Sex Can Get Better With Age — What No One Tells You | Joan Price, 82

Ageless Athlete Recording - Joan Price
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[00:00:00] 

Joan: Joan, it's so great to have you on today. You have spent years talking publicly about subjects most people struggle to discuss privately.

Kush: Were you always this comfortable talking about sex? 

Joan: No. We teach what we need to learn, right? And I've learned it, and now I'm teaching it. no, I was not. It was, at... And this is my third career. I've been doing this work, talking out loud about older age sexuality, for 21 years now. I'm 82 and a half now, and boy, this is the only profession I know where the older I get, the more credibility I have.

When do you see that? But no, this was, I was a high school English teacher for 22 years, uh, then I became a, a health and fitness writer. Fits right in with the, uh, the Ageless Athlete, right? 

Kush: It does. 

Joan: And, and then at age [00:01:00] 61, I started writing about senior sex. 

Kush: And I also believe you had a time in your life where you were either instructing and/or running a dance school.

Yeah. And if that is correct, I love that because dance has been a big part of my journey as well. 

Joan: I taught aerobic dance for a number of years. I have been teaching line dancing for, oh, probably 30, 35 years. I'm still doing that. I teach twice a week. So I don't run a dance school, I just, I teach in a health club right now.

Kush: Oh, wow. That's beautiful. 

Joan: Yeah. 

Kush: Joan, I want to get us started by asking you this question. When do you think people should start paying attention to how sexuality changes with age? 

Joan: The moment they know the word. Because [00:02:00] if we don't wait until the changes happen to start learning about it, to start talking about it, to start accepting that it will happen, then the inevitable changes won't be such a blow.

Right now, we're not taught anything about what happens sexually when we age, and there are some real changes, but that doesn't mean sex is over or has to be less pleasurable. We just adapt. We learn, we adapt, we move on, we enjoy it. And sometimes I have the pleasure of talking to young people. I give a talk that I call What I Wish I'd Known About Sex and Relationships When I Was Your Age.

I love doing it because how often does a young, say, a college-age person hear someone who's over 80 talk about sex? And it's just a wonderful connection, and it really makes people think about sex over the [00:03:00] lifespan, not just this week or this weekend. 

Kush: I love that. I want to come back to that. I also wanna touch on this.

So life changes, and in many ways, we have been programmed to prepare for some changes ahead. So, for example, people prepare financially for getting older. 

Joan: Uh-huh. 

Kush: They prepare physically, right? There's so much content and education for that. But why do so few people prepare for how intimacy might change?

Joan: Well, that's a big question, and the main reason is that our society does not even accept ageless sexuality it's what I call the ick factor. Ew, wrinkly people having sex, that's disgusting. God, no, no, no, no, la, la, la, la. and so how does ... and [00:04:00] we internalize that, unfortunately. We fear getting older.

We do everything we can with our appearance so that we don't look our age. Well, I'm happy to look my age. I'm, I'm delighted, I'm overjoyed that I got this far with so many reasons why I might not have. I think we need to change that mindset. We may not be able to change society as a whole, though I'm working very hard at doing exactly that, uh, one mind at a time.

But we can change how we inside us view aging and sexuality, and view ourselves as desirable and worthy of being desired 

Kush: Joan, you are quite right that when a lot of us think about people of another generation and their sexuality, yes, there is this unconscious, uh, programmed ick factor. 

Joan: Yes. 

Kush: however, if I was to [00:05:00] turn the lens on myself, I am 48, and I like to think that I have a very healthy relationship with sex and intimacy, but what would somebody in my age group or like me be not understanding how things might change for me, and when that relationship with my own sexuality is gonna be different than it is today?



Joan: I'll be happy to get to that, but I'd like to comment first on what you just said, and to applaud you because I think the reason that you are so accepting of your body's sexuality as you age is your ex- the way you focus on your physicality. And I recommend that to people. Stay active, exercise.

whatever it is that you can do and you like to do it. The best [00:06:00] exercise, I tell them, is the one you'll do. Forget what you're told about you gotta do this, you got... Just do anything, uh, because when we are positive, we have a positive attitude about what our bodies can do, and we enjoy living in our bodies.

We love the feeling. We love it when we th- E- when we start out saying, "Oh, I'm too tired to exercise." "Okay," I say, "just do five minutes, and then if you're too tired, stop." Well, what happens in the first five minutes? You're energized. Those, wonderful pleasure hormones start taking over. The brain chemicals go, "Woo, this is good."

The body says, "I need this. I want this. Thank you very much." It's the same thing with our sexuality. We can translate that body acceptance to this kind of body acceptance. So what should you know [00:07:00] going forward? Well, I've written four books about that. Be more specific about your question and I'll be delighted to help.

Kush: Love it. And no, Joan, you're, you're so correct that,the type of sex that most of us are familiar with is of the physical kind, and that requires being comfortable with one's physicality. And I, I... And I'm sensing that- Your background with health and fitness and with dance instruction informs your- Yes

your sex education. 

Joan: Absolutely. Absolutely. 

Kush: Maybe you 

Joan: could 

Kush: comment on that. 

Joan: in fact, one of the tips I'm always giving people is when, uh, s- when our ... Well, okay. Uh, let me try to back up a little bit. one of the things that happens as we age is that blood flow rush to [00:08:00] the genitals slows down. We can't count on it, meaning that we take longer to respond with the, Can we talk frankly here? 

Kush: Absolutely. 

Joan: Okay. So, uh, the penis and the clitoris take longer to get engorged, which is necessary for the kind of responsiveness we need, uh, in order to reach orgasm. Well, one thing that speeds that blood flow up is exercise. And so I'm always telling people th- that two, two number one tips, they're equally number one.

One is exercise before sex gets the blood flow going, not just to the muscles, not just to the brain, but to the genitals. And wait until after sex to eat. Don't eat before sex because where is that blood flow going? To the digestive system. We need all that blood flow we can get. So [00:09:00] exercise first, have sex, and then eat.

Kush: Brilliant, Joan. Just a few minutes into this conversation and you're already giving us such great practical advice. 

Joan: That's my job, sir. 

Kush: Joan, staying with the theme of changes and evolution in our bodies as we change, there's a story I think we absorb that sex is wonderful when we are young, and then gradually everything gets worse.

Joan: Spoken- How- ... as a young person. 

Kush: How, yeah, exactly. How accurate is that story? 

Joan: Oh, it's wildly inaccurate. many people in their 40s and 50s, even into their 60s, are saying, "This is the best sex I've ever had." Now, is it the same sex they were having as a young person? It is not necessarily. One of the things that makes it be- I'll go [00:10:00] through a few things that make it better, if I may.

One is we know ourselves. We know what we like. We know what turns us on. We're not trying to figure out, "Oh, I wonder. I'd like to try, mm, I don't know." That's kinda part of being young, is we, we could take our sexuality anywhere. And we don't know where we're gonna end up, what we're gonna like until we try it, so it's, it's a time of exploration.

in later years it needs to also be a time of exploration. We come knowing we need certain things. Okay, then let's start with that. Beyond that, if certain things don't work, what can we do? We have the sense of exploration. We have easier communication than we did as a young person. So it is, is a much more, in a way, direct kind of getting to pleasure, because we have this self-knowledge, this knowledge of our partner if we have one, [00:11:00] this knowledge of how to talk about it, which I've gotta say a lot of older people do not know, and that's a learning process all the way through our lives.

But when things don't work the way they used to, there are some brand new things we can learn. For example, that if we are heterosexual, and I'm not assuming everyone is, but let's say we are, and we've always thought that intercourse is the real way of having sex, it may not be. Maybe it's not anymore.

The more we can expand our notion of what turns us on, what gets us aroused, what gets us to orgasm Which may not look the same at all. It may be more manual, it may be more oral. It may not be intercourse at all, or it may be that intercourse is just one part of what we might do, but not the goal. It may be incorporating [00:12:00] sex toys into sex with a partner, and I wildly promote that.

I w- I'd be happy to talk about sex toys for as long as you've got I'll stop there in case you have questions. 

Kush: Joan, getting a little bit more into the actual act of intimacy- Mm-hmm

I wanna ask you a couple of questions. So one is, what genuinely gets harder as we age? 

Joan: what gets harder is, oh, golly. Ooh, you don't want just one thing, right? Our, our bodies are always surprising us with aches, pains, injuries, illnesses, and this is true our whole lives, but as we get older, we don't even know from one day to the next what's gonna work and what's gonna hurt.

And so I actually ask people to say to their partner at the beginning of a sex date, [00:13:00] "What hurts and what works for you today?" Because that could be a whole new source of information. "Well, I'm not gonna be able to get on my knees," or, "My neck hurts, I have to stay on my back." there are all sorts of things.

also, it's being able to negotiate the needs, the changing needs, with a partner who might not be a long-term partner, might be a new partner, being able to communicate about that, being able to ask a partner, for example, "How can I pleasure you today?" And have the partner ask that back. It will probably not be one particular sex act that's gonna be m- the point of no return for both people.

Which, you know, we assumed when we thought that penetrative sex, that's w- we're leading up to penetrative sex. We do that, everybody's happy. [00:14:00] Well, that actually never worked for both people reliably. Sorry, but it never did. It's just that we kinda adapted that, all right, this is what it is, and unless someone takes time with foreplay, and I put that in, in, in finger quotes because it isn't foreplay anymore.

It may be the whole big, it may be the whole burrito is what we used to call foreplay. The stimulation with touch, with kissing, with oral. That may be what we need now more than we need penetration, or in conjunction with penetration, or sometimes one, sometimes the other. We need to be open-minded about that, and sex toys.

Kush: A- absolutely, and I think that part about [00:15:00] communication, cannot be highlighted more, that,I think, uh, people are maybe getting better about talking about what works for them and what they might want. But I think that vocabulary needs to also expand- Yes ... to talk about- Yes ... some of those things.

You, you know, there are many things that do get better with age, right? And I wanna ask you, can intimacy actually get better with age? 

Joan: Yes. Well, yes. Yes, because if we can learn to focus on our needs and a partner's needs, rather than having particular goal-oriented expectations, then an intimacy date...

And when I say that, I believe in scheduling sex. I believe in putting that on the calendar, really, because if we wait for our hormones to tell [00:16:00] us we wanna have sex, we may not have sex for weeks or months. So let's do that at least. Let's start there, and let's spend many, plenty of time. Let's, schedule more than an hour, not that we're going to be having penetrative sex for an hour.

That's not what I'm talking about. We're gonna start out cuddling, talking, nan- dance, uh, not, I'm sorry. Cuddling, talking, kissing, singing together, whatever it is that gets us connected. My partner and I like to sing '50s songs, and it's amazing how we can't remember something that we said, "Remind me of this tomorrow."

W- neither of us remembers what that was, and yet we can remember the words to songs we learned when we were 15 years old. Wow. And that just for us is sexy, that one of us can start a song and the other can finish it. Ah, that is sexy to us. I'm sorry, young [00:17:00] people, if that doesn't match with your expectations.

Try it.



Kush: just, going a little bit further into this, are there things that actually get better? What are things that we can look forward to? People listening in their, again, in their- Ah

30s, 40s, maybe 50s, because the, the narrative is, the culture narrative is, you know, yes, it's not gonna get better. physical changes are gonna happen, the ick factor you talked about. But are there some things to look forward to- Yes ... about our sex lives?

Joan: Well, if. Yes, if. Yes, we can look forward to being in our bodies, being in our wise, aging minds, connecting with a partner where we are today, if, the if is, if we do the work of accepting [00:18:00] aging, celebrating aging, instead of fearing it. That's the work we have to do. Once we get past fearing aging, and we embrace it, go, "Look at the gift of this extra day that I might not have had."



Joan: if we get into, "And look how lucky I am to be staring into this other face on a pillow that I love, that I wanna be with, that I am turned on by, that I can count to prioritize my pleasure," if we can make that part happen, it's all a celebration. 

Kush: I'm wondering if you can help us with, a couple of tips on how we can start building that appreciation practice today. 

Joan: Yeah. One thing we can do is look at where those negative attitudes came [00:19:00] from other cultures don't have these negative age, attitudes about aging.

There are cultures that embrace and respect and, listen to their elders. That's where they learn. The hearing the stories, getting the advice, listening. You know, I, I tell young people, "I've been your age, you haven't been mine." And by that I mean give me some credit Sure And listen. See what you can use of what I've learned.

I'm not telling you what to do, I'm telling you, you know, what's possible. So if we ... and I often talk to women especially who think that no one's gonna want those saggy bodies, those wrinkly, saggy bodies, especially women who are, let's say they're newly divorced or widowed, and they're getting back in the dating scene, or [00:20:00] they want to or they're afraid to, and they're wishing they could have sex but they don't think they deserve it somehow because, "Well, look at me.

Who'd want that?" And I ask them, "Well, where did you get that idea? where did that come from?" Partly from media with the it factor, partly from the way we don't talk out loud about this Partly about the way our culture teaches us to disguise aging. Yeah. I mean, I can't tell you, we're scrolling social media, "Should she wear this outfit at age 60?

How should, should she really have long hair at age 70? ew, she didn't color her hair, how much older she looks." please stop it. Just stop it. Stop it. D- you don't have to accept it. You can say no to that. You, and I'm talking to older people now, not to you [00:21:00] 'cause you're evolved. But I'm t- I mean just older people in general.

You do not have to accept that. You have let go of many beliefs you were taught that do not serve you. Let go of this one, too. Aging is fabulous. It beats dying. Well, I mean, what else, what other choice do we have? We can get older, we can die young. You know, I don't know any other way to do it. Let me know if I've missed something.

Kush: Joan, 

such a good point that you make, that, uh, that a- aging is a gift. It's a gift- Yeah ... that, uh, that we don't likely appreciate when we are just younger. 

Joan: That's right. 

Kush: , Joan, you have lived through many different versions of your own body. Has your own relationship with your body become easier with age? 

Joan: It's gotten [00:22:00] harder because I keep getting new challenges. I keep saying, "Oh, come on, I've learned this lesson already. Stop it." I've been in three very serious automobile accidents.

Um, one of them, my... I had many, many injuries. It took months to almost recover. I never fully recovered. Uh, I have an ankle prosthesis now because of that. My, ankle was crushed. My heel was shattered. and life as I knew it would never return. And yet, when the doctor said, and I w- this was just at the age of 35 or 36, the doctor said, "We can put your face together."

It was, the steering wheel smashed it. I was seat belted, of course, or I would not be talking to you today. and but the doctor said, "We can put you together, but your... we can't fully repair the [00:23:00] damage to your foot and ankle. You will be able to walk, but maybe not normally or pain-free." And I said, "I don't care about walking.

I wanna dance." And having, this isn't exactly what you asked, but I hope it, I hope it's acceptable here. having the goal, not just to walk, but to dance, that's when I started teaching aerobics, after that. Then I had... And I almost died in that accident. Then I had a second one,that, smashed the same leg and the same ankle rehabilitation was gone and had to start all over again.

And the worst-case scenario would've been amputation of the leg in that case, but fortunately we saved it. And then just, uh, just a year ago April, I was in yet [00:24:00] another, and this time my neck was broken in three places. Now, you're taking an 81-year-old woman- with osteoporosis who had three neck fractures and I lived

And I'm talking to you today and I'm teaching dance. but I keep saying to the universe, "Why do I he- have to keep learning this lesson again and again and again?" none of these were my fault But how does that matter when, so I can't really remember the original question. I got off on this tangent 

Kush: Yeah.

So you spoke about these injuries and those things, and I'm guessing these likely had a bearing on your physical performance across all spectrums.

Joan: Absolutely. [00:25:00] 

Kush: And, aging itself is such a complex process, and on top of that, you layer in these adaptations. Yeah. how have you managed to get past those things and then continue to find joy in your physical self? 



Joan: one of the things I do, and it's one of my mottos, as long as I'm here, what else can I do?

and that doesn't just mean where I am physically, but w- as long as this is my life now, what can I, w- what's possible? And so I look at where I can go rather than where I can't go as much as possible. It's always, I'm always learning this. and part of it is to ask myself, how is my body capable of pleasure right now?

That counts sexually, that counts in dance, that counts in all the things I do. How is [00:26:00] my body capable of pleasure right now? Okay, then go after that. What is my body capable of doing right now? I go after that. There are so many things that are no longer possible for me, but there are also ... I have a very full life.

I don't ever sit around going, "Well, ah, there's nothing I've left to do." No. I mean, I haven't retired. Why would I retire from a job like this? Talking about sex all day, really, what could be more fun than that? Helping people regain or maintain their sexuality, what could be more rewarding than that?

Getting people who say, "I have two left feet on the dance floor," and saying, "That's okay, I've got a whole closet full of right feet. Let me know if you need one." Or just say, you know, dispel this, "I can't do it," into a, "Oh, okay." I don't have to, I don't have to come in with that. 

Kush: You do have a terrific [00:27:00] vocation, i- indeed.

Uh, 

Joan: so- As do 

Kush: you. Thank you. let me ask you maybe a couple of, couple of things in practice, right? So what does adaptation look like in a healthy sexual life? 

Joan: Ah. It takes real communication. It takes, I think asking that question, what hurts and what works for you today, and having your partner say that back to you, and then being really cognizant of what you can...

how you can adapt to that. my neck is really hurting. I, uh, won't be able to bend over. Okay, that is gonna eliminate some things that we like to do. Just that. all right. Or I'll only be able to do this for a few minutes, and then we'll switch. I need to know that'll be okay with you. Yeah, that's good.

Thanks. [00:28:00] Thank you. Thank you is the right answer to whatever information your partner divulges to you about what hurts and what works, and just accepting that. And my partner and I are always saying to each other, "How old are we? We're so old." And we say that in unison, "We're so old." And then we laugh about it.

And that's something I haven't really talked about, is keeping a sense of humor in the relationship, because if you can't laugh about sex at 80 what can you laugh about? But not laughing at someone. Laughing from the inside, laughing with someone. 

I feel that in order to, to love somebody else, one has to be open, and to be open one has to also have a healthy relationship with one's own body, one's own gifts, and one's own identity.

Kush: But then, [00:29:00] like you said, you know, when we get older, our bodies change, 

Are there a couple of things, tips, guides you can tell us on how can we continue even loving ourselves as we change? 

Joan: Well, we just don't accept society's norms that wrinkles are unattractive.

I think wrinkles are fascinating. When, I know that y- your podcast listeners won't see this, but I don't know if you can on, um, on YouTube, but I find that just if I turn my wrist like this, the wrinkle patterns on my arm change. They go from stripes to diamonds and back again. I don't know if you can see that.

But I love that. I think, "Well, this is endlessly fascinating." What else is endlessly fascinating? any time I bump anything, I get a big purple bruise. If I bump it hard, I get cut. Well, isn't that interesting? these are all badges of longevity as I see them. [00:30:00] And if we could just, "Okay, so oh boy, I'm Technicolor today.

Look at my thigh. I have all of these bruises. Isn't this pretty?" Instead of saying, "I don't want you to see my thigh. I'm covered with bruises." We just need to have a different mindset 

Kush: I love it, Joan. Yes. 

Joan: I wanna tell you a story from- 

Kush: Yes ... 

Joan: when I was in my 60s and I was with the great love of my life, Robert, who was the reason I started doing this work, uh, because sex was so fabulous with him.

I lost him to cancer, unfortunately, in 2008. But when we were together, we were also very playful, and one of the routines we had in the morning is that he would get up early, and when I rang a bell, he would bring me a cup of coffee. Now we ring a bell for sex, but that's a different, that's a whole different routine.

so I would ring the bell when I was ready for my coffee. He would bring in the coffee. [00:31:00] I would pull down the covers and flash him my breasts, and he would go, "Oh, cover those up. I can't see. I can't see." As if my breasts were blindingly glorious and were ... and he couldn't even see past the, the blinding glory.

And, at one point, I wrote about that, and a whole bunch of comments, from men I might add, were saying, "Oh, he was, he was just He didn't really believe that. Who sees old breasts as, as, as blindingly beautiful? Come on, he really was secretly wishing he was with someone young." No, he wasn't. No, he wasn't.

come on. You're only damaging yourself with that view of sexuality, that older bodies are so unattractive we can't help but wish we were with someone else. How is that going to serve you later? You're just [00:32:00] damaging your s- future with that attitude. 

Kush: Joan, I'm familiar with your story with Robert.

Joan: Thank you. 

Kush: And one, one, one of the things I wanted to ask you on that, so was there a point When desire started returning for you, because you went through this dark period of grief. 

Joan: Mm. After I lost Robert, you're talking about? 

Kush: Correct.

Yes. Yes. So after you lost Robert, was that, was there a point, and it becomes- Yeah ... difficult. 

Joan: I wrote a whole book on that, Sex After Grief: Navigating Your Sexuality After Losing Your Beloved. And this book has my own grief journey, i- with exactly what you're talking about, how I came back to sexuality with lots of fits and starts and, and retreating and starting [00:33:00] again, and trying different things that didn't work, and finally finding what did.

I also have other readers' stories. I have, advice from grief counselors. Mm. It's a really full book, and I, I'm, you know, self-serving to recommend it, but I do. 

Kush: Um, but how I came back igniting my desire again was, was many different steps, probably more than we can get into now, but trying different things. grief counselors helped a lot, especially one who's, who- I said, "I am so numb from grief.

Joan: I'm a sex educator. I know that I need to be nurturing my sexuality during this time without a partner, with my only ha- with my own hands and my own vibrators. But I just don't even think it would work. I'm so numb." And she said, "If you have a good vibrator, it will work." [00:34:00] And I went, "Oh, I teach that.

I know that. Okay. Let me try that." And it worked. Yes, it worked. So self-pleasuring, taking the time, getting to know your new body, because nothing will ever be the same as it was. Nothing will. Your daily life isn't. Nothing. 

Kush: the act of pleasure, the act of intimacy, can that actually accelerate our healing process from a loss as devastating as what you went through?

Joan: It can give us relief from it. I don't know that we can accelerate it. You know, we heal on our own timeline, and we don't know what that is until it's over, or it's never over, but until we feel a sense of completion. But it can give us relief. It can give us a sense, "Oh, I [00:35:00] am capable of pleasure again. Oh, I actually, my body does work again."

It may be even that we cry afterwards the first time or more because we think, "What, what I really wanted was to be with this person who's dead. That's what I want." so there, there may be tears, but the more we do it, the more we pleasure ourselves, the more we try to find ways to get back in our body that gives us some relief.

For me, it was self-pleasuring. For me, it was dancing. You know, I met him on the dance floor. I still could see him on the dance floor. I could dance with him even though he'd been gone. And, um, you know, we, we need to find ways, what... As long as I'm here, what else we can do, what else can we do, that same question 

Kush: In midlife, Joan, there are many couples, [00:36:00] you know, who love each other, but the pressures of daily life have led them to drift apart from each other.

What would you want them to understand? 

Joan: We need to prioritize a sexual connection, or it can fall away. Yes. So we need to prioritize it, and this is something that should start happening before it's necessary. You know, wherever you are, listener, it- if you are in a relationship, and I'm not assuming everyone is, but if you are, talk to your partner about what can we put in place now that will serve us when the automatic biological imperative to have sex frequently has receded?

How can we agree to schedule sex dates, to carve time in a busy schedule? And that's really important at whatever [00:37:00] age, because we're bu- 

Kush: What, what's the, what's the first thing... Sorry, not to cut you off, but what's the- That's all right ... what's the very, what's the very first thing you would have this couple do?

The very first thing. 

Joan: Talk about it. Normalize talking about it I mean, we- that's the start. You c- y- you gotta learn that sooner or later. Nothing works until we can talk about it. 

Kush: And can curiosity come back after a long absence? 

Joan: Yes. If we nurture it. You know, it's, it- so much of what you're asking is the mindset, and just as, let's say, in athletic training, you don't wanna just do the same thing day after day after day.

You need to pep it up or you don't wanna show up anymore. So you try something new, and you're always teaching new things to try, new things to consider, and I really respect that about you. your niche is very important, and it really [00:38:00] is in sync with my niche because there's m- so many of the same things that you teach, and you could probably even tell me some more of those about how to maintain yourself as an athlete as you age, are applicable to this realm also.

Maybe you- 

Kush: Joan, you're very kind. I, I- ... could give us some tips in that ... you, you actually teach. I'm just the, uh, I'm just the messenger here. You know, data tells us that, sex is actually declining in the Western world.

So someone listening might say that sex isn't, you know, it ju- it's not a big priority for me right now, for me anymore. is that a problem? 

Joan: It is a big problem when it's not a priority for you, but it is for your partner. If- 

Kush: What if you are unpartnered? What if you're unpartnered? 

Joan: Well, if you decide you're not interested in sex anymore, that's okay.

You know, I'm not gonna tell you what you have to feel, but I encourage you to look at [00:39:00] is there something that would get you interested in sex again? And if you said, "Yeah, if I met the perfect partner," ah, but then you need to prepare. Keep your body running in good working order so that when you meet another partner, and it's never too late, it's never too late, then you, your body won't have closed down because it's like, in a way, it's like your muscles.

Use it or lose it. 

Kush: Joan, if somebody listening is, again, let's say 40, and they're healthy today, their relationship is good, their, sex is fine, what would you tell them now that might make the next 40 years better? 

Joan: practice communicating clearly and lovingly about your needs and desires at that moment.

You may feel, well, you know, I want, I want the, exactly what we're doing. [00:40:00] Well, then verbalize that. Verbalize what you love about it. Verbalize any way you'd like to tweak it. Verbalize anything you'd like to introduce to what you're doing now. and the easier it gets to talk about sex in a very personal, loving, and helpful way, the better it's gonna go for you 

Kush: this practice of communication, the early we start it, even- Yes

even if today we feel we don't need it, but if you start building that practice, it's- 

Joan: Yes ... 

Kush: it's only gonna get... It's only gonna make life easier when we are suddenly two or three decades into the future we don't have that muscle developed. And then it- Yeah ... it becomes harder to start that, that kind of communication.

Joan, you've been doing this work for so long now. What still surprises you about people? 

Joan: Everything. The- I have heard so many [00:41:00] hundreds and hundreds of stories from people, and everyone has something new. I write an advice column Been doing that for, what, 15 year, 10, 11.

I've lost track of everything. A long time. I've done many of these columns, and yes, many of the questions are repetitive because there's certain things that bother people, and they're gonna write to me, uh, even if they didn't read what I've already written about it. But there's always some difference in the stories, and sometimes I get totally surprised.



Kush: Um, Joan, on that note, what are people still ashamed to ask you? 

Joan: They're, mm, they carry their upbringing with them often.

The religious t- religious restraints, pa- parental restraints, thinking that if they're prioritizing [00:42:00] sex, that there's something superficial about them. For example, "My marriage is absolutely great. I couldn't ask for anyone better. We're best friends, but the sex isn't happening, or doesn't satisfy me anymore, or hurts, or I hate it, but that's not reason enough to stir anything up, right?"

yeah. Yeah, it is. Yeah. We deserve sexual pleasure throughout our life 

Kush: Joan, if you had to distill everything you've learned into one rule for staying sexually alive across decades, what would it be? 

Joan: I was worried you'd ask me that. I'm so wordy about it. Okay. Approach sex with an open mind, a sense of adventure, [00:43:00] a yearn to learn, and a sense of humor

Kush: You've given us, uh, multiple things, but I honestly, the one I love the most is the last one. That sense of humor. If we continue laughing, I think we continue living life. Uh, last part of the conversation, which I like to call the ageless session. At 82, what are you still learning about yourself, Joan? 

Joan: I learn more about myself every day.

I'm just,that's one, th- that's the course I'm taking is Joan Price. course? I'm taking a course, yes, in Joan Price. Uh, because I, I'm asking myself all the time, you know, what, what can I learn about this?

Well, how can I make this easier? keeping,keeping learning open, m- giving our brains a workout, giving our hearts a workout, [00:44:00] as well as giving our bodies a workout, that's all very important. I'm sure you know that. And that can all apply to sex also. 

Kush: Joan, what are you still trying to get better at?

Joan: Acceptance is always something because I'm always, "Well, I wish, I wish my neck didn't hurt so much right now. I wish I could point my foot." I'll never point my foot again. Okay. I haven't pointed my foot since I was 35, so, I'll say in my dance class, "Point your foot." And I'll, I'll pr- I'll do what I think is pointing my right foot.

It doesn't point because of the ankle. and then I'll say, "Oh, don't look at mine, look at hers," and I'll point to someone else. So y- you know, that's part of the adaptation is who I am in my mind is main- maybe not the me that I portray. I think I'm pointing my foot. S- this is kind of a long-winded way of saying we don't have to [00:45:00] see ourselves as deficient, but we do need to accept the things that have changed, and we can accept the things that have changed and still see ourselves as wholly functioning, always learning, wonderful human beings 

Kush: Joan, what are you more at peace with?

Joan: Being old. I love being old. I love bragging about how old I am. I, you know, I love everything about being alive and alert. I love that my mind is still functioning as well as it is. Yeah, I forget things a lot. Sometimes I can't find the word that I want, and I love words. I depend on words. I l- make my living with my words.

But I am so grateful for the way my body does work, the way my mind does work. There's the love in my life. I got married last month. [00:46:00] 

Kush: Oh, congratulations. 

Joan: Thank you. 

Kush: Wow. 

Joan: I know. Who knew this could happen? So I'm always surprising myselves with, myself with the changes in my life, and the more I can accept those changes and go forward with, spring in my step and in my heart and in my mind, then the better off I'll be.

Kush: That is badass, Joan. What does society get wrong about aging? 

Joan: Everything. Next question. I mean, I, yeah, society doesn't know anything about aging. Sure. We, we can just say no to that. We need to learn about aging from the folks that know about aging, and there are plenty of folks who know about aging.

Facebook is not one of them 

Kush: Joan, last question that I ask everybody, which is what does being ageless mean to you? 

Joan: Being [00:47:00] ageless means not being limited by our age. It doesn't mean rejecting our age, it means just not being limited by it