You Are Losing Physical Abilities Over Time — Even If You Train Hard Today | Dan Edwardes

Ageless Athlete - Dan Edwardes
===

Dan: [00:00:00] when people hear parkour, they picture young guys jumping between buildings.

Kush: Is that correct, or is there more to it? 

Dan: there's more to it, yeah. But that is also correct. So, um, that, so that is an element of it. That's an aspect of it. That's, uh, that's something you can do with it. Um, it's like saying I suppose when people picture martial arts, you know, they picture spinning back kicks and guys in the octagon beating each other up, you know, and you might say, "Is that, is that it, or is there more to it?"

And it's like, well, that is an element of it, but of course there's, there's also much more to it than that as well. So, and parkour is similar, um, in that it is a, it is a, a discipline and a practice with great profundity. But it also gives you the ability to do very spectacular things, which caught the eye of the world's media pretty early on and that is very attention grabbing.

And so that's what most people see because of the movies and the stunt work and the, and the high click videos. so [00:01:00] most people think it's that. But that, that's just the, like the end result of it, you know? That's just kind of something you can do with it if you want to. Um, but you, you absolutely, equally you never have to do that if you don't want to.

Kush: The illustration or the, uh, the analogy with martial arts is quite apt, But, uh, parkour is still somewhat novel, I think, in popular culture.

So what is parkour actually training? 

Dan: Uh, so that's a great question, and to actually sort of step back to what you just said, I probably have to disagree. So everyone has also pr- done parkour, right? So, um, parkour is... At the end of the day, parkour is, is practical movement. It's using your body to manage your environment and to, traverse any terrain you're faced with, and to solve any kind of physical movement problem that's, that you're presented with, just using your body and your skills.

play is part of parkour. All kids grow up doing locomotor play, running and jumping and climbing and, parkour is, uh, it has... is [00:02:00] effectively a sort of more disciplined version of that. But you say you do climbing and bouldering, you know, we also climb. so parkour uses the... From a movement point of view, it's the only discipline that uses all of the human locomotion patterns, running, jumping, climbing, crawling, swinging, rolling, vaulting.

It's the only one that trains all of these. So we include climbing in what we do. We include running, we include jumping, we include brachiating. But, they're all just applications of movement in order to solve problems. So on a, at a fundamental, level, parkour is the solving of movement problems in your environment, whatever those movement problems are.

so again, you could, you could, analogize with fighting and martial arts and say, my, my background is heavily in martial arts since I was a kid, so I often do this, I suppose. But, um, uh, in terms of martial arts, at its core is the ability to, defeat an opponent in a fight and to protect yourself. Um, and parkour at its core is the ability to solve any movement problem.

and then you can, you know, go into the, [00:03:00] the, the weeds and specialize and, and have different focus and different emphasis, just as martial arts does. Um, but it'll all be under the umbrella of, of the parkour discipline. 

Kush: What I'm hearing is that we have all been doing parkour as- Yeah ... we have grown up, but we didn't know that we were doing it.

this other thing that you said, I wanna dig deeper. You said parkour is about solving problems in our environment. So what are these things you're trying to solve with parkour? 

Dan: so in the sa- again, the same way that climbing and bouldering, they will talk about, puzzles on the wall. They'll call them problems, right?

Bouldering problems, climbing problems. So it's not pro- doesn't mean problem in a bad way. It just means that's a puzzle to solve. That's a challenge. that's a task to undertake. So when we talk about solving problems in the movement, sense in parkour, it could be such a simple thing as how do I get over this eight-foot wall in front of me?

How do I, um, climb across this, uh, this tr- how do I traverse this [00:04:00] kind of rock face to get to where I need to be? How do I balance along these rails, to see if I can get to the other side just for fun? Um, so it could be, it could be a problem that you actually have to solve and the real kind of original parkour philosophy was one about, very much about, developing the skills to manage situations in your environment that your body might need in order to be able to reach somewhere, uh, or in order to be able to escape problems or in order to be able to, catch someone or something like that, right?

So actual functional tasks, but in most training it's just whatever challenge and whatever problem you decide to set yourself in the same way that climbers set their own, bouldering problems, let's say. so it's, um, it's think- looking at things as obstacles and thinking, how can I navigate that obstacle?

How can I interact with it in a way that will challenge me, in a way that will test me, force some adaptation, uh, engage me, and bring me fun and joy as well?

Kush: When looked online or when just looked at, parkour is absolutely compelling. People are, [00:05:00] uh, doing these, uh, daring gymnastic feats, as you said, in a natural environment, and they, they're fun to look at. But, you know, we look at or we enjoy watching a lot of, uh, sporting spectacles. It could be the Olympics, it could be other things.

But why should somebody in their 40s, 50s, even older, care about it for themselves? 

Dan: For their own... So why should they care about parkour as for their own health, their own training? 

Kush: Correct. What is, what is the benefit of parkour for the everyday person beyond just visual enjoyment? All 

Dan: right. Got it. parkour is essentially movement, and the more you move, the more likely you are to survive longer, the more likely you are to avoid physical problems, postural problems, diabetes, um, you know, heart problems, musculoskeletal [00:06:00] injuries.

The more likely you are to have neurogenesis and develop brain cells and stay alert longer, and the more likely you are to, uh, enjoy your life because you have a health span that matches your lifespan. so there's kind of a thousand reasons. it shouldn't really be a question of why should we do it?

It should be a question of if you're not moving regularly and challenging your body's movement skills, uh, throughout your life, then why aren't you? Like, that,that's a big problem. as I think, was it Socrates that said, "It's every- everyone's responsibility to, develop their body and to train their body and to, to, to keep that,to keep that strength as long as we can."

and I think that's probably a better way of looking at it rather than why should I do it? It's a case of, well, if you're not doing it as an issue, if you're not moving enough. Doesn't necessarily have to be parkour, but you need to find a form of movement, a form of, of, um, of physical practice.

Could be dance, could be martial art, could be climbing. But you need to find something that keeps you moving, keeps you mobile, keeps you, [00:07:00] adapting and changing and thinking, uh, as much for your brain, uh, development and your mental health as for your physical. But obviously the two are completely aligned, right?

Mens sana in corpore sano. Sound mo- sound, um, mind and a sound body. you can't really have one without the other. So we would say you need to find a discipline or a practice. and whether that's parkour or dance, great. Doesn't really matter, but, um, but find one that you enjoy and that you can stick with.

Kush: I, I think a lot of people listening will be raising their eyebrows because for them, dance means one thing, and then parkour means... I mean, dance has been normalized in popular culture. A lot of people will go dancing- Mm ... or do some kind of dancing. But, uh, a- again, parkour Parkour can feel extreme. And I think what, what you are telling us is that, it may not be that extreme.

there's a strong case for parkour that I would love for you to, uh, elucidate.

Dan: Yeah, I mean, my, the, so the reason I chose, if [00:08:00] I take it back to myself, the reason I chose parkour as my training discipline when I encountered it, or rather, I suppose it chose me in a way, but, but the reason I stuck with it and it became the predominant training discipline of my life more than any other, and I've trained many, and have encountered many since and been at the, you know, very highest end of the fitness, fit- professional fitness world and, and, and seen all that and dealt with different athletes from all walks of life and, uh, and the highest levels.

and the reason I think, the reason I personally would advocate for parkour is If not the best, then definitely, one of the best disciplines is that it is one of the few disciplines, let's say, that is completely aligned with y- the evolutionary function of your body which is to move over terrain.

That is what your body is designed to do, and that's what your brain is actually designed to do. That's what helped the brain become what it is. and parkour is, is exactly aligned with that. So when we're training in parkour, we are using the body literally i- in ways it was evolved to be used, which is to cross terrain and to master our [00:09:00] environment.

now every other use of the body is also great, but many of them are, are arbitrary functions, let's say. and maybe specialized functions like golf, for example. Nothing wrong with golf, but it's a very specialized set of movements, right? Most sports are that way. even most fitness training and most gym exercises are very specialized, limited forms of movement on the whole.

Whereas parkour, like a child's play, is effectively asking you to use the whole of your body to solve a problem, all of the time, and there's no prescribed way to do it. So it's how does your body want to solve this problem? Tap into your movement potential, and build on that. So it works for everyone, no matter what their shape and size.

and it directly connects to the way you- your body wants to move. So it feels good. When people do it, they feel good 'cause they're like, "This is ... I'm sort of allowed to just use my body without ... There's no rules, there's no restrictions. There's no, 'You must move like this. You must step like this.

You must have this hand here.'" There's none of that. It's, it just get ... Solve this problem. Get across this gap, climb this, get through this, whatever it [00:10:00] is. and that's very good feeling for people 'cause it's very pow- it's very empowering, it's very liberating. Um, so th- that alone I think is probably an incredibly strong reason to do it.

Two, as I've already said, it's the only discipline in the world, and this is, uh, well-documented now 'cause there are, there are some really good studies on this, but it's the only discipline in the world that uses all of the locomotion patterns of the human body. Some come close, but none of them use all of them.

So it's the only one that's actually a comp- what we would call a complete movement practice. and, uh, it's the only one. That's it. so, uh, so it has that going for it. plus it's, it, it will really develop these practical skills that actually can really help you in many other walks of life, 'cause it develops what we call general physical literacy, um, much like locomotor play for children is designed to do.

And that general physical literacy can then be applied to any task you want. So it can help you become better at sports, it can help you become better at fitness training, it can help you become better in a fight, it can help you become better at climbing a mountain, it can help you anything you want.

Parkour will give you a base that makes you very competent just using your body for any other skill too. [00:11:00] um, that gives it a huge amount of strength, um, I think. So there's, there's loads of reasons. and then you could go into, like, the, uh, you could break it down and say, well, what are the actual sort of sports science reasons?

You could say, well, it develops loaded mobility and flexibility li- like very few disciplines do. it develops a real practical strength, not a sort of arbitrary strength, but a real world strength, from fingertips to toes that allows you to move your body and solve, and solve real problems. It develops huge resilience.

It develops incredibly strong bones. It develops, um, great agility, great spatial awareness, great proprioception. I mean, it, it basically trains everything that the fitness world would tick- would want to be ticked. Uh, and it does them all at the same time in one training session. So you never have to, like, you know, s- specialize.

Oh, I'm just gonna practice this. Parkour, parkour training trains everything at once, and that makes it very, very powerful.

Kush: Then you came into parkour having already practiced Other physical disciplines at a high level. Mm-hmm. So what was [00:12:00] that, aha moment for you where you found that, wait a second, you know, I'm, yeah, I'm already good at these things, but now I need to pivot and focus on this new thing?

Dan: Yeah, and it, it was a very definite... There was an aha moment, and it was very early on in my training. and, it made me realize that, not necessarily pivot, but it made me realize that, okay,this is missing from my training, and my training is, is hitherto incomplete. So I was training in martial arts and practical sort of fighting skills since I was very, very young, in a very fanatical way.

So so I was training super hard from a young age in that stuff. And also training in, in just general physical competence and, and sort of, exploration and practical skills, survival skills and things like that. um, I was very interested in, in this sort of idea of being, physically complete individual.

Um, and able to sort of be self-reliant, resilient, deal with any problem, help other people, et cetera. And then when I encountered parkour very early on in, in the early days of its d- of its, um, exposure, so very few people trained it back then. This is before [00:13:00] YouTube and all that. Um, and I s- and I started training.

I was living in Japan at the time. I was living there to train in a, in a sword art that you can only train in, in Japan. So I was living there to train in that. and I came across parkour and, uh, s- saw it in a movie and thought, "I wanna try that." So I looked up, found some of the French guys online, had some internet correspondence with them in the forums back in the day, and then started training by myself in Japan, me and one other guy.

so we didn't really know what we were doing. But we exposed ourselves to just, "Let's just try it out." And we went outside and tried out some of the things we'd, we'd seen these guys doing in the movies and p- uh, Yamakasi movie from 2000. and I remember the, there was a jump that I wanted to try, and it was maybe in the first or training, second training session.

And it was from one wall to another with, with sort of maybe, a 10, 10, 15-foot drop, uh, which seemed very high at the time. It was all concrete. and it was, you know, maybe eight foot across. And I looked at it and I knew physically that I could jump that far, and I knew I could grab the wall and the rail on the other side and pull myself up.

So I knew I could do it. But I [00:14:00] looked at it and I felt afraid. I felt, I looked at it down and realized like, " I can do this, but there's a consequence to failure here." So the question is, how much do I trust my abilities? How much do I trust my skills? Do I really believe that I have this ability?

and that fear was what, that was the aha moment for me. That was when I realized, like, I could walk away from this. No one cares. No one's watching. There's no medals. There's no prizes. you know, I don't need to do this. but if I walk away, I would know that I don't trust myself to do a task that I know I can do.

and I didn't like the fact that I didn't, I didn't have the control, I didn't have the agency, uh, or I wouldn't have had the agency if I'd walked away. So I decided to do it, and I did it. Pulled myself up the other side. And the feeling I got from that, immed- immediately I knew I will train this forever.

because I, I realized then that this is real practice. This is not even practice, this is actually doing something. So I have a phrase that parkour is doing... parkour [00:15:00] means doing what most people only ever train to do. and most fitness training and, and stuff like that, you're, you're building a tool, you're building a, may- maybe you're sharpening an ax, but you're never really using it to cut down the tree.

Whereas in parkour, you are, every session you are cutting that tree down. and you're testing the ax and, and sharpening the ax at the same time, but you're using the ax. and so it's, it's a very honest discipline, and it shows you there and then in that training session every day wh- who you actually are.

Can you do this today? Do you have it physically? Do you have it mentally? Do you have it emotionally? Do you have the energy? Do you have the mood? Are you sick? Are you tired? Are you, you know, who are you today? and that for me was incredibly powerful. and I realized you can't fake this training. You can't cheat in this training.

You can't lie to yourself. you know whether you can do it or not, and either you can do it or not sort of thing. Whereas my background in martial arts, and there's nothing wrong with martial arts obviously, and you know, this is part, a huge part of who I am. but it was pretty, it became more and more clear to me in martial arts that there were, there's a, there are a [00:16:00] lot of people who, um, let's say, you know, maybe lie to themselves and deceive themselves in martial arts and pretend they can do things when they can't.

and you can get away with that because you never really... As you go into the octagon, let's say, this is, early days of UFC, I suppose. Unless you go and test it or get into a real fight, you never actually know whether your ax works. Whereas in parkour, you know, there and then. And that, that for me was very powerful.

and it, I love it. I fell in love with the honesty of that and the reality of it and the, the, the truth that it shows you in every training session. and I still feel that whenever I train 

Kush: As you were talking, I started thinking about, some of the same types of movement, challenges that I find, and I think people listening will resonate to this as well.

So a lot of us can be good athletes in our sports. We can be fit by many definitions of the world. we are doing our, we're climbing or [00:17:00] running or swimming, or we are simply regular at going to the gym and completing our workouts. And by, by conventional metrics of fitness, we would score well.

But I know for myself that if I see an eight-foot gaping

Chasan in front of me, I will not make that jump, right? And I think a, a, a version of me, or maybe subliminally I would be inspired, but that would seem so far out of my reach- Mm ... that it would not even It would not even strike me that this is something that, uh, that I should be a- at least willing to dare to, to bring into life.

So, so help us demystify w- what [00:18:00] can somebody who is, again, not a, a young martial arts phenom- ... or even a young child, even a young child who knows no fear- 

Dan: ... 

Kush: can an older person- 

Dan: Yeah ... 

Kush: actually dare to accomplish something like that or similar? 

Dan: Uh, well, 100%. So firstly, absolutely.

We wouldn't say start with that kind of jump. You know, you gotta remember that when I started, there was no guidance. there was no teaching, there were no classes. There was nothing like that. So you had to just find, find the founding guys, the French guys, and keep up with them, and that was it. so it, it was pretty, um, a pretty small group in the ear- in the, in the early days, and we certainly wouldn't expose new people in our classes to that, to begin with.

what we would do is train them, to be able to achieve the potential they want to achieve and take it as far as they want. So, but to give you an idea, we, you know, our classes that we run around the world, start from age one, uh, and we have people in the classes who are in their 90s. um, we run [00:19:00] entire programs called Low Impact Parkour, which are for over 60s.

so p- parkour is, because it's movement, it's a movement practice, anyone who can move in any way can do it. We have adaptive movement programs that are for, people with physical disabilities and veterans. Um, we do, things for people with special needs and, um, lots of our students have special needs in the, in the, in the kids' schools at the moment 'cause it, it really attracts kids who don't feel at home in traditional sports, competitive sports.

Um, and a lot of those kids with, um, with learning needs, things,they will gravitate towards parkour because it's very individual. So the point is, anyone can train in parkour. It doesn't... You don't n- if you don't wanna jump across a gap, you never have to jump across a gap. you could train in parkour and never leave the floor because it's just a movement discipline.

So it could be a case of just learning to move over a couple of boxes in a gym. It could be learning to, mo- you know, move over your sofa. Um, it could be a question of learning to do a, a, a role, across your carpet or across a, a bit of [00:20:00] grass. A lot of the stuff we do in low impact parkour is teaching older people how to fall well.

First of all, how to prevent falling, and then how to mitigate a fall when it happens by learning to break their fall with rolls and things like that, and, and proper catches, and it actually works. uh, you can act- absolutely train anyone in parkour Because all we're doing is saying, "What are your movement capacities now?

Where are they at?" And that could be an Olympic athlete who's 30 years old and physically awesome, or it could be an 80-year-old untrained, person who's never done any movement in their life, and now they wanna get back to being able to, to walk or something like that. Those two, we approach the same- conceptually it's the same approach, is what is your ability now, and how can we improve that ability, and how can we take it further, and how can we then move towards what your potential is?

And the potential for the two will obviously be different, but that doesn't matter because it's not competitive. So it's a case of your pot- we will just get you towards your potential. so anyone could train in parkour. the perception of it, that it's big jumps and stuff like that, again, [00:21:00] comes from the spectacle side being what, the m- social media likes, to...

Uh, and of course 'cause it's, very spectacular to watch. But in the same way, I guess another way of looking at it is think of it like this. if you saw, if you watched, you know, YouTube and you wa- and you watched car racing on YouTube, and you saw all this F1 and rally cars and, NASCAR and all that, you know, if you thought that was driving, you'd be like, "Well, I'm never doing that."

You know, "I don't, I don't wanna do that." But the reality is anyone could drive. Anyone could learn to drive. That's taking driving to a very high level in very specific circumstances, and that's the same for parkour athletes that jump across buildings. They're the elite rally car drivers. but you don't have to do rally car if you don't want to.

You can just drive to the shops. you know, and parkour is the same. So any- anyone can learn to drive, anyone can learn parkour, anyone can improve their movement skill. It's just a question of how far you wanna take it.

Kush: what I'm inferring is that one can be fit in, in many ways, but [00:22:00] still be physically limited at being able to solve those, those problems. And so can you help us understand this, almost this dichotomy where somebody you sweat because they're doing some of those things we talked about, conventional things, but still not be able to do some of these other things.

So what are some of those other things that parkour or a like activity can help us bridge? 

Dan: Yeah. So an activity like, so what parkour helps you do again, is move very holistically. So it allows you to, to do things, that are, that you won't commonly do in the gym because the gym is typically looking to isolate, and deconstruct movement and often for good reason.

'Cause you might need to deconstruct and, and fix, isolate something to fix it so they can open up more movement capabilities. There's nothing wrong with that necessarily, but that's just a tool to get you to be able to move holistically. and holistic movement should be the goal. And by that I mean being able [00:23:00] to run, to jump, to climb, to express your body fully in its environment.

and that's non-linear very, um, multi-directional, multi-planar movement, which is what the, what, what our body has evolved to do. Like, like a, like all primates, right? Um, we're evolved to be able to jump and swing and roll and catch ourselves and, and just have, just explore our, explore our space and have fun with our bodies.

it doesn't mean the isolations aren't bad or the deconstructions aren't useful, but they're a tool to get you to that. And we've, and the fitness industry forgot that. The fitness industry has gone, "Okay, the deconstruction is the goal." So it's just got stuck on this idea of isolated movement and it's forgotten that actually the point is to be able to use your body to, to solve movement problems and tasks in your environment, like climbing mountains, running through forests, rolling down hills, whatever.

Um, and that's the goal. So parkour will allow you, it will bridge the gap, it will get you back to doing that stuff. so a way I would... A, a w- a, a simple analogy again, which c- which can help people understand is to think of movement as in the same way as [00:24:00] language. In that, there are lots of levels to language, right?

And to being literate with a language. But the, the goal of a language is to have a high level of literacy so you can then use the language to do things like write poems or write novels or letters, or put a document together or write a report or whatever, but it... Or have a conversation and a debate and a dialogue.

So it's, the point of language is to enable communication at a, at a deeper, profound level, right? More complex level. but you can deconstruct language to, s- to grammar, to words, to alphabets,all the way down, right? And there's, and that's, that, that's useful to do. But if, for example, when someone was learning a language, they only ever learned the alphabet And maybe learned to put some letters together in words, but they didn't learn any grammar or any syntax, or context.

And they, so they didn't have a conversational skill with it or, or the ability to write a, a poem. Then they, their ability with the language is very limited that we would say they're probably not [00:25:00] literate. They just have the ability to copy letters and spell words. We wouldn't necessarily say that's a literate person 'cause they can't use the language.

Movement is the same. So if you're doing things like you might think they're like this, a bicep curl or a pushup is like a letter, right? and ma- and, and individual movements like that are letters. And then when you compound them, you may get a word. So maybe a burpee or an Olympic lift is maybe a word 'cause you're compounding some of the letters now.

So you're creating like a compound movement, but it's still just a word in and of itself. It's doesn't have any meaning really, 'cause it's out of context. So in order to get, to get meaning out of my, my language, I need to string those words together to create sentences, to create paragraphs, to create novels, and that's where, that's what movement really is.

So you need the letters. You need to be able to spell. You need to be able to write the words. You need to understand the, the ... but without everything else, the grammar, the syntax, the style, it is you're not literate. and the point of [00:26:00] language, the point of learning the letters is eventually to be able to write novels, not just to be able to repeat letters.

and if the, a lot of the fitness industry got stuck on the letters and the words, 

so you need to be able to spell, but you can't just limit it to the spelling. See?

Kush: great metaphor there

Dan, some of these, building blocks to language, or let's say building blocks to parkour, can you just give us a few quick examples of some of those movements that we we may have lost and- Mm ... we stand to gain if we adopt a practice like parkour because I think your, maybe your mission in a way if I, if I may speak for you for a quick second, 

It's to be able to simply move through the world better with more confidence, right? 

Dan: Sure, yeah ... 

Kush: maybe you can help us understand what just a few examples of some of those movements that parkour can unlock for us- 

Dan: that will benefit [00:27:00] us- Sure ... in our day to day? 

if you're gonna categorize parkour, if you're gonna c- think about a taxonomy of movements, which we, we do have because we have curriculums for our kids and things like that. But, but we try not to limit it too much to that 'cause movement is very complex and you can't really limit it to just a series of techniques, right?

But if you're gonna break it down into its categories, we would categorize them as the, as the locomotion patterns of human beings, which are,bipedal, so running and walking. Uh, quadrupedal, so crawling, rolling, climbing, swinging or brachiating like the great apes, jumping, uh, and vaulting.

Va- vaulting is really a form of jumping, but we give it its own category 'cause it's specialized enough. and parkour will teach you t- fundamental techniques in all of those things that you can apply in any environment. So you'll learn basically, for, for example, you'll learn how to vault obstacles very easily and quickly in your path.

So if you're running along and you come across a log in your path, you'll just be able to vault it without breaking stride. if you are, uh, running along and you come across a handrail [00:28:00] and you wanna get over it to get to the other side of the road without walking all the way around the handrail, you know, 20 meters, you just wanna get over the rail and get to the other side of the road quickly, then the vaults will help you do that very easily.

So it empowers you in that way, but then other things like jumping, your jumping skills will increase. So if you wanna jump a ditch, you know, and get from one field to another and there's a little ditch and you don't wanna go into the muddy water at the bottom, that jump will allow you to jump across, right?

climbing skills, being able to climb trees. We do a lot of stuff in nature. Just being able to climb trees, climb up things. If you need to, I don't know, you lock yourself out of your house, I've done this s- a few times. uh, you lock yourself out of your house, you need to get in. Allows you to climb up easily to a window, unlock, you know, open it, get in, whatever.

so it teaches you basic- Sort of skills that you don't really realize you're missing until you learn them, and then you're like, "Oh, wow, this has opened up a whole new load of movement that I thought wasn't possible." In the same way that earlier you said if I, if I saw an eight-foot jump, an eight-foot chasm, I would look at it and go, "I'm never gonna do that."

Y- you might think that now, but if you train in parkour for a year, you might look at that eight-foot jump and be like, "Oh yeah, [00:29:00] that's easy." So it kind of unlocks and unlocks a load of movements for us that we forget as adults and we don't use. And when you get them back, you realize "What? Why haven't I been using these?"

brachiation, another one. So in parkour we do a lot of swinging, a lot of brachiating movements, which the great apes are designed to do. Our shoulder girdle is designed for that. We're very good at it. and it's super, super healthy for us for our upper body, and our long-term, long-term health of our upper body structures.

But as an adult, like unless you do gymnastics, how often do you do that? How often do you hang from a monkey bar and swing to another monkey bar? very rare. So whereas in parkour, we train that all the time. So you, you develop a, a strong, really strong, really mobile shoulders that, you know, if you need to hang onto something or catch something and you're falling or climb something, you're gonna be able to do it.

you're not gonna have a problem 'cause it's, it's gonna be easy for you because you're used to like throwing your body through the air, just using the power of your arms on a swing. So it's gonna unlock a whole load of movements and make you realize like, actually I can do things like jump that [00:30:00] eight-foot gap.

and the only reason I thought I couldn't was 'cause I hadn't, I hadn't tried it for so long that I forgot you can do that. But actually, actually I could probably do that easily. I, I'm looking at you and knowing your background and that you're a fit, a, a fit guy and an athlete, I can tell you it wouldn't take you long before you'd be able to jump eight feet without a problem 

Kush: I, I think I catch what you're saying because you're right.

Like, there are movements that, we have denied ourselves, again, maybe since we were kids or maybe for as long as I can remember, and at some point we have just shut them out and we don't even think about... I, I don't know about jumping over railings, but just e- everyday stuff like, uh, I wouldn't even think of doing that because it's just something that it's almost like, you know, taking flight.

I'm like, "Wait a second, that's not available to me." And I think what you're saying is that, uh, something like parkour, it can unlock our imagination in a way, and we can learn how to deal with our physical world in a more [00:31:00] expansive way. So I think I can be sold to that, and I'm 48, and maybe people in my age group.

And again, not to profile people by age, but you know, now I think of people older, right? People in their 70s, and I am just bowled over that you have people in, in, in their 90s coming to you. My parents, in their mid-70s, they are not looking to jump over chairs. and I see your point that You know, their imagination has also been shunted because they have not, thought about this.

But i- if I was to go to them and say, "Hey, hey, hey, guys, guess what? There's this parkour gym that's opened up in your neighborhood, and this is why you need to make the time and check it out." what would that reasoning be? 

Dan: Yeah. So for, for older people, and, and again, it, as, you're right not to sort of, categorize 'cause, there, we s- there's two populations of age group of older people, right?

There's the, um, the active [00:32:00] aged population and the inactive aged population, right? Because I know plenty of people in their 60s and 70s, and even 80s, who are physical monsters who can, you know, outperform people half their age. So, so to say, "Oh, you're older, therefore you can't do anything," is clearly not true.

one of the guys who used to train in our gym, Steven Highland, who was 67 when he was training with... He got the world record for pull-ups, uh, in an hour, and he got that world record when he was 61. um, and he in his 60s would move around our gym better than most 20-year-olds. so the age... And I'm not, I'm not a, I'm not, I don't really think about age as...

it's such an arbitrary thing. But, if you're an inactive aged person, so like a lot of people- Sorry, if, 

Kush: if I, if I may just pause for a second. I think there's a spectrum there, right? absolutely- Huge spectrum ... there are in- there are inspiring people out there who are doing phenomenal things.

I've had a few, a, a lot of them on the show. But again, like my parents, you know, they are... And I mean, like, who, who are active, who are doing well for their [00:33:00] age. You know? Yep. They are,they walk, they run, they visit the gym. They are mobile in most, most conventional ways, and they do well compared to their peer groups.

Right. Yeah But again, uh, again, I think I'm trying to cross, I'm trying to cross that divide. People who are already active, right? 

Dan: Sure, sure. Okay. Yeah. 

Kush: and who, uh, need to be, need to understand why something like parkour can- Mm-hmm ... make this significant difference. 

Dan: Yeah. So, and again, this would apply to anyone, whether they are activated or inact- or unactivated.

but, um, i- anyway, as you get older, you are... As you get sort of 60s, 70s, 80s, right? You are gonna begin to lose a little bit of, of things like plyometric power and, and strength and mo- cam- mobility and, and flexibility too, e- especially if you're not actually regularly training them. So you're gonna lose, you're gonna...

Not lose, but your movement capacities are gonna sh- shrink slightly, right? and it's, and you'll get things like [00:34:00] stability and balance, things like that are also gonna shrink as a result. now, the one time you don't want them to shrink really is as you're getting older because you're a bit more fragile.

So falls and things like that become much more of a problem when you're older. So it's actually more important to develop really good balance, really good proprioception, really good agility, really good control, as you get older to train that because it's gonna mitigate and reduce the chance, simpler things like the chance of falls.

And it's also gonna keep you active to be able to do the stuff you wanna do, and keep you mobile and flexible to be able to solve these, um, to be able to do whatever tasks you want to do. So it's incredibly useful for older people because it be- it reminds them that they, their body, just 'cause they're older, their body can still really move.

they can still do really interesting things with their body. Plus it's a lot of fun. So it often will just simply return people to a sort of state of childhood in their mind because they're doing things they probably haven't done since they were a kid, and that's very, very empowering, that sense of play that we lose as adults.

So for a lot of older [00:35:00] people, your parents are great that they're going to the gym and that, but a lot of older people don't necessarily wanna go to gyms. They don't see themselves as people that could go to a gym. But in a parkour class where they're just being asked to move around and, and sort of play with their peers, let's say if it's a, if it's a low impact parkour class, they feel sort of no pressure to have to lift any certain amount of weight or hit a certain metric on fitness or...

They're just playing, they're just moving through their environment. that yes, they're developing, they're ticking loads of boxes, agility, flexibility, strength, spatial awareness, proprioception, coordination, balance, whatever. But they don't, they're not really thinking like that. They're just thinking, "I'm having great fun moving through my environment like I did when I was 10, and this is awesome."

and so then w- you know, they come, there's a big section of the population who really, really love that,and will come back for it, who aren't necessarily gonna think of themselves as gym goers. because the gym does have a sort of ex- can have an exclusive feel to it, um, in terms of who, who perceives themselves as the sort of person that sort of is allowed to go to a gym.

which is obviously not true [00:36:00] that anyone's allowed to, but there is definitely a, a lot of people just do not see themselves as gym people. But everyone is a, everyone likes moving their body. Everyone enjoys movement. once they're told, like, "Yeah, you c- you can do it. You can just move the way you do when you're a kid."

so it has a lot of appeal for older people in that way. 

Kush: that makes sense. I mean, sure, o- o- one has to, find some curiosity and take that first step into going to a class, and I'm, I'm guessing then there are just these, uh- These moments of, uh, confidence and it seems that, parkour is catching on amongst all populations.

I just this morning as I was researching for our, conversation, I saw this article that people in Singapore in their- Mm ... 6- 60s and 70s doing parkour. So it's not just, your organization. Sounds like they- Oh, no, no ... 

Dan: this is catching- It's worldwide. yeah

Kush: worldwide. can you give us a sense of that, Dan, on how, what is the momentum here? Because [00:37:00] again, like in my mind, I am still thinking, you know, young men jumping over buildings, but- Mm ... uh, obviously it's so much more expansive. So a- are parkour classes,uh, available to many people living in metros over the world now?

Dan: Yeah, 100%. I mean, the parkour communities worldwide are very,are pretty expansive now, and also pretty mature in terms of their, um, organization and in terms of their, coaching standards and approach to teaching and professionalism in that way. so for example, in the States, there's hundreds and hundreds of parkour organizations that often run stuff in parkour gyms and, and facilities like that.

And most of the, of the organizations worldwide that are developed will run programs for older people. Um, they might call it, for example, in the States, a lot of them, they'll call it silver parkour.

Um, we call it, we have our classes are called low impact parkour. but so there's different names, but most or- most well organized groups and communities worldwide will have accessible programs for older people. and they're normally pretty [00:38:00] popular. The Singapore one's got a lot of attention recently, so which is cool.

but yeah, parkour is, is mu- a much bigger discipline probably than most people think now. 

uh, there are a lot of people doing it. It's not just a, like, a few people around the world. and that's why it's now been, you know, they're looking at getting into the Olympics and whatever.

It's a, it's a huge, huge discipline, that, and that has, it blown up in a very short time. A very short time. There are far more people doing parkour than gymnastics, put it that way. 

Kush: I find that very encouraging i- 

I wanna hear from you whether folks who were, let's say, not naturally agile or sporty as youngsters, maybe they f- grew up and they got good at, maybe some sort of linear sports, like it could be running, it could be swimming or cycling- Sure

but were not as, agile in some of those movements as youngsters Is parkour still, a healthy option for them? Can parkour help them unlock things that they were not able to as, [00:39:00] as kids? 

Dan: parkour is what they definitely need to do in that case. um, there's no, there's no s- I mean, uh, you could debate it, I suppose, possibly.

So if you don't have that physical literacy base, it's harder to get it back as an adult.

Listen, uh, there's no point pretending it isn't. It is harder to get it back 'cause you didn't develop it when your brain was very plastic as a kid. But you can get it back. You need to work at it more. So if you are one of those people that's just a runner and you only ever run, run and that's it, and you're only good at that one motion, then you, you probably should try something like parkour just to diversify the movement which is gonna bulletproof you more.

Dan: It's gonna make you more resilient, less likely to be injured. It's probably also gonna improve your running because it's gonna increase the strength that are missing in your body that, that you might, that might take your running to the next level. and it's gonna make you more capable in other fields too.

So, um, and if you stop running at any stage, you'll be able to pick up other sports. So you ... It definitely, those people should be doing it even more so. but the key thing is actually for us, and one of our key messages is kids need [00:40:00] more physical literacy. We need to be- Helping more kids to develop natural physical literacy as they did throughout all human evolution.

It's, it's very, very recent that kids have lost this physical literacy thing. It's very recent. Um, it's to do with urbanization effectively. but we need to get kids back to that because the physical literacy rates in kids are dropping worldwide, and it's a huge problem. It's a huge problem for, for not just for those individuals, but it's a massive problem for society because o- once you lose movement capabilities, you stop moving.

And once you stop moving, you are much more likely to get secondary and tertiary ailments like heart disease, liver failure, diabetes, all, all these sort of postural problems, all these sort of things. So you're gonna be now a huge burden on the health services. and those health services are gonna, are gonna suffer and gonna have to spend more money on looking after people.

whereas if they were just naturally movers and moved more in their life 'cause they enjoyed moving, most of those problems wouldn't exist. so you, you kind of actually, it [00:41:00] hugely benefits society if you get kids to move more. You also increase neurogenesis, you make them smarter, et cetera. You make them more confident, more self-reliant, more resilient.

so that's a big part of our mission at the moment, is to get more kids moving.

Kush: You are absolutely leading me with- With this element of your mission, which I think, I think is so important. And what this made me think about is when I see little toddlers, to me they seem just this, you know, this epitome of agility and movement. The way they can crawl, sit, move, balance in different ways.

Mm-hmm. And at some point they start losing that. So what is that point, uh, then where,you know, in one's, one's growth where suddenly you are this really limber young baby, and now you are not so limber, and now you are getting locked into, patterns, habits that are gonna be limiting and shape your [00:42:00] journey?

Dan: it's a great question. there's no, like, set age, but effectively the, your brain is hardwiring, in stages for movement, and those stages kind of ramp up at different, years.

Sort of around two, three and around kind of seven, eight, and then again at kind of 12. Those are the sort of the key times where what you're doing then physically will decide a lot of the, um, neural mapping that is going on and the neurogenesis that is going on in terms of creating a, a, an intelligent mover.

So it's important. Bas- I would say if you're gonna generalize about it, then from zero to, 11, 12 A kid should be moving a lot, and they should be moving in a very play-based way. General physical literacy, so not necessarily sports and things like that. Maybe sports, but just a mix of all sports, not specializing in one sport, and just, just being outdoors and playing.

Running, jumping, climbing, fighting their friends, building hou- [00:43:00] building huts, building tree houses, going on hikes, exploring, y- whatever. Just loads and loads of that stuff. Playing tag, loads of that stuff from sort of zero to 11, 12. and then as they get into their teens, they can start specializing.

If, but if they do that period, then they're gonna have a really good hard-wired physical literacy in them, and then they'll never lose that. They'll never lose that. And it's very easy to tell as adult. We get adults come of all different ages and all different shapes and sizes to the gym, and it's quite easy when we see a new adult come in who maybe hasn't done any movement since they were a kid, it's very easy for us to tell you were a physically literate kid or not.

So a lot of the time I'll be able to say to someone, "I think you were raised in the countryside, weren't you?" If they're physically literate. And they'll be like, "Yeah, how did you know?" And it's because I can... Early in the first class, I can see that they can very quickly pick up the running, the jumping, the climbing, the crawling.

they pick it up without really being taught too much. Um, they just watch and they do. and normally kids that are [00:44:00] raised in countrysides and spend all their days in the forest and the fields, they develop really high levels of physical literacy 'cause they're running around and playing a lot.

Whereas kids that are in the cities don't do that. They've got nowhere to do it. They're not allowed to do it. They have to sit in, sit inside. They have to sit in buses. They have to sit in desks. uh, they're, they're not allowed to run. They're not allowed to kick footballs outside, whatever. So their movement is very limited.

and those adults, you can see those adults very easily. It's like you, you didn't have a physically literate childhood, and now it's gonna be harder for you to pick up movement skills. That's just the way it is. That's just how the human brain works. Doesn't mean they can't, but it is gonna be harder for them.

Um, so I wouldn't say there's a set age, but zero to 10, 11, kids should just be moving like mad. The data is very clear on, on when they should specialize if they want to be the best at a sport. There, there have been massive studies done on this. and, uh, if you want to be the best in the world at your sport, the age you should specialize is basically 15 years and six months.[00:45:00] 

If you specialize in your sport before that age, you actually reduce the chance of being world champion Which is quite interesting, right? Because most parents think- Yeah ... I should put my kid in a soccer school and have them play football from the age of three, and then they've got a chance of being a professional player.

You've actually reduced their chances by doing that. Because what they'll do is they'll peak earlier. they'll peak when they're a kid, and then they'll begin to burn out and find it harder to progress. And so by the time they're, like, 19, 20, when they should be a professional, they will have already peaked at 14 and lost interest probably and/or plateaued.

And now they won't achieve their potential. You want them to peak at around 19, 20, 21, and for that they need to be specializing at about 15. And the studies are very clear on that. on the athletes that do achieve the best, they specialize at around 15, which is quite late, right? It seems quite late.

the, the data shows you they should be training in all sports and narrowing it down as they move into their teenage years. And around 15, 16, they should pick their one sport and then just play that, if they want to [00:46:00] become an elite athlete in that sport, which I'm also not necessarily advocating for, 

Kush: I have certainly read s- these, uh, counterintuitive studies as well on how certain societies have been able to produce, um, world champions- 

Dan: Mm ... 

Kush: despite, despite not pushing them into, into a specialized sport at a very early age and giving them that, that more rounded upbringing. I want to talk a little bit about, about fear and caution that comes with the aging process.

And I came across something you wrote, Dan, that, uh, stayed with me. You said, uh, you talked about the brittle confidence that depends O- on perfect conditions. So what does brittle physical confidence look like? 

Dan: A- again, great, great question. And what [00:47:00] I mean by that is, if you only train in very limited, specialized modalities, you may become confident in those modalities.

for example, you know, if you only ever do, If you only did very limited weightlifting, let's say, like squats and deadlifts and things, so very linear patterns, sagittal plane patterns, yeah, you will build tissue strength in that, which is great. It's gonna help you perform. But if you only ever train in those things, then, the m- you'll have confidence in those things, but the minute we ask you to do something like climb a tree or jump across a gap or do a dive roll or learn a flip, you're probably gonna be very, very cautious because your brain has n- has n- done nothing like that, nothing remotely like that.

and so it seems... So your confidence will evaporate, immediately. And actually, maybe rightly so, because you've probably created bal- imbalances in your body and neglected the sort of whole body strength. You've actually probably created a body that is quite prone to injury if it does things [00:48:00] outside of the few things that you've trained it to do.

So you've made it less resilient. so and that means your, the confidence isn't gonna be there. real world confidence is built from, evidence. It's built from you doing l- lots of different things with your body that shows you, "Actually, I can handle anything. I can handle climbs. I can handle jumps.

I can handle swinging. I can handle rolls. I can handle vaults. I can handle lifting weights. Um, I can handle a fight. I can handle carrying something a long distance." and this was the origin, actually, the origin of parkour was very much like that in training. So when parkour was created in France, it wasn't about doing big flashy movements that you see on YouTube now.

That's a modern evolution of parkour. When parkour was originally founded by the, the guys in, in Paris, in the suburbs of Paris, their training was actually about can we adapt to any challenge that is put before us? 



And the idea was we're just looking to become strong individuals, physically, psychologically, mentally, morally. they're just looking to become strong [00:49:00] individuals, who are therefore useful to themselves and to their, and to their social environment, their friends, their family, et cetera, when they need to be.

So any challenge was like, "Great, let's do it." And that builds huge confidence 'cause then you know you can, you can pretty much handle anything that's thrown at you. And that, that was the original parkour ethic, uh, and that's still the parkour ethic that I train and I teach. and many groups around the world still do train and teach that.

I can see how that ethic is, Yeah, I can see how that is, uh, so powerful. I feel like this becomes a bigger problem as we age. I mean, sample of one and then, people that I speak with.

Kush: and I think you've also written that, uh, fear can be... Like, you've written a lot about fear, right? Mm-hmm. So I wanna talk a little bit about that. And you've written that fear can be informative rather than fear paralyzing you. So what do you mean by that? 

Dan: Well, we just need to understand what fear [00:50:00] is, right?

So fear is an emotion. and all of your emotions are a, a kind of biochemical, physiological response to stimuli, right? To, to something happening in your environment. So they're not like random things. They're all things that are there to tell you about your environment and how you should probably react, and a lot of them come from the survival instincts, right?

The fight or flight instincts. so there's sort of all emotions are kind of guidelines to an environment or responses to, to an environment. so they... We should always listen to them and think, what is this emotional response trying to tell me? And is it accurate?" It may be inaccurate 'cause we've sort of lost some connection with our emotions in this way as we moved away from the, kind of the world they were born in, in a very raw survival sense.

so they may be inaccurate, but we need to listen to them and think, "Well, what is it trying to tell me?" So fear, for example, is a survival mechanism, right? It's just you only feel fear when you're... Some part of your brain, your- the limbic brain, typically, will look at a situation and say, "You know what?

this is potentially bad for us." So it makes you feel [00:51:00] afraid, uh, and does all the chemical responses of that to be able to not only warn you about the risk, but to also prepare you to deal with the risk. So it'll flood your body with adrenaline and, and, um, and, cortisol and all these, these things will run through your body to speed up your responses, to, narrow your vision, to make your focus better,to bring the blood to your muscles to get you ready to fight or run or whatever.

So it's a... So it's a, it's a, it's always a guideline. It's always a sign that I need to now think what... I need to just be aware. What's it pointing me towards? and then I should... And then I can decide what to do with that information. do I want to deal with this or do I wanna run away? Or,and do I want to be afraid of this thing?

Should I be afraid of this thing, or is my fear sort of out of control? but in parkour terms, fear for us in parkour training is always a sign that you're on the right track in a way. So you're only afraid of things that- In some way, uh, in parkour, you're only afraid of things that you in some deep way you know [00:52:00] you could probably do or try.

so for example, if I take a load of beginners, so they can't- they're first class. If I take them to an incredibly hard jump, high up, between two buildings, let's say, and it's really long, and it's big drop. and I say to them, guys, we're gonna do this jump," they won't feel any fear, because they're not gonna do it.

They will look at it and be like, "There's, there's no way I'm doing that jump." So they won't feel any fear, because it's not real to them. 

Kush: It's so out of the realm of their, uh- 

Dan: 100%. Yeah. So they'll just look at it and laugh. They'll look at me and laugh and be like, "Ha, nice try." they won't feel any fear.

But if I take, if I take them to, say, low level, uh, a couple of walls that are maybe four feet apart and maybe one foot off the ground, something they could easily jump, right? and the consequences, they might fall on their butt, right? They're not gonna break a limb or anything. They might just fall on their ass if they don't make the jump.

If I ask them to stand on that wall and look at doing the jump now they will feel a little bit afraid. And tha- and that's because they know they can do [00:53:00] it. and they'll, their brain is saying to them, "Okay, you need to wake up here, because you might do this jump, so you need to get ready to do it."

So the fear is a guide that they can do that. So fear is always a sign that you can do this thing, and you might do it, and that's what... It's trying to help you get ready to do it. So if there's no fear, it means one of two things. Either it's way within your comfort zone, right? So if I look to the beginner jump, it's not gonna make me afraid either, but that's, uh, it's not gonna make me afraid, because I'm gonna be like, "Well, this is very easy," so it's well within my comfort zone.

so no fear means it's either well within your comfort zone, or it's way beyond your comfort zone. fear, you only feel fear when it's at what we call the zone of proximal development. You feel fear when you're in that zone of like, "Okay, this is a challenge to me, but I could probably do it if I try."

Then you'll feel afraid. And that's the same, I think, in all walks of life. 

Kush: Dan, that is honestly so eye-opening, and I can relate to it in a very personal level. I am [00:54:00] currently in a place called Squamish in Canada- 

Dan: Ah, 

Kush: okay ... and I'm learning, I'm learning to mountain bike, right? Amazing. I'm, um, I've been going mountain biking every day, and I think what you just said just- Just makes me sit up because there are these trails and these features that I look at, you know, they call them double blacks, and they'll have these big gaping jumps and, like, um- Mm

you know, these, features built. And I look at that, I'm like... I, I just, I, I just look at them with incredulity and I'm like, "Oh, wait a second. This is like-" 

Dan: Yeah. 

Kush: Yeah, whatever, right? Like, it's just so beyond me. But then I come across a feature on a trail that is a blue- 

Dan: Yeah ... 

Kush: a hard, a, a very technical blue, and I just look at that and I just stare.

Yeah. And I just feel, I just feel the blood draining, I feel the cortisol spiked up. Yep. And, uh, so what you are teaching us is that is positive information, and that is something that we can [00:55:00] leverage- ... in order to meet the challenge. Because the, the prior example was so out of our capability that it does not,did not do anything for us.

But in this case, if you feel fear, that means that this is something that we can actually learn and progress to. 

Dan: Do... Yeah. Not only... It means two things. It means not only that you can do it, probably, and you c- and you can therefore learn from it, and it's about the right level for you, it also means you probably should be doing that thing.

So you tend to feel fear about the things that are important to you as well, right? So people will have, people will often feel fear in life, about doing things that actually matter to them. They'll be afraid of doing it, right? Because it matters, the outcome matters to them. But therefore they should be...

That's why they should be doing it, because it's important to them. So in some way they kn- their brain knows deeply, they know deeply, "I should be doing this." So for example, a writer [00:56:00] who, you know, can't write the book, and they spend years not writing it, and they're afraid of, they're almost afraid of trying because it's important to them that they, that if they do...

It's so important to them that failure would be tough for them. So they're afraid of the idea of starting, And that, therefore they should do it. That's what they're meant to do, right? because it's, they're afraid because it's important to them. and it's the same for anything in life.

So not only does it mean you can do that thing, or roughly, you're roughly the right level. Maybe you can't do it today, but you'll be able to do it next month or whatever. So you're roughly the right level, but also probably you should do it because something in you is kind of drawn to it, and saying, "I w- I want to do that thing."

but that's what makes you trepidatious about it. Because your, again, your brain is like, "Oh, wait a minute, this, this guy, this idiot might actually make me do this. So I need to start sending the chemicals- 

Kush: Yeah. Let me, let me ask a, a further question on this. What is that line, then, between fear and- Recklessness And by [00:57:00] that what I mean is, is that like I'm a climber, right?

And there are things that I want to do that involve perhaps some level of free soloing or some level of challenge- ... which can have serious consequences. Mm-hmm. And then there are these forces, call it ego, call it peer pressure,call it some sort of expectation that we put on ourselves.

So how do we find that line where we are like, "Okay, you know what? This is, this, this fear is constructive." Mm-hmm. And, and if you go beyond that, it's just foolhardy and reckless. 

Dan: All right, that's the million dollar question, man. So everyone's always, we're all, all of us are always,trying to find that, where exactly that line is.

Every time we train, every time we move, every time we jump, every time we do what's called breaking a jump in parkour, which means you find a challenge where it's on the, on the edge of your abilities. You make the decision there and then, like, "Okay, I'm feeling the fear. Is this fear that's, that I can manage, and that is a, that I can use?

Or is this fear that's telling me, you know, I'm not, you're not ready?" [00:58:00] and the only way you can get good at that is by ex- is by engaging with the fear regularly enough, feeling the fear enough so that you begin to understand like, "Oh, wait, this is fear that's just helping me tune up and align my thinking and, and be in the zone.

So this is useful fear, so I'm gonna do the thing. or wait a minute, this fear is telling me actually I'm probably not ready to do this." But you only get good at, you only get sensitive enough to know the difference by experiencing that fear regularly. If you never experience fear in any way, you will have no, you have no way of knowing, you know, is it, is w- you have no way of, um, of actually interpreting the, what the fear is trying to tell you.

So we need to in some way be f- we need to have a, what we call an embodied practice of fear. We need to have a way of exposing ourselves to fear regularly. It doesn't mean exposing yourselves to danger or, or risk or anything. But feeling fear regularly so that we actually begin to understand what the emotion is like and how to manage it, because [00:59:00] that's what it is.

It's an emotion, and the, the more you deal with an emotion, the more you get better at, at managing it and controlling it. The r- a really good,description of fear that I heard long ago was that, um, uh, you should treat fear like a cowardly friend, in that sometimes its advice is worth listening to.

But if you let that cowardly friend make every decision for you, your life will be pretty shit, right? So it doesn't mean the cowardly friend is wrong. Sometimes the, they're gonna be right, and you should listen to them. But you wouldn't want them governing every decision, right? That's, uh, and fear is like that.

You sh- so you should always listen to it, check in with it, and then sometimes you'd be like, "Yeah, you're right. This is too much for me today." But sometimes you'll be like, no, actually, I can manage this. Thanks. I'm gonna use what you give me, but I, I can do it," and go ahead. So- But that sensitivity is, I mean, is the only way you get good at it is by experiencing it.



Kush: , do you have a couple of tips, Dan, on, building that kind of attunement practice [01:00:00] on... Because I think I, I understand what you're saying theoretically that, hey, you know, we see that fear, we evaluate it, and then we want to continue being exposed to it.

But if you have some just simple tips on, like, how do we do that on a day-to-day basis with our sport- 

Dan: ... 

Kush: which involves some adventure, some risk-taking. 

Dan: Yeah. Number one tip, is get specific about the fear. fear is an emotion, but we develop fears, we develop specific fears that use that emotion that are normally, and that we, we create a narrative and we attach the emotion to that narrative.

So, and that becomes a specific fear. So w- and if you get specific about what are you actually afraid of, then you will often be able to narrow it down to, "Okay, the thing I'm actually afraid of is X." And then you can say, "Well, how can I get better at X? Can I mitigate that? How can I remove that? How can I train for that?"

and as you do that, you will then see the, the [01:01:00] fear disappears because you're not just generally afraid, you're afraid of something specific. So for example, when, when someone's doing parkour and we, and they, they wanna do a jump, but they, they're a bit afraid of it, the, what we'll ask them is, "What are you afraid of in this jump?"

Because it's not just, "Oh, I'm afraid of the jump." It's like, "No, no, think about it. What are you specifically afraid of?" And they will often, they will always have a specific answer when they think about it. They'll be like, "Yeah, well, actually, I'm afraid of, of jumping short and banging my knees on the wall."

And you go, "Okay, so that's what you're afraid of. You're actually afraid of hurting your knees. Okay. So how can we make sure you don't sh- jump short?" "Oh, well, I could train my jump distance, I could improve my power a bit." "Okay, let's do that. Let's spend a week training your jump, see if we can improve your jump distance."

We do that, then we go back to the jump a week later, and you say, "Well, how does it feel now?" And now they'll look at it and be like, "Yeah, actually, I'm not afraid anymore, 'cause now I know I can make the distance." I would say that's the main thing is try to understand specifically what you're afraid of in each situation, and then think, "How can I improve that particular [01:02:00] thing, and/or mitigate it?"

And then go back to approaching the whole, and then probably the fear will have lessened.

Kush: I'm gonna listen to this a few times so I can, uh, I can absorb the principles and learn how to apply that next time I pick up my bike 

Dan: to go out. Yeah, right. Yeah. And I, I know how you feel. I did, I did that, I did some mountain biking in Canmore in, in Canada a couple of years ago, and it was the same.

I was with a guy who was really good, friend of mine. And the s- some of the stuff he showed me, like the, the big features, the jumps, I looked at him and was like, "That is... That's insane, you know? That's massive," and I would never do that. I just looked and was like, "There's no way I'm doing that." but the smaller trails, just following him down the smaller trails was really, like, you know, just, "Oh my God, oh my God."

Yeah. Just really trying to stay alive. and I was afraid of those moments, but again, it was 'cause I knew I could probably do it, But I, I completely relate, man. That, that stuff is crazy. I'll stick to something safe like parkour. 

Kush: Yes. Well, next [01:03:00] time, you need to bring your friend to your, uh, to your world.

Uh, 

Dan: he's coming to my world too. He's coming to my world too, so yes. 

Kush: Okay. Okay, amazing. Dan, I wanted to move on, and, you know, I wanted to pick your brain a little bit on this, which is these days there are some- movement tests that have come in work that test people or, or give people these simple tests as rough markers of physical function, right?

Some of these that people speak about are like, "Hey, can you get down onto the floor a- and stand up again without using your hands or your knees?" Or, "Can you balance on one leg?" Yeah. And there are a couple of moves like that, and I think they're generally, generally good and sound. Mm-hmm. But I, I, I wanna hear Dan's version of that because I, I, I sense that you have studied this for so long.

You can give us some... Yeah, please, help us with some ideas you have on being able to [01:04:00] evaluate. 

Dan: Uh, so to evaluate yourself generally, or to evaluate my... What, what evaluations do I use for myself? 

Kush: No, no, not for your... Sorry. what I mean is, like- General evaluation ... 

Dan: is that general 

Kush: evaluation for somebody who's, you know, honestly, it doesn't even matter what age, but let's say somebody who's middle-aged- Right

between 40 and 70, and if there are some, some physical tests which can serve as markers on like- Yeah ... "Hey, wait a second. Oh, you... If you can do these things, then you're generally doing well"- 

Dan: Yes ... 

Kush: for your age or for relative to the general population. 

Dan: Got it. Yeah. again, it... I suppose it depends, you know, it can depend on, on a lot of different factors, right, in terms of physiology and anatomy, but...

And a lot of those tests you're talking about, I think, uh, like you, I think are really good. Like, you should be able to get up and down from the ground without too much help and too much support, right? And you should be able to do that into your very old age, ideally, 'cause humans are designed to do that.

you should be able to do that. You should be able to sit on the floor for long periods of time. You should be able to sit cross-legged, et cetera, et cetera, all [01:05:00] these things. I also think generally, you know, you should be able to sprint, for example, pretty much at any age. Obviously, you'll be slower as you get older, but you should still be able to sprint, right?

if you can't sprint, there's probably some serious kind of structural problems in your knees and hips and ankles, and weaknesses that, that, again, aren't, aren't natural for human beings. Human beings are meant to be able to sprint, for their whole life. So you should be able to sprint. You should be able to pull yourself.

You should be able to do, like, one pull-up, I think. You should always be able to pull your body weight up. and I think a- again, even into old age, the, the... We're kind of meant to do, to be able to do that sort of thing. You should be able to do, pushups. You should be able to do a few pushups no matter how old you are.

I saw there was a news piece in the UK of a guy who's 98, I think, and he does 40 pushups every morning. And he still, you know, he still does them every single morning. does his squat- The, 

Kush: the one, uh, who, the one who wisecracks about making his butt look good. 

Dan: Yeah, maybe. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And that's like, that's great.

That's a good 

Kush: one. 

Dan: You should be able to do that. That's great. So I think you should be able to, pick up your grandkids sort of thing. You know, [01:06:00] you should be able to, carry the shopping home. you should be... Simple tasks like that. You should be able to do the functional tasks, basically kind of as long as you're, as long as you're alive because I think your lifespan and your health, ideally, and I think the way we're evolved, is that our lifespan and our health span are meant to be the same.

The lifespan and health span have separated because of modern living and modern medicine as well. but also mainly because of modern medicine, uh, modern lifestyles in that we've become very sedentary and inactive. So we now have a long lifespan, but our health span is relatively short and that's not, evolutionary, that's not intended from evolution's point of view, right?

you're meant to be basically active until maybe a few weeks before you die of old age. so I think, I think we can learn a lot from those older populations who are still very capable into their 90s, even, even into their 100s, who are still able to do basic tasks, still able to do gardening, still able to carry stuff, still able to make fires, still able to sit down on the floor, Uh, so I [01:07:00] think those basic things are really important, the things you referenced, but I think also more athletic things. I think we're designed to run and to jump. I think you should be able to jump even into old age. Not necessarily huge jumps, but you should be able to push yourself, lift off from the floor and land again.

you know, you should be able to hang from a bar, maybe do a pull-up. Simple functional tests. So basically think all of the foundational movement patterns that we mentioned in parkour, running, jumping, crawling, rolling, swinging, brachiating, vaulting. you should be able to do at least the foundational level of all of those, all of the time is what I'd say.

Kush: I think that's a pretty handy list of things. And, uh, I, I love how you're challenging us that it doesn't just have to be some very basic things that allow us to maybe just, tread water. or we, we can go much further than what- Sure ... we think is possible and our aspirations need to be, be higher, be loftier.

Dan, I wanna quickly talk about perhaps [01:08:00] a playbook you can guide us through for, yes, parkour has indeed expanded globally, but there are still people living in different places, and they may not have access to a parkour facility. So I would love for you to maybe help us design some really simple program for people of these couple of different age groups, right?

So just to make things a little practical. So let's start with somebody who's in their 40s Don't have a parkour gym near them, what would you have them start with? 

Dan: If they're by themselves? 

Kush: If they are by themselves, they are... Yeah, they don't have a parkour facility, but they are motivated to be able to at least learn from this, uh, discipline.

What are some things that somebody in their 40s can do? And I just wanna run that through 40s, 50s, to, to maybe [01:09:00] the 70s, and see what are a couple of things that people can do in those age brackets. 

Dan: So what I would say is probably the same, probably, I would say approach it from principles, not from, specific, techniques or tasks.

And the principle I- I 

Kush: would, I would love to actually, I would love to, love to actually maybe have you maybe just even describe a couple of drills. 

Dan: Yeah. 

Kush: So- Some, some, some basic, uh, basic, foundation drills that can be very beneficial. 

Dan: Yeah. So for example, I would say,y- find, find your, your natural environment.

Wherever you live, that's where you should train. So it could be your, your council house block, it could be your, the forest next door, whatever. could be the park. Wherever you live, that's your training environment. Go into that training environment, and look for something, look for an obstacle that presents some kind of challenge.

So for example, if there's a six-foot wall,in the council estate, and you look at that and think, "I wonder if I could get over that, but I'm not sure. Maybe I, I don't know if I can get over that. Let's see." then get over the wall. That's my, my advice is. [01:10:00] Okay, go and learn how to get over the wall.

Work it out. Find a way to get over it. Once you've got over it once, think, "Okay, how can I make that easier, um, more efficient, uh, and faster?" And do it again, and then do it again, and do it again, and do it again, until, until getting over that wall is, is no problem for you. And then go look for a different challenge, a higher wall, or, could I balance along this rail?

So a really good thing for people to start with is look for low railings or low thin objects, and there are loads of these in cities, low rails that, that, around plant beds or whatever. Find a low railing and balance along it. Just walk along it. See if you can walk the entire length, turn around, and walk back.

if you've fallen off, get back on, start again. Your task is to walk there and back, say it's 10 meters long, your task is to walk there and back without falling off. If that takes you two hours to do, it takes you two hours to do. but the proprioceptive work you will do in that two hours is massive.

Uh, your balance will hugely improve. It'll be a really good challenge. It'll be great fun. Same with getting over the wall. The two hours it takes you to learn how to get over that wall quickly and efficiently is massively [01:11:00] beneficial in terms of your, developing your strength, your endurance, your power to be able to push and climb over the wall, your grip strength, um, your confidence.

You train a lot of things just to doing that simple task. So things like getting over walls, balancing on rails, crawling. Go and find a park and see how far you can crawl on the grass before you get tired. See how many different ways you can find to crawl. find a tree, climb the tree. Climb the tree up and down.

Say, "Okay, I'm gonna climb as high as I can, and then once I reach the highest spot I can get to, I'm gonna do that 10 times." really simple tasks. You know, we call it... It's known as task-oriented training. Um, and that's the, that's the basis of parkour, is find a task or challenge, something ideally you're not 100% sure you can do, and then try and do it.

And then try and do it better, and then try and do it better and quicker. And that's basically it. and you can apply that to any environment. 

Kush: That is indeed, uh, quite true because, yeah, even if you don't have a tree you can climb on, you could find an obstacle around you, regardless of, whether you are in the countryside or in an urban thing.

And [01:12:00] I think what you're telling us is not so much that, hey, you know, do these specific drills, but use your imagination Exactly ... on , how to execute I don't know, how to execute things that look a little bit strange or, or look 

Dan: unusual? How, how, how to solve problem. Yeah, how to solve problem. And that's why parkour was born.

Parkour wasn't born from deci- it wasn't a checklist of techniques. It wasn't like we need to be able to do X, Y and Z vault, and X, Y and Z jump, and X, Y and Z flip. That was not wh- where parkour came from. It came from this. It came from the guys going out and saying, "Can we get over that? I don't know.

Let's try." and the techniques arose as a response to the environment. The techniques didn't come first. This is very important. The techniques were adaptive responses to the environment. that's the difference between parkour and something like gymnastics. Gymnastics has set techniques that you must learn and must complete.

Parkour doesn't. It has problems that you must solve, and if you create a new technique to solve that problem, great. um, [01:13:00] people will be very happy about that. it's very different from gymnastics. it's the other way. it's 180... It's diametrically opposed conceptually to gymnastics.

parkour is about pure adaptation, constant adaptation. Gymnastics is about no adaptation. So once you've learned- Yeah ... the basic movements of gymnastics, it's about perfecting those movements only. So it's, doesn't require any further adaptation. whereas parkour, every session parkour requires you to adapt, because every session is different.

Kush: One challenge I see here is, yes, there is this adaptation I feel might be needed, because most of us don't think of our environment as a playground- Yes ... as a place where we can... So do you have any guidance on how can people just be more imaginative on things that they can... Because I, you know, again, going back to toddlers, I think they will just look at something and, they wanna climb up to the sofa or try to- crawl down the stairs.

But [01:14:00] I think adults seem to lose that imagination. Yeah. So any guidance on how we can unlock that? 

Dan: Yeah. So we call it parkour vision, and you get it back when you're training in parkour. You develop it. you start to see the opportunities for movement and obstacles. But a simple, simple sort of protocols you could apply is, okay, uh, you could pick a line, for example.

You go to a, a, an environment, an urban environment, and go, "Okay, I'm gonna get from A to B. I'm gonna get from here to there in a straight line. Whatever's in my path, I'm gonna get over it. Doesn't matter what it is. So that's my task, is to get from here to there." Um, or it could be, we're gonna get from A to B without touching the ground.

Like, the off-the-ground challenges. You know, when you're a kid, the floor is lava, this sort of stuff. You can apply that as an adult. Say, "Okay, I'm gonna start on this wall, and I need to get to the other side of this little urban area without touching the ground. How can I do that? What do I... Do I need to climb?

Do I need to jump? Do I need to balance? How can I do that and get there, um, to the other side?" So you create simple, uh, environmental constraints. It's called constraints-led models of motor skill acquisition. and you basically create the constraints, um, and [01:15:00] you create a, an environmental task and individual.

It's how sports are created, actually. and you basically then, stick to those constraints to solve the problem. So one constraint could be we're not allowed to touch the ground, or we have to get there without deviating left and right. We have to go straight line to get from here to that building.

so those are constraints we apply, and then we fulfill the constraint. And that's the nature of play, actually, and that's where all sort of play and therefore, and then sports come from. 

Kush: I, I think that sounds like a good starting point. And, uh, in that line, one might en- encounter a sidewalk, encounter- Yes

a railing, or maybe even, even if it's within your house, it might involve, like, just objects in the house that... And then one can kinda layer on, uh- 

Dan: Yes ... 

Kush: uh, challenges. Like, you have to do it, like, kneeling or crawling or... Yes. 

Dan: Sky's the limit. Yeah. 

Kush: Does, does anything with this, uh, framework change with age?

So these things you described, [01:16:00] would you say somebody who's in their 40s and maybe somebody in their 80s, they should look at this the same way, or would you advise something else that might be helpful for somebody in those age brackets? 



Dan: I would say it, it depends. It might be affected by age, 'cause it, it's gonna depend on their, um, on their physical capacities, right?

Their mobility, um, their ability to move their body and to, and their strengths. And at, at 40, you're probably gonna have higher physical capacity than at 80. So at 80 it might be a case of, "Well, I'm, I'm inactive 80 year old, so maybe I need to actually develop some simple balance and some... I need to learn, relearn to squat and etc.,

to be able to... and improve my hip mobility to be able to get over this, this chair or whatever." So there might be some, there might be some regressions they need to do at that age, but generally, or the only thing... The concepts are still the same whatever age. The only thing that will change is maybe the size and the scale of the movements, and the speed.

Maybe you'll go a bit slower as you get older. Maybe you won't do as bigger jumps. Maybe you'll find a [01:17:00] way that does it without any impact, rather than when you're 40 you can take the impact, so you can just drop off a wall and take it, whereas at 80 maybe you have to climb down, because you don't want to take the impact.

So there'll be s- there'll be natural changes, and that's fine. that's totally fine. You know, no one can pretend we, we don't age and, and have to adapt as we age. that's totally normal too. So yeah, there will be some differences. but, you know, but then again, it's not necessarily age-based. You could get a 30-year-old who's got serious knee problems, and they can't take impacts, whereas a 70-year-old might be kinda happy to take the impacts if they're super strong.

so it's more down to the individual as to, like, how does your body now want to do this movement and solve this task? 

Kush: There's a natural follow-up to this question, which is, as we age, sometimes we present certain limitations which are more frequent with aging.

It could happen any of us, but let's say as we age, we get affected by, conditions such as arthritis- Mm ... or [01:18:00] maybe obesity, or it could be others. Has parkour been able to help individuals who have been suffering from limited capacities because of those conditions? 

Dan: Yeah, for sure, 'cause it will deal with the conditions.

your body's not, not random. it, um, it responds to the, the demands you place on it. and parkour will, will often help correct. They can't correct everything, but it's definitely gonna make you... For example, if you, if you're overweight and you wanna lose weight, parkour is definitely gonna help you because it's gonna build a lot of muscle.

it's gonna get you moving a lot. It's gonna work your aerobic capacities. so you are gonna lose weight. Um, you're gonna get fitter and stronger. and you're probably gonna have to change what you eat to support that training. so yeah, it will have huge effects. If you've got joint problems, it will, good parkour training will help you rehab the joints because it will get more mobility into the joints, it which, so it'll get the synovial fluid flowing around the joint which lubricates it and feeds it, so it'll help rebuild it, help strengthen it.

it doesn't mean, it might mean you, you [01:19:00] reduce the jumps and the impacts, and you work purely on the mobility elements of parkour, the crawling maybe and the, uh, the rolling and the balancing and things like this which help activate the stabilizing muscles and, and therefore protect the joint.

there's loads of ways park- parkour can kind of be applied to fix any sort of problem, 'cause it's an, 'cause it's a general movement solution. So we use it a lot with athletes of different sports to help bulletproof them and make them more resilient by opening up different movement patterns, which can prevent injuries, so, 'cause it makes them more generally resilient, more, more, have more diversity of movement.

So we use it in many, many ways to solve many problems. Yeah, it's not, it's not gonna be able to s- you know, solve ev- everything. There's nothing that can solve everything. But it's a, movement is a useful tool to help fix, uh, a lot of issues that people have. And m- more movement is normally the answer for most physical problems.

Less movement doesn't solve them. It will just make the pain go away. More movement, the right type of movement will solve most physical ailments. 

Kush: I like that nuance because the answer is not always just [01:20:00] more movement. movement fundamentally is important- Yeah ... but then the right movement is gonna be just exponentially more helpful.

Dan, people listening, if they're inspired, how can they avail of the education and the coaching that you offer? 

Dan: So you can look, uh, at parkourgenerations.com, which is a website that has links to our international branches. in London it's parkourgenerationslondon.com. We also have an, a worldwide education program.

you can find all the links to everything if you just go to parkourgenerations.com. 

But the, the, the answer is, yeah, come and train. come and get involved in a course or a workshop or an event or a class. Um, and you'll see what your body can do. 

Kush: Wonderful, Dan. We will put links to all of those in the show notes. Then last part of the conversation, what I like to call the ageless section, and I think hosting this podcast gives me this bold permission to ask people how young they are.

So may I ask, what's your age? [01:21:00] 

Dan: 51. 

Kush: Okay, wonderful. 51 years young. So how has your own movement practice changed as you have gotten older? 

Dan: Uh, I would say it's refined and become a lot more efficient and soph- and maybe sophisticated. I mean, I still, my parkour training modality is still basically the same as always, as it ever has been in terms of how I train, the principles of training.

but I'm much more effective and efficient now in the training. So I don't need to go and spend eight hours training in a day like I used to. I can, I can be much more efficient in a two-hour training block and achieve the same results just 'cause I understand training better. Um, I understand w- how to optimize that time.

So I'm way, I'd just say I'm way more efficient in the training now. and that, that kind of makes life a little bit easier. but the actual approach to training hasn't really changed too much in that I still basically go out and train parkour and find challenges and try to overcome them and push the limits in that way.

but, but yeah, just more efficient, more refined. you gain wisdom. you- [01:22:00] recovery changes a bit. I, I recover a little slower than I used to when I was 20, 30 years old. but you know, not hugely, but I notice that a bit. I recover a little bit slower. So you just factor that in, you know?

It's just, it's just about accepting the, the wisdom that comes with age and the experience and the knowledge. accepting those gifts as you maybe surrender some of the gifts that you had with youth, like the endless energy and the ability to bounce back one hour later or, So you accept that some things you let go of, but you get a whole new load of stuff that you didn't have when you were 20 years old.

So it always kind of balances out. and yeah, I'm very happy with my training and my, my physicality at the moment and my, um, uh, my, my physical state, you know. Uh, and I've, I've had a few injuries through my life 'cause I've pushed the limit physically a, a, a lot. But, um, but I haven't had too many injuries.

and they don't really bother me now. so, um, so I'm pretty happy with that, yeah. 

Kush: Dan, what does a younger parkour athlete, you work with [01:23:00] so many athletes, maybe people who come to you, maybe part of your, uh, peer group. Yeah, so what does a younger parkour athlete misunderstand about longevity? 

Dan: so well most of them don't necessarily misunderstand it, they just don't think about it.

So, like if you 

Kush: were- Oh, let me rephrase. What would you love for them to understand about longevity? 

Dan: g- that, yeah, that's, um, that's slightly different, yeah. And yeah, I think that's, and that's what we try to do, is we try to help them understand that there's no rush. That's probably the key thing, um, is everyone, everyone when they're young, they wanna become good quickly, they wanna push hard and, but y- but the thing that is good to learn when you're young is there's, don't rush it, take your time.

Build foundations first, um, and then build on those foundations as you go, and your ex- your progress will accelerate as a result, and it'll be more, more linear, and less plagued by injuries and setbacks. take your time is the, is what I would say to them. Just realize that you've got, [01:24:00] twen- don't think, "How is this training gonna affect me next month?"

Think, "If I train like this, how would it affect me in 10 years, in 20 years?" that, that's what you should be thinking. 



Kush: Dan, I, I wanna ask you this movements is so fundamental to parkour or just to life. So as we get older, what might be, let's say, three movements that we should refuse to surrender? 



Dan: I would say running And so being able to run and, and, and jump, I would say, climbing, so being able to pull yourself up obstacles.

and I would say jumping. Those three things you should always be able to do a little bit of 

Kush: Love it. Simple, important, and yeah, available to everybody if they choose to. 

Dan: Exactly. 

Kush: [01:25:00] Dan, what do you think society gets wrong about aging? 

Dan: that's a good question. we probably have a lot of strange conceptions around it these ti- these days.

thinking that it's, maybe that it's a negative thing or that, you know, you have to sort of, kinda hang on to your youth as much as possible rather than just accepting the changes as, that nature brings. but also maybe the other thing it gets wrong these days is that we think that, that sort of almost contrary to the longevity thing, that lasting for a long time is the most important thing.

which I'm not sure it is, it's, as they say, it's the, it's the life in your years, not the years in your life, right? So, it's, lasting for a super long time is, doesn't really matter. I think that's one modern society gets wrong. You have to keep, you know, stay alive no matter what.

Whereas actually it's like, well, there probably is a natural time to go. And, um, and it's more important that you live well, than how long you last, I would say. So obviously a balance of the two is ideal. But that probably is something we, modern medicine gets, maybe [01:26:00] gets a bit wrong. 

Kush: Dan, a slightly orthogonal question for you.

you've spent a lifetime working on movement, but what might be one thing outside of a movement practice that can help us age better? 

Dan: Uh, avoiding stress. So, um, having a peaceful mind,and a content, being content with your life. Um, th- that's probably as important as the movement stuff.

you know, avoiding too much negative stress. 

Kush: Do you have any principles in your own life where, that have allowed you to mitigate stress? 

Dan: definitely. Kind of a s- the stoic philosophy, so accept that there are things you can't control. Don't worry about these things at all. and just concern yourself with the things you can control, which are your thoughts and your actions, and that's it.

So circumstances, don't worry about circumstances. Don't worry about any of that stuff. You can't control it. [01:27:00] So, the, i- if you stop worrying about that, and if you stop worrying about what people think, your life will be a lot better. If you stop worrying about what people think of you, your life will definitely improve.

Kush: so true. Difficult, but, but so true. final question, Dan, I ask everybody, which is, what does being ageless mean to you? 

Dan: living in the moment. I would say living in the present moment. you know, not, don't think about numbers or, or any of that stuff. Just live in the moment. and be present.

That's ageless, I think. Being present is timeless