Your Current Body Won’t Carry You Forever — Change Before You Get Stuck | Rob Lea

Ageless Athlete Recording - Rob Lea
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Rob Lea: [00:00:00] This morning I had leftover green chili with eggs, Mexican from a really great spot in Salt Lake called Red Iguana. So it was a, a leftover, but it's a great meal and it worked for this morning. 

Kush: That sounds, distinctly different than being handed liquid calories while floating between, countries from a boat?

Rob Lea: That, that's right, yeah. Obviously on these swims our diets are quite unique, and my nutrition evolved from my first real big open water swim, the English Channel, until this last one, the Tsugaru Strait. But by the last one, Tsugaru Strait, I did completely liquid feeds on that one. Glad to have regular meals on the table these days.

Kush: Rob, can I say congratulations? I think it's been a month precisely. On [00:01:00] June 30th, you finished the final swim Have you finally caught up on sleep? 

Rob Lea: Yeah, exactly a month to the day, which is wild to think about. Seems like I was just in Japan there.

I think I've mostly caught up on sleep, and every time I think I'm recovered from the swim I'll go out and do a workout and, I think there's still some residual fatigue in there. But mostly I feel caught up. And I guess I should add that my regular workout that I, felt this residual fatigue on, my wife said, "Oh, let's go for this hike, and let's go climb one of the, the highest mountains in Utah," the fourth highest mountain in Utah.

It ended up being 24 miles multiple river crossings, 70% off trail starting at 3:00 in the morning type of thing. So- ... this wasn't like just a, a little jog around the block or whatever. So that probably had a little something to do with it. But I am feeling like [00:02:00] mostly back to myself.

I recover from these swims pretty quickly, generally speaking. But I think there's always some residual fatigue in there and catching up on sleep and whatnot. 

Kush (2): I can't even imagine because your body is, getting wrecked in so many ways, and you're getting pushed to these limits. Rob, just to give people a scale of this, you completed the highest summit on every continent, and then seven of the, the most iconic open water swims.

I've had people on the show who have done one or the other. So what makes combining these challenges so unusual? 

Rob Lea: Yeah, they're just obviously very different sports in the sense that training for each discipline, whether you're climbing mountains or swimming oceans y- you have very different body [00:03:00] types.

Being an open water swimmer in these cold waters I've had to put on a lot of weight, and that's not necessarily something you wanna do when you're gonna go climb a couple thousand feet up a mountain. I think different body types and is probably the main thing. I've always been a multi-splat- sport athlete my entire life, and I actually really like that.

I like the balance of different sports and it it... When I take a break from one sport and jump into another, when I go back to that original sport, I have that much more fun and enjoyment and love for that sport. So I've always enjoyed bouncing around to different sports. Obviously, these challenges, you have to buckle down and, train pretty specifically for them.

But I think that's the unique part, is there's not a whole lot of people climbing these big mountains and also jumping in these cold oceans. 

Kush: Now you're the first person to complete that combination. Has that sentence started to feel real yet? [00:04:00] 

Rob Lea: Yeah, I guess so. It's something that I'm certainly proud of.

I'm not I guess what I would say is that I'm the same person as I was before I finished this last swim. I've got this accomplishment under my belt, and I'm really proud of it, and it spent I spent years and years, literally decades doing this before I even really knew what the, the final goal was and really a lifetime training for it.

But as far as it sinking in yeah it's, there and I've gotten some really nice accolades and I've I really appreciate that and people reaching out. But at the end of the day I'm the same person and I'm just gonna keep chugging along and right now I'm taking a bit of a break.

I thought about swimming today, being a month out from my last swim. I haven't swum yet, but I think it's, coming soon. I'm, almost ready for it. When, I do these swims, I have to convince myself, "Hey when I'm doing it if there's any time that I'm [00:05:00] struggling or I'm like, 'Why am I doing this?'"

I just say, "Look, if I can get to the end of this swim, I don't have to take another stroke in my life if I don't want to, but I gotta finish this swim." So I kinda use that as motivation. But e- eventually I love water and I love swimming, and I'll get back in the water. 

Kush: Rob, I want you to take us back to that moment a month ago When you finally reached land in Japan, what did you feel first?

Rob Lea: I think probably mostly relief. this has been a long time coming. It's it's been a lot of training. And there's, always doubt in there. I'm, a pretty confident person, and I think that has helped me along the way. But you never know if these things are gonna work out.

This was actually the second time I tried the Tsugaru Strait. I tried it in 2023. And the... We can get into that. There, there's some funky rules that year that made it virtually impossible or maybe really [00:06:00] impossible to complete the swim that year. But also you just never know what's gonna happen, whether it's with your own body, your own mind, the weather, the currents, and I didn't...

As much as I can go in prepared as much as possible, I wasn't 100% sure I was gonna get it. You never are. And so I think that there's a sense of relief to get it done. These 12-hour swims are quite taxing, and just to, touch sand that first time with your hand, a lot of times, I...

Sometimes I can see the sand, and sometimes I can't, but I, get a handful of sand, and I go, "Oh, gosh. Okay." And then I usually go to stand up and immediately fall over because I've been horizontal for, you know- Wow ... something like 12 hours, and so your equilibrium is a little bit off.

But I think it was mostly relief, and then y- there's certainly all the emotions, and I think that's why I do these sorts of things, is because you feel the highest of the highs and the lowest of the lows. So I'm feeling the excitement. I'm feeling gratitude towards my team [00:07:00] for helping me get there.

Th- this is a, checklist that has lasted years and years. There's probably a little sadness that checklist is gone as well. Every emotion, and then and then the cold sets in as well because the end of my last swim was quite chilly. Colder than I thought.

I knew it would be a little chilly getting to the coast of Hokkaido, but it was quite cold. 

Kush: So many things to unpack there. Because this last swim is the most recent and maybe the most vivid in memory can you, take us back into a moment in this last swim, Rob? Yes, this was your second time attempting it, and I'm guessing that added this whole other layer of complexity, maybe maybe ferocity.

What might have been the darkest moment after you had started the swim that made you think that, "Wait a second, I have started this swim a second [00:08:00] time now, and this is the final swim"? 

Rob Lea: Yeah. I don't know that I would call it super dark because I think to do these swims you have to stay in a relatively positive mindset.

Now you're, gonna have roller coasters and, every swim is a roller coaster. All the climbs are roller, coasters in one sense or another as well, and you're always gonna have down moments. I think back to my Ironman days, I think that they say somewhere between four and six hours generally speaking to you when you're doing these events, you're gonna have a lull.

You're gonna not feel good, whether it's just mentally or something that's going on in your body, and you're gonna have those, those kind of feelings. And I just have to work through those a little bit. But I, If there was one or two moments or kind of a period of time I, would say on this swim, it everything was going great.

I kind of joke it was, everything was going swimmingly. I, I jumped in first h- half hour, I'm going, "Man, my... The [00:09:00] time is just flying by." I even said to my crew at three hours, "Wow, that was a, a snappy little three-hour swim so far." I, felt really good, and that, that's pretty normal in these swims.

The first couple hours feel pretty good. About five hours in, five and a half hours in, I could see off of the the front of the boat, the stern of the boat, or the the bow of the boat I could see Hokkaido. And it wasn't just that I could see it. Sometimes you could see where you're, going off in the distance, but it, w- it looked pretty close to me, and I could literally see the trees starting to appear and I could make them out and I'm going, "Hey, I'm quite close here."

I expected the swim to be in the 10 to 15-hour range. But I know that in the right conditions it can be a, a quicker swim than that. And I thought, "Man maybe this is gonna be a quicker swim than I thought." and then it was probably at hour f- five and a half or six, 'cause I stop every half hour for my, feeding with my crew there, and they said, "Hey, the current's picked up.

We're gonna push the [00:10:00] next one from 30 minutes to 45 so that you can keep swimming and try to push through this current." I didn't know some of the background on the boat that pretty soon thereafter they realized that I wasn't gonna make this cape that we were aiming for. You always aim for obviously the closest landmark.

And but I, knew I was in the current. And instead of having I was... I think at that point I was about five to six kilometers from Hokkaido, and in normal let's say lake-like conditions I could swim that in hour and a half, two hours, something like that. Probably two hours.

But, the swim from there ended up being another six and a half hours, and that was because the current started taking me from west to east. And as I was slowly making it through this very strong current, it was just taking me further from the coast rather than closer because the- the cape went- went away from where I was on- on that eastward [00:11:00] trajectory.

As I realized, "Hey this is, taking me, and also if I don't swim hard, it's just literally gonna take me all the way east to the Pacific Ocean." there's a moment in there that you go okay this is gonna be a lot longer and harder and colder than I thought it was gonna be a half-hour ago."

But all we can do is put one one arm in front of the other and keep swimming 

Kush: 



Rob Lea: Did the fact that this was indeed the final part of the final event, quote, unquote, before you finished this m- this mega saga that started a while ago did that have any bearing to your emotions?

Yeah, I don't think it did, honestly. Y- because w- in, in any swim and in the project in general, you have to put this into chunks and really just concentrate on what's in front of you I, guess it, I [00:12:00] don't even remember it going through my mind that this was the last of the, the double seven as I approached Hokkaido, if I'm totally honest.

It was more- just usually there's a point where, yeah, maybe I'm nine hours in and I go, "Oh my gosh this is, not going like I want it to go right now," and you're trying to convince yourself to stay positive and get in a better head space. And part of that is just to say, "I'm not- I don't wanna come back and have to do this again."

If I can swim another two, three, four... I had to plan for up to 15 hours because we could only swim during the daylight hours there. So I knew I could- I was only gonna swim up to 15 hours. But I... Once you're something like six, seven, eight, nine hours in and you're h- you're going through that roller coaster, all I can think about is I just gotta keep going because I don't wanna have to come halfway around the world to start this over again and do that last six or eight or nine hours over again.

I'm, it's, again, it's just tricking myself into thinking [00:13:00] the, the better option here is just to keep going even if it doesn't feel good all the time. 

Kush: Some deep lessons there for the rest of us. Rob, I want to zoom out, and I would love to hear on how did this huge project even begin? 

Rob Lea: Sure.

It, really goes all the way back, right? I've been an athlete my whole life. I was a swimmer through high school and college. I got into triathlon a little bit in high school. I did my first Ironman when I was 19 years old. I got into triathlons pretty heavy when I was w- I think that was about 2009 to 2012 or so.

In 2012, I was the Half Ironman World Champion in my age group, so I was I was really heavy into the triathlon world. Some injuries got me out of that, and then I met my wife. We started doing more stuff in the [00:14:00] mountains. I'd already climbed some of the world's biggest mountains when I met her.

I'd climbed Denali and Aconcagua. But my wife Carolyn Gleich, is a professional ski mountaineer, and so we really started doing a lot more stuff in the mountains, and I really enjoyed that. I w- that was the time in my life I wasn't doing as much swimming, to be honest. Fast-forward a little bit to 2017, and w- in the mountains I was having some issues with my ankle.

I've broken the end of my fibula off twice, and so I've got a really loose ankle, and when I was running through the mountains I was getting a kind of a pinch. I don't know a better way to describe it, but it was a, a, par- a pi- a painful It, ended up, it was bone on bone. So I had these bone spurs.

So I went to the doctor and I kinda knew what he was gonna say, but I, sat down, I said "Do we need surgery or what do we need to do here?" And he confirmed that I needed surgery on my ankle to reattach ligaments and shave these bone spurs and get microfracture surgery. [00:15:00] And he said "Medically speaking, you shouldn't ever run again in your life.

This is just not good for y- you and your body." but sitting there I've, had a lot of injuries over my life. I think I've broken, I think 19 bones is my count at the moment. Lots of stitches and all this kind of stuff. And Wow. I, n- yeah I've been hard on my body. But I knew I needed something to train for.

I needed... When in PT, I ne- knew I needed a goal to, strive for. And literally sitting on the doctor's table there, I had thought, "I'm gonna s- try to swim the English Channel." But that was... I didn't really know much about the English Channel. I'd done some open water swimming in triathlon, but not open water swimming across from one country to another.

So I started researching it, and when I got home, and I found some blogs online that people debated what was harder, climbing Everest or swimming the English Channel. And I thought I wonder if anyone's actually done that to to, compare the two." And turned out that there were.

There were nine people who had done it. It's called the [00:16:00] Peak and Pond Challenge. But people had always separated the two challenges by usually a couple of years or more. Five years, 10 years. And I thought really to compare them, I think you need to put them together closer." So I decided I was gonna try to climb Everest and swim the English Channel within a calendar year.

And then I thought I'm a triathlete and maybe if the Everest is my new run because I'm not supposed to be running and then I've got my swim. I need a bike ride." And so I decided, I came up with this ultimate world triathlon that I did in 2019, 

Kush: Let me pause you- Yeah ... for a quick moment here.

Sure. So hang on. So you you underwent this major procedure on your ankle. 

And your surgeon said that you should not ever run again. I actually just had ankle surgery myself, coincidentally. I, was given the choice between getting a part of my bone removed- 

Versus getting a fusion done.[00:17:00] 

Rob Lea: Yeah. 

Kush: And I chose the less invasive one, hoping that this will get me back to full function. 

Rob Lea: Yeah. 

Kush: The, the fusion one would have limited certain things. So I'm curious going into this surgery, what limitations did they give you specifically that, "Hey, Rob, you will not be able to do these couple of things, and then you will have to come up with some other ways to find joy"?

Rob Lea: Yeah he, told me on that initial visit that medically speaking, it wasn't a good idea. I shouldn't be running, and I think that was just that I had literally no ligaments attached in my right ankle, and I was bone on bone, all these things. But they never really gave me a whole lot to say "You're never gonna do this again."

I I run these days. I don't run as much. And I, I- it's I had an old coach with workouts and kind of efforts that would say, "You've only got so many matches in your match [00:18:00] box, and be careful when you pull one out and strike it." And I know every time I go out and go for a run I'm, putting some undue pressure on on particularly my ankle or both my ankles.

I'm probably gonna have to have that same surgery on my other ankle at some point. So i- they never really said, "You can't do this stuff," and I probably wouldn't have listened, and I obviously haven't listened to the, their advice about running. So I think you're gonna be right back at it one of these days and just take some time and effort and ease into it and obviously listen to your body.

But My greatest athletic accomplishments, I think, have come after that surgery. I, I usually use these as kind of stepping stones, and usually your body needs some rest and recovery and PT. And then it, can springboard you into something great. 

Kush: I love it. Springboard into something great is indeed correct.

So you spoke about that point where [00:19:00] the first part of this this big project maybe begin to crystallize in your head. When did that go from that initial big goal to this other massive thing that you've just completed? 

Rob Lea: Yeah, so in 2019, I did complete the ultimate world triathlon. I climbed Everest 47 days later.

I swam the English Channel, and something like two months later, I started my bike ride. In 39 days, I rode across the country. Actually, I got married in between the swim and the bike as well. So it all ended up being within a six-month period. And I thought to myself at that time I was crazy, but then COVID hit, right?

And I thought, "Oh my gosh, I'm glad that I went for it." And during COVID, as we were all trying to figure out what to do with our lives the idea started brewing about maybe doing another one of these swims. And so I did Catalina in 2021. [00:20:00] And I think it was right about that time that I just got the idea that I've, had a c- I've done a couple of these climbs and a couple of these swims, and maybe I could be the first to do both of them.

And so I started slowly picking away at them. And it was about three years ago or so that my wife finally kinda turned to me and said "You need to put all of these on the calendar. You need to book them." part of it is some of these swims, you have to wait years and years. I think I was on the waiting list for the Strait of Gibraltar for five years.

So she said, "You need to put all of these on the list. I don't wanna spend the rest of our lives doing this project of yours." And so I, started booking them, and I was able to, knock off quite a few of the, the swims and the climbs here in the last really two years. Even the last year, I-- in the last year, I did three of the swims.

She really encouraged me to get after it, and I'm glad I did. 

Kush: Rob, I have to ask this fun question. You mentioned you got married in between those two big events. [00:21:00] What did you guys do for your honeymoon? 

Rob Lea: I'm laughing here because my wife is still asking me for a, a honeymoon. I always, joke that that the bike ride that I did was our honeymoon.

And she says, "Absolutely not." I I would like to say that our, we live our lives like like we're on a honeymoon, I don't know, like 10 times a year. We go, we travel quite a bit, and we travel all around the world. But I don't know that we've actually had something that we called a honeymoon, and most of the time we're traveling the world, we're going out on some adventure where we're trying something really hard and putting ourselves in a big deficit.

So it- it's probably time, my seventh year, seven seventh anniversary is coming up here in about 10 days, actually. So maybe I should think about planning a honeymoon. 

Kush: Maybe not a conventional type of post-wedding getaway, but you guys [00:22:00] certainly have had some intense experiences together.

This project, Rob, like doing this double seven- had somebody ever attempted or are the people actually trying it? Like I, I'm just wondering like how does that even get conceived? 

Rob Lea: Yeah, so I, honestly didn't think anybody else was trying it for a long time. I thought that's why I'm just gonna start picking away at this and, see how it goes."

I think it was maybe about... Let's see, it was on... When I was in New Zealand, so I think that was 2023, if I don't- if I remember correctly, about three years ago that I was made aware of Bogusław. He's a Polish gentleman, and he... I, found out that he was trying to do the same thing. It didn't really change the mindset all that much.

He had a couple of swims left going into last fall, but then he actually finished the Molokai swim, which is known to be one of the hardest swims. [00:23:00] And then he also had the North Channel swim. Both of those swims he had attempted twice and I had a couple of swims and climbs left, and I was just picking them away.

But as I told you, my wife had told me, "Get everything on the calendar." After I s- finished the Strait of Gibraltar and I, saw that he had finished his Molokai swim, I applied for the Japan swim. And I literally made the application deadline by a couple of days, and part of the reason that was important is if I'm able to...

If I had six swims done they're much likely- much more likely to take you in the Japan Federation. I think they only took something like, I think, maybe 16 swimmers this year or something like that. you ha- you have to show that you're ready for the swim and they generally take people that have done five or hopefully six swims.

So I got on that- 

Kush: I'm guessing like these swims need to be certified in a certain- Yeah ... way, [00:24:00] right? By the Federation. That's right, yeah. Otherwise, you can- Yeah ... you can, you can't be just some random person who does it, and then it will not be recognized. 

Rob Lea: You could certainly go swim one of these, but if you wanna be ratified, you're gonna be ratified by the local federation, and then they're gonna ratify you with the, the world swim open water swim federation as well.

So I was going through this federation. It's really hard to find people to take you across that understand the currents and swimming and all this stuff as well. But to answer your... This is a long way of answering your question, and I'm glad that my wife told me to get on these swims and climbs.

Bogusław finished the Seven in Seven project about, I think it's nine days after I did. So I was the first to finish the Double Seven project but now there's two of us. And I after I've posted about it, I think there's a couple other folks out there that might be looking at it as a long-term goal.

So there, I think there will be others, but there are two of us that have completed it now. 

Kush: One thing I wanted to ask about just going back to that the whole ankle [00:25:00] reconstruction, right? It's a pretty big deal and a lot of us, we reach a certain point where the body catches up and maybe some dreams or some, some goals which- may no longer be possible the same way.

So was there some kind of a reckoning that you went through, Rob, where you had been this obviously very focused athlete, but then maybe some goals you might have had were suddenly no longer as feasible and you had to shift focus? 

Rob Lea: You certainly have to shift your focus, but I'd been through this dog and pony show before.

I've... Like I said, I've had a ton of injuries throughout my life. I've I had all these broken bones and a couple of surgeries and whatnot. So I'm just amazed by the human body and how resilient it is. If I'm honest, I'm probably a little bit worried how I'm gonna feel in another 10, 20 years and how that's gonna go.

But we're just gonna approach that and, figure it out when we get there. But [00:26:00] when I had the ankle surgery I just started doing my rehab. I actually went to... There's a a place called, the National Ability Center, and they help folks that have some kinda physical or some kinda disability get into sport.

So that might be someone who's paralyzed. They help them ski or get on a s- handcycle or something like that. And so when I had my ankle surgery I actually was able to rent a handcycle from them for the summer, and I started handcycling. So you, adapt and you figure out what works for you.

And I I'm I've, been an athlete my whole life and I'll be an athlete my whole life. So I think the last day that I had the handcycle after two months of having this handcycle, I did my first century on a handcycle. So- Whoa ... there's always a challenge out there and I I'm always one to go after the challenge.

Kush: I find it remarkable because I, as a climber, I have certain goals, but the idea [00:27:00] of just going beyond them. For example, I was hobbling around with crutches for a little bit after my ankle surgery but I never even thought of maybe, "Should I be looking up some sort of a event where, for people with crutches?"

Yeah what, is it about you, Rob, that you think about or look up or come up with these ideas that are frankly out of imagination for a lot of us? 

Rob Lea: Yeah, I don't know. I, grew up here in Park City Park City, Utah, and when I, grew up it was a pretty small town. It's still small, but when we grew up, there wasn't much to do other than be outside.

So I've just been someone who's always wanting to be outside and doing athletic things. When I was just a little guy my, my folks moved from Southern California and I think that my dad was a surfer. They got my brother I have an older brother who's two years older, two and a half years older, they got him into swimming really early on.

There was a local community pool [00:28:00] about a quarter mile from our house. And so I think you had to be five years old to be on the swim team. And I- Convinced them and tried out, and they let me be on the swim team when I was four years old. And I was in all these other sports as well, in soccer and flagput- football, and then a, a lot of non-team sports as well w- as far as mountain biking stuff.

Maybe not when I was four years old, but I was, starting to do all those sort- sorts of things. I think when I was, like, six or seven my parents told me that I needed to quit one sport because I was just in every sport imaginable. So I, quit sp- soccer 'cause I'm not all that coordinated, if you can believe it.

I'm really good at going one direction for a long time, so these swims and bikes and runs and things like that I can keep going. But I'm al- not all that coordinated, and I've never thought of myself in, as... In, in it sounds funny, but I've never really thought of myself as that athletic.

Because when I think of athletic, I think of doing an athletic move like dunking a basketball. That's [00:29:00] something I'm not good at 

Kush: all. I feel like- Really? You w- you, won the Ironman World Championship. 

Rob Lea: Like- Yeah ... 

Kush: most folks, if they even complete one, that's like a badge of honor they carry on their LinkedIn resume.

Yeah. And you're saying that you didn't even think of yourself as 

Rob Lea: an athlete? Look I, understand nowadays and I've come a long way, but I, just... I... When I think of an athlete, and you're growing up and athletes on TV, you think of the big three sports. And you think of an athletic move, a diving catch or a slam dunk or something like that.

And those are just things that I'm not very good at. I just know that I've got a, a, a good engine and I can keep going. And yes, I... I understand now that I'm, athletic and I'm an athlete, but still not in the sense of some of these athletic moves that, people can do, and I can't.

What's really funny is I used to play softball with a bunch of people. This was, I just... Maybe 15 years ago. And I was this sort of, [00:30:00] as y- a world champion triathlete, and I, would laugh at myself too, but my team would laugh at me running from, to first base.

Because if you saw me sprint, I do not look like an athlete. I struggle in the sprint aspect of it. I have no quick-twitch muscles in my body. I can just keep going for a long time. So yeah I realize I'm an athlete, but it's just a funny dichotomy I guess. 

Kush: I want us to go back into that time where you mentioned that Caroline, your wife urged you to put these things on the calendar, right?

Yeah, what was that conversation like on the dinner table? I can see that, yes there's, this driving force in your house. 

But you have a regular career, right? 

Rob Lea: Yep. 

Kush: And these things require humongous planning, resourcing, execution. [00:31:00] So take us to that moment and, what was that conversation?

What was going through your mind as you were, like, trying to visualize what this would take? 

Rob Lea: Honestly, I was probably just thinking, "Yep you're right. I should put them on the calendar," because she's usually right. I would have never come up with my ultimate world triathlon that I did in 2019, which led to this double seven thing.

I, and I wouldn't have come up with the double seven thing without her. She's a, a huge inspiration and, I... She just dreams really big, and I don't think that I would have come up with these big goals without her. So I owe an immense amount of gratitude to her. She's someone who's somehow made a career out of being a, a backcountry skier, a mountaineer, which is not that easy to do.

And, she's done everything from that to she ran for US Senate two years ago. And that [00:32:00] if that's not dreaming big, I don't know what is. I- in my last swim in Suguru, I actually was thinking to myself when the times were tough, and again, you're always trying to find things to keep you going and get you in a positive headset.

One, one of my things was like, "I would much rather be doing this than running for US Senate." I don't know how she did that, and there's a lot harder things out there. Swimming for 12 hours is not easy, but I, can swim 12 hours rather than devote a year of my life to, to running for Senate.

She's been a huge influence. When she told me to start booking this stuff, I knew she was right, and we just started doing what we could to get them all on the calendar. 

Kush: Caroline certainly is a larger than life inspiration. And since we are on this segue, I have to ask how did you guys meet?

Was it ski slopes, swimming, dating app, or something else entirely? 

Rob Lea: We met on Instagram. Yeah, early days [00:33:00] Instagram. I had I had noticed her at some point, and I think I had asked a friend about her, but she was dating somebody, and so nothing ever happened. And I think even maybe a year or more went by.

And then I was having dinner at an outdoor restaurant in Salt Lake, and she was at the restaurant next door, and I saw her and her friend go out to, in-into the street, and Caroline was taking a photo of our now mutual friend Brooke, had a baby bump. She was pregnant with the sunset behind, and I turned to my buddies and I said, "Yeah I bet, one of those girls are gonna post that photo in the next 10 minutes."

And sure enough, Brooke posted it and and I, commented on it and said, "Just saw you take that photo. Look to your 6:00. #creeper." And apparently that worked. I, honestly don't know what I was thinking at the time calling myself a creeper, but I was kinda creeping, not on purpose. And she had recently broken up with her boyfriend, so our, and our mu- mutual friend Brooke brought her over and [00:34:00] they were just kinda chatting and Caroline wasn't saying much.

She had some cyber stalkers and things the creeper thing wasn't probably the right thing to say to her. She wasn't saying a whole lot, but Brooke said Caroline, this is gonna watch the lunar eclipse tonight. What are you guys doing?" And I was like we're going to watch the Jazz game."

And then I thought later, "Hey, you know what? Maybe I should reach out to Caroline." and so I did, and a week, later we had dinner. This was before Instagram even had direct messages. So on her Instagram on her profile, her email was there, so I emailed her and, that's how the conversation started 

Kush: Rob, I had to mute myself because I was, cracking up so bad.

That is a really good story. And yes, social media can delight us in, in, in good ways too sometimes. And since we are on this thread, I have to ask you this. Obviously, this is one core way Caroline adds value to [00:35:00] your life, this whole goal planning and ambition. Curious, if I was to ask Caroline this question, what's the biggest value that Rob provides her, what do you think she might say?

Rob Lea: Ooh, that is a good question. maybe I would probably say some sort of, stability, levelheadedness. I can be pretty even-keeled, and w- earlier I think I said these activities, they take you to the highest highs and the lowest lows, and I actually really love going there.

But in, in everyday life, I'm a pretty even-keeled kind of guy. My, my day job is I sell real estate. I sell homes to people, and it's all about like managing emotions and and that, that sort of thing. So I think that I'm probably pretty good at that, and Caroline is always living on the highest of [00:36:00] highs and lowest of lows.

So I probably can be an even keel at times whether we're just at home here or out on one of these big adventures. Yeah, let's go with that. Yeah. 

Kush: Okay. No, that's pretty good. I did wanna ask you about your day-to-day thing, and just by talking to you, Rob, I can just see that you yeah, obviously you're very articulate, but I can just see that you present an image that seems to be of somebody let's just say if I wanted to buy a house, I would think that, yes this person can guide me.

Do you think that these two worlds, they complement and help each other in some way? 

Rob Lea: Yeah I in all kinds of ways they complement each other. I think the first one is the flexibility of my job right now. That's probably not what you're really asking here, but I don't have a 9:00 to 5:00 job per se.

No, sure. 

Kush: Sure yeah. 

Rob Lea: But it helps me be able to travel the world. I work with my father in [00:37:00] real estate, and he's gracious enough to take care of my workload when I'm gone. And my parents watch our dog. And th- this is how we always... It ends up being kind of a individual feat when you accomplish something like this, but there's a whole team of people that make it possible.

So part of it is my job being flexible. Of course, it's not flexible when I've got clients in town, and it's all about spending all the time with them. So I've gotta work my training kind of around that. But that's the first part of it. And then, like I said, having that even keel aspect, I think that helps me in real estate, and it also helps me on these swims.

When, I do these swims or, I... Same thing with the climbs, but es- especially the swims because my head is in the water for something like 12 hours, and then every 30 minutes I get 30 seconds of human interaction with someone. So you're in your own head, and you better be okay with your own thoughts and be able to talk to yourself nicely and all those kind [00:38:00] of things.

And try to have that even keel to a certain extent because yeah, there's always gonna be times that you're gonna think, "What am I doing out here?" And why shouldn't I get out? What, what's stopping me from getting out?" And having that even keel I think is, helpful.

Kush: Rob, going back to the planning, right? Now you have these events marked on your calendar. I'm guessing some of those dates probably coincided with when certain things were going to be in season versus not. How do you organize your training now? Because this is... You did the, this ultimate triathlon thing, which was maybe over one year.

But now this is, stepping up, 

Rob Lea: Yeah. 

Kush: And swimming oceans is different than learning how to acclimatize at 20,000-plus feet. Different types, maybe there are some similarities, maybe there are differences. Would love [00:39:00] to get a view into your world on how did you- did you get a different kind of coach?

Did you figure out this is... There were, were th- were there some lessons there? Some things that were not done correctly? So take us to that time of your life. 

Rob Lea: Yeah I haven't had a coach since my triathlon days, so that would've been 2012 was the last time I had any kind of a coach. And I've always been an athlete that just goes mostly off of feel, if I'm totally honest.

I, I do plan some of my training and, of course, when I'm-- I've got a big swim coming up, I'm gonna realize that I need to put a big swimming block in going into that. O- and the same thing in the climbing world, but I would say particularly for the swims. But it's all about cardio for me, and it's just about keeping that engine going.

And if I'm totally honest, there were plenty of times that I wasn't able [00:40:00] to get the training in that I wanted, and that that's for a number of reasons. Could just be life reasons, could be work could be some of my health. My training going into my last swim here in Sugru was absolutely atrocious, but I had to rely on a, a lifetime of, training and the, the knowledge that I could get a swim done.

Could I have done it faster, and could it have maybe felt a little bit better, easier if I would've gotten a better training block? Yeah. But I, just knew I had to go into these swims with some confidence that I could get it done. yeah I would just ramp up swimming when I had a swim coming up and like I mentioned, Caroline being a professional skier I love going out and backcountry skiing, and that's perfect training to climb these mountains.

So I do that mostly in the winter, and we do a lot of ridge scrambling, which I really enjoy in the summer. And the swimming is a little bit more like dragging myself out of bed at [00:41:00] 6:00 a.m. to, to be at the lake and, get some cold water swimming in and that sort of thing.

But at the end of the day just got in the, kind of training I could.

Kush: Even when you were at the height of your Ironman training, are you saying that you were distinct in the way you would prepare?

Rob Lea: Yep I was the same way. I I think that was right at the time that, more smart watches were becoming more popular. And I, did have one, but I used it more to track I don't know, how long I swam par- for a particular day or something like that. If I remember correctly, I don't even think I wore a watch in my big races, like when I was got my world champion Half Ironman there.

I go completely off of feel, and I'm not looking at my heart rate. I'm just getting to that heart rate that I know inside that I can hold at a steady la- r- steady rate for [00:42:00] however long I need to. So it's all been about feel for, my entire life, I think. I've never been obsessed with the numbers like like a lot of triathletes are, or a lot of athletes really.

Kush: was it a lot of just, "Hey, I have this goal coming up to climb a mountain, let me just go and do some backcountry peaks in my backyard in Utah," or, "I have a big swimming up- coming up and I will just go and just try to get in as much swim time"? 

Rob Lea: It's mostly the latter, if I'm honest, and it's a little almost embarrassing to say.

But yeah, especially the the climbing and the skiing, that's mostly just going out with other people, and I'm on, Not, it's not necessarily my time to get a particular workout in, and so I'm just out there pushing myself in any given way. But you're with a group. Normally you're not backcountry skiing by yourself.

And then the swimming yeah, I just I know that I need to get some longer swims in, and I do most of [00:43:00] my swimming here in Utah in the pools because there's only so many times I can get in open water. Of course, if I'm on the coast, if I'm in California or Hawaii or something like that I can try to get some open water swim training in.

But most of my training is in the pools, and then I've got some reservoirs that around the middle of June are warm enough to get in and start doing some real training. And so I try to do some swims that are more like two or three hours. But aside from the big channel swims that I've done very few swims over s- over three hours in my life.

I had to do a six-hour qualifying swim for the English Channel and I did that about two weeks before I did the the English Channel. That was by far the longest swim I've ever done. But yeah, back to your question, it's, all off a feel, and it's it's not very organized as far as my training and HRV or my VO2 max.

I, At some point, I should probably go get my VO2 max tested. I don't think I've been tested since maybe high school or something like that. So it'd be interesting to, to check that out. [00:44:00] 

Kush: Yeah, I maybe I wouldn't even bother because you probably are already at the top of the pile there. Rob 

from what I saw, I have seen that people who specialize or people who are really good at they will do that sport 12 months a year, right? Maybe they take a like, a rest and recovery break- You are doing, again, like training for this huge project.

You will go, I don't know, you'll go to Nepal, climb a mountain, right? Which will put you out of swimming maybe for a long stretch of time. 

Rob Lea: Yeah. 

Kush: And then you have to come back and start prep- preparing again for maybe the swim in Hawaii. 

Rob Lea: Yeah. 

Kush: How did you manage that? 

Rob Lea: Yeah you just manage the best you can.

So I think the best example of that was in 2019 doing that Ultimate World Tri. I actually met one of the the guys who had done the Peak and Pond on Everest right after we had finished climbing, and he, literally looked [00:45:00] at me and he knew what I was trying to do, that I was trying to go swim the English Channel in a month and a half, and he, gave me really good advice.

He just said, "Do not go home and start working and try to get your swim training in. Do not like we always talk about cram studying or whatever. "Don't cram in all your training to get ready for this. You need to go home and you need to put on as much weight as possible." this is probably horrible advice for your listeners here, but I knew that I could swim for a long way, but I, couldn't swim for a long way if I got hypothermia.

And so I came home and I barely swam other than that that qualifier swim that I needed to do. I mostly would just put on weight, and I put on 30 pounds in 30 days. And that was just- Whoa ... to keep me warm enough, and that was not easy to do. That means you're not working out much. You're very little.

I might go for a little easy swim, but most of the time I was just home and I would eat whenever I wasn't full, not even just when you're [00:46:00] hungry. I had two sponsors at the time. I had a pizza sp- pizza restaurant company here in Park City that was giving me free pizza, and Fat Tire Beer was sponsoring me, and I was drinking a couple of quarts of whole milk or heavy cream every week.

So put it in my coffee, put it in whatever I could. I was just trying to pack on the pounds. And this kind of goes back to the swims and, that is at some point you have to know that the, the training is is already done, and that if you're a week out from one of these 12-hour swims, in my opinion, almost nothing you're gonna do is gonna help, you other than making sure that your body is rested enough and ready for the upcoming challenge.

So I'm more of a rest guy going into these events than I am cramming training, thinking, "Okay, I gotta get one more swim in, and I gotta get one more hard swim in." you just have to adapt and do what you can to show up on that day as prepared as you can, and usually [00:47:00] that means rest in my opinion.

Kush: Rob, I'm just trying to get my head wrapped around this. In my limited worldview, I'd only heard of movie stars gaining weight for certain roles. 

Rob Lea: Yeah. 

Kush: Is this somewhat common in the swim world that people will gain weight for big swims? 

Rob Lea: So on that particular one it was a little extreme because I'd come off Everest and if, if-- You might know on these big mountains you're gonna lose weight because you lose your appetite.

Your body's literally eating itself. So I had lost some weight on the, climb. But I think it's relatively normal for open-water swimmers, particularly cold open-water swimmers to have a couple extra pounds on them. It's gonna... It probably helps my flotation a little bit in some aspect, but you've gotta keep yourself warm enough and part of that is the engine.

Keep moving while you're in the water. But part of it is just the body physiology and y- I went-- In 2018, [00:48:00] I went to a swim camp in Mallorca. It's an open water swim camp specifically designed for folks that were trying to get ready for the English Channel. And I showed up, I think there was probably a dozen swimmers there, and not, to be cocky here, but I was probably one of the better swimmers or the fastest swimmer there or something close to that.

But then once we got into the water and the water was unseasonably cold. It was supposed to be high 50s, low 60s, and I was supposed to do this training swim, a six-hour training swim in under 61-degree water. The water was, I think it ended up being about 40... 52 or 53 degrees. I, I got in and I was able to, get through the, the two and three-hour swims.

But I had to get out and all these other swimmers kept on keeping on and they, got their six-hour swims done. I wasn't able to, and that was humbling because I knew that I was a good swimmer, but I, knew that it wasn't all about being the fastest guy out there. I had to, survive the cold.

[00:49:00] And a lot of these swims are cold and actually even the hot water swims now that my my second to last swim was the Molokai swim in Hawaii. That was a warm swim and that was actually one of the more difficult swims for me probably because I've trained my body and I have a certain body type to, to help me with the cold water.

I think a lot of s- open water swimmers have a little extra weight on them to help keep them warm and, a- actually on after posting about this last swim, I had some comments online saying, talking about "You don't look like you're in shape enough to do this swim," or literally just calling me fat.

And Wow ... there's different body types for different sports and if you're doing a cold water swim you might need to have a couple extra pounds on you. 

Kush: It's funny. If it was me, somebody telling me that I need to gain weight for some big swim, I would not really wanna follow the [00:50:00] advice.

But looks like you learned this the very real way because you found yourself in this situation. This really remarkable situation because on one hand, you were a very capable swimmer in this group. 

Rob Lea: Yeah. 

Kush: But on the flip side, they were able to do something that you were not able to do, so- 

Rob Lea: They, crushed on me.

They were- Yeah they... It wasn't just... Yeah, like I had to tail between the legs, get up on the boat, and that's not what you wanna do in a group environment like that as well, 'cause if I get on the boat, then other people, their mind goes to if he can do it, I could get on that boat, too."

So it's the last thing you wanna do, but I was in such a place that I... It was not working, and and they still were able to, get the swims done. 

Kush: Rob maybe a, deeper question. So you were becoming more capable in the water, I'm guessing, once you, you gained that weight and you found like like new, superpowers in [00:51:00] being able to withstand.

But did it make you feel less athletic? Because You had this identity as this a hard-charging, I don't know, like probably a lean, fit person who fits some stereotype of what an athlete needs to look like. 

Rob Lea: To a certain extent the answer is yes, of course, right? If, you- if I'm trying to be an athlete and do these new world feats, basically you w- you wanna look like that athlete, like I mentioned earlier, the big three, the guy doing slamming the the basketball down.

He doesn't-- he's not putting on a couple extra pounds by any stretch of the imagination. But I just knew that this is the the body type that I needed for the events that I was trying for. I had a friend who was a, a Olympic gold medalist in the bobsled in Vancouver. I think that was [00:52:00] 2010.

Steve Holcomb. And he was in the, one of the Sports Illustrated Body Issues, and th- I think that was a really interesting issue if people might remember that. I, don't know if they still do something like that. But he, was a, a gold medalist, a world-renowned athlete, super strong, fit guy. And they put him out there like a full page of him, and he was a pretty large guy, too, because you need a, a lot of mass and gravity to help you in bobsled.

And his weight fluctuated throughout the year immensely. And I, guess I, I just bring this up, there's... Y- every sport has a different body type, and you just have to somewhat embrace that. Because I literally, no question, I would not have survived these swims if I was the same 170, 160, 170, 180-pound guy that I was during my triathlon days.

When I swam some of these big swims, I was 210 pounds, and that's not my normal kind of body weight for the other [00:53:00] things that I do. But but I knew that I needed that weight to keep me warm enough. It it just, it comes with the territory. 

Kush: I am guessing this might have even shifted your maybe long-held beliefs of what an ideal athletic body needs to look like.

Yeah. Because maybe what it looks like is different than what it is capable of. 

Rob Lea: Sure. Absolutely, yeah. And I, I would say that being a swimmer, I've spent I don't know how many hours of my life in a Speedo, so I've been pretty comfortable with my own body to a certain extent. But yeah, it has certainly shifted my mentality and I think, it's the whole don't judge a book by its cover story.

I think you never know when you're at the grocery store, what someone's going through in their own mind, their body, and what they might be capable of, and all these things. And, [00:54:00] it's a, I think it's a good lesson to learn 

when I came back from Everest I'm not sure how much I weighed, but I probably weighed something like 170 or so. So when I swam the English Channel, I think it was about...

Yeah, I was probably 175 when I came back from the Everest, and I was 205 when I swam the English Channel. My weight has fluctuated throughout the years in the different events. But it hasn't... I- it's fluctuated more in the, I would say, 190 to 205 range. It hasn't gone down to the, the lower ranges, and we'll see now that I'm done with this group of swims.

I, I think I might feel better doing some of the mountain pet things, mountain biking and running and ridge running and all this kind of stuff. It might feel a little bit better if if I drop a couple more pounds. But I've kept most of that weight, and yes, as some of the swims have come up and it's a cold swim, particularly the North Channel, which is y- [00:55:00] between the North Channel and Molokai, those are, I think, the most difficult of the seven swims.

The North Channel is known for being really cold, and I was in that water for 10 and a half hours, and it was around 53, 54, 55 degrees. So that's a long time to be in pretty chilly water. but I knew that I needed to go into that swim a little bit heavier, and I purposely put on a little bit of weight for that one.

I knew that this swim in Japan was gonna have some cold water at the end, but I didn't actually probably prepare enough for it. It was colder than I expected and, a little bit of a shock at the end of this last one. 

Kush: I wanna make sure I heard this correctly. So this was the Molokai Channel swim where the water went down to 55.

Is that correct? The, 

Rob Lea: the North Channel was down to probably 50- Oh, 

Kush: the North Channel. Got it. 

Rob Lea: Yep. Yeah. Yep. Between Ireland and Scotland. Yeah. 

Kush: And Rob, there was one swim where you suffered let's say a pretty severe medical event. 

Can you tell us [00:56:00] what happened and what was the aftermath? 

Rob Lea: Sure, yeah.

That, that was the Molokai swim between Molokai and Oahu in Hawaii. And this is part of what I'm saying. I was still probably 195 pounds going into that swim, but it was warm water. And you would think warm water, oh my gosh, this is gonna be just easier. I'm not gonna be cold the whole time.

But when your body is basically trained for that cold water I, don't know this for sure, but I think probably I was overheating a little bit on that swim. It's also the longest of the swims. It was 30 miles and took 14 and a half hours. And there was lots of challenges with that swim. They, had a, recent issue with cookie cutter sharks which are these like small prehistoric sharks that come up from the darkest parts of the ocean in the middle of the night and they take literally a cookie sized bite out of swimmers or tuna or sharks or whatever else 'cause there's all kinds of sea life on that on [00:57:00] that swim.

And my boat pilot wasn't confident in swimming across that channel during the night. It's... A lot of times it's more preferable to swim during the night because the weather conditions and the water conditions are gonna be a lot calmer. So we started at 3:00 AM instead of swimming all the way through the night.

So I was swimming mostly during the day on that. So not only was the water warmer, but the temperature or the air temperature was warmer. And when I approached Oahu when I was about 12 hours into that swim I knew I was running low on gas and, just overall I was in a little bit of trouble.

The last literally even half hour I could see people on the beach. I could hear them. I could see cars. I'd been swimming for that long and I mentioned this earlier, I did not wanna go start this, that swim over the next year and try, again, and I was so close. I knew I had to make it, but I also was telling the kayaker next to me [00:58:00] "I'm in some trouble here."

I- it felt like I was having a heart attack. My heart was beating so hard out of its chest, and I felt like I was drowning. And then I also... my arms like stopped working basically. So I was- I would take a couple of strokes and then I was breathing so hard and my heart was b- then I'd flip over and I'd just kick on my back a little bit.

And at the end of the day I stumbled on the beach and I thought that I would recover because I normally do from these swims. But after about 36 hours I was getting this crackling in my lungs, and I know from my halt- high altitude climbing that's, that, that's HAPE. That's high altitude pulmonary edema.

What I had was SIPE, which is swimming induced pulmonary edema. So I thought I was drowning. I actually was drowning. I had liquid in my lungs. It wasn't the seawater that I was taking on, but I had a pressure indifference in my body and I was basically I, I had like- leaked liquid into my lungs.

And so I went to the hospital, and they gave me a diuretic called [00:59:00] Lasix to take the, water off of me. And that, after I got that, it, that helped the immediate effects quite a bit. But my lungs were pretty injured for a while. I think it probably took two to three months for my lungs to fully heal, and that's part of why my training for Japan wasn't better.

Because I had to take three months off not just swimming, but literally I couldn't... I didn't do any exercise for probably two months. I was just... I was absolutely fatigued, and my lungs were injured, and so I basically did two months with with no activity. 

Kush: That is, so intense, Rob.

It... Was it something about your technique during that swim, or was it some other factor in why you had this unexpected condition happen to you? 

Rob Lea: I don't have a great answer because I don't really know. I've talked to I've, spoken to a number of [01:00:00] doctors since that happened, and I need to keep investigating to see what happened.

Like I said, I think maybe I overheated a little bit and overexerted myself. 'Cause I also had rhabdo, which is basically, if you're familiar your muscles s- basically give out on you and stop working and start releasing the toxin into your body. So there was a lot of things happening to my body- Wow

at the end of that swim that I'm not really sure why they happened, and that's the only time I've had, had that. At the end of most swims I'm, obviously absolutely fatigued and gassed and all the things, and sometimes I've got shoulder or elbow issues, but I've never had anything like that where basically my body was shutting down.

Kush: Do you have any mantras, any, any sort of any methods when things get really difficult? It could be in the oceans, or it could actually also be right below the summit of a big peak.

Are there some things that you do which allow [01:01:00] you to keep pressing on, keep putting that next paddle stroke or the next foot in front? 

Rob Lea: Yeah, I would say I, I try to remind myself that I choose to do these things. Th- this isn't something someone's forcing me to do. It's not like my I'm five years old and my parents are making me go to some practice and I've gotta be there, right?

I choose to do them and, not, I don't just choose to do them, I get to do them because th- this is taking me all around the world, these different challenges and I get to see some amazing places and try these hard things. So I choose to do them, I get to do this. That's kind of one of the mantras I use some of the time.

On that Molokai swim I remember thinking when I was like 12 hours in, I just had this mantra of 56, 56, 56, and that comes from Sarah Thomas that was on your show. She swam for 56 hours straight. And then she had another swim 54 hours I think that [01:02:00] was the... I think the 56 was swimming Lake Powell and 54 was the English Channel.

So when I did the English Channel in 2019, I thought, "Oh, cool, look at I, just swam the English Channel." She swam it four times in a row basically without stopping it was really- After cancer. 

Kush: After 

Rob Lea: cancer. Yeah, it's a year after cancer. Just incredible. So I had a mantra, like if she can do that for 56 hours, I knew I wasn't gonna be swimming for 56, but I thought to myself, "I can swim for another hour or two to get this swim done."

As I mentioned before, we do anything we can to just keep our minds going and trick our minds into let's go another half hour. And usually that rollercoaster's gonna come back around and you're gonna start feeling better at least for some period of time, and then you're gonna have to deal with some of those darker demon feelings at some point, and you just gotta get through that next half hour.

Kush: Not startling, but certainly easy to forget that these activities are completely optional. [01:03:00] 

Rob Lea: Yeah. 

Kush: They might get you that next pizza pie from your- Yeah ... From your pizza sponsor. But really, Yeah ... I, think a lot of us forget that, yes, these are in the larger game of humanity, these are indeed much more yeah.

It's, yeah we, do them because we love doing them. 

Rob Lea: Yep. 

Kush: We have spent quite a bit of time about the, about your experiences with the ocean swims.

What environment makes you feel more vulnerable, Rob? The ocean or the mountain? 

Rob Lea: Ooh, that is tough. The, the original blogs that I saw on, "Is Everest or the English Channel tougher?" kind of address that a little bit in the sense that on Everest you can always put on another layer.

Generally speaking, if you've got [01:04:00] another layer, you can put on another layer or do something to try to maybe protect yourself from the environment. But the swims the, the part that makes you feel vulnerable is that it's, literally You You get to wear a cap, goggle, and a Speedo. And that's it.

So it's you and the ocean. You've got your boat and your crew there to help you out and, get you through the swim, but it really does feel like you and, the ocean. So I think I'd have to go with with the ocean on that one

Kush: What do the mountains bring out in you that the oceans do not?

Rob Lea: I've been a swimmer my entire life. I love swimming. I love the water. I love the oceans. And you can get in this like rhythm and a flow state in, in the water. And I've got my crew there, but typically the mountains I would say the, the number one thing is that you're doing it [01:05:00] with a group of people, generally speaking, right?

It'd be fun to go climb a mountain by yourself, but it's more about the experience of the, the folks that you are doing it with. It, I think it's the overall experience in the mountains with hopefully the local people that are, you're, they're you're climbing the mountain with there. I'm there with my wife and other folks climbing the mountain, and those relationships that you get along the way.

It's, the old adage that the summit's just part of the thing. It's, more about the whole experience and I just, I I grew up in the mountains. I love the mountains and there's something about being out there that I... You standing on, a summit or a ridge line that It's, hard to explain, but being up high and looking down is, it's literally the opposite of swimming 'cause in the swimming I see maybe my, basically my hands and I'm looking over at the boat.

It's very confined to what I see, and there's usually not much sea life. [01:06:00] Hopefully not much sea life. Being in the mountains is just a whole different experience and and, a- and an enjoyable one. 

Kush: One other difference I can m- I, I can see, or comes to mind right away is that you cross the s- swim however difficult it might have been- but you reach the shore and, things start becoming comfortable gradually. But on a mountain you kinda have to get back to base camp. 

Rob Lea: Yeah. The summit's only halfway for sure. And n- even base camp usually there's still a long way to, get out of the mountains or get home depending on where you are in the world or if you're home or whatnot.

But absolutely yeah. It's, Yeah, one- once I'm done with the swim... Although I'll tell a funny story and that is after the Japan swim I finished, and they had all these like fishing ropes and things. It turns out I think there were kelp farms off the coast [01:07:00] there, and so the boat couldn't come in close to the shore with me.

So after I swam 30 I think that was about 29 miles in 11 and a half hours, I finished and I had to swim a mile back out to the boat just to head back to Honshu. Talk about just brutal irony- Oh, my goodness ... that I finished the swim and then I had to swim another mile back out to the boat.

But no, you're right. I think there's lots of differences but I, I really enjoy being in the mountains and it's in, in swimming, but I think the relationships in the mountains are what are really special. 

Kush: Rob, this... Okay, this huge adventure took you to all kinds of places. Which place, if you had to pick one, has amazed you the most?

Rob Lea: It's an impossible question to answer because I can tell you [01:08:00] the climbing Vinson Massif and skiing off the summit in Antarctica is just an experience I'll never forget. And- Oh, you 

Kush: skied down the summit too. 

Rob Lea: Yeah. Yep, yep. Wow. We skied off with I 

Kush: guess I'm- Yeah ... yeah, with Caroline, 

Rob Lea: Yeah

I'm 

Kush: guessing. 

Rob Lea: Yeah. 

Kush: Okay. 

Rob Lea: Yep and, our buddy Jonathan. The three of us skied off the summit there, and that was really cool. As opposed to Carson's Pyramid, or it's also the local name is Puncak Jaya in Indonesia. You're, like, in a rainforest most of the time in the middle of nowhere on this really just interesting rock.

And then I got to climb Kilimanjaro with my family. And it'd be like trying to pick your favorite child or something like that. I don't have children, but it would be like picking your favorite child. And that's what's- Right ... been so fun about this whole thing, is being able to see all these corners of the earth that I would have never seen without this project.

The, the last place that we on this last swim [01:09:00] northern Japan I'd love to go back and ski Hokkaido or some of these areas that a lot of us have friends that have been to. But Aomori is the northern prefecture in Japan, and I think it sees pretty low tourists. And where I started this swim was called Kotamari, Cape Kotamari, and there's a little town there.

There's no reason for me to ever have been there other than the swim. And now I would love to go back to that corner of Japan and spend more time there. And so yeah, it... That's been really special about this, is that I've gotten to travel the entire world to, to complete this project. 

Kush: An amazing incidental bonus- Yeah

to have. 

Rob Lea: Yep. 

Kush: And Rob, you were so intensely absorbed in these projects, but you were going to these very distinct places all over. And again, I'm gonna ask you a difficult question, which is has there [01:10:00] been any kind of- Unexpected learning that came out of these about people, culture, places. could be Japan or Hawaii or Indonesia with this really strong focus, but maybe there were some things out there that you saw, you were like, "Wow, this is this is part of my growth."

Rob Lea: I think you're gonna- on, on each one of these, I probably learned about the local culture in a way that probably changed me forever. So the, the cultural aspect of it is, really cool. Other things that I've learned that were maybe unexpected, I would like to see some of the mountains cleaned up a little bit more, and the oceans.

You- sometimes I'll be swimming in the middle of the ocean, and you hit a piece... Y- there's nothing out there, and you're, and then you, I swim into a piece of trash, and [01:11:00] some of the mountains, like Puncak Jaya I think people would abandon trash and tents and, things like that.

And that, that's the kind of thing that I wanna spend time bringing awareness to, and hopefully we can make a difference to to, clean up some of these areas. I'd love to see cleaner waterways and cleaner mountains all around. So I think I've always been an environmentalist, but I think that's one thing that I'd like to continue looking at to see what I can do.

And whether it's one mountain or one area or just overall awareness to, that the, we need to clean the oceans up, I think I think that was an important lesson to learn. 

Kush: We can watch all of these things on YouTube or National Geographic, but I think it takes a visit to really crystallize why it's important to protect these places.

Rob Lea: Yeah. [01:12:00] 

Kush: All these adventures all over the years, they have taken you to incredible places, and I'm, yeah, I'm guessing that after, after a while, maybe yet another ocean crossing or yet another mountain they probably start like blending. But are there still moments when you're immersed that still took your breath away, that here you are getting to play, recreate?

Can you maybe talk about maybe one moment again where you were like, "Wow, this is unreal"? 

Rob Lea: I think that's what it's all about is those moments, right? You- I'm halfway around the world. I- the first one that maybe comes to mind is one of the high camps on Kilimanjaro. I'm there with my wife Caroline, and my father, Jim, and we're watching the sunset, and it's just this amazing glow.

And I- there's just so many special moments that when you get to travel the world and be on the highest mountains in the world and look down, [01:13:00] that's incredible. I, I- the, the first one I can think of is that one in in Kilimanjaro, but every single one of them had a moment or multiple moments like that, and I think that's what recreating is all about.

I can go out on a mountain bike, ride hopefully tonight, and watch the sunset and be absolutely amazed by the sunset and feel like I'm the luckiest guy in the world, and this is my backyard. You don't have to travel around the world to find those amazing moments, but that's what gets me outside every day.

That's, why I probably don't have a concrete training plan for every one of these things. I find those moments to in- that ignite me to get out there and just enjoy my time, and I think that's what my training's all about is finding fun in what we do. This is all optional, so we might as well be having fun doing it.

I need to start getting back to, for a while there in the pool, even if I had a really hard workout to [01:14:00] do or something like that, I always made sure at the very end to at least do one twenty-five yards length of just bouncing up and down off the pool and off the the bottom of the pool.

And that was all about just I need to h- make sure that I'm having some fun out here because training can get monotonous, and we wanna make sure that we're doing it for the right reasons. And my reason was because I was enjoying doing it, and then I got all these amazing benefits of traveling the world and meeting all these amazing people, 

Kush: rob, thank you for sharing that. I have to remind myself every time I complete a climb, or at least every now and then to turn back and look at the view because- Yeah ... yes, it is important. Rob one quick section to ask you a little bit about these, these big these big challenges, they can take a big toll on your body a- and also your mind.

And curious about [01:15:00] some of your cross-training recovery. Like, how do you stay in shape, besides doing the sport? 

Rob Lea: Yeah. Lots of different things, and I would start with maybe- 

Kush: Maybe talk about- Yeah ... How have things changed, let's say, now that I'm, guessing you're in your 40s now, and- Yeah

you're a different person than the, the, best athlete in high school. 

Rob Lea: Yeah. Things have definitely changed, and I would say I I got a cold tub originally, to, get me prepared for these cold swims for the English Channel. But I really value my, my cold plunges and my sauna, my hot tubs.

And I actually I'm really lucky to have a really good body working guy. Like a masseuse, but I don- he, doesn't give me a massage, he heals my body. He's a body healer, I would call him. So I go to him [01:16:00] every two weeks if I'm in town. So I take care of my body that way.

I, I need to start doing a lot more kind of functional strength and strength training now at my age, and I've just started getting into that. I wish I would've probably... I probably should've started this a couple of years ago. My wife has gotten me started and I need to do more of it, and I can see how m- how that's gonna be super helpful going forward here.

'cause yeah, I think at, my age, I'm 45, and I think that strength training is really gonna come in handy, 'cause I've always just said, "I wanna work on the engine and go out in the mountains and see that sunset." But I think the strength training is really gonna help me go see those those sunsets, and k- help keep me healthy do, to do that.

That's gonna be a little bit of a ch- 

Kush: What gave you that realization that that this is a- another thing you need to incorporate into your routine, the strength training? 

Rob Lea: I would say that I've always known it particularly in, when I was doing [01:17:00] triathlon and my coach, Matt Dixon with Purple Patch Fitness out of the Bay Area there.

We had a, a, a good functional strength program of TRX and things like that we did, and I thought it was super helpful. And at the end of the day, it all stems from your core. So it's, if I can keep my core strong and healthy, then generally speaking it's gonna help everything else out. And I got out of the routine of, doing that.

And again, it I think it the f- the switch that went off is my wife Caroline doing it and then telling me to do it and realizing, dang it, she's right again. 

Kush: Also you've had all these injuries and surgical interventions. 

Rob Lea: Yeah. 

Kush: And I've only had a couple, and oh my God, oh my goodness now every day I have to take out like 30, 40 minutes for like shoulder rehab and ankle rehab.

Yeah do you have a maintenance program for just those things? 

Rob Lea: Not necessarily those things. [01:18:00] Sometimes I literally just go back to my functional strength program that I did with with Matt Dixon. That would've been, like, 14 years ago. I still think that's a great circuit that I can do.

And then my wife has some circuits that she does, and I I've been trying to start waking up and doing those with her. Yeah, just doing more of that. So I don't have one in particular that I do. But it- it's mostly- Walk us 

Kush: through, walk us through maybe just a typical strength/functional circuit that you might do.

We don't have to get too, deep- Yeah ... but curious what that might look like. 

Rob Lea: A lot of it's being in a position that's a little bit out of balance. So that- that could be things like TRX, doing single-leg squats or or pushups with your feet on the TRX. But then again if you don't have the, like a TRX band type of thing doing stuff on a physioball where you're not stable, and so you've [01:19:00] gotta stabilize to, to help that core.

'Cause it, like I said, it all goes back to that core, in my opinion. Just doing lunges with weights, doing box jumps, doing yeah, the TRX kind of stuff. I, do lots of that, that kind of stuff. 

Kush: Rob, any other way you are preparing to continue to perform at a high level in your 60s and beyond? 

Rob Lea: I would just say keep having fun.

I, wanna make sure I'm having fun because if I'm having fun, I'm gonna keep doing all these things. If you're not having fun you might be able to do something for a couple weeks or months or maybe even year, years, but it's not, you're not gonna have the ling- longevity if you're not having fun.

And the other side of that is to find people to do these activities with because I think if you've got company, it can make it a lot, again, more fun, more enjoyable, [01:20:00] and they can push you. I I grew up and I live in a place, Park City here, where there, every corner you go around, I can go out on a mountain bike and feel like I'm super fit, and then I run into multiple gold medalists from different disciplines, right?

From biathlon, super athletes. And going out with people who are better than you, that's, sometimes that can be humbling, but it usually is gonna help your fitness, and it's gonna show you're capable of more than you thought. Because you, you've usually got a bar in your mind, I can go run my my 10-mile run at this pace.

But if you go out with someone who's a better runner than you, maybe you can run a little bit faster that day and enjoy it and realize, wow, I'm actually capable of more. So having fun, going out with people, and going out with people who are better than you is always a good idea. 

Kush: Very valuable, Rob.

What about your diet? Yes, you will do [01:21:00] spectacular things to get ready for s- specific events, but on a day-to-day basis, are there any s- yeah, any, any s- any things that you do that are worth talking about? 

Rob Lea: I don't follow any kind of a, a particular diet as far as I'm not vegetarian or I could say that I follow the seafood diet, I see it, I eat it.

But nowadays that I might wanna trim up a little bit after these swims it's all about eating food that is l- less processed, I think. We're all gonna have processed foods in our life. It's just part of our culture, but the least processed foods you can eat, and more natural foods, I think is is a, a good thing to just live by.

I just try to eat a balanced natural diet. 

Kush: Do you concern yourself with, let's say, the nutrient composition of your foods? Like the protein, carbs, fats. Is, any of that enter- No- ... enter [01:22:00] the equation? 

Rob Lea: Not, really. Okay. The only time it maybe comes into the equation is if I'm let's say I'm going out and doing a, a bigger workout or something and I'm taking some gels with me.

Maybe I want some more carbs in there, or honestly, a lot of times I j- I'm just trying to find the most calories for weight purposes. If I'm going in the mountains, I don't wanna have too much weight, right? So I'm just trying to find whatever gel has the most calories. But generally, I try to hit the carbs a little bit harder there as well.

But I don't, no, not necessarily. I I, I just try to eat as much of a balanced diet, as possible. 

Kush: What about any supplements? 

Rob Lea: Don't take any supplements either. Yeah. I try not to put too many pills in my body. Just try to keep it as natural as possible. 

Kush: are you disciplined about getting your blood tested or getting other things tested now that you are older than you were when you first started out on this journey?[01:23:00] 

Rob Lea: I'm really lucky to have an amazing hospital, an amazing doctor pretty close by here. Dr. Testa and and his team have just been incredible over the years. When I had my issues on Molokai, I was able to text him and get a lot of good advice and jump on a call with him, and he's been invaluable through this whole process.

And on, on most of these swims or the climbs, I've got to actually pass a physical to to even start the swim. And so I've had so many physicals over the last 10 years, it's incredible. And a lot of those include... Some of them include blood work, but a lot of them include EKGs and different things for my heart.

I've been pretty lucky to have a lot of that testing, and I think that's helpful going forward. I'm, and I'm even though I might not have a physical for a particular challenge coming up, I think keeping on that is is gonna be really key to just staying healthy and, continuing [01:24:00] my athletic feats for decades to come.

Kush: Wonderful. Rob, you've been so patient. Last part of the conversation, what I call the ageless section.

If 25-year-old Rob was to travel in a time machine and see what you've accomplished, would that person be surprised?

Rob Lea: Yeah. I think you would, 'cause like I said, I don't think I would've dreamt up some of these big challenges without the influences in my life including my wife Caroline. I, I, think I would just be flabbergasted by the life that I get to live here in Park City, and travel the world, and try these athletic adventures, and accomplish hopefully accomplish more to come here, but be able to accomplish the ones that I have.

I would, surprise my 25-year-old self for sure. 

Kush: Rob, over the [01:25:00] years, 

Rob Lea: has anything become harder?

I think life always is gonna be throwing curve balls at you. And at every stage in your life, I've always prided myself in living a balanced life as far as having my athletic goals and my social thing and my work, and trying to fix them, put them all together. Kinda like the whole college thing where if you're...

If, I'm swimming in college, it's actually gonna help my schoolwork because of I know I've gotta set my time aside for my schoolwork and my time aside for my athletics. So there's always this balance thing, and I think the, I'm at a point in my life that the balance is hard sometimes. So trying to find the time to get into the mountains and do all the things that I wanna do there, and go for my morning swim, and then keep up with my job and all my relationships, I think that's, not that easy these days.

Kush: [01:26:00] glad you mentioned balance because I did wanna ask you something on that. Rob, what are some things that are more optional?



Kush: So when it comes to protecting your time, what is it that is sacred?

Rob Lea: Yeah. I think when when I'm thinking about my time and how to prioritize it, I'm, again, tr- trying to balance, but I think the, the thing that you just, you have to be able to get enough sleep because the rest of it goes away without sleep, right? You're not gonna enjoy anything without good sleep. Your relationships are gonna suffer, your athletic stuff, your adventures, all that stuff is gonna is gonna suffer.

And then I would say you just, I h- I have to set aside a certain amount of time to get out and move my body. Gotta move my body every, every day, and that doesn't necessarily mean go for a big adventure or a hard workout. I'm a huge believer in rest and the, need for rest. We talked a little bit about that, [01:27:00] but but I think just moving your body every day is really important.

Kush: For 17 years there was, yeah, there was always another summit or an ocean crossing looming. What is it like to not have that unfinished task hanging? 

Rob Lea: Yeah, I think there's a weight off the shoulder without having a next thing to do, a next challenge. But at the same time, I'm like, I kinda need another checklist, even if it's a small little thing, a local thing.

Maybe I'll just start highlighting the trails around my house or city and just try to see each one of those. 'Cause it's always just nice to have some kind of a checklist to make it easy to plan for the next thing. It, feels good to not have a big, ambitious goal, but I know there will be others to come probably shortly.

Kush: Rob, you're obviously accomplished in so many ways, [01:28:00] but what are you trying to get better at today?

Rob Lea: I'm trying to get better at everything I do, right? I wanna be a better athlete even though I just accomplished this. I wanna be a better husband to my wife, a better friend to my friends that hopefully I've got a little more free time on my hand. I wanna be better at work. I don't think there's a single thing in my life that I'm not trying to be better at and trying to find the time and effort to do that, whether that's just it- it's a time thing and trying to trying to be better at everything I do.

Kush: Last question, Rob. Again, one that I ask everybody, which is what does being ageless mean to you?

Rob Lea: I would say being ageless means en- enjoying my my, my time having fun. I can... When I'm out in the mountains or if [01:29:00] I'm in the pool, I can have a, a, a childlike quality to me, right? I can be dancing in a field of flowers or jumping off the bottom of the pool, and age doesn't come into that equation.

My ability to to maybe do any kind of ath- athletic event might ebb and flow, or it may change over time, but as long as I'm having fun and enjoying it then it's, ageless, for sure. 



I think we can all be better humans in general, and I think kindness goes a long way. I'd much rather be known for being a good person in this world than I would for my double seven or Ultimate World Tri or anything like that. I'd much rather be known as a good person and someone who tried to be good to others and who had fun and and someone who people wanna be [01:30:00] around.

I don't need anybody to be of service to me, but I think we can all be of service to each other by being kind to each other. 

Kush: Rob, very kind. We will put links to your Instagram and even your Realtor website, if you would like, onto the show notes. Any parting words?

Rob Lea: Keep pushing. I think that we're all capable of so much more than we know that we are, and usually you just have to book the ticket, book the trip, book the boat pilot that's gonna take you across the swim or somebody who might help you climb a mountain or whatever you're looking to do. You usually just need to book that ticket and book the trip, and I think we're all much more capable of, capable than we know that we are.

.