The Fittest People Don’t Always Reach the Summit — What a Six-Time Everest Guide Knows | Luis Benitez

Ageless Athlete - Luis Benitez -
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Luis: [00:00:00] I do think that,when you transition from being a full-time athlete to l- you know, life taking over and doing other things, all of your normal routines, have to be somewhat adapted to deal with that, that, that daily life.

I'm a big believer in getting, sunshine in the morning. a- and I, and I think it's, uh... So often people commute back and forth to work or, just sort of poke their head outside to see what the weather's doing, depending on what's going on. I, I really try to get at least 10 minutes of sunshine, i- in the morning.

And being in Colorado in the United States we get a lot of, a lot of daylight. so it's nice in the morning to, to get that. I find it sort of juxtaposes the screen time that most people, fall into straight away, and al- allows you to start your day a little differently. So that's, that's a pretty normal rou- routine for me.

Kush: you mentioned some of the background you used to have before this [00:01:00] current season of your life, and I thought I could ask you a fun question around, is there some habit or routine that you kept from your days as an athlete and as a mountain guide that you, you refuse to give up? 

Luis: Yeah. You know, I think it's, uh, it, it's this general, you know, being a full-time mountain guide and, and a climber for fun, you have to sort of have this baseline level of fitness that you can never really let go of.



Luis: uh, you know, amongst friends, it's sort of that always ready mantra. Like, if you get a call tomorrow to go do fill in the blank, are, are you ready? Are you functionally ready? And for me, I think it's a holdover from being, a somewhat of a sick little kid, but then also being a, a professional athlete for a long time, is just being always ready.

an example I'll give you, we're, we are... do a lot of river rafting in Colorado and in [00:02:00] Utah, and, usually in the spring and summer months. And I think being a multi-discipline athlete as a parent is really fun, 'cause your kids can get into the fun stuff with you. And that the day we went last spring was, uh, just one of those classic days where the wind's blowing the wrong direction, and if you don't stay on the, the oars rowing the raft, you're going to be blown not in the way you wanna go.

And so I needed to stay on the oars for, oof, it was about nine and a half hours. And when you think of being on a rowing machine for, 45 minutes and then you're done, my wife and I had this conversation of like, how, where did that come from? How are you able to, to do that and not completely fall apart?

And I think it's this concept of being, just being ready for stuff like that. So I think the thing that I tried to carry over is, you know, being healthy later in life. it's, it's about maintaining this baseline of fitness, but also [00:03:00] being ready for those larger days, where you don't wanna get hurt that, that kinda keep it fun and interesting.

So that, that's probably the biggest holdover. 

Kush: you're taking us right into the action there. I mean, I can't but help dive into the segue, no pun intended. Sure. Which is, um, mind sharing with us some of your practices routines that are helping- Yeah ... you stay battle ready. 

Luis: Yeah. I currently work for, a, a company that, that is deeply invested in, yoga and the practice of yoga.

And so for me, I think stretching, flexibility, yoga, have been sort of a cornerstone of making sure everything, everything still works. So mobility, I think, is an important part of, uh, of, of the routine. and then, uh, strength, the, this balance between strength training and cardio training has always been, you know, there's a lot of discussion, there's a real- a lot of really good things out there about it.

But as a mountaineer, I joke with, [00:04:00] former and current colleagues in this, they say, you know, it's, you got one speed, low and slow. You just have to be able to keep it in one gear and one speed, but go forever and ever and ever and ever, and have a little bit left in the gas tank for when you need it.

And so I find that, sort of these long, slow en- endurance pieces,are a big, a big thing for me. and I think to be able to do that requires a, a lot of work on mobility to make sure ankles and hips and knees and, you know, shoulders. I think as we get older, to the point of your audience and some of the things I've talked about on your podcast, um, it, if you don't pay attention to the mobility piece, things tend to fall apart.

So that, it really is the cornerstone for me. 

Kush: Do you have a self-guided practice? what, what kind of mobility practice do you have? 

Luis: Yeah, that's a great question. You know, I, I think the Internet's an, an interesting and helpful place all at the same time, but what I, what I find really interesting is [00:05:00] what you can find out there in the conte- in the context of best practices.

So I do a lot of work with, TheraBands, the rubber bands for mobility work, mostly sh- for shoulders and hips, knees and, and ankles. just some light, stretching in the con- uh, people make fun of it. They call it old people yoga, which I, I tend to push back against. Um, there's the strength-based yoga and then there's the, the real stretching,and more static position yoga, and I tend to do a little bit more of the, of the stretching pieces,for that.

And then I also,try to work pretty hard on, uh, ba- uh, balance board, the incorporation of balance boards as well. 'cause then there's the slow twitch and then the fast twitch muscles that I find that if you're just doing static stretching and yoga and, sort of TheraBand rubber band work compared to that fast twitch of being on a balance board, I find that's a little different.

And- You know, like many of us who have to sit in front of a computer for quite a bit,being able to, to get up and move [00:06:00] around, um, and have a standing desk and be on a balance board is really fun until you slide off screen when you're on a, on a Zoom call or a video call. 

Kush: mean, you look pretty still right now, but I, for a second I was imagining you kind of being on a, on a wobble board as we are- 

Luis: Yeah

Kush: doing this recording. 

Luis: It's, I, I try to warn people before I'm on a call when it comes to that. Just like, if you see me wiggling around a little bit, just 'cause I find, like, that's the incorporation that you have to do in your daily life, to be able to, take meetings while you're going for a walk, to be on a wobble board, and when you're on a call.

To be able to bring these things together, so it's not just, it's not separated. Like, here's the time to take care of myself, here's the time to work, here's the time for family. it kinda needs to flow a- and intersect

Kush: In a given week Perhaps in a normal week, and I understand that you have a busy life and maybe there are not too many normal weeks, let's say in a desired week where things go as planned, what is your [00:07:00] workout, mobility, balance board, like how much time are you spending? Are you doing like, you know, the classic split where you're spending maybe one day doing weights, maybe some other- Mm-hmm

kind of muscular training? Yeah, mind sharing some of that? 

Luis: so it's... And I, and again, you, you said it correctly. It depends on sort of what the goals are, that are close in versus far out. So for me, coming up there's a, a 17 mile mountain pass race in Colorado, um, called the Imogene Pass race where you are running or, uh, trying to move from Ouray, Colorado to Telluride, Colorado.

So it's, it's over a high mountain pass at high altitude. so getting ready for that involves, a lot of treadmill at incline, at a nominal speed with a weight vest on. So trying to stress out that again, long and slow. So that tends to be, a little bit of my treadmill work these days.

And then to your point about strength training, I'm constantly [00:08:00] incorporating strength training from a free weight perspective to, using a finger board. So it's the push pull exercises for me more than anything else. Um, a- and legs tends to be that wobble board, balancing yoga, stretching static, just 'cause of all the heavy work I get on, on, on the treadmill.

I think I try to, for me, I try to stay away from machines and focus more on dumbbells,and free weights just because I find that the core engagement that you have to have to move those around as opposed to, a more static machine tends to make things move a little bit more.

And I'm a big believer in, uh, the TRX bands as well, in using those. I find that for anybody that's busy or travels, doesn't have access to a gym, you know, the concept was created by, Navy Seals and it's still utilized to this day for a lot of special forces when they travel. and I, I take one everywhere I go, so I don't even have to worry about a gym,if it's not [00:09:00] available.



Kush: I love my TRX cables. You, you, you're speaking to the right person here. Uh, I've been spending a lot of time traveling in a van over the last year and a half, and I have a hang board in my van. I have a number of- 

Luis: Yeah ... 

Kush: resistance bands. There you go. I have a yoga mat and I have those TRX bands because the 

Luis: cables are- Yeah, they're amazing

so versatile. Yeah. They're, they're absolutely amazing and they're so versatile, and then you can also scale the amount of impact- based on the weight that you step in or step out of, wh- while you use them. And I find that, people like us that are somewhat true believers of the system that really get into the exercises and the mobility, I mean, it's also a mobility tool as well for shoulders,and for hips.

You know, I have the same fingerboard I've had since I was in, the 11th grade, so quite young, and it's, being able to do hangs between calls, being able to have some of those, those pieces. Again, I think it boils down to as you get older, that fast twitch and slow [00:10:00] twitch, muscle engagement.

and I just find that people that have outdoor activities as a part of their routine, you know, when you go out and walk on a trail versus on a sidewalk and you have to respond to the terrain under your feet and rocks and weather and all these other things, it just, it engages so much more of what you need to pay attention to 

Kush: Lewis, one thing that you talked about, which is you talked about being battle-ready and then you also spoke about this one particular race that you have coming up that you are maybe loosely preparing for.

I also believe that it is important to have some of these tangible goals, like these things you wanna accomplish because I think they add, they act as this North Star in helping us plan our workouts, plan our days versus, you know, more abstract types of, health benchmarks that are prescribed. "Hey, if you don't [00:11:00] take care of yourself right now, maybe you will become pre-diabetic or you might have these other conditions."

And I'm curious, in your point of view, how important is it because you see all kinds of people in the line of work you do and in your prior career as, as a mountain guide, like how important is it to have these goals, these athletic goals, if I may, in helping, helping us, helping busy people stay with their workout program, their habits?

Luis: Yeah, no, that's a great question. I think it's, um, you know, we, we can't forget that it, it obviously is, it's human to be on medicine. It's human to need some of these things. I, I think it's, one of the pieces that you can have big goals and be on blood pressure medicine. You can have big [00:12:00] goals and be pre-diabetic or diabetic.

I, I think it- it's interesting. I, during the pandemic, um, a, a friend of mine who owned a CrossFit studio, which, you know, is becoming more globally, seen or heard about, you know, I, he and I would get into these debates all the time about, "Oh, that's too much load, and if you're not professional, you're gonna destroy your shoulders and your hips, and it's gonna be, it's awful.

No- nobody pushes that kind of weight over your head or to, you know, your knees and your hips unless you're, you're a professional. The impact is just crazy And his comment was always, "Well, you know, you can modify. you can just, you know, you, you can lift a, a feather in your hand or just do it without weight for mobility.

It's all about, meeting yourself where you're at." And I really tested the theory. And the thing about him also that is amazing is, you know, he is at the competitive level at the master's level. He's in his 50s. and he's, he's a stage one diabetic,he has to [00:13:00] monitor these things incredibly closely, and every time we would work out together, just smoke me, just leave me i- in the dust, just incredibly strong a- and, um, really an all-around athlete.

And so I think the thing to remember is, 'cause it, it's intimidating and it's hard, and I know that, as you get older, side effects from medication are a very real thing. You know, there are medicines out there that may help your blood pressure, may help your cholesterol, may help, the things that you actually have going on, but one of the side effects is fatigue, and one of the side effects is, you know, muscle cramping.

So how do you work out through that? what does it mean to still be able to find that and not just be completely depressed by what's going on? And I think the important thing and, you know, it's kind of what I mean by being always ready, is you have to find the pieces that allow you to move, in a healthy way and even in the midst of some of those things.

[00:14:00] So- I've worked with clients in the past that go to the Himalayas and really enjoy going to the Himalayas, but their knees and hips just aren't what they used to be. they needed to get, increase their lung capacity. They, they were having trouble trying to figure out how, 'cause the mileage for cardio was incredibly difficult.

But now with the advent of, these, um, hypoxic tents that you can sleep in, and then one of the things that we would talk about is, and Laird Hamilton, who's a longtime professional athlete and big wave surfer, brought this to the forefront of doing work underwater at stress. So carrying weights and walking from one end of the pool, to the other, as long as you can till you just can't hold your breath anymore, created this really interesting physiological response.

So I think you have to stay curious into finding, new ways to, to approach things. I tell people all the time, when I was training for my first expedition on Everest, I had no idea [00:15:00] what I was doing. I thought I needed to be a cardiovascular machine, and I needed to be able to carry a heavy pack, and that was it.

So work out till you vomit, then get cleaned up and then do it all over again, and you have to be able to do all these things. Had zero prep mentally for mental preparation, other than the difficulty of, of actually working out. And so, you know, the discouraging parts of getting older, having things fall apart, sometimes having to go on medicine, physiologically changing, there, there's a mental component of training that I don't think people often take into account, and staying curious about finding the right combination that will still allow you to move forward.

If I trained the way I did when I was 20 now, I would c- I would completely implode. There's no way I could do it. And frankly, I wouldn't want to. And recovery is so much more of a tool when you get older that before I thought rest day was a bad word. Like, there are no rest days. There's never any rest days.

if [00:16:00] I tried to do that now, it would be a very, very short trip to injury and fatigue 

Kush: I am familiar with the type of training Laird Hamilton does, and yes, it's caught on... Yeah, it's caught on amongst some circles. Yeah. People talk about it. But are you saying that these days somebody who's preparing to climb a big peak, they are advised to look into these training techniques which range from, yes, uh, sleeping in hypoxic, h- or h- what is it?

Hyperbaric chambers, and- 

Luis: Yep ... 

Kush: and also, uh, learn how to conduct these, these pool exercises as that's maybe this potent combination that's gonna get you into kind of shape? 

Luis: Yeah. What I tell people all the time is on summit day on a big peak, or Mount Everest or any other big peak,you're the most tired, you're the [00:17:00] skinniest, and all you wanna do is go home, and that's the time when you have to be at your best, oftentimes for, 20 hours plus.

Incredibly difficult physically and mentally. And so being ready for that requires a lot of discomfort and confusion in your workout routines. and I do find that mixing it up, shaking it up, having a n- really strong base, but trying some of these other pieces,have really come in handy,for a lot of people.

And I think the, whether it's reluctance or, "Well, how's that gonna help? I just don't understand it," what I find on, in the Himalayas on big peaks, the, the very highly tuned and highly trained that follow every calorie and every pull-up, those are usually the folks that tend to go home early. The people that stay are the ones that, still have a favorite piece of cake on the weekend.

They, they understand how the mental process factors in. they stay curious [00:18:00] within the discomfort of preparation. I, I say a lot that people that are used to finishing in first place on races and on things tend to have a harder time in the Himalayas. The people that are used to finishing third, fourth, fifth, sixth place in things tend to do better because they not only have that mental fortitude, but they also know that in the midst of setbacks you have to find a way to keep putting one foot in front of the other.

and that oftentimes, really translates into mental and physical wellbeing long-term more than any other prescriptive approach to, uh, to, to being ready or being fit. 

Kush: I'm glad you spoke about the mental game. Lewis, many people when they think of, yeah, apex fitness, you know, the just the upper echelons, upper, upper echelons of like human capacity, they think of High altitude Himalayan mountaineers.

And I think people get wrapped up in, [00:19:00] like, all the physical attributes and may forget that the mental part is so vital in helping, and you articulated that a little bit. And I'm curious, if you don't mind spending a moment and helping us understand, like, what differentiates, those clients, those people that you've guided up peaks all over the planet, and the clients who, who finish.

You know, may- maybe not just clients, maybe even guides, maybe just, peers of yours who are able to continue and get to the summit versus those who give up. 

Luis: Yeah. No, that, I mean that's the, that's the question that tends to elude us, right? 'Cause there's no specific formula that if you do this and you do that, you're guaranteed this.

and this is, I think, beyond weather or beyond incidents on, on a mountain. you know, I think truly the thing that differentiates is, how you [00:20:00] handle and manage stress i- is a, is a big thing. you know, talking again about rest days or sort of taking downtime, I find that, you know, when you... A- again, we'll use Everest as an example.

When you arrive at the bottom of the mountain, you're at, for people that measure in feet, at about 18,000 feet before you even begin. And there's a lot of things that have to happen before you start the climb. you have to have a Puja ceremony with your Sherpas that, which is somewhat of a, an asking for a blessing for the, the climb and bringing the Sherpa community and the, the, the climbers together.

you need to get gear ready to go and get moved in, set up tents, sort food, sort gear for carries higher on the mountain. It's about a week that you're in camp getting ready before you even start up the mountain. And I find that the people that just get really stir-crazy, that I can- that cannot sit still,are the ones that have challenges higher up.

that don't see the value in a rest day, being able to turn off your brain, watch a movie, read a book, write in your journal, [00:21:00] go for a walk. re- really, really rest. Being able to truly rest mentally and physically. the, the people that are capable of doing that and really unplugging are usually the ones that are, are happier and are more successful.

So when the call comes in, "Rest day, we're not moving because of weather," instead of, you can really get yourself worked up mentally to the point of where there's physical manifestations of your mental state. We all know that. If somebody's really stressed, you can start to present as somebody that's a little sick or, just doesn't feel very well.

And I think the people that, that truly enjoy playing cards for seven hours, that will read book after book, that will get into long conversations about anything and everything and have that be defined as a fantastic day, those are the ones that tend to do better 

Kush: Wow. No, Lewis, that is so insightful. yes, you can be this finely tuned [00:22:00] athlete, but if you don't, if you haven't built up the patience to be able to, chillax, quote-unquote- Yes

in a, in a tent- Of course ... or like a, a day, two days longer because you're snowed out and you haven't figured out how to, keep the fire burning while still being able to rest and I mean, that, that could be like maybe the most unsung skill in- ... in being able to- 

Luis: And, and again, you know, I get that like if you're laying around in a tent at altitude, there's lassitude.

That can invite altitude sickness, but I'll give you a good example. We were on an expedition on Denali in Alaska, on Mount McKinley. We were at high camp, which is notorious for getting hit by bad weather, um, where you really can't move very far. and so I remember having this conversation with my clients.

You know, everybody's laying around reading books, but eventually the books run out, the, what you're, the, the podcasts and audiobooks run out, and you just, you're there staring at the tent ceiling, in, in the tent. And so I, I [00:23:00] called to the other tents,who wants to have a snow cave Olympics?"

And like, "Snow, what's that?" "Snow cave Olympics." And so I told this story about, you know, Denali's high camp, because of the weather, is really well known for having snow caves, dug in. 'Cause when the weather really gets bad, if tents get blown apart, there's this amazing little spot, and if we dig a really great snow cave, that's a place to hang out during the storm.

And there are all these people like, "Wait, we can do that?" Like, is that... "What are you talking about we can do that? We have a bunch of, of shovels in camp already. We can do in rotations to stay warm and dry. We can be making tea all day long. we can dig a really sweet hangout spot, 'cause it looks like this storm is gonna stick around for a couple days."

And so, you know, not overdoing it, not overworking, our team and a couple other teams got out and dug their own caves with an intricate network of tunnels in between them and all kinds of fun stuff. and in the middle of the storm we were able to get out of the tent, go into the cave, hang out, have some tea, sit upright, visit other teams.

And I [00:24:00] won't say that this is a recipe for success in all circumstances, but when the weather finally broke and we had a chance to go for the top, a lot of the teams that just laid around and did nothing,had a lower summit rate that, on that expedition than the ones that got up, got out, made it fun and interesting around camp, and didn't just lay there, being really upset about bad weather.

Kush: profound lesson in- ... making lemonade- 

Luis: Yeah ... 

Kush: when- 

Luis: You have to ... 

Kush: life gives... Yeah 

Luis: And maybe, maybe, 

Kush: you know, I, I was just thinking, I was just thinking of parallels. I mean, maybe my mind went to, you know, stuck in, stuck in some sort of, dark basement or a dungeon, like trying to wait out World War II somewhere, you know, somewhere in Europe.

And maybe people who were, who were able to survive the worst of those long periods before they could be rescued were the ones who were somehow [00:25:00] managed to keep hope going and, and activity going and, uh, yeah, just keeping the spirits up. Made it past those periods and lived forever and after, versus maybe others who let the mental fatigue get to them 

Luis: Yeah.

Well, and that mental fatigue, it's real. And I, and I'm sure your listeners, like how do you relate? How does this make sense? Like I'm a busy stay-at-home parent or I have a job and I try to get out on the weekends and get after my goals. You know, when our daughter was born, you know, I'm used to working out in the daytime and factoring it into everything.

And having a small baby at home, that was not going to work with just the schedules and what was going on. And a friend of mine who worked for the company, um, Petzl, the headlamp harness, the, the equipment company, wonderful guy. He's the American CEO, Tom Adams. He said, "Oh, buddy, you gotta get used to doing things by headlamp [00:26:00] now."

I'm like, what are you talking about?" He's like, "Y- you get used to working out in the dark. When everybody's asleep and every- and the day is done, you have to find the mental and physical fortitude to get out there and run, work out, like do things in the dark." And the first couple years were ju- I mean, it's, any, any parent knows it's incredibly hard to find time for yourself to figure out how to put it together.

but slowly I developed this affinity for, working out and running i- in the dark, aft- after dark. So when everybody else would go to sleep that, that was my time. And what I found was the mental and physical game for m- for me, which sort of simulates time at altitude and time on big expeditions is, after a really long day of work, parenting, everything else, I, I needed to figure out how to dig deep and get done what I needed to get done, which is very, very similar to, to summit days on, on [00:27:00] big expeditions.

or big carry days or days when you're recovering from illness. And so what I found was, oh, this is actually a better training block than if I was able to do it in the sunshine on my own schedule when I felt the best. 

Kush: Yeah. 

Luis: Um, a lot of times it was when I was feeling the worst. And that, that again, choosing discomfort, staying curious about how you put it together, without even knowing what I was doing, I was actually improving, my chances and my fitness by, by choosing to do it in that way.

and so much so now that even our daughter is older, I choose to stay in that routine. I do a lot of my stuff in the dark.

Kush: Sometimes you choose discomfort, sometimes discomfort comes your way, and you make the best of that, and it helps you become more resilient. fascinated about the kind of work that happens with high altitude guiding. I've only had the distinction of hiring [00:28:00] a guide in recent memory. I was, I was, uh, trying to do a 6K in, in Bolivia a couple of years ago, and I was so impressed at the work that guides put in, like all around, like the kind of risks they're taking, the kind of work they're putting in.

They really are the heroes. 

Curious, what do outsiders not completely get or maybe misunderstand about- Hmm ... what guides are actually responsible for? 

Luis: Yeah. Excellent question. A- and I think it's often, you know, when I talk to guides that are, that are thinking about making the transition to a different line of work because life has changed, family has changed, it's often quite difficult to translate the skills.

Like, how is what I do valuable? And what I also find, and this is mostly for the American military, and actually having worked with the Indian military over the years, putting down on paper what you do as [00:29:00] a, a Special Forces soldier and how that translates to business or life, they often find it very, very difficult.

Like, how do I explain that I did the, you know, managed multi-million dollar budgets, led people into dangerous situations, brought them out safely? How does that translate to leadership st- skills, communication skills? I think the thing that most people miss about guiding is, th- a lot of folks understand and think it's what lives in the box is I sign up to pay for an expert in the spaces and places where I'm about to go that will walk me through those places safely, give me a good experience, and r- return me back in one piece.

And all those things hopefully are true if you hire a good guide. I think the things that a lot of people miss are the, the dedication that it takes to have that skill set is much like being a soldier. Probably one of the more selfish things y- you can choose in life. It's, it needs to be, all-consuming to be really, really good at the [00:30:00] craft.

And, and what I mean by that is not just guiding trip after trip after trip after trip, which makes you good, 'cause mileage does help, but it's also studying new techniques, understanding, when accidents happen, being part of the evaluation on what goes wrong, what gets better, taking classes to understand logistics,and how to move things around like supply chain experts would do in business.

And so it's one of these all-consuming things that I think, um, being a part of facilitating that experience for others is sort of the cornerstone of it, but the thing that a lot of people miss is just how much attention to the craft must be paid to, to do it really well 

Kush: Because you are indeed responsible for human lives in the most delicate conditions.

Luis: Mm-hmm. 

Kush: One of the things that also fascinates me about, about guiding culture [00:31:00] is this decision box you have to work with, with turnarounds. Because on the outside-

Because you have to... I believe your first duty is to bring clients back home. At the same time, you are being literally paid to take these clients to the summit. So is there something about this turnaround

decision box that is not obvious to the rest of us Mm-hmm. 

Luis: I hate to simplify it in this way, but this has been a part of my process, since I started guiding in my, in my teens at 19. and I learned this from a mentor of mine, Willie W- his name was Willie Pretty. He's an inc- incredible guy, um, an American guy.

I will tell clients the closer we get to a [00:32:00] summit that, that I, I do not work for them, I work for their family. and no decision that I will be making on our time together will be reflective of your wants, your goals, and your needs. The decisions that I will be making will be reflective on what I think your family would want me to do.

And what that translates to being is incredibly conservative and incredibly safe, to the point where I've been called a grandma before on trips, that if it smells wrong or weird, Luis is the first one to turn around and go home. and all of that is true, because I think the instinct that you have to hone in being a good guide, and you hear this as well a lot, but you don't pay for a good guide for when things go right, you pay for a good guide for when things go wrong.

And, and I think understanding how to walk through that when things are going wrong and, and also being able to accept the pressure. the best example I could [00:33:00] give, 'cause it's the highest level of making these decisions, is when we turned around a team, on Everest. completely called the expedition off based on what we were seeing up on the mountain, our timeline for needing to be done, and the amount of teams that were sort of stacking on top of one another that were getting, were sort of landing on our date that we were all gonna be up high together.

my perception at the time was that we were walking into a mess, and it was, you know, when you're above a certain elevation, there isn't a lot of time for mistakes or room for error, and so I made an incredibly conservative call to, to end the expedition Now, were there other teams that still summited later on?

Absolutely. Did some of them have frostbite? Yes. Did people die? Absolutely. does that mean I made the right or wrong call? Who knows? I think there's a, a, a part of it that was right and a part of it that was wrong. But for me, again, always erring on the side of being conservative and working for a client's family, is w- always [00:34:00] my go-to.

And I will say that every client on that expedition subsequently came back years later, every single one ended up summer- summiting Everest with me on different expeditions. so I think there's a value to being conservative. and, and you also sort of attract clients of a certain mindset. I know guiding companies out there that sort of market themselves as pushing it a little bit, taking a little bit more risks, moving fast and light, and if you can't move fast and light, you can't come with us.

So they, they sort of define themselves by being all about, a somewhat of a different culture and a different mindset, um, which is not what I put out there. So I think how you present yourself as a guide is sort of the clients that you bring in. and that, that's sort of reflective in what you do and how you do it 

Kush: I can imagine that these decisions are highly complex, but maybe keeping that, uh, that rule in front of you that, one, you have to follow whatever the guide says and that the guide's first [00:35:00] responsibility is to bring that person safe, hopefully means that one makes more correct decisions than incorrect ones and, like no decision is worth risking or losing a life.

Is there, I mean, maybe for people listening, some people who are considering, uh, hiring a guiding service for like some mountaineering goal they might have, is there like some rubric, Louis, that maybe a, a few things they should look out for when they are selecting one? 

Luis: You know, it's such an interesting question.

so for a long time the American Mountain Guide Association and the International, um, Mountaineering, International Mountain Guides Association, um, have worked really hard to say, "Listen, you, if you're gonna hire a guide, make sure that it's an accredited guide, that they need to have this credential."

So there, there is a way to say, listen, if they've got the IFMGA or the AMGA or the UIAGM for Europe, or in Latin [00:36:00] America, the, the system that I went through, which is the ASEIGUM, it's like this word salad of just make sure they're an accredited guide by an ac- accredited accreditation process. And I think that's, that, that's an important thing to consider.

But I will also tell you, you don't need an accreditation to guide on Mount Everest. You don't need an accreditation to guide in, Bolivia, for instance, how you, what you mentioned. you do need an accreditation to guide in Ecuador. you need an accreditation to guide in Alaska. So I think it depends on where you're going.

It also depends on,what you're after. What... And what I say is like anything else, for a big purchase, do your homework, do your diligence. Not just the ranking of the company, but when the company assigns you a guide, it's pretty easy these days with social media to find clients that have been with that guide before.

it's like having references, right? And it's not asking the company for references 'cause the company will give you [00:37:00] the clients that will sing the praises of, every single client. What I used to offer to, clients w- I'm gonna give you some names and numbers of people that I've turned around before, but that I'm actually still friends with, and that we still go out and do trips.

So you can understand the good and the bad. And I think any guide worth their weight should be willing to talk about the successes as well as the failures and w- and what they are and aren't capable of. Um, and those are the things you should be looking for 

Kush: Social media does work in great ways sometimes.

One can- Yeah ... go and find a lot of this information

Yeah, but just a little bit of internet savviness. Luis, one maybe, I'm wondering if there's some lesson here from just this complex decision-making around turnarounds, which applies to normal life. maybe an example where quitting is actually the strong [00:38:00] move 

Luis: Yeah Oh, boy, that's such a great profound question.

you know, because you'd like to think that that all translates to everyday life, right? I just find that, you know, when, when there's a storm it's really clear. It's bad weather, it's below zero, we're not going anywhere. Very cut and dry. to your point earlier, when it gets more nuanced and complex, y- I think if you can adopt- The one lesson for me is I try to adopt the mindset that if, if I pull back or pull away from something, but I can still say I've learned something from this, but I'm not gonna keep pursuing it, then I, I consider, I try to put that in the win column.

'cause I think the, this, aversion to failure, you won't be a, a mountaineer for very long, if you have an aversion to failure. Because a- anybody... If I ever met anybody that said, "I've summited everything I've tried, it's always been a success, it's been rosy [00:39:00] and wonderful, and never had a blister.

Nothing's ever gone wrong," that would be a, an incredibly difficult thing to, to understand. I think the inherent learning for me with stepping away from something is, y- I hear it called failing forward a lot of the time. that there's, if you can at least point to one thing where, yep, learned a little bit more about myself with this,and it, it never ends.

The learning never ends. for me, when I turned around that Everest expedition, I'd never done that before. That was an incredible responsibility. The fallout for me mentally and emotionally was tremendous. It took a long time to work through that, personally. But the wisdom gained from that in helping younger guides as they walk through their apprenticeships and, and their mentorships, and wanting to see them make similar hard calls.

Anybody that thinks that they're strong and fit and is okay with a little risk can push it and can push hard [00:40:00] and see if they can't just break through. I think that's sort of the type A mentality. The real challenge is, and I think the lesson that I try to take away with me is, even if you're all those things but that can still step back, that's the failing forward.

I like to mess with my clients on big trips and say, "If we were 10 feet away from the summit, you knew you could make it. You absolutely knew you could make it. This was not about anybody else on the expedition. Could you turn around and be done?" And so I think it's that journey versus destination question.

Is it in the journey? Is it in the destination? What's the most important part? Oh, and I'd have clients that would say, "Are you cr- There's no way. I've worked years and spent all the... I'm not, there's no... I would never step away from that. I'm gonna dance on top, step on-" On top, if I'm that close, it's a big goal for me.

And I would always question, you know, well, it, well, is that gonna be your biggest learning or just a moment in the, in [00:41:00] sort of the path of learning? And so you have to get philosophical about some of these questions. And then so I think the thing that I try to take away from that is, the magic and beauty that you see on these expeditions somewhat sustain you, but I think the real learning and the real lesson is,can you walk in the middle of diver, in, in diverse discomfort, and still find a way to build a plan and get through it?

Kush: I like it how you maybe turn back the, uh, question or the framework on your clients themselves and ask them to help- Think through those possibilities before you are actually in that vortex of having to decide. I have to ask you this, Lewis, you have been in this game for many decades now, you know- Mm-hmm

from the first time you started guiding in Ecuador all, all the way to now. Do you think that we are making better decisions? Because I recognize that, [00:42:00] you know, from the first time we, when we first went and conquered some... Not conquered, climbed these peaks for the first time to now, there's been just so many changes.

I mean, there have been advancements to technology, but there have also been this rapid progression in access Do you think guiding, do you think we have made this safer? Do you think there are things we are still not doing correctly? 

Luis: Yeah, no, that's a wonderful question. you know, I think, a- and this sort of speaks to my own personal progression through different evolutions of work,all the countries where expeditions operate in, it's a relationship with government talking about the utilization of natural resources.

Because these big mountains are an economic engine for the region, but they're also a natural resource to protect. and they also do more than just give climbers a fun experience. They also provide water to feed crops down valley. there's a whole ecosystem o- of infrastructure that relies [00:43:00] on a lot of these, these resources.

And I think, for me, my own personal journey of getting more involved in government policy, seeing that as a backbone of the industry and really needing to understand if you're going to engage at this level, it's not about going to the ministry and getting your permit, it's also about understanding what these countries are doing to protect the resource and the communities that rely on the resource.

So I think we've gotten better at that. I think there's a larger awareness because the clients that are out there now, are a little bit more discerning, than... And there, there's more options, frankly. There are more companies out there, there are more guides, there are more people that you can go with.

I think that's gotten better. I think what still needs pressure is on the government response to some of these things. You know, you're hearing about new legislation coming out of Nepal to limit the amount of climbers and as the articles say, influencers on big mountains in the Himalayas because they see the impact that this is causing.

and I think any [00:44:00] company worthwhile still needs to vet the clients that are coming in to make sure that they're experienced. But if you're a new company, you'll take anybody that can write a check, and I think every c- every company is guilty of that. So I think the really interesting business case for the entire ecosystem is really understanding, what does a company do to pressure the local government to take good care of local staff and some of these environmental and economic resource impact issues that are around some of these resources I think that's getting better.

I think the pieces that are getting more challenging is, you know, there's a European company that is now going to be doing commercial trips on Everest with xenon gas, which it's this physio- Have you heard about this? It's this physiological response where they're saying you're gonna be able to climb Everest in a week.

Kush: Right. 

Luis: Door to door. Leave London on Monday, and you're walking back home into your home on Sunday or the next Monday. 

Kush: Yeah. Now, obviously there's- I, I remember, uh, [00:45:00] you know, that team from the UK who went and did that. Last year. And I remember it made a lot of headlines, very controversial. I... Yeah, I'm gobsmacked.

I did not realize that somebody h- had not taken this gauntlet and started to commercialize it. I mean, I guess that's what capitalism gives you. 

Luis: Well, they test- they tested it last year. It worked, so now they're gonna do it commercially this year. And so I think this is that taking the risk and seeing if the rapid ascent can actually go to that level.

Now, obviously they have a disclaimer, like, if you get sick or there's weather, trip's off, so you spend a lot of money and time. So I think, you know, the, the interesting thing about guiding industries, which is why some of these larger guiding accreditations, l- like the mountain guide associations in Europe and South America and the United States, and some in Asia, really try to standardize some of these approaches.

"No, you can't do xenon gas. No, you can't go to this mountain and not understand environmental impact." there are [00:46:00] places where we're getting better, and then there are places where I think we still need to improve. and from my vantage point, the improving has to do with guides recognizing their economic power in talking to government.

Everest is a multimillion-dollar proposition for the Nepali government every single year. Um, my argument has always been that if guide services would get together and ask for really what they wanna see and what they wanna do with a collective voice, they could move that government in the direction that would be, beneficial to everybody.

But to get everybody to sit down at the same table and agree, still hasn't happened yet. 

Kush: What's your stance, Louis, on the, on being able to guide with xenon assistance versus not? 

Luis: Yeah. You know, the, the rapid ascent question that a lot of companies I think are, are really proposing, 'cause there's other companies out there that use the hyperbaric tents that have people training with those tents so you can jump to base camp really [00:47:00] quick, and then you can start working on the mountain.

So there's varying versions of instead of a three-month expedition, which was kind of the old Everest expeditions, well now there's a month and a half, and now there's gonna be a 10-day xenon gas trip. So it's sort of these, this sliding scale. I think this is a part of understanding what sport and risk look like in an era of instant satisfaction on social media,and Instagram.

I think,it... My, my stance on it is I like the pushing of the boundaries and trying to understand physiologically what's going on with playing the altitude game. I think the margin for safety gets slimmer and slimmer when you do some of these, these things. I know the guide services that do the rapid ascents.

Um, they're former colleagues. I, I respect them greatly i- in the things that they try to do. but I do think you, you play a much more narrow risk [00:48:00] game with that. And again, as somebody that sort of prides themself on being incredibly conservative, that's, uh, that, that's- Mm ... you, you have to make a personal choice with those things.

Kush: Right on. Louis, I read your book Higher Ground over- Yeah ... the last month, and I have to say that I loved the book. I'll also be honest and, and say that I did not know enough about you before I picked up this book. And I was surprised in the best way possible. You have this really interesting story arc.

From where you started as a kid with respiratory challenges to a high mountain guide, having done some incredible things in the Alpine, to the work you're doing today I'm curious, [00:49:00] and I'm sure when you wrote this book, the process probably opened up all these periods of, um, introspection. When you look back, does it surprise you on how far you've come a- and what you've accomplished?

Luis: Ooh Yeah, you know, it's interesting. the, the, writing Higher Ground was definitely, It started a really long time ago with my co-author, Frederick Reimer. when I was, when I made the choice to step away from guiding full time and started working more in government and government policy for outdoor recreation, here in the United States.

You know, policy and government is a very different world to guiding. But Frederick, who has been a writer for Outside Magazine for a really long time, and a friend of mine from guiding with Outward Bound 20 years ago,as you do when you call your best friends when you have some free time and you just ask simple questions, "How's it going?

How are you? What's going [00:50:00] on?" Frederick as a writer, and as a really smart writer said, "You know, Luis, if it's okay with you, I'm gonna just start recording our conversations, 'cause you're talking about big industry changing stuff that, we're just, I can't put into an article. And I don't know if we're ever gonna use it, but I'm just gonna start recording.

Our, you just, we're gonna talk." and I trust him enough as a good friend to do that. And so for a couple years there, whenever we would chat, Frederick would just record it. And when the pandemic, hit and the world started shutting down, we were having a conversation and he knew of my, my interest in putting this down on paper because as our, as the industry, as the outdoor recreation industry and economy emerges globally, my argument was always there's not one place where you can really talk about the voice and the efforts and really what we're trying to do as this trillion, multi-trillion dollar economy globally.

and finally Frederick said, "Well,how [00:51:00] about we put it down in a book? How about we actually start this process of putting it together?" And so I credit him a lot for being the keeper of my history and my voice, knowing me for 20 years. And so when we would do an outline of a chapter and really talk about the policy side and the industry side, and then I would layer in personal stories, a lot of that back and forth to your question really brought up these amazing memories.

And at the end of the day, what I told him, and I'll tell you, is that even if two people bought the book and it never did anything and it just, it's sort of a reference for academics or, people that write policy, at the end of the day I've, I tried to put down on paper to explain to my daughter what it is that I tried to do with my life, and a significant portion of my life.

So my greatest joy is knowing that someday she'll be old enough to read it and sort of understand what her father has tried to do with his time. And so I encourage everybody out there that if you have children, to be able to put down in a [00:52:00] journal the things that you've tried to do, whether it's a book or otherwise, is just an always an impactful exercise for passing some of those lessons to the next generation And so what I've found in the book now being out there, Higher Ground being out there in the universe, is people really do wanna understand how to define this economy and how to define this culture.

We've always been seen, you know, you described it yourself when we started. I've spent a lot of time in my van with a hang board and my therapeutic ban- bands and my yoga mat, and, we see these sprinter vans all over the world where people do these things, and travel from climbing area to climbing area, skiing, biking, boating, hunting, fishing, doing all of these different things.

And we've always been seen as the outliers to culture and community and society. But when you start to add up the dollars that these equi- the pieces of equipment cost, the things that we try to impact in our communities through conservation [00:53:00] efforts or environmental efforts, we have deep and lasting impact on the places that we live and the communities where we play.

And so trying to sort of elevate our status within that conversation, um, in the United States the best example I'll give you is the outdoor industry is worth more than the, auto industry and the pharmaceutical industry combined. Now think about their political gravity as economies and think about us, and how we show up in the halls of power to ask for and take care of what we want.

And I think this conversation,you mentioned the first people to climb Everest. when Tenzing Norgay, started the mountaineering center in Darjeeling and really started talking about the ethics of the mountains in India, and really tried to pull culture and community into understanding that it's not just a place to go recreate, it's a resource.

It's a, it's a valuable commodity. We have all these people throughout history that have tried [00:54:00] to connect the dots on what this all means, and so Higher Ground for me in writing the book was really just an effort to do that for our current day. 

Kush: That honestly, like I love books about climbing, being a climber myself.

I love anything to do with the mountains. But to me, there was this, uh, this beautiful arc in this book about how that transition happens in your life from being somebody who recreates to somebody who helps others recreate, and now taking that forward to helping open up these vistas at scale. And I learned so much about how these alliances happen and what happens behind...

Like we all love our public lands, but how does that all come together? So- Is there maybe one or two things that you want to leave listeners with [00:55:00] on what is it about This You know, these, these groups that come together, these forces that allow us to conserve. What is it that helps make these public lands available, and what are these forces that they can contribute to?

Luis: Yeah. That's a great question. So for the United States, you know, the conversation about public lands, you talk to a Canadian, a Canadian will say, "Well, that's embedded in our culture with First Nations. Of course these lands are open to everyone because they w- don't belong to us, they belong to the first tribes that were here."

So it's kind of an understood thing. And for some reason in the United States, this conversation about public versus private land is this ongoing political dialogue of who this could or should belong to. Should it belong to the federal government? Should it belong to the state government? What are the competing interests, whether it is energy development versus recreation?

and then to layer on top of that,the [00:56:00] climate concerns of if it's a low water year, does that increase the risk of wildfire if we don't take care of these natural forests in the hopes that they w- if it a, the lightning strike happens, it's not gonna burn the whole thing. so there are these three sort of levels that you need to think about.

And what I tell people all the time is, find the NGO that speaks the most to you in that space. So for you, if it's about recreation, there is a nonprofit that focuses on mountain biking or skiing or climbing. There, there, there are definitely these NGOs out there. like for climbing, it's the Access Fund.

For mountain biking, it's International Mountain Biking Association. For skiing, it's Protect Our Winters. it... Find the one that speaks to you the most and really drill in and drill down. People often think, "Uh, I give them $25 a year. That does nothing." you'd be surprised how much an NGO can do with $25, speaking as someone that's been in the, in the NGO space off and on [00:57:00] my entire life.

it matters. How you show up matters. don't just send the money and never read what they've got going on. Find volunteer opportunities. You know, the, the political voice piece of this is a little different. You know, who we send to Washington, DC to speak about us and for us matters. I talk about this in the book a lot, about starting, um, state level outdoor recreation offices reporting to their governors.

There are now 25 states in the United States that have this office, specifically at the state level. So now you have 25 directors that each represent their states that collectively, when they go to Washington, DC to talk about things that are important, they don't see a political party, they see the interests of this industry.

And so getting involved in that, again, internet's a wonderful place to do a little research and understand does my state have an outdoor industry office? If so, who's the director? If so, what do they do to get together? Do they hold events? Can [00:58:00] I be a part of those events? You know, if you're fundamentally curious about how to get involved, I think there are multiple ways to do it 

Kush: And again, back to what you said, there's so much information out there on the internet on how people can become involved.

I think they just need to pay a bit more attention. this, this conversation is so timely. We are living in this really peculiar time. Yosemite has been my backyard climbing area for a long time, and just this year, Yosemite decided to... the park decided to relax visitor fees, which some people see as a victory, but then I think smarter minds realize that, wait a second, are they now-- what's happening now?

Are they now going to, like, not conserve the park and do things that are important that they should be? So in some ways, this feels like this time of doom and gloom, like we have lost, like a lot of things have happened which cause anxiety [00:59:00] for people who are concerned about conservation, about access. Are there still things out there that should give us hope?

Luis: Yeah, that's a great question. And, I think going back to the era of Teddy Roosevelt in the United States, you know, public lands and national parks were considered America's best idea. And the reason why President Roosevelt said that was when you look at every other country around the world, yes, they may have, big deserts like the UAE or the, you know, the Sahara, places like that.

Yes, they may have historical waterways and smaller parks like in Europe, but when it comes to the, just the sheer amount of open space to roam as an American, and also for the average American to be able to pay a fee and go experience some of those things like the Grand Canyon or Yosemite or some of those other places, it was always considered America's best idea The thing that gives me hope is that if there are still [01:00:00] people continuing to say that if this is truly America's best idea, then it needs to remain high on the list of priorities for protection and preservation, but also equitable access.

So you mentioned the, well, they've dropping the visitor fees and is, how, what's that gonna look like? And then depending on what you believe from the current administration, they've talked about raising international visitor fees. So if you come to visit a national park from a different country, you're gonna spend $100 a person, which seems cost-prohibitive.

And then you've also heard a lot of talk about privatizing the, basically the, the vendors for the parks. and so, "Oh, if there's privatization, then they're gonna turn Yosemite or Grand Teton National Park into Disneyland, and it's gonna be awful and overrun." But what I like to remind people, again, do- knowing the history of some of these things and doing a little research, for instance, Grand Teton National Park has always been a privatized vendor.

Vail Resorts, the ski [01:01:00] company, actually manages that national park. Um, so there, there already has been privatization of vendors for parks, so it can be done in a really thoughtful, non-Disney way. you know, limiting entrance, visitor fees. Uh, Utah, perfect example. They have the big five national parks.

They had timed entrances for m- many, many years. That was sort of a holdover from the pandemic. This year they've decided to get rid of it. I think it's gonna be one year of chaos, basically, that's gonna happen at all the park entrances, to say, "You know what? we're gonna need to think about this differently."

Again, I think the main backbone of peace to have hope is that there's a lot of people out there that care about these things, and the more you raise your voice or embed with an NGO, things do change. You know, the visitor fee experiment for Yosemite, we'll see if it sticks beyond one year. Per, my personal opinion for Utah, I think we're gonna go back [01:02:00] to timed entries to parks because just opening the floodgates, I think they're gonna have serious impact problems this summer, especially with staffing reductions.

So this gets back to my original point of the biggest thing that gives me hope is our growing political voice in this space, and being able to speak to these things and say, "Hey, listen, you're not just messing with a national park or a national monument. You're messing with a trillion-dollar economy in the United States responsible for over five million American jobs.

So if you really want to upset this, then by all means keep making mistakes. If you wanna make sure this is good, pay attention to these things." And there are a lot of people that are working in the halls of power to make sure that that voice is heard 

Kush: Brilliant, Lewis. again, this is something that I learned from your book that All capitalism is not wrong for the environment.

There are ways and, uh, there are ways. [01:03:00] Because I think, I think those of us who really believe in the power of the outdoors sometimes think that, yes, we only see the, the harmful sides, but we don't always see those, those different ways that, uh, yeah, privates, publics, people, these forces have come together, and I think I did not know about the private, concession ship behind Grand Teton.

I think that would also- Yeah ... surprise many people. I think it's a wonderfully run park.

I, again, I love this book and I encourage people to read this book. And yeah, come for the stories that you share from your days as a guide and as a mountaineer and your beginnings as this atypical kid. But then s- yeah, but then take away these, yeah, these biblical lessons in [01:04:00] stewardship and how, yeah, how the book can inspire you to maybe make a difference in the way you think about how you can support the forces behind the activities that we love.

Last part of the, uh, conversation, Louis, I, I call this the ageless section What feels different about this season of life for you?

Luis: Oh, that's a good one. I think what feels different is, I, it's funny 'cause I think as an outdoor athlete, and you probably can agree to this, there's always this question of good or lucky. am I good or was that just luck that let me get through that? Did it- ... was it actually my skillset, or did, did I get a little lucky with getting this done?

Was it, the help of friends on a trip or, you know, whatever it is. And I think this season for me is one of, I, you know, I've said this to other friends before, stepping into your own power and- Mm ... and being comfortable with the fact that, being a [01:05:00] little bit older a- and hopefully a little bit wiser comes with this responsibility of helping to point the way.

You know, I, I say to a lot of folks that I, I try to mentor that my generation's job is to understand the shape of the door, understand where the doorknob is, understand how to turn it, open it, and hold my foot there for you to walk through. And if I'm doing my job well, I'm explaining what this door is so you don't walk straight into another one.

So what meets you on the other side i- is something that will allow you to accelerate at a greater speed than me. And so for this generation in my life,I've slowly understood what that's meant the more I say it out loud is that, holding open this door,it's a lot of lessons learned, a lot of responsibility in not only being humble, but also saying, I, I can actually hold this for you while you walk through- Mm

and learn new lessons that I never could." [01:06:00] so for me, I, I think that's really what this time in my life means is being able to understand how to hold the weight of the current moment so who comes next, can benefit from the freedom of understanding what the next question should be. 

Kush: Sure. that's thought-provoking.

What is something that you have had to let go of?

Luis: Ooh, boy. You know, once an outdoor athlete, always an outdoor athlete. FOMO of expeditions that friends are on. I mean, I have a friend, a British friend, Kenton Cool. We started guiding on Everest together. He's an amazing guy. You'd love to have him on the podcast. he's going for his 20th ascent of Mount Everest this year, and as a Westerner, especially a European, he's up there in the amount of peop- times that, that people, non-Sherpa ascents.

And, you know, humbly only have summited Everest six times for me. For him, watching his 20th ascent as someone in his 50s with a [01:07:00] family that has managed to figure out how to put it, put it all together. he still send, sends satellite phone messages from expeditions like, "Hey, buddy. Wish you were here."

And so the thing I've had to let go of is allowing myself to be happy for the moment in life I'm in right now, that was, you know, big, long expeditions were a very large part of my life. and now my responsibility is different. And so still getting in to plug into that a little bit every single year, but not having it be the cornerstone.

I've had to let go of FOMO, that fear of missing out and knowing that, uh, you know, and, and I would just tell any of your younger listeners, that never goes away. You'll always, if you're motivated- ... if you're a motivated outdoor athlete, FOMO never goes away. You just have to find a way to make peace with it and find your own path.

Kush: Yeah. Maybe, maybe FOMO is... I mean, the fact that you know, you have FOMO means you have a pulse, so it's not altogether a terrible thing. 

Luis: That's good. I like that. Yeah. It's true. 

Kush: Lewis-

How has your relationship with success [01:08:00] changed? 

Luis: You know, it's funny, your comments about the book, comments about Higher Ground, you know, I've had a lot of people reflect back to me that I've known for a long time. you know, the, the start of the sentence is always, "I had no idea. I had no idea you did dun, dun, dun."

And I think being a professional athlete and Himalayan climber for years, the way I always entered a room was, "Oh, this is Luis. He's the guy that's climbed Everest six times, took a blind person up Everest." So y- everybody's sort of led with the introduction of these things. And entering a stage in my life where I have people in my life that have zero idea what I've done in the Himalayas.

Ze- I mean, they, they've, "Oh, you're a climber. You like to climb. You live in Colorado." not leading with that resume. And I think my definition of success and how that's changed over the years is allowing success to be defined by who you are as a whole person, not just one piece. and that, it was a bizarre transition for me to be introduced by [01:09:00] someone to say, "This is Luis who worked on this project," and climbing was never mentioned 

Kush: That's so interesting.

Yeah. People who know us from different chapters in our lives know maybe parts of our lives, not the whole. Lewis, if you could give your 30-year-old self one line of advice

Luis: Oh, boy. That took, I'm take- I'm eating up air time, I know. in thinking about this, that's a very thought-provoking question. I, I, I think what I would tell them is that, and you see this reflected in social media sometimes, like if your little kid version of you could see you now, tell them that you're gonna do, A, B, C, D.

to not worry so much. I think worry is a big part of who we are as humans. Am I good enough? Am I smart enough? Is this the right thing to do? Am I going in the right [01:10:00] way? Do I need to be more, do more, see more? being more compassionate with yourself in the middle of it. 'cause even now I reflect back on some of the experiences I had, and in the moment, moving so far hard and so fast and being pointed towards so many specific goal-oriented things, I would tell myself to relax a little bit more.

Don't worry. It's gonna be okay. 

Kush: Okay. Yeah, that's a good, uh, midlife reflection. Lewis, for listeners in their, you know, who are kind of about our age, 40s, 50s, what's a smart turnaround they might be avoiding right now? 

Luis: I mean, I tell people all the time with respect to taking care of yourself, if it hurts, listen to it.

There is no pushing through the pain at our age. that's not an okay thing. Mm. And that [01:11:00] understanding recovery and pain in a different way, 'cause you're wired to suffer. High altitude mountaineers are wired to suffer. You're, everything hurts, everything's falling apart, you still have to keep going.

L- at, at our age, paying attention to the pain is the most valuable lesson as an athlete. 

Kush: Lewis, what does being ageless mean to you?

Luis: Being ageless means to me, understanding the art of humility. Now it, for me it's about helping other ri- others rise before helping myself rise. and I find that the more I, the more I do it, the more rewarding it is 

Kush: Super. Last question, fun question What might have been the best use of $100 in recent memory?

Luis: Boy, the best use of $100 

Kush: And the [01:12:00] amount is, just it can be around that 

Luis: Oh, anywhere within that, yeah. 

Kush: Yeah 

Luis: Boy, you know what? I think I, I'm a big sucker for street art and finding local artists and little things, you know, little curios. and there is, believe it or not, a local artist on the island of Kauai in Hawaii.

There's a tunnel of old, eucalyptus trees heading towards this beach called Poipu Beach, and everybody knows, like, when you're going through this tunnel. It's the farthest island, the second to farthest island on the, the Hawaiian chain, heading towards the farthest beach away. So you're basically pointing towards open ocean, and the next thing you hit's gonna be Japan.

And there's a tree tunnel, that you go through that everybody knows that when you're heading towards Poipu Beach and you go through the tree tunnel, you're close. And for me, I found a local artist that did this amazing little painting of the tree tunnel. and it was the best 65 bucks I've spent in quite a while.[01:13:00] 

Kush: Oh, love it. Wow. No, that's such a good use of... Yeah, using money for a very beautiful experience. Lewis, that's all I have for today. Thank you so much for your very thoughtful answers. A great conversation. 

Luis: Thank you so much for having me. This was a wonderful conversation. I really enjoy your podcast.