May 16, 2024

#21 After the Fall — Healing, Identity, and Learning to Live Again

#21 After the Fall — Healing, Identity, and Learning to Live Again

🚀"Yes, that was a catalyst. Yours doesn't have to be falling off a cliff, because you know, everyone's going to fall off their own cliff, whatever that is. "💪🏾⛰️ Craig DeMartino embodies the spirit of this podcast in every way. He's a climber, a teacher, a mentor, and an inspiration to anyone who's ever faced adversity. Climbing wasn't just a hobby; it became a way of life, a passion that shaped his world. But life, as we know, throws curveballs. In Craig's case, it was a devastating accide...

Apple Podcasts podcast player iconSpotify podcast player iconRSS Feed podcast player iconYouTube podcast player iconAmazon Music podcast player icon
Apple Podcasts podcast player iconSpotify podcast player iconRSS Feed podcast player iconYouTube podcast player iconAmazon Music podcast player icon
Season 1

🚀"Yes, that was a catalyst. Yours doesn't have to be falling off a cliff, because you know, everyone's going to fall off their own cliff, whatever that is. "💪🏾⛰️

Craig DeMartino embodies the spirit of this podcast in every way. He's a climber, a teacher, a mentor, and an inspiration to anyone who's ever faced adversity. Climbing wasn't just a hobby; it became a way of life, a passion that shaped his world.

But life, as we know, throws curveballs. In Craig's case, it was a devastating accident that changed everything. He found himself at a crossroads, facing a future that seemed unimaginable. But Craig is not a man who backs down. He made a choice, a bold choice, to not let this event define him. And that choice led him on an incredible journey of adaptation, grit, and ultimately, triumph.

Today, Craig stands as a champion adaptive climber He has five ascents of El Cap, two of them in less than 24 hours. He’s the two-time National Champ, two-time bronze medalist in Worlds, and five-time Extremity Games gold medalist. What makes Craig’s story truly stand out

Craig now dedicates his life to helping others discover the transformative power of climbing. He works tirelessly with veterans and individuals with disabilities, sharing his knowledge, experience, and unwavering belief in the human spirit's ability to overcome any challenge.

Cover Photo Credit: https://www.instagram.com/bearcam/?hl=en

Ready to unlock your full potential? This episode is kindly brought to you by Maximum Performance Learning, you can transform your career and leadership journey! Arnold and his team were invaluable to me when I was starting this podcast. MPL provides expert coaching designed to elevate your skills and performance. Whether you're a seasoned professional or just starting, their tailored coaching sessions will propel you to the next level. For a limited time, mention Ageless Athlete to receive 20% off your first four sessions. Don't wait – visit Maximum Performance Learning today and start your journey to peak performance!

References:

Craig DeMartino's Website: This website likely contains more information about Craig's climbing career, his work with adaptive athletes, and his speaking engagements. CraigDeMartino.com, Instagram

Adaptive Adventures: The non-profit organization Craig works with, providing outdoor sports opportunities for individuals with disabilities. AdaptiveAdventures.org

Evolve Adaptive Foot (EAF): The climbing foot prosthetic developed by Evolv, a climbing shoe company, which Craig helped design. Evolv Website - search for "EAF"

Craig's Sponsors:

ArcTeryx
Evolv
Blue Water Ropes
Friction Labs
Black Diamond
Physivantage








---

🚀 Love the show? Here’s how to support it

If something you’ve heard here has stayed with you, made you smile, or helped you keep going, I’d be honored if you’d consider supporting the show. 👉 https://buymeacoffee.com/agelessathlete

📰 Subscribe to the Ageless Athlete newsletter !

1-2x a month, no spam. We share behind-the-scenes reflections, longevity tips, and athlete wisdom you won’t find anywhere else. You can sign up at https://www.agelessathlete.co/newsletter/ 📩

Support the show

00:00 - Ageless Athlete - Craig DeMartino

WEBVTT

00:01:12.974 --> 00:01:14.294
Welcome to Ageless athlete.

00:01:14.655 --> 00:01:21.824
The podcast where we go deep into lives of those who keep moving, keep striving and keep pushing the boundaries.

00:01:22.394 --> 00:01:24.254
Forget age, forget limitations.

00:01:24.625 --> 00:01:24.924
Here.

00:01:24.924 --> 00:01:26.694
It's all about the fire and the heart.

00:01:27.264 --> 00:01:32.814
And today we have a guest who stories guaranteed to light that fire in you.

00:01:34.074 --> 00:01:36.744
Craig DiMartino embodies the spirit of the spot.

00:01:36.774 --> 00:01:38.064
Gaston everywhere.

00:01:38.125 --> 00:01:40.674
He's a claimer, a teacher, a mentor.

00:01:41.304 --> 00:01:44.905
And an inspiration to anyone who's ever faced a challenge.

00:01:45.564 --> 00:01:51.685
Craig's relationship with the outdoors goes way back, starting in the humble crags of Pennsylvania.

00:01:52.674 --> 00:01:53.694
It wasn't just a hobby.

00:01:53.784 --> 00:01:56.544
It became a way of life, a passion that shaped his world.

00:01:57.414 --> 00:01:58.854
But life, as we know.

00:01:59.245 --> 00:02:00.294
Throws curve balls.

00:02:01.044 --> 00:02:05.304
And his case, it was a devastating accident that changed everything.

00:02:06.024 --> 00:02:07.734
He found himself at a crossroads.

00:02:08.004 --> 00:02:10.974
Facing a future that seemed unimaginable.

00:02:11.814 --> 00:02:14.274
But Craig is not a man who backs down.

00:02:14.454 --> 00:02:16.555
He made a choice, a bull one.

00:02:17.034 --> 00:02:18.925
To not let this event define him.

00:02:19.405 --> 00:02:20.875
And that choice led him.

00:02:21.111 --> 00:02:21.442
On N.

00:02:22.058 --> 00:02:24.329
Incredible journey of adaptation grit.

00:02:24.988 --> 00:02:26.098
And ultimately triumph.

00:02:27.058 --> 00:02:30.838
Today Craig stands as a champion adaptive athlete.

00:02:31.588 --> 00:02:33.269
He has five, a sense of at gap.

00:02:33.329 --> 00:02:36.509
I do have them in less than 24 hours.

00:02:37.108 --> 00:02:39.538
He is the two times national champion.

00:02:39.778 --> 00:02:42.149
Two times Bron medalist and worlds.

00:02:42.628 --> 00:02:45.509
And five times extreme games, gold medalist.

00:02:46.199 --> 00:02:49.079
What makes Craig's story truly stand out?

00:02:49.858 --> 00:02:53.968
Create now dedicate his life to helping others discover.

00:02:54.358 --> 00:02:56.399
The transformative power of climbing.

00:02:56.848 --> 00:03:00.478
He works tirelessly with veterans and individuals with disabilities.

00:03:00.959 --> 00:03:09.058
Sharing his knowledge experience and unwavering belief in the human spirit ability to overcome any challenge.

00:03:09.628 --> 00:03:11.668
He leads adaptive climbing clinics.

00:03:12.209 --> 00:03:13.918
Mentors, aspiring climbers.

00:03:14.459 --> 00:03:17.819
And advocates for greater inclusivity in the sport.

00:03:17.819 --> 00:03:18.538
He loves.

00:03:19.588 --> 00:03:28.319
He not only returned to the sport he loves, but also dedicated himself to helping others discover the power and joy of climbing.

00:03:28.889 --> 00:03:30.899
No matter their physical abilities.

00:03:31.678 --> 00:03:35.038
We will be exploring his story in detail.

00:03:36.088 --> 00:03:38.308
The highs, the lows, the moment of doubt.

00:03:38.939 --> 00:03:42.028
And unwavering resolve that gathered him through.

00:03:42.401 --> 00:03:45.492
They will talk about the incredible power of the community.

00:03:45.911 --> 00:03:49.752
The innovations that have opened doors for adaptive athletes.

00:03:50.442 --> 00:03:53.651
And the profound lessons that Greg has learned along the way.

00:03:54.822 --> 00:03:56.742
Craig is extremely thoughtful.

00:03:57.612 --> 00:04:01.122
Very articulate and such a gifted storyteller.

00:04:01.632 --> 00:04:04.601
You will be so glad you tuned into this one.

00:04:06.165 --> 00:04:11.204
A quick shout out to maximum performance learning leadership coating services.

00:04:11.925 --> 00:04:16.665
With maximum performance learning, you can transform your career and leadership journey.

00:04:16.964 --> 00:04:24.045
When I was starting, this podcast are known and his team helped me refine my plan and my pitch.

00:04:24.584 --> 00:04:26.564
With MPL, they can provide.

00:04:26.954 --> 00:04:31.964
Expert coaching designed to elevate your skills and they can work with you anywhere.

00:04:32.260 --> 00:04:32.860
Remotely.

00:04:33.070 --> 00:04:33.641
Visit.

00:04:34.420 --> 00:04:36.940
M B learning dot bears.

00:04:37.540 --> 00:04:41.350
And sign up for a discounted.

00:04:41.831 --> 00:04:42.940
Coaching services plan.

00:04:42.940 --> 00:04:47.798
I just mentioned ageless athlete to get 20% off.

00:04:47.798 --> 00:04:48.548
So don't wait.

00:04:48.998 --> 00:04:52.209
Visit their website and start a journey to peak performance.

00:04:52.569 --> 00:04:53.108
Okay.

00:04:53.199 --> 00:04:53.978
On with the show.

00:04:57.903 --> 00:05:02.870
Hi Craig, thanks for joining us today on the, H list athlete podcast.

00:05:03.620 --> 00:05:09.209
Please tell us, where are you today and what did you have for breakfast?

00:05:10.750 --> 00:05:14.879
I am in Loveland, Colorado, where my wife and I are based out of.

00:05:14.879 --> 00:05:18.719
We've lived in Colorado for a really long time, so that's kind of our home.

00:05:19.072 --> 00:05:20.711
I actually had oatmeal this morning

00:05:21.569 --> 00:05:23.069
do You prepare your oatmeal?

00:05:23.665 --> 00:05:28.634
So today I was super lazy and I just put nuts in it with a little bit of, um, honey.

00:05:29.064 --> 00:05:29.465
That's it.

00:05:29.754 --> 00:05:30.475
Super simple

00:05:31.037 --> 00:05:34.552
simple, efficient and, uh, Reliable.

00:05:35.102 --> 00:05:35.752
and mobile.

00:05:35.752 --> 00:05:36.912
Yeah.

00:05:39.632 --> 00:05:40.771
when I need it to be mobile.

00:05:42.182 --> 00:05:42.591
Sure.

00:05:42.762 --> 00:05:44.102
Actually, funny you speak of mobile.

00:05:44.172 --> 00:05:50.230
I half expected you to perhaps be in your, uh, camper van.

00:05:50.780 --> 00:05:57.132
I thought maybe, uh, you were taking advantage of, spring weather to, uh, get the climbing season rolling.

00:05:57.752 --> 00:06:00.432
Yeah, we, we just came back from Spain.

00:06:00.512 --> 00:06:03.021
So, um, we were climbing in Chulia.

00:06:03.072 --> 00:06:06.732
So I, I was, when we got back here, the weather was terrible.

00:06:08.031 --> 00:06:09.612
Yeah, as you know, it's really good right now.

00:06:09.622 --> 00:06:14.322
So we are kind of itchy to go here, but we have a bunch of work we're catching up on right now.

00:06:14.322 --> 00:06:16.362
So we're doing some clinics and things like that.

00:06:16.362 --> 00:06:19.674
So, climbing, I think next week though, get outside again.

00:06:19.713 --> 00:06:20.774
So we're happy.

00:06:21.064 --> 00:06:22.084
I'm happy spring is here.

00:06:22.670 --> 00:06:24.375
I feel we already have.

00:06:25.125 --> 00:06:30.925
There's one thing in common, which is I see sun peeking behind you.

00:06:31.665 --> 00:06:34.954
The day looks bright and it's the same here in San Francisco.

00:06:34.975 --> 00:06:38.644
It's a, it's a gloriously, uh, sunny, beautiful day.

00:06:39.610 --> 00:06:39.901
Yep.

00:06:39.951 --> 00:06:43.550
It's been, um, when we, so we've been really fortunate.

00:06:43.701 --> 00:06:45.161
My wife and I travel a fair amount.

00:06:45.211 --> 00:06:51.951
And, um, every time we've gone in the past two months climbing on these trips, when we leave Colorado, it snows.

00:06:52.350 --> 00:06:54.341
And then when we come back, it's like 70 degrees.

00:06:54.661 --> 00:06:56.641
So I think we're timing it right.

00:06:56.691 --> 00:07:01.841
And I think like now, I think for the foreseeable future here in Colorado, it's supposed to be really nice.

00:07:01.850 --> 00:07:03.581
So we're, I am not arguing.

00:07:03.620 --> 00:07:04.161
I love it.

00:07:04.261 --> 00:07:09.191
So yeah, when it's, I need the sun, I'm not one of those people who can do the, like the clouds all the time.

00:07:09.201 --> 00:07:10.811
I could never live in like Seattle.

00:07:10.821 --> 00:07:13.141
Cause I just, it's beautiful.

00:07:13.170 --> 00:07:15.691
Um, but I just need the, I need to see the sun a lot.

00:07:15.691 --> 00:07:18.911
So this Colorado kind of serves that in, in space.

00:07:18.920 --> 00:07:19.531
So I love it.

00:07:20.557 --> 00:07:32.156
I will say that I am more of a lizard when it comes to, uh, soaking, soaking in, uh, soaking in sunshine than, than

00:07:32.341 --> 00:07:33.701
It's a good way to say that.

00:07:33.922 --> 00:07:34.951
That's a good way to say that.

00:07:34.951 --> 00:07:35.492
I like that.

00:07:37.672 --> 00:07:38.201
Awesome.

00:07:38.799 --> 00:07:39.088
great.

00:07:39.436 --> 00:07:42.852
can you share a bit about who you are what do you do?

00:07:43.651 --> 00:07:44.622
Yeah, of course.

00:07:44.835 --> 00:07:47.465
I have been a climber pretty much most of my life.

00:07:47.465 --> 00:07:52.585
I started climbing right out of, um, like about halfway through my college, uh, career.

00:07:52.634 --> 00:07:58.944
A friend of mine got, was getting married and he did a bachelor party where we went climbing and I had never climbed before.

00:07:58.944 --> 00:08:04.090
I just, Was curious and went and, um, and I loved it from the very first day.

00:08:04.090 --> 00:08:09.560
And this was in Pennsylvania, like this scrappy little cliff in Pennsylvania, um, called Livesey rock.

00:08:09.579 --> 00:08:18.519
And we went out and to me, that was like as big as El Cap, you know, like it was, I think it's maybe 35 feet tall, but I mean, I not being a climber, I was like.

00:08:19.150 --> 00:08:20.480
amazed by what we were doing.

00:08:20.699 --> 00:08:24.009
But I really loved the, um, the engagement and the movement.

00:08:24.060 --> 00:08:25.840
And I wasn't a very athletic kid.

00:08:25.980 --> 00:08:27.980
Um, you know, I was an art student.

00:08:28.009 --> 00:08:30.310
I wasn't an outdoor person.

00:08:30.400 --> 00:08:34.809
I grew up climbing and, or camping and fishing with my, my dad and my brother.

00:08:34.829 --> 00:08:38.590
But, um, you know, I wouldn't have said like I was an outdoor person.

00:08:38.620 --> 00:08:40.730
I was, you know, I just did those things as a hobby.

00:08:41.079 --> 00:09:06.914
And then we went climbing and I was like, It just kind of clicked in my something in my brain just clicked and I just remember thinking this is what I want to do now, so I started climbing with this buddy who was at that bachelor party and then he kind of passed me on to this other individual because you know back then I've been climbing about 34 years back then there wasn't a climbing gym yet, so You kind of depended on other people to show you around.

00:09:07.314 --> 00:09:09.465
And that's what these, uh, friends did.

00:09:09.465 --> 00:09:16.605
They kind of taught me the basics of how to place gear and all that good stuff and, um, do it efficiently and, and do it well.

00:09:16.605 --> 00:09:18.424
So you don't, you're not pulling gear and.

00:09:18.845 --> 00:09:20.944
You know, hitting the ground, that's obviously what we don't want.

00:09:20.975 --> 00:09:35.764
So, um, it was really neat to kind of grow up in that time as a climber and, and as a human, I was just, you know, as I was maturing, I was also maturing with my climbing, um, and then moved to Colorado, uh, met my wife in Pennsylvania.

00:09:35.784 --> 00:09:42.435
She's actually from Pennsylvania as well, but we met, um, in a climbing gym that I was working in and then she was going to CSU.

00:09:43.125 --> 00:09:55.725
I moved out here, uh, to climb more and then we kind of started climbing together and got married and ended up having two kids who are now, um, young adults, which has been really fun as well.

00:09:55.754 --> 00:10:02.065
And, uh, and then Cindy and I, Cindy is a core climber as, as myself, she's been climbing as long as I have been.

00:10:02.475 --> 00:10:04.485
And, um, And we work together.

00:10:04.524 --> 00:10:07.664
We, we teach adaptive climbing clinics all over the country.

00:10:07.985 --> 00:10:30.774
Um, and in Puerto Rico and Hawaii and, uh, where we go and kind of show people with all different physical disabilities, how to climb and engage with the natural world and, uh, Kind of show them that by doing that, you're, you're the healing and just the, um, the peace of mind and quality of life you get from that we use climbing as that vehicle to get them there.

00:10:30.935 --> 00:10:36.995
So we're able to introduce all these individuals to climbing and just how beautiful it can be.

00:10:37.185 --> 00:10:44.495
And as you and I were chatting before, it's, it is a lifestyle sport and kind of showing them that lifestyle and saying this.

00:10:45.745 --> 00:10:48.024
Maybe it's not climbing, but maybe it is nature.

00:10:48.024 --> 00:10:51.325
So we want you to engage with both and then figure out what you like.

00:10:51.605 --> 00:10:55.085
Um, and then they can go, you know, do whatever they're going to do.

00:10:55.105 --> 00:11:01.014
But the nonprofit that we work with that is based in Denver, um, that's called Adaptive Adventures, and they.

00:11:01.284 --> 00:11:02.784
Offer different outdoor sports.

00:11:02.794 --> 00:11:11.075
So, you know, lots of the kind of the sports that we all know, you know, with the exception of surfing, it's, it's skiing, biking, climbing, paddling, things like that.

00:11:11.435 --> 00:11:13.575
Um, we can kind of then push them that way too.

00:11:13.575 --> 00:11:20.264
So they can still get that quality of life, but we're just kind of that entry point for them to show them, Hey, you can be doing these things.

00:11:20.995 --> 00:11:23.725
So that's kind of me in a nutshell up to today.

00:11:24.639 --> 00:11:26.299
I forgot to ask you, how old are you?

00:11:26.822 --> 00:11:29.937
58, getting old as dirt.

00:11:30.594 --> 00:11:35.709
You may say 58 and I will believe you because this has been recorded, but you do not look that old.

00:11:36.009 --> 00:11:37.308
a day over 45.

00:11:37.999 --> 00:11:39.519
I was thinking we are the same age.

00:11:40.048 --> 00:11:41.438
Oh, you're, you're wonderful.

00:11:41.469 --> 00:11:42.698
You're my new favorite person.

00:11:44.269 --> 00:11:53.318
we are recording this for those of us who are listening on audio, but yeah, Craig has this great, uh, head of hair, which I'm very jealous of.

00:11:55.399 --> 00:11:55.808
So hang on.

00:11:55.808 --> 00:11:59.719
So you started climbing 34 years ago in Pennsylvania.

00:11:59.769 --> 00:12:07.183
So you were Let's say you were 34 at that, uh, sorry, you were 24 Approximately.

00:12:07.609 --> 00:12:08.168
Approximately.

00:12:08.423 --> 00:12:12.653
is actually also about the same time I started climbing.

00:12:12.683 --> 00:12:18.293
I started climbing in the East Coast in North Carolina and at the New River Gorge in West Virginia.

00:12:18.293 --> 00:12:23.964
So yeah, maybe 24 is a good year to start climbing for those of us who still want to.

00:12:24.644 --> 00:12:26.764
That must be, it's weird too.

00:12:26.764 --> 00:12:39.614
Cause like we don't meet, um, I mean, oddly enough, we do know a lot of older athletes who are still doing their sport, but like there's not a lot, there's not like a ton of people who have been, who just have said, I'm going to do this my whole life.

00:12:39.943 --> 00:12:48.464
You know, I kind of, because we're in the climbing world and see them come in and out, you know, people will cycle in and then cycle out as, as things happen in their life.

00:12:48.793 --> 00:12:57.994
Um, we've, you know, been really fortunate just to be able to stay, you As a part of it and make it, you know, kind of that lifestyle that we like to pursue and chase.

00:12:58.384 --> 00:12:59.334
And it's still fun.

00:12:59.394 --> 00:13:04.134
I mean, as I'm sure you know, it's, you know, still, I love doing it still.

00:13:04.134 --> 00:13:06.714
It's even when it's bad, it's still good.

00:13:06.724 --> 00:13:09.504
So it's, it's a really fun thing to be a part of.

00:13:10.274 --> 00:13:10.664
Sure.

00:13:10.995 --> 00:13:26.553
And then you were savvy enough to meet your life partner at the climbing gym, which makes, makes for, uh, I would say, uh, unified, uh, approach to, uh, to spending one's time.

00:13:27.063 --> 00:13:27.903
Very much so.

00:13:28.629 --> 00:13:31.121
What did you study in school or college?

00:13:31.172 --> 00:13:34.701
And what did you think you would be doing as an adult?

00:13:34.902 --> 00:13:36.581
Or what did you want to be doing as an adult?

00:13:36.971 --> 00:13:39.721
Before climate came over and took over, uh,

00:13:40.662 --> 00:13:49.451
well, so I, I studied design and photography, um, graphic design and photography and, uh, was working as a photographer.

00:13:49.451 --> 00:13:52.111
I worked for Associated Press for about eight years in Philly.

00:13:52.491 --> 00:14:02.182
Um, and then I worked for, I, I did, I did news for a long time thinking I wanted to stay there, but then that, that's a bit of a grind.

00:14:02.437 --> 00:14:04.937
And I wasn't really climbing as much when I was doing that.

00:14:04.966 --> 00:14:07.366
And then I realized, you know what?

00:14:07.387 --> 00:14:11.966
I don't want to be getting shot at and see all the things I was seeing.

00:14:11.966 --> 00:14:23.147
So I, I left when I came out here, um, actually the Associated Press app, the person I worked for in Philly said, I can connect you to the ones in Denver, but I passed.

00:14:23.147 --> 00:14:27.346
And I was like, I think I'm going to just move on now and do what, uh, something else.

00:14:27.496 --> 00:14:30.907
And so I thought I wanted to do a climbing photography.

00:14:31.221 --> 00:14:38.001
And I came out here and I met Craig Lubin, who was a force of nature here in, in the front range.

00:14:38.331 --> 00:14:40.662
Um, and Craig and I became fast friends.

00:14:40.682 --> 00:14:43.111
Um, Cindy already knew him.

00:14:43.111 --> 00:14:49.831
So I was, that's how I got introduced to him, but he and I were, were ended up becoming good friends and he was into photography as well.

00:14:49.831 --> 00:14:51.522
So he and I would kind of work.

00:14:51.692 --> 00:14:52.062
Together.

00:14:52.062 --> 00:14:54.361
And he was writing for climbing magazine at the time.

00:14:54.692 --> 00:14:57.822
So I figured, okay, I'm just going to do that.

00:14:57.882 --> 00:15:05.331
Um, but then I quickly realized when you're a climbing photographer, and this is why I have a ton of respect for any climbing photographer I work with.

00:15:05.731 --> 00:15:08.262
You work your ass off.

00:15:09.022 --> 00:15:10.412
It is hard work.

00:15:10.652 --> 00:15:11.341
And so.

00:15:11.822 --> 00:15:15.012
I realized I wanted to be climbing and not taking pictures.

00:15:15.032 --> 00:15:25.001
And so Craig and I, I shot Craig a bunch and Craig would shoot me and he would write things, we would do things together, but I quickly realized, okay, I don't, this is not what I want to be doing.

00:15:25.241 --> 00:15:31.961
And so I took my design degree and, uh, my photo degree and I started working kind of more in publishing where I could kind of.

00:15:32.272 --> 00:15:36.812
Do stuff for magazines, not in the climbing world, um, but like product photography.

00:15:36.812 --> 00:15:40.361
I did that for a long time and then just lifestyle photography.

00:15:40.491 --> 00:15:46.942
And so I was doing those in conjunction with my climbing and then climbing just kept getting bigger and bigger in my life.

00:15:46.971 --> 00:15:51.782
And photography kind of was, was holding its own cause that's how I supported myself.

00:15:52.121 --> 00:15:56.721
Um, but I just didn't, I didn't know what I wanted to do after that.

00:15:56.721 --> 00:16:01.427
I just was kind of, Opening and closing as, as I was moving through life.

00:16:01.716 --> 00:16:10.206
Um, and then of course I had, you know, a big change in my life in, in 2002 that, that kind of definitely pivoted me and redirected me.

00:16:10.297 --> 00:16:18.876
But, you know, the design piece, I still feel like I use my design background just because I understand what people are saying when they're talking about it and marketing and things like that.

00:16:18.887 --> 00:16:19.537
So I think that's.

00:16:20.032 --> 00:16:32.422
This only helped me, but now I, I haven't, this is embarrassing, but I haven't picked up a camera other than my iPhone in, oh my gosh, I actually, I couldn't tell you, I couldn't tell you when I did it last.

00:16:32.882 --> 00:16:33.512
That's terrible.

00:16:33.812 --> 00:16:35.522
Um, but it's been a long time.

00:16:35.642 --> 00:16:35.981
Yeah,

00:16:36.782 --> 00:16:46.855
you are certainly not the first person to, uh, put your, uh, your larger camera to rest in favor of, uh, a smartphone camera.

00:16:47.586 --> 00:16:50.656
Many of us are guilty of guilty of doing that.

00:16:51.115 --> 00:16:51.466
And.

00:16:51.784 --> 00:16:52.674
You are so right.

00:16:52.913 --> 00:17:06.356
Mad props to the luminaries amongst us who are able to juggle both taking photos and climbing at the same time and do them both with such finesse.

00:17:06.386 --> 00:18:06.426
It is, A testament of, I don't know,

00:18:06.798 --> 00:18:06.958
It

00:18:07.093 --> 00:18:10.272
grit, hard work and, uh, talent, I think.

00:18:10.587 --> 00:18:13.928
I watched them work and I'm just, you know, I'm in awe.

00:18:13.948 --> 00:18:18.438
Like, I mean, I've climbed out cap with photographers like Mikey Schaefer and James Q.

00:18:18.438 --> 00:18:26.008
Martin, and you watch those guys on a rope and it's just the amount of efficiency and professionalism is.

00:18:26.472 --> 00:18:28.813
And fitness, just like general fitness.

00:18:29.022 --> 00:18:30.702
Those guys are monsters.

00:18:30.762 --> 00:18:37.123
And yet you just, people see the photo and they're like, oh, that's cool, but it's like, oh my God, you know what went into that?

00:18:37.123 --> 00:18:39.853
That is like some serious work right there.

00:18:39.913 --> 00:18:41.863
Um, so yeah, I'm right there with you.

00:18:41.863 --> 00:18:44.232
Mad, mad props to all the things they do.

00:18:44.657 --> 00:19:00.721
Craig, you just alluded to this life changing event that transpired in 2002 that perhaps began your journey as an adaptive climbing athlete.

00:19:01.240 --> 00:19:13.185
If you're comfortable sharing, could you tell us a little bit about what happened And how it, uh, impacted your approach to climbing and to your life.

00:19:13.565 --> 00:19:13.985
Yeah.

00:19:13.990 --> 00:19:15.035
Of, of course.

00:19:15.065 --> 00:19:18.634
Um, it was 2002 and I had been climbing, you know.

00:19:19.519 --> 00:19:39.766
14 or so years at the I'm not sure actually how much but um was here in Colorado and went to Rocky Mountain National Park with a really good friend of ours, who I'm still really good friends with as well and he he's older is slightly older than me, probably three years older than me, um, had been climbing longer than me at that point, um, and he just said, hey, let's go do this.

00:19:39.990 --> 00:19:52.941
thing way out on Sundance buttress, which, uh, and on lumpy ridge, it's, it's in, in Estes park, basically, but it's this beautiful line of cliffs that run out the valley and Sundance buttress is the last escarpment.

00:19:53.250 --> 00:19:54.451
And we kind of hiked out.

00:19:54.451 --> 00:19:55.341
It's a pretty far hike.

00:19:55.341 --> 00:20:00.461
It's like 45 minutes or an hour on this flat trail, then heading up this talus cone.

00:20:00.931 --> 00:20:03.711
And we went out and we're going to do this thing that he had.

00:20:03.875 --> 00:20:25.855
Um, I think he had top roped it the year before it's called white man and it's an 11c Kind of discontinuous crack system that runs up to a ledge and it's it's four pitches But the money pitch is the first pitch and so most people just do that 11c first pitch And so we kind of went out and he said I don't want to lead it He's like, but I do want to work on it and then lead it.

00:20:25.865 --> 00:20:28.496
So he's like I said, yeah, gladly lead it.

00:20:28.506 --> 00:20:30.756
We had been climbing a bunch of different things in the park.

00:20:31.196 --> 00:20:34.746
Um, cause at that time my kids were young, my kids were two and four.

00:20:35.066 --> 00:20:39.546
So Cindy had run this, um, 50 K trail race the day before in Leadville.

00:20:39.546 --> 00:20:42.875
So she was taking a rest day and she, so we would, we would kind of like.

00:20:43.196 --> 00:20:46.956
Switch back and forth, you know, and so Steve and I went up there.

00:20:46.956 --> 00:20:51.206
We hiked in racked up and It totally normal day.

00:20:51.216 --> 00:21:12.414
It was just one of those weird You feel like a bit nervous But you can't tell if it's like nerves or you're just excited to be getting on something new and I think it was a mix Of both, you know, I just had this weird little little slightly off feeling Tied in and I you know the first ten or so feet then I kind of got in that rhythm of you know good crack climb You're enjoying yourself.

00:21:12.605 --> 00:21:20.095
Um, the gear is kinda tricky on it cause it's like these weird flappy pieces of granite that you have to like feed the cams behind.

00:21:20.095 --> 00:21:22.025
So you can, it's a little bit of blind placements.

00:21:22.295 --> 00:21:24.585
Um, but it just makes it more challenging and fun.

00:21:24.615 --> 00:21:31.065
And so, um, led the climb, got to the anchor and the anchor is, is a hundred feet off the deck.

00:21:31.065 --> 00:21:33.235
It's a, it's a small little ledge that you can step.

00:21:33.245 --> 00:21:37.750
Your, your front of your feet are on the ledge and you're, it's narrow that you're kind of hanging over.

00:21:37.972 --> 00:21:41.063
so it's about six inches wide by, I don't know, three feet long.

00:21:41.893 --> 00:21:44.113
And there's a two bolts up there.

00:21:44.113 --> 00:21:45.163
It's a drilled anchor.

00:21:45.503 --> 00:21:47.103
And so I got up there, clipped in.

00:21:47.353 --> 00:21:52.803
And what he and I had talked about was he said, I want to top rope it to just get the moves and feel it again.

00:21:53.103 --> 00:21:57.413
And then I think he, the idea was he was going to, we would drop the rope and then he would lead it.

00:21:57.643 --> 00:22:01.813
So I thought in, we never, communicated this piece.

00:22:01.813 --> 00:22:05.113
This is where it kind of got off, you know, off the rails.

00:22:06.243 --> 00:22:15.813
When I heard top rope, I was thinking, okay, I'm going to, Be lowered and he'll alay him from the ground and he was thinking he was gonna second the pitch and come up and then we'd wrap off together.

00:22:16.023 --> 00:22:19.472
And then he would, the rope would all, you know, we would be set up for a top rope.

00:22:19.743 --> 00:22:21.692
So I rigged it for a lower.

00:22:21.692 --> 00:22:26.573
So basically took two long slings, equalized them, and then ran my rope through there.

00:22:26.692 --> 00:22:28.613
I was still clipped in directly to the anchor.

00:22:28.843 --> 00:22:33.343
Um, and the anchor sits about four feet from the actual climb.

00:22:33.343 --> 00:22:36.733
So you get up on this ledge and then you have to traverse slightly over.

00:22:37.053 --> 00:22:42.313
So there's a bit of a bend, you know, the ropes kind of traveling to your right and then down that a hundred feet.

00:22:42.682 --> 00:22:51.583
So, um, I yelled down to Steve and I said, okay, all you, he, and at that point we were using kind of slang just because we weren't, number one, I couldn't see him.

00:22:51.863 --> 00:22:55.883
And so I just yelled down, okay, I'm all, you know, I'm ready.

00:22:55.883 --> 00:22:56.682
I'm good.

00:22:56.942 --> 00:22:59.263
And he said, okay, you're all good.

00:22:59.343 --> 00:23:05.413
He thought, okay, Craig's going to not belay me up and I'll get to the anchor and we'll come down together.

00:23:05.843 --> 00:23:07.523
I heard, okay, you're all good.

00:23:08.192 --> 00:23:13.722
So I reached over one last time and I kind of pulled on the rope to see if I felt him, you know, felt the friction back.

00:23:14.033 --> 00:23:17.773
And I did, I felt like, you know, I felt some kind of pull going back.

00:23:17.863 --> 00:23:21.682
What that really was, was a hundred feet of rope hanging down through.

00:23:21.958 --> 00:23:24.018
You know, 10 pieces of gear that I had clipped.

00:23:24.388 --> 00:23:26.938
So I felt tension and I thought that's him.

00:23:26.958 --> 00:23:29.948
So because I couldn't see him, I just pulled in unclipped.

00:23:30.538 --> 00:23:32.748
Sat back and I just started falling.

00:23:33.067 --> 00:23:34.728
And so it's weird.

00:23:34.728 --> 00:23:39.567
Like I've played this in my head a lot of times, you know, because it was such a big accident.

00:23:40.048 --> 00:23:44.608
And when I started to fall, I thought, Oh, he must have like a loop of slack out.

00:23:44.608 --> 00:23:45.398
You know, maybe he was like.

00:23:45.738 --> 00:23:46.668
Putting his shoes on.

00:23:46.688 --> 00:23:50.138
I didn't know what was going on, moving a bag or who knows, right?

00:23:50.788 --> 00:23:52.448
Your brain starts thinking really quickly.

00:23:52.448 --> 00:23:55.888
Like you're, you're kind of doing, you're assessing what's happening.

00:23:56.218 --> 00:23:59.208
And so I thought, okay, it's going to snap tight here any second.

00:23:59.548 --> 00:24:05.528
But then I started kind of picking up speed and I thought, Oh, maybe he like fell and is getting pulled.

00:24:05.847 --> 00:24:07.888
Cause that actually happened to me at shelf road.

00:24:07.888 --> 00:24:14.018
One year, a buddy of mine was barefoot and he was bullying him when I popped off and he got drug a little bit.

00:24:14.018 --> 00:24:14.608
Cause his feet.

00:24:16.173 --> 00:24:18.173
Dougan to the rocks and kind of it kind of hurt his feet.

00:24:18.173 --> 00:24:19.603
So he kind of got pulled by me.

00:24:19.962 --> 00:24:21.643
So I thought, Oh, maybe that's happening.

00:24:21.643 --> 00:24:23.173
And I'm it's still in your brain.

00:24:23.173 --> 00:24:24.783
You're thinking I am going to stop.

00:24:25.192 --> 00:24:29.093
And then I realized I'm just picking up speed and I'm going faster and faster.

00:24:29.093 --> 00:24:30.133
I'm not stopping.

00:24:30.133 --> 00:24:37.442
So The climb is steep, but it's really kind of, there's a lot of things that you could bump into on the way down.

00:24:37.442 --> 00:24:39.753
So I wanted to kind of get away from the wall.

00:24:40.353 --> 00:24:47.263
And the last thing that I remember is seeing the trees to my left, because the climb sits on a slanted hill.

00:24:47.293 --> 00:24:49.298
So I could see this steep cliff.

00:24:49.868 --> 00:24:54.228
kind of green blur coming, and I just pushed to get away from the cliff.

00:24:54.228 --> 00:25:04.248
So I, both hands, and that took me out and I could, I actually turned and could see, but what it did was it also tipped me because the, just the momentum I created after that.

00:25:04.468 --> 00:25:07.008
So I was, you know, going down and then tipping sideways.

00:25:07.048 --> 00:25:10.758
And I started, I was falling most of the, that hundred feet sideways.

00:25:11.038 --> 00:25:16.368
Um, but about 20 feet from the ground, right where the climb starts, there was a dead end.

00:25:16.528 --> 00:25:20.628
Pine tree that was leaning against the cliff and I clipped it with my head.

00:25:21.067 --> 00:25:31.228
And so that tree stood me back up to standing basically perfectly perfect standing position, which from that height is probably the only way you can actually survive.

00:25:31.268 --> 00:25:35.118
Because if you land sideways, you just, you know, your head's going to get smashed.

00:25:35.118 --> 00:25:36.728
You're going to crush all your internal organs.

00:25:37.378 --> 00:25:41.567
I landed standing like leaning slightly to the right.

00:25:41.567 --> 00:25:46.097
And I know that because my right side got Broken more than my left side.

00:25:46.538 --> 00:25:55.817
And when I hit, I hit so hard that the climbing shoes I had on exploded and all the bone, like I had calc, uh, compound fractures of both legs.

00:25:55.858 --> 00:26:04.513
So on the lower part of my legs where your ankles kind of come into your tibia and your fibular, Um, that all just exploded and my heels exploded.

00:26:04.553 --> 00:26:08.643
Um, shoes exploded, uh, severed the artery in my right leg.

00:26:09.083 --> 00:26:11.583
So that shockwave though has to go somewhere.

00:26:11.583 --> 00:26:12.983
It doesn't just like dissipate.

00:26:13.083 --> 00:26:17.673
So it goes up your body and it went up and, uh, broke my back.

00:26:17.673 --> 00:26:21.063
It crushed my back at L2, which is kind of through your belly button here.

00:26:21.504 --> 00:26:22.953
and that hit so hard.

00:26:22.953 --> 00:26:24.484
It, it, I powdered it, just kind of.

00:26:24.828 --> 00:26:25.589
Disappeared.

00:26:26.259 --> 00:26:40.489
It just keeps moving and it broke the ribs on my right side, um, hit my elbow and broke the bursa sacs on my elbow, tore up my shoulder and then as it exited, it snapped my, broke my neck at C5, C6, which is right here, uh, through your Adam's apple.

00:26:40.859 --> 00:26:48.869
And then I just hit and I just crumpled over and Steve was standing, I don't know, 10 feet away and he was just.

00:26:49.538 --> 00:27:12.749
Obviously shocked and ran over and he said, you know, because I severed the artery in my leg, I was bleeding really badly and he has some first aid training, luckily, and so he grabbed a sling off the rack and put a tourniquet on my leg really quick with a stick, you know, just kind of twisted it, which probably in many ways, I think, saved my life because I would have just bled out and we were pretty far back in the back.

00:27:12.788 --> 00:27:13.788
I mean, it's a pretty Bye.

00:27:14.119 --> 00:27:15.479
Long way back there.

00:27:15.887 --> 00:27:22.616
and Steve, this is, uh, 2002, Steve had a cell phone with him, but like back then, like we didn't really use cell phones that much.

00:27:22.616 --> 00:27:25.167
I mean, you had it, but you didn't really use it that much.

00:27:25.537 --> 00:27:28.517
And next to a Sundance is about a thousand feet.

00:27:28.547 --> 00:27:29.856
It's a big piece of rock.

00:27:29.917 --> 00:27:36.167
And, you know, in the park, in the middle of nowhere, and he flips it open and got a cell phone signal and ended up.

00:27:36.372 --> 00:27:51.231
Getting connected to 9 1 1, and then 9 1 1 connected him to Rocky Mountain Rescue, and the guy who picked up, this is when it just like gets super trippy, the guy who picked up the phone at Rocky Mountain Rescue was a climber, and he was like, what climb are you at?

00:27:51.302 --> 00:27:54.282
And he told him, and he's like, I know right where you are, do not move.

00:27:54.582 --> 00:27:58.852
And so this guy, Eric Gabriel, was literally at my side.

00:27:59.501 --> 00:28:01.461
I hit the ground at around 2 30.

00:28:01.711 --> 00:28:08.172
This guy was at my side 45 minutes later, which is unheard of in that, in the back country, it's just crazy to me.

00:28:08.552 --> 00:28:14.251
And so he, he got there and started doing the initial assessment, realized, Oh my God, this guy is.

00:28:15.272 --> 00:28:16.062
And he's like, I knew it.

00:28:16.092 --> 00:28:17.662
We had to get you out of there really fast.

00:28:17.662 --> 00:28:27.199
And so they put together a rescue and, it took about seven hours, but they got a helicopter to come in, uh, that they flighted me to Fort Collins.

00:28:27.894 --> 00:28:29.855
I was in intensive care for a week.

00:28:29.894 --> 00:28:33.134
Um, cause they didn't think I would survive the night just because of all the injuries.

00:28:33.164 --> 00:28:41.055
And they told my wife, you know, they fused my back right away from L1 through four, took all the debridement out, you know, you go in and kind of clean out your spine.

00:28:41.799 --> 00:28:45.930
But then they said, you know, we're just going to wait because He's so, he's got so many injuries.

00:28:45.930 --> 00:28:47.220
We're just going to see if he survives.

00:28:48.029 --> 00:28:49.180
I did obviously.

00:28:49.230 --> 00:28:57.990
And then basically for the next three months, um, I would just have surgery after surgery after surgery, just kind of fix what I had, you know, broken.

00:28:58.600 --> 00:29:02.029
Um, and then at three, you know, they, three months, they kind of send you home.

00:29:02.100 --> 00:29:04.160
They, they get you as good as they're going to get you.

00:29:04.470 --> 00:29:10.560
Um, I went home with using a Walker, uh, both legs in a cast back, still in a cast.

00:29:11.003 --> 00:29:22.013
neck was in a C collar and you then start to try to like piece your life back together because there's no, for me, there wasn't like a, Oh, I'm going to call this person and talk to them.

00:29:22.432 --> 00:29:24.253
I didn't know anyone who got hurt that bad.

00:29:24.263 --> 00:29:32.373
So, um, the next year pretty much was me just trying to like sort out, okay, who am I, what just happened?

00:29:32.393 --> 00:29:34.363
You know, you're trying to piece that together as well.

00:29:34.673 --> 00:29:48.073
And then my wife and I were like trying to figure out, I said to her, Or actually she said to me, we obviously talked about climbing when I was in the hospital and she said if you want to climb again I totally understand that and we'll help you do that.

00:29:48.573 --> 00:29:52.753
If you don't want to climb again, I also understand that and that's fine.

00:29:52.803 --> 00:29:53.972
You can decide to do that.

00:29:53.972 --> 00:29:54.633
It's up to you.

00:29:55.103 --> 00:30:04.182
But I feel like, um, because she was able to kind of introduce that thought back to me, it made me go, Oh, I do miss climbing.

00:30:04.182 --> 00:30:08.543
I missed, you know, I would talk to our friends when they would visit and, you know, I missed being out there.

00:30:08.962 --> 00:30:10.962
So there was like that curiosity still.

00:30:11.692 --> 00:30:13.233
Um, I just didn't know how I would do it.

00:30:13.243 --> 00:30:14.773
I had no freaking clue.

00:30:15.313 --> 00:30:23.198
And, um, then right around 18 months after the accident, my leg, my right leg, was still in a cast.

00:30:23.238 --> 00:30:30.018
Um, I had done 11 surgeries on it and my orthopedic was like, we, that's it.

00:30:30.067 --> 00:30:32.688
Like we can't, you broke it so bad.

00:30:32.698 --> 00:30:34.248
There's nothing in there really.

00:30:34.248 --> 00:30:39.428
So you're either going to do live your life like this in a cast the rest of your life.

00:30:40.038 --> 00:30:51.053
I was 34 at the time, or You could do something different and they don't really ever offer you like amputation that that's not what they're there for you need to get there on your own.

00:30:51.123 --> 00:30:58.702
Um, and I talked to a couple of different people who had, who would have been amputated and we're living full lives and athletes.

00:30:58.702 --> 00:31:02.523
And, um, I just thought, you know what, I'm going to do that and went in and.

00:31:02.722 --> 00:31:05.932
Talked to him, my orthopedic, and he said, you're doing the right thing.

00:31:06.073 --> 00:31:11.942
And so December 3rd, um, the year after the accident, I went in and amputated.

00:31:12.583 --> 00:31:23.553
And then that kind of started this whole new direction for me because I kind of went back to climbing about four months later, top roping with, with Cindy and the kids.

00:31:23.962 --> 00:31:27.813
And that kind of made me realize, Oh, I still love doing this.

00:31:28.258 --> 00:31:30.468
I just have to figure out like, how do I do it now?

00:31:30.518 --> 00:31:31.888
Cause I'm completely different.

00:31:31.888 --> 00:31:33.468
So what, what does that look like?

00:31:33.468 --> 00:31:34.577
What is my new normal?

00:31:34.577 --> 00:31:37.587
And how do I integrate that into the climbing world that I love?

00:31:37.798 --> 00:31:50.939
And that, that started me kind of in the direction that I've been in now for the past, gosh, 20 years, where I'm just learning to interface with this new body and prosthetic and things like that.

00:31:51.139 --> 00:31:56.409
Challenge is how do I make that into still being able to climb, still being able to enjoy climbing.

00:31:56.409 --> 00:31:56.919
And now.

00:31:57.534 --> 00:31:59.453
be able to show other people what climbing is like.

00:31:59.453 --> 00:32:17.673
So it, it definitely was a pivot, a big change for me, but now in retrospect, it's like, I mean, I wouldn't want to fall off a cliff again, no way, but I do, I do appreciate what it has done for me in my life now and the direction that it has pushed me.

00:32:18.014 --> 00:32:20.494
So to get me here today,

00:32:21.776 --> 00:32:38.218
Craigeg, I appreciate you taking us through that, uh, story, even though I'm sure you've had to recount some of these, uh, details many, many times over the last couple of decades.

00:32:38.817 --> 00:32:39.228
sure.

00:32:39.408 --> 00:32:45.508
I'm going to ask you a couple of questions about this experience.

00:32:46.218 --> 00:32:53.265
You packed it all into this nice little, uh, essay for us, but there are so many things that happened.

00:32:54.038 --> 00:33:02.619
Some of the details are for sure, I mean, the whole story is mind boggling and some of the details are worth getting into just a little bit.

00:33:03.139 --> 00:33:07.929
The one thing that I want to call out is, so this is 2002.

00:33:08.278 --> 00:33:12.169
This is before cell phones became the new normal.

00:33:12.514 --> 00:33:13.474
Yes, very much.

00:33:14.229 --> 00:33:23.334
the fact, the fact that you were out in the back country, and you were able to receive a phone signal

00:33:23.544 --> 00:33:24.173
Yes.

00:33:25.104 --> 00:33:28.903
and connect to somebody who understood your location.

00:33:28.903 --> 00:33:35.114
So again, I think for people, people don't realize this, but back then you couldn't just share your location on your phone.

00:33:35.644 --> 00:33:42.284
Like you could just triangulate somebody by just sharing that thing and have somebody just come and get you, you know, it didn't work like that.

00:33:42.729 --> 00:33:43.349
Exactly.

00:33:43.803 --> 00:33:56.233
I had, um, so a little, maybe a decade after your accident, I had a little accident myself, nothing like what you went through, but I was climbing with a friend at Lover's Leap in California.

00:33:56.533 --> 00:33:57.873
which you might know about.

00:33:57.962 --> 00:33:59.853
It's this crag by Tahoe.

00:34:00.593 --> 00:34:01.653
And it's funny.

00:34:01.673 --> 00:34:08.808
We also had a little climbing accident and we had to call rescue services, but it's funny.

00:34:08.818 --> 00:34:15.199
We did not, you cannot get, maybe now it's changed, but back then you could not get signal at the bottom of the cliff,

00:34:15.673 --> 00:34:16.063
Sure.

00:34:17.659 --> 00:34:26.188
two thirds our way up this, I forget how tall Lovers Leap is, but anyway, two thirds up this, let's say this 500 foot phase.

00:34:26.969 --> 00:34:37.349
My phone was working we could connect to somebody and have somebody guide us to do a bit of, yeah, to stabilize us and then help us come down.

00:34:37.679 --> 00:34:43.478
But it is, I guess some of us are lucky.

00:34:43.478 --> 00:34:45.958
I mean, we can also be extremely unlucky.

00:34:45.958 --> 00:34:50.818
Like what you, what happened to you would not want to wish that upon anybody.

00:34:50.889 --> 00:34:59.219
But in, in, in some ways, do you ever like count your blessings in a way where you're like, Oh my God, I went through this.

00:34:59.509 --> 00:35:01.239
This totally freak accident.

00:35:01.248 --> 00:35:09.248
People get people, you know, millions, I don't know, thousands of talk probes are set up world over maybe every day.

00:35:09.768 --> 00:35:14.028
And you ended up on this wrong side.

00:35:14.038 --> 00:35:15.489
This really, really freak.

00:35:15.844 --> 00:35:16.563
Situation.

00:35:16.563 --> 00:35:30.483
But do you ever think about the fact that it could have just had your partner not had that bit of first aid, um, knowledge and uh, and awareness and all these other things with the cell phone signal and the rescue not come together?

00:35:30.753 --> 00:35:35.304
Things could have gone more south than they already had.

00:35:35.887 --> 00:35:36.557
Absolutely.

00:35:36.557 --> 00:35:45.907
I mean, I am constantly in awe of all the things that lined up because like you said, like you can, you couldn't just drop a pin and say, I'm here.

00:35:46.168 --> 00:35:54.337
It's like this, the, the guy knew, like, not only did he know where we were, he actually knew how to access it through this ranch.

00:35:54.347 --> 00:35:59.597
It's called the McCraigor ranch, which is the, basically the whole Valley and Estes is owned by this family.

00:36:00.387 --> 00:36:02.148
They had permission to go through a gate.

00:36:02.228 --> 00:36:06.273
So he's like, Not only did he know like, okay, you're at the base of white man on Sundance.

00:36:06.483 --> 00:36:07.422
I know where that is.

00:36:07.962 --> 00:36:12.942
I know how to drive my truck to the base of the talus is what he did.

00:36:12.942 --> 00:36:14.362
And then he could run up the hill.

00:36:14.572 --> 00:36:17.592
So he only had to do like a 10 minute approach with a pack on.

00:36:18.022 --> 00:36:21.857
Whereas we had to hike in, like I said, like 45 minutes to an hour to get to the, to the.

00:36:22.617 --> 00:36:25.977
Area we were in this guy, Eric knew exactly how to get there.

00:36:25.977 --> 00:36:34.457
So everything from like the, the helicopter being able to land before dark, cause they have to fly by line of sight in the camp in that Valley.

00:36:34.757 --> 00:36:40.677
Um, and they, and I remember them saying that to me, like, if we don't get you out by dark, we have to drive you.

00:36:40.748 --> 00:36:50.268
So, and if we drive you, this is not what they say to you, but like in now later, you learn all these things, you know, if they have to drive that obviously takes a lot more time.

00:36:50.857 --> 00:36:55.567
With a person who has all this heavy trauma and is bleeding, probably not going to survive.

00:36:55.577 --> 00:36:59.357
So a helicopter is, is just like the thing you need to get on.

00:36:59.617 --> 00:37:11.227
And so they were able to get me in a helicopter before dark so that to get me to the level of care that I needed, you know, just all of those things lined up and I'm just constantly in awe of that.

00:37:11.248 --> 00:37:13.217
And, um, and I'm so grateful for.

00:37:13.862 --> 00:37:17.782
Anyone who was involved with that, who, you know, came and helped me.

00:37:17.782 --> 00:37:22.802
And, and I, and I, to this day, I bump into people who were part of that.

00:37:23.222 --> 00:37:25.472
And we'll just start that we'll kind of reminisce a little bit.

00:37:25.472 --> 00:37:29.472
And it is so humbling to me to just go, holy crap, you know, thank you.

00:37:30.167 --> 00:37:33.077
Just for being there and doing your, what you think is your job.

00:37:33.087 --> 00:37:35.797
But like you are literally saving people's lives.

00:37:35.797 --> 00:37:39.027
And that, that is so humbling to have been on the other side of that.

00:37:39.027 --> 00:37:43.467
And, and then all these years look back and go, God, that was insane.

00:37:43.557 --> 00:37:48.917
Um, and it still baffles me how crazy it is, even though it's me and I lived it.

00:37:49.047 --> 00:37:51.407
It's, it's still baffles me when I see.

00:37:52.248 --> 00:37:57.337
When I see Sundance, when I drive by, you know, cause we're in that area all the time, not all the time, but quite often.

00:37:57.667 --> 00:38:01.307
And, you know, you look at it and you're like, cause like you said, it could have turned.

00:38:01.927 --> 00:38:11.687
So many other ways and, and didn't, and, you know, I'm just, just so grateful to, to still be here doing what I'm doing and being part of the community that I am.

00:38:11.697 --> 00:38:13.557
So, yeah, it's not lost on me.

00:38:13.557 --> 00:38:14.857
I'm, I'm amazed by it all.

00:38:15.395 --> 00:38:21.592
When I had my little mini epic, I also was carried out in a litter.

00:38:22.467 --> 00:38:31.527
Over the talus, whatever at, uh, that was the only, because they wanted to be sure that, um, I wasn't hurt any more badly than it seemed to Ben.

00:38:31.538 --> 00:39:32.707
Like I had, you know, something's going on, but honestly, like me.

00:39:32.807 --> 00:39:36.177
So I grew up overseas, grew up in India and came here as an immigrant.

00:39:36.177 --> 00:39:47.038
I think for the first time, it really struck me how grateful I am to this country and to volunteers who do this as a, as a public service.

00:39:47.047 --> 00:39:48.047
So I was.

00:39:48.870 --> 00:39:49.910
bowled over by emotion.

00:39:49.910 --> 00:39:55.430
I'm like, Oh my God, like to, to have this, uh, help in times of, uh, need.

00:39:56.590 --> 00:39:57.150
Yeah, really.

00:39:57.150 --> 00:40:02.460
Uh, I mean, God, you know, America has its problems, but God bless America for, uh,

00:40:02.680 --> 00:40:03.471
I agree.

00:40:04.030 --> 00:40:06.010
I, I, I totally agree, man.

00:40:06.020 --> 00:40:08.610
Like everything you just said, I'm like a hundred percent.

00:40:08.880 --> 00:40:10.620
Yes, that is very true.

00:40:11.210 --> 00:40:11.730
All of it.

00:40:12.641 --> 00:40:28.151
one other point that I think is worth, uh, explaining to many people here who may not climb as much is a lot of these places in the backcountry, they're not often connected by roads, by trails, by signs for people to be able to find other people.

00:40:28.541 --> 00:40:32.311
You know, you are breaking trail often to get to the base of a climb.

00:40:32.321 --> 00:40:35.442
You are going places where very few people go.

00:40:35.761 --> 00:40:40.755
So again, the fact that this person knew how to, cross through all kinds of things to, you know.

00:40:40.955 --> 00:40:43.655
Organize this rescue is, is incredible.

00:40:44.445 --> 00:40:52.530
Moving on a little bit, Craig, you made this insane decision to voluntarily subject yourself to amputation.

00:40:53.244 --> 00:40:56.924
I want to understand like the choices.

00:40:57.564 --> 00:40:59.024
that you were facing.

00:40:59.154 --> 00:41:02.068
One is you would have continued on.

00:41:02.128 --> 00:41:07.418
And I think besides the leg, you, your body was also impacted in other ways.

00:41:07.978 --> 00:41:08.308
Sure.

00:41:08.858 --> 00:41:19.622
Had you carried on without the amputation and maybe you were able to get some data from other people versus the decision to actually go through the amputation.

00:41:19.962 --> 00:41:31.547
Also, after having spoken to people, you made some trade offs hindsight knock on wood, like those have worked out well, but had you not gone through that, what kind of life would you be facing?

00:41:31.547 --> 00:41:36.742
And what kind of, yeah, what kind of, limitations would you have had today?

00:41:37.707 --> 00:41:46.477
And so my, my right leg, my left leg, they, they took the hardware out of, so they, you know, they, they put it in to kind of get it to heal and then they take, they remove it.

00:41:46.797 --> 00:41:56.667
My right leg, all the hardware was, Left in just because there wasn't enough bone density or even bones that connected that it couldn't hold its own shape.

00:41:56.917 --> 00:41:58.797
So they kind of shaped it with metal.

00:41:58.867 --> 00:42:16.502
Um, so I would have had to, had I not amputated the, the, the walking boot that they made for me was like a custom hard shell case that went over my whole foot and ankle and kind of came about halfway up my leg to give it stability and give it some kind of platform to, to be able to put it on.

00:42:17.062 --> 00:42:18.382
Stand on and move.

00:42:18.712 --> 00:42:24.822
Um, my orthopedic told me, you know, without that on, I could walk like on a carpeted floor.

00:42:25.112 --> 00:42:26.413
That was perfectly flat.

00:42:26.413 --> 00:42:28.913
I could walk barefoot on that, right?

00:42:28.972 --> 00:42:30.812
But like I couldn't go very far.

00:42:30.812 --> 00:42:34.092
I could maybe walk across the house and then it would just hurt too much.

00:42:34.382 --> 00:42:45.572
Um, that would have just progressed and gotten worse because the, the, the amount of joint damage that I did on both throughout my body, um, would have just kept getting worse.

00:42:45.622 --> 00:43:06.817
And so my doctor explained it to me one time as, as, Um, having mashed potatoes on the end of a stick is what my, he said, my foot looked like, um, so it was just like this weird, it would have been fine, but it also would not have been the, the life that I live now.

00:43:06.817 --> 00:43:14.422
It would have been a much more sedentary life, um, Which that, that just wasn't something I wanted to do.

00:43:14.512 --> 00:43:21.822
I mean, I knew I could continue on the path I was on, but I also keep in mind my back was fused.

00:43:22.142 --> 00:43:23.172
My neck is fused.

00:43:23.522 --> 00:43:27.152
Um, when I would walk, I was uneven because of the boot.

00:43:27.372 --> 00:43:32.782
And so it would have been, I have to deal with chronic pain anyway, even with the amputation.

00:43:32.832 --> 00:43:37.682
Um, cause you just cannot do all this damage and not have residual effects for your life.

00:43:38.202 --> 00:43:39.212
But I realized.

00:43:40.057 --> 00:43:42.107
You know, I wouldn't have been able to climb.

00:43:42.567 --> 00:43:47.467
Um, I probably couldn't hike into something because of the foot.

00:43:47.927 --> 00:43:53.492
And I just kept looking at it and it looked, it was so misshapen.

00:43:53.492 --> 00:43:54.862
I couldn't move it.

00:43:54.882 --> 00:43:57.982
I could, it was just like this appendage that just didn't work.

00:43:58.032 --> 00:44:15.913
And so Cindy and I would talk, you know, just all the time about what, it seems insane to cut your leg off, but like you get to a point where you're like, If I don't cut this off, if I don't amputate this, I am not going to move forward.

00:44:16.262 --> 00:44:18.092
I am going to stay right here.

00:44:18.372 --> 00:44:26.692
And the thing that I kept going back to was that the accident, when you're in that kind of trauma, it just keeps taking from you.

00:44:26.762 --> 00:44:28.242
You know, you just keep losing stuff.

00:44:28.262 --> 00:44:29.862
You know, you can't feel certain things.

00:44:30.112 --> 00:44:36.522
I have all this paralysis from the broken back where, you know, I can't feel like basically the half of my body is numb.

00:44:36.772 --> 00:44:40.457
So from my middle section here back, I can't feel.

00:44:40.477 --> 00:44:42.927
So if you touch my back, I can't really feel you touch it.

00:44:43.357 --> 00:44:45.417
Um, I can't feel temperature on my leg.

00:44:45.667 --> 00:44:48.817
I can't feel my other foot that I have, my real foot.

00:44:48.827 --> 00:44:51.457
I can't feel my foot because of the spinal cord injuries.

00:44:51.788 --> 00:45:03.442
So you start to realize like, okay, If I'm, I'm going to have those things no matter what, at least I would have like a good foot to stand on, you know, and that would be the amputated one.

00:45:03.902 --> 00:45:10.502
So you, your mind kind of, when you first start thinking about it, you're like, hell no, there's no way I'm, that's insane.

00:45:10.792 --> 00:45:14.932
And then as you go down that road, you really, you start to realize like, if I want to.

00:45:17.362 --> 00:45:27.432
Past like being sedentary, sitting on the couch, I would still work, I would still be a dad, still be a husband, but I wouldn't be the person that I wanted to be.

00:45:27.512 --> 00:45:32.867
You realize, okay, if that's the only way to do that, then Then I'm just gonna do that.

00:45:32.897 --> 00:45:36.677
And so it took me, you know, 18 months to get there.

00:45:36.737 --> 00:45:42.907
And right around, uh, 17 months, I developed this nerve disorder in my, my right leg.

00:45:42.967 --> 00:45:47.627
Um, it's called RSD or some people call it, chronic pain syndrome or something.

00:45:47.627 --> 00:45:50.237
It's, it's basically this really wicked nerve pain.

00:45:50.647 --> 00:45:54.397
Um, and I went in and, you know, the neurologist said, oh, it's because.

00:45:54.697 --> 00:46:01.367
When you hit the ground, you know, they reconstruct that nerve and the nerve remembers what happened last, which was you hitting the ground.

00:46:01.377 --> 00:46:05.027
So you're going to feel that pain over and over and over and over.

00:46:05.357 --> 00:46:08.107
And so I said, well, if I amputate, do I get above it?

00:46:08.117 --> 00:46:09.797
Like, is that a way to do that?

00:46:09.797 --> 00:46:13.227
And he's like, you probably not going to get above it, but he said, you might.

00:46:13.737 --> 00:46:21.427
Be able to control it some with some drugs and things like that your foot's still gonna hurt all the time It's not gonna get better.

00:46:21.427 --> 00:46:34.817
So That also kind of dug into why I wanted to do it And then once I made the decision it was kind of empowering because it was kind of like me finally saying Okay enough of this.

00:46:34.907 --> 00:46:41.587
I need to do this really big Dramatic thing but in the end it's gonna move me forward.

00:46:41.587 --> 00:46:43.525
So Let's just do that.

00:46:43.555 --> 00:46:49.049
And then, you know, December 3rd jumped in And, and for me, I realized.

00:46:49.574 --> 00:46:51.964
I had the perspective of, okay, I'm still here.

00:46:52.554 --> 00:46:54.814
I love my wife.

00:46:54.924 --> 00:46:58.164
I love my family and I love to climb.

00:46:58.254 --> 00:47:01.474
So I'm going to just focus on those three things and that's it.

00:47:01.544 --> 00:47:05.724
I don't, I'm going to let, I'm not going to worry about the other crap, the trauma.

00:47:06.605 --> 00:47:12.474
If you, you know, you're occupying this vessel and by that, I mean this body that is shattered.

00:47:12.824 --> 00:47:19.184
You're in it 24 seven, you don't get a So I realized when I was actually climbing.

00:47:19.519 --> 00:47:20.819
I felt better.

00:47:20.829 --> 00:47:22.469
I felt like I was moving.

00:47:22.489 --> 00:47:28.019
I was like, my joints were getting, you know, lubricated and I could, I could feel better.

00:47:28.589 --> 00:47:31.719
But when I was sedentary, I felt like garbage.

00:47:31.779 --> 00:47:34.250
And I, and that's the same way for me to this day.

00:47:34.250 --> 00:47:40.089
If I'm sedentary for a long period of time, I just get really creaky and achy and things like that.

00:47:40.109 --> 00:47:43.219
So when I started to move again, I was like, Oh.

00:47:44.359 --> 00:47:45.819
This feels, this feels good.

00:47:45.829 --> 00:47:46.919
This is a good thing.

00:47:47.239 --> 00:47:51.879
And then once I got over the mental part of like, oh my God, I don't want to get hurt again.

00:47:51.939 --> 00:47:52.949
I don't want to fall again.

00:47:53.730 --> 00:47:56.449
And that took a year or two to get over that.

00:47:56.449 --> 00:47:59.579
I top roped for like a probably a year and a half straight.

00:48:00.929 --> 00:48:04.750
To just feel like, okay, I'm not, my head's not going to explode while I'm doing this.

00:48:04.750 --> 00:48:09.489
Like I can deal with this again, um, kind of figure out how to compartmentalize that fear piece.

00:48:09.569 --> 00:48:13.909
And then moving forward, I just realized that's what makes me happy.

00:48:13.939 --> 00:48:17.519
And so why would I not, why would I ignore that?

00:48:17.549 --> 00:48:20.379
You know, I felt like I didn't want the accident to take that as well.

00:48:20.409 --> 00:48:22.089
Cause you know, it was an accident.

00:48:22.169 --> 00:48:25.844
It wasn't like climbing just like, Just crushed me.

00:48:26.014 --> 00:48:27.134
It was an accident.

00:48:27.144 --> 00:48:28.824
It could happen to anyone.

00:48:28.824 --> 00:48:30.694
That's why they literally call it an accident.

00:48:30.694 --> 00:48:43.524
So once I understood that and, and processed that through and, um, talked with my partner who I was with that day, Steve, and he and I processed that, you know, our friendship and just our relationship and how this all affected things.

00:48:43.875 --> 00:48:46.944
Um, I realized that's what I wanted to still be doing.

00:48:47.054 --> 00:48:50.808
And, and then what was, was weird was I met, it.

00:48:51.069 --> 00:48:55.059
The right people at the right time who helped me kind of pursue things.

00:48:55.059 --> 00:48:59.489
You know, that's when, uh, I met Hans Florin, who's been on your, your podcast.

00:48:59.763 --> 00:49:06.043
again, I can't say enough to the community of climbers where I would reach out to these people and say, Hey, I'm thinking of trying to do this thing.

00:49:06.363 --> 00:49:09.533
And they would say, Oh, hell yeah, let's do this.

00:49:09.763 --> 00:49:13.683
Like Hans was like, Oh yeah, yeah, I'll, I'll help you climb fast.

00:49:13.683 --> 00:49:14.753
What do you want to, what do you want to know?

00:49:14.753 --> 00:49:23.884
I was going to go to a speed climbing comp and he was like, Oh yeah, come out to the Bay Area and we'll go, we'll go climb El Cap together and we'll do it in a, in a day because no amputees have done that.

00:49:24.243 --> 00:49:27.143
And I thought he was batshit crazy when he said that.

00:49:27.183 --> 00:49:58.713
I was just like, Dude, I was in a wheelchair when he said that actually I was doing wheelies in a wheelchair when he said that to me He didn't know that but I says on my phone, but I'm like that that isn't the dumbest idea I've ever heard of dude like no, you don't do that didn't tell him any of that I was just like I'm just gonna go I'm just gonna see what happens My wife and I came out with the kids and we went to the valley and it ended up working great We did lurking fear together but it's like I was really fortunate to say, this is what I love to do.

00:49:59.083 --> 00:50:03.373
Um, so now how do I do it in this new normal?

00:50:03.553 --> 00:50:05.223
That is this shattered body.

00:50:05.283 --> 00:50:10.593
Um, that only works kind of decent a short amount of time during the day.

00:50:10.593 --> 00:50:11.893
Like how do I balance that?

00:50:12.093 --> 00:50:19.243
Um, but even though it was hard and like trying to figure stuff out, it was still, every time I did it, I was like, gosh, still, I still want to do this.

00:50:19.243 --> 00:50:22.033
I still have that, that passion and that itch to do it.

00:50:22.053 --> 00:50:26.013
And I just couldn't, See myself not doing it.

00:50:26.053 --> 00:50:34.013
And that's what I tell people is like, if you feel like you're being driven somewhere, like embrace it, like, don't run from it.

00:50:34.013 --> 00:50:38.634
Just like if you, if it's showing you over and over, this is going to make you happy.

00:50:39.393 --> 00:50:39.913
Do that.

00:50:39.933 --> 00:50:41.263
Like, just go ahead and pursue that.

00:50:41.283 --> 00:50:42.023
That's a good thing.

00:50:42.023 --> 00:50:46.643
If it's a healthy pursuit, man, just like go all in, just see what happens.

00:50:46.643 --> 00:50:46.933
Right.

00:50:47.173 --> 00:50:48.773
I had no idea where it was going to go.

00:50:48.773 --> 00:50:49.243
I was just like.

00:50:50.193 --> 00:51:03.813
I'll just do this part and see what happens right and just the doors kind of kept opening for me then and it was just this weird journey that has now become what I would consider, I think, one of the most wonderful lives I could ever live.

00:51:03.813 --> 00:51:06.293
It's just like it put me in a really great spot.

00:51:06.323 --> 00:51:09.503
So I am ever thankful for it all.

00:51:10.576 --> 00:51:13.925
Human beings are designed to move, you know,

00:51:14.060 --> 00:51:14.340
Yeah,

00:51:15.110 --> 00:51:16.770
is such a part of our identity.

00:51:16.770 --> 00:51:22.530
I mean, we could not have fed ourselves if we didn't know how to move and find and forage.

00:51:23.654 --> 00:51:30.855
Those of us who have been lucky to discover the benefits, you know, the, the life giving properties of being able to use your bodies.

00:51:30.914 --> 00:52:03.757
I think there is that mind and body connection because I think you are such a good person to talk about this because I think climbing and moving perhaps brought you into this flow state, gave you the ability to find delight and validation in using your physical powers, which perhaps allowed you to maybe transcend some of your, uh, physical anguish and mental anguish, because you're grappling with your new identity.

00:52:03.857 --> 00:52:10.068
You're able to get back into climbing and you're able to use yourself in a way that give you joy.

00:52:11.293 --> 00:52:11.853
Yeah.

00:52:12.485 --> 00:52:20.305
one thing I wanted to ask is, and this might be a bit dumb, but all amputations are not the same.

00:52:20.965 --> 00:52:23.525
You had your leg amputated.

00:52:24.012 --> 00:52:29.082
Somebody else might go through the same thing, but then the rest of their body may still be.

00:52:29.632 --> 00:52:30.542
quite intact.

00:52:30.772 --> 00:52:58.306
While in your case, you described, you know, some of the other things with the paralysis and other, uh, injuries to your other foot, and how you have to keep up your medication regiment Craig, just jumping up ahead a little bit, you have gone on and competed and done really well in Paralympic Games and other competitions for adaptive athletes.

00:52:59.196 --> 00:52:59.516
Yeah.

00:52:59.976 --> 00:53:08.916
Is there a distinction made between the kind of adaptations people are confronted with when they come to the Olympics?

00:53:09.466 --> 00:53:11.446
Take part in, let's say a climbing competition.

00:53:12.836 --> 00:53:13.116
Yeah.

00:53:13.116 --> 00:53:13.746
They break it.

00:53:13.806 --> 00:53:15.286
It's, it's kind of cool.

00:53:15.286 --> 00:53:19.766
Like they break it into divisions of what that physical disability is.

00:53:19.846 --> 00:53:31.476
So like amputations, for instance, like you said, they're all different, but you can kind of paint with a broad brush and say, okay, leg amputations are classified as below the knee or above the knee.

00:53:31.776 --> 00:53:33.176
I'm above, I'm below the knee.

00:53:33.456 --> 00:53:35.974
And that, that is a, a, a break.

00:53:36.024 --> 00:53:39.044
And then you also have neurological effects.

00:53:39.114 --> 00:53:40.254
So you can be.

00:53:40.819 --> 00:53:46.089
You can have an amputation with a neurological effect, um, but they generally are separated.

00:53:46.139 --> 00:53:53.459
So you'll just have amputations in one bucket and then neurological in another bucket, blind in another bucket, so on and so forth.

00:53:53.799 --> 00:53:55.219
And then arms are the same way.

00:53:55.219 --> 00:53:59.329
So an arm is going to either be below the elbow or above the elbow.

00:53:59.399 --> 00:54:01.389
It's kind of where that classification will hit.

00:54:01.659 --> 00:54:05.791
And there are nuances to each different comp, That is like with a broad brush.

00:54:05.791 --> 00:54:08.371
They do break them into these different categories.

00:54:08.381 --> 00:54:15.561
So then you're competing against someone who's kind of like you, obviously not going to be exactly like you.

00:54:15.561 --> 00:54:20.131
Everyone is different, but you do have similarities in that physical disability.

00:54:20.141 --> 00:54:23.081
So they kind of, you know, They want to make it as equitable as they can.

00:54:23.091 --> 00:54:27.601
It's very hard to do that, but, um, they, I think they do the best they can.

00:54:27.751 --> 00:54:32.422
And I competed for a really, I think I competed for like 12 or 13 years and loved it.

00:54:32.741 --> 00:54:39.311
Um, because of the, the community that I met, like I, I was never a comp climber before I got hurt.

00:54:39.331 --> 00:55:05.321
And then all of a sudden I went to this first comp and I was like, Oh my God, like everyone I met was just like, Holy crap, there's this whole world that I had no idea, like, all of a sudden you're around everyone who had some kind of disability, and that just, even to this day, that doesn't happen very often, where I'm just around a lot of people, like, who look like me, and so it's like this weird, um, comfort, you're just like, oh.

00:55:05.751 --> 00:55:06.791
This is kind of rad.

00:55:06.791 --> 00:55:12.161
Like everybody taking their leg off when they're sitting and they're resting and comparing parts and pieces.

00:55:12.161 --> 00:55:14.291
And it's like, damn, this is cool.

00:55:14.481 --> 00:55:18.311
And some of my best friends are from that part of my life.

00:55:18.321 --> 00:55:20.511
You know, I'm still very much in touch with them.

00:55:20.561 --> 00:55:21.911
Um, we still climb together.

00:55:21.911 --> 00:55:22.881
We still see each other.

00:55:23.201 --> 00:55:26.261
Um, and so you get this like community piece that you just.

00:55:26.596 --> 00:55:27.866
You just didn't even know it was there.

00:55:27.866 --> 00:55:30.516
It's like, damn, this isn't, it's powerful to me.

00:55:30.516 --> 00:55:33.146
It was like, this is, this is really cool stuff.

00:55:33.436 --> 00:55:39.536
And I think that's why I competed so long was I just still, you know, you go to Europe and you meet these folks there.

00:55:39.536 --> 00:55:44.206
It's like, God, this is a freaking amazing world that I didn't even know existed.

00:55:44.206 --> 00:55:46.846
It's like, and I wouldn't have known had I not got hurt.

00:55:46.846 --> 00:55:50.196
So I am, yeah, the classifications are cool.

00:55:50.416 --> 00:55:52.206
The community, even cooler.

00:55:53.128 --> 00:55:58.988
I can only imagine the community being so cool.

00:55:59.208 --> 00:56:07.918
And so perhaps close knit because climbing itself is still a fringe activity.

00:56:07.988 --> 00:56:24.113
And I think that sometimes draws us closer together because we are doing something, which even today is slightly counterculture, I like to joke that, uh, you know, it's a bunch of, uh, slightly maladjusted people who found each other.

00:56:24.443 --> 00:56:28.423
And now you have, uh, you have, uh, Adaptive climbers.

00:56:28.423 --> 00:56:31.352
I'm guessing, you guys maybe all even know each other, right?

00:56:31.392 --> 00:56:38.502
People, maybe people you competed with or people who are maybe the more prolific of the, uh, climbing community.

00:56:38.502 --> 00:56:43.632
You probably, yeah, you have so much to relate with and, uh, and share with.

00:56:44.230 --> 00:56:44.520
Yeah.

00:56:44.520 --> 00:56:47.400
And, and they're, they're even more maladjusted, I think.

00:56:47.400 --> 00:56:49.930
So it's like, it's great to be a part of that.

00:56:50.020 --> 00:56:50.260
Right.

00:56:50.280 --> 00:56:54.650
It's like, it's cool to be able to say it's, it's, it's always comforting.

00:56:54.650 --> 00:56:58.750
I think as a human to talk to someone who can understand exactly what you're saying, right.

00:56:58.760 --> 00:57:00.510
Like where they're like, I get it.

00:57:00.520 --> 00:57:04.510
When you say this thing hurts, like my, my leg hurts me this way.

00:57:04.530 --> 00:57:07.890
They go, Oh yeah, dude, this, I do this to help that.

00:57:07.890 --> 00:57:08.855
And it's just.

00:57:09.346 --> 00:57:11.465
Really nice to be around that.

00:57:11.495 --> 00:57:16.895
Um, and yeah, I'm still friends with like the guys I competed with in my very first comp.

00:57:16.955 --> 00:57:18.205
We are still good friends.

00:57:18.365 --> 00:57:25.495
I mean, what, in fact, the one guy, Pete Davis, um, He was the, probably the first person I met in the adaptive world.

00:57:25.505 --> 00:57:26.545
He's an arm amputee.

00:57:26.865 --> 00:57:29.105
Um, and Pete and I did Zodiac together.

00:57:29.105 --> 00:57:34.565
We ended up doing the first, um, all disabled ascent of El Cap together because of that first meeting.

00:57:34.705 --> 00:57:38.255
We met at this comp in Florida, this janky comp in Florida.

00:57:38.255 --> 00:57:39.076
It was horrible.

00:57:39.125 --> 00:57:41.275
Like, as I look back on it, it was terrible.

00:57:41.385 --> 00:57:44.076
But, it was Right.

00:57:44.085 --> 00:57:50.445
Because I got to all of a sudden meet all these individuals who I just had no idea even existed and forge these friendships.

00:57:50.445 --> 00:57:55.515
And Pete and I just, um, immediately just clicked together and stayed in touch and friends.

00:57:55.515 --> 00:57:57.245
And he loves to wall climb as well.

00:57:57.245 --> 00:57:59.455
And so he's just, it was just like, yeah.

00:57:59.790 --> 00:58:20.971
Oh my god, there's people who think like I do, who have these disabilities, are willing to work with it, and just figure it out as we go, and then still getting after it, like still, like, having fun, being great, amazing people, it's just, to me it was like, oh my god, how did I, I want to be in this world, like, this is amazing to me, so, yeah, it's just been this amazing journey.

00:58:21.355 --> 00:58:25.385
A really fun thing to explore and be a part of.

00:58:25.878 --> 00:58:37.988
Craig, you got hurt and you started using the technology at that time with your prosthetic leg to allow you to get back into climbing.

00:58:38.893 --> 00:58:56.203
I'm curious, has the technology kept progressing with prosthetics, with these adaptations to allow you to allow you and others in the community to keep getting better at climbing, keep using your limb better?

00:58:56.913 --> 00:59:10.019
And also, is the technology available and the state of advancement, is it running parallel to, let's say, technology for other kinds of adaptations and other sports?

00:59:10.309 --> 00:59:13.929
Where do you think we are with the, uh, with this sort of state of technology?

00:59:14.349 --> 00:59:17.079
Is it, is it where you want it to be?

00:59:19.205 --> 00:59:21.305
It is, it is in a really good place.

00:59:21.326 --> 00:59:23.185
It's just, it can go a lot further.

00:59:23.185 --> 00:59:25.769
I think, I was really fortunate when I started.

00:59:26.189 --> 00:59:28.099
Kind of climbing as an amputee climber.

00:59:28.329 --> 00:59:31.250
My prosthetist helped me make a foot that I could climb with.

00:59:31.589 --> 00:59:34.519
We made it out of titanium and it worked.

00:59:34.579 --> 00:59:36.689
It would burn through rubber pretty quickly.

00:59:36.730 --> 00:59:40.599
So I would, I couldn't like do a lot of different routes on it.

00:59:40.609 --> 00:59:42.709
It would, it would have to be resold and fixed.

00:59:42.918 --> 01:00:13.776
But then I started working with Evolve around that same time, and Evolve actually made something called the EAF, which is the Evolve Adaptive Foot, and we were able to help design, help on the design of that, um, there were several people involved with that who, we all kind of like traded ideas back and forth, and then did R& D with them, you know, they would make it, we would break it, that kind of a thing, and so that was really, you know, Kind of like this big jump forward for leg amputees because now all of a sudden you had this foot That you could buy online.

01:00:13.817 --> 01:00:27.146
You didn't have to have insurance to get it It costs so the first foot that I wore And I actually still wear is this foot that it costs twelve hundred dollars That the the you're buying the inner foot piece that actually can goes on to the leg my prosthetic.

01:00:27.490 --> 01:00:28.880
So that's pretty expensive, right?

01:00:28.930 --> 01:00:38.770
And I was fortunate enough to, at the time when I was competing, the company and I worked together, TRS, um, who are in Boulder, uh, and I work together, still work together to this day.

01:00:39.070 --> 01:00:44.040
Um, they were super helpful with me getting the foot and being able to really use it a lot.

01:00:44.268 --> 01:00:46.665
but then Evolve was like, that's pretty expensive.

01:00:46.665 --> 01:00:47.135
Like, is that a.

01:00:47.395 --> 01:00:48.145
Barrier.

01:00:48.195 --> 01:00:50.815
And I said, that is the biggest barrier.

01:00:50.875 --> 01:00:53.445
Um, you know, you need generally two feet.

01:00:53.675 --> 01:00:59.875
So you're talking a lot of money and EF came along because you've all said, we will make this thing.

01:01:00.310 --> 01:01:03.870
And make it affordable and available to anyone.

01:01:04.010 --> 01:01:08.350
And so now you can go to evolves website, buy the foot online.

01:01:08.350 --> 01:01:10.930
They'll ship it to your house and you can go climbing the next day.

01:01:10.971 --> 01:01:11.990
It's pretty amazing.

01:01:12.240 --> 01:01:15.780
And you're talking a price point of 200 as opposed to 1, 200.

01:01:15.790 --> 01:01:17.201
So that kind of.

01:01:17.440 --> 01:01:19.130
Technology jump was huge.

01:01:19.260 --> 01:01:22.194
Now I feel like we're at, like hand amputees.

01:01:22.194 --> 01:01:23.364
It's a bit harder for them.

01:01:23.364 --> 01:01:25.274
I feel like they're it's the challenges.

01:01:25.274 --> 01:01:30.904
There are pretty hard to get something that will work in a lot of different realms.

01:01:30.924 --> 01:01:33.384
You know, plastic is going to climb a certain way.

01:01:33.414 --> 01:01:35.924
Granite cracks, whatever it is.

01:01:36.244 --> 01:01:40.125
So it's a lot harder to get a hand that will fit into these things.

01:01:40.549 --> 01:01:41.549
Across the board.

01:01:41.869 --> 01:01:42.279
The E.

01:01:42.279 --> 01:01:42.409
A.

01:01:42.409 --> 01:01:42.619
F.

01:01:42.639 --> 01:01:46.859
allows you to basically climb a large quantity of different kinds of rock.

01:01:46.879 --> 01:01:48.000
It doesn't really matter.

01:01:48.438 --> 01:01:57.169
we could definitely fine tune that into like something that's more aggressive and downturned for like steep climbing, but, Right now.

01:01:57.169 --> 01:01:58.480
We're not, we're not there.

01:01:58.699 --> 01:02:00.500
It would be cool to go there.

01:02:00.829 --> 01:02:01.759
I've worked.

01:02:01.839 --> 01:02:06.189
I've been really fortunate to work on like, um, some kind of like R and D projects.

01:02:06.500 --> 01:02:20.659
Um, Arc'teryx and I have been, uh, I've been a part of them for 15 years and they're an amazing sponsor for me where they have put money into like R and D for like how we can make a foot that moves and pushes and does all these cool things.

01:02:21.481 --> 01:02:23.831
But it's, it's in a good spot.

01:02:23.922 --> 01:02:26.591
It, I feel like it could always go further and better.

01:02:26.738 --> 01:02:31.448
and that just comes down to like people taking the time to do it and spending the money to get it done.

01:02:33.131 --> 01:02:34.192
you said earlier, Craig.

01:02:34.942 --> 01:02:45.574
About, the timing of it all, like when you got hurt, maybe some of these things were coming together, but it seems like you also helped shape the reality.

01:02:46.074 --> 01:03:01.134
You helped it take, help take it forward and you were able to find these collaborators, so maybe a little hat tip to some of our climbing companies who are helping, uh, but then, yeah, you.

01:03:01.578 --> 01:03:15.904
You along with others kind of took what was out there and then you took it further ahead to, to bring, uh, these, these technologies to other people in climbing who could use, use these things.

01:03:16.562 --> 01:03:30.182
now talking a little bit about shifting into what you do every day for work and how you have been able to inspire, coach, train, help others.

01:03:31.022 --> 01:03:39.282
into either furthering their existing climbing, but even introduce, I believe, non climbers to the sport of climbing.

01:03:40.047 --> 01:03:40.497
Yes.

01:03:40.832 --> 01:03:43.482
What I want to understand here to start off is.

01:03:44.647 --> 01:03:55.647
Let's say somebody got hurt in a non climbing way, you know, they had maybe a shop accident and now they, their life has changed forever.

01:03:55.697 --> 01:03:59.867
How did that person find their way to you?

01:04:00.957 --> 01:04:11.247
And is it Are you helping people learn to climb who already have expressed an interest in climbing?

01:04:11.257 --> 01:04:12.997
Maybe they have a bit of prior experience?

01:04:13.504 --> 01:04:23.224
Or are these people who are not outdoorsy, they don't climb, but somehow they have been convinced to give climbing a chance?

01:04:23.743 --> 01:04:35.977
a chance to help reshape their vision and the possibilities, maybe in a way that it has also reshaped your life.

01:04:37.289 --> 01:04:37.859
Yeah.

01:04:38.000 --> 01:04:40.369
And it's, it's a combination of.

01:04:41.909 --> 01:04:42.309
things.

01:04:42.389 --> 01:04:47.359
to, to answer the first part, um, they can, they can get to me lots of different ways.

01:04:47.369 --> 01:04:52.169
They can either just Google my name and that'll get them to my website, which is just CraigDMartino.

01:04:52.209 --> 01:04:52.639
com.

01:04:53.149 --> 01:04:58.105
They can go, to the nonprofit that we work with, which is called Adaptive Adventures.

01:04:58.144 --> 01:04:59.764
And that's just AdaptiveAdventures.

01:04:59.804 --> 01:05:00.234
org.

01:05:00.634 --> 01:05:02.714
That will get them to me as well.

01:05:03.288 --> 01:05:12.227
probably I would say 70%, 75% of the people that we work with are non climbers before their accidents.

01:05:12.288 --> 01:05:19.747
And so through one way or the other, they are either, um, so we do a lot of work with, um, veterans with disabilities.

01:05:19.747 --> 01:05:21.757
So we work with the va.

01:05:21.788 --> 01:05:29.197
The, the, the nonprofit we work with, um, has a va, they get an adaptive sport grant each year, and then they allow.

01:05:29.472 --> 01:05:34.092
Me and my wife Cindy to shape and build their climbing program for them.

01:05:34.112 --> 01:05:40.380
So we go all over the country And Puerto Rico and Hawaii and we get new veterans with disabilities.

01:05:40.390 --> 01:05:53.480
So and any disability we're talking PTSD to fully in a wheelchair So anything in between so we can get anyone climbing and so they'll come out We'll usually start in a gym.

01:05:53.760 --> 01:05:58.170
And so we're just introducing them to you Okay, this is what climbing is.

01:05:58.440 --> 01:06:04.230
This is like what it can show you in your body and how this is how you move with your new disability.

01:06:04.582 --> 01:06:09.062
but what I tell them first is I'm here to just make you a climber.

01:06:09.407 --> 01:06:12.487
Once we do that, we will figure out the adaptive piece.

01:06:12.497 --> 01:06:16.757
So let's not focus on the adaptive piece, which is what you've been focusing on.

01:06:16.977 --> 01:06:18.407
which is why you're with me.

01:06:18.457 --> 01:06:20.788
So we're here to get out of that cycle.

01:06:20.837 --> 01:06:28.227
So we want to learn how to be a climber, how to move as a climber, how to meet the community of climbing, which is amazing, right?

01:06:28.337 --> 01:06:31.577
And so show them this is climbing.

01:06:31.587 --> 01:06:32.797
This is the community.

01:06:33.457 --> 01:06:34.913
And now let's get to it.

01:06:35.112 --> 01:06:36.012
Keep doing that.

01:06:36.092 --> 01:06:39.982
And so what we generally do is we'll set it up as like they'll come.

01:06:40.032 --> 01:06:40.972
It's not a one off.

01:06:41.002 --> 01:06:42.742
We'll try to set up a program for them.

01:06:42.742 --> 01:06:51.632
So, like, just like, say, here in Denver and in the in the front range area of Colorado, we have these different community nights all up and down the front range.

01:06:51.692 --> 01:06:52.882
So they can come out.

01:06:53.642 --> 01:06:59.392
They can get a discounted day pass at the gym, which will include their harness and shoes.

01:06:59.432 --> 01:07:00.672
And then they come in with this.

01:07:00.942 --> 01:07:09.512
Me and we teach them the basics of climbing with the intention of them, hopefully repeating it with us and then moving them outside.

01:07:09.602 --> 01:07:14.572
So we start them indoors and then we move them to the natural world outside because.

01:07:15.092 --> 01:07:17.942
Usually they're like, Oh, indoor climbing is really cool.

01:07:17.962 --> 01:07:22.532
And then I'm always like, but once you go outside, you're only going to want to be there.

01:07:22.552 --> 01:07:26.842
So then we kind of take them outside, show them what that's like.

01:07:26.872 --> 01:07:34.362
And then they'll come and we'll do those programs maybe once a month where we're outdoors with them with different groups all over the place.

01:07:34.666 --> 01:07:46.201
but the idea is to get them kind of hooked with the community piece and the, uh, The feeling of movement piece, that will hopefully change the direction of their, of whatever cycle they're in.

01:07:46.250 --> 01:07:57.630
Hopefully we're breaking that cycle and helping them to focus on a better quality of life instead of just like existing within this thing that they, they have gotten to after this traumatic event, whatever that event was.

01:07:58.225 --> 01:08:04.576
that other percentage that's left, whatever that is, at the end of the day, are climbers who got hurt.

01:08:04.768 --> 01:08:10.948
yesterday evening I worked with an individual, he was a very strong comp climber, um, and then he was in a car accident.

01:08:11.203 --> 01:08:17.608
And so he is now in a wheelchair, a lot of paralysis really got hurt pretty badly.

01:08:17.905 --> 01:08:18.826
the accident is pretty new.

01:08:18.826 --> 01:08:21.265
It's, he's probably only three months out from the accident.

01:08:21.555 --> 01:08:30.506
So yesterday in the gym, climbing gym, um, in Denver, he was, using something we call an easy seat, which is a, uh, seat that takes the place of his wheelchair.

01:08:30.537 --> 01:08:33.917
And he does assisted pull ups on this bar that we manufacture.

01:08:34.297 --> 01:08:35.506
And so this dude.

01:08:35.856 --> 01:08:40.606
Out of his wheelchair, climbs up the, uh, you know, a 42 foot wall and movement Englewood.

01:08:40.657 --> 01:08:43.016
And, and it's the first time he's out of his chair again.

01:08:43.420 --> 01:08:43.609
it's.

01:08:44.185 --> 01:08:49.274
Amazingly powerful stuff for individuals and for me to see it's like that's crazy.

01:08:49.788 --> 01:08:55.698
and yet you see that glimmer, that spark that we get where you're like, Oh, this is cool.

01:08:55.747 --> 01:08:56.978
Like, I want to keep doing this.

01:08:57.028 --> 01:08:59.427
And he was, he's non communicative.

01:08:59.438 --> 01:09:01.778
He's just, he does fist bumps and hand signals.

01:09:02.097 --> 01:09:08.368
And so he just came down and fist bumped me, gave me the hang loose and his sister said, Oh, he's psyched.

01:09:08.457 --> 01:09:12.207
So I was like, That's why we want to do this.

01:09:12.487 --> 01:09:19.857
That's like, you can take someone on this path and just redirect and that's what we're doing is we're helping them redirect and rediscover.

01:09:20.403 --> 01:09:21.933
yes, your life's going to be different.

01:09:22.423 --> 01:09:23.063
Absolutely.

01:09:23.063 --> 01:09:26.413
I'm not going to lie about that, but it doesn't have to be bad.

01:09:26.483 --> 01:09:27.423
It can be different.

01:09:27.863 --> 01:09:29.163
And that's just different.

01:09:29.233 --> 01:09:38.393
And it's, we just have to learn to embrace that difference and then move forward with it instead of just like focusing so much on the negative of like, oh, shoot, I can't do this.

01:09:38.393 --> 01:09:38.943
I can't do that.

01:09:39.233 --> 01:09:42.783
It's like, let's get out of that cycle and let's get into a more positive cycle.

01:09:42.783 --> 01:09:43.288
And that's, that's what we're doing.

01:09:43.718 --> 01:09:47.148
The natural world embraces that, like the change is inevitable.

01:09:47.158 --> 01:09:52.228
So just even as we all age, right, we all are changing all the time, right?

01:09:52.278 --> 01:09:55.968
We're addressing and figuring out and evolving with it.

01:09:56.038 --> 01:09:58.968
Um, but if you fight it, it's so much harder.

01:09:58.978 --> 01:10:01.068
It's like, you're not going to change it.

01:10:01.078 --> 01:10:02.478
Like we can't change getting older.

01:10:02.478 --> 01:10:03.918
It's just, that's the way it is.

01:10:03.948 --> 01:10:05.708
And so you have to embrace that.

01:10:05.708 --> 01:10:08.208
And that's trauma is very similar to that.

01:10:08.238 --> 01:10:12.753
It's like this, the aging process and trauma have a lot in common in that, right?

01:10:12.913 --> 01:10:14.134
Things are breaking down.

01:10:14.533 --> 01:10:21.103
And so you're like in this state of like maintenance of, Oh God, I just want to be able to keep doing what I'm doing.

01:10:21.103 --> 01:10:22.533
So what do I need to do to do that?

01:10:22.563 --> 01:10:27.213
And that's, that's what people like me are for is to say, Oh, here's a fun way to do that.

01:10:27.253 --> 01:10:30.783
You can be climbing and enjoying yourself and in this amazing world.

01:10:30.783 --> 01:10:33.973
So it's all about redirection, right?

01:10:34.622 --> 01:10:35.582
See something different.

01:10:35.632 --> 01:10:39.902
I think the thing, and I am, I'm always awed by this is.

01:10:40.472 --> 01:10:44.542
is being in this world is, is such a perspective builder.

01:10:44.916 --> 01:10:45.817
it's really easy.

01:10:45.817 --> 01:10:56.375
I think for anyone to just kind of like, kind of get stuck with what's happening to you and you, and you're just kind of spinning your wheels, you know, you're not, you're not going backwards.

01:10:56.375 --> 01:10:57.104
You're not going forward.

01:10:57.104 --> 01:10:58.174
You're just kind of spinning.

01:10:58.554 --> 01:11:00.544
And, I was doing that.

01:11:00.574 --> 01:11:07.694
I was, when I came back to climbing, it was amazing and fun and exciting, but then I was like, you know, what am I doing?

01:11:07.704 --> 01:11:10.444
Like, am I actually doing any good with this?

01:11:10.444 --> 01:11:13.114
And like, I went through this thing, what am I doing?

01:11:13.164 --> 01:11:33.819
And I was really fortunate in, I came back from Yosemite, um, after my first trip there with Hans and a good friend of mine, Timmy O'Neill contacted me and said, Hey man, I'm, I'm taking some, um, Veterans with disabilities climbing and they're missing their legs and he's like, I want you to come in and help us, uh, down in Eldo.

01:11:34.099 --> 01:11:36.852
And I was like, dude, I don't, I don't want to do that.

01:11:36.932 --> 01:11:39.202
I was like, that's not my thing, man.

01:11:39.392 --> 01:11:41.082
And he's like, yeah, it is.

01:11:41.082 --> 01:11:42.032
I'll see you Saturday.

01:11:42.052 --> 01:11:44.312
And he just kind of hung up on me and I'm like, damn it.

01:11:44.422 --> 01:11:48.422
So that, that Saturday I'm down in Boulder.

01:11:48.422 --> 01:11:52.432
I meet him and it turned out to be the best day ever.

01:11:52.737 --> 01:11:53.117
ever.

01:11:53.237 --> 01:11:55.517
It was these, they were all younger than me.

01:11:55.587 --> 01:11:58.127
They were freaking hysterical.

01:11:58.147 --> 01:12:00.667
They were so flippant about just everything.

01:12:01.217 --> 01:12:05.157
And one guy was missing his leg, like me, one guy was above the knee.

01:12:05.357 --> 01:12:08.909
And I think the other guy was missing, Oh, he was missing his leg, like me as well.

01:12:08.919 --> 01:12:11.849
So two, two, like me and one bigger amputation.

01:12:12.189 --> 01:12:18.539
Um, but just like funny as hell, like just don't, they were just having the best time.

01:12:18.539 --> 01:12:20.329
They were like, this is bananas.

01:12:20.339 --> 01:12:22.259
How weird this is, but like.

01:12:22.709 --> 01:12:23.809
This is kind of cool.

01:12:23.809 --> 01:12:28.669
And I left that day with this new perspective of like, Oh my God.

01:12:28.669 --> 01:12:31.009
Like there, there are more people like me.

01:12:31.239 --> 01:12:36.939
They just need to understand that we can be working together and helping each other moving forward.

01:12:36.939 --> 01:12:44.057
And so it's given me this perspective shift of it's not just like the negative that happened to me.

01:12:44.057 --> 01:12:46.349
I also see all this positive all the time.

01:12:46.349 --> 01:12:51.443
It's reinforced every time I work with someone that individual last night, you know, I've been doing this a long time.

01:12:52.343 --> 01:12:58.833
He rolled in and you, you immediately know this person he's, you know, any new climber, right?

01:12:58.833 --> 01:12:59.573
They're nervous.

01:12:59.863 --> 01:13:01.533
They don't know what to expect.

01:13:01.563 --> 01:13:03.143
He was a climber before.

01:13:03.143 --> 01:13:04.533
So he's trying to navigate this.

01:13:04.813 --> 01:13:06.223
I used to do this really well.

01:13:06.223 --> 01:13:08.763
Now I'm in a wheelchair, like what the hell is happening?

01:13:08.986 --> 01:13:10.466
is this even something I want to do?

01:13:10.796 --> 01:13:11.236
And.

01:13:11.766 --> 01:13:13.926
Then you have me taking him out on the floor.

01:13:13.926 --> 01:13:15.786
We're climbing 10 minutes later.

01:13:15.806 --> 01:13:17.416
He's up in the air 40 feet.

01:13:17.626 --> 01:13:20.726
It's like, damn, that's powerful.

01:13:20.766 --> 01:13:26.026
And I try, I think that I get that perspective reinforced every time I do programs.

01:13:26.096 --> 01:13:28.982
And so I'm just like, now it's funny.

01:13:29.002 --> 01:13:30.242
Now I kind of crave it.

01:13:30.549 --> 01:13:38.494
it's like a drug where you're just like, damn, you see the power in it and you just want to be able to, Funnel that to a lot of, as many people who need it.

01:13:38.504 --> 01:13:41.974
And so I feel like I get that just on a repeated basis.

01:13:41.974 --> 01:13:45.134
And it's, it fuels my desire to keep climbing.

01:13:45.134 --> 01:13:50.982
It fuels my desire to build the community and folks kind of navigate what they're, what they're navigating.

01:13:51.812 --> 01:13:53.142
Thanks for that thoughtful response.

01:13:53.932 --> 01:14:06.094
I can see how life affirming and how almost addictive that, feeling of, delight is when you see somebody Who's been touched like that.

01:14:06.545 --> 01:14:16.305
besides the work that you directly do with the, the adaptive community, you know, you are out there working with them in person.

01:14:17.115 --> 01:14:23.475
I think you also have a side gig as a, uh, accomplished public speaker.

01:14:23.805 --> 01:14:25.950
You go and, inspire others.

01:14:25.950 --> 01:14:30.195
You give talks, et cetera, to all kinds of audiences.

01:14:30.338 --> 01:14:32.998
And I think that, Hey, listen, if I was in one of your talks.

01:14:33.363 --> 01:14:37.313
There would be some very clear messages and stories I would get out.

01:14:37.313 --> 01:14:41.333
I would leave the talk inspired and whatnot.

01:14:41.693 --> 01:15:02.567
But I'm just wondering if you ever, if there has been feedback or audience responses in some of these talks, which has actually surprised you and you were like, Wait, I gave the story and you know, I expect people to react in a certain way, but this person got impacted and came up with this reaction that, I did not expect

01:15:02.855 --> 01:15:06.736
that is a very, astute observation on your part.

01:15:06.923 --> 01:15:07.993
that happens.

01:15:08.392 --> 01:15:52.284
I won't say every time I speak, but I would say 90 percent of the time I'll always stick around you know, I always open myself up and say, if you want to come up and speak about something, or you have a question, an open book, they'll come up with just like, you You said this and then and then they'll they'll repeat something back to me that I said and I'm thinking I don't think I Said that like did I say that I don't remember saying that but like, okay They it's what they hear and internalize and then that gets brought into the fabric of whatever they're dealing with And then you have to like kind of listen To kind of untangle that, uh, just kind of where they're coming from, it'll just be like a trauma that happened to them for whatever reason.

01:15:52.284 --> 01:15:57.774
And they're dealing with it, or they just want to know that they're not the first person to deal with what they're dealing with.

01:15:58.284 --> 01:16:04.874
And so they'll, they'll speak to me and say, you know, I have like, I broke my back or I did, I broke my neck as well.

01:16:04.874 --> 01:16:09.184
And, and they just want to know that they're not the only person dealing with it.

01:16:09.194 --> 01:16:10.654
And I always tell people like.

01:16:11.044 --> 01:16:13.994
Anything you're dealing with, you're not the first, right?

01:16:14.054 --> 01:16:20.774
Like, someone else has dealt with it, someone else has probably figured out how to deal with it well, and you should find that person, search that out.

01:16:20.824 --> 01:16:24.794
And so usually, if they're at one of my talks, that's what they're doing.

01:16:24.794 --> 01:16:26.484
They're trying to figure out what's going on.

01:16:26.744 --> 01:16:40.132
And I end up getting, If I speak in a climbing gym, I get like many new, participants that way, because they'll come in as a disabled person thinking, I can't rock climb that that's insane.

01:16:40.262 --> 01:16:46.682
Um, and so they'll come to the talk and then they're like, I think maybe I can rock climb and I should go talk to that guy over there.

01:16:46.892 --> 01:16:50.912
And so I get new, I get new participants that way, which is awesome.

01:16:51.212 --> 01:16:56.792
But I do also get every now and again, and I'll get something where it's just a, it's a trauma.

01:16:57.607 --> 01:17:27.794
Like I've never heard like it'll be something just a very different kind of trauma where I'm like damn And so then that person will want to unpack parts of that with me and and I'll do that And then when I speak I just spoke at a kid's school Which those are usually hysterical because if I open it up to questions They'll, they ask the most just weird, funny questions like, I mean, just like, did it hurt when you cut your leg off or did it hurt when you fell off the cliff?

01:17:27.794 --> 01:17:29.984
And like, I had, I get that question a lot.

01:17:30.014 --> 01:17:33.494
And then they're like, does your leg, does your leg get itchy?

01:17:33.504 --> 01:17:35.094
Does it, can I punch your leg?

01:17:35.134 --> 01:17:36.224
Can I kick your leg?

01:17:36.234 --> 01:17:42.749
It's like, They have no filter, which is fantastic, and they just want to ask and know.

01:17:42.909 --> 01:17:45.679
And so I love those interactions as well.

01:17:45.709 --> 01:17:47.609
They don't care so much about the trauma or the climb.

01:17:47.619 --> 01:17:49.519
They're just like, whatever, dude, you're a climber.

01:17:49.519 --> 01:17:49.999
I don't care.

01:17:50.269 --> 01:17:50.809
I want to know.

01:17:50.829 --> 01:17:53.789
I did have a kid literally ask me if he could kick me in the leg.

01:17:53.789 --> 01:17:56.419
And I was like, you can, but it's a metal leg.

01:17:56.479 --> 01:17:58.009
It's going to hurt you, not me.

01:17:58.459 --> 01:17:59.749
And he kicked it and it hurt.

01:18:00.599 --> 01:18:01.909
That was a little life lesson, right?

01:18:01.959 --> 01:18:19.239
So I do feel like it is, it is always interesting what people hear you say, um, even with this podcast, someone will listen to this and they're going to process it a particular way and go, he said this, and it's like, maybe, but like, that's how they're processing that through into the podcast.

01:18:19.609 --> 01:18:20.719
The fabric of their life.

01:18:20.719 --> 01:18:21.619
And that's okay.

01:18:21.619 --> 01:18:22.549
That's how we all do it.

01:18:22.569 --> 01:18:27.929
So it's just really interesting to see it happen and be a part of it and try to untangle it then.

01:18:27.969 --> 01:18:29.549
So yeah, it happens.

01:18:29.709 --> 01:18:30.519
That's a good question.

01:18:31.071 --> 01:18:37.591
Actually, this part of the question also I think hit me in a surprising way.

01:18:37.591 --> 01:18:49.946
I did not I didn't expect this to be part of the answer about how non adults kids react to adaptive athlete.

01:18:50.356 --> 01:18:58.236
You in this case, and how evocative that little story is about that kid wanting to, uh, grapple with your leg and

01:18:58.236 --> 01:19:01.376
wanted to like, you know, uh, feel.

01:19:02.470 --> 01:19:02.800
Right.

01:19:02.886 --> 01:19:04.060
the senses Exactly.

01:19:04.756 --> 01:19:13.705
kids have a beautiful way of just cutting through things, you know, not letting bogged down by, um, yeah, all the, baggage that right.

01:19:13.735 --> 01:19:14.205
Exactly.

01:19:14.205 --> 01:19:15.055
That's societal.

01:19:15.115 --> 01:19:16.945
That's societal buffer that we all have.

01:19:17.275 --> 01:19:18.105
They don't have that yet.

01:19:18.115 --> 01:19:20.455
They're just like, I want to know about this.

01:19:20.545 --> 01:19:22.235
And then they just ask and it's yeah.

01:19:22.265 --> 01:19:24.295
So it's, it's a wonderful thing for sure.

01:19:25.088 --> 01:19:25.358
Great.

01:19:25.368 --> 01:19:30.908
You got hurt and, you know, you had a family already by the time you got hurt.

01:19:31.338 --> 01:19:33.738
And when something like this happens, it.

01:19:34.998 --> 01:19:37.178
impacts not just you, but impacts on family.

01:19:37.507 --> 01:19:40.077
it sounds like your family has been right there with you.

01:19:40.117 --> 01:19:44.967
And they have also used this event as a positive force.

01:19:46.267 --> 01:19:52.027
You mentioned your wife, Cindy, partners with you, or maybe on her own as well.

01:19:52.632 --> 01:20:10.169
also does work With climbers and with the adaptive community, I'm wondering any non obvious things that have transformed her as well, besides obviously just the life giving nature of the work she's doing.

01:20:10.699 --> 01:20:22.009
If I was to ask her, Cindy, you know, when you started doing this thing you know, many moons ago, would you know that this would have changed your life in this beautiful unexpected

01:20:22.263 --> 01:20:22.573
yeah.

01:20:22.573 --> 01:20:29.823
I think she would, I think she would say probably similar to What I say is like, I wouldn't, wouldn't want to do it again.

01:20:30.163 --> 01:20:30.403
Right?

01:20:30.423 --> 01:20:35.263
Like I wouldn't ever say, yeah, let's, let's go ahead and rewind and do that again.

01:20:35.793 --> 01:20:38.193
But I think she would say, I wouldn't change it now.

01:20:38.531 --> 01:20:46.830
you know, there are, there's obvious, there's always pieces and parts that you would love to not have, you know, I, Me personally, I don't want the chronic pain.

01:20:46.830 --> 01:20:48.520
I don't want the paralysis.

01:20:48.520 --> 01:21:01.860
I don't want the trouble that I get from the fusions and amputations, but, and, and for her watching all that, you know, she is, we've been together a long time and she has seen it all.

01:21:01.870 --> 01:21:06.210
So she would tell you, I'm sure I, she doesn't like to see me suffer.

01:21:06.230 --> 01:21:12.450
And, and there is a certain level of suffering that is always, It just comes part and parcel with trauma, right?

01:21:12.480 --> 01:21:13.580
That's just the way that is.

01:21:13.880 --> 01:21:23.840
Um, so she would probably say that would be nice to not have that, but we wouldn't, either one, I think, change where it's taken us.

01:21:23.980 --> 01:21:27.760
Um, because would I have gotten to this place in my life?

01:21:27.780 --> 01:21:28.130
I don't know.

01:21:28.460 --> 01:21:29.510
Don't think I would have.

01:21:29.530 --> 01:21:32.240
I think I would have had a fine life.

01:21:32.240 --> 01:21:33.020
It would have been great.

01:21:33.070 --> 01:21:42.497
We would have raised our kids together and done our thing, but I don't think we would have the, um, the depth and the richness that we have now, which is really, pretty powerful.

01:21:42.497 --> 01:21:49.791
I think, you know, for our marriage, for our relationship with our kids, with, for relationships with the world, that's the perk that you can never.

01:21:50.224 --> 01:21:51.004
Kind of measure.

01:21:51.034 --> 01:21:53.774
And you also can't ever really plan and predict it.

01:21:53.914 --> 01:21:56.514
It's it just it's either going to happen or it's not.

01:21:56.554 --> 01:21:59.894
And I think for us, we've been really fortunate that it has happened.

01:22:00.535 --> 01:22:04.735
I think she would tell you that like wouldn't do it again, but also wouldn't.

01:22:05.095 --> 01:22:05.865
Change it now.

01:22:05.975 --> 01:22:09.165
It's, it's become a very good thing for us.

01:22:09.444 --> 01:22:16.144
even with all the negative that goes with it, it's still a very positive force, uh, for us and, and for our family.

01:22:16.164 --> 01:22:24.815
And so, I think that, That's a powerful thing to, to, to have and to, to be able to be a part of.

01:22:24.815 --> 01:22:30.478
So I think that's, we both see and appreciate that, on different levels, on different days.

01:22:30.478 --> 01:22:34.888
But you know, that's something that I think she would agree with pretty wholeheartedly.

01:22:35.527 --> 01:22:37.619
What about your kids as well?

01:22:38.689 --> 01:22:56.452
Just, yeah, one, if you can summarize like how I think your kids grew up with having a dad who's gone through event, you know, and who looks and in some ways, also deals with the routine of every life different than Sure.

01:22:56.643 --> 01:22:57.123
adults.

01:22:57.983 --> 01:23:00.143
Do you think this has also been a positive?

01:23:00.843 --> 01:23:05.783
change or a life giving kind of a force

01:23:06.276 --> 01:23:26.581
I think what done with them and I see this in them a lot because they've They've grown into just wonderful adults Our daughter was four when I got hurt and kind of remembers me Before she's like I have memories like glimmers of you before you got hurt Our son was two so he doesn't really remember me beforehand.

01:23:26.901 --> 01:23:37.476
What I've seen them do is is You as they've grown up, they've been exposed number one to the climbing community, which is, as you said before, like kind of the outlier community anyway.

01:23:37.476 --> 01:23:40.176
So they, they understand that like not everybody.

01:23:40.566 --> 01:23:43.626
Is like a normal nine to five person, right?

01:23:43.626 --> 01:23:47.576
You, we have friends who live in cars and we have friends who just travel.

01:23:47.576 --> 01:23:49.106
And so they've seen that.

01:23:49.186 --> 01:23:58.476
And then when I got hurt and, and the years after, I think they, their level of empathy for others, I see in them is.

01:23:58.727 --> 01:23:59.387
amazing.

01:23:59.747 --> 01:24:02.207
I'm sure a lot of that is just, that's their nature.

01:24:02.267 --> 01:24:16.394
But also I think that comes from seeing what I went through and what's, what Cindy and I have gone through together, where they go, there's a lot that had to be dealt with and, and he still deals with, but also I see them then reflect that to others.

01:24:16.484 --> 01:24:19.004
They, they actually will assist us in, in.

01:24:20.059 --> 01:24:23.569
Every now and again, um, our son will actually went with us to Hawaii.

01:24:23.569 --> 01:24:26.139
We did like an outdoor day with the veterans there.

01:24:26.139 --> 01:24:29.309
And so we needed a lot of hands and they've both been climbers their whole life.

01:24:29.309 --> 01:24:31.769
So they're at will actually works in a climbing gym.

01:24:32.059 --> 01:24:40.089
And so he, he is like, I'm watching him work with these individuals who, you know, many years older than him, disabled in one form or the other.

01:24:40.109 --> 01:24:41.309
And he just jumps right in.

01:24:41.349 --> 01:24:43.739
He's, he's like comfortable engaging.

01:24:44.014 --> 01:24:45.244
And our daughter is the same way.

01:24:45.244 --> 01:24:49.234
She's comfortable speaking and teaching and showing.

01:24:49.264 --> 01:24:56.304
And I think that comes from them being around this their whole life and just seeing, this is how my mom and dad do it.

01:24:56.464 --> 01:25:00.014
Um, I'm sure they get like, I always joke with my wife.

01:25:00.014 --> 01:25:03.553
Like I'm sure our son is tired of people telling him.

01:25:04.884 --> 01:25:10.234
That they know us at the gym, you know, like you don't want your, you don't want to know your parents that well.

01:25:10.254 --> 01:25:14.784
You just, you know, your parents are out there, but like there, you want separation when you're in your twenties.

01:25:15.509 --> 01:25:18.769
someone will text me and be like, Oh, I saw your son and I told him I know you.

01:25:18.769 --> 01:25:20.479
And I'm like, ah, he probably loved that.

01:25:21.029 --> 01:25:28.874
It's like, it's like everybody wants a little bit of separation, but I think now as they become like these, adults.

01:25:29.224 --> 01:25:55.109
Um, I see the emp Growing up in a, in a world of like, you see people who are just wrecked and still have a amazing quality of life and are happy and fulfilled and leading really valuable lives, um, with spouses, you know, all the, all the things that we all want, but like, you get to see this whole another facet of the, the adaptive world rolled into all of that.

01:25:55.129 --> 01:25:59.069
And I think that affects their, you know, How they deal with people in life in general.

01:26:00.686 --> 01:26:10.242
Your kids seem very intelligent and also perceptive all rounded.

01:26:10.838 --> 01:26:31.274
I'm wondering, did you just get lucky that your kids reacted and, took on this, life change in this best way possible in helping them develop these skills, or were there also some things you and your wife did more proactively?

01:26:32.189 --> 01:26:43.554
to help them understand what went on and how can, how this can be a, uh, this can be something that allows them now to just you know, be,

01:26:46.083 --> 01:26:54.547
We were always very honest with them, growing up when they were, if they had questions about what I have to deal with, how I have to deal with it.

01:26:55.007 --> 01:26:57.407
They have seen me through surgeries.

01:26:57.437 --> 01:26:59.707
They've seen, you know, everything.

01:26:59.727 --> 01:27:07.147
They've seen me when I'm really, you know, bad, like low after surgeries, things like that, where the recovery arc is very slow.

01:27:07.745 --> 01:27:18.190
a lot of it is luck, you know, that they came into this world they're leaning that way already, and then we just kind of help navigate that with them and guide them through that.

01:27:18.780 --> 01:27:20.620
They obviously were kids.

01:27:20.995 --> 01:27:30.794
They same trials and tribulations every kid has grown up, but I do feel like, they were able to see this piece that maybe a lot of people don't get to see.

01:27:31.034 --> 01:27:39.734
And that is, you know, the adaptive side of like, after trauma, what does that look like long term because they see it every day or whenever they're here.

01:27:40.081 --> 01:27:47.657
and I think that affects how you look at things, because it, it, it still affects how I look at things because like I said, it, it's a really good perspective builder.

01:27:47.687 --> 01:27:48.827
And I think that they.

01:27:49.512 --> 01:27:55.892
They have a very unique perspective because they got to see not only me, but they also saw how Cindy navigated it.

01:27:56.142 --> 01:27:58.692
And then they also see how the participants we work with.

01:27:59.047 --> 01:28:10.197
Navigate their own thing and so they're able to see all these different things in in real life in real time And then how does that affect them going forward?

01:28:10.217 --> 01:28:22.001
And and I think that some of that's left but then also some of that is I think it's probably just in the in them already That maybe just brought it to the surface a little quicker maybe Because they ask questions, right?

01:28:22.001 --> 01:28:23.994
They always ask they're they're They're smart.

01:28:24.034 --> 01:28:25.844
Like you said, they're very intelligent people.

01:28:25.854 --> 01:28:28.764
So they'll have questions like, why do you have to do this?

01:28:28.764 --> 01:28:29.724
And how does this work?

01:28:29.724 --> 01:28:30.754
And why does that happen?

01:28:30.754 --> 01:28:37.414
And, um, and like, uh, they're the only people that I'm going to like a completely open book to, like where I'll tell them anything they ask.

01:28:37.674 --> 01:28:45.534
Um, obviously when I'm, you know, meeting in public space, you know, you have that line of like, I'll share up to here, but then that's the rest of that's going to be private.

01:28:45.574 --> 01:28:49.814
And with your kids, you're just an open book or I am, I should say.

01:28:50.014 --> 01:28:53.184
And same with Cindy, you know, we just, we're very open and honest with them.

01:28:53.194 --> 01:28:53.474
Like.

01:28:54.064 --> 01:28:55.404
This is, this is what's happening.

01:28:55.404 --> 01:28:58.594
This is a challenge and this is what we're doing with it.

01:28:58.604 --> 01:29:00.864
So I think they've been able to see that as well.

01:29:00.874 --> 01:29:08.574
So I think that all kind of factors into how they've turned out in the world and, and maybe where they're going to end up in the world too.

01:29:08.574 --> 01:29:14.884
I don't know where that's going to be, but you know, it's just fun to watch that all change and evolve as, as they, as they grow.

01:29:15.695 --> 01:29:37.325
Yes, they took that one character building event came out, so much better for it coming towards the end of our, uh, conversation here, Craig, I wanted to ask you, is there a particular mantra or philosophy that, um, that you You live by that keeps you focused and, uh, driven.

01:29:38.370 --> 01:29:40.050
So I signed my emails.

01:29:40.320 --> 01:29:42.370
I have no idea who said this first.

01:29:42.430 --> 01:29:49.650
Um, I wish I knew, uh, but it says life is 10 percent circumstance and 90 percent my reaction.

01:29:49.650 --> 01:29:50.640
to those circumstances.

01:29:50.950 --> 01:29:59.070
And I think that is, I think I've always been geared that way, you know, where I've been a glass is half full kind of a person my whole life probably.

01:29:59.280 --> 01:30:09.000
But I think after getting injured and then as I've gotten older, I think it makes me really appreciate that and say, Yeah.

01:30:09.000 --> 01:30:12.130
you know what, this particular thing sucks, whatever that is.

01:30:12.924 --> 01:30:13.964
how am I going to react to it?

01:30:14.014 --> 01:30:27.400
Am I going to just lose my, Mind and just, you know, go down the rabbit hole or am I going to just okay, I'm going to move away from this and I've always told people like if you're moving and you're moving away from the trauma.

01:30:28.265 --> 01:30:29.425
That's a positive thing.

01:30:29.435 --> 01:30:33.865
If you're just spinning and staying in that same spot, then that becomes what defines you.

01:30:33.865 --> 01:30:44.185
And, and I don't think any of us want that negative thing or one thing to define who we are as a human, because in reality, it's just like a blip in the path.

01:30:44.185 --> 01:30:50.295
I mean, if you lay out your life in a linear line, that incident is one big bump, right?

01:30:50.295 --> 01:30:55.095
But it's like, it's not my whole Life So how I react to that is is very important.

01:30:55.155 --> 01:31:10.285
And, and I, Kind of then put that into everything, how I interface with people, the public, the, my family, my wife, it, it, those, that reaction is very valuable and, and I can, I get to control that.

01:31:10.405 --> 01:31:13.195
Um, that's one of those things that we do have control over.

01:31:13.485 --> 01:31:15.825
And um, I think that if you.

01:31:16.970 --> 01:31:18.440
Geared a certain way.

01:31:18.460 --> 01:31:19.570
You're going to do better.

01:31:19.610 --> 01:31:25.120
And you know, so if you're constantly focused on negative, obviously that's where you're going to be me.

01:31:25.120 --> 01:31:30.240
It's like, I want to take that circumstance and let my reaction be a positive spin on that.

01:31:30.280 --> 01:31:31.380
Whatever that's going to be.

01:31:31.980 --> 01:31:32.580
It works.

01:31:33.080 --> 01:31:38.720
99 percent of the time, it does not always work as, and I think everyone knows that, right?

01:31:38.740 --> 01:31:54.720
In life, you don't always bounce into the positive, um, sometimes negative, and even then, you have to react a particular way, and so, that reaction is going to dictate where you go It's, it's like, you're going to have to deal with the negative, how are you going to react to it?

01:31:54.750 --> 01:31:57.216
And so, for me, it's, I can control that.

01:31:57.216 --> 01:32:04.076
It's kind of comforting to me to know that, okay, this, I can react to this a particular way that's going to either help it or hurt it.

01:32:04.536 --> 01:32:05.496
What's that going to look like?

01:32:05.496 --> 01:32:07.466
So I think that comes with age.

01:32:07.506 --> 01:32:08.066
I do.

01:32:08.096 --> 01:32:25.551
That's one of the positives of getting older is like, have the ability and perspective to like, step back a little bit and be like, Oh, Okay, what is actually happening here and like, how is this going to work as opposed to just like, you know, firing off and just usually it isn't the right thing to do.

01:32:25.551 --> 01:32:31.611
So it's, it's nice to be able to have that maturity to sit back and say, okay, how am I going to react to this now?

01:32:31.611 --> 01:32:33.461
And then move forward with that.

01:32:33.471 --> 01:32:35.301
So that's been a good one for me.

01:32:36.052 --> 01:32:37.102
90 percent reaction.

01:32:37.102 --> 01:32:37.382
Yeah.

01:32:37.382 --> 01:32:43.292
Life is all about how we deal with what we are, confronted with every moment.

01:32:44.485 --> 01:32:46.735
You have obviously reacted in a way that.

01:32:46.745 --> 01:32:55.008
is inspiring Craig, but when you are out there again, you know, meeting many people out there who may not have had such a catalyst in their lives.

01:32:55.654 --> 01:33:05.675
Any message to them and how they can react better to, uh, the day to day and use that to their advantage

01:33:06.557 --> 01:33:08.647
I think a catalyst can come in any form.

01:33:08.827 --> 01:33:09.677
It can be big.

01:33:09.677 --> 01:33:10.607
It can be small.

01:33:10.957 --> 01:33:21.257
Um, I don't, people always think like, well, you had the, like, and I've had this conversation with people when I've done speaking things is they're like, you had this big event and then you recovered really well.

01:33:21.587 --> 01:33:23.887
And now you're, you, you move forward.

01:33:23.987 --> 01:33:26.447
And I'm like, yes and no.

01:33:26.487 --> 01:33:26.837
Yes.

01:33:26.857 --> 01:33:27.717
I had a big event.

01:33:28.457 --> 01:33:35.587
I only, I recovered to an extent and you know, I had to deal with a lot of things for the rest of my life, but it is.

01:33:36.097 --> 01:33:37.267
Is that catalyst?

01:33:37.837 --> 01:33:38.977
Yes, that was a big event.

01:33:39.127 --> 01:33:44.317
It doesn't have to be falling off a cliff because you know, everyone's going to fall off their own cliff, whatever that is.

01:33:44.317 --> 01:33:46.207
It's going to be, it could be emotional.

01:33:46.207 --> 01:33:54.227
It could be, you know, it could be heavy trauma, but it's, it still boils down to, okay, what are you going to do with that catalyst?

01:33:54.257 --> 01:33:57.217
And, and are you going to use it to move you forward?

01:33:57.217 --> 01:33:59.087
Are you going to use it to move you into the negative?

01:33:59.241 --> 01:34:01.631
and I think they come in all shapes and forms.

01:34:02.288 --> 01:34:08.148
I think you have to be willing to be flexible and change because we don't, it doesn't come the way you think it's going to come.

01:34:08.628 --> 01:34:10.688
I think I'm a testament to that.

01:34:11.048 --> 01:34:18.068
I didn't, you know, if you asked me 30 years ago, what I wanted to do, did I want to be a pro climber and, and teach how climb and, and.

01:34:18.218 --> 01:34:18.458
Do that.

01:34:18.498 --> 01:34:26.638
I would have said yes, but then if you said, well, you're going to get dropped off of a cliff first, then I'd been like, no, I never mind, you know?

01:34:26.638 --> 01:34:29.478
So it's like the catalyst come in all different shapes and forms.

01:34:29.478 --> 01:34:31.468
And it's usually not the way come.

01:34:31.498 --> 01:34:31.808
It's.

01:34:32.168 --> 01:34:33.498
It's sneaks up on you.

01:34:33.518 --> 01:34:37.568
And so I think you have to be open to that and, and looking for it.

01:34:37.608 --> 01:34:40.768
And, and that is what ends up moving you then forward.

01:34:41.591 --> 01:34:41.821
Craig.

01:34:41.841 --> 01:34:43.101
That profound.

01:34:45.321 --> 01:34:47.992
I was not expecting, I'm absorbing that.

01:34:48.412 --> 01:35:02.482
And I think others will as well, where one has to be available to catalyzed, to informed, to be, shaken up, to be shaken up out of.

01:35:03.457 --> 01:35:06.587
Whatever to be shaken out of.

01:35:06.667 --> 01:35:10.947
And it's like, when go a massage, you have to, you know, you have to relax your muscles.

01:35:11.397 --> 01:35:16.017
If you don't relax your muscles, then the chiropractor or the massage therapist do their job.

01:35:16.017 --> 01:35:21.607
So you have to be able to be willing to be soft and malleable.

01:35:22.257 --> 01:35:22.537
Great.

01:35:22.537 --> 01:35:24.817
Couple of final, final fun questions.

01:35:25.364 --> 01:35:31.474
What has been the best hundred dollars you've spent recently?

01:35:31.834 --> 01:35:32.924
be a different amount.

01:35:33.718 --> 01:35:37.428
Oh, buying a plane ticket to Spain with my wife.

01:35:37.878 --> 01:35:38.198
Yeah.

01:35:38.558 --> 01:35:39.078
Go climbing.

01:35:41.748 --> 01:35:43.188
It was more than a hundred dollars though.

01:35:44.099 --> 01:35:53.678
I was gonna say you will have to let me on your, uh, your, plane buying, definitely.

01:35:53.718 --> 01:35:57.778
Definitely more than a hundred, but it that was like the best money spent.

01:35:57.828 --> 01:35:59.588
So yeah, lately that's the best.

01:36:00.295 --> 01:36:00.805
Amazing.

01:36:00.805 --> 01:36:00.985
Yeah.

01:36:00.985 --> 01:36:09.515
Glad you had a delightful time in Spain as, as most of us would on a climbing trip, escaping the, uh, the cold in Colorado.

01:36:12.015 --> 01:36:15.455
what is a meal that you could eat every day?

01:36:16.649 --> 01:36:17.669
uh, pasta.

01:36:17.869 --> 01:36:20.929
I could, I'm, I'm Italian.

01:36:21.019 --> 01:36:23.719
I grew up in a Italian family and I could do that.

01:36:23.739 --> 01:36:25.219
I could do that every day.

01:36:25.719 --> 01:36:26.969
I don't think I would ever get tired.

01:36:26.969 --> 01:36:26.989
Right.

01:36:29.639 --> 01:36:30.509
We do, we do.

01:36:30.529 --> 01:36:54.264
Actually, every Christmas, uh, my wife makes, I grew up, my mom made homemade raviolis every Christmas, and so my wife kind of took that on as when the kids were little, and so we make, they make, I just kind of help a little bit, uh, she'll make the dough, she'll make the meat, and it's, yeah, I could eat, again, like, there's so many different kinds of pasta, that's why I've, I've Find it easy to say I could eat that pretty much every day.

01:36:54.364 --> 01:36:54.794
I love it.

01:36:56.949 --> 01:36:58.449
Homemade pasta, nothing better.

01:36:59.669 --> 01:37:11.564
Craig, um, if There was one message you could leave on a giant billboard in a highway, would that Just that it's, this is all fluid.

01:37:11.774 --> 01:37:12.734
It's all changing.

01:37:12.894 --> 01:37:15.304
Um, don't get stuck on right now.

01:37:15.344 --> 01:37:16.954
Like whatever it is, good or bad.

01:37:17.044 --> 01:37:18.804
It's, it's a fluid situation.

01:37:19.084 --> 01:37:23.414
And that's what I, I tell people, I tell myself that all the time, like good or bad.

01:37:23.424 --> 01:37:26.474
Like if you've just climbed El Cap, that's awesome.

01:37:26.514 --> 01:37:27.804
It's fluid and going to change.

01:37:27.834 --> 01:37:31.114
If you are laying in bed in chronic pain, that's awesome.

01:37:31.284 --> 01:37:32.294
That's going to change as well.

01:37:32.294 --> 01:37:34.844
It's, it's always fluid and moving.

01:37:34.844 --> 01:37:37.554
And as long as you can embrace that, you're going to do fine.

01:37:37.694 --> 01:37:40.324
Just realize that it is not the rest of your life.

01:37:40.324 --> 01:37:42.524
It's just, it's just today.

01:37:42.604 --> 01:37:46.204
So like deal with it, move forward because it's going to change tomorrow.

01:37:47.869 --> 01:37:48.399
Sure.

01:37:48.919 --> 01:37:49.239
Yeah.

01:37:49.289 --> 01:38:02.082
that, that that is again, uh, going down, uh, to the wisdom you Embrace present uh, beautiful Craig.

01:38:02.092 --> 01:38:10.367
It's been a delightful Thank you so joining us Thank you for having me.

01:38:10.367 --> 01:38:16.383
It's been, been my pleasure Wow.

01:38:16.413 --> 01:38:17.343
What a journey.

01:38:17.943 --> 01:38:20.403
I instead of buzzing from this chat with Greg.

01:38:21.423 --> 01:38:29.703
After his life altering accident, Craig's determination to return to climbing, not just as a participant, but as a competitor.

01:38:30.033 --> 01:38:30.543
Is unreal.

01:38:31.353 --> 01:38:34.473
It speaks volumes about his trend and resilience.

01:38:35.193 --> 01:38:41.643
And his victories in adaptive climbing competitions are a powerful Testament to the human spirits ability.

01:38:42.046 --> 01:38:43.516
To overcome any obstacle.

01:38:43.760 --> 01:38:48.230
But what truly sets Craig apart is his passion for giving back.

01:38:48.950 --> 01:38:52.070
He has used his experience to inspire an.

01:38:52.820 --> 01:38:53.690
Empower others.

01:38:54.170 --> 01:38:58.490
Sharing the joy of climbing with veterans and individuals with disabilities.

01:38:59.060 --> 01:39:01.490
Proving that allegation in community.

01:39:02.210 --> 01:39:03.110
Anything is possible.

01:39:04.010 --> 01:39:06.980
There are so many things of how this colonization that I cherish.

01:39:07.910 --> 01:39:09.260
Being open to change.

01:39:09.770 --> 01:39:11.030
Having growth mindset.

01:39:11.840 --> 01:39:12.860
Always being present.

01:39:14.000 --> 01:39:15.830
But also, always looking forward.

01:39:16.910 --> 01:39:18.980
I loved his ending life mantra.

01:39:19.640 --> 01:39:21.530
10% circumstance.

01:39:21.950 --> 01:39:24.110
90% reaction to that.

01:39:24.710 --> 01:39:29.690
Yes, it does all about what we do with what life throws at us.

01:39:30.650 --> 01:39:31.520
I'm not a parent.

01:39:31.670 --> 01:39:34.130
Well, I have Roger, my little pooch.

01:39:34.910 --> 01:39:35.450
Anyhow.

01:39:35.480 --> 01:39:38.390
So Barfield lessons also for raising a family.

01:39:38.990 --> 01:39:46.640
You can follow Craig's adventures on his Insta at Creek Dem C R a I G D E M.

01:39:47.210 --> 01:39:50.840
And if you want to work with him at the non-profit.

01:39:51.440 --> 01:39:53.600
Adaptive adventures.org.

01:39:54.380 --> 01:39:57.770
Thank you again for joining us on each athlete.

01:39:58.400 --> 01:40:04.640
Creeks story is a reminder that the path to achieving our dreams is rarely straightforward.

01:40:05.480 --> 01:40:07.880
It's about embracing the detours.

01:40:08.900 --> 01:40:10.460
Adapting to change.

01:40:11.270 --> 01:40:12.950
And finding strengths and passions.

01:40:13.790 --> 01:40:17.960
MI Craig's journey motivates you to push your boundaries.

01:40:18.050 --> 01:40:19.520
Find joy in movement.

01:40:20.150 --> 01:40:22.730
And never stop chasing those dreams.

01:40:24.080 --> 01:40:25.220
Until next time.

01:40:26.420 --> 01:40:29.330
Get outside, enjoy the spring, read the.

01:40:30.170 --> 01:40:31.430
Stay adventurous.

01:40:32.240 --> 01:40:33.020
Stay healthy.

01:40:33.530 --> 01:40:34.370
And stages.

01:40:34.430 --> 01:40:34.820
Plus.