Ice Water, Shark Teeth, and the Longest Battle of Her Life: At 59, Charlotte Brynn Shares Her Path to Flow and Mastery

Ageless Athlete Recording - Charlotte Brynn
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Kush: [00:00:00] Charlotte, I always start off with asking this question, which is, um, where are you right now and what did you have for breakfast this morning? 

Charlotte: I am, located right now on the shores of Lake Min for Mago, which is at 25 Mile Long Lake in Vermont and it borders Canada, so it's an international lake.

There's five miles in the US and the remaining 20 miles are in Canada and the town is called Newport. And I also spend time Insto Vermont, which is about an hour away, which is a mountain town. And for breakfast I had four eggs and six rashes of Turkey bacon, a piece of toast with peanut butter and a cup of tea.

Kush: That sounds like a beautiful place to have a very, uh, satisfying breakfast. Yes. And you spoke about. This lake that you are next to. [00:01:00] And uh, was that, uh, breakfast a reward for an early morning swim? 

Charlotte: That was before the swim. 

Kush: Oh, wow. Yeah. Yeah. 

Charlotte: That was So you fuel up, 

Kush: you fuel up before? Uh, 

Charlotte: I do. Yeah. I do. And I, I really, I think we all learn what we, um, run well on as far as what, what fuels us well in the tank.

And eggs sit really well for me. I grew up in that time where we were often told, don't eat before you swim. that's not necessarily true for everybody. So I, uh, I eat and go or I swim and eat at the same time. So that was my breakfast. 

Kush: Sure, sure. No, I'm sure there, there, there have been some hard earned lessons.

Yes. In eating. Strategies. 

Charlotte: Definitely it's ever changing, I think for all of us on that. But that was my breakfast. [00:02:00] It was delicious. And then when I got back from my swim, I swam about five kilometers when I got back from my swim. I had, uh, additional little breakfast and yeah, then off for the rest of the day.

Kush: Lovely. You actually preempted one of my questions, which was, as an open water swimmer, sometimes I presume you guys will just default to living by the coast. Yeah. And what doesn't think of the state of Vermont? , In my, in my, uh, let's say ignorance as a place for somebody like yourself, but the fact that you are by this beautiful body of water, I think that mm-hmm.

That, explains a lot. The other thing which was interesting is you mentioned that. Most of this lake, the majority is in Canada. And I guess it makes sense, you know, in everything is just bigger in Canada, like Yeah, the mountains. The mountains, the land, and even the [00:03:00] lakes. do you ever find, like when you are swimming, do you, are you able to stay within the national borders or do you, I don't know, do you end up in Canada?

Sometimes. 

Charlotte: I love going over the border. It's my favorite to swim over the border. if the conditions permit and I've got someone out there with me. and that could be, a great friend in a kayak. It might be someone motoring a boat beside me so that I've got protection from other boats.

I love swimming across the border and around, there's an island called Province Island and it's, uh, privately owned and it's a bird hunting island, so it's a club that stocks it with, um, pheasants and Guinea. He, and they hunt up there in the fall and in the rest of the year it's c take, you know, there's a caretaker on the island and it's quite beautiful, a lot of bird life.

There are some eagles at nest there, so I love swimming up and around that island. And then back around some other smaller [00:04:00] islands. On the US side, it's about 10 miles and it's really pretty. And if you, um, you can cross the border. Come back in as long as you don't touch land or get into a boat or off a boat.

So, you know, you can freely swim around there, which is really nice. But if you are swimming point to point or coming out on land, then you need to deal with the, um, border crossing requirements. 

Kush: Oh, wow. okay. That, that helps me understand that bit. Yeah. And it sounds like there's, I'm sure there are times when you're swimming and you might feel, additional fatigue and maybe the times when you might wanna start, but there's now this.

this pressure that you kind have to get back, that's right to side because you, if you, if you set foot, it could lead to all kinds of complications. 

Charlotte: Yes, yes. And it has one time in the past, and I did, I did end up on the Canadian side without any identification and on land. And, the question asked was, [00:05:00] do you often swim out here in the night with, uh, any id?

And I'm like, sometimes Wow. And they actually very graciously, did bring me and a couple of other people back in, through Canada and into the us So that was, that was pretty funny. But, um, most of the time it's, it's pretty, it's pretty good. I'm very conscious, um, about taking my ID and stuff with me now, but it's a lot of fun.

I love swimming to another state or another country. It's really good. I dunno, there's like an edited excitement because the border is marked by a, a gap in the tree line, which they call it a slash and it might be. Five to 10 meters wide, so you can see it from the water. And then there'll be some, um, border boys, large white boys, so you know, that you've gone across.

So it's something really cool that you take three or four strokes. And I'm in Canada where you swim there. Wow. I'm in the USA and it's really, really neat. [00:06:00] But, uh, yeah, I try not to take it for granted. It's a special treat to do a swim like that, but it is, it is fun going from, you know, one country to another.

Kush: Yeah. Fascinating. Indeed. I have to ask, how or what temperature is this particular. Maybe this time of the year that you were swimming in this morning? 

Charlotte: At the moment it's 73 and, um, which is, its warmest. It's, you know, I think 73 to 75. Maybe it can go a little bit higher for a short period of the summer.

And then, it normally ices over, uh, late December and so then it's pretty thick ice. There's not much happening then, but we will, you know, a couple of us will keep swimming with short dips in there for winter swimming. And that might be five to 20 minutes in, anywhere from 32 to 40 degrees. And then it ices out in April.

And normally, um. [00:07:00] When it ices out, it normally bumps up into the upper thirties pretty quickly, and by May, late May, you are looking at, mid to upper fifties on that. So it has a big, wide swing on it. But there are, you know, the state I live in, there are other smaller lakes that can heat faster and cool faster.

So there's, there's a variety of stuff. And uh, when I first moved to Vermont, I moved here a little over 20. It'd be 27 years ago. And I moved from New Zealand, which is a coastal living, and I found it very hard being in a landlocked state. And as you were mentioning before, it was like there's no ocean or sea.

And then I really discovered the love of lake swimming and just generally being out in nature on the lake. It's very changeable, it's very soothing. It's very humbling to see how wind can kick it up. The [00:08:00] wildlife, whether it's the birds fishing or it's just, it's really neat. So I do really appreciate it and I find it sets my day up pretty well.

Um, and in addition, you know, I like to have a goal to train towards, and that's part of my journey is swimming in the lake or a pool depending on it. The lake's frozen. 

Kush: Yes, Vermont might be inland, but it certainly. Has this wide spectrum of seasons. Does. Yeah. So, yeah. If, if, yeah.

One is looking for adventure and extreme conditions. Mm-hmm. One can be up in Vermont and 72 degrees, you know, sounds, it's not like, it's not bath water warm, but it sounds, seems, yeah. It seems very balmy. Doable. Yeah. Compared to, compared to some of the types of swims you are known for. [00:09:00] And Yeah. When I was learning about you and I learned that you are one of the rare people to complete an ice water swim.

I mean, I, yeah, I was, yeah. I was kind of blown away. I surf a bit, and for context, yeah, I, uh, surf mostly around Northern California, around the San Strat coastline, and the waters there can go down to the fifties, maybe late forties with, coal air, and I wear a wetsuit. So even though I'm in a wetsuit, yes, it can feel cold, but you are doing these ice swims.

And please tell us what is an ice swim? 

Charlotte: So, an ice smile is, it's, uh, it's an internationally recognized, swim or event. And it is a, uh, [00:10:00] mile in 41 degree water or less, wearing just a textile bathing suit. A, a non heat retaining swim cap, swim goggles, uh, and earplugs optional. And it is, it's very, very cold.

The, the, the density of the water is so heavy on your body and the temperature, although it's cold, it feels like it's burning your skin. And, so as a swimmer, I'm a lean swimmer and I don't have a lot of natural insulation to help me out. And so, uh, the reason I declared to do an I Smile was I had signed up for the English Channel in 2012, and I had failed it, and I'd got hypothermia, uh, about nine, nine and a half hours in.

I was gonna say, I pulled myself out of [00:11:00] the water, but I didn't, someone on the boat pulled me out of the water and I was devastated and not reaching my goal. So my mentor said, you know, Charlotte, there's warmest swims out there you could do. so I booked another channel slot and I decided I was going to up my game on adapting to cold water, which I found very, very hard.

And so, uh, it would've been easy to do it in a very, um, slow, gradual way, which I did, but I also committed myself to doing, I smile. And so all my training was geared towards swimming in the snow. Swimming when it was icy swimming, when it was a snarly wind and rough water. And even if I was in there for five or 10 minutes, I would, get myself to get in that water.

And the getting out was excruciating. It's very difficult getting in, stripping off those warm [00:12:00] clothes. And then you get yourself going then getting out. So as you're swimming your, um, your heart rate up and it's pumping blood around your body, and as your body adapts, it starts to, constrict the, the, uh, vessels in the extremities so that you're no longer shunting blood out to your fingers and your toes and your forearms and your lower legs.

And you are, you are really concentrating your bodies concentrating on keeping your trunk and your cognitive brain functioning. And so when you come out of the water from your swim. And it might be a biting cold wind. It's normally quite cold temperature when you stop moving, there is something called after drop where that cold water that's been in your limbs now starts moving through the rest of your body.

Your heart rate slowing down and, and what essentially happens is your body core temperature tanks even [00:13:00] further. And so it's learning that experience or gaining that, tools, that tools set of. When do I need to get out? So I have time to get myself stripped off my suit close on very quickly before I feel these effects of after drop.

And it varies on how people feel for me. and I lose dexterity, dexterity in my fingers. It's a lot harder to open a bag or do a zip up. Um, so I'd, when I come out of the water, I would try and get myself stripped and dressed within about 180 seconds tops. And if I was not doing that, it would take a month of Sundays for me to get it done and it would be extremely painful.

every time I would get in the water, it's not that it got easier, but when I slid under the surface and started swimming, my mind was a little less shocked. It was a little more familiar. So it still remained very, very uncomfortable. But I [00:14:00] learned through my breath and being familiar with the feeling that I could.

Almost get comfortable with that uncomfortable feeling. And then over time, I stretched the distance. I swam a little bit longer then it was time for the ice smile and it was incredibly hard. It was excruciating and it was exhilarating when I was done and warmed up. And, uh, someone had called a local, uh, TV crew and they came to interview when I finished and I'm like, we are gonna have to wait.

But I'm sure it was more like, oh God, wait, because my mouth was frozen so hard. I couldn't really articulate. But I did go on to do a second. I smile. I've done, um, a couple of, uh, international, um, world events, racing and the kilometer, and I think it's a, a combination of, it's an incredible. Feeling [00:15:00] of, endorphins rushing through your body.

And my daughter explains it really well. She said, you know, you could go for a 10 mile run or you could go do a five mile ice swim and you get similar mental effect. It's, um, it's very good. It's very soothing, it's very stress relieving generally. And there's been quite a lot of documented effects now.

Mainstream cold submersion quite common. Um, I started back in 2012 just to get ready for marathon swims. And, uh, so, so that was a story of, of how it all happened when I did mine. I think it was the 99th person in the world to complete one. There's many, many more people now. it's a really cool community.

It takes all, anyone's really, if you've, if you're in reasonable health. The water's very accepting to everybody, and that's sort of how the ice, the ice swimming goes. It's quite a big community now. They have world events where they race in open [00:16:00] water and in pools, and the longest distance they race is a kilometer.

So yeah, that's the story on ice swimming. It's pretty fascinating. 

Kush: Charlotte, you just blew my mind. Yeah. The this, this ice, this whole ice swimming thing seems insane. You know, as you were describing like just the, uh, protocol and getting into the water and then how getting out of the water is so fraught with, with risk.

I mean, my mind was going into like outer space where like I'm, I'm imagining like people preparing to like. I know being on a, on a spaceship and getting out on the surface of Mars and they have like this, uh, tiny window before their Yeah. Their body can't adapt or, or stops adapting. Right. the other thing you said, which Yeah, you, you threw a lot of uh, I guess a lot of breadcrumbs, but you also [00:17:00] spoke about how, how you could not complete one of your attempts at the English channel.

Correct. And per looks like one of the key blockers was the cold because you said you became hypothermic. Yes. So in order to, train yourself, you, in my layman's mind, you went the other extreme. Correct. You decided to like, yeah. Again, like this sounds like somebody you know, who may have, I don't know, failed at a marathon and then deciding to like run across the Sahara to just see if they could like get over that.

Correct. Where do you get that? I don't know if this is typical, like where do you get that mindset from? Like, like, are you gonna do this by doing this other thing? Which is like Right. Multiple ex harder. 

Charlotte: Yeah. I, I think it's from coming, growing up in an environment where when you take a fall, [00:18:00] you choose to dust yourself off and you get up one foot at a time and you go, I'm gonna have another crack at it.

And, um, I had a lot of attempts at the English channel. I had a, I had five attempts at the English channel and, uh, I've completed a lot of marathon swims around the world. And the reason for that was not that I wanted to do over 55 marathon swims. It was all in preparation for a goal. I set myself in 2010 and I, um, chased it relentlessly.

it really started with being really passionate about setting myself up for something that I wanted to chase with all my might. And it was a lot bigger loftier goal than I had ever imagined. And once I got my teeth into it, it, I had trained for two years and I had that, incomplete swim and, and I was [00:19:00] devastated.

it took me quite a long time to get the, my tail from out between my legs and be like, alright, I'm gonna have another go because I really believe I can do it, but I can't do it the way I did it last time I just don't have the tools in my toolbox. So I decided that I was gonna commit myself to the narst water.

I could find the roughest water, the coldest water, the longest swims, and I was gonna break them into components or little pieces that were manageable. So if I was, um, honing in on cold, it wouldn't necessarily be a long swim if I was going for a very long. Distance goal, I'd make it warmer water. And if it was really rough, I'd have some other people with me or someone who knew the area.

And then one by one I ticked those wee lists of things. And I would usually do it by entering or enrolling in [00:20:00] another swim. For example, I signed up to swim around the island of Manhattan, which is 28 miles. I signed up to swim the Catalina Channel. I signed up to swim around Atlantic City, and I sw signed up to Swim Lake George, and they were all really incredible in their own standalones.

Ultimate underlying goal was to build up my strength and increase my confidence because it wasn't just the cold, it was a combined fear of being cold and an internal fear of failure that I didn't let myself acknowledge and I didn't vocalize to other people. And when I actually vocalized that I am different and I train a little differently.

that whether I crossed the English channel or I finished a particular swim, didn't define who I was and [00:21:00] identified that I really loved the swimming, the community and the process. And it really opened up an additional joy for me. And on my, um, my final attempt at the channel, which was actually last year, 2024, took me 12 years to cross.

And I was walking down to the, um, pilot's boat. You have quite a large, you know, 40 to 45 foot support boat that motors along beside you. And in other years I've been, um, feeling high cortisol levels stressed, nervous, just mind, like a hummingbird that couldn't really relax and home in and on this particular one, I actually wrote a note for my crew and my family saying I am feeling grateful to be here.

I am going to love myself, and I am feeling proud of having the courage to put my toe in the water. Even if that's all I do, it's okay. And it just, what I [00:22:00] understood, it didn't really matter how other people perceived or thought what my attempt or my journey or my training was. The really important thing was how I felt about it, and it took a whole veil of pressure off me.

And the swim was still extremely hard, but it was one where I was in a, in a flow state. It was I got in and my body all into automatic pilot of doing the stuff it needed to do. If my mind wandered about, am I gonna get there? It's cold. I'm feeling sick. I went back to focusing on what felt pretty good in my body, and that could be my earlobes and how grateful I was to have a team on a boat who had volunteered their time to come with me, um, how incredible it was to swim over an area that had seen so much.

You know, the Battle of Britain ships going down. Like [00:23:00] all that history. And it was really cool on, um, just changing the mindset on that. And, and in looking back, I was so lucky to have failed that swim five times because I never would've swim around Manhattan. I wouldn't have swim around Catalina. I wouldn't have done ice smiles, I wouldn't have traveled to a lot of different countries and met a lot of amazing people and also had the privilege of sharing some of my journey so that if other people are finding roadblocks or feeling that maybe they're not good enough, or maybe people will judge them, that it's okay and you can just give it a crack anyway.

So that, that's the long answer of how I got into the cold water swimming. Is it hard? It really is. And now people will say, you, I dunno how you do it. You are, you know, you're really tall, you're really lean. I don't know how you get in that, and I could never do it. Or, um, it must be easy for you. And I look at them and I [00:24:00] say, it is really hard every time I get in the water, but it's familiar and it's my cozy little place because I, I love it in there.

I've made friends with it and it's grounding for me. And whether it's someone's trail run, whether it's someone's bike touring, or you are rock climbing, I think there's a way for us to all have a heightened performance and experience 

Kush: Charlotte. Amazing. Thank you for walking us through that. You're welcome.

Let me first offer my congratulations. Well, thank you on finally accomplishing this, uh, lifetime goal, and I have a couple of questions. Okay. Let me start with this one. slightly contrarian one, if you don't mind. Yeah. I don't know enough about open water swimming. I have been fortunate to [00:25:00] speak with a few open water swimming superstars.

And I've also, yeah, even as somebody who's not an open world swimmer, and many of our listeners are not either, most of us have heard of the English Channel Swim, and many of us, if we think wide, we may find somebody who has actually completed it. So in my mind it feels like the English channel swim is more approachable than some of the other swims you mentioned, including some of your other, uh, stupendous feets, you know, the I Smile and all of those things.

So again, educate us. Sure. Is the open, is the English channel swim indeed the hardest? Or did it become, kind of become this, I don't know, this monkey on your back where [00:26:00] sometimes question? Yeah. 

Charlotte: Yeah. It's a really good question and it for me had. It's a very hard swim. There are other very hard swims in the world, and it did become the monkey on my back.

Definitely. And so to give a wee bit of background on open mortar swimming, it comes in many different forms and it's uh, an open mortar swimming. People who do a triathlon. Open water swimming, and they wear a wet suit in that. um, people who are on vacation by the sea or in a lake who are waiting out into the water, it's a hot day and they want to go under and take a few strokes of breaststroke.

They are open water swimming too. 

Kush: And, and may I add, you know, the, the, times I have lost my board out in the ocean and I've had to, uh, swim back to land, you know, tail between my, that made me an open world swimmer for all of those few, embarrassing and excruciating [00:27:00] minutes.

Charlotte: Yeah, of course. And we're, we've got what over? Almost three quarters of, of the Earth is open water. And so open water developed, um, you know, it's not new. It's been around for quite a while, the early 19 hundreds. Um, in fact, it was, I think early in the 1920s, the first woman, Gertrude Italy, swam the West Channel and put a huge spotlight on, um, open water swimming and, and set the precedent of the rules.

And as far as what qualifies for a, recognized open water swim is to. Be swimming in a textile suit. So not having any re heat retaining device, you are not permitted to have a thermal cap, so it's a silicone or latex cap, goggles and earplugs and you're not permitted assistance. And normally there'll be a governing body, whether it's an English Channel association or for example, up the [00:28:00] coast of California as the Catalina Channel Association.

and there are a couple of world bodies that have pretty standardized rules. And so how a, swim works is your swim starts when you step in the water in something like the English channel. The English channel is 21 miles wide as the crow flies, but it has very aggressive tidal currents and they push six hours in one direction and six hours in another.

And it's also got upwards of 700 shipping vessels. A day goes through the channel and they all go parallel to the shoreline. So on the English side, and uh, just off the coast of England, all the ships motor in one direction. And then in the middle there is a, a mile or two called the separation zone. And the reason they have that is no ships are allowed in there.

And then on the French side, the ships will go the other direction, so there's no shipping. Collisions. [00:29:00] So when you're swimming the channel, you motor out on your boat and the first thing that strikes you is it's a huge sea, very, um, swelly water. And if, if you think of an hourglass, you've got two bodies of water.

And the channels that, swim, a swim across is the narrowest path. So it's like the water's funneling through this little hourglass from one way to another. So it moves very rapidly. So when you get off the boat. And you have to swim back to England, maybe a couple of hundred meters, and you clear out of the water.

Uh, if anyone's ever seen the pictures of the white cliffs of Dover, they are huge and beautiful. And then once you step your foot in the water, your swim begins, you swim out to the escort boat and it motors along beside you. And that might be 10 to 20 meters. You might be closer to the boat depending on the weather.

And if you have the wind blowing against the tide direction, the wind against tide, you've got very choppy seas. You've got a very, I'd explain the channel [00:30:00] water is very brackish or very chalky, um, I'm guessing from those white cliffs. So it's a very pungent paste in your mouth. For 21 miles, you need some nutrition.

So given that you're not allowed assistance or to touch the boat, uh, for me, I feed every 30 minutes and by calling feed, someone has a big line of rope and they've got a, a bottle or a container containing food and they throw it to you. And then you either lie on your back like a little seal going or, or, and you drink your stuff or you eat your stuff or you tread water and you tip your head back.

And the challenges become when the seas are heavy and not taking in salt water, which is very hard not to. and being very quick on your feeds because the current's pushing you so fast. If you stop making forward progress, you move down the channel. So most people make a big s shape when they cross the channel because the tide pushes them six hours in one direction [00:31:00] and then six hours in the other.

And the, um, other side of the, uh, channel that, that there's a little cap or little cape called Cape Greeners, and the hit or miss is whether you hit that cape and you can go to finish your swim. And if you don't make it in time and the tide turns, you might have another couple of hours to swim where you get pushed down the coast in the other direction.

So your, your other, um, factors are seasickness jellyfish. You, the roof of your mouth and your tongue blister from the salt. it's the back of your thrust. It sounds like a good time, isn't it? People go and you do this voluntarily. So, uh, so on two of my attempts, I made it within 1000 meters of France and was pulled out.

One was for, raspy breathing. Like there is a chance that you can start getting water in your lungs and your body tries to create water to flush it out and [00:32:00] essentially you can drown while swimming. And uh, the other one was hypothermia. I had another one where I vomited for eight and a half hours straight.

So I would come in for my feet at the boat and they would go, Charlotte, how you doing? And I'd open my mouth and it would just be technicolor on the side of their boat. And, and so that was actually a really good lesson because I learned that. It was okay to be sick and swim at the same time, you know, rather than being like, oh, it's, this is, how am I gonna have my energy and I'm gonna be too weak?

And it's amazing what your body can do with very little. And um, I learned that I can take smaller amounts of nutrition. I had a very, a very good comment from a pilot once when I was figuring out my nutrition and he was like, Charlotte, I want you to go home and get out a bucket, and I want you to measure out every feed you took that 11 hours and tip it in that bucket and tell me if that's what you would normally ingest.

[00:33:00] And the take home is that when you take in more than your body needs, it expels it. And so I, I adjusted, I used to, pretty much fuel on carbohydrate type fluids, um, following what other people do did, and I learned that I needed to discover what worked for me and for me it was, buttery mashed potatoes that someone would put down their shirt to heat up against their skin, and I would suck it out of a little bag warm after they threw it to me.

I had, um, porridge or uh, a oatmeal type thing and maple syrup, and then little dry tea biscuits worked really well as well. So some pretty strange things, but they were things that I could tolerate and, uh, there were things that I could keep down. If I vomited while I was, I would normally not stop to vomit 'cause it takes too long.

So I learned just how to swim and let that go at the same time. And I found out that when vomit goes down your legs and cold water, it warms 'em up. So there was a silver lining I decided [00:34:00] I wasn't going to ask questions. I wasn't going to, look at where I was going. I was gonna go and keep my head down.

And at about, 10, 10 and a half, no it was probably actually 11, 11 and a half hours, the crew started jumping up and down on the boat and they were pointing and I would not look. And the pilot had told me that they have a little rib or a small little boat that they put in the water to motor you in so you know where to go onto the shore on the French shore.

And so I kept looking for this boat to come off the big boat. 'cause then I thought I'd be close. And given that I'd had two failures within sight of land, I didn't wanna look up anymore. So the boat's not coming and the crew's getting all excited and they're cheering. And I'm like, what is going on? And then one of the team members, her name is Elaine Howley, she's outstanding.

She came in the water with these big fins on and she swam beside me and she's like, we are swimming in. um, the water had calmed [00:35:00] down beautifully. We had got through a big wall of jellyfish these, uh, little blues that had given me a lot of stings. And I, I swam in and it was a, it was a, a cliff or a rock wall, so I wasn't able to climb out.

And the ruling is, if you can't climb out, you touch the wall. So I could feel the tide pushing me in. And I put my hand up and I felt that French shore and rock, and I couldn't believe it. I could not believe it. And Elaine was squealing and squealing like you got. And I looked at her and I said, is that it?

And, uh, she's like, that's it. And at this point I was extremely cold. I was very interested on getting back on the big boat 'cause I was visualizing my warm down jacket, my big thick hat. And I looked around and the boat was just this little speck on the horizon. And I said, where's the boat? And she said, oh, they can't come in.

It's too shallow. We have to swim back out. I was like, no. And she's [00:36:00] like, no. Oh gosh. I can tow you out. I can do it. I'm like, no. I'm like, I had like a little frozen smile on my face and uh, I got back into my rhythm. We swam out to that boat and it was an incredible feeling. It was 12 years of work. It was a good amount of people telling me that I couldn't do it.

That I was too lean or I was too old, or it just wasn't my thing. And, I believed in my heart I could get there and I kept going back and just having a go at it. And, uh, so it was pretty surreal. It was a, it was a really exciting moment. And the next day I went down to the shore in Dover where a lot of the channel swimming aspirants are waiting for their turn to go out on the channel.

And they're practicing and in the harbor. And one of my, um, dear friends in France who coaches people over [00:37:00] there said, you know, I wanna let you know that, We had this young man, I think it was Emma that said this. We had this young man and he had always wanted to swim the channel. And he came back to the beach the next day and he was really down.

And, uh, I said, look, um, essentially why the long face? And it was his big goal had gone. And she said, I just, I just wanna make you aware that, you know, you might feel a real, a real low. She's like, how are you doing? And I said, you know what, I'm good.

Two weeks later. Yeah, I'm good. So one year later. Yeah, I'm, I'm really good. So it was pretty funny, but it was really neat journey and, and uh, there were, uh, that's how open water swimming rolls and there is a lot of different ways to enjoy open water swimming and there are lots of different options and someone's one mile swim.

Is the English channel. It's all really cool [00:38:00] to stretch yourself and let yourself be a little vulner vulnerable. It's okay to be fearful and scared and ask for help. That's a big one. 

Kush: you attempted the six times and you seem just, yeah, just obviously very self-aware and a pro learner. So you were learning after all these swims?

Yeah, I still do. And can you point to maybe one thing that shifted in that sixth attempt that allowed you to complete 

Charlotte: Yes, it was, um, self-love it was releasing the internal pressure of completion. Because having that in the back of your mind and using that energy, that life source to worry about what hasn't happened yet, most [00:39:00] important things in this next stroke you're gonna take.

It's not about whether you get there or not, it's being present and, understanding that sometimes you're not feeling it's okay. It really is okay. And that was a huge, that, you know, and, and, and really it was, it was me, you know, because it's a bit of a, it's a bit of an oxymoron because you have to really be driven and work hard to achieve your goal.

And you push and you strive and you drive and you train and you do all that stuff. But that's actually the real joy of it. And understanding that you already had the golden nugget and that event day or that goal day. That is a little bit of an icing on the cake, but the cake's, the real, the cake's the main deal.

So I, I think it's really, and it's easier said than done to let go of expectations and like racing other people. [00:40:00] That's an easy one. And that you can't control who else is at your race. And how can you have that expectation of I have to, you know, my goal is to place, okay, well, you know, you don't control who's there and you do want competitors around you who are better than you because it raises your game.

I, I, I think it's, I think the biggest component was, being at peace with yourself on outcome-based things. 

Kush: You, you said something very profound that I want to, uh, talk a bit more about, which is you obviously wanted. This goal may be more than almost anything in the world out there. 

Charlotte: Right. 

Kush: Yet you were able to somehow detach yourself from wanting that success 

Charlotte: mm-hmm.

Kush: And focus on [00:41:00] the journey. Focus on the flow. Focus on the fact that, yeah. Despite the punishing work, this is indeed a privilege to be able to correct. To go after this. How did you learn? Hmm? Is there something we can learn from your process on how to Yes. How to, not how to care, but not care. 

Charlotte: Yeah. That's a good way to put it.

Uh, well, one of it is, um, embracing failure. Because I was not graceful of my first fails. understanding that those are there to give you possibilities to learn. I think the other thing was focusing on the highlights because winning the race or crossing the channel or finishing whichever one it is for you, it's a lot about, you know, with social creatures.

I really enjoyed the time with the crew [00:42:00] and the people that were there with me. We had the best time and I was grateful. I think it's, gratitude is a big one. And, feeling that privilege to be out in nature, to have the physical ability to actually be in the event and, um, trusting your training. So I, I think if there was two words, it, it really would be a tolerance.

Well, those are more than two words, three things. Tolerance for failure, failure willingness, a willingness to learn and being grateful. And when you really look at what's, what's important in life, it's not necessarily the hand on the French rock. It's what you learned and how you grew and who you shared it with.

To get there, that's actually the treasure. And you, and you don't always, you know, if I'd got that swim the first time, I don't think I would've had the growth [00:43:00] to really appreciate that.

Kush: Thank you for sharing that. You're welcome. You know, they say that, they say that, uh, failure teaches us. Deeper lessons than success 

Charlotte: mm-hmm. 

Kush: Ever does. What is something you know now about failure that you didn't know? 

Charlotte: I used to be embarrassed. Like, I would be, like, I would be embarrassed that when I swam and I would get out of the water, everyone would be walking around and chatting and I would be like shaking with hypothermic shakes with hat and jacket and stuff on.

And then, when it was failure, you know, if I didn't complete a swim, you, I, I would feel embarrassed about it. And, what I learned was to be, kind to myself to be proud of attempting. And that [00:44:00] really, if I wasn't stretching myself, if I was gonna be landing everything I did. It wasn't really putting a fire in my belly.

You know, I, I, it was probably gonna be a little bit bland and, um, that it's okay if we are vulnerable and that we share that with other people. So I, I, I think it's a little bit about picking what your goal is, about acknowledging that you have the courage to set it, declaring it with other people and be proud of yourself.

And that's not. That's not meaning that you go around with an ego like skiing about stuff. It's just about, Hey, you know, this is what I'm doing. Uh, it didn't work out. And if someone wants to say why, being okay with, well, I get really cold and I got hypothermic. So, you know, safety first out, I came and I'm gonna be training for something else, or I'm gonna try that again.[00:45:00] 

You know? And it's okay to choose another swim too, but I, I think having a tolerance for failure, um, and being kind to yourself and asking for help is pretty big.

Kush: I call it. You learn so much about what it takes to succeed in open water swimming, and, uh, I'm curious, um. Is there a lesson or two about, uh, that whole process about, let's say, um, lessons from the water 

Charlotte: Yeah. That 

Kush: you think apply far beyond swimming? 

Charlotte: Well, I, I do. I, I call it, I call it the waves of wisdom.

I think number one, and the most important thing is to follow your passion. that could be in your recreation, it could be in your profession, uh, it could be in your hobby. Whatever it is, is choosing something that, it's that thing [00:46:00] where time disappears. Okay? When you go and do an activity and it, you get to a point where.

All you are thinking about, everything is present on that activity. All the other noise in your life goes away is that passion where you are 110% in. So number one is following your passion in life and things will work out. number two we already talked about is, is having a tolerance for failure. So, you know, when your hand doesn't hit the rock is, um, being graceful, being kind to yourself, allowing yourself to be disappointed.

my go-to now is not, skippity do, I'm still a little bit down, but I understand it's a process. number three would be possibilities. So if you. Had your failure or if your path or your passion's not working out, where are the gaps or the spaces that you can fill in with possibilities or learning?

And [00:47:00] then, um, number four is being grateful that we talked about and that goes across everywhere in life. And then number five, I really call that, essentially it's stewardship or making a difference in the lives of others. And ideally that's not something that you get recognition for. It might be something that you quietly do for someone else noticing that.

You know, may, maybe you're all cyclists and you notice that someone's been to the group ride four out of five days this week, and that's a real victory. maybe it's someone that's training for a trail run and, they've got a, a smaller event they did and they completed it and it's encouraging them and, and it could be a family member or a spouse just, you know, saying like, you've got great energy today, you make my day better.

So, and it might be coaching someone, it might be mentoring someone, but I think noticing someone else's efforts and struggles and encouraging [00:48:00] them goes a long way. And that's something we all have the ability to do. It could be a stranger on the street look, opening a door, letting someone go first, saying hi and giving someone eye contact that person.

They might work alone, they might live alone, and that might be the only contact they get on the day. So it goes far beyond open water swimming. I think it's a model of how to live our, our lives, and one in a satisfying way, and one that, uh, makes a difference in the lives of others.

Kush: Five, yes. Five, uh, key takeaways. you know, most of us haven't found this big audacious goal in front of us. Mm-hmm. And, and me never will, may never seek out. But is there an, is there any advice you have for, for those people on how to, because I, I completely I resonate with the fact that.[00:49:00] 

When you do have this over overarching goal, you know, it, it tends to like, clarify things. It like, you know, the, the, the, the unimportant stuff tends to like just, uh, feed into the background. 

Charlotte: It's a beautiful thing. 

Kush: It's a beautiful thing and it makes you feel so alive to be out there. Uh, yeah. Pushing yourself deep, reaching deep within yourself, like mm-hmm.

Um, so how can, how can people listening find, 

Charlotte: find that, so here would be my, here would be my input on that is, um, we've done a really good job of creating comfortable lives and I'm talking physically comfortable lives. I mean, there's lots of challenges for many people all you know, out there, all of us actually in some level.

But having the ability to challenge ourselves. To be in a place of some [00:50:00] discomfort, I believe is a really great growth thing. And it really gives us a big appreciation for life. And a form of discomfort is different for all of us, and that's an individual journey on that. discomfort might be going for a walk around the block and that might be something that it's easy to do, but it's easier not to do it.

if we can challenge ourselves to, I really don't feel like doing that after work today or before work or whatever's going on at home. Just, you know, this goes going on, that's going, I need to do this. But like, if we can go and do that walk and we come back and we write. This was a victory. I did this walk today and build a little confidence jar.

So it could be a physical jar, it could be something you tap on your phone. Today I walked 20 minutes and it felt amazing. [00:51:00] And so when you've got a time of self-doubt or you're questioning is it worth it, and you think back to that day that you were victorious um, you overcame that urge to not do it, and you go and do it again, and then you do it again.

And maybe you go a little bit longer. And let's say you've done three weeks of that walk and you're starting to enjoy nature and you're noticing the birds. You might see someone else on the walk essentially you are getting more comfortable with that discomfort. And so that discomfort's different than my discomfort, but that doesn't make it not as good.

It's just finding our own little spot. It might be if you are not, uh, if you are an introvert and you would like to have some contact with people, but it's creates anxiety and you want to challenge yourself to go to a reading room or a coffee shop, not even talk [00:52:00] to anyone, but just go around and be other people and you're like, I'm gonna challenge myself to get uncomfortable and do this even if it's for five minutes and then the next week it might be 10 minutes.

I might build it up to 15 minutes. I might say hello to someone all the time. Building your little confidence jar in your own way. And, and I think there's ways that we can challenge ourselves physically and mentally.

Kush: The confidence jar sounds so apt. Like one, just one needs to keep depositing into that jar. Yeah. And uh, and that allows us to, let's say, make withdrawals for right big undertakings. Our lives and great, uh, illustrations there. Like it doesn't always have to do with our adventure. I think. I think you and I and and others, some others probably feel the same way.

That [00:53:00] physical movement and nature mm-hmm. Just provides so many benefits. Like, it doesn't matter how good you might be at something, right. There's just so much, uh, you know, uncertainty in that kaleidoscope that mother nature provides. but it doesn't always have to be that it, it can not at all be in, um, in, in whichever way.

And I think most of us realize those things that do make us afraid. And I think, uh, sometimes one just has to tackle those things head on. But maybe take. Bite-sized chunks. 

Charlotte: Absolutely. Oh yeah, absolutely. And, oh, my friend gave me a sticker. I really love it. It's actually on my, with it, it's note to self, I can do hard things I, I mean, I think it's really good for.

for all of us, not even everyone listening, is that we have self-doubt built within us. And a confidence jar [00:54:00] or achieving things is there to reinforce to our inner self. I can do hard things. I might have doubts at the moment, but that doesn't mean I can't do it. So it's not listening to that loud in a voice.

It's like acknowledging it. And it's like, actually there are things that I can do. I don't need to listen to that voice. Or if I do listen to it today, that doesn't mean I need to listen to it tomorrow. And if we can just in our lives be comfortable with getting uncomfortable, and when we grow and change, it's a little uncomfortable that's really going to unleash and, and, um, release some real satisfaction and joy.

And it doesn't mean it'll be easy because as my son said, he was probably only nine on my first channel swim, something like that. And I was so down in the dumps and he's like, mom being from New Zealand, it's not mom, it's mom. You know, we have to [00:55:00] go through the deepest valleys to reach the highest peaks.

And I was like, where? Whose child was this? And you? And it was really poignant and you know, and it's true. And you know, we are going to have ups and downs and, Be o it's okay to feel down at times, but it's good to pick yourself up, dust yourself off, you know, you know, Charlotte can do it. Step up one leg at a time.

We're gonna give it another go, and each time we'll get a little more experience, we'll get a little more stronger in whatever area we are pursuing. And you will get there. You will absolutely get there. It's not always when you think you will. So you've gotta be a little bit patient. You gotta be perseverant.

You have to per, you really have to persevere longer than you would like. If you're persevering longer than you'd like, you are probably on the right track.

Kush: Excellent. we've talked about your big swim [00:56:00] and we've talked about, mindset. We've talked about, preparation, failure, uh. But I have to ask you about the story that I read about. It's about the shark, right? Oh, yes. And uh, while, so yeah, while you were doing the Catalina Island swim, you got hit hard by, I did a shark.

Apparently you didn't even see it, but it bit you. Correct. And then, and then you kept swimming 19 more miles. Yeah. Yes. With 

Charlotte: a tooth 

Kush: that's right. 

Charlotte: Still in your hip. Is that correct? That's correct, yeah. I had, I'd come off an English channel failure and I'd signed up [00:57:00] for swimming around Manhattan, which I did not complete.

I went to do Catalina channel and I'd upped my training. I'd got on the cold water I leave from the San Pedro, uh, marina dock area and you motor across the channel and you start on the Isle of Catalina. you start at, uh, 11 at night. And you get off the boat, and I've mentioned you get off the boat, swim into the shore, sitting on the back of the boat.

And one of the boat crews said, all right, this is what's gonna happen. You're gonna swim into the Catalina Island. It's very dark. We're gonna shine a spotlight on the shore. There is a, uh, a boy, like a swim beach line that you need to go under and careful that you don't get tangled in it. And there are some shark rocks, just careful not to cut yourself and some kelp and stuff.

So I swam in, going, okay, don't cut myself. Don't cut yourself, don't cut yourself. And I came to the boy line and I slipped under it like a little otter, [00:58:00] and my knee dropped kinda low, and I felt this slice on my knee. And I'm like, oh, that's not good. And so I ignored it, swam in, cleared the water, lifted my arms up so that the boat crew could see me.

Uh, they sign, they signaled I stepped in the water and I began my swim. It was pitch black and there was some reasonable, um, sea swells. Not anything too outta control, but enough to sort of pick up the boat and move it one way outta kayak to my right side in a 45 foot boat to the my left. And I got myself settled into the swim.

This was gonna be my swim because I just failed the channel. I'd failed swimming around Manhattan. I'm like, okay, I got this. I got the swim. I'm trained up. I'm ready to go. So the first hour, I normally swim straight without stopping for food, and my feed cup was on the kayak and I'm stretching out my [00:59:00] stroke.

I'm working on relaxing, hearing my breath, letting it soothe my mind, and something hit me like a freight train on my right side. It hit me so hard, it shunted me sideways and I just felt intense, sharp pain around my hip. And, uh, I'd like to say that I did not curse, but I believe I did in my mind because I am like, what the, was that I'm trying to understand what had hit me.

And, uh, my arms kept stroking. I had an immense pain in my hip and I decided I needed to try and figure out what was going on. So I took a breath to the right to see where the kayak was. 'cause I thought maybe the kayak had hit me. And the kayak was way off to the right. And then I lifted my head to look for the boat and it had been up on a swell off to my left.

And I'm like, okay, it wasn't that. So then I'm like knocking out the things that it could be and I'm like, well, it might be a [01:00:00] tree, like a fallen tree. I could have like swam into a, like a branches or something. And then I remembered I'm in like hundreds feet deeper water. So it wasn't that. And then my mind just decided it was an upside down mutant jellyfish that had just intensely hit me on the hip.

My hip was throbbing and I was, you know, I didn't wanna get in the boat 'cause I did not wanna fail my swim. And uh, I worked on just putting the pain outta my mind and just focusing on my breath. And uh, so I swam for another. 11 hours. And then the boat crew and the observer pulled me in and my speed had dropped and I um, was getting really cold.

And when they wanna see how your cognitive state is, people ask you questions and see how your memory is and if you can answer things. So they pulled me into the boat and they asked me what street I lived on. And I was [01:01:00] thrilled 'cause I answered it. I'm like, yeah, oh yeah, I live on Weeks Hill Road. But what I actually said was, and then they asked me my daughter's name and I'm like, oh, that's easy.

I know that. Yeah, that's Heidi. And it came out as, and they said, well. You need to kick really hard. You gotta pick up your pace. You're swimming against the current and if you don't make forward progress, we're pulling you out. And I was under a mile from finishing the swim and they called, pulled me over the boat and they said, your swim's done.

And so in the boat I get and I, my heart sank. I'm like, this is my third failure in a row. I am feeling nauseous 'cause I've taken in sea water and I'm feeling pretty sorry for myself. So we motor about an hour or so back to the dock. The crew are unloading all the bags. We're all tired. We've been out there for a long time.

Went up for about 24 hours or more. The captain comes and he pats me on the back and he [01:02:00] says, don't I, you know, Charlotte, you're a fabulous swimmer. Come back next year, we'll take you out again. And I, I was feeling really sick at this point and nauseous. So we get loaded up in the car and the, um, two, um, lovely people who are helping me crew are in the passenger seat, in the driver's seat.

And I'm in the back of the, of the car and I just, I can't get comfortable. And for anyone, if you've ever done something where you've extended yourself, where it's not that you've injured yourself, but everything aches in your body. Like if you've really extended yourself and it's like everything is fatigued and achy.

Well, my hip is just, I can't get comfortable. It's like it's achy, it hurts to move. And I'm like squirming around in the backseat. And, um. The two girls in the front are like, well, you just settled down back there. We are tired. We've had enough of you today. You know, like, we are tired too. And I'm like, wriggling around.

And my, my sweatpants slipped down on my right [01:03:00] side and I'm like, Hey, I've got holes in me. And they're like, you're out of it. Charlotte just piped down. And I said, no, no, really? There's like little puncture holes in me. And um, then I'm like, Hey, hold on. Something's sticking out of one of them. And then so I reached down and it go and I pull this little tooth out and um, I lean forward and I'm like, does that look like a tooth to you?

And we all just raw with laughter 'cause we are like totally drunk with fatigue and time. That's, and they're like, yeah, it does. So we put it in a, in a, um, coconut water bottle and we go back to where we're staying. One goes to bed, the other one is, 

Kush: hang on. So the shark. And some somehow like 

Charlotte: lost 

Kush: it stood in your, 

Charlotte: in your head.

So I put this little white, like in, like in the hole. Like so I've got these, I've got these little, and all I can see is puncture holes right now. So I get back to the place I go [01:04:00] strip off to go shower and then I, I'm trying to wipe all the grease and the smudge all off my body. 'cause you put Vaseline or stuff over your body to stop chafing and you know, I'm, I'm trying to tentatively rub it 'cause it, it's hurting and there's just this.

Bruised mouth mark with puncture holes lower, like a half moony shape and up at the top. And I walked back with a towel around me and I sort of split it open and I said to my, my buddy, I'm like, does that look like a mouth mark to you? And, and, and we, you know, we did, we, we kind of laughed. So the next day I went down to the, um, local marina and, um, showed them the mark and, um, the little tooth.

And, uh, she figured it was a, a case of mistake and identity. She estimated about a five to six foot. Fish and, um, she thought leopard shark. And, um, you know, our only thought was when you're swimming at night, you have a light stick on your [01:05:00] back and on the back of your cap. And this one had a long string.

So when I would roll to one side, it would flip to one hip and then to the other. So whether it was something going for light, I don't know, but it definitely got a, a, a bony area on me, which I was very fortunate and I'm thinking that was a pretty disappointed shark. He took a bite and, uh, he, he was, he, he was not into it at all.

And uh, I think he went down to his, we sharky friends and said, I don't know what to tell you, but I just hit something hard up there and it did not feel good. you know, it was pitch black. I didn't see it coming. I did go to the doctor when I got back to Vermont and he said, Charlotte, I've got some really important medical advice for you, and it's called crochet ping pong volleyball.

You might wanna try another, you wanna, you might wanna try another, uh, vocation, you know, another recreational pursuit. But, but it [01:06:00] did, um, you know, it, it, um, it did settle down that, that hip was really, um, you know, it was painful for a good few weeks, but, uh, I, again, I was very fit, fortunate. I wasn't hit on a calf or an abdomen or anything like that.

It really did. Yeah. A bit of bony area. And, uh, so that probably the, one of the hardest things I've ever done in my life was going back out to that same swim exactly a year later, sliding off that boat, swimming into that island and swimming over those same waters 

Kush: mentally. When, when the. Insane story when the shark actually bit you.

You didn't realize it of course, because there were so many things that were going on. Yeah. But had you known that you were bit by a shark and just learning as tenacious as you are, do you think you would have continued? 

Charlotte: I do, because at that point I know something. I knew something had bit me. I mean, I, [01:07:00] I was trying to justify it in my mind, and I knew I was here was, my thought was, I'm not sticking around to find out what this is.

I am continuing. That is what I'm doing and I'm gonna take it one stroke at a time. I'm gonna figure out what I can, but I'm not gonna be, I'm not stopping panicking and thrashing around. 'cause I thought that was the worst thing that I could do. And um, you know, eventually other issues came up like cold and, you know, the other areas got painful.

But, um, you know, it, it's a good question. I honestly don't know because it wasn't that scenario, but whatever it was, I wasn't sticking around to find out. 

Kush: Yeah. I'm just wondering like, most of us, if we get bit, if you know we've gotten bit, we might have chosen to, uh, chosen to-I 

Charlotte: Yeah. 

Kush: Evacuate in, in retrospect, do you think you made the, the right choice by deciding to continue?

Charlotte: I did on that [01:08:00] swim, um. I did on that swimming and the boat were like, why didn't you say anything? And, and my answer then was because I wanted to finish the swim. Okay. I was, I, I was pretty set on that. if the boat were watching, visually watching something circling me, um, continuously, you know, it was pitch park, we didn't know.

And, um, I was caught in the boat, I would've got in, I think. 

Kush: Sure. But it's hard sometimes, sometimes luck favor the brave, you know? I mean, yeah. 

Charlotte: Yeah. 

Kush: You, you took a chance. Yeah. 

Charlotte: On that night I was not getting in.

Kush: Amazing, amazing. So badass. just this, um, last section of the, of the, of the show where I would love to ask you something on what I call being ageless. And because I host the show, I think it emboldens me to ask a good question, which is, how old are you? 

Charlotte: Oh, [01:09:00] I am 59 years old or young. 

Kush: Amazing. 

Charlotte: Yeah. 

Kush: 59 years young.

Yeah. What is something you can do now at 59 that you could not do at 29, either physically or mentally? 

Charlotte: Uh, I have a much heightened ability to calm my mind I can get myself into, I'm saying when I say flow state, I mean. In athletically a performance zone, or I'm getting into a place where distractions can go away and I, and I can get in there a lot, a lot faster than I used to.

So rather than being, okay, you know, with a, a cute little kitty cat and they have little laser pointers and the little kitty cat, like, what the head follows, the pointer everywhere. I can focus on demand now, which is really incredible. It's such a cool thing of being able to do that. I've been able to [01:10:00] navigate some really challenging things in my life by going, if I can tolerate cold water, if I can tolerate being bit when I'm swimming, if I can swim through heavy seas and I know I, I have patience and perseverance and I remain calm, I can do hard things.

That's the biggest takeaway training wise, uh, I'm a lot more effective on and by training. It's not regimented with me. I mean, I lay out what I, um, have come to learn to know what I need to do to succeed. But I'm much kinder my, to myself on understanding that if I'm preparing for a swim, I need to prepare my cardiovascular system, my higher intensity swim system, so a little speed work and some recovery.

And I don't need to be doing top end delivery every day of the week. And so it's really more [01:11:00] about a healthy body and mind, good mobility and longevity. um, not beating myself up to achieve something, but living a healthy, um, fulfilling life. And I think those are the two big things. You, you don't have to.

Beat yourself up doesn't have to hurt, although it can be uncomfortable. So I think, um, having the ability to calm my mind, it's not controlling it, it's acknowledging that there's noise and being able to let it go and focus on something else

Kush: related. Next question. Yeah. What do you think most people get wrong about aging? 

Charlotte: Uh, one is trying to follow what everyone else is doing.

Like, um, there, there's not a quick fix. We're all going down that pathway, like having the patience to, to [01:12:00] experiment and explore what feels good with your body. Um, number two, it's never too late. I think being a lifelong learner and understanding that, w when you are getting to be, um, well versed as opposed to saying expert well versed in your field or the area you want to improve in, it takes many, many repetitions and it's a joyful thing.

you don't have to follow the same pot of fish that everyone else is doing. That. Um, you, Continue to learn and grow and keep the fire lit within you. Like if, if I think if we reach a point where we're like, oh, well I'm too old. You know, what's the point in stretching? I think we lose a little zest for life.

So I think in aging it's continuing to challenge ourselves. You don't have to do it in a way that everybody else does. 'cause we're all individuals. [01:13:00] So, you know, think of me in my, my channel swim. You don't have to eat what everyone else is eating for you to have a healthy, happy life. It's about what works for your body.

Kush: Charlotte, you are inspiring so many of us with your swims, your mindset and, and your words right now. What is one thing or one person that inspires you? 

Charlotte: So my, my immediate family really inspired me. You know, my, um, I have two children, 25 and 27. And seeing how they navigate the world and how they expose themselves to discomfort and vocalize that it's hard really inspires me.

And as, as [01:14:00] a, as a young woman in my twenties, that's something that I didn't vocalize and share. That early. And I think that that's incredible. And they haven't done that from following my lead. They've gone and explored their journeys and they share it. And I think that that is absolutely incredible. my husband is embraces my bonkers ness because, you know, my uncomfortable is a little different than other people's uncomfortable.

So that also exposes our family. I think, I think that, that, that they are are really incredible. Um, and I'm gonna back up with anyone that puts themself into a space of vulnerability inspires me.

Kush: Anybody who puts themselves yes, being vulnerable is sort difficult. 

Charlotte: It's hard day in, 

Kush: day out, day in, day out. It it, it's a lifetime, [01:15:00] lifetime. Process. It really is. But a couple of, 

Charlotte: yeah. 

Kush: Yeah. A couple of fun questions just to end. You, you trace your roots to New Zealand, correct? Yes. But now you found a new home?

Yes. What's one thing you miss the most about your, uh, former country? 

Charlotte: It's the, um, it's the ocean. Like the New Zealand Ocean waters and the contrast of these incredible alps like the, the a, the massive high ALP line think, um, Swiss Alp type thing. And then you've got the sea within a couple of hours. It's absolutely stunning beauty and I, I do really miss the, um, New Zealand terrain with that saying.

We all have challenges in our lives, and one of mine has been that I tend to love where I'm at and it's sometimes hard [01:16:00] to choose. And Vermont has got beautiful, beautiful geography as well, but I, I think that that would be the biggest thing. Um, and New Zealand and New Zealand make incredible ice cream.

Oh yeah. Creamy ice cream. Just amazing. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kush: Yeah. A, a trip down to New Zealand has been on my wishlist for a long time, but I will have to add to ask you before I go on. Yes. Which ice cream. Shop maybe. Absolutely. To checkout. Checkout, yes. Charlotte, what might have been the best use of, let's say, a hundred dollars in recent memory and a similar amount?

Charlotte: Um, for me or for 

Kush: anyone that you spent on whatever. Hmm. 

Charlotte: A hundred dollars. Seems like a lot, doesn't it? [01:17:00] I think, um, I think actually it's actually, for me, it's been. Buying cat or goggles for someone who doesn't have have it and who's got a fear of water. And knowing that if they know that someone cares, to give them a little something to try and see what it feels like to submerge in the water.

That's pretty cool. 

Kush: And you did that recently and, and what was the outcome? 

Charlotte: Well, there's, um, I'm, I'm involved with some Learn to Swim programs and seeing, seeing some people, one particular who as a young woman was young girl and like Ka was told to keep away from the water. It's dangerous. And in her seventies, learning to trust the water and submerge and finding that joy [01:18:00] and articulating that she known longer needs to sit on the sidelines and watch other people.

And, um. Her husband commented to her, oh, you should really keep swimming. It's really good for you. it's, it really makes you joyous and, and, and bubbly and happy and, and no attitude. And she's like, huh, I guess I had an attitude before. It was really funny. So it just put her like into her own little, stress-free world mindset, her own wee journey.

And I, I think that was really neat. So yeah, like, like helping open up the water to other people is, that's a good use of that a hundred dollars. 

Kush: Love, love it. Love it. And it's, it's the kind of gift that will keep on giving Yeah. For that person. It'll be so life changing if that person actually, uh, ends up embracing, uh, 

Charlotte: yeah.

The full 

Kush: extent of that gift. Yeah. [01:19:00] And uh, and yeah. Final fun question. These swims, they demand demand so much of you, right? And, uh, part of, part of the swim is you have to like do these, uh, I guess these mechanical feedings of all kinds of things that sustain you. But once the swim ends, I'm guessing you are allowed to maybe go, um, indulgent a meal that you're craving in, in your case, what is that meal?

Charlotte: I, I'm very much a steak in mashed potatoes. Um, girl. And, uh, when you first come out of a swim after taking all that fluid in, I normally don't have much of an appetite for the first sort of 12 to 24 hours, it's probably going to be a soft food, like an omelet, you know, with everything in it type thing is probably what I'm gonna go to first.

But I can tell you if it's fresh water, I eat chips like cake, cod, like crisps. They've got [01:20:00] salt in them, they taste amazing. And, um, my pres swim or the night before meals normally a, a protein or a steak or something like that with some vegetables and, and, um, mashed potatoes on that. But afterwards it is something a wee bit lighter, that's a wee bit gentler on your tummy would normally be it.

Um, and you know, just to gain, um, energy and calories of avocados, nuts, ice cream, anything that's calorie rich. I'll go for 

Kush: interesting nuance there. Uh. Yeah, just made me realize that when you are swimming in salt water, you like, I guess the last thing you're craving for is maybe, maybe more salt and maybe opposite.

Opposite. Uh, I, I know personally that after, after a big day of, uh, of, of rock climbing, like nothing tastes better than, uh, some, some cattle cooked potato chips. 

Charlotte: It's incredible, isn't it? Yeah, it's really good. Yeah. It's really good. Charlotte, 

Kush: [01:21:00] thank you so much for sharing your time, your stories, and your wisdom on the short day.

You were so 

Charlotte: welcome. I, I was so appreciate chatting with you and I, um, I'm really grateful for your audience to listen and, and my hope is there's a little snippet of something that, um, each of you can class on to have a little fun with because fun is really important. So, you know, that comes with a passion.

And, and fun doesn't always have to feel fun. So just wanna remind everyone of that.