity and all of that between the two vessels, it's, it's mind boggling. So I go through this whole spiel. It's like, these ships are longer than the Empire State Building is tall, right? For starters and just the amount of food that they can carry.

And I compare that with how my kayak can provision for up to two weeks, you know, if I pack really, really, um, conservatively. yeah, I, I love inspiring a handful of people on these boats. Um, and my whole takeaway message is that, you know, they're, they're traveling through this magical seascape and, and, and I hope that my talk inspires them and motivates them to want to advocate for it like I do, to, to cherish it and, and protect it.

And yeah, I think a handful of people really kind of get, get that takeaway message. The rest are just kind of like, well, where's the bar? Where's the casino? Where's the swimming pool? Where's the, where's the food court?

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: [00:10:00] You know, it's, yeah. It's funny, some of those, uh, cruise ships, like they have proper swimming pools and I bet you could, you could kayak, take your kayak up to the pool

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Right.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: and you could practice, practice your role, you know? Uh, okay. wondering how fully your audience grasps the adventures.

You know, you, Susan, you Yeah. I can just, I can tell you are a gifted storyteller and you convey the journeys you've been on through visuals, through your photography. Any question though, perhaps that may have come up recently that just to keep us surprised?

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Questions that the audience asks me.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: Yeah. I'm curious if there was any like, question that popped up. You're like, wow, this, this person is thinking of in this

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Oh yeah. I've [00:11:00] had, like, when we do the q and a part, it's oftentimes the typical questions, you know, like, how did you do this? Or how did you get water? How did you pee? You know, things like that. But what immediately comes to mind? It was, um, a very recent, uh, cruise was, uh, and my audiences are predominantly adults, right?

Um, and it's, it's more or less an adult centered talk that I give. But there was this little girl sitting in the front, and it's a massive theater. It seats like, you know, 900 people and she must have been seven or eight. And she was with her mother and she was right up front, and I glanced at her every now and then, and she was.

Intent, like the whole time listening. And so when it's time to do the q and a, and I thought this was very brave 'cause as a little girl, I would've never done this. they, someone ran a microphone through the venue 'cause it was a huge space and she raised her hand. And so he comes over and she takes the microphone and, and she basically asked [00:12:00] me how I dealt with my fears, you know, and, and it kind of a roundabout way, like it was so cute.

Like, how, how do you not be scared? Because she heard me talk about the bears and, you know, being soak and wet and fighting off hypothermia and all this. And she's like, how do you not be scared? And it just, it just touched me, you know, coming, coming from her, her having the, the courage to ask that question and, you know, getting that from, from my presentation so that, that really warmed my heart.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: Do you think you might have minted a

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Yeah.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: adventurer?

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: hope so. And, and basically what I told her was, was just like, it's all about seeing yourself, you know, positive visualization, but I didn't use that, that particular phrase. 'cause that could probably be too much for her. But just like, see yourself at the finish line and you're warm and safe and dry.

See that bear walking away, not being interested in [00:13:00] you. You know, just, just picturing yourself as strong and courageous and, and just doing whatever that thing is that you want to do. And I think, I hope that's what her takeaway was.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: Sure. Yeah. Well, just to help listeners orient and to actually even help me get back in the inside passage, uh, scheme of things,

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Yeah. Yeah.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: what exactly is the inside passage, Susan?

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Yeah. So the inside passage is, it's, well, it's an extraordinary coastal route, and from a kayaker's perspective, it, it's, it's a water trail, right? It, it's kind of like a hiking trail, but I always joke without the signposts and the poison ivy. And it starts down here in the Puget Sound very close to where I live.

Um, so the Puget Sound is, um, part of a, a [00:14:00] broader area referred to as the Sailor Sea, which is, and that's the, the Washington State component of the inside passage. So that's the more urban coastlines of Olympia, Tacoma, Seattle, and then the San Juan Islands, this massive archipelago. And, um, lastly, the, the Strait of Wanda Fuca, which is a massive body of water that separates the Olympic Peninsula from, um, Vancouver Island.

And then it flows out into the open Pacific. And from there, the inside passage crosses up into British Columbia, and it goes along the entire BC coastline for about oh 700 miles, give or take. And then it crosses into Alaska, uh, and goes for another, uh, 450, 500 miles all the way till you literally run out of ocean at the top of what's referred to as Lin Canal.

And there's a small community there known as [00:15:00] Skagway, and when you paddle into Skagway, you feel like you've paddled into a scene out of wild, wild west or gun smoke or something. It's, it's just a bizarre little town. So that, that's the, the finish line. Um, if you go from south to north, uh, some paddlers will go a little further west and finish their journey in Glacier Bay National Park, which is also a, a phenomenal, uh, part of the world, part of Southeast Alaska.

So, yeah, in a nutshell that that's the inside passage.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: It is, a world apart from a lot of the, uh, contiguous us.

maybe to, a more, um, visual picture for listeners. What makes it. So wild and beautiful. And why are paddlers[00:16:00] 

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: Like Alaska has a huge coastline,

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Yes.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: And so does northeast of the us. So what makes this particular stretch alluring?

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: yeah, I think a big part of it is the, the biodiversity, the, the wildlife that you're gonna encounter. Just along the British Columbia coastline, there is an area, um, known as the Great Bear Rainforest, which is the largest intact temperate rainforest on earth. And it, it's a globally important ecosystem.

Um, it's a carbon oasis. Uh, and then when you jump into Alaska, it's very similar, the Tongass National Forest, which is another massive rainforest. And so you're gonna encounter whales, you know, orcas, humpback whales, uh, gray whales, dolphins, otters, you know, just every, every variety of, uh, seabirds that you can imagine.

And of course, the [00:17:00] bears. There's both coastal brown bears, which are a subspecies of the grizzly bear. and black bears, Did I, did I mention icebergs? When once you get a little north of, Petersburg, which is one of the southern ports in southeast Alaska, you'll, you'll, once you're north of the the southernmost Tidewater glacier, you're gonna see start to see icebergs, which was like a massive highlight for me and makes for great photo compositions as well.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: The inside passages can be this wide to accommodate. Proper iceberg. in my naive, uh, let's say naive imagination, I would think icebergs would exist in like large bodies of water. And when I think of, you know, the inside passages, I'm thinking like more constricted, maybe not too dissimilar to maybe just really wide rivers, or am I [00:18:00] totally

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Yeah, no, that, that's a good point. And a lot of people see it that way. But the inside passage is, well, it's, it's also a major thoroughfare for the big ships. Like even though the cruise lines that I'm on, for the most part, they'll go more on the outside and the more open water. But they do come into these ports and they go up these narrow fjords, which is crazy, you know, from the perspective of a kayaker.

But you know, for the most part, yeah, you are hugging as a paddle, you're hugging the shoreline. But for example, on my 2022 expedition, I had five. Uh, 10 to 12 mile open ocean crossings we're have to cross these big,

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: Uh.

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: you know, you look at a map and it looks all, you know, it looks so tiny and narrow, but these, these channels can be anywhere from five to 12 miles wide, if not, if not wider.

And there's certain areas that are exposed to the open Pacific. So these are what we refer to as our crux moves. Or there's areas where we're not in the so-called protected areas of the inside passage, but we're [00:19:00] exposed to the open swell of the ocean and anything that it can and will dish out. But conversely, in the more constricted areas are tidal, they're tidal rapids.

So you mentioned river. So they're very much like a saltwater river, but, um, they're gonna just to mess with you. They're just, they're gonna switch directions every six hours or so when the tide reverses itself. So there, there's an art to transiting the, the, the, the title Tidal Rapids of, uh, certain areas of the inside pass.

Very challenging.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: Wow. Yes. So dynamic.

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Yes.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: So 3D in all kinds of ways. I mean, um, you know, most people will, including myself, will, will, will never paddle 1200 miles solo or even in the company of others. It just, um, yeah, it almost sounds [00:20:00] mythical. I think many people here understand though the life of, let's say a backpacker on land because many people backpack, way more people backpack, I'm guessing, than even get on a kayak. So. You know, I'm trying to help us understand how that feels like, because you know, you look at something on a map, you read about it, you know those big numbers. Yeah, yeah. I don't know how many days, how many miles, you know, people get, like those numbers create fog. But you can take us into the daily of a day while you were doing this expedition. Perhaps things like, you know, where would you sleep? What did you eat? what would be a good day or a bad day? How would that feel like out there?

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Yeah, that, that's a [00:21:00] great question. And that's one way, like, just take, breaking it down to one day, that's like mentally wrapping your brain around a, a multi-month expedition. Anybody, well, I shouldn't say anybody, but you know, it's, it's not that difficult. With a certain skillset to paddle one day, right?

You just, you, you pack the boat, you click off some miles, you stop for lunch, take some photos, you find a, hopefully a suitable campsite. 'cause you are dealing with this extreme intertidal differences where, you know, setting up camp and breaking camp entails, uh, schlepping that gear in the kayak itself.

Sometimes the equivalent of up to two football fields over some pretty messy, uneven, and sometimes very dangerous terrain. Um, but you find a suitable camp, hopefully you set up that camp, catch up on your journal entries and just thousands of calories and you climb into your tent and you have a good sleep.

And then you [00:22:00] get up in the morning reverse everything and then repeat. So if you can do that one day, you know it's the mental game of breaking it down into bite-sized chunks. And much like I did for the whole expedition in, in, you know, it's too overwhelming to look at the whole map, the whole chart of the inside passage, but if you break it down, like most paddlers do, uh, via the, the resupply ports, so for me, there were seven sections that were structured around my six ports of call.

So these were towns that I would paddle into to retrieve my supplies that were mailed ahead to those towns, and that makes it much more manageable. Um, and, and then these ports become kind of like a milestone for the, for the next section. You, you get to get a, a roof over your head and hopefully a pillow under your head, a shower.

Um, and just as many calories as you possibly can, socialize a little bit, right? That's the big part of it is just eating your way through these towns and then you set off on the, on the next leg of the adventure. [00:23:00] So.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: For sure. you know, you, you, you described like, let's say, um, a day that you would want ha to happen, you know, like a day which would start like this, which would have a bunch of paddling and then camping eating. So that is perhaps a day on script.

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Yes.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: So he, he, here's a funny question. So if you think back roughly like out of, let's say in your last crossing, how many days do you think were just like the one you described the ones where things went off?

Script

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Yeah.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: things, things went awry for all

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And Mother Nature for the most part, mother Ocean is going to dictate that. There were days where I had plotted out on my chart. I'm okay, this is a 20 mile day, which was pretty typical for me, 20 to 25 miles a day, but I, uh, [00:24:00] set off and within a couple miles it's like, uh, no, like the wind kicked up, the sea state kicks up.

It's a headwind. You're, you know, you just can't even paddle against it anymore. It just makes no sense. So you turn around, either go back to where you were or you hack out, which typically this happened probably 15 to 20% of the time where you're hacking out a pretty miserable campsite. But you are so thankful just to get off the water.

Yeah. And then also bears, right? That is a big, you talk to any inside passage paddler, and one of their biggest fears is encountering bears in camp. And, there was one day where I, was actually gonna go around this headland and out into the exposed Pacific. And, um, conditions seemed okay at the time, but once I got around the corner, it was the same kind of thing.

Like, uh, just gonna go with my intuition on this one, which has always been, you know, pretty good. [00:25:00] And so I turned around and I landed on this small island that it actually had camped on in previous expeditions. Other paddlers have camped there. We all know that bears can swim. Uh, but I really wasn't thinking of bears at this time, and it's still early in the day and hadn't set up camp yet, fortunately.

and I had just paddled a couple of miles. And a bear, a mama bear and a cub show up, like just come galloping out of the forest and came to a screeching halt within, oh, maybe 30 feet of me. They were that close and I didn't have my protection on me. My bear spray was in the kayak, which was stashed behind a log.

I had food in my hand, it was lunchtime. I had food in my hand and I've just shocked or scared a mom with a cub, you couldn't be in a more dangerous situation. So that idyllic little island, um, was very short lived. obviously I survived the encounter. She wasn't aggressive. She [00:26:00] ran back into the woods after I went ballistic and I packed up that boat so fast Paddled back down this channel. I had come up earlier that day where I found this little, I discovered this little, um, floating platform. It's where fishermen sort their nets. It was just in the middle of this narrow channel and there were a couple of fishing boats nearby. And I explained what happened and asked if I could, you know, sleep on that float.

'cause there was no way I was sleeping on land that night because they, they were so close and they said, yeah, of course you'll, you'll be safe here. So that was a plan B that, you know, worked out to my advantage. But it, you know, it, there's just, there's, there's no known outcome and that's what makes an adventure.

Right. Otherwise, we could all just go to Disneyland.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: 30 feet in front of, uh, mama Bear and her, uh, Cub. when it comes to, yeah, people imagining like animal

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Mm-hmm.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: of the [00:27:00] dangerous kind. It doesn't sort of get more, um, scary than that. You did not have your base spray on you, did you practice any safety maneuvers? I feel like every now, every, every time you go through, yeah.

Every time you do some research on like fending or wild animals, you hear something different. Should I run down? When should I make myself bigger? Should I, should I turn away or should I stare down? Like,

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Right.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: what is actually, what is actually effective?

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Yeah, exactly. And, and you know, like I said, it happens so quickly. These encounters always happen so quickly you're not expecting them and. She was so close, and I just remember my eyes locking on her hump, right? And that's when you say, oh shit, this is a grizzly. This is a grizzly bear. And I could see the gradations in her fur, like going from like this beautiful, almost coppery brown to a darker black and then down to the claws, like these massive claw and then the [00:28:00] little cub right behind her.

But you know, my brain, it took my brain a few seconds to calibrate, like what was happening. 'cause I hear the galloping first, and then all of a sudden she's in front of me and I'm like, like literally two or three seconds. That seemed like an eternity. And did I do the right thing? I, you know, I didn't have my bear spray on me.

And I, all of a sudden I had like Michael Jordan jumping abilities. I just jumped on this log, like superwoman, and I just started yelling, yelling and screaming, and waving my hands. Now. She wasn't being aggressive. If she was being aggressive. Then what I've researched and people I've talked to is that you make yourself small, right?

You just, you're, you're not a threat. Just, just keep on moving. But she wasn't being aggressive. She was just right there. And so I just helped her know that, you know, I, I'm here, I'm human, you know, I'm [00:29:00] not, I'm not a bear, I'm human. and I'm not really a danger to you, but just like, we're not jiving, just go away.

And that's, I was very lucky that's what happened. And when I paddled into a small port a few days later, and I talked to some hunters, fishermen, people that have lived in these waters, you know, all their lives, and asked them if I did the right thing. And they were like, well, you're here to talk about it.

Um,

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: Yeah.

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: I guess I did the right thing, but I, it was really just, it wasn't my time, it wasn't my turn, and I was just incredibly. Fortunate that she wasn't being aggressive, so

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: Susan, I find this contrast, know, so, stark between that, through hiking, one example and, doing, uh, long kayak trip where you could have the longest roughest of days as you're through hiking. [00:30:00] You know, let's say you got dehydrated, sunburned, you hiked a lot more miles and you thought wanted to, you got altitude sickness in the process. more often than not, you know where you are gonna camp and you know that you're gonna get there. Yes, it's gonna be a bit of work to set up your, your tent and. You know, maybe you don't have enough warm clothes, but you know roughly where you will sleep.

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: yes.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: But in your case, there were so many days where you could not reliably make camp because of so many of these multi-dimensional

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Mm-hmm. Wild cards.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: You talked about wild court, you talked about the animals. You actually, al also talked about the tides. And I think most of us, when you think, think about tides, you know honestly like the, the picture that comes to mind is you [00:31:00] are at the beach and you spent a long day out there and you'll see the waterline

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Yes.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: Maybe when you got there at one point you see this one mark and then it, but I think people don't realize the severity. The, the swings. Can you talk about that for a moment and how that impacts your, uh, your journey?

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Yeah, that's a really good point. And that's another big difference between backpackers pitching camp and a kayaker, at least on the inside passage. If you're backpacking, I know there's specific areas on trails where you are to camp and can't camp, but you pretty much plop your backpack down and pitch your tent and Yeah.

It's worlds apart up here because, well, if you think of like the coastlines, like in Florida, or you know, down on ba on the Baja, the Sea of Cortez, they have a a, there's a tide, but it's [00:32:00] like three to six inches, which is almost laughable, right? It's just a little lapping in and lapping out and on the inside passage because of the topography and the steepness in some areas in these fjords and also even the sha more shallower bays, it's like a tidal elevator.

And it could be anywheres from 18 up to, I think the, the maximum that I've experienced was about 24 feet of this vertical

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: Wow.

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Yeah. So in areas that are more shallow, it's like you wake up in the morning, unzip your tent, where you've paddled in on high tide and it's kind of the easy button, right?

You don't have too far to go. You can tell from the rack line like the debris line that the previous high tide had left. Um, and, and you know, if it's the tide is increasing each night or if it's decreasing, the GPS will tell you that too with today's technology. But, so you're pretty well assured that it's not gonna flood you.

But then in [00:33:00] the morning you unzip your tent and it's low tide and it's just like who pulled the plug on the bathtub? Right? And sometimes you can't just wait six hours for it to come in. You have to get on the water and be. Beat the wind before it comes up in the afternoon, or catch a title, rapid, what, you know, whatever the case may be.

and then conversely, in some of these, uh, fjords, and it's the, um, the opening chapter in my book, um, it's almost every paddler's nemesis, uh, this place called Grenville Channel, which is the central coast of British Columbia and extreme title differences. Very few places to come ashore, much less camp.

uh, there were a couple of nights where my tent site was flooded and I knew that was gonna happen. I just, I, I couldn't get to higher ground. It's just cliffs and impenetrable forest behind me. So you just kind of have to deal with it. You let the tide come in and I literally was holding my tent up, waiting for the, the tide to.

You know, [00:34:00] finish the top end of its cycle and then just almost right on cue, according to my GPS reversed and it went back out to sea, and then I could put the tent back up and at least get a couple hours of sleep. So, yeah, it's a tremendous amount of work and I, I often joke that paddling is the easy part.

It's the land-based chores where that, where wears you down, schlepping that gear. It's a process of an, uh, an hour, uh, two hours, the whole thing, you know, packing up camp, and from the moment I unzip my tent door in the morning, to the moment that I'm taking my first strokes is typically an hour and a half to two hours.

You know, that, that's eating breakfast, that's packing the boat. It depends on the intertidal range, you know, all of that has to factor in. Then once I'm, my butt is in the cockpit and I take my first stroke, I'm like, finally, you know, I get, I get to paddle and, and the injuries, the, most of the injuries we're gonna occur on land too, right.

You know, twisting an ankle, we have to care, we have to schlep that boat. We have to hook it up on our shoulder [00:35:00] or drag it and empty, they weigh about 50 pounds, you know, give or take. So, yeah, that, that, that's a, a lot of energy expended. Just, just the, the nature, the intrinsic nature of the land-based stuff.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: I am guessing for most people who think that, you know, kayaking is an upper body sport, know, you have to maybe do some overnight kayaking with all the work that's, uh, needed with what you talked about. And again, this is not just like a, like a little day kayak that you, you know, you go out for a paddle, you come back, your kayak is loaded

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Mm-hmm.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: with all your survival

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: All your gear.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: gear, all your gear and toolkit, and yes, you have written this beautiful book.

I, I you've written many books. The one that I'm loving is inside, I think maybe your first

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Yes.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: And you also talk about, [00:36:00] Maybe, I don't know if it was a miscalculation or something else, but like going, going to sleep then maybe coming to waking up because there's water in your tent,

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Under my tent, yes, that's

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: under your

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: channel. Yes.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: Yes. Yeah. How and on. Conversely, this can happen as well. Like you make, uh, landfall, you pitch your, pitch, your tent up, and you think that, you know, in the morning you can pack up and paddle away, but the tide maybe recedes

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Yes.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: to, to much further out than than expected, which means that now you have to drag your vessel. Through this submerged

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Mm-hmm.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: full of all kinds of hazards, likely plus, plus, you know, all the, uh, [00:37:00] the work in being able to do that.

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Exactly. Yeah. And like certain areas I would drag the kayak. Um, I had a, a professional keel strip, uh, installed fiberglass onto the bottom. It's about oh three inches wide and maybe eighth inch thick. And it's from bow stern. And just to protect it, get a little more structural integrity, but you can really damage the kayak, and I have by, by dragging it.

So what, what you do, like on the first trip I was, uh, on the first expedition that, that book is about, I was only 49, 49 years young. I thought I was old then. I was, I was in my prime. But that just, I could hook the kayak up on my shoulder. And just very carefully, it's like having this 50 pound seesaw on your shoulder and then you're navigating, you're trying to watch your feet, but you can't really see your feet.

And you have your paddle in your other hand and you're trying to navigate whatever, 50, a hundred yards, sometimes 200 yards down to the water's edge. And then you have to go [00:38:00] back and make multiple trips with all of the, the gear bags, all the waterproof gear bags. but what we do sometimes is you get really creative with, uh, beach rollers.

So pieces of driftwood. Um, it's the first thing I do when I land, when I know this is gonna be an issue the next morning when I have to. Launch is, um, I look for pieces that are about the size of my arm, and I'll stash those above the high tide line. And then you can just create this rolling system where you roll your kayak, you have three or four of them lined up, and then you roll the kayak and get the, the stern to the last log.

And then you take all the logs and you run and you put them in front of the kayak and, you know, you repeat until you're to the water's edge. That can take anywheres from 15 to 30 minutes just for that part of the, the packing, the packing up and, and taking your first stroke. So it's all part of the process though.

And, and some days our, like I said, the easy button some days are just like, oh, I needed this. Thank you. There's not a big title exchange. [00:39:00] because of, you know, with the, the moon where the phase of the moon is at the time, Or it's just the topography. It's, it's not that big of a deal. So every once in a while you just like, oh, thank you.

Thank you.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: Yes. Bring, bring all your knowledge. Bring your knowledge of like the ocean uh, the environment, but also maybe bring your best. Improvisation game

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Yeah.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: because there's probably only so much you can learn in the classroom. Like once you're actually in that

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Mm-hmm.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: you are learning and executing

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Good.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: on the fly.

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: That's what I love about it, because it's, you know, kayaking really requires problem solving, problem solving skills on the fly, and just staying power and tenacity, you know, and stubbornness and, and all of that, which I've got all, I've got all that in spades. The stubbornness, the tenacity.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: You [00:40:00] know, uh, people listening, they might be like, oh my gosh, this is, uh, you know, all these hazards bears all these risks. But I think on the flip side, there, there is so much magic and I'm reme, I'm guessing. Yeah. There were probably many moments of, of stillness. Of wonder

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Yes,

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: that cracked you open,

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: absolutely.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: you know, the kind that maybe make you forget all the

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Mm-hmm.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: Can you maybe take us through maybe a moment or two where that happened for

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Hmm. Yeah, many, many moments like that and, and, you know, the whole solo aspect too. There's a lot of reasons that I go solo, but I, one of the biggest reasons is that, that what I [00:41:00] refer to as this heightened awareness, that comes from being, you know, just out there and, and being 100% reliable on my own skills and abilities.

And it, it's just like this, this heady sense of freedom and, and, and the problem solving and, and you know, just, just all of that and how the experiences all mine and, and, and no one else's. I can go at my own pace. I can paddle as many miles as I want to. yeah. And so there was this time, there's so many experiences, but what immediately comes to mind was on the 2022 expedition, I, of, of course, it was benign conditions.

I was in this narrow channel. It was just absolutely magical. This was the, the magic carpet ride part of the journey where I often say in my slideshows that like 80, 80, 70, 80% of. My journeys are these magic carpet rides. And then the other 20, 30% not so much. It's like, it's not in the brochure. I want my money back.

Right. But I [00:42:00] was just in this magical world, there were loons that were calling each other like this, this eerie is the wrong word, just this magical, sound that they make. And I was just floating and listening.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: Sorry. Sorry, what? What? What are, you say loons?

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: L-O-O-N-S. They're, they're, they're a waterbird and they have this, this beautiful song when they communicate with each other and they're very common, um, up in southeast Alaska. And I just was floating and drifting and listening. And then there were some whales in the distance that were spouting.

I couldn't see them, but I could hear them and I was like, this is why I've come. You know, the, the experiences like this where you're so tuned into yourself and you're, you're, you're disconnected from the hectic wired world out there, and you're connected with yourself and the ocean and nature and, you know, all of that.

It's just like, that's the feeling [00:43:00] that I want to hold onto, you know, long after I've, I've, uh, completed, completed the journey.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: And Susan again, like that sounds beautiful when a lot of people think of Alaska, or at least the wildlife, right? So the bears for sure, then also, also, you know, those huge leviathans in the ocean. many years ago I did a trip to Alaska, kind of a classic like tourist trip. I actually did some kayaking as

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Nice.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: uh, down by Homer, I think. then we, we did this, um, you know, this daylong cruise and O off seaward, and we saw, we were lucky to see a of

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Hmm. Nice.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: And even from like, let's say the safety and the height of a big rig, those things take your breath away.

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: They're massive.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: So how did it [00:44:00] feel the first time one of those guys decided to

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: The, the first time

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: of you?

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: it was terrifying. It's not terrifying anymore. But the first time I, so I was paddling with one of my mentors. He has a big voice, uh, in the narrative of, uh, inside, uh, my first book. And so I was, I was pretty new to all of this ocean paddling, so I was following him. We were along a, a open, rocky coastline, and he'd encountered many whales by that point in, in his paddling life.

So it was no big thing to him. But the ocean was kind of tumultuous. It was a little foggy, rocky rolly, and I'm just trying to stay close to him and trying to stay upright. And this massive, uh, I think it was a gray whale surfaced. Very close, very close. I could have almost reached out and touched it with my paddle, [00:45:00] and he was just like taking pictures and going up and down on this, what I referred to as this nautical rollercoaster.

Just so excited. And I'm just, I screamed. I literally screamed at the top of my lungs and he's just like, what's the matter? I was just like, whale, whale and you. And he just reassured me over time too, and more experiences that they are aware of your presence. They're just gentle giants. They're just doing their whale thing.

And sure, there's the one in a million chance that you could have this errant flip of a tail and there you go into the water. But, um, yeah, they're just, they're just busy feeding for the most part. And there were other encounters where I had them go, like, under my kayak, and then on the other side, they would roll over and I could, I'd look right into their eyeballs, like they're massive eyeballs.

And they're like, the biggest ones I've seen are 35 feet long, like 30, I think 30,000 tons, something like that. [00:46:00] They're just massive. And then the killer whales, the, the orcas, um, they're much smaller, but. They're fast and unpredictable and they have teeth. So the first time I saw their dorsal fins are like six feet tall and, you know, coming right at you and you're in this 21 inch wide kayak, and their movements are very erratic.

And then they, then they dive and you have no clue where they are and where they're gonna come up. That's, that's a bit nerve wracking. but over the years I've, you know, I've been doing this for, gosh, I'm dating myself here. started in college, which would be the late eighties, early nineties, so, my gosh, over four decades.

But just, you know, now it's, it's just a treat and you really hope that you're gonna

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: Sure.

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: but still you don't, especially when the conditions are rough. You don't want them to get too close. It's just like, that's, that's good enough. Just go get, go do your whale thing over there. I'll take a photo.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: [00:47:00] Well, these large, I mean, let's say colossal creatures, they are highly intelligent and it seems that. They're also very self-aware of themselves and their presence. Like they're not clumsy. Right? Like they're know exactly where their body

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Yes.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: in relation to others in the sea around them. Yes. I mean, I, yeah, I mean it, know, for all the, surrounded by most of us, by technology, by urbanization, but nature is so vital.

Like it only takes one or one, I shouldn't even use the word encounter. Uh, maybe just a sighting,

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Yes.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: just a single sighting can like really transform how we think about [00:48:00] our planet. And also you write about that beautifully. I also was curious about other aspect of the kind of, say living beings, you meet on these trips,

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Mm-hmm.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: right?

So you are doing this trip solo, but are not always alone, right? You are, you meet other people on the trip, sometimes on kayaks, and often when you are making, visits to ports, to restock and like you said, eat your way through, uh, uh, the stop particularly. I'm curious, um, do you think that people treat solo travelers, especially solo women, differently? I ask this because I'm somewhat familiar with the experience of being, let's say, a [00:49:00] solo male

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Mm-hmm.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: And sometimes let's say a solo brown guy, you know, often in like places where there're not too many people of

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Mm-hmm.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: And I'm curious, like how does your, any reflections on like how you get treated, how do you get welcomed given who you are and what

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Yeah. I think you're right about being the somo solo female traveler. Uh, I've had, especially on the second journey, because I was more open to it and I'll, I'll talk about that a little bit, but people just, they want to help, you know, they, they, and especially being an older, I was 62, uh, 61 or no. 61, uh, when I did, uh, the, the most recent expedition.

And so I think people are taken by, you know, they, they have a, maybe a [00:50:00] sense of what it takes to pull something of this nature off. And I'm by myself. I am, I've covered, you know, really long distances. The weather is really snotty and they wanna help me. They wanna put a roof over my head or a pillow under and they wanna feed me.

Everybody wants to feed you or give you a cold beer, whatever, whatever the situation is. But I think, like, especially on the first journey, you know, I just, that was my first big expedition alone and I think. I just wanted to see if I could pull it off. I just wanted to do it. And, um, I wasn't really that open to having these encounters in ports and, and I'm classic introvert, like my knee jerk reaction.

I'm on a little island and I see a boat go by is to hide, or at least it was back then. And so I didn't, I wasn't open to these experiences and these encounters and I would come into a port and I would just get a motel room. Uh, I would splurge or a hostel if there was one. And then I would just keep, keep to myself.

But [00:51:00] as I approached these communities, my biggest fear was. That of men with ill intentions. When you're out in the wild, yeah, there's possible bears and whatnot. Um, but as you get closer to communities, you start seeing signs of humanity and that's, you know, like toilet paper in the woods and leaving garbage, which is gonna bring the bears in.

Or you see the occasional, occasional, um, small boat come and land and then you're concerned like, oh my God, is this person gonna come and slit my throat? Or, you know, your, your mind can really get carried away. And there were a few instances where I just went with my intuition and left that situation.

But fast forwarding to the 2022 expedition, one thing that I vowed I was gonna do differently was a, I was gonna do slower. I was gonna paddle a little slower and not do these crazy marathon distances day after day after day. 'cause my body just couldn't handle it. I had some long days, but Mother Nature dictated that.

[00:52:00] But the, I was gonna be open. To, when I come into these ports or where there were people just open to whatever experience and not, not, not be my introverted self. And the title of my talk that I give on these cruise ships is entitled Seeking Synchronicity. Like when, when you open yourself up to these opportunities, the magic that happens was just, it just happened over and over and over again.

The people that I met and the stories that came from those people, yeah, it was just, it was like a whole different, a whole different type of journey for me.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: Susan, that is profound. And the title of your talk that hits deep, uh, seeking synchronicity. And I think there's something powerful here for us, which is, yeah, maybe you can. Maybe elaborate on this a [00:53:00] little bit on what is, what, what, what is it that you mean by being open? By being receptive, what does that bring?

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Yeah. Well, well, it's just like, like, first of all, like synchronicity. it, it's just like these, these moments in our lives that seem random or coincidental, whether they're just our everyday lives or out on a big journey, they're just, they're, they're meant, everything happens for a reason, right? Is was kind of the mentality going, going into this that, um, and that's exactly what Synchron synchronicity is.

These things that seem random or coincidental are actually all tied together. Right, and, and we're all tied together. Every, everything is connected and, and everything happens at a certain time and a certain place for, for a specific reason, you know, in most cases. So that, that was the, the soundbite that I was going with and just opening myself up to that.

So, [00:54:00] backing up a little bit, a big impetus for this second expedition was to follow in the paddle strokes of my hero, one of my biggest inspirations, her, her name was Audrey Sutherland, and talk about an ageless athlete. She had kayaked, tens of thousands of miles, almost always solo, and she did it in an inflatable kayak, much slower than a hard shell.

And she did it in her sixties, seventies, and well into her eighties. So she resigned for me. You know, what it, what it means to grow old and to stay active and keep doing these seafaring expeditions. And when I reread for like the fifth time, her third and last book, paddling North, which tells the story of her earliest kayak expeditions in Alaska, in, in the early eighties, that's when I decided that the world needs to know more about this woman.

And like she was this unspoken legend. And I defiantly closed the [00:55:00] pages of that book and I said, I'm going to recreate her route and I'm gonna paddle to Sitka Alaska. So little off the main path of the, the traditional inside passage. So that's what I did. I basically curated this experience of recreating her experience.

And, and, and that's the story that I, that I tell. And so before I came into a lot of these ports, I knew about people that. Remembered her that invited me in, that I would interview. And they had amazing memories of when Audrey came through, you know, decades earlier. And so that was a big part of the synchronicity and opening myself up to these experiences and, you know, having these transcripts of all these people that I talked to.

And now I'm working on weaving all of that into, um, this, this new book about the more recent expedition of, you know, re recreating her route and essentially, feeling the essence of [00:56:00] her along the way. Camping on some of the same beaches, following the same coastline. Uh, there's hot springs along the way.

I soaked in some of the same hot springs. She has camp recipes in her book. I recreated as close as I could her own, you know, dehydrated rehydrated meals along the way. So, you know, the whole, the whole Audrey Sutherland package. So that was a. With huge, huge project and it just opened up, you know, so many doors for me.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: Susan, you didn't just, uh. You know, you just didn't read about Audrey's experience. You went this step. This, I say, big step reliving that experience. Any advice for the rest of us on how can we bring more synchronicity into our lives?

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: How can you bring more synchronicity into your life? I think that the biggest first step is [00:57:00] just to be open to it, right? Just for me, that that was huge. Just not to go with my own personal knee jerk reaction of, you know, disappearing, like making myself small and quiet, which is a, you know, a self-defeating.

Um, coping mechanism learned from a, a very scary childhood. And, you know, I feel like I've worked through that, that over the years with, you know, all the work that I've done, whether it's aquatherapy being on the water or seeing a, you know, professional therapist, but it's still sometimes my go-to reaction.

So that's the biggest takeaway. It's just open yourself up to that. And so that's the biggest takeaway is just open yourself with trust in yourself, trust in the process.

Does that make sense?

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: I am gonna, yeah, no, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, uh, this a little bit

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Yeah.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: which is, which is, you know, as we go live our lives on a daily basis, can [00:58:00] you illustrate what would that be? To open ourselves?

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: On a daily basis off of an expedition, just to just day to day.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: Yeah. Just, you know, most people here are not gonna paddle 1200 miles, but, but I think we could all benefit from this bit of wisdom on. Being able to be open to these things.

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: That is a good question. I'm struggling with the answering. Yeah. Other than just, you know, the trust, uh, in trusting in the process and where that, you know, where that might take you, where that, where that might take others who have also crossed your path, you know, others that

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: sure.

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: you could inspire. They're gonna inspire you, you can inspire them, and that in turn, it's like this domino effect, [00:59:00] right?

Yeah.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: Susan, you went and did this trip again the second time, and you already spoke off this huge impetus, and you did that the age of 49, the first time when you said you were. In retrospect, you were peaking now you did that at 61. So I have, you know, a couple of through lines to go through here.

The first is, what did you notice about yourself, both physically maybe even deeper?

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Mm-hmm. On the second trip, um,

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: Yes.

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: yeah, I would always joke, you know, it was 12 years later and, uh, hopefully I was 12 years wiser. I, I, I definitely felt I had more experience under my belt, more staying power, but also 12 years slower. And once I was on the water, I. You know, 'cause that is just what I am wired to [01:00:00] do.

I just have those, what they, they call them, um, slow twitch muscle fibers. Right. It's like the tortoise and the hair. I've never been fast at anything. I, I sucked at all the sports in school, all of that. But once I got into like these endurance things, it's like, this is what I can do. but it just, I was, I was slower on land.

Like once I got on the water, you know, I was for the most part, okay. I wasn't, I was gonna cap it at about 20 to 22 miles and versus 26 to 30. But on land I noticed that I was at least much more cognizant of my body English. Right. Just 'cause that's where you, like I said, that's where you're gonna hurt yourself.

You're especially, there's a lot of twisting and lifting. And that's where you're gonna, you know, blow out your back or you're gonna twist, you know, a, an ankle or something. And there's, you know, help can be a long ways away up there. So that was a big difference, just much more intentional on [01:01:00] land. I noticed when I unzipped that tent in the morning, I wasn't just, you know, jumping out of it.

It was like, oh yeah, this is a whole different ball of wax. I mean, you know, more, more aches and pains and, and all of that. And so just, just embracing that and spending a little bit more time on land, not feeling quite so rushed to get on the water. although, you know, the winds do pick up in the afternoon, so there is that, there's always this cognitive dissonance of wanting to get going.

And also embrace, embrace the time on, on land, not easy to do.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: Yes. Yes. Well, 12

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Mm-hmm.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: you learned so many things the first time around. I'm curious if there were maybe a couple of lessons from the first trip that HA, that

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Yeah.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: you succeed this time

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Yeah. The biggest lesson I think was just acceptance, right? J just accept, I had to accept the weather. I had to accept [01:02:00] the sea state. I had to accept the, the camp that I might have chosen, the, the possible presence of bears. I, I had to accept that everything was wet and I still had a lot of, you know, a lot of miles to paddle.

and then also accept that, you know, I've got the skillset, you know, under my belt, I've got all the best gear, I've got the skills, I've got the training, I've got the experience. So, with my own, I. That, that it's not built in courage. It's, it's like, it's earned courage and, and trust that, you know, I, I'm gonna, it's like that little girl, what she was asking who sat in the front of the audience.

Like, how did you, how did you not be fearful? And it's just trusting in my, my judgment, my problem solving skills and that I'm, I'm gonna be okay. That I visualize myself at the so-called finish line, my bowel scrubbing [01:03:00] up on shore and, and, uh, yeah, that I've, that I've pulled off another successful expedition.

That, that was a big lesson for me. Just, uh, you know, believing, believing in myself.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: Yeah. And maybe, yeah. Um, on a later note, believing that you know, these whales

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Yeah.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: you are not going to, not gonna try to, uh, you or, or eat you. then also likely some lessons on how to find the right camp

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Hmm,

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: and trusting that yes, if the tide brought you in. It'll also pull you back

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: yes.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: if you have the patience to wait for it.

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Patience. That's a big, that's a huge lesson, right? So many, so many of us are lacking, and I think for me, patience is something I've always been challenged with. So that's, I think I gleaned a [01:04:00] lot of patience from, from the second expedition,

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: Yeah.

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: and wiser.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: I mean, it would be amazing to have the patience of like, you know, our, our middle years

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Mm-hmm.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: be available in our youth.

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Say again?

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: that would, that to, you know, to have the patience of our middle

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Yes.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: the patience and the experience and the lessons, and have those be available in our youth,

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Hmm.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: that would, that

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Would that be nice?

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: anyway, wouldn't that be nice? Exactly. other thing I wanted to explore with you, , you, you know, you bring this really unique perspective, those of us who are fortunate and skilled, if I add to do these big expeditions, you know, you might go and, you know, climb this, you know, some big, some big Himalayan [01:05:00] peak once, right? You might go and, uh, some other type of activity once

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Mm-hmm.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: Most people who will kayak the inside passage will likely not repeat it, but you have this really unique vantage point. You went and did it once and you went back

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Hmm.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: and did it again. And you know, we live in this period as a period of hastened climate change. And people will read about it, but many people will, most of us will never ex, at least in the West, let's say, will never experience the immediate impact the ecosystems that you paddle through. Rich in biodiversity, [01:06:00] but also very fragile.

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Yes. I.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: So. What changes did you notice, Susan, in the land or the water that felt off?

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Yeah, that's, that's, that was another, like the whole. Environmental part of it and, and wanting to raise awareness, um, for these fragile marina ecosystems that I was padding through was the second big impetus for the second trip. In addition to Audrey wanting to recreate her route and, and, and, you know, portray her as not only this legend, you know, this amazing woman that she was and this legend she came to be.

I also, the second time around, I wanted it to be more than just me, you know, in a kayak plying the coastline of Western North America. And I, so I wanted to give back to the inside passage, and I mentioned the [01:07:00] Great Bear Rainforest, which, you know, I, I said is the largest intact temperate rainforest on Earth.

And on that first trip, I learned about a conservation. Organization known as Pacific Wild, and it, it's a small nonprofit and uh, the couple that started this, um, a little over a decade ago, pretty much de dedicated their lives to protecting and advocating for the Great Bear Rainforest. And I've been supporting their work and following their work for quite some time by that point.

And so I reached out to them and we had this conversation of how we could possibly collaborate and bring, you know, make my expedition serve as a platform of sorts to raise awareness for the work that they do, the pivotal work they do for the Great Bear Rainforest. So it ended up being this amazing collaboration where they, and it was just for that section, so it was [01:08:00] about.

Uh, I think it was about 250 miles of the 1200 mile rat, where I'm paddling along this coastline, the, the Great Bear Rainforest. So they set me up with a, um, uh, portable about the size of a iPad, a connectivity device, so that every day I could send them data, I could send them short videos, I could send them, uh, photos, journal entries, voice memos, and just of my experience being the eyes, ears, and voice of the great barrier rainforest and what, what I'm seeing, what I'm feeling.

Um, so I would document trash, you know, single use, plastic, derelict fishing gear, things like that, being washed up on the beaches. Um, fish farms, if I saw trawlers out there that literally rake the bottom of our oceans and devoid, you know, of all biodiversity down there. Just tragic things like that. So I was documenting all this and what they in turn did was create this.

[01:09:00] This dynamic story map, um, that brought my journey to life while it was underway. So, you know, story maps are, they're essentially websites, interactive websites where people can follow along in real time. As I'm working my way up, you know, the, this ecosystem. And so the Pacific Wild Team, they would put maps in there.

Of course they would have the videos and photos, um, that I submitted and whatever I'm sending them, and then they would incorporate all the scientific components into it. So they're educating people about these systems as these fragile areas as I'm paddling through them. And just raising awareness also was a fundraising effort.

We raised $40,000 and that was all funneled back into Pacific Wilds Marine Protection campaign. So that was a, that was a huge part of the journey and it just raised my own awareness, like I am, you know, keyed into. Like seeing plastic washed up on the beaches and [01:10:00] you know, just things like that. That was a, the biggest difference that I noticed between the two expedition was just more, more things that didn't belong.

Right. That's what you

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: Oh

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: picks up on. You see color and it's a, you know, a washed up, you know, buoy or some sort of plastic or something like that. Yeah. Um,

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: That is.

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: oh, I'm sorry.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: Yeah, no, I was saying am a little bit surprised by that, um, by the impact of that observation. I thought the primary observations might be that maybe you saw less wildlife, maybe you saw less ice and snow cover.

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: That for sure. Yeah. I, I, the glaciers obviously are receding. Um, yeah. So less ice, less um, more people, more [01:11:00] garbage. Um, yeah. More degradation. Yeah.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: And I would also think that. You know, the Alaskan waters, I mean, they're such a heritage and, you know, whatever we do with our garbage and our plastic, we would try to keep them off our national

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Mm-hmm.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: And our, again, I would think that would not see them over there. know, we would see them maybe, you know, in, uh, other parts of the ocean where we have created landfills.

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Mm-hmm.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: But maybe what you're also pointing out is that, is that, you know, garbage has a way of appearing when you don't want it to appear. And plastic in particular, I, I think it's kind of indestructible.

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: forever. Yeah. When you think about it,

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: Yeah.

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: plastic that's ever [01:12:00] been made is, you know, it's gonna be here forever. 

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: Susan, you quote this idea that we protect what we

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Yes.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: and you say that, you know, we love we understand end. And I come back to like, can we make this relatable to the person? So how do the rest of us, how can we build that connection and appreciation of nature?

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: I think it's simply spending time in it, right? And immersing yourself in it. And it kind of circles back to one of your first questions about the, the cruise ships, you know, and like these thousands of people and me inspiring just a handful. And I think that what you were quo, how do I say it? You. You only conserve [01:13:00] what you love and you only love what you understand.

And I think that's my job right now. Maybe that's why I put on this earth, is it's my job to help people understand like why and how and all of that. Why, why these areas are fragile and what we can do to, you know, to, to protect them and to at least raise awareness and tell people, and, and I think it's just by spending time in nature, right?

You're, you're, you're just immediately, not everybody, but most people just feel this connection with it. And they want to just, just by virtue of that feeling connected and disconnected from everything else that they want to, you know, cherish and protect it. At least that's, that's my hope. And I think even if I'm just out of those 4,000 people on those ships, even if it's just a handful that get that takeaway message, then, then I've done my job.

So, and then for, you know, for everybody else, for [01:14:00] the, you know, the runners and the hikers and the climbers and the surfers and the kayakers. I, I think we're more tuned into that sort of thing anyway. And yeah, it's just spreading, spreading the words. Spreading the, spreading the love.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: And yeah, I mean, I can't agree more, but I think maybe to take that even further, I feel like one doesn't have to be an outer athlete

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: No, not at all.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: and, and you know, these large, large cruise ships, you know. Sure. I mean, to some degree, you know, they're. Criticism is valid. Yes. That they do produce a lot of pollution. I believe though, that if they allow more of us to the wild and the wonderful, I mean, you don't have to be in a kayak to, to be riveted the site [01:15:00] of, you know, orca playing with their pod and know, to code.

Like, like, yeah. I mean, we, we will, we, we will not love what we understand until we actually appreciate it as

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Bingo. Yeah.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: And yeah, I mean it doesn't matter like how you experience

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Mm-hmm.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: like if you just get the chance to experience it at some

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Mm-hmm.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: You will want to protect it.

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Exactly. Yeah. And it doesn't matter, like with the inside passage or, or anywhere, is really, it doesn't matter how you get there. What matters is that you, you know, you fall in love with it and, and you won.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: Yeah. It doesn't matter how you get there, but the fact that you got

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Exactly.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: and you're

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Yeah. Yeah.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: gonna take, you're gonna take your memories back with you. [01:16:00] Amazing. Susan, um, shifting gears a little bit, um, you know, going a little bit into your origins,

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Into my, I'm sorry

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: into your, uh, origins,

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: or, okay. Yes.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: into your, into, you know, and, and, um, you, you, you're such a good, uh, you're such a gifted storyteller, but you're also willing to be just candid and vulnerable about your story, and you are. Opening chapters bring out your, your journey so vividly in, in your book. And so, um, you know, you have done some of these kayak trips, but you talked [01:17:00] about how your father's or your family's trauma created this hard boundary for your family. you talk about how you and your siblings for forbidden to even go near

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Yes, yes.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: So simple but obvious question, how did you move from being banned from the shoreline to building your life around it?

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Yeah. Well, it was, so I just had, I had an older brother who was about nine years older than me. Um, and that was the first, um, discrepancy that I noticed that made me just such a defiant little shit because I was like, my parents didn't encourage, like you went to school to learn. Right. And they, they didn't really encourage, like developing me developing into [01:18:00] this, you know, strong.

A capable woman and, and they discouraged sports, really. Like I grew up on a, on a 500 acre farm, which that encouraged like just me. I was given the ability to wander and, and get lost and that sort of thing. But as far as like developing any athleticism in sports, they just discouraged that. And they actually forbid me to stay after school, to go after to, to do some of the, you know, track and cross country and basketball and all that, which I did anyway.

I, I was terrible at everything. Um, but so when I was, I was probably close to four and my five-year-old cousin drowned in a nearby river, so that's why I was forbidden to go near water. And I, I think my parents just didn't want me to suffer from the same demise. Um, but you know, I always joke like, what happens when you tell a child not to do something right?

It was like, as if from that point forward, I was drawn to water. I don't [01:19:00] know if it was because I wanted to defy them, but I, it is just in my nature. I just was enamored by the creeks and the ponds that flowed through that 500 acre farm. And so when my parents weren't looking, where do you think I went? I went right to those bodies of water and plate.

I'd bring my little toy boats and watched, watched them tumble down the creeks. I had a little RAF that I stashed, um, be below one of the ponds there, and I would always go out and fish and had a little fishing rod and, and, um, yeah, it just, it was like this magnetic force. And so when I was out of the house, I, first thing I did in college was I got involved with crazy adrenaline pumping whitewater rafting and then whitewater kayaking.

And, you know, from, from there there was just, there was just no stopping me. And it was. When I eventually discovered the longer sleeker sea kayaks and [01:20:00] realized that, hey, these, these vessels have watertight hatches where you can put, you know all of your gear and disappear for, you know, days, weeks, and what would eventually become for me, months, months at a time.

I mean, that, that was the big gear changer or game changer, sorry. But I think it just goes back to my, my personality is I'm just very stubborn and very defiant. Um, and I think that was just kind of curated by how my parents, you know, they, they told me, you're a girl for, that was the other thing that really pissed me off.

I watched my older brother and all my male cousins, they could do anything. They would go off on these bike rides and then it became mini bikes and snowmobiles and, you know, whatever they would do, they could do it. It was okay, but I couldn't do it because I was a girl. And

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: Wow.

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: what I think that molded me into, you know, who I am now.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: So classic. Yeah. You keep, you keep [01:21:00] somebody from like getting into the cookie jar on the top

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Yeah.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: and that's the very first thing that they will, uh, they will get into.

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Mm-hmm.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: I understand your father is no longer with

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Correct.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: but if he knows what have accomplished the life you have built around the ocean, would he be proud of you?

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Hmm. I think on some levels, yeah, like, like my mother, my mother was still alive when I did the first trip, but, um, I didn't tell her until after the fact. I didn't, she had all kinds of health problems and I just was afraid it was gonna really stress her out. But I told her when I returned, and, um, but. She just, I don't think she ever really got it.

You know, she just thought I went on this kayak trip. She didn't, and I didn't really explain it to her. And of course I didn't. Um, she [01:22:00] never read the book because as you've seen, I did a fair bit of, you know, family disclosure in there that she wouldn't want to read. Um, and so, yeah, I just, she didn't get it.

But would my father have, uh, 'cause he was, he, he was in the army, uh, and he spent a lot of time on ships and so I think he would kind of get that seafaring part of it and what, what that entailed. Yeah. That's a, that's a one question that someone no one has ever asked me before. I love it.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: And I am also curious, you know, this, this drive that you have and this, this maybe chutzpah, you know, to go out and chase these audacious goals. I'm also wondering. If again, like you've [01:23:00] had by all accounts, a tough childhood and obviously you, you know, you had the resilience there, were there probably a couple of ways that could have gone, either you would never go to the water and never do these things, or maybe the best outcome, which is this, this life you have built. And I'm wondering, do you think that that has actually also been a motivator that has, that keeps pushing you to achieve these things? Maybe because, because you didn't have that available, maybe because people told you that it wasn't

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Mm-hmm.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: Or maybe even that, you know, as a, as a, as a, as a kid, you were not good at the sports and there is this desire to prove yourself.

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: [01:24:00] I don't know if it's so much that, but I think like, yeah, I, I sucked at sports. I, I was that kid that was like picked next to last by the, you know, the team coaches. It was mortifying, you know, it did nothing for my self-confidence, which was already pretty shattered. But once I first slithered my hips into a sea kayak, that's when I realized it's like, and I, I wouldn't say I immediately excelled at it, but I took to it pretty quickly.

I had really good balance. And then that's when I realized I have, you know, this endurance. I am just wired this point to point perspective of just. You know, going, going and going. And, and so it's not so much that I have something to prove, but it's just, it's just I finally found my thing, like my passion, you know, something that I could actually do and I could do it well, and then I could share it with others.

And it just grew into this thing where now I'm mentoring, I take great joy in [01:25:00] mentoring, um, younger people to, to have very similar, similar, you know, experiences. Case in point right now, there was a young German woman, she's 32, and she purchased one of my sea kayaks and, uh, from me, um, the one that I took on the 2022 Expedition.

So the joke is it knows the way. And, uh, she's paddling inside passage. She is probably three to four weeks out from Skagway, from, from the finish line. So she's, she's making really good progress. I've been mentoring her from, from the get-go. Um, yeah, it's just, it's just. It, it warms my heart and it just makes me feel like it's another way of me giving back of, you know, paying it forward.

So,

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: Just the same way you were inspired by Aubrey,

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Yes.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: you are passing on the baton.

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Exactly. Exactly. I love that.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: [01:26:00] For those of us who have, let's say, never been on a cac, I feel I've been fortunate. I have tasted, the joy, uh. I went to grad school in Florida and I had some beautiful kayak trips, including like a kayak packing

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Nice.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: down in the Keys.

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Hmm.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: Nothing like Alaska,

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: water though.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: it was, it was beautiful for me back then.

And, you know, camping on like those hotels and then waking up and jumping in the water again, like the places it takes

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Yes.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: You cannot get to those places. Um, otherwise, for those listening who haven't kayaking as an escape, as as recreation, why should people try it?

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Why should people try it? Um, I think as you just so eloquently explained, it can take you to [01:27:00] places where so many other people cannot go. Right. The kayaks, all they need is like a foot of water. It's referred to as draft, and so the, the bigger boats can't go. Um, there even some of the smaller boats, the, the, the little nooks and crannies, and that's one thing that I love about the sport of kayaking.

I refer to it as a layered sport. It could be really anything you want it to be. It can be. Long distance expedition paddling could just be poking around in nooks and crannies island hopping in warm waters. Uh, it could be racing, surfing, um, uh,

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: It

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: white water kayaking. It's just, it's, it's just working on all the fancy maneuvers, the rolls and the rescues and, you know, all, all those things.

It's just, it's really whatever you want it to be. And for me, I find it very centering. Um, just very balancing, like literally and figuratively, you know.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: Yes. [01:28:00] Literally and figuratively. Indeed. And, uh, well, one thing I know that, you know, back when I and did some kayaking, you know, we, we had those bigger boats, we had to load them and strap them on the top of our cards. again, technology has come a long way. A couple of years ago, I and shipped an aru

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Mm-hmm.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: for a friend of mine, Mohe, who lives in India and who's trying to do some, like first descents in the Himalayas. yeah, you don't need to make space in your, in your overloaded garage for a big

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Mm-hmm.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: you can get like a small kayak that can fit in a backpack.

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: The, or was they, they, they pack up like that, almost like a suitcase.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: Exactly.

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Or like Audrey did with the inflatable. You could just

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: Yes,

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: it up and suck it [01:29:00] under your armpit and hitchhike is what she did.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: Yeah. So I, I think as an activity, it, it's, it's way more approachable than people think it is. And I, I think anybody can kayak, right?

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Yeah. I,

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: sure you would be the first person to, uh, you don't have to be a, a huge

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: not at all. I always say minutes to learn, a lifetime to master, like, like any sport really. Right?

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: does one need to be a great swimmer.

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: No. Um, actually conversely, uh, the, we always say, and this is more for extreme kayaking, but you know, your swimming ability has zero, uh, nothing to do with your chances of survival if you were to capsize and lose. Contact with, with your boat. Um, there's been, if you look at the, the research and the, um, the anthologies of kayaking tragedies, um, people have drowned.

It is usually hypothermia. The first thing that's gonna [01:30:00] get you just like 20, 30 feet from shore. So it's really more, um, we always preach, wear your life jacket, your PFD, your personal fadation. That's, that's your buddy. Um, and then the first thing that is drilled into you, especially if you start with a whitewater background.

If you've capsized, you never, ever, ever, ever let go of your boat and your paddle, it's just drilled. It's like your knee jerk reaction no matter what the conditions you flip, you miss your roll. Maybe you don't know how to roll, but rolls fail. I'm here to tell you they fail at the most inopportune times.

So you just, you've got your boat, you've got your paddle, you've practiced in real conditions. You know how to get your butt back in that boat or you know how to rescue. Somebody else. And that's a big piece of advice I would give people that wanna get into the sport, is take professional instruction.

Because the, these certified, um, coaches will intentionally put you in, um, like controlled scenarios where, um, [01:31:00] they'll have you team up and they'll create these scenarios where people will flip you, they'll ask you to flip, they'll, they'll tell your paddling buddy to intentionally let go of their paddle, let go of their boat, feign a shoulder injury, feign hypothermia, unconsciousness, what, whatever, all these different scenarios.

And you have to be a problem solvers like, if this were the real deal, how am I going to, you know, how am I gonna fix this? And it's, it's, they're, they're really fun. Drills to, to practice and they're in real water, you know, real like tidal, tidal streams or bigger waves or whatever. But it, it's in an area where the coaches can come in if things go a little sideways, they can call it and put everybody back in a nice little tidy bunch.

So I've learned so much e even as an advanced paddler, I still continue to take these, these coaching scenarios to keep those skills refined. 'cause so many things can go wrong and, and go wrong so quickly. So it [01:32:00] just needs to be like a, a knee jerk reaction. But for the most part, you know, it's like going back to this magic carpet ride.

It's just, you know, paddling along and letting the scenery go by seeing the occasional whale and hopefully no bears when you're on shore and just having this magical experience. And it's, you know, from a aging perspective, it's, it's. What's the, it's lower impact. Like I really don't whitewater kayak anymore because the capsizing can be really, you know, um, jarring on, on your body and, and, um, so yeah, I think sea kayaking for the most part is just gentler on the body.

It's, it's a slower pace if, if you want it to be. And, uh, yeah. It's just, it's a lovely adventure package.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: And yes, if you want to the inside passage or do something equally serious, yes, there are probably a lot of like stepping

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Mm-hmm.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: but to simply get like a [01:33:00] sit

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Mm-hmm.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: and go and

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Oh yeah.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: in your, in your local

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Yep.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: you can probably do that even without advanced instruction. You

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: sure.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: PFT on you and, uh, you can still be out there, uh, in the middle of a lake and it's beautiful.

Like it doesn't have, even if you don't see orcas, seeing like the

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Yes.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: Yeah, I mean, I, I, I, yeah, kayaking is awesome. Moving on. Um, so, you know, this is the Ageless Athlete Podcast, and What has this lifestyle and maybe these long solo journeys, What has that taught you about staying ageless,

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Staying. Staying

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: ageless.

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: huh? Oh, what has it taught me about staying ageless? I think just following your passion, right? Just doing something that you just love [01:34:00] and, and you feel like it's giving you something and it helps you give others something. That, that's what keeps me young at heart. And it's like when I.

Like when I look in the mirror and I'm like, oh God, this aging thing is happening. Right. Some days worse than others. I, I remind myself that, that like, not everybody gets to age, right? Like, aging is a privilege. Like we've all lost people close to us who have died, you know, much, much too young, right? And so getting older is a privilege.

And so that reinstates my belief, belief is the wrong word, but just my, my desire to wanna keep doing what I'm doing, maybe, um, it's not, the intensity is definitely being taken down a notch, but, you know, just. It's so important to treat your body like it's the only one you have because Right. It, it is the only [01:35:00] one you have.

So, you know, taking care, taking care of yourself, and eating right, and exercising and getting out in nature and, and all of that stuff that is just driven home. That point has been driven home to me over and over and over because of all the time that I've spent out there.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: Susan, I'm guessing if somebody had asked you this question when you finished first crossing at 49, if you were gonna do this again at like a dozen years later, am guessing you might have said no. So now you have done this, maybe even surprised yourself a

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Mm-hmm.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: So I'm just wondering, what is it about your life a dozen years from now you don't think is possible [01:36:00] when you look into the

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Hmm. 12 years into the futures.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: And, and where you might surprise yourself again.

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Yeah. So then I, I would be 76, 12 years into the future. Um, yeah, I, I see myself as still paddling, you know, and I remind myself a Audrey was, I had this image of her, um, holding up this map, and she was 76 at the time, and it was a foldout map of the inside passage. And she had inked in all the routes that she had paddled to date.

Like, so drew in with a Sharpie, like all, everything she paddled around island. She circumnavigated the inside passage multiple times. You know, she wasn't a linear paddle so much like me, she just explored all these different areas and I would always say she was only 76 when that photo was taken. And she still had another, about another decade of paddling to do before she laid [01:37:00] her paddle down for good.

And that's, that's what I aspire to. I don't know if I have her genetics, um, but that's something that I definitely aspire to. But you know, if it's not paddling, it's gonna be something else. Whether it's cycling, get starting to get into the e-bike scene and doing long distance, e biking, um, yeah, uh, hiking, skiing, you know, just, just being outdoors, I think.

And riding, riding and inspiring others to, to do the same.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: Well, talking of writing again inside a a marvelous

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Thank you.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: I encourage everybody listening to find a copy. Where is the best place for people listening to go find inside and maybe. The [01:38:00] other books that you've written in a way that benefits you or your causes the most?

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Yeah. Well, um, the, the best way is just to go to my website, Susan Marie Conrad dot com, and there's a real obvious book link on the website. And, uh, from there you can order directly on my website. From my website from, comes right here from my office. I'll mail it out. There's a. In the checkout pain, there's a little, um, area where you can put a note, like if you want me to inscribe it to anybody specific.

Um, and so then, uh, so I have the, the memoir, the Adventure Memoir from the first trip. I'm working on the book about the, this more recent trip that's still a work in progress, but, um, my COVID project was, uh, I created a kid's book that is adapted from that true story. And so it's also available on my website.

And then, um, I recently came out [01:39:00] with an inside passage, um, photo essay book. So it's called Wildly Inside A Visual Journey Through The Inside Passage. And that was my ploy to, um, get some of the, I took like, I dunno, 5,000 images and videos on both expeditions and. You know, I share like maybe a hundred in my slideshows and there's maybe a dozen in, in, in the memoir.

So this was my way to get some of those out of my computer and, and out into the world. So it it, it's a beautiful photo essay book of the inside passage. It goes by the ecosystem. It's just like I paddled at the Sailor Sea, the Great Barrier Rain Forest, and then coastal southeast Alaska with just some fun facts and enough verbiage.

And $1 of every book sale goes to support Pacific Wild. So that's, that's really important too. So, yeah. And, and there are also, you can ask your local bookstore to stop them. I always encourage people to shop locally. It's available on Amazon. [01:40:00] Um, the memoir is, um, the other two books are not just the memoir.

So your library, your local library, Kindle, it's available on Kindle.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: Beautiful. Yes. Not only do you write evocatively, you also take really nice pictures.

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: you.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: We will make sure to put links to your website where people can learn more about the work you're

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Okay.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: and also your books and your photos on the show notes. Any parting words you want to leave us with?

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Hmm. Any parting words? Just, you know, get out there and do that thing, you know, do the thing that gives you joy, right? You'll either find a way or you'll find an excuse is what I always say. So [01:41:00] find a way.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: Yes.

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: a way.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: Yes. Well, if, yeah, I can't think of a, of, of a, of a better person to say those words. that thing because Susan, you went and you did that thing, and you did that thing twice and you keep doing it day in, day out. Thank you so much for coming on the be available in our youth.

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Say again?

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: that would, that to, you know, to have the patience of our middle

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Yes.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: the patience and the experience and the lessons, and have those be available in our youth,

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Hmm.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: that would, that

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Would that be nice?

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: anyway, wouldn't that be nice? Exactly. other thing I wanted to explore with you, you, you know, you bring this really unique perspective, those of us who are fortunate and skilled, if I add to do these big [01:42:00] expeditions, you know, you might go and, you know, climb this, you know, some big, some big Himalayan peak once, right? You might go and, uh, some other type of activity once

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Mm-hmm.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: Most people who will kayak the inside passage will likely not repeat it, but you have this really unique vantage point. You went and did it once and you went back

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Hmm.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: and did it again. And you know, we live in this period as a period of hastened climate change. And people will read about it, but many people will, most of us will never ex, at least in the West, let's say, will never experience the immediate impact the [01:43:00] ecosystems that you paddle through. Rich in biodiversity, but also very fragile.

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Yes. I.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: So. What changes did you notice, Susan, in the land or the water that felt off?

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Yeah, that's, that's, that was another, like the whole. Environmental part of it and, and wanting to raise awareness, um, for these fragile marina ecosystems that I was padding through was the second big impetus for the second trip. In addition to Audrey wanting to recreate her route and, and, and, you know, portray her as not only this legend, you know, this amazing woman that she was and this legend she came to be.

I also, the second time around, I wanted it to be more than just me, you know, in a kayak [01:44:00] plying the coastline of Western North America. And I, so I wanted to give back to the inside passage, and I mentioned the Great Bear Rainforest, which, you know, I, I said is the largest intact temperate rainforest on Earth.

And on that first trip, I learned about a conservation. Organization known as Pacific Wild, and it, it's a small nonprofit and uh, the couple that started this, um, a little over a decade ago, pretty much de dedicated their lives to protecting and advocating for the Great Bear Rainforest. And I've been supporting their work and following their work for quite some time by that point.

And so I reached out to them and we had this conversation of how we could possibly collaborate and bring, you know, make my expedition serve as a platform of sorts to raise awareness for the work that they do, the pivotal work they do for the Great Bear Rainforest. So it ended up [01:45:00] being this amazing collaboration where they, and it was just for that section, so it was about.

Uh, I think it was about 250 miles of the 1200 mile rat, where I'm paddling along this coastline, the, the Great Bear Rainforest. So they set me up with a, um, uh, portable about the size of a iPad, a connectivity device, so that every day I could send them data, I could send them short videos, I could send them, uh, photos, journal entries, voice memos, and just of my experience being the eyes, ears, and voice of the great barrier rainforest and what, what I'm seeing, what I'm feeling.

Um, so I would document trash, you know, single use, plastic, derelict fishing gear, things like that, being washed up on the beaches. Um, fish farms, if I saw trawlers out there that literally rake the bottom of our oceans and devoid, you know, of all biodiversity down there. Just tragic [01:46:00] things like that. So I was documenting all this and what they in turn did was create this.

This dynamic story map, um, that brought my journey to life while it was underway. So, you know, story maps are, they're essentially websites, interactive websites where people can follow along in real time. As I'm working my way up, you know, the, this ecosystem. And so the Pacific Wild Team, they would put maps in there.

Of course they would have the videos and photos, um, that I submitted and whatever I'm sending them, and then they would incorporate all the scientific components into it. So they're educating people about these systems as these fragile areas as I'm paddling through them. And just raising awareness also was a fundraising effort.

We raised $40,000 and that was all funneled back into Pacific Wilds Marine Protection campaign. So that was a, that was a huge part of the journey and it just raised my own awareness, [01:47:00] like I am, you know, keyed into. Like seeing plastic washed up on the beaches and you know, just things like that. That was a, the biggest difference that I noticed between the two expedition was just more, more things that didn't belong.

Right. That's what you

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: Oh

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: picks up on. You see color and it's a, you know, a washed up, you know, buoy or some sort of plastic or something like that. Yeah. Um,

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: That is.

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: oh, I'm sorry.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: Yeah, no, I was saying am a little bit surprised by that, um, by the impact of that observation. I thought the primary observations might be that maybe you saw less wildlife, maybe you saw less ice and snow cover.

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: That for sure. Yeah. I, I, the glaciers obviously are receding. Um, yeah. So [01:48:00] less ice, less um, more people, more garbage. Um, yeah. More degradation. Yeah.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: And I would also think that. You know, the Alaskan waters, I mean, they're such a heritage and, you know, whatever we do with our garbage and our plastic, we would try to keep them off our national

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Mm-hmm.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: And our, again, I would think that would not see them over there. know, we would see them maybe, you know, in, uh, other parts of the ocean where we have created landfills.

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Mm-hmm.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: But maybe what you're also pointing out is that, is that, you know, garbage has a way of appearing when you don't want it to appear. And plastic in particular, I, I think it's kind [01:49:00] of indestructible.

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: forever. Yeah. When you think about it,

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: Yeah.

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: plastic that's ever been made is, you know, it's gonna be here forever.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: Susan, you quote this idea that we protect what we

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Yes.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: and you say that, you know, we love we understand end. And I come back to like, can we make this relatable to the person? So how do the rest of us, how can we build that connection and appreciation of nature?

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: I think it's simply spending time in it, right? And immersing yourself in it. And it kind of circles back to one of your first questions about the, the cruise ships, you know, and like these thousands of people and me inspiring just a handful. And I think that what you were quo, how do I say [01:50:00] it? You. You only conserve what you love and you only love what you understand.

And I think that's my job right now. Maybe that's why I put on this earth, is it's my job to help people understand like why and how and all of that. Why, why these areas are fragile and what we can do to, you know, to, to protect them and to at least raise awareness and tell people, and, and I think it's just by spending time in nature, right?

You're, you're, you're just immediately, not everybody, but most people just feel this connection with it. And they want to just, just by virtue of that feeling connected and disconnected from everything else that they want to, you know, cherish and protect it. At least that's, that's my hope. And I think even if I'm just out of those 4,000 people on those ships, even if it's just a handful that get that takeaway message, then, then I've done my job.

So, and then [01:51:00] for, you know, for everybody else, for the, you know, the runners and the hikers and the climbers and the surfers and the kayakers. I, I think we're more tuned into that sort of thing anyway. And yeah, it's just spreading, spreading the words. Spreading the, spreading the love.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: And yeah, I mean, I can't agree more, but I think maybe to take that even further, I feel like one doesn't have to be an outer athlete

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: No, not at all.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: and, and you know, these large, large cruise ships, you know. Sure. I mean, to some degree, you know, they're. Criticism is valid. Yes. That they do produce a lot of pollution. I believe though, that if they allow more of us to the wild you don't have to be in a kayak to, to be riveted the site of, orca [01:52:00] playing with their pod and know, to code.

Like, like, yeah. I mean, we, we, we will not love what we understand until we actually appreciate it as

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Bingo. Yeah.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: And yeah, I mean it doesn't matter like how you experience

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Mm-hmm.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: like if you just get the chance to experience it at some

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Mm-hmm.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: You will want to protect it.

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Exactly. Yeah. And it doesn't matter, like with the inside passage or, or anywhere, is really, it doesn't matter how you get there. What matters is that you, you know, you fall in love with it and, and you won.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: Yeah. It doesn't matter how you get there, but the fact that you got

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Exactly.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: and you're

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Yeah. Yeah.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: gonna take, you're gonna take your memories back with you. Amazing. Susan, um, shifting gears a little bit, um, you know, going a little bit into [01:53:00] your origins,

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: ,

Or, okay. Yes.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: into your, into, you know, and, and, um, you, you're such a good, uh, you're such a gifted storyteller, but you're also willing to be just candid and vulnerable about your story, and you are. Opening chapters bring out your journey so vividly in, in your book. And you know, you have done some of these kayak trips, but you talked about how your father's or your family's trauma created this hard boundary for your family. you talk about how you and your siblings for forbidden to even go near

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Yes, yes.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: So simple [01:54:00] but obvious question, how did you move from being banned from the shoreline to building your life around it?

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Yeah. Well, it was, so I just had, I had an older brother who was about nine years older than me. Um, and that was the first, um, discrepancy that I noticed that made me just such a defiant little shit because I was like, my parents didn't encourage, like you went to school to learn. Right. And they, they didn't really encourage, like developing me developing into this, you know, strong.

A capable woman and, and they discouraged sports, really. Like I grew up on a, on a 500 acre farm, which that encouraged like just me. I was given the ability to wander and, and get lost and that sort of thing. But as far as like developing any athleticism in [01:55:00] sports, they just discouraged that. And they actually forbid me to stay after school, to go after to, to do some of the, you know, track and cross country and basketball and all that, which I did anyway.

I, I was terrible at everything. but so when I was, I was probably close to four and my five-year-old cousin drowned in a nearby river, so that's why I was forbidden to go near water. And I, I think my parents just didn't want me to suffer from the same demise. but you know, I always joke like, what happens when you tell a child not to do something right?

It was like, as if from that point forward, I was drawn to water. I don't know if it was because I wanted to defy them, but I, it is just in my nature. I just was enamored by the creeks and the ponds that flowed through that 500 acre farm. And so when my parents weren't looking, where do you think I went? I went right to those bodies of water and plate.

I'd bring my little toy boats and watched, watched them tumble down the creeks. I had a little RAF that I [01:56:00] stashed, below one of the ponds there, and I would always go out and fish and had a little fishing rod and, yeah, it just, it was like this magnetic force. And so when I was out of the house, I, first thing I did in college was I got involved with crazy adrenaline pumping whitewater rafting and then whitewater kayaking.

And, you know, from, from there there was just, there was just no stopping me. And it was. When I eventually discovered the longer sleeker sea kayaks and realized that, hey, these, these vessels have watertight hatches where you can put, you know all of your gear and disappear for, you know, days, weeks, and what would eventually become for me, months, months at a time.

I mean, that, that was the big gear changer or game changer, sorry. But I think it just goes back to my, my personality is I'm just very stubborn and very defiant. Um, and I think that was just kind of curated by how my [01:57:00] parents, you know, they, they told me, you're a girl for, that was the other thing that really pissed me off.

I watched my older brother and all my male cousins, they could do anything. They would go off on these bike rides and then it became mini bikes and snowmobiles and, you know, whatever they would do, they could do it. It was okay, but I couldn't do it because I was a girl. And

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: Wow.

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: what I think that molded me into, you know, who I am now.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: So classic. Yeah. You keep, you keep somebody from like getting into the cookie jar on the top

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Yeah.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: and that's the very first thing that they will, uh, they will get into.

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Mm-hmm.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: I understand your father is no longer with

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Correct.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: but if he knows what have accomplished the life you have built around the ocean, would he be proud of you?

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: [01:58:00] Hmm. I think on some levels, yeah, like, like my mother, my mother was still alive when I did the first trip, but, I didn't tell her until after the fact. I didn't, she had all kinds of health problems and I just was afraid it was gonna really stress her out. But I told her when I returned, and, um, but. She just, I don't think she ever really got it.

You know, she just thought I went on this kayak trip. She didn't, and I didn't really explain it to her. And of course I didn't. she never read the book because as you've seen, I did a fair bit of, you know, family disclosure in there that she wouldn't want to read. and so, yeah, I just, she didn't get it.

But would my father have, uh, 'cause he was, he, he was in the army, and he spent a lot of time on ships and so I think he would kind of get that seafaring part of it and what, what that entailed. Yeah. That's a, that's a one question that [01:59:00] someone no one has ever asked me before. I love it.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: And I am also curious, you know, this, this drive that you have and this, this maybe chutzpah, you know, to go out and chase these audacious goals. I'm also wondering. If again, like you've had by all accounts, a tough childhood and obviously you, you had the resilience there, were there probably a couple of ways that could have gone, either you would never go to the water and never do these things, or maybe the best outcome, which is this, this life you have built. And I'm wondering, do you think that that has actually also been a motivator that has, that keeps pushing you to achieve these things? Maybe because, [02:00:00] because you didn't have that available, maybe because people told you that it wasn't

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Mm-hmm.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: Or maybe even that, you know, as a, as a kid, you were not good at the sports and there is this desire to prove yourself.

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: I don't know if it's so much that, but I think like, yeah, I, I sucked at sports. I, I was that kid that was like picked next to last by the, you know, the team coaches. It was mortifying, you know, it did nothing for my self-confidence, which was already pretty shattered. But once I first slithered my hips into a sea kayak, that's when I realized it's like, and I, I wouldn't say I immediately excelled at it, but I took to it pretty quickly.

I had really good balance. And then that's when I realized I have, you know, this endurance. I am just wired this point to point perspective of just. You know, going, going and going. And, and so it's not so much that I have something to prove, but it's just, [02:01:00] it's just I finally found my thing, like my passion, you know, something that I could actually do and I could do it well, and then I could share it with others.

And it just grew into this thing where now I'm mentoring, I take great joy in mentoring, younger people to, to have very similar, similar, you know, experiences. Case in point right now, there was a young German woman, she's 32, and she purchased one of my sea kayaks and, uh, from me, um, the one that I took on the 2022 Expedition.

So the joke is it knows the way. And, uh, she's paddling inside passage. She is probably three to four weeks out from Skagway, from, from the finish line. So she's, she's making really good progress. I've been mentoring her from, from the get-go. yeah, it's just, it warms my heart and it just makes me feel like it's another way of me giving back of, you know, paying it forward.

So,[02:02:00] 

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: Just the same way you were inspired by Aubrey,

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Yes.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: you are passing on the baton.

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Exactly. Exactly. I love that.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: For those of us who have, let's say, never been on a cac, I feel I've been fortunate. I have tasted, the joy, uh. I went to grad school in Florida and I had some beautiful kayak trips, including like a kayak packing

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Nice.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: down in the Keys.

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Hmm.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: Nothing like Alaska,

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: water though.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: it was, it was beautiful for me back then.

And, you know, camping on like those hotels and then waking up and jumping in the water again, like the places it takes

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Yes.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: You cannot get to those places. Um, otherwise, for those listening who haven't kayaking as an escape, as as recreation, [02:03:00] why should people try it?

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Why should people try it? Um, I think as you just so eloquently explained, it can take you to places where so many other people cannot go. Right. The kayaks, all they need is like a foot of water. It's referred to as draft, and so the, the bigger boats can't go. Um, there even some of the smaller boats, the, the, the little nooks and crannies, and that's one thing that I love about the sport of kayaking.

I refer to it as a layered sport. It could be really anything you want it to be. It can be. Long distance expedition paddling could just be poking around in nooks and crannies island hopping in warm waters. Uh, it could be racing, surfing, um, uh,

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: It

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: white water kayaking. It's just, it's, it's just working on all the fancy maneuvers, the rolls and the rescues and, you know, all, all those things.

It's just, it's really whatever you want it to be. [02:04:00] And for me, I find it very centering. Um, just very balancing, like literally and figuratively, you know.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: Yes. Literally and figuratively. Indeed. And, uh, well, one thing I know that, you know, back when I and did some kayaking, you know, we, we had those bigger boats, we had to load them and strap them on the top of our cards. again, technology has come a long way. A couple of years ago, I and shipped an aru

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Mm-hmm.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: for a friend of mine, Mohe, who lives in India and who's trying to do some, like first descents in the Himalayas. yeah, you don't need to make space in your, in your overloaded garage for a big

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Mm-hmm.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: you can get like a small kayak that can [02:05:00] fit in a backpack.

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: The, or was they, they, they pack up like that, almost like a suitcase.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: Exactly.

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Or like Audrey did with the inflatable. You could just

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: Yes,

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: it up and suck it under your armpit and hitchhike is what she did.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: Yeah. So I, I think as an activity, it, it's, it's way more approachable than people think it is. And I, I think anybody can kayak, right?

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Yeah. I,

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: sure you would be the first person to, uh, you don't have to be a, a huge

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: not at all. I always say minutes to learn, a lifetime to master, like, like any sport really. Right?

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: does one need to be a great swimmer.

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: No. actually conversely, uh, the, we always say, and this is more for extreme kayaking, but you know, your swimming ability has zero, uh, nothing to do with your chances of survival if you were to capsize and lose. Contact with, with your boat. Um, [02:06:00] there's been, if you look at the, the research and the, um, the anthologies of kayaking tragedies, um, people have drowned.

It is usually hypothermia. The first thing that's gonna get you just like 20, 30 feet from shore. So it's really more, we always preach, wear your life jacket, your PFD, your personal fadation. That's, that's your buddy. Um, and then the first thing that is drilled into you, especially if you start with a whitewater background.

If you've capsized, you never, ever, ever, ever let go of your boat and your paddle, it's just drilled. It's like your knee jerk reaction no matter what the conditions you flip, you miss your roll. Maybe you don't know how to roll, but rolls fail. I'm here to tell you they fail at the most inopportune times.

So you just, you've got your boat, you've got your paddle, you've practiced in real conditions. You know how to get your butt back in that boat or you know how to rescue. Somebody else. And that's a big piece of advice I would give people that wanna get into the sport, is take professional instruction.

[02:07:00] Because the, these certified, coaches will intentionally put you in, um, like controlled scenarios where, they'll have you team up and they'll create these scenarios where people will flip you, they'll ask you to flip, they'll, they'll tell your paddling buddy to intentionally let go of their paddle, let go of their boat, feign a shoulder injury, feign hypothermia, unconsciousness, what, whatever, all these different scenarios.

And you have to be a problem solvers like, if this were the real deal, how am I going to, you know, how am I gonna fix this? And it's, it's, they're, they're really fun. Drills to, to practice and they're in real water, you know, real like tidal, tidal streams or bigger waves or whatever. But it, it's in an area where the coaches can come in if things go a little sideways, they can call it and put everybody back in a nice little tidy bunch.

So I've learned so much e even as an advanced paddler, I still continue to take [02:08:00] these, these coaching scenarios to keep those skills refined. 'cause so many things can go wrong and, and go wrong so quickly. So it just needs to be like a, a knee jerk reaction. But for the most part, you know, it's like going back to this magic carpet ride.

It's just, you know, paddling along and letting the scenery go by seeing the occasional whale and hopefully no bears when you're on shore and just having this magical experience. And it's, you know, from a aging perspective, it's, What's the, it's lower impact. Like I really don't whitewater kayak anymore because the capsizing can be really, you know, um, jarring on, on your body and, and, so yeah, I think sea kayaking for the most part is just gentler on the body.

It's, it's a slower pace if, if you want it to be. And, uh, yeah. It's just, it's a lovely adventure package.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: And yes, if you want to the inside [02:09:00] passage or do something equally serious, yes, there are probably a lot of like stepping

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Mm-hmm.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: but to simply get like a sit

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Mm-hmm.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: and go and

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Oh yeah.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: in your, in your local

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Yep.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: you can probably do that even without advanced instruction. You

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: sure.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: PFT on you and, uh, you can still be out there, uh, in the middle of a lake and it's beautiful.

Like it doesn't have, even if you don't see orcas, seeing like the

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Yes.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: yeah, kayaking is awesome. Moving on. Um, so, you know, this is the Ageless Athlete Podcast, and what has this lifestyle and maybe these long solo journeys, what has that taught you about staying ageless,

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Staying. Staying

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: ageless.

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: huh? Oh, what has it taught me about staying ageless? I think just following your passion, right? Just doing something that you [02:10:00] just love and, and you feel like it's giving you something and it helps you give others something. That, that's what keeps me young at heart. And it's like when I.

Like when I look in the mirror and I'm like, oh God, this aging thing is happening. Right. Some days worse than others. I, I remind myself that, that like, not everybody gets to age, right? Like, aging is a privilege. Like we've all lost people close to us who have died, you know, much, much too young, right? And so getting older is a privilege.

And so that reinstates my belief, belief is the wrong word, but just my, my desire to wanna keep doing what I'm doing, maybe, um, it's not, the intensity is definitely being taken down a notch, but, you know, just. It's so important to treat your body like it's the only one you have because [02:11:00] Right. It, it is the only one you have.

So, you know, taking care, taking care of yourself, and eating right, and exercising and getting out in nature and, and all of that stuff that is just driven home. That point has been driven home to me over and over and over because of all the time that I've spent out there.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: Susan, I'm guessing if somebody had asked you this question when you finished first crossing at 49, if you were gonna do this again at like a dozen years later, am guessing you might have said no. So now you have done this, maybe even surprised yourself a

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Mm-hmm.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: So I'm just wondering, what is it about your life a dozen years from now you don't think is possible when you look [02:12:00] into the

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Hmm. 12 years into the futures.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: And, and where you might surprise yourself again.

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Yeah. So then I, I would be 76, 12 years into the future. Um, yeah, I, I see myself as still paddling, you know, and I remind myself a Audrey was, I had this image of her, um, holding up this map, and she was 76 at the time, and it was a foldout map of the inside passage. And she had inked in all the routes that she had paddled to date.

Like, so drew in with a Sharpie, like all, everything she paddled around island. She circumnavigated the inside passage multiple times. You know, she wasn't a linear paddle so much like me, she just explored all these different areas and I would always say she was only 76 when that photo was taken. And she still had another, about another decade of paddling to do before she laid her paddle down for good.

And [02:13:00] that's, that's what I aspire to. I don't know if I have her genetics, but that's something that I definitely aspire to. But you know, if it's not paddling, it's gonna be something else. Whether it's cycling, get starting to get into the e-bike scene and doing long distance, e biking, yeah, uh, hiking, skiing, you know, just, just being outdoors, I think.

And riding, riding and inspiring others to, to do the same.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: Well, talking of writing again inside a a marvelous

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Thank you.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: I encourage everybody listening to find a copy. Where is the best place for people listening to go find inside and maybe. The other books that you've written in a way that benefits you or your [02:14:00] causes the most?

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Yeah. Well, um, the, the best way is just to go to my website, Susan Marie Conrad dot com, and there's a real obvious book link on the website. And, uh, from there you can order directly on my website. From my website from, comes right here from my office. I'll mail it out. There's a. In the checkout pain, there's a little, area where you can put a note, like if you want me to inscribe it to anybody specific.

and so then, uh, so I have the, the memoir, the Adventure Memoir from the first trip. I'm working on the book about the, this more recent trip that's still a work in progress, but, um, my COVID project was, uh, I created a kid's book that is adapted from that true story. And so it's also available on my website.

And then, um, I recently came out with an inside passage, um, photo essay book. So it's called Wildly Inside A Visual Journey Through The Inside Passage. [02:15:00] And that was my ploy to, um, get some of the, I took like, I dunno, 5,000 images and videos on both expeditions and. You know, I share like maybe a hundred in my slideshows and there's maybe a dozen in, in, in the memoir.

So this was my way to get some of those out of my computer and, and out into the world. So it it, it's a beautiful photo essay book of the inside passage. It goes by the ecosystem. It's just like I paddled at the Sailor Sea, the Great Barrier Rain Forest, and then coastal southeast Alaska with just some fun facts and enough verbiage.

And $1 of every book sale goes to support Pacific Wild. So that's, that's really important too. So, yeah. And, and there are also, you can ask your local bookstore to stop them. I always encourage people to shop locally. It's available on Amazon. Um, the memoir is, um, the other two books are not just the memoir.

So your library, your local library, [02:16:00] Kindle, it's available on Kindle.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: Beautiful. Yes. Not only do you write evocatively, you also take really nice pictures.

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: you.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: We will make sure to put links to your website where people can learn more about the work you're

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Okay.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: and also your books and your photos on the show notes. Any parting words you want to leave us with?

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Hmm. Any parting words? Just, you know, get out there and do that thing, you know, do the thing that gives you joy, right? You'll either find a way or you'll find an excuse is what I always say. So find a way.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: Yes.

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: a way.

kush--he-him-_1_07-03-2025_110212: Yes. Well, if, yeah, I can't think of [02:17:00] a, of, of a, of a better person to say those words. that thing because Susan, you went and you did that thing, and you did that thing twice and you keep doing it day in, day out. Thank you so much for coming on the show

susan_1_07-03-2025_100212: Hmm, oceans of gratitude for having me Kush. Thank you.​